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American Morning
Polls Now Open in West Virginia; Making Gasoline from Coal: Is it Really Viable?; Female Voters Stay Loyal to Hillary; Fierce Fighting Spreads in Lebanon as Hezbollah Tries to Shift Balance of Power
Aired May 13, 2008 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: McGovern writes, "After today's vote in West Virginia, the two candidates should agree to make joint visits to the sites of the five remaining primaries. During these visits, Senators Clinton and Obama should agree not to criticize each other. They would simply say what each would do if elected president."
He thinks that this could heal any kind of growing rift in the party, put it back together, set the stage for a good convention. Would you agree with him?
TERRY MCAULIFFE, FMR. CHAIRMAN, DNC: Yes, and George called me on Saturday, and talked to me about this. I said, great, terrific, George. I think actually George feels bad he got in the middle of this, didn't realize some of the issues, how close the popular vote is.
I think my good friend Tom Daschle from South Dakota gave him a lot of information.
ROBERTS: Right.
MCAULIFFE: And we were able to give him some other information. But whatever, anything we could do to get to this process to keep people together, we will be unified, John, after June 3rd.
ROBERTS: All right.
MCAULIFFE: But listen, we've got seven million eligible voters to vote. We got three weeks to go. Hillary is on a roll. What does it tell you that the presumed front-runner, the nominee, as some TV pundits have said, can't win two very critical states in the fall election? Hillary Clinton is going to win by double-digits tonight.
ROBERTS: Seems to be no contest in what's going to happen today, but we'll see going forward. Terry, it's always good to talk to you.
MCAULIFFE: All right. All right.
ROBERTS: Thanks for coming in this morning.
MCAULIFFE: Thanks, John.
ROBERTS: Good luck today.
MCAULIFFE: Give money.
ROBERTS: No. No.
(CROSSTALK)
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: John, this is --
MCAULIFFE: HillaryClinton.com. HillaryClinton.com.
PHILLIPS: OK, Terry, this is how Hillary Clinton stays in the race.
ROBERTS: All right. Thanks.
MCAULIFFE: All right.
PHILLIPS: Terry will hit up anybody for cash.
MCAULIFFE: You bet.
PHILLIPS: Even reporters. You have no shame, Terry.
MCAULIFFE: The worst they could say is no. I wouldn't have had a date in high school if I took no for an answer.
ROBERTS: Well, Terry, you gave your appeal. But I'm saying no. No more.
MCAULIFFE: All right. Fair enough.
ROBERTS: See you again soon.
MCAULIFFE: Take care.
PHILLIPS: Oh, my goodness.
Everyone including Barack Obama expects Hillary Clinton to win West Virginia and win big. In fact, even Obama is looking ahead. He's not campaigning in West Virginia or even against Hillary Clinton.
Suzanne Malveaux, who we will not hit up for money, live with the Obama campaign in Louisville to tell us about the strategy. Terry McAuliffe will try anything, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: He's shameless. I know Terry.
PHILLIPS: The inside scoop.
MALVEAUX: Barack Obama yesterday said that West Virginia was going to Hillary Clinton. He also said this state as well as Kentucky going to her next Tuesday. Aides acknowledging that, but they say that what's going to happen here, he's going to compete for the remaining contests, the six remaining contests, but he's also going to be moving beyond. They look at the math. They look at the four superdelegates that were gained yesterday, and they are definitely turning, Kyra, into general election mode.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next president of the United States!
MALVEAUX (voice-over): Walks like a nominee, talks like a nominee.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As your commander in chief.
MALVEAUX: Must be a nominee? Camp Obama won't declare it publicly. Their new strategy is obvious, leave Hillary Clinton behind, focus on John McCain.
OBAMA: I have great respect for John McCain's service to this country.
MALVEAUX: In Charleston, West Virginia, Barack Obama went after McCain's greatest strength, his status as a champion of veterans.
OBAMA: There is no reason we shouldn't pass the 21st century GI Bill. John McCain is one of the few senators of either party who opposed this bill because he thinks it's too generous. He thinks it's too generous. Now, I could not disagree with him more.
MALVEAUX: Obama is highlighting his family's military history to counter McCain's war hero status.
OBAMA: I can still remember the day that we laid my grandfather to rest. We watched as the folded flag was handed to my grandmother.
MALVEAUX: Also, national security.
OBAMA: Absolutely. That's going to be a priority.
MALVEAUX: Appealing to independent voters, the environment.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to deal with the central facts of rising temperatures.
MALVEAUX: McCain laid out his plan to hold big polluters like India and China accountable, so Obama accused McCain of long neglecting the issue. Obama will now start to campaign in states critical to the general election, Michigan and Florida, ignored for the past nine months for violating party rules.
Over the next several weeks, Obama will hit the remaining primary states. Kentucky, South Dakota and Oregon, as well as key swing states like Missouri, where President Bush won in 2000 and 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX: And Kyra, also his message is changing dramatically. Gone are all the criticisms of Hillary Clinton. Not a word yesterday. Instead, he was talking about how she was a smart, capable opponent to all of his supporters.
