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Senator Edward Kennedy Leaving Massachusetts Hospital; Democrats Focus on Florida and Disqualified Delegates; British Troops Back on Iraq Streets After Militia Takeover

Aired May 21, 2008 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Tony Harris. Stay informed in the CNN NEWSROOM. All day, here's what's on the rundown. Senator Edward Kennedy leaving a Massachusetts Hospital any time now. Doctors look at options to treat his cancerous brain tumor.

WHITFIELD: The Democrats focus on Florida and disqualified delegates today. Clinton and Obama both fresh from primary victories.

HARRIS: British troops back on Iraq streets after a militia takeover. Money talks in Basra today. Wednesday, May 21st. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

WHITFIELD: All right. Set to happen right now. Senator Ted Kennedy checking out of the hospital after learning that he has brain cancer. Our Dan Lothian is outside Massachusetts General Hospital where the senator was diagnosed with a malignant cancer. But as far as we know, Dan, he has not actually been treated. Just simply diagnosed and the treatment or the discussions about the treatment come later.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. He's not been, to our knowledge, treated here at the hospital because doctors continue to perform additional tests. That was what we had heard from that statement from doctors after they confirmed that indeed he has this malignant tumor. And they said they were conducting these additional tests because they want to figure out the right course of treatment. And they are looking at a combination of chemotherapy and radiation.

But also, we are told the Kennedy family wants to explore surgery as a possible option. They want to wait and see the results of these tests to decide whether or not surgery might be a viable option. To our knowledge, doctors have not talked about surgery as n option. They did not in the statement they released yesterday, they did not talk about that today. But certainly, they feel comfortable enough based on the initial testing that they can release him from the hospital. They had said yesterday that he would be in the hospital for at least the next couple of days or so. But in the statement, obviously, they pointed out he would be released early.

He is expected to come out from that door right behind me. This is not the door we have been seeing the family members go in and out. In fact, we saw his wife, Vicki, show up at the hospital shortly after 7:00 this morning. Also, Patrick Kennedy went in that door a few minutes ago. His family members have been by his side throughout this entire ordeal. And no doubt, they will be surrounding him as he continues down this very difficult road. He will be released from the hospital here according to the statement and then will return home on Cape Cod where this whole ordeal started.

You might remember, it was Saturday morning he had gone out for a walk with his dog, about 8:19 or so. It was when a 911 call was made. He was rushed to Cape Cod Hospital. And then was later airlifted on Saturday to Massachusetts General Hospital. As you might remember, Fredricka, there was thinking that he had suffered a stroke. There were all these reports that he had stroke-like symptoms. And then doctors put out a statement on Saturday evening saying, in fact, it was not a stroke but instead had been a seizure. That then raised numerous questions as to what caused the seizure. And so they were conducting all those tests.

We are told that on Monday was when they discovered that indeed he did have a tumor in his brain. We don't know that's at the point later that day was when learn that it was also malignant. But yesterday was when we got word, yesterday late afternoon, when we got word that this tumor was malignant. Again, we continue to wait for Senator Kennedy to come out that door. As you know, Fredricka, a lot of times when they give you these times, that's it's going to happen around 10:00, it's slow. It could be 10:00, it could be 10:30. But we do expect him shortly to be departing from this door behind me.

WHITFIELD: And Dan, you mentioned the word seizure because that's what precipitated this whole hospital visit in the first place. But you know, the word seizure kind of conjures up a whole lot of different things. Does it mean that someone has actually fainted while he was out walking his dog? Was he by himself? Have we heard any more detail about exactly what happened or was it once he walked the dog, got back home, someone was able to witness he was in trouble? Do we know.

LOTHIAN: We have not gotten a lot of color as to the specifics, as to what happened that morning beyond the fact to our understanding that he did go out for a walk with the dog and he was by himself. He returned home and then that 911 call was placed. Obviously, taken to a hospital down there, it is a very good hospital, Cape Cod Hospital. But our understanding is they really wanted to bring him here to Boston because this is a hospital that's more equipped to handle all kinds of serious situations. So, that's why they brought him here. Now, what's interesting, and we talked a little bit about this yesterday is that there have been some red flags that came up with each passing hour, and passing days from the initial emergency when he was brought here to the hospital. And in part, because doctors were not giving us any information at all. They did rule out a stroke. But then we didn't hear from doctors again.

