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American Morning
Clinton Vows to Keep Fighting; What the West Virginia Exit Polls Say About Issues; Ed Rendell, a Possible VP for Obama?
Aired May 14, 2008 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Oregon is a mail-in vote. It's already been under way for a while now.
On June 1st, 55 delegates up for grabs in Puerto Rico. And then Montana and South Dakota, June the 3rd, round out the primary season with 31 delegates total.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux joins me now with where the campaigns and the issues go from here. First of all, Hillary Clinton keeps on seeming to suggest that there's a chance that she could pull this thing out. What's the path to the nomination for her?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, they really believe that this is possible. They still believe this is possible. You talk to her supporters and she has not let go of this. And the first thing they're going to do is look at Florida and Michigan, May 31st, the rules committee. What's going to happen with those two states?
That is really going to move the goal posts, the finish line if you will. It will kick the can forward. That's what they need. She's not going to get out before then.
And also, they're going to finish out the rest of these contests here. They feel confident about Kentucky. They feel confident about Puerto Rico, and they've got this kind of momentum. They feel that she still has a chance here.
She's going to be sitting down with her biggest supporters today in Washington talking about the money, talking about the times, saying look, this is the game that I was meant to be in. This is the way I'm performing. This is the way it should have been.
We're on a roll here. Let's keep this thing going. There's no one in her inner circle who is saying give up now.
ROBERTS: According to the polls, she'll win Puerto Rico and Kentucky. She said that Barack Obama looks like he's going to take South Dakota, Montana and Oregon. So there's a split here in these final six contests. In terms of moving the goal posts, last night she was saying the rules of the party are it takes 2,209 delegates to cross the finish line but currently the number is 2,025.
The Clinton campaign, is it really counting on not just seating the delegates for Michigan and Florida, but having those two states actually factored into the math for the nomination? MALVEAUX: Sure, sure. It's all about proportion. I mean, how much of Florida does she get? How much of Michigan do they get, and is that going to be OK for the Obama camp? I mean, that's all a part of the math. The one thing that --
ROBERTS: But if the math puts her over the top, I assume that the Obama campaign wants nothing to do with it.
MALVEAUX: Absolutely not. But they actually don't even feel like they need it because they're counting on the fact that he had 27 superdelegates since last week, since those contests last week. They are going to get the superdelegates. They are confident by the end of the month that they don't even need to worry about Florida and Michigan.
ROBERTS: But moving that finish line though would throw another variable into the calculation, wouldn't it?
MALVEAUX: Oh, absolutely. I mean, but this is the thing. I mean, they feel like if we can sit down with the superdelegates, the Clinton folks, and convince them that, look, this whole equation is changing, the bar is changing, then we've got a shot at this. We've got a chance.
It's fascinating to talk to these guys because honestly they say it's Hillary first, it's party second. We've got plenty of time to make nice with the Obama folks.
ROBERTS: We'll see what happens. Suzanne, great to see you.
MALVEAUX: Thanks.
ROBERTS: Kyra?
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Larry King affectionately calls him chairman of the board. We're talking about John King and the magic wall. Why Democrats are sitting up and taking notice about Hillary Clinton and her landslide victory in West Virginia. Are you OK with chairman of the board?
JOHN KING, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Larry calls me that? I'm not going to fight with Larry.
PHILLIPS: You're not going to argue with him.
All right. Take us to it. Lay out Hillary's case here, Hillary Clinton's case.
KING: Look, a very impressive victory for Senator Clinton last night in the state of West Virginia. This is county-by-county. Let me take those green lines out of there for a minute, and just look.
Dark blue is Barack Obama. You see it over here in the state of Virginia which voted earlier. It is decidedly missing from the state of West Virginia. Senator Clinton ran up huge margins. He didn't even get 30 percent of the vote, Kyra, just cracked 25 percent of the vote.
So what Senator Clinton says is look at that. This is a state the Democrats should win. They need to win if they want to win the White House. I can win these white working class voters, and she would make the argument.
The Obama campaign will say, well, it's West Virginia. It's a state built for you demographically. He didn't compete very hard there so it's one state, doesn't matter.
What Senator Clinton says is look at areas like this. And I want to shrink this down and show you other places. Here is Pennsylvania. Here is Ohio. Here is rural Virginia.
Even though Obama won the state, Clinton did well out in rural Virginia. North Carolina, out in rural areas, Clinton does well. Tennessee, she does well. She expects to do very well here in Kentucky. The reason that is not lit up is it hasn't voted yet in the Democratic primary.
So, remember this, Senator Clinton says look at this area right in here. And she says I'm doing very well with these voters. Now, why does that matter? Well, let's go back in time to the 2004 presidential election.
Red is George W. Bush. George W. Bush is president of the United States because of his support in small town rural America. Took West Virginia from Al Gore in 2000. Had Al Gore held on to West Virginia, he would have been president of the United States.
So Senator Clinton says remember this map. I can win among these people. And remember this. Let's go back in time and look at some of these states right here.
PHILLIPS: I want to make sure I get in Barack Obama's counter argument as well, too.
KING: We'll get it in quickly. I just want to show you...
PHILLIPS: OK.
KING: ... 1992, this is Ohio and West Virginia. Bill Clinton was president of the United States because he was able to win in many of these rural areas. So what Senator Clinton says, look at '92 and '96, look at 2000. I'm a stronger candidate in rural America. That's what you need to get to the White House.
