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Nancy Grace
House of Yahweh Leader Hawkins Faces Multiple Charges
Aired May 20, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Exclusive. An ex-cop and rockabilly singer known as Buffalo Bill Hawkins until the `80s, now recognized as a prophet of one of the most secretive cults in this country until now, now known as Yisrayl Hawkins, the self-proclaimed prophet reported to have up to 35 wives and now facing charges of promoting bigamy and forcing long hours of hard labor on children as young as 11 years old, all while spreading messages of the world`s end by nuclear war.
Tonight, allegations of child sex abuse, welfare fraud, three mysterious deaths also emerge from behind the guarded compound gates, the alleged new threat to women and children just 120 miles from the biggest child protective bust in U.S. history, that bust rescuing 462 children, 100 women, where alleged systematic marriage and childbirth forced on girls as young as 13.
Tonight, House of Yahweh leader Yisrayl Hawkins and his attorney with us live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yisrayl Hawkins is the leader of extremist religious sect the House of Yahweh. Many accuse the sect of supporting polygamy and underage marriages. Now the man who once predicted the birth of a "nuclear baby" is facing criminal charges, Hawkins charged with bigamy and violating child labor laws, charges that could land Hawkins behind bars for the rest of his life.
HAWKINS: The nuclear baby is given to us as pains (INAUDIBLE) it`ll come on as pains on a woman with child. And it -- and this nuclear baby is for a part -- a fourth part of the earth, not just any fourth part, the fourth part of the earth in and around the great river Euphrates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a quiet west Texas community in shock, pit bulls viciously attacking a 7-year-old boy just yards from his own home, the little boy walking along a rural road after playing with friends. Four pit bulls surround the 1st-grader, mauling him to death. Police reveal the pit bulls allowed to run free, no leashes, no chain, the gate wide open. Tonight, why no arrest? We want answers!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 7-year-old Texas boy brutally mauled to death by two pit bulls. Tanner Joshua Monk was pronounced dead at the scene, only a couple hundred feet from his home, after investigators say the two dogs viciously attacked him. The boy was discovered by a woman driving by, who noticed the child lying on the side of the road. Both pit bulls were shot by deputies after they became very aggressive towards the officers. The sheriff`s investigation and test results on the pit bulls will be presented to a grand jury to determine what charges should be filed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This tragic accident is now a wake-up call for many parents in Breckenridge, who say they`ll be more cautious when it comes to their kids and canines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I make my kids leery of dogs. You know, I tell them, you know, Don`t go close to that dog because it might bite.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Exclusive. After the biggest child protective bust in U.S. history, just 120 miles to the northeast, another alleged new threat to women and children, a self-proclaimed prophet reported to have up to 35 wives now facing multiple charges ranging from bigamy to forcing child labor on children as young as 11 years old. The House of Yahweh leader Yisrayl Hawkins is with us live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAWKINS: Yahweh is the allowing sin to take place. He`s allowing this nuclear war to take place to show you what causes suffering, sickness, disease, defilement, confusion, violence, hatred, wars and death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yisrayl Hawkins could face up to 20 years in prison if found guilty of performing polygamist marriages. It is the House of Yahweh. This group is so much darker, so much more deadly. This group is more along the lines of a Jim Jones. They`re more along the lines of a David Koresh, the end of world, Kool-Aid cowboys (ph) who are going to kill all themselves because that`s what their master leader prophesied about the whole thing.
HAWKINS: The famine now that is taking place throughout the world, it`s spreading throughout the world -- now, this is one of the things that the prophecies predict for this time period, along with this nuclear baby that will kill a third part of man over a fourth part of the earth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You heard him talk about killing (ph) the end of the world. That`s the "nuclear baby" he`s talking about. Basically, what this prophet has been saying is that the end of the world is coming and he needs to stockpile supplies on this compound.
HAWKINS: He`s going to save one fifth of the earth`s population, and he shows that that one fifth of the earth`s population will have repented and started keeping the laws of Yahweh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us tonight, speaking out live -- we are taking your calls, as well -- is the leader of the House of Yahweh, Mr. Yisrayl Hawkins. Along with him, veteran trial lawyer, his attorney, John Young. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
JOHN YOUNG, ATTORNEY FOR YISRAYL HAWKINS: Good evening, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m fine.