He was obviously saying that the party would reunite or unite around the person who would ultimately be chosen. He is clearly trying to do what he feels is necessary, and that is at this point to win over, to woo, the Clinton supporters -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Suzanne Malveaux live for us there out of Louisville. Thanks, Suzanne.
And after today, there are five contests left. Next Tuesday, it's Kentucky and Oregon with a total of 103 delegates. Oregon is the mail-in vote, by the way, which is already under way.
And on June 1st, it's Puerto Rico with 55 delegates then on to June 3rd. The final two primaries, Montana and South Dakota, with 31 delegates total.
ROBERTS: We should point out, too, that we wouldn't give money to any political campaign.
PHILLIPS: That's right. Not just Terry McAuliffe.
ROBERTS: Not just Terry.
PHILLIPS: It's everyone.
ROBERTS: Everybody. Just want to make that clear.
Five minutes after the hour. Breaking news from the earthquake in China to tell you about. Dramatic new numbers coming in this morning. At least 12,000 men and women and children are dead.
The scope of the devastation is making any rescue or relief effort extremely difficult. CNN's John Vause is near the epicenter in Hui Shi (ph) Township China. He left us this report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The full scale of the damage on this earthquake, it's just staggering, row after row of houses which have not just collapsed but have been completely smashed apart. And what we have seen for hundreds of miles, tens of thousands of people who have gathered on the side of the road, in parks, under truck haulers (ph), under tents, whatever they can get, large sheets of plastic to protect themselves from this miserable drizzle which has been falling steadily throughout the day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Thousands of soldiers are carrying medical supplies on foot because roads in the area are blocked with rocks and debris. It's impossible to get vehicles through. Rescuers are only now beginning to reach the epicenter of the quake in central China.
We're also following breaking news in Florida this morning. Wildfires have closed all 18 schools in the town of Palm Bay. That's just south of Melbourne. The town is sending assessment teams out this morning to survey the damage that's been done to homes.
Live pictures that you can see this morning from Palm Bay about 60 miles southeast of Orlando. Police say that they think an arsonist or a group of arsonists set as many as nine fires. The drought and high winds pushing flames into neighborhoods and highways. Fifty homes and thousands of acres have been burned. A 34-mile section of I-95 remains closed in Brevard County this morning.
PHILLIPS: Well, the price of gas reaching a new high for the seventh straight day, now at $3.73 a gallon. According to AAA, it's up more than a penny in the last day.
And today, Washington is making plans to do something about it. Democrats in the House and Senate want a windfall tax on oil companies. Republicans want to increase drilling in Alaska. Well, both sides want to temporarily stop adding to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve until prices actually fall.
Then President Bush, he is going to be discussing the impact of high oil prices on the U.S. and world economies when he meets with Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah later this week. The president is expected to say demand for oil is just too high compared to the supply, and the two leaders, well, they last talked about high oil prices back in January -- John.
ROBERTS: With $4 a gallon gas not far off on the horizon, there are new calls for alternative sources of energy. One man says that he has found the answer in something that the country has been using for years. In fact, we have huge supplies of it, coal.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick shows us how this man is turning a lump of carbon into gasoline for your car.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Albert Calderon knows everything there is to know about coal.
ALBERT CALDERON, INVENTOR: Forty percent of this is gas right now by weight.
FEYERICK: Right.
CALDERON: And that's the rich gas.
FEYERICK: For the last 30 years, he has been working on a process to safely turn coal to gas that can then be converted to clean methanol or gasoline.
CALDERON: From one ton of coal, you will get 122 gallons of methanol and 1.34 megawatts of power. FEYERICK: Coal already produces more than half the country's electricity, and Calderon is convinced he has found the missing link.
FEYERICK (on camera): Is it an overstatement to say that this could possibly solve America's dependence on oil?
CALDERON: That I wouldn't say only possible, I would say probable.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Traditional plants burn coal. Calderon's technology bakes it, dividing the coal into four components, including rich gas used for gasoline and lean gas used for electricity.
CALDERON: The objective is to take coal and maximize the components of the coal.
FEYERICK: Several big companies have looked at Calderon's technology but so far none have picked it up. As with all coal, the Department of Energy says a key issue is what happens to the carbon dioxide or dangerous greenhouse gases created during the process.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You would need to know that you could capture the carbon and sequester it safely on a long term basis, and know that it would stay there under the ground. That's what's keeping coal from going forward.
FEYERICK: And one expert says there are better ways to reduce America's reliance on imported oil.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Natural gas, which is a much less carbon intensive fuel, will start to replace some of the coal used in electricity.
FEYERICK: Even if Calderon's vision of coal-based gasoline comes to fruition, filling your tank with it remains some 20 years down the road. Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Bowling Green, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Albert was given $13.2 million from Congress to build a larger prototype. He spent $7 million of his own money as well. But it's running out and he says he's going to have to scrap the project if it's not picked up soon.
PHILLIPS: Coming up, Ali Velshi with more. Making gasoline from coal and how viable it really is.
And one key group of Hillary Clinton supporters is standing by their woman. We're going to tell you why female voters aren't giving up just yet. That's coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: We're going to be talking about this all morning, making gasoline out of coal. Ali Velshi.
ROBERTS: You brought gifts.