PHILLIPS: All right. We will talk with Jamal about the counter argument, but I know we're going to see you again. We got to get back over to John King -- John Roberts.
KING: That one.
PHILLIPS: The other John -- John.
ROBERTS: All right, Kyra, thanks very much. We're back with our political panel. Jamal Simmons is a Democratic strategist, Obama supporter. Julian Epstein, another Democratic strategist and a Hillary Clinton supporter. Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez and John Dickerson from "Slate" magazine and also a CNN political analyst.
John was mentioning Hillary Clinton talking about the importance of West Virginia in the general election. Let's listen to what she had to say about that last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is a fact that no Democrat has won the White House since 1916 without winning West Virginia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: OK. So it's a fact that no Democrat has won the White House without winning West Virginia, but this year, John, does the Democratic candidate need to win it to win the White House?
JOHN DICKERSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Barack Obama would say no. The map has changed. Forget about West Virginia. We're going to talk about Virginia, where he won by 29 points, where he can change the map and he can compete with Republicans there. So that's his argument.
His secondary argument, of course, also is everybody is fixating on the white collar and the blue collar vote, blue collar whites, but polling shows that I do well with them among -- against John McCain and I don't do any worse than Hillary Clinton, so that there is no permanent damage to him done by these losses in the primaries. That's his argument.
ROBERTS: But Leslie, does it show an inherent weakness in his ability to campaign for the November election if he can't win West Virginia over Hillary Clinton?
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's an interesting argument. I mean, West Virginia is low income, rural voters, has a significant numbers of those. Very safe, oriented community, more Protestant and Baptist, but it's always been a significant state. Even if you go back to 1960, Jack Kennedy winning there showing that a Catholic could actually win in a state like that.
It's really sad to see he discounted those voters and the fact that John King just pointed out had a few more precincts gone for Al Gore that would definitely would have been a Democrat victory overall. So I think it's an interesting strategy. It's hard to say you can discount it, and I think that's part of the momentum that Hillary Clinton is showing she has.
ROBERTS: Julian and Jamal, he ignored West Virginia. Basically pretended it didn't exist, didn't even mention it yesterday in that speech, didn't have a concession speech. What do you think of that whole idea? JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, you know, Senator Clinton ignored a bunch of states earlier in the primaries. She's in trouble right now because she ignored states with caucuses. So what these candidates do is they campaign in places that they can do well, or maybe they can win and they ignore some of the places they're going to do poorly. I think the Obama campaign faced the notion, listen, he's probably not going to win West Virginia, so how much time should he spend there this week anyway.
ROBERTS: But would it have been wise --
SIMMONS: Excuse me.
ROBERTS: Would it have been wise though for him to try to narrow the gap a little bit to show that, you know, he can play with those voters?
SIMMONS: Maybe, maybe not. He still would have had to face up to a loss and if he campaigned there and lost, it would be a much bigger deal than it is.
ROBERTS: What do you think, Julian?
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think it was a mistake for him not to go there. I mean, look, the weakness of Barack Obama's candidacy right now if he has one is the argument about whether he can win swing states. West Virginia is arguably a swing state. Every Democrat that's won the White House, as Hillary Clinton said since 1916, has won West Virginia. He has to show he can win swing states. He has to show he can win swing voters.
For him to effectively boycott West Virginia I think was a mistake. His argument is those states don't matter. As John was saying, West Virginia may not matter, Ohio and Pennsylvania as we enlarged in the map. What we know for sure, I think, is that Florida, Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania will be swing states.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERTS: We've got to run but let me ask you one word answer. Can he win West Virginia in November?
SIMMONS: Maybe but he can certainly win Missouri, Michigan, Ohio --
ROBERTS: All right.
SIMMONS: And the other states.
ROBERTS: We'll go to those alternate routes -- we'll go to those alternate routes next time around. Folks, thanks.
SIMMONS: But maybe she can't win either.
ROBERTS: Kyra? PHILLIPS: All right. Oh-oh. Alina, you better help us out. Bring those other stories. They're going to keep going. We'll come back to you, I promise.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a good fight though, isn't it?
PHILLIPS: That's right, and it will be all the way to November.
CHO: Yes, there's a lot of other news. Good morning, Kyra. Good morning, everybody. And new this morning.
President Bush and First Lady Laura Bush are in Israel. They're celebrating the country's 60th anniversary. The president, of course, also making a new push for Mideast peace. And to that end, Mr. Bush will meet today with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Tomorrow he heads to Saudi Arabia and there he will meet with King Abdullah, where the two leaders will also touch on oil production.
We are also watching a developing story in Myanmar. Another powerful storm is apparently headed toward the devastated country. Less than two weeks after a cyclone tore through the region, state run media is now reporting that more than 34,000 people are dead. But the U.N. says the death toll could top 100,000.