YISRAYL HAWKINS, LEADER, HOUSE OF YAHWEH: Thank you.
GRACE: To Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Hawkins, I have with me several charges that you are facing, including promoting bigamy, bigamy, I understand that there are charges of child labor, as well, children kept out of school and forced to work in the fields, in your butter manufacturing and many different areas within your compound. How do you respond to those charges, sir?
HAWKINS: The only thing that`s taking place here, really, is persecution of a religion that`s old -- the oldest religion on the face of the earth. Now, if any church in Abilene would have -- would teach agriculture, you know, it would be classified as agriculture. But if we have hands-on training in the House of Yahweh and we teach agriculture, it`s child labor. This is the way they have twisted things...
GRACE: OK...
HAWKINS: ... around to make...
GRACE: Well, Mr. Hawkins...
HAWKINS: ... the House of Yahweh look evil.
GRACE: Mr. Hawkins, there`s a big difference...
HAWKINS: Nancy, this was prophesied.
GRACE: Hold on. Before we get into the prophecies...
HAWKINS: No. No.
GRACE: ... I have a question. Having children work in the fields from 8:00 in the morning until well in the afternoon and not go to school is not the same as taking a home economics class, sir.
HAWKINS: But I`m telling you this is not true. The children, they do go to school in the House of Yahweh. They go to school the full time. I think it`s from 8:00 to 4:00 every day, except in summer months, when the schools are out. And yes, they have fund-raising projects in the House of Yahweh. They have agriculture taught. They have -- they can raise their own garden, you know? But it`s never child labor, as they have pictured it to be.
GRACE: What do you make of the -- what do you make of the informants who have told police that you have children out working in the fields all day long as young as 11 years old, when they should be in school? Why would they -- are they persecuting you, as well?
HAWKINS: They -- they`re being a part of the whole system that is persecuting the last days prophesied work (ph) of Yahweh, yes.
GRACE: That brings me to a very interesting question. I recall that at one juncture, I believe you said that the end of the earth was going to come in the year 2000. Then it was upped to this. I have your book with me, by Yisrayl B. Hawkins, "The Explosion of Sin, Birth of the Nuclear Baby." Now, as I recall, you predicted the end of the world via a "nuclear baby" that was to occur on -- in September of 2006. -- September 12, as I recall. Well, that has passed. Then it moved up to 2007. It`s currently 2008. What happened to the nuclear baby?
HAWKINS: The -- the nuclear baby was prophesied to take place at that time. And if you`ve got the articles -- now, we published that book before the date was to take place. But after we published the book then, the news articles started coming in, showing the nuclear pains of a baby, or a nuclear war that is going to take place. We have the articles now, and if you -- I don`t know if you`ve got those news articles or not, but they showed the exact dates that the Scripture showed, where the...
GRACE: Well, you did the prophesying, sir. It was your prophecy. What happened?
HAWKINS: ... the nuclear war was attempted. The nuclear war was attempted, but it didn`t take place. Now, Revelations 7 shows that Yahweh himself held that war back for a time period. But it`s -- Nancy, this is going to take place, and it`s taking place right now.
GRACE: My question is, you convinced your followers...
HAWKINS: They are getting ready for nuclear war, OK?
GRACE: Yes, I`m sure they are. But you convinced your followers that there would be a nuclear war in 2006 and 2007. As I recall, you brought it up to an occur in 2000. It hasn`t happened. What became of the prophecy? How were you so misled by Yahweh?
HAWKINS: I wasn`t misled. And I didn`t mislead the people, either. If you will -- the nuclear war is shown in chapter 6 of Revelation. Now, it`s shown in chapter 9...
GRACE: Sir, I`m not arguing about Revelation.
HAWKINS: ... chapter 7...
GRACE: I`m not arguing about Revelations. I`m not arguing about John the Revelator. I am asking you about your prophecy. But if you`re not going to answer...
HAWKINS: My prophecies are coming to pass. Yes.
GRACE: Hey...
HAWKINS: They`re coming to pass now.