Also, in just talking to doctors, they pointed out typically when someone does not have a history of seizures and they come into the hospital, they do the battery of tests, they do the scans. They do the blood tests. Typically that person would be released either that evening or the next morning. They are not held for an extended period of time because you can pretty much isolate what the problem is quickly. We did not see that happen in this case. And so Yesterday before that announcement came in, there was a lot of speculation that this was a serious situation. And of course, it turned out to be the case.

WHITFIELD: And Dan, quickly a lot of preparations are being made right now for the senator to emerge because we are seeing them putting up the tape. Cordoning off the area.

LOTHIAN: That's right.

And either more clearly so that he can make it to the vehicle or perhaps make a way -- who knows. Maybe to where you all are so we might be able to hear from him.-

LOTHIAN: Well, we are told - well, Fredricka, we were told that he will be coming out and it will just be a chance for us to get a shot of him. But he will not be making any comments. Now certainly people will be shouting questions at him, I would suspect. But we don't expect him to say anything at all. And I should point out that there is another interesting story. Senator Kennedy was joking with his doctors yesterday. He was asking whether or not he could go back home on the cape to take part in this sailing regatta from Hyannis to Nantucket. This is something, as you know, he is an avid sailor and loves his boat. He loves the water. He wanted to go down and take part in the event. He's been part of this for more than 30 years. Obviously he knew that the answer to that would be no. But who knows, maybe he will get a chance to at least watch it. We are being told now he will be out in about ten minutes. Ten minutes now we're being told is the time he's expected to walk out from that door behind me and hop into an SUV, dark blue SUV, for the drive down to Cape Cod.

And again, he will be undergoing some kind of treatment down there at some point once they decide what course of treatment it will be. At this point, again, just to reiterate, doctors have not talked about surgery at all. Although that's something that the Kennedy family wants to explore as a possible option. But right now looking at more sort of conventional treatment such as radiation and chemotherapy. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Dan, I know that you're going to stay in that location, of course, when it happens, when the senator emerges, maybe ten minutes from now, we will be coming back to you. But meantime, before we let you go. I just saw a reflection in the glass there a moment ago which appeared to be a lot of people who were standing there awaiting his arrival or departure, no matter which way you look at it. And they weren't seemingly just reporters. Can you describe for me all the folks that have come out to perhaps, you know, shout out their best regard to the senator or just get a glimpse of him?

LOTHIAN: Right. I do want to point out, what happens - this is sort of an intake area and outtake as well. And so you will see a lot of patients coming in here to this particular location, that might be some of what we are seeing. We have not seen a lot of folks from the public. Although over to my right, actually my left, I do see a number of people who have gathered there. It seems to be more workers, some construction workers on the side here. Also, some hospital workers who have gathered in an area behind me my left. Maybe Bob can point over there. You can see, that's the crowd over there. There are some cameras, television cameras, mixed on the crowd over there. And a few folks from the hospital here also waiting to see him come out. This, obviously, is a big story. Nationally. But certainly here locally in Massachusetts where a lot of people no matter where they are on the political spectrum, they do respect Kennedy.

One man telling me that he really consider him an icon. They talk about the things that Senator Kennedy has done for the working class people, what he has done for senior citizens or what he has done for healthcare. I mean, these are the kinds of stories that you hear from people here as they wander by the hospital. You know how is he doing? Those are the kinds of stories that you are hearing from folks here in Massachusetts.

WHITFIELD: All right. That plus he is their native son.

LOTHIAN: Yes. That's right.

WHITFIELD: Dan Lothian, we will check back with you momentarily. Tony.