A humanitarian crisis for sure and just a short time ago, the man heading up the American relief effort, Admiral Timothy Keating, told AMERICAN MORNING the U.S. will only enter Myanmar air space to drop aid to cyclone victims with the approval of the strict military government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF ADM. TIMOTHY KEATING, COMMANDER, U.S. PACIFIC COMMAND: We talked to our Burmese hosts about that option, Kyra, of slinging supplies underneath helicopters and bringing them from the USS Essex Group, which is off the southwest coast of Burma. They're in position now with a dozen plus heavy lift-capable helicopters, but we are not going to "invade Burmese air space." We will only do this with the approval of Burmese officials.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHO: And that has been a challenge so far; 170,000 pounds of U.S. aid has arrived so far, but, of course, much more is needed.
Baseball's all-time home run king is facing more charges this morning. A grand jury has updated the indictment against Barry Bonds boosting the number of perjury counts to 14. He is also facing one count of obstruction of justice. Back in November, Bonds was charged with lying and blocking the government's investigation into steroid use in baseball. His lawyers maintain he is innocent.
And a sign of the times, more and more Americans are apparently cutting the cord on landline phones. Does this make sense to you? It does to a lot of people. A new study says by the end of last year, 16 percent of homes were cell phone only. In 2004, that number was just five percent and users who had a landline phone said they mostly ignored calls on them because they were mostly from telemarketers.
You know, just the other day I got -- I was talking to a friend and I said listen, let me call you at home. So, what's your home number? And she said --
ROBERTS: I don't have one.
CHO: No. She said, I don't know. I have it still. I just don't know what it is. I don't use it anymore.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: I never check the voice mail.
CHO: I said, why don't you get rid of it?
ROBERTS: Cutting the cord on a landline would make it just like your cell phone. Hello, can you hear me? Hello?
CHO: Yes, there's still that issue of service but, you know, people are doing it.
PHILLIPS: Hillary Clinton has already loaned her campaign millions of dollars. And with her war chest falling deeper into the red, can she raise enough cash to stay in the race?
Plus, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell is a member of Clinton's inner circle and was a big reason that she won the Keystone State. So what are the possibilities that he could be tapped as a running mate for Barack Obama? We'll ask him next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know from the bible that faith can move mountains, and my friends, the faith of the mountain state has moved me. I am more determined than ever to carry on this campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Hillary Clinton told supporters right there in West Virginia that she's in until the end, and she made it clear that she intends to be the nominee. But is her win a little too late? Joining me now, Clinton supporter, Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell in Harrisburg. Good morning, governor.
GOV. ED RENDELL (D-PA), CLINTON SUPPORTER: Good morning. How are you?
PHILLIPS: Good to see you. You heard her speech. Clearly Hillary Clinton stepping up saying hey, take a look at the map. I'm winning in swing states she says, but is this enough to slow down Barack Obama's momentum right now?
RENDELL: Well, I think it's really in the hands of both the undecided superdelegates and some superdelegates have to have second thoughts now and think about what occurred last night.
For a solid week, the media has been saying it's over, Barack Obama is the candidate. "Time" magazine, "Newsweek" magazine. And in the face of that barrage, West Virginia voters went out in near record numbers and gave her a 41 point victory. That's never happened in politics before when the media has counted out one candidate that in the next primary that candidate wins by 41 points.
And, by the way, Barack Obama -- the Obama campaign, David Axelrod is a really smart guy. They played an interesting game. They don't put the candidate in so they can say if they lose, we didn't try very hard. And yet, they spent a ton of money on TV.
The Hillary Clinton campaign as usual was outspent in West Virginia, written off by the media, and she won by 41 points.
PHILLIPS: OK. So you --
RENDELL: If you're a superdelegate, you've got to be thinking about that this morning.
PHILLIPS: Well, let's take --
RENDELL: We've got to field our strongest candidate.
PHILLIPS: Take the power as you say this it's over media blitz versus her swing state argument. What's going to resonate more with those superdelegates?
RENDELL: Well, again, I can't speak for all the superdelegates, but I know if I was undecided and my goal was to win back the White House, and I think that's every Democrats' goal, this morning I got to be scratching my head and saying how did a candidate who was written off by the media said that it was over. How did she not only win big, she won by 41 points with near record turnouts?
The people of West Virginia don't want it to be over. And I think Hillary Clinton, if you look at Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, states that no electoral math that can be done for a Democrat to win without carrying those, she's clearly the strongest candidate there.
PHILLIPS: All right, governor --
RENDELL: I think superdelegates just have to have second thoughts.
PHILLIPS: Well, John Roberts is going to talk with Obama supporter, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, coming up. I just for a second want to take a listen to what he said yesterday and ask you a question.
RENDELL: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Right now, we have Senator McCain campaigning in Democratic states like Oregon, talking about Democratic issues like global warming, taking votes away from us while we're still in this battle for the nomination which it's almost inevitable that it's going to be Senator Obama. We need to come together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: As Clinton stays in, is she hurting the party?
RENDELL: No, not at all. In fact, there's a case to be made, and a good case to be made, that if Senator Obama is our eventual nominee this has helped him.
He has organizations in all 50 states. He's been there. He's talked to Democrats. People understand his message to a great degree.
So I think this has helped him. It's made him a stronger candidate. He's handled attacks, attacks from the media, attacks from the Clinton campaign. So I think he's grown even stronger.
And I think Senator McCain has been off the radar screen. I think people don't have a clue what he stands for. He's getting no attention. All the attention is focused on us. I think we'll come together.