PHILLIPS: That's right.
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: OK, class, I've given you all your lump of coal.
PHILLIPS: We're all going to do experiments now, like we did in the 11th grade. Set it on fire.
VELSHI: This is just plain old coal and it is fuel. It's a fuel source, and this is part of the issue that we've been talking about. Deborah Feyerick, we're just talking in the story, about a guy who has decided he's got a way to make gasoline out of coal.
It's a fairly sophisticated process. It's been around since -- probably you just can't see that very well, right? Let me try -- there we go. A little better? All right.
All right. Here's a lump of coal. Here's how it works. You take coal and you make it into gasoline. How do you do that? Well, you make it into a waxy substance that's a lot like oil, and then you refine that into a gasoline.
Now, the advantage of this is that if you get gasoline from coal, it reduces the reliance that we have on crude oil. It is a cleaner burning fuel in the end. Now, I get into a lot of trouble when I say this because the blogs go nuts on this.
I didn't say coal was clean. I said that the fuel that is derived from coal happens to be a very clean-burning fuel. What happens prior to when it becomes gasoline can be very dirty. Coals --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: You got to make it dirty, right, in order --
VELSHI: You've got to make -- well, but you got to -- anything do you with coal is dirty to start with because there is CO2 emissions. Now, the companies that do this have technologies and have to develop further technologies to contain those emissions that you can do something with them and that doesn't just go into the environment. But if you can answer that part of the problem, you then have a clean-burning fuel that is not coming from crude oil. So that's not a bad thing.
PHILLIPS: And you don't have to add anything to it then when you would --
VELSHI: Not for the use of -- for a car you put --
PHILLIPS: How about jets?
VELSHI: For jets it's a little bit different because the end result is so pure that, in fact, it doesn't provide the necessary...
PHILLIPS: You got to make it dirty again. VELSHI: ... lubricants or dirt necessary to fly a jet.
ROBERTS: The lubes are dry.
VELSHI: I think that's what it is. There's something about it that doesn't make it efficient for jets, but they figured out how to do that. So South African Airways can fly on this. The U.S. military has certified most of its jets not fully all of them, but certified most of them.
But if this were at gas stations like when you go to South Africa, you just fill up with gasoline from coal. It operates the same way. There's no modifications to your car.
ROBERTS: So where do you get coal in New York?
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: I had to send away.
PHILLIPS: It was from his Christmas stockings for the last five years.
VELSHI: I had to send away (INAUDIBLE) for my lump of coal. That's right. Yes, this is my Christmas stocking collection. Give me my coal back. I need this for Christmas.
PHILLIPS: Wait, this might be worth money, though.
VELSHI: It certainly will.
PHILLIPS: I'm going to invest in this.
VELSHI: Remember that empty barrel of oil I had? Maybe I should have put oil in it.
ROBERTS: All right.
VELSHI: Don't even think about touching my coal.
PHILLIPS: Goodbye, Ali.
ROBERTS: Ali, thanks very much.
Fourteen minutes after the hour now. Fierce fighting spreads deeper into Lebanon as Hezbollah tries to shift the balance of power there. Our Christiane Amanpour joins us with insight into what's fueling the violence.
And wildfires burning out of control in Florida. The gusty winds not making it easy for firefighters. CNN's Rob Marciano on the ground, and we'll be talking with him live next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: You're looking at live pictures from our affiliate WESH. Live pictures over Brevard County, Florida, where 3,500 acres have burned. Estimation of 70 homes damaged or destroyed. Sun coming up now.
This is not the only fire burning in this state. Eighty-two fires in all, 14 counties affected and 16,000 acres have been scorched with this event alone.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Rob Marciano live from Palm Bay, Florida, where most of those homes have been damaged or destroyed. There is still one smoldering behind me in this neighborhood. It is a very spotty scene, a difficult fire to contain because it's been jumping for the past couple days.
So try to get a handle on it today because the winds should be a little bit lighter, but all in all it's been a frustrating battle for firefighters here. They're saying it's still out of control. There's still zero containment with this blaze, and they're in a structure protection mode just trying to not lose any more homes to this fire as it continues to burn across Brevard County.
What are they up against as far the fire and weather is concerned? Well, yesterday was extreme fire danger. That is the highest category put out by the Storms Prediction Center, and today is a critical fire day event.
Here it is on the fire weather map. We have very low levels of humidity. That's probably the main concern. Winds shouldn't be as gusty as yesterday, but they will begin to blow as we go on through the day. Close to the shoreline, they'll be a little bit cooler with higher levels of humidity. But here, likely still dry and warm winds today.
Where have we seen the rain up across the northeast? Boy, you guys got hammered yesterday. We take some of that down here, but no such luck. North Beach, Maryland, the winner at seven inches of rainfall. We do have a severe weather threat today, some thunderstorms in St. Louis, currently severe thunderstorm warning there.
We might see isolated tornadoes across the plains today as our severe weather season continues. Fire season just getting under way and the rainy season, John and Kyra, usually doesn't get going here until about June 1, so no rain in the forecast in central Florida. Back up to you.
ROBERTS: Wow. They desperately need it, too. Rob, thanks very much.