HARRIS: Let's bring in our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, so many things to talk to you about. I know you have a wall there with a terrific display you will go through for us in just a moment. But let me pick up, if I could, if you don't mind, the discussion that Fred and Dan were having a moment ago about the seizure. I'm just curious, did the seizure - did the tumor cause the seizure? And is it possible, does the seizure impact the tumor in any negative way?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: To your first question, almost assuredly the tumor did cause the seizure. As I'm talking, I'm sort of going to go ahead and recreate this. I can explain more easily what I'm talking about but here you see again the head, you see the eyes, the nose. This particular part of the brain here, so important. Think of it like this. You have this sort of foreign mass. In this case, it was the tumor. And it is angering a lot of the cells around this particular tumor. The cells here aren't quite sure what to make of the mass. Eventually they may have reacted with a little bit of a headache for the senator in the past, maybe a little bit of arm numbness. Things like that.

A seizure was sort of a stern warning sign that something was going on, almost assuredly that seizure was caused by the tumor. As far as the seizure adversely affecting the tumor, probably not. People have a seizure, they recover from it. We heard those stories, Tony, about people having the recovery. We heard the senator was up joking around, talking on the phone. That is typical. That is exactly what you would expect when you think about someone that had a seizure and how they recover in the long run. Again, just to orient yourself here, where we are talking, these are the eyes up here, the nose.

And again, it was sort of this area. A little bit higher than that, where the tumor is likely located.

HARRIS: All right. So some real basic questions to help me with my understanding of this. What does the tumor attach itself to there in the brain? Sanjay.

GUPTA: Yes. So these tumors are - we know it is a malignant tumor. We've heard that now from his doctors.

HARRIS: Yes.

GUPTA: People typically think of that as a tumor that sorts of spreads throughout the body. Brain tumors typically do not do that. Let me give you another orientation here.

HARRIS: Right.

GUPTA: Again, just making sure I can keep you on track. This is the eye here. So sort of looking this way, this is the nose, this is the brain. Sort of think of that tumor, it sort of within the brain itself. Sort of looks like an octopus, tentacles sort of reaching out into different parts of the brain. Typically these tumors don't metastasize or spread to other parts of the body. What they do and I think that's concerning to people is that they grow. And sometimes they invade other normal parts of the brain. That is the big concern here.

HARRIS: OK. Once again, stay with me for just a moment, Sanjay. A lot of -- there we have it. Senator Ted Kennedy leaving Massachusetts General Hospital. Let's see if we can hear some comments.

GUPTA: All right.

WHITFIELD: He just waved to the camera or at least to the microphone.

HARRIS: I think you're right.

WHITFIELD: And there with his wife, Vicki, and the dogs, presumably with which he was walking that day when he had that seizure as he headed back to the home. We saw the cordoned off area that they had set up right before what was parked cars, maybe not. I guess, he was just allowing for a better picture opportunity there. There's Caroline Kennedy.

HARRIS: Let me bring Sanjay in. Sanjay, anything in the picture here of note to you?

GUPTA: I was noticing a couple of things here which I think are important. You sort of him lift his right arm. And wave. And that's something that I think, his doctors and most neurologists, neurosurgeons would look for. It means that his right side seems to be moving pretty well. He did seem to shuffle his gait a little bit. You know, I don't remember what his - how his walking was prior to all of this. But you know, what people are looking for, does he have any evidence of weakness on the right side of his body. Also, his face, he seems to be smiling normally. Those are all very good signs. Speech and strength. Those are the things that can be affected by this particular tumor. That's what doctors are going to be looking for.

HARRIS: And there is concern about what I heard you talking about last hour with Fred, the motor strip, maybe you can explain that to us.

GUPTA: Yes, absolutely. Again, you take a look here. You take a little tour of --

HARRIS: Let's split the screen here so we can see Sanjay as well.

GUPTA: Yes. OK. So, you know, let me just talk while you look at those images. There is a part of the brain which is responsible for motor strength on the other side of the body. The biggest concern is that this left parietal lobe, which, again, is right in this particular area over here, could actually be affecting that motor area of the brain. The motor area here, the tumor probably in this area, somewhere, again, so important to look at the senator there as we just did and see him raise that right arm and see him wave.

HARRIS: Yes. We're going to rewrap that picture. Yes, I'm just curious. What are the - what are the treatment options here? We're used to hearing about a course of treatment here that includes surgery, chemotherapy, radiation. I mean, what are the concerns, particularly given the placement of this tumor, about and the impact on a treatment course, Sanjay?