If Hillary Clinton is not the nominee, I know that she cares very much about making change, and she will absolutely support Senator Obama enthusiastically, as I will. I told Senator Obama I'll work as hard for him in Pennsylvania as I did for Hillary Clinton, but I believe with all my heart A, she is the most experienced and the most ready to be president.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: OK. I'm kind of reading -- I'm reading between the lines here. Let me ask you a question. Are you sort of backing away from your support for Hillary Clinton? I mean, I'm thinking --
RENDELL: No, not at all.
PHILLIPS: OK. Well, the one --
RENDELL: I'm the last of the Mohicans.
PHILLIPS: You're right there with her. Well, yesterday's "Washington Post" suggested possibly that Obama would name a Clinton supporter to the ticket. Your name came up. Would you do it? Would you consider being a running mate for Obama, with Obama? RENDELL: If Senator Obama becomes our nominee and he wants Clinton -- someone to carry the Clinton banner, there's no question in my mind they should ask Hillary Clinton to be that candidate. I don't know whether she would accept. I don't know whether he would do it.
But don't settle for someone -- a Clinton supporter. You've got the real thing, someone who has energized voters. And, by the way, the media makes a mistake in attributing all of these results to Senator Obama's weakness.
Give Senator Clinton some real credit. She has galvanized these voters. They believe in her. They believe she's a fighter.
They believe she's been knocked down, picked herself off the map, crushed by the media, stood up to the media and yet still standing. And I think that's an enormously attractive characteristic that people are coming to. So I think Senator Obama will do fine in the fall if he's our nominee. I just think that Senator Clinton is a sure winner.
PHILLIPS: Governor Ed Rendell, appreciate your time this morning.
RENDELL: Thanks very much, Kyra.
ROBERTS: Nineteen minutes after the hour.
The economy issue number one for voters. So how did the issue impact the vote in West Virginia? We'll have the exit poll results coming up.
But the numbers keep piling up for Barack Obama, but Hillary Clinton is making a case for why she should be the nominee. Both sides go head-to-head next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-two minutes after the hour. More people seem to be voting with their wallets, and in West Virginia those people voted for Hillary Clinton. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins me now with a look at the exit polls. Talk about issue number one being the economy, how did it come out for her?
BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Overwhelmed on all the other issues and those concerned about the economy voted for Hillary Clinton. It delivered for her. Take a look.
These are people who said the recession has affected them a great deal. That was almost half the Democrats in West Virginia, 73 percent. That's almost three-quarters for Hillary Clinton. Compare those who said they're not affected by the recession much or even at all, they voted for Hillary Clinton but by a much, much lower margin.
Why the economy paid off for her? She delivers. She's a fighter. She proposed the gas tax holiday, and you know what? In West Virginia, that was a popular notion. About half the Barack Obama supporters said that was a good idea. ROBERTS: Right. I mean, she won the state overwhelmingly. Would it have been possible for those numbers to be anything other than what we see there because of the margin of victory?
SCHNEIDER: When you win overwhelmingly, you win everywhere. It's hard to find any group.
ROBERTS: Because he won on the economy in North Carolina, right?
SCHNEIDER: Back in North Carolina, yes, he did. He did.
ROBERTS: Right.
SCHNEIDER: So when you win big, you win everything.
ROBERTS: Right. And we talked about this idea of unifying the Democratic Party and can it be done, and will bygones be bygones, and if Hillary Clinton gets the nomination, all the Obama voters will come over and they'll support her and vice versa. What did we find out last night in the exit polls?
SCHNEIDER: Bygones may end up being bygones, but they're not bygones yet. There's still a lot of bad feeling. Take a look at Obama voters.
We asked them, how would you vote if there's a choice in November between Hillary Clinton and John McCain? Just the bare majority, 54 percent said they'd vote for Clinton. Forty-two percent would either vote for McCain or would not vote. Now, that's not great for the Democrats.
But you want to see it gets worse. Take a look at the Clinton voters. How would they vote if it turns out to be a choice between Barack Obama and John McCain? Just 38 percent, a little over a third, say they'd stick with their candidate, these are all Democrats, but they voted for Clinton. They'd stick with Obama if he's the nominee. Almost as many said they'd vote for John McCain.
So you're getting almost 60 percent of West Virginia Clinton voters saying they wouldn't vote for Barack Obama.
ROBERTS: Now, you show those numbers to Howard Dean and he says nonsense. People in the end will vote for the Democratic candidate. Is this just like a snapshot of how they're feeling right now? Would that change in the next six months?
SCHNEIDER: It could easily change in the next six months. They have to reconcile somehow. It's a very deep division and historically those divisions are very tough to reconcile.
But one piece of good news for Democrats. That is a very big Democratic tide. They have won three tough special elections for the House of Representatives.
ROBERTS: Yes, one in Mississippi last night, Travis Childress.
SCHNEIDER: Mississippi last night. They weren't expected to win. It's been a Republican district for a long time.
ROBERTS: Since 1994, is that right?
SCHNEIDER: 1994. Louisiana they picked up a seat, and they picked up Dennis Hastert's seat in Illinois.
ROBERTS: Right.
SCHNEIDER: That kind of big wind in favor of the Democrats could do a lot towards reconciling that division in the party.