GRACE: How long is the gestation period on this nuclear baby? I mean, it`s been a long time since 2000, 2006, 2007.
HAWKINS: No. No. No, 2006 -- September the 6th, 2007 is when the conception started. And of course...
GRACE: OK.
HAWKINS: ... Yahweh held back the nuclear war, of course. Yahweh held back the nuclear war...
GRACE: OK...
HAWKINS: ... and he`s holding it back. But it won`t be held back for long.
GRACE: Let me ask you something other than the prophecies that I assume you are -- you are interpreting from Revelations. I would like to ask you about the $2.2 million of property in your name. How did that happen?
HAWKINS: I`ve been -- I`ve been in the rent business for about 40 years in Abilene.
GRACE: The what business?
HAWKINS: And of course I had -- rent.
GRACE: Uh-huh.
HAWKINS: Rent.
GRACE: Yes.
HAWKINS: At one -- I don`t know how many rent houses we have at this time, but at one time, I know we had 107. But that`s where the money came from to start the work of Yahweh. In fact, the sanctuary at Yula (ph) was built with that -- with rent money. The ground in Abilene was bought with it. The first House of Yahweh was built there with rent money. And then the property at Yula was bought and paid for, the sanctuary built for it. Yahweh has blessed me in business. I pay my taxes, so you can get my tax returns.
GRACE: My question is, if all of this land is being used to glorify Yahweh -- which, of course, is an Old Testament term for God -- why is it all in your name?
HAWKINS: It started out as being that way, and of course, I would be glad to transfer it over to the House of Yahweh name, if that`s what anyone wanted. It`s just a matter of business. I buy and sell property all the time, have been doing this for 40 years in Abilene, as well as preaching the message of Yahweh for over 40 years now.
GRACE: I want to...
HAWKINS: But my business has grown along with the work.
GRACE: Interesting that you mention buying and selling. Sounds like a lot of buying and not a whole lot of selling because that`s $2.2 million worth of real estate in your name. And I`m just wondering if any of your congregation`s money has been used to buy all that land up -- that`s that I know of, the $2.2 million.
HAWKINS: I have had to borrow money from time to time, yes, but I always pay my bills, so -- but we -- we have bought -- we have sold a lot of property here, and a lot of the property is still being sold right now, you know. We buy and sell property all the time.
GRACE: Mr. Hawkins...
HAWKINS: There`s many of our members that have us looking for property for them. And we buy property and cut it up and sell it into smaller pieces for our members, yes.
GRACE: Mr. Hawkins, I know that you preach I believe it is the 613 rules, laws.
HAWKINS: 613.
GRACE: And I`m just wondering...
HAWKINS: 613.
GRACE: ... is divorce one of those? Is that allowed within the House of Yahweh?
HAWKINS: No. Yahweh says he hates divorce. He doesn`t recognize divorce. He has a peaceful solution...
GRACE: Well, then, what about your divorce?
HAWKINS: I`ve never filed for a divorce myself.
GRACE: My records show that you did file...
HAWKINS: Someone else did, I know...
GRACE: ... in 1976 from your wife, Rosabelle Bolding (ph).
HAWKINS: Say again?
GRACE: Well, maybe I`m wrong, but according to my records, you were married in about 1952 to Rosabelle Bolding. After that, you had four children with a lady named Darlene (ph), and then you filed -- in `76, four years after your children with Darlene, you filed for a divorce from Rosabelle Bolding. Is that incorrect?
HAWKINS: Couldn`t find the -- we couldn`t find the person. She ran off. And yes, there was a marriage in my younger days there and a very bad mistake that was made.
GRACE: So there was a divorce?
HAWKINS: I was quite a sinner in my younger days, yes.
GRACE: Sir, with that I cannot argue. And I am the first to admit to being a world-class sinner. But what I`m trying to find out right now is about these bigamy charges and whether divorce is tolerated within your house of worship. You`re telling me, no, is that correct?
HAWKINS: That`s right. We don`t -- we -- in fact, we -- we don`t allow things like that. That is, we speak against it. We don`t -- we don`t enforce it. We just speak against it, like we do fornication, adultery, sin of any kind.