GUPTA: The ideal thing would be to be able to operate on a tumor like this. Surgeons would typically you would want to remove as much as of this. It would probably give him his best opportunity. The concern here, Tony, as I think you are alluding to is is this an operable tumor?

HARRIS: Yes.

GUPTA: Is this something that can be operated again in this area without injuring other areas of the brain that are responsible for his movements, responsible for something that's so critically important to him as a senator, his speech. That's a question they are probably asking themselves now. If that can be done, the you're probably looking at just trying to give chemo and radiation and possibly trying to just shrink this tumor down. Hoping that you get a scan six weeks from now and that the tumor is smaller. That's the goal. Tony, if none of those things work, then he may be eligible for a clinical trial. There is such a thing known as a brain tumor vaccine. They actually create a vaccine using the patient's own tumor. The vaccine's own white blood cells and hope that vaccine sort of attacks that tumor. It's an early clinical trial but that may be something that's an option for him.

HARRIS: Well, and one last question here. Sanjay, one last question here. We know you're busy and everyone wants to talk to you this morning. But I'm just curious, do you believe the doctors know there was a biopsy performed, the tissue was being evaluated, obviously. Do the doctors know - and I'm not trying to push this down the road any farther than we need to. But do the doctors at least at this point know the grade of this tumor? And I know from listening to you how important that information is.

GUPTA: Yes. You know they very well might. I mean, what we know over the last couple of days, he probably had an operation. I can even show you here the sort of nature of that operation. They would make a little small incision on the top of his head, in this area, in this area. Go down with a little probe into the tumor. So, you're going down like this and grabbing a piece of that particular tumor. It takes a few days, Tony, to go ahead and look at that under the microscope and be absolutely sure as to what grade this is. They might know or might be coming back within the next couple of days or so.

HARRIS: There he is, our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So helpful, neurosurgeon. He knows all about this. Sanjay, great to see you. Thanks for your help this morning.

GUPTA: Yes. Thank you, Tony.

WHITFIELD: Great to see those images of Senator Kennedy.

HARRIS: Yes.

WHITFIELD: In the meantime, some pretty frightening images last night particularly in the southeast. We're talking about strong storms. Take a look right there. A community in Georgia gets roughed up. Meteorologist Rob Marciano in the severe weather center, in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Presidential politics now. The Democrats in Florida today after a split decision. Obama wins Oregon and marks a milestone. Clinton takes Kentucky and vows to keep going. Jim Acosta is live in horse country there. He is in Lexington, Kentucky. Jim, last hour you said the race continues. We have to be in the final stretch, aren't we?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Down the stretch they come.

HARRIS: Down the stretch.

ACOSTA: After nearly five months of primaries across the country, Tony, just three contests left, two of them states, one of them Puerto Rico. And you are right, Barack Obama reached a pretty significant milestone last night. No Democrat has reached a pledge delegate majority and then have not gone on to capture the nomination. And so Barack Obama has that notch in his belt. The New York senator, Hillary Clinton, she did score a big victory here in Kentucky, beating Barack Obama by 35 points. But Senator Obama did not do too badly up in Oregon, beating Clinton handedly there and achieving that pledge delegate majority. But at her victory speech last night in Louisville, Senator Clinton - she suggested that she had two other states on her mind, Michigan and Florida and those disputed delegates there. She told her supporters that she still sees a path, even though it is a dubious one, to the nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I am going to keep standing up for the voters of Florida and Michigan. I'm going to keep making our case until we have a nominee, whoever she may be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And Clinton's victory here in Kentucky, as in West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, underscored Barack Obama's weakness with working class white voters. That is a task that he is going to have to take on over the coming weeks and months. Hillary Clinton also revealed to Obama again that he also has work to do with women's voters. Although, he is making strides on that front and he suggested last night that Hillary Clinton is breaking barriers at that big rally that he held in Des Moines, Iowa, last night. He, once again, touted the milestone that he has reached for this campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tonight, Iowa, in the fullness of spring, with the help of those who stood up from Portland to Louisville, we have returned to Iowa with the majority of delegates, elected by the American people. And you have put us within reach of the Democratic nomination for president of the United States of America.