ROBERTS: All right. Thanks, Bill Schneider -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: With Hillary Clinton's win in West Virginia, the debate over what to do with those delegates from Florida and Michigan is heating up again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD WOLFSON, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: I don't accept any math that doesn't include Florida and Michigan. I have absolutely no doubt that the Democratic National Committee in its wisdom is going to decide how to seat Florida and Michigan. Those votes are going to count.
DONNA BRAZILE, SUPERDELEGATE: I respect what Howard said tonight in terms of the people who voted in Florida and Michigan, but also respect the millions of voters in the 48 states that also complied with the rules. We have to ensure that the integrity of the process is not messed up in such a way that would hurt us in years to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Right now, 2,025 are needed to clinch the nomination. If we include Michigan and Florida, that number jumps to 2,209. Hillary Clinton says she's not getting out and is there any way that she can still win? Well, her supporters think so.
And President Bush is in the rough. Find out why he says that he gave up golf. AMERICAN MORNING back in 90 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: Twenty-nine minutes after the hour. Hillary Clinton says that she is still got a shot at the nomination after a big win in West Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is why I am carrying on, and if you give me a chance, Democrats, I'll come back to West Virginia in the general election, and we'll win this state and we'll win the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP) ROBERTS: Clinton wins another swing state where blue collar white voters make up a sizable voting bloc, but is there any way that she can catch Barack Obama, or can Barack Obama win those voters over?
Well, joining me now to talk more about this, Ohio Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones. She supports Hillary Clinton. California Congressman Xavier Becerra supports Barack Obama. Good morning to both of you.
Congresswoman Jones, let's start with you. What did Hillary Clinton's win in West Virginia last night do to affect the race, if it did anything at all?
REP. STEPHANIE TUBBS JONES (D-OH), CLINTON SUPPORTER: I think it had a significant impact on the race. It shows to America and all those out there looking at us that Hillary Clinton is still on the map. Can you imagine a 61-39 percent win?
You have to give her credit. She's entitled to her day and days to say that Hillary Clinton is a hardworking candidate who can win for America.
ROBERTS: Congressman Becerra, did this at all affect the perception of Barack Obama as the presumed nominee in this race?
REP. XAVIER BECERRA (D-CA), OBAMA SUPPORTER: I don't think so, but I also think that Stephanie is correct that Senator Clinton has been on the map. She is on the map, and she'll always be on the map because she is a force to contend with, and someone who will be a great leader whether she's president or not.
ROBERTS: Hillary Clinton last night was again pointing to this idea of her winning in the swing states where Barack Obama can't win, and she talked about the importance of West Virginia. Let's listen to what she said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is a fact that no Democrat has won the White House since 1916 without winning West Virginia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Congressman Becerra, does she have a point there? She claims to be the stronger candidate because she's winning in places like West Virginia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, important swing states that could affect the outcome of this election.
BECERRA: John, she's correct that she's a very strong candidate, but quite honestly the big news from yesterday was in Mississippi where our candidate, our Democratic candidate, Travis Childers won a seat that's been held by a Republican by quite a bit of a margin. President Bush, I believe, had won that seat by over 60 percent of the vote. That makes three for three where Democrats have taken seats held by Republicans in the past. Three states, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Illinois in the last two months that have been won by Democratic congressional candidates. Three states where Barack Obama won.
ROBERTS: So what are you suggesting, Congressman? That there's a Democratic tide here that will be irrefutable and you won't be able to turn it back in November so it doesn't matter if he can win these states or not?
BECERRA: Yes to the latter - to the beginning of your comment, no to the latter part. Yes in that we are energizing candidates -- not only Democrats -- candidates, the voters. We're getting the voters to come out and vote in large numbers. Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are creating this enthusiasm which in November will lead to a Democratic victory in the White House.
ROBERTS: Go ahead, Congresswoman.
REP. STEPHANIE TUBBS-JONES (D), OHIO: Thank you very much. But I think what Senator Obama is missing is that the people in West Virginia at some point are going to have to vote for him if he becomes the candidate, and it was a missed opportunity for him to say to West Virginia, well, you're not important, I'm not going to be here tonight whether I win or lose. I didn't spend any time. I spent a lot of money with you but I didn't do anything. The reason Senator Clinton is winning so well in states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia is because she's saying to the voters no matter who you are, no matter where you come from, I'm going to be here and I'm going to work for you, and I want to touch you. I want to see, I want to feel you, and Barack Obama didn't do that.
ROBERTS: Well, she's going to be there at least through the 3rd of June. She's vowed to stay in. Congresswoman Jones, Congressman Becerra, thanks for being with us this morning. Good to see both of you.
BECERRA: Thank you.
TUBBS-JONES: Thanks for having me.
ROBERTS: Kyra.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, John, our "Quick Vote" question this morning, if Barack Obama can't win the swing states now, can he win them in the general election? Right now 55 percent of you say yes, 45 percent say no. Head to cnn.com/am to vote for us. And you can also send us an e-mail, let us know what you think. Do Clinton's victories in swing states like West Virginia prove that she's more electable? Go to cnn.com/am. Alina Cho here with other stories making headlines this morning.
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, guys. Good morning, everybody. And new this morning, devastating new numbers on the death toll from Monday's earthquake in China. Nearly 15,000 people dead, 26,000 buried and trapped, 14,000 missing. Rescuers are stepping up efforts to reach the victims. It is a critical time. 20,000 Chinese soldiers have now made it to those remote villages, and another 30,000 are said to be on the way.