GRACE: I want to ask you, sir...
HAWKINS: Sin is breaking of Yahweh`s laws, by the way.
GRACE: I want to ask you about two children, one born on February 25, `07, one born on June 25, `07, four months apart. One mothers is Melisa Samantha Charles (ph), age 23. The other child is born to a Melea Hawkins, age 19. Are those your children?
HAWKINS: I would love to discuss that with you, but my lawyer forbids me to do it at this time, but...
GRACE: Is that true, Mr. Young? Is that true, Mr. Young?
YOUNG: (INAUDIBLE) that is true. I think that the information that`s contained in those arrest warrants and the affidavits filed by the county attorney here has not been validated. It`s not been...
GRACE: No, I`m asking you...
YOUNG: ... investigated or...
GRACE: ... why can`t he answer? That`s my question right now. Because if these two children are his children, then from what I understand under House of Yahweh, it is impermissible to father children outside of marriage. You got a 19-year-old pregnant and 23-year-old pregnant. Is he the father?
YOUNG: Well, and I -- you know, whether or not he`s the father, the question that you`re really are asking, Is he committing bigamy? And you know, it`s against the...
GRACE: Hey, look, you don`t have to get married...
YOUNG: It`s against the rules of the church.
GRACE: ... to get pregnant. You don`t have to get married to get pregnant.
GRACE: Absolutely. You...
GRACE: We all know that, whether we condone it or not.
HAWKINS: The veteran prosecutor that you are, you`ve made my point for me, Nancy. That`s exactly right. You don`t have to be married to get pregnant. And I concur with that. And I suspect that once...
GRACE: Clock is ticking. Clock is ticking. Can you answer me?
YOUNG: Once we`ve investigated...
GRACE: Are these his children? He`s got to investigate whether these are his children?
YOUNG: Once we -- we don`t know who these ladies are that are making these claims. We don`t know where these...
GRACE: You don`t know Melissa Samantha Charles or...
YOUNG: ... claims are coming from.
GRACE: ... Melea Hawkins?
YOUNG: I do not know either one of those people, and neither of those people have been available...
GRACE: Mr. Hawkins...
YOUNG: ... or made themselves available to...
GRACE: Mr. Hawkins, do you know...
YOUNG: ... be interviewed or to talk with me.
GRACE: ... these ladies? Do you know these ladies, Mr. Hawkins?
HAWKINS: I can`t -- I can`t talk about that case right now, but...
GRACE: No, I`m asking you...
HAWKINS: ... I can talk to you about religion.
GRACE: ... if you know them, if you even know them. Are you denying you even know them?
HAWKINS: I told you I can`t talk about that. My lawyer`s just told you, too, Nancy. I`m sorry.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAWKINS: I was born and hidden, hidden as Yahweh -- as the Scripture said. Yahweh hid me. The prophets actually show me, my name, my brother`s name as the two witnesses and show where we would be born, what we would teach, that we would be hidden from the -- for so many years, and then we would establish that House of Yahweh. And then the House of Yahweh, it shows our names in the Scriptures and in the hidden codes. All of these things are shown in prophecy in the hidden code.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us tonight, a very special guest, the Reverend Yisrayl Hawkins. He`s the leader of the House of Yahweh, up until this juncture, one of the most secretive religions within our country, but now facing charges of bigamy and child labor. He is speaking out, along with his attorney, John Young.
Mr. Hawkins, thank you for being with us. Mr. Hawkins, I noticed that some of your sermons warn your congregation that the outside world is dangerous and unclean. You go so far as to have guards outside your compound and a lot of your worship services. Now, from my understanding, you guys are a form of Christianity, but Christ actually went in to those areas that were unclean or dangerous or unseemly in order to win souls. Why are you so secretive?
HAWKINS: We`re not really secretive. I`ve been on the air for almost 20 years now. But the world is so unclean right now, Nancy, that you can get STDs from touching doorknobs. You should know this because the articles come out daily on 125 different sexually...
GRACE: You know, Christ did not worry about that...
HAWKINS: ... transmitted diseases...
GRACE: ... when he went to go save the lepers. Why do you have armed guards outside your compound walls?