Coming up on 19 minutes after the hour. Despite calls for Hillary Clinton to drop out of the race, some of her female supporters say they don't want the dream to end. We'll tell you why it means so much to them, coming up.
PHILLIPS: And breaking news down in West Virginia. John King at the magic wall to show us what today's vote tells about which party ends up in the White House. That's straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: As it grows more unlikely that Hillary Clinton will win the Democratic nomination, her core group of supporters is still behind her, encouraging her to keep fighting. Our Carol Costello looks at why female voters are sticking with her and what her historic candidacy means to them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hillary Clinton's candidacy has always been about more than just a run for president. Her most passionate supporters say the senator's campaign has been an emotional journey, the culmination of a dream.
SUSIE WILSON, CLINTON SUPPORTER: I'm 78 years old. The chance of my voting for another woman are slim, indeed. And so, this is my one chance.
COSTELLO: Susie (ph) Wilson actively campaigns for Clinton and will be crushed if her candidate bows out now before all the primary voting is over.
WILSON: For 200 years, men have led our country, and to have a woman have that position I think would send an enormous message of hope and possibility to women all over the world.
COSTELLO: Feminist scholars say Hillary Clinton is acutely aware of how important her candidacy is for those who fought sexism. They say that's part of the reason Clinton won't quit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she knows that she is carrying the mantle for a lot of those women, and that that is something that she carries for those women and that she is a pioneer.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do you know how difficult it is for women to stand up and say, we are the best at anything? For us to say, to claim our identity and our future, that we deserve to have the highest position in the world.
COSTELLO: And women, like Susie Wilson, aren't giving up hope.
WILSON: I'm a volunteer with Hillary Clinton's campaign.
COSTELLO: Even though things may now look bleak.
COSTELLO (on camera): Her most ardent backers say the only way that Clinton can keep that hope alive is if she bows out on her own terms. If they perceive she's being pushed out, they may never forgive the Democratic Party. Carol Costello, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: And with the polls now open in West Virginia, a state that Clinton is expected to win big, those loyal supporters may get some more ammunition to keep on fighting.
PHILLIPS: Quick check now of this morning's "Quick Vote" question. Should military members who served three years on active duty be given a full ride for college?
Right now, 83 percent of you say yes, 17 percent say no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/am. We're going to tally your votes throughout the morning.
You can also send us an e-mail. Tell us why you think it's a good or bad idea. And then if you've been on the GI Bill, tell us what it did for you. Again, that's CNN.com/am.
ROBERTS: Hillary Clinton says she has a better shot at beating John McCain than Barack Obama does. John King at the magic wall with a dramatic demonstration of how West Virginia can help her make that case today.
And a nation on edge this morning, the U.S.-backed government of Lebanon against supporters of Hezbollah. CNN's Christiane Amanpour explains what's at stake and could they plunge back into civil war? Coming up next.
PHILLIPS: Also, a second American plane heading into Myanmar. Charges that the government is hoarding the good food and handing out the rotten food. We're going to talk with the U.S. commander in charge of that region straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Tense confrontation leading to fears of an all-out conflict in Lebanon this morning between the army and supporters of Hezbollah. At least 58 people have been killed, 189 hurt since fighting broke out in Beirut last week. It's the worst sectarian violence in Lebanon since the 15-year civil war that ended in 1990.
Now, the western-backed government of Lebanon is ratcheting up attempts to confront Hezbollah's power. Christiane Amanpour, CNN's chief international correspondent, talks to us about it more. And you're learning information by the minute.
CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, and putting it is making a spade a spade. Basically Hezbollah de facto controls not just west Beirut, but all of Lebanon. The army, western-backed sent out -- rather the government western-backed sent out the army to try to stabilize the situation. It chose not to engage. Hezbollah has won right now.
Hezbollah is de facto in control. It has seniority. Prime minister backed by the United States is de facto under house arrest as are other government ministers like Saad Hariri, Walid Jumblatt. There is no presidency, no parliament, no cabinet. It is in a state of paralysis and people believe, people who are working this situation as I have been told by western diplomats, that this could head to a reignition of the '75 civil war, because the one million Sunnis there are not going to just stand by and say, here, Hezbollah, have the country.
PHILLIPS: All right. So here's the question. What is the answer? Does the U.S. need to get involved? President Bush -- I just want to take a quick listen to what he said concerning this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe it's possible, not only possible, I believe it's going to happen. That there will be a signed peace treaty by the time I leave office. That's what I believe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: He's actually talking about the West Bank there.
AMANPOUR: He's talking about the Israel/Palestine peace treaty there. And actually this whole thing in Lebanon is putting all of that at risk. Israel right now is surrounded by Hezbollah, by Syria, and by Hamas, Gaza, Lebanon and Syria.
There's never been a situation this critical right now. Analysts are telling me that right now, the U.S., the west, Arab allies have been trying to do something about the current Lebanese situation to no avail, and it's being described to me as the west and its Arab allies, the U.S., looking at best incompetent, at worst incompetent and ridiculous, because they are not able to do anything right now.