The wildfires in Florida now an arson investigation. The flames have now burned 40 homes so far and left more than 10,000 acres in ashes. Crews in Brevard County say they have a majority of the fires contained. Schools in the area, however, are closed again today.
And listen to this one, guys. If you want to believe in aliens, that's just fine with the Catholic Church. The Vatican's chief astronomer, who knows they had one, says extraterrestrials created by god could exist in outer space and believing in them does not contradict the faith. So a little something for everyone today. Green men and god, compatible apparently.
PHILLIPS: All right. Where do we go from there?
ROBERTS: Well, let's go here. Barack Obama looking ahead to the general election as his campaign works to assure Democrats skittish about his chances in the fall. So what group will put Obama over the top?
PHILLIPS: And here's a question for you besides god and green Martians, why did President Bush decide to quit golfing? Our political panel teed up, they are teed up and they are ready to go on the green for this one. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: In a wide-ranging online interview with Politico and Yahoo! News President Bush discusses Iraq, the 2008 election and his faith. Well, he also reveals why he gave up playing golf back in 2003.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died see the commander in chief playing golf. I feel I owe it to the families to be as - you know, to be in solidarity as best as I can with them, and I think, you know, playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal.
MIKE ALLEN: Mr. President, was there a particular moment or incident that brought you to that decision or how did you come to that?
BUSH: No, you know, I remember when Demello who is of the U.N. got killed in Baghdad as a result of these murders taking these good man's life, and I was playing golf. I think it was in Central Texas, they pulled me off the golf course and I said it's just not worth it anymore to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: What do you, the viewers, think about that? And also we want to turn to our political panel, Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons who is supporting Barack Obama, Democratic strategist Julian Epstein, a Clinton supporter, Republican strategist Leslie Sanchez and John Dickerson, CNN political analyst and chief correspondent for slate.com. I wanted to get all those interest perfect. I'm looking for immediate reaction. We weren't quite sure what to make of that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well --
PHILLIPS: Looks like the four of you --
JAMAL SIMMONS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I'll start if you're ready.
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Jamal.
SIMMONS: Well, I think that the president wants to show solidarity and respect for the families. he should start by coming up with a plan for how we end the war in Iraq. He could have started by actually having a plan for how we go into Iraq and securing the country and so we wouldn't be in a situation that we are in today. So, just stopping playing golf is a nice gesture but I think people want to see something more substantive about the commander in chief.
PHILLIPS: Leslie.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Out of deep respect for the President, I think that the President acknowledges, something Ronald Reagan understood that these images have tremendous power and impact to the American electorate. There's a reason why Jenna Bush did not get married at the White House with all the ceremony because he has a, I think a deep respect for the men and women who are serving in uniform and the sacrifice that this country is making. So, I don't think he wants to put cross pressure there. I think he wants to show a sign of respect to people and an understanding of the mood of the country.
PHILLIPS: Julian.
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DemocratIC STRATEGIST: Images are important.
I agree with Leslie. It's an honorable sentiment and an honorable expression. It's contradictory with the other images of him recreating elsewhere either on the ranch in Texas or at the family compound in Maine. I also agree with Jamal though. I think if you forget about the political issue of Iraq, if you really want to show solidarity with the troops, clean up the awful messes happening in the veterans' hospital.
PHILLIPS: John, I want to see you, John, your reaction from this. Was it awkward to you, this moment?
JOHN DICKERSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It was a little awkward. He didn't come out and make a big deal about it. He was asked a question. You know, Mike Allen, a good reporter got a little news. There are going to be a lot of people who would probably think, you know, giving up golf is actually a pretty small sacrifice, but, you know, the President had a genuine feeling about this. And just had - you know, decided this is enough. I don't think it's that big a deal.
PHILLIPS: Final thought --
SANCHEZ: You know, to put it in context, it was just a tiny snippet to the rest of the interview. And the president has talked long and hard about what the country needs to do for our national security moving forward. So, it's just a personal piece of his mindset at that time.
EPSTEIN: Let's be optimistic. It's a good start for the president.
PHILLIPS: Now that the tables were clear. Jamal, Barack Obama, I mean, here we are talking about the President which is an awkward moment and here he is talking about not playing golf. I mean, it's a very controversial and unpopular war. Barack Obama is, you know, criticizing obviously Bush, McCain, putting them together. Is that all he has in his bag?
SIMMONS: If that's all he has got, it's like Larry Bird with his jump shot. It's all you need. You know, the reality is --
PHILLIPS: Let's see those three pointers. Barack Obama can shoot a three-pointer by the way. He and Larry Bird, I would like to see them on the court. But anyway, that's a whole other story, Jamal.
SIMMONS: The problem with John McCain is you have two John McCains on the record. You got the old John McCain from the old days when he was a maverick and then you got this sort of backsliding John McCain who has decided he's just like George Bush on taxes, just like George Bush on the war. He has cozied up to all these right wing religious guys who he was criticizing in his 2000 campaign. So, I think the American people are going to be faced with a real choice. But do they want four more years of George Bush or they want a real change with somebody like Barack Obama.
PHILLIPS: Final thought, Leslie.
SANCHEZ: I think that change -- there's devil in the details. It really matters what that change means. Is it positive or negative? It could be either.