HAWKINS: The -- the armed guards was -- there is no armed guards at the House of Yahweh. Never has been an armed guard at the House of Yahweh.
GRACE: How about guards?
HAWKINS: Where did you get that?
GRACE: How about guards trained in martial arts?
HAWKINS: There are -- no. No one trained in martial arts. Who told you...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: With us tonight, Mr. Yisrayl Hawkins, leader of the House of Yahweh. He is facing about 100 years behind bars on charges of promoting bigamy. Also with him, a veteran trial lawyer, his attorney, Mr. John Young.
Mr. Hawkins, thank you for being with us.
HAWKINS: Thank you.
GRACE: Right now -- yes, sir. Right now, who is your current wife?
HAWKINS: I was told not to give that name because of the persecution that the news media has brought on the House of Yahweh, and not to give the name of my wife or our children.
GRACE: What became...
HAWKINS: We`re living under scary times right here right now because of the severe persecution...
GRACE: Well, apparently...
HAWKINS: ... that also came against the savior that you mentioned a while ago.
GRACE: A former wife of yours, Kay (ph), has stated that you began preaching polygamy after an affair with a church secretary. Is that true?
HAWKINS: I started preaching against polygamy at that time. I`ve never -- I never endorsed it and I`ve never encouraged it. In fact, we tell people, Do not get married at this time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The House of Yahweh. Many call it an extremist religious cult. Members say they`re just misunderstood and persecuted for their religious beliefs, even giving a third of their income to Yahweh. The House of Yahweh says they don`t practice polygamy, but prosecutors say they have documents to the contrary.
Now, leader Yisrayl Hawkins charged with bigamy and violating child labor laws. Charges that could land Hawkins behind bars for the rest of his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAWKINS: Yahweh is allowing sin to take place. He`s allowing this nuclear war to take place to show you what causes sin -- what causes suffering, sickness, disease, defilement, confusion, violence, hatred, wars and death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another sect elder, Yedidiyah Hawkins, heads to court this summer facing charges of sexually abusing a teen girl, bigamy and welfare fraud.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us tonight in an exclusive appearance is the Reverend Yisrayl Hawkins. He is the leader of the House of Yahweh now facing up to 100 years behind bars for promoting bigamy and allegations of child labor. Also with him, no stranger to a courtroom, his attorney John Young.
Mr. Hawkins, you have been quoted as saying there is, "Nothing wrong according to the laws of Yahweh with having more than one wife."
Is that true?
HAWKINS: That`s true. The laws of -- Abraham had more than one wife. Joseph, the father of the savior, had more than one wife. In fact, the savior had earlier brothers, older brothers than he from a marriage at the same time. So -- the Bible does promote this, but the apostle said that we are to obey man`s laws and that`s the reason I do not condone this in my teaching.
I preach against it. I preach against having more than one wife.
GRACE: Then who is Rosa Bell Bolding (ph)? Who is Dawn? Who is Kay Hawkins (ph)? And who is your present wife? And who are these women that now, purportedly, each four months apart, have given birth to your children?
HAWKINS: You`re going to be greatly surprised when you find the truth on this and it`s going to come out very soon --
GRACE: Please surprise me now.
HAWKINS: -- but I can`t talk about that. I can`t.
GRACE: Sir, no offense but I find it very disturbing --
HAWKINS: I`ve give my word to my attorney that I will not talk about this.
GRACE: And if you married someone, you gave your oath before God that you would stick with them through thick and thin.
And my question is, why are you so reticent, in fact, refuse to even give the name of your wife?
HAWKINS: Because of the severe danger that I would put her in right now if I gave her name --
GRACE: What danger is that?
HAWKINS: -- or the name of my children.
And my attorney has said do not do this because we have had threats on our lives because I am teaching that sin causes all of these curses that we`re now suffering.
GRACE: What curses are those? That you`re under indictment?
HAWKINS: Over 100 -- STDS, the world going into famine right now, the nuclear baby that is about to be turned loose.
GRACE: So you espouse that sin -- that God sends us disease, holocaust, nuclear war because we have sinned?