The two key players are Syria and Iran, who have the influence over Hezbollah, and they are not being engaged. So what you have here, one downside potentially for Hezbollah, it might have scored a military victory. But it is probably potentially a political liability because Hezbollah which refused to disarm has always said it will not train its weapons on the Lebanese people. Now it has, and that could be a problem for it because it's built its credibility on being resistant to Israel, not on fighting fellow Lebanese.
PHILLIPS: You know, I know this is two totally different stories. But while I have you, I want to take advantage of you right now. Just listening to Lebanon, you mention incompetence and you mention these holdouts.
Let's turn to Myanmar for a minute. Talk about, I mean, incompetence. You've got thousands and thousands of people facing disease, starvation, and you've got a military junta that has all this aid coming in from the U.S. to Greece and they're saying, we'll think about it. They're giving the rotten food to the victims. They're hoarding the good food. What is going to happen there?
AMANPOUR: Well, it's such a cynical situation. The military junta is basically saying we can control this country, we can do it. Clearly, they can't.
Look, I have witnessed disaster after disaster around the world and even the most effective country needs massive logistical help. Not just to receive the aid but to distribute it in a meaningful and proper way.
Now, there is talk going on right now about a potential aid invasion and the moral imperative of doing something under the right to protect rule of the United Nations. People like the French foreign minister, who himself was involved in the massive air drop to the Kurds during the first President Bush's presidency after the Gulf war when Saddam chased the Kurds away from their homeland?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Is that the only answer, is dropping it?
AMANPOUR: Potentially. We've seen this in Haiti, in Somalia, as I said in the Kurdish areas after the Gulf war. And people are saying it's not all right just to see these people starving and disease spreading because the junta is incapable of accepting aid and help.
PHILLIPS: Human rights abuse, bottom line. Christiane Amanpour, great to see you. Thank you so much. And we're also going to be talking to the head of the U.S. Pacific command, Admiral Timothy Keating joining us talking about how he plans to get that aid in there to the people. John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: The polls are open right now. West Virginia votes today and for the first time in decades will have a huge say in choosing a democratic nominee. 28 delegates are up for grabs today. Right now, Barack Obama leads Hillary Clinton by 166. Barack Obama now leads in superdelegates as well, 277 to 273, but Clinton says she can sway the swing states. Barack Obama does not have high expectations for West Virginia, but he does for the general election. He's campaigning in red and swing states aiming his shots at John McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: John McCain, remember he liked to say he's part of the straight talk express. But let me tell you something, that straight talk express lost a couple wheels on the way to the republican nomination. Because he hasn't been straight with the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: John McCain in the meantime is going after democrats and independents. He's heading to an environmental round table in Washington making the environment one of the key elements of his presidential bid.
Well, the outcome in West Virginia today could have major implications for the democratic race and the November elections. CNN's chief national correspondent John King here to tell us all about it. He has got the magic wall up early this morning. Good morning, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, John.
ROBERTS: Let's talk about demographics in West Virginia and how it plays so heavily in Hillary Clinton's favor.
KING: Well, Hillary Clinton has the odds stacked overwhelmingly against her. We'll talk about the math in a minute but the point she wants to make is watch this closely. Because she's making the case Barack Obama is a fundamentally flawed democratic nominee. And this is her argument, she says watch how I do tonight. I'm going to win tonight and I'm going to win big up in here along white, rural, and small city West Virginians. She says I'm going to win down here big.
Now, why does that matter? Senator Clinton would make the case go back to 1992. My husband Bill won the presidency. He's the blue right here. He carried West Virginia, some republican pockets but if you look at this state, Bill Clinton did very well. That's 1992, a democratic White House as a result of that election. She will say look at what happens in 2000. That's red as George W. Bush. He took West Virginia away. Had Al Gore won that state he would have been president of the United States. George Bush wins reelection. Again the state is all red. And some will say it's just West Virginia, and Hillary Clinton will say no, it isn't actually.
Come over here and look at Ohio. This is the Bush victory in 2004. This is Senator Clinton in the democratic primaries. Come next door to Pennsylvania. Democrats have held this state in recent presidential elections. Hillary Clinton says it's at risk if Barack Obama has this flaw and cannot win white working class voters. So, she has a very tough road to hold, John, but her case is look very closely here, you're about to nominate a man who may have a fatal flaw in the general election.
ROBERTS: So, the demographics in West Virginia played very much in her favor. Let's broaden that and look at the overall delegate race. Because you have some amazing software in this magic wall to tell us what's going on with the delegates. And is there any route via delegates for her to get to the nomination?
KING: Let's first show you the map of what's left. Hillary Clinton's problem is she's running out of time, running out of states, running out of available delegates to make up the gap. We have what's left, West Virginia here will vote tonight. And then you have Kentucky, Puerto Rico, and a few states out in the mountain west, but a very small delegate pool left available to her. And we start with this basic map. Senator Obama is up here. Senator Clinton behind him now. Not only in pledge delegates but superdelegates. I think this puts it into sharp contrast, John.