PHILLIPS: Quickly Julian. I saw you.
EPSTEIN: I think Barack has to enlarge his game plan here. I think he's got to start talking more what Bill Clinton used to do. Jamal and I were talking about this. He could take any issue, education, here is five reasons why my plan is better than the other guys and in a way that relates to voters, particularly voters who he's weak with right now.
PHILLIPS: John, final thought.
DICKERSON: That's the heart of this blue collar thing is that he has this extraordinary message but he's not for a very long time, and they've been working on this almost at the length of their campaign, been able to take this high-minded reform message and tie it to the way people live their daily lives. And give them something that they can put in their pocket and that's been a problem he's had throughout this whole campaign. So, he's got to work on that.
PHILLIPS: John, Leslie, Julian, Jamal, thank you so much. We'll talk to you again. All right. John.
ROBERTS: 42 minutes after the hour. New Mexico governor and Obama supporter Bill Richardson with a warning about the Democrats' blue state base. We'll ask him why he says it's slipping away with every day Clinton remains in the race.
Plus, blue collar voters, they have been slow to back Barack Obama, but his campaign says it's not worried. We'll tell you the group of voters that they say will lead him to victory come November.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: There's been a lot of talk about Barack Obama's weakness among working class voters but his campaign begs to differ. The Obama camp released a memo before the polls closed yesterday saying Obama is "running stronger among independent voters than any winning presidential candidate since 1988 and is significantly outperforming Senator Clinton among these voters as well in general election polling." The memo also said it's a myth that Obama can't win enough white votes saying that his support is somewhat similar to what Al Gore and John Kerry had in head to head contests in 2000 and 2004.
But is Senator McCain already taking a piece of the blue state base? New Mexico governor and Obama supporter Bill Richardson says McCain is making gains because the Democratic race is taking way too long.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Right now, we have Senator McCain campaigning in Democratic states like Oregon, talking about Democratic issues like global warming, taking votes away from us while we're still in this battle for the nomination which it's almost inevitable that it's going to be Senator Obama. We need to come together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And John is going to interview Governor Richardson coming up in the next hour, 8:25 Eastern time.
ROBERTS: Well, it was a very big night for Hillary Clinton. She billed the win in the West Virginia primary as proof positive that the race is not over. And with another must-win just around the corner, the cash-strapped campaign needs money and Clinton wasn't shy about asking for it during her speech last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am more determined than ever to carry on this campaign until everyone has had a chance to make their voices heard. I want to commend Senator Obama and his supporters. This continues to be a hard-fought race from one end of our country to the other, and, yes, we've had a few dust-ups along the way, but our commitment to bring America new leadership that will renew America's promise means that we have always stood together on what is most important. Now, tonight I need your help to continue this journey. We are in the home stretch. There are only three weeks left in the final contests, and your support can make the difference between winning and losing, so I hope you'll go to hillaryclinton.com and support our campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And Senator Clinton will need the money to pay her bills. While a senior campaign adviser to the campaign says they have enough cash and the fund-raising is doing well, the bottom line is her stack of debts is reaching even higher. Her campaign now $20 million in debt. A figure that's got Jay Leno suggesting that Clinton is now the lady in the rented pants suit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JAY LENO": Hillary's campaign $20 million in debt. $20 million. Which proves if anything she could be president. Yes, there you go. In fact, money is so tight in her campaign, I understand today she was wearing a rented pants suit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: The pants suits look good. She's got the colors down that's for sure.
ROBERTS: Definitely does.
PHILLIPS: Well, still to come in AMERICAN MORNING, we're going to check our "Quick Vote" question of the morning.
ROBERTS: And what does the prolonged race for the Democratic nomination mean for the Republicans? We'll talk to CNN contributor and McCain supporter Bill Bennett just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And our "quick vote" question this morning. If Barack Obama can't win the swing states now, can he win them in the general election. Right now 55 percent of you say yes, 45 ay no. Go to cnn.com/am to vote.
ROBERTS: We have also been asking for your e-mails on this. We have been getting some great responses. Kelly from Pittsburgh writes "in an election cycle that's been full of unexpected twists and turns, I think it goes without saying that Hillary should not count on the swing states to do the job for her in November. Just as she shouldn't discount what they will or will not do for Barack Obama."
PHILLIPS: And Kimberly from Ohio writes, West Virginia made a loud and clear statement. Hillary can win the big states and blue collar voters. If the Democrats hope to win in the fall, it's going to be Hillary. If not, I'll stay at home, save my gas, and not vote."
ROBERTS: Well, from Labelle from Stone Mountain, Georgia, "I think that there is no question that Barack can win the big states and when Hillary is out of the campaign with all of her dirty tricks, the Democratic Party will you night around Obama."
PHILLIPS: And Louise in Rich Hill, Missouri says "Obama is in deep trouble with the white voters. He did not win one county in West Virginia. That ought to tell the superdelegates something. I'm voting for the person who can carry the general election in November and that's Hillary Clinton. Head to CNN.com/am to e-mail us. We'll read more of your e-mails in the next hour right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Lunch pail politics.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For two decades he has supported policies that have shifted the burden away from special interests and on to working families.