HAWKINS: We are the ones that are causing this to come upon ourselves because we -- Isaiah 241, one through six, if you`ll read that, it says because you have changed the laws, transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant, because of this, the curse has devoured the Earth.
GRACE: OK. I want to talk to you about Child Protective Services investigating 20 cases involving Yahweh members, including two children, possibly four, being removed from one of your elder`s home -- Yedidiyah Hawkins. He is charged with sexually molesting a 14-year-old girl.
Is he still an elder in the House of Yahweh?
HAWKINS: I think you`ll find out that this is a bunch of -- bunch more lies that`s just being told persecute Yahweh`s House, and that`s not really -- that`s not really the issues. The issues are they wanted to persecute Yahweh`s House so they come up with all these allegations --
GRACE: So who is they? Do you think the 14-year-old girl is lying? His own step-daughter is lying?
HAWKINS: I don`t want to comment on that because I told my lawyer I would not comment on these cases.
GRACE: OK. Do you think that --
HAWKINS: But very soon now --
GRACE: Is it going --
HAWKINS: -- Very soon now I`ll come back on your show once this is proven false. I`ll come back on your show and then maybe we can talk about what Yahweh has in plan for this Earth.
GRACE: Well, I`m more concerned right now about the 20 cases of child abuse and a 14-year-old girl claiming one of your elders, House of Yahweh elders, has been molesting her for years.
So is that a no comment?
HAWKINS: There is no child abuse in the House of Yahweh -- period. There is none. We love our children and everyone in the House of Yahweh loves their children and protects them to no end.
GRACE: Does Yedidiyah Hawkins -- Yedidiyah Hawkins, have access to children within your congregation?
HAWKINS: Does he have access to them?
GRACE: Yes.
HAWKINS: Yedidiyah Hawkins was a teacher in the House of Yahweh before he was arrested and put in jail. He didn`t have access to any of the other children except his own as far as I know.
GRACE: Sir, I`ve got a question. It`s been reported that you have many domiciles, homes. In these various homes, are there children?
HAWKINS: I have many rent houses and I`m sure some of the people that rent those houses -- I still have rent houses. I don`t know how many. But I`m sure some of the people that rent those houses have children, yes.
GRACE: Are those children yours?
HAWKINS: No. No. They belong to those people that live there, that rent the houses.
I know that they make out like that all these rent houses are my wives`, but they`re not. I only have one wife.
GRACE: Would that be Rosa Bell, Dawn or Kay?
HAWKINS: Rosa Bell, you know, she disappeared and I don`t know -- you know -- we were living in sin at that time and there`s, you know, that was --
GRACE: Then why did she file for divorce?
HAWKINS: -- I was 19-years-old and --
What`s that?
GRACE: If you were living in sin --
HAWKINS: Why did I file for divorce?
GRACE: A divorce means you have been married.
HAWKINS: We couldn`t find her and I didn`t want to be married to two women at the same time and I did want to get married. And that`s the reason --
GRACE: Sir, why do you wear a yarmulke? I`ve observed you wearing a yarmulke in some of your televised sermons.
HAWKINS: The talete (ph)? The talete stands for the 613 laws of Yahweh that govern our lives.
GRACE: Are you Jewish?
HAWKINS: Yes.
GRACE: Because your brother says you are Dutch and Cherokee.
HAWKINS: My brother said what?
GRACE: That you are Dutch and Cherokee.
HAWKINS: I couldn`t understand what you were talking about but yes, I am Jewish. I follow the Old Testament laws of the scriptures --
GRACE: OK.
HAWKINS: -- which agree -- which agree with the New Testament.
GRACE: I agree with you. Which leads me to my next question.
It`s my understanding that you are a Christian, or interpretation of Christianity. Do you recognize Easter and Christmas and if not, why?
HAWKINS: Christmas is the birthday of a pagan sun god and that`s the reason December the 25th was chosen for that date. It`s condemned in Jeremiah the tenth chapter.
GRACE: What about Easter?
HAWKINS: Easter, the savior did not rise on Easter Sunday. In fact, the only sign that he gave that he was the true messiah was that he would be in the grave three days and three nights as Jonah was in the fish`s belly three days and three nights.