Here is where we will start the night tonight. Senator Clinton back here at this green line. Senator Obama here. Just look at the distance each needs to get to the finish line. What Senator Clinton needs and these are the available delegates left, more superdelegates left in this pool than pledge delegates, she needs more than 70 percent, nearly 71 percent. So look at the flip side. If Barack Obama wins only three in ten from here to the end, he's your democratic nominee. He doesn't have to do all that well. Just give him a small size of each and he crosses the finish line.
So Senator Clinton can win 68, 69 percent of the delegates, which she has not done so far, and there's no reason she will do to the finish line and she will still lose based on the math. So, the math is overwhelmingly stacked against her. Again, if Obama wins 3 in 10 from here on out, he wins.
ROBERTS: Just really quickly, you probably heard Terry McAuliffe earlier saying if they win the popular vote, if they manage to cross that line before the end of the primary season they can make a case to the superdelegates that she should be a nominee. Is that a viable argument?
KING: It is a potentially viable argument. What the Clinton campaign is asking is that you count Michigan and Florida in their popular vote math. Remember, back in Iowa and New Hampshire when she was trying to appeal to the voters in those early states she agreed with the rules that Florida and Michigan would not count. So, she was for the rules that excluded Florida and Michigan.
ROBERTS: I want to touch the magic wall...
KING: Be my guest.
ROBERTS: Because what would happen there - Barack Obama's name not even on the ballot there so he gets none of the vote, right?
KING: Right, not on the ballot there. And he's in a position of strength right now. He's unlikely to agree to any compromise that gives her more of those delegates. So, again, she agreed to the rules at the beginning. Now she's trying to change them because the math works against her.
ROBERTS: John, thanks for coming in. Love this thing. And John, of course, will be flexing his muscles and working it out tonight on the "Election Center" as the returns come in. Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. Well, allegations that the military junta is hoarding good food and giving the rotten food to the cyclone victims on the verge of starvation right now. So, what will happen and will the government in Myanmar even agree to accept more American help? I talked to Admiral Timothy Keating, commander of the U.S. military Pacific command, who led the first relief flight. He got some resistance, a little bit got in. And here were his first impressions upon landing there in the area also known as Burma.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF ADMIRAL TIM KEATING, CMDR, U.S. PACIFIC COMMAND: Burma is in need of significant assistance, Kyra. We offered those forces that we have prepared at this very moment to come help them. We've got thousands of marines. We've got sailors. We've got helicopters. We've got C-130s. The Burmese were cordial. They acknowledged our offers of assistance, but we got no firm decisions from them.
PHILLIPS: And you have met with the members of the military. Have you tried to negotiate with them? Were the conversations curt and short? I know you pretty well and you're really good with negotiations. So this must be a real challenge. KEATING: It's a challenge. They weren't so much negotiations and were decisions, Kyra. Cordial, not confrontational, but the Burmese simply said we will take these matters under consideration. We will have to discuss them with the Prime Minister and we will get back to you when we have a decision. It may be days. It may be longer.
PHILLIPS: We're talking about thousands and thousands of people facing disease, starvation, these are desperate individuals. Is there any other way that you can get that aid to these people or do you have to deal with this military junta?
KEATING: We have to deal with the leadership of the country, and that is our government's position, and that's what we're prepared to do.
PHILLIPS: And do you have any confidence that you will get that green light and how long it can you stay there to wait for that green light?
KEATING: We will stay oz long as we need to and can. We can't stay here forever, of course, so we're hopeful that we get news very soon. We're already -- we've been ready for a couple of days. As you mentioned, there are countless, thousands suffering as we speak. That's why the young men and women in uniform are so anxious to begin providing a service right now.
PHILLIPS: Admiral Timothy Keating, thank you.
KEATING: Thanks, Kyra.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: 38 minutes after the hour. Breaking news to tell you this morning. The numbers keep going up in China. China's state media now confirming 18,000 people dead and the numbers are expected to keep on climbing because there are still thousands more people who are missing, trapped in the rubble. You got to remember that in Sichuan province, which is in central China, there are some 83 or 84 million people who live in that area. So for this death toll to be as low as it is is somewhat remarkable, and as I said, with the thousands of people still missing and more pictures that you see there from the area of the devastation, that death toll is expected to climb. But it's taking so long to get these numbers because rescuers are now only just reaching the hardest hit areas as they desperately try to dig survivors out of the rubble.
Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta is watching the situation there. John Vause is on the ground. We're going to have more reports coming up on AMERICAN MORNING. Sanjay Gupta up next. Stay with us. We'll be back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: 41 minutes after the hour. Just a quick update on the breaking news that we told you about. I just want to revise those figures a little bit. It's not 18,000 dead. This is news coming in from the city of Mianyang which is 75 miles northeast of Chengdu, which is the major population center in the heart of Sichuan province. Mianyang is about 122 miles northeast of the epicenter of the quake. Apparently what they're saying is 3,600 people in Mianyang are confirmed dead and 18,000 buried in the rubble. And they're working desperately to try to get those people out. So you can imagine with the extent of the destruction there, things are a little bit fluid on the ground so just updating those figures in Mianyang. 3,600 now confirmed dead. Thatis a population center of about 75 miles northeast of Chengdu and 18,000 people buried in that city.