ROBERTS: Barack Obama loses a battle for working class voters. John McCain sees red in key swing states. Bill Bennett, James Carville, Bill Richardson, and a $20 million superdelegate for sale. Join us live.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: So what does Hillary Clinton's win last night mean for Republicans? Bill Bennett, CNN contributor, he supports Senator John McCain. Bill, good morning to you. Good morning to all your listeners as we simulcast on your show, "Morning in America."
BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hi, Kyra. How are you?
PHILLIPS: I'm doing alright. A little tired this morning. It's been busy. It's good though. It's keeping us in the game.
BENNETT: You bet. You and Hillary Clinton in the game.
PHILLIPS: Oh, boy. I think she's got a much tougher game to play than I do right now, Bill, that's for sure. But you're a supporter of John McCain, but I do want to know who do you think is going to take this Democratic nomination?
BENNETT: Well, you know, everyone says that it's, of course, the conventional wisdom and it's probably the case that it will be Barack Obama. The numbers appear they're daunting, and it seems inevitable, but this was a wallop last night. I mean, she really walloped him. Remember we were talking Kyra, 20, 30 points. This was a 41-point victory. I was looking back over the 1980 stuff with Kennedy and Carter. Remember, Kennedy was winning primaries while Carter was on his way to the nomination. I don't recall anything quite this big happening. So, it's a signal, it's a marker. Will it change things? I think Kentucky will look probably like West Virginia, but could it possibly, possibly change Oregon? We'll see. It puts the question out there and we'll now see how many people take it up.
PHILLIPS: Why do you think it was such a big win? It's interesting you point out history there in talking about the other candidates years ago. What happened here?
BENNETT: Well, there's West Virginia loyalty to the Clintons. West Virginia voted for Bill Clinton twice. When Bill Clinton won twice. He carried West Virginia. By the way, when George W. Bush won twice, he carried West Virginia. So, it is an interesting kind of state in that regard. So, the loyalty to the Clintons. Second, the economic situation. That's the heart of her message, and that's what people responded to, and then unease for any number of reasons about Barack Obama.
One of the problems Barack Obama had is looks three months ago as if he were the candidate who was transcending race, and now in the last couple of months with the Reverend Wright stuff and other things, race came just storming into this campaign in a big way.
PHILLIPS: All right.
BENNETT: The other thing is I have to tell you, I think she is so much on message. She is so clear, and the message she's sending is a different one than she had four months ago.
PHILLIPS: All right. Let's get back to Senator McCain, the candidate that you are supporting, and hear what Senator Obama said about him yesterday. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And his only answer to the problems created by George Bush's policies is give them another four years to fail. Just look at where he stands, and you will see that a vote for John McCain is a vote for George Bush's third term.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Do you agree that John McCain should continue or should he make bigger efforts to disassociate himself from the Bush administration?
BENNETT: Well, yes and no. The irony here, Kyra, is that John McCain dramatically veered off George Bush policy two days ago with his cap in trade speech about the environment. Clearly not a continuation of Bush policy. He did so to his detriment in regard to a lot of conservatives who were not happy with that speech at all. I have to tell you, John McCain is having some problems with the base. He's having some -- you know, the romance began once it looked like he was inevitable, but now people are getting worried again. That's very much what I hear, but I'll tell you, people do not buy the notion that he's George Bush. They understand he's different from George Bush. I don't think that's a great selling point for the Democrats.
A better selling point is for them to suggest is this really the guy who believes what you believe? And that's what -- because that's what a lot of conservatives are worried about. He still has to shore up the base, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right. And in shoring up the base, I want to know, talking about believing in something, who do you believe will be the next VP? Mike Huckabee supporters have created this Web site now, Bill, huckforamerica.com asking Senator McCain to pick him for VP. This is a part of what's on that Web site. "There's no better choice than Mike Huckabee with a great combination of core beliefs and fantastic communication skills. He would be a great asset to the GOP ticket and should be your choice for vice president." Do you think that's a possibility?
BENNETT: It's a possibility. I'll tell you we got our ear here to the ground. We talk to people every day. We don't have any idea who it's going to be to be perfectly honest.
PHILLIPS: And have you heard the Huckabee name?
BENNETT: We've heard the Huckabee name. The names we're hearing more often are Mitt Romney, which seemed unlikely but I think possible. We hear Tim Pawlenty and lately we've heard a lot one of my favorite people, Paul Ryan, a congressman from Wisconsin. Very strong on the economic sides of things, the economy, and John McCain could use some shoring up there and he's also in his late 30s, which is a big help.
PHILLIPS: Bill Bennett, CNN contributor, host of "Morning in America." Good to see you this morning. Thanks, Bill.
BENNETT: Thanks for joining us. Thanks, Kyra.
ROBERTS: One minute now to the top of the hour. She is coming back again. But Hillary Clinton is still short on delegates and running out of time, even after a decisive win last night in West Virginia's primary. The final tally 67 percent to just 26 percent for Barack Obama, a blowout made possible by her working-class base. A look at the state wide breakdown shows almost a clean sweep, almost entirely Clinton country in West Virginia. The place is field with her blue collar backers. And last night, she made it clear that she's in this race for the long haul.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe our party is strong enough for this challenge. I am strong enough for it. You know I never give up. I'll keep coming back. And I'll stand with you as long as you stand with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: James Carville is a CNN contributor and a Clinton supporter. He joins us this morning from Hartford, Connecticut. James, good to see you.