You cannot get three days and three nights from Good Friday evening to Sunday morning, at sun rise. Try to get that.
GRACE: Revered Hawkins, why do you ask your --
HAWKINS: Now that should show you that something is wrong.
GRACE: -- congregates to pledge one third of their income to the House of Yahweh? And what do you do with all that money?
HAWKINS: They -- I do not ask that of anyone. I pay tithe myself, that`s 10 percent of my earnings plus offerings. Now, in the -- in the third and sixth year -- we`re going off the air again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAWKINS: The famine now that is -- that is taking a place -- is taking place throughout the world. It`s spreading throughout the world. Now, this is one of the things that the prophesies predict for this time period, along with this nuclear baby that will kill a third part of man, over a fourth part of the Earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With us tonight, Mr. Yisrayl Hawkins, leader of the House of Yahweh, along with his attorney, John Young. We are taking your calls. Out to Janet in Texas. Hi, Janet.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What is your question, dear?
CALLER: Well, I really have a question more for the lawyer.
GRACE: OK.
CALLER: My family is a member of the House of Yahweh, and so I have a question for the lawyer. Psychiatrists, doctors, counselors and ministers usually have malpractice insurance because the law usually holds them at least partially responsible for the things that they teach.
GRACE: What is your question, dear?
CALLER: And so my question is, shouldn`t Yisrayl Hawkins be held partially responsible for, like, the death of Beah (ph) and the destruction he`s wreaked on so many lives?
GRACE: What about it, John Young?
YOUNG: Well, I suppose -- I suppose it depends on how one defines responsibility within the context of religion. I`m not aware of any statute or any case that holds a pastor or a preacher liable for conduct that his parishioners engage in based upon the doctrines of the church.
GRACE: OK. So you`re saying he`s not responsible. There are three death that have occurred on the compound. A 7-year-old girl in 2003. In 2006, a woman died during childbirth. Her husband claims she was denied treatment. And a one-month-old died of malnutrition and asphyxiation. No charges have been filed in that.
HAWKINS: None of that was on House of Yahweh grounds.
GRACE: Were those House of Yahweh...
YOUNG: I`m sorry.
HAWKINS: None of that was on House of Yahweh grounds.
GRACE: Were those House of Yahweh followers?
YOUNG: That I don`t know, Nancy. I have heard -- I know there`s a civil suit pending as to the death of the mother.
GRACE: Right. I just announced that.
YOUNG: And I suppose those things will be...
HAWKINS: No, she wasn`t a member of the House of Yahweh.
YOUNG: I suppose those things will be determined in the civil lawsuit...
GRACE: I`m sure they will be.
YOUNG: ... but...
GRACE: Out to the lines. David in Wisconsin. Hi, David.
CALLER: Hello.
GRACE: What is your question, dear, very quickly?
CALLER: Well, I was on the Web site, on your guest Web site today, and he`s making a claim that global warming is caused by STDs, and I just wanted to ask him about that.
GRACE: What about it, Mr. Hawkins? Global warming caused by STDs? Sexually transmitted diseases?
HAWKINS: Yes. That`s exactly true. The firmament is being destroyed by STDs at this time. And if -- the scientists are checking this right now.
GRACE: What scientists?
HAWKINS: They`re on -- I can`t give you their names, but they`re checking it right now. They have got samples of the air already from different heights, and they`re going after this information right now that we have announced is actually a result of global warming. That`s what the scripture shows. The scripture shows that our sins have reached into the heavens, and our sins have actually -- are actually causing all of these curses that we`re experiencing now.
GRACE: Including the greenhouse effect.
HAWKINS: Including global warming, yes. You will soon see...
GRACE: OK. To Dee in Delaware. Hi, Dee.
HAWKINS: ... the results of that come out.
GRACE: What is your question, dear?
CALLER: Yes. I have a question. I`m wondering why Mr. Hawkins believes that it`s all right to -- the child labor issues regarding children and as far as keeping them out of school. Am I correct that`s what one of the accusations was?
GRACE: That is what the accusation is, up to 40 children as young as 11. Now, Mr. Hawkins, if I were charged with that, I would be very, very disturbed. You, however, are smiling, and that suggests to me that you are not disturbed about it. Why?