And if history is any guide, many of those people who are buried will not survive. So we do expect to see the death toll continue to rise. We'll keep you updated on this. We've got John Vause on the ground in (Goshi)ph which is close to the epicenter. Sanjay Gupta is going to be joining us in a few minutes to tell us more about the effects of this terrible earthquake.
PHILLIPS: It must have a tough segue. We'll bring in Ali Velshi now and we'll talk about business but you've been following that as well too and it's pretty amazing, you talk about history repeating itself and the fact that majority of these people will probably will have lost their lives, but we've covered the survival stories as well.
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It can be pretty miraculous. And you can see compared to the situation we had in Myanmar, the information coming out of China is relatively -- moving a lot faster than it was out of Myanmar. We have seen in catastrophes in China in the past that we don't get that kind of information flow. So, at least, if there's one good part of this, there seems to be a move of how many people are trapped and some move of rescuing them. We can only hope but we will continue to keep an eye on that situation.
Other situation we're keeping an eye on today is as our energy crisis around the world gets greater and greater, what are some of our options? And we've been discussing this morning the option of using coal to make gasoline. This is something that is done in other parts of the world. In particular in South Africa, they do this very successfully. There are a couple of disadvantages to doing it, and I just want to point those out.
One of them is that the production of coal into gasoline releases CO2 into the atmosphere. Now, there are ways of containing that, but that makes the process more expensive and that has to be done. This is typical coal that can be made into oil. The other issue that we've got is if we start using coal for gasoline, it drives the price of coal up. Coal is a plentiful commodity here in the United States which is used to provide electricity. Much of the electricity we use comes from plants that are fired by coal. The other thing is it will take years to implement that sort of thing.
In South Africa as I mentioned, it is the - coal from -- gasoline from coal is the largest supply of gasoline in that country. When you go to a gas station, there's a very good chance that you're getting gasoline that was produced from coal. And we spoke just recently to the CEO of Sasol which is the South African company that does this, that makes coal into gasoline. Here is what the CEO told me about coal in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT DAVIES, CEO, SASOL LTD.: We're working actively on an opportunity in the United States because you have all the oil you need. It's just stored in the form of coal, and now technology converts it into the oil that you need. In fact, you have more coal here in oil equivalent than all of the middle east as in proven reserves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: And Sasol was one of the companies discussing with various states the option of coming in and helping that process of developing coal, making coal into gasoline here in the United States.
ROBERTS: Ali, thanks very much.
45 minutes after the hour. And grim numbers out of China this morning, we were telling but just minutes ago. Chinese state media said nearly 18,000 victims are still buried after yesterday's earthquake in one city alone. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us with a look at the critical situation to try to get the survivors out. Coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: We continue to watch that breaking news in China. Just minutes ago, Chinese state media confirmed that nearly 4,000 people are dead, another 18,000 still buried in just one city, and that's from the earthquake we've been covering since yesterday in central China. CNN's John Vause reported live from near the quake's epicenter just a short time ago. Here is what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we have here is what I was talking about, the people who are wounded, who have nowhere else to go, who are under these tarpaulins who are essentially waiting for help. We have spoken to people here. They have told us that they need food, they need medical attention, and they are not getting it. What we've also seen in our journey up this side of the mountain, a woman being dragged along in a makeshift stretcher.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is joining us now. Sanjay, obviously a critical time for rescuers and survivors. What do you think is the greatest concern right now?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, you sort of thinking of this in three phases. And speed matters certainly here, Kyra. The first phase obviously, the immediate after effects of the earthquake. The second phase, John, were eloquently referred to this, sort of this idea that people are. They are salvageable, but you have to get to them quickly. So, that's really important. And the third phase is sort of what's going to transpire over the next few weeks, people sort of displaced here.
You know, cleaning up all the sewage, clean up all the toxic materials, that can all be difficult as well, and keep in mind, as you might guess, Kyra, simply getting around in this area of the earthquake because the roads have been damaged as a result of the quake itself makes it more difficult. When you talk about survivability overall, as you might guess it's really based on three things. Water, oxygen, and food, and roughly speaking, it depends obviously how healthy someone is, the conditions they're in, without water five to ten days, without oxygen, 7 to 15 minutes. Without food, three to six weeks. So, you can sort of imagine as you see people being pulled from the rubble, the type of situation that they're is going to be very determinative of how long they can survive.
Having said that, you know, Kyra, when I was covering the earthquake in Pakistan, we found a woman, met a woman who had survived for 65 days trapped. So, you know, certainly some stories of survival can come out weeks from now.
PHILLIPS: And we've talked about those miracles and you covered them right there as we look at this video of when you covered that disaster. You know, you're a neurosurgeon, you're in the medical field. Talk to us about crush injuries. That's a whole other dynamic. You may be able to get the oxygen and water, but if they can't get you out and you're dealing with these intense injuries, what can happen to the body?
GUPTA: Well, yes, absolutely. And when somebody has a crush injury like that, getting them to some sort of medical care is critically important. What happens is you cut off blood supply to a certain part of your body, a leg, or arm or something and that can set you up for a pretty bad infections down the road. The key in, you know, Pakistan, where you're looking, where you were looking a few minutes ago, it was an area that was so remote, so difficult to access and it was difficult to get people to medical care. So, what you might see in China as we saw in Pakistan were these sort of surgical pins that are set up around the periphery so if you have crush inquiries, you have some sort of trauma. You can get someone from the location to one of these medical centers very quickly.