HAWKINS: No. First off, we don`t have any child labor going on in the House of Yahweh. And second off, we do not keep our children out of school. Our children...
GRACE: OK. So you`re denying it.
HAWKINS: ... in the House of Yahweh -- we have children that -- yes. We have children at 3 years old that can read this Bible right here or any book.
GRACE: I appreciate that, but what I`m really worried about is long days of hard labor as in the allegations.
And very quickly to Tammy in Utah.
HAWKINS: No such thing.
GRACE: Hi, Tammy, what`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I`m so glad about your babies. They`re so beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: Here`s a question. Maybe Mr. Hawkins can answer this question.
GRACE: OK.
CALLER: What kind of satisfaction does he get out of controlling supposedly his -- not his wives -- and these children? I mean, this is ridiculous. I am ashamed to be a citizen of this country if a person is doing this.
GRACE: Well, Tammy, I want to turn that around on you, and let`s be proud -- let`s be proud of being a citizen in a country where there are courts of law that seek justice.
And before I even throw that to Mr. Hawkins -- I know his attorney`s not going to let him answer that either. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
And very quickly to another story in Texas. Take a listen.
YOUNG: Thank you, Nancy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Evidence will be presented to a grand jury after a 7-year-old was killed by two pit bulls on Sunday. Police say Tanner Joshua Monk was walking down the road near his home when a neighbor`s two pit bulls launched a sickening attack on the boy causing his death. When deputies arrived on the scene, the dogs became aggressive towards them and the officers were forced to shoot the dogs.
The dogs were taken to a local university to be tested. Police say there was a fence around the yard where the dogs were housed but the gate was open leading to the attack that killed the young boy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Don Treul, with the "Breckenridge American," what happened?
DON TREUL, EDITOR, BRECKENRIDGE AMERICAN: Nancy, this is a very sad occasion here in Breckenridge. We are a rural community and this is very unusual. Apparently this is in a rural area of our community just about two miles outside of town. We have a nice lake there and about two miles away by the lake a young boy was playing outside and he was, indeed, attacked by (INAUDIBLE) two pit bulls and he was killed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Straight out to Lisa Lange with PETA. Lisa, no chain, no leash. The gate`s wide open. What is your response?
LISA LANGE, SENIOR VP OF COMMUNICATIONS, PETA: Well, there are a lot of questions that need to be asked and answered. You know, at least 75 percent of the dogs that attack people every year are unneutered. So that would be one question to ask. Were these dogs ever chained and penned even though they weren`t at the time they got out of the yard? Because that makes for a very unsocial animal.
And when you`re talking about a pit bull, aggression from an animal like that, remembering, that pit bulls were initially bred to be fought and to kill other animals.
GRACE: With us is Lisa Lange from PETA.
Very quickly to Ray Giudice and Courtney Anderson.
Courtney Anderson, will there be charges tonight? Nothing has happened.
COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, you said they`re going for the grand jury, so seriously, obviously, the prosecutors think they`ve got a case potentially. The challenge with is going to be the criminal intent. You know, you certainly can see civil liability on this pretty clearly, negligence, but it wasn`t intentional.
GRACE: But what about criminal charges, Ray Giudice?
ANDERSON: Well, that`s the challenge.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, criminal negligence, criminal reckless conduct. I think that`s what was being states. But what they`re doing, I think the state is smart. They`re going to -- they looked at these dogs. They`re going to do an autopsy to see if they were abused. They`re going to look at neighbors. Were these dogs violent predispositions? There apparently is no complaint of prior aggressive nature.
GRACE: A 7-year-old boy is dead. No chain. No leash. Gates open. We want answers tonight. We`ll bring you the latest as soon as the story develops.
But let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Danny Kimme, 27, Fisher, Illinois, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart. Loved the outdoors and the Razorbacks. Leaves behind parents, Douglas and Patricia, brother, Stephen, sister, Nicole, widow Corrine, and a baby girl.
Danny Kimme, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for inviting us into your homes, and a special get well to my brother Mac. I know you`re watching from the hospital right now.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