PHILLIPS: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, we will be praying for those miracles. Appreciate your time.
GUPTA: All right. Thanks, Kyra.
ROBERTS: coming up on nine minutes now to the top of the hour and happening right now.
People in West Virginia coming are at the polls and coming up to look at the impact of today's primary. Will it be a turning point in the race for the democratic contest? That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: A quick check of this morning's "quick vote" question. We have been asking should military members who serve three years on active duty be given a full ride for college? It's the centerpiece of the new G.I. bill in Congress. Right now, 80 percent of you say yes, 20 percent of you say no. Cast your vote at cnn.com/am. We'll tally your votes throughout the morning and we'll be talking with the bill's co-author Senator Chuck Hagel coming up on our next half hour here.
Also getting some e-mails from you this morning and some good ones. This one from Phillip in Alexandria, Virginia who has been serving in the army for almost 40 years. He writes "to extend full college subsidy to military personnel who have served for a simple entry level first tour sounds great on the surface. However, it does not support the goal of enticing military members to serve beyond the initial tour. I would be in favor of a more gradual growth in benefits overtime and a clear identification of those who actually served in combat. Some benefit is warranted for all, but those who really bear the sacrificial load should be favored in some programmed way."
PHILLIPS: This coming from Dennis in North Haven, Connecticut. He's got a bit of a different outlook. He writes "of course, they should receive the same benefits as other vets. I'm a Vietnam Vet and i used my benefits for college along with purchasing a home. People in this country need to realize that serving in the service is not just a job, but also putting your life on the line. They deserve those benefits.
PHILLIPS: Next round. Clinton looks for a convincing West Virginia as Obama looks past his primary concern.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have great respect for John McCain's service to this country, but I could not disagree with him more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: All right now, at this moment, the polls are opened in West Virginia and up for grabs 28 delegates. Senator Hillary Clinton favored to win the state but it wont make much of a dent in Barack Obama's lead. Now here are the raw numbers going into today's contest so far. Obama leading Clinton by a total of 172 delegates. He has 1,869 and Clinton 1,697. Now, as for superdelegates, Clinton started off the year ahead by 100. That's her on top but Obama has steadily closed the gap. As of CNN's latest count, Obama is ahead by four superdelegates. Now, Obama has 277, Clinton 273, 248 superdelegates remain undecided. Senator Clinton now has campaigned heavily and down the state and as we mentioned, she is expected to win big but will it matter?
Joining us here no in the studio New Jersey congressman Donald Payne who is supporting Senator Obama and California Congressman Loretta Sanchez who is backing Senator Clinton. John has that for us now.
ROBERTS: All right. And Congressman Payne, let me put the first question because you make some big west last Friday. You are a Hillary Clinton supporter. You switch your allegiance to Barack Obama. We haven't had a chance to ask him, first of all, why you did that?
REP. DONALD PAYNE, OBAMA SUPPORTER: Well, I think it's time now for us to sort of focus on November. I think that the race has turned to where the American people, I believe wants to see change. I think that the new voters have come in to the fold, register because of the leadership of Obama.
ROBERTS: So, are you saying it's over. He has won. It's finished.
PAYNE: Well I'm not saying that Senator Clinton should end her race. I think that the people have a right to express themselves but I would hope that the rhetoric would focus on McCain rather than on each other.
ROBERTS: Congresswoman Sanchez, you've remained loyal, why and why do you say that Congressman Payne's arguments here.
REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, you know, I believe that Hillary can still win. I believe think she'll see that in West Virginia today. We got Kentucky, Puerto Rico is going overwhelmingly for her. So she has more elections to win and there are still superdelegates who really don't know which way to go.
ROBERTS: So, you say, you think she can still win?
SANCHEZ: Absolutely.
ROBERTS: Lat out her path to the nomination for me here because certainly when it comes to the delegates, the math is stacked heavily against here, if not impossible.
SANCHEZ: Well the only way that either one of them can get past that magic number that you need to reach before the convention is for all the superdelegates that haven't declared to go one or the other pretty much. And I don't see that happening. I talked to them right on the House floor and a lot of them are just so, which way to go. They're waiting to see how this plays out. I think that by the time, the primaries and the caucuses are over, Hillary would have won the most popular votes and she will be about 100 delegates away from Barack Obama. Look, she wins in those states we absolutely need to win. You know, if you know West Virginia, you probably have a democratic president. If you don't win Florida, it's another problem, if you don't win Ohio -
ROBERTS: Congresswoman Payne, what do you say of this idea of if she wins the popular vote when this is all said and done, she's got a good case for the nomination. Is that changing the rules? PAYNE: Of course, it's changing the rules. You know, they all agree to the rules about Florida and Michigan but now the Senator wants to change the rules. Number one Barack Obama will win the same states that Hillary Clinton will win, without a doubt. He will win the same state that Senator Kerry won, the nine states that he won before.
ROBERTS: Why are you saying, you can't do that and you're shaking your head.