ACOSTA: And as we have been talking about all morning, both Clinton and Obama are heading down to Florida to campaign down there. But it's very interesting and very telling what they will be doing in the sunshine state. Hillary Clinton talking very much about the past and those dubious disputed delegates in Florida and Michigan. Obama is looking to the future and the upcoming general contest that is all but apparently shaping up with John McCain down there in the sunshine state. It will be one of those big battlegrounds, Tony. If Barack Obama can win Florida in the general election, it is going to be very hard for John McCain to win this fall.

HARRIS: Now, you make a good case. All right. Jim Acosta for us this morning from Lexington, Kentucky. Jim, thanks.

WHITFIELD: Well, perhaps you are traveling this summer. Well, higher costs are definitely out there. And not just for fuel. We will tell you how to beat that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Right now we are waiting President Bush's arrival there at the White House where he is expected to announce some new policy change as it pertains to Cuba. That will be interesting to hear. We are hearing that possibly it might mean that cell phones will be allowed to be sent from relatives or friends here in the United States to their friends or relatives or counterparts in Cuba, to help open up communications between Cuba and the U.S. and of course, we are going to be waiting for the president to expound on that.

In the past, there have been those who heard about that as a possibility, calling - those are really cosmetic changes -

HARRIS: Yes.

WHITFIELD: ... for the policy of the U.S. and Cuba. But of course, when this happens, there at the White House, we'll be able to bring that to you as soon as we can.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. Taking you to the east room right there at the White House. The president's arrival there, expected to talk about the policy change as it pertains to Cuba. This as that country is now led by President Raul Castro, the brother of Fidel Castro. 76- year-old Raul Castro put into office there in February. Let's listen in.

PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thanks for coming to mark this day of solidarity with the Cuban people. This is a day of pride as we honor the culture and history of the noble nation. It is a day of sorrow, as we reflect on the continued oppression of the Cuban people. Most of all, this is a day of hope. We have hope because we see a day coming when Cubans will have the freedom of which they have dreamed for centuries. The freedom that is the eternal birthright of all mankind. And many of you here are working to hasten that day and I thank you for your efforts. I particularly thank the members of my cabinet who joined us. Madam Secretary, thank you for coming and being a staunch supporter. Mi amigo, Carlos Gutierrez en tu familia. For those of you in Cuba listening, I think it is important for you to know that Carlos is a Cuban American. He's now in the cabinet of the President of the United States. All things are possible in a free society.

(APPLAUSE)

Secretary Kemp, Secretary Chow, thank you all for coming as well. Appreciate Acting Secretary Bernardi of the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Particularly thankful for members of the United States Congress, Mel Martinez. All things are possible in a free society.

(APPLAUSE)

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.

(APPLAUSE)

Ros Hermanos Bolart (ph)

Lincoln Diaz Bolardi (ph), Famdian Mario Diaz Bolardi (ph). Thank you for coming. (APPLAUSE)

Congressman Chris Smith.

(APPLAUSE) Congressman Darrell Issa.

Congressman John Campbell.

(APPLAUSE)

Congressman Gus Bilirakis.

Thank you all for coming.

(APPLAUSE)

I appreciate the members of the diplomatic corps who've joined us. Thank you for being such good friends of the Cuban people. I want to thank family members of the Cuban dissidents who are here. Welcome to the White House. Thank you for coming.

(APPLAUSE)

Willie Tarino (ph) and his wife, Lysette (ph), thank you for coming.

(APPLAUSE)

This time of year holds great significance for the Cuban people. One-hundred and thirteen years ago this week, Cuba lost its great poet and patriot Jose Marti. And 106 years ago this week, Cuba achieved the independence for which Marti gave his life. They say Marti knew that true liberty would come to Cuba only with a just government of its people's choosing. He warned a regime of personal despotism would be more shameful than the political despotism Cuba now endures. Marti's warning proved truer than anyone could have imagined. Today after nearly a half century of repression, Cuba still suffers under the personal despotism of Fidel and Raul Castro.

Under the dictator's watch Cuba's political freedoms have been denied. Families have been torn apart. The island's economy has been reduced to shambles. Cuba's culture has been drained of artists, and scholars, and musicians and athletes. And like the once grand buildings of Havana, Cuba's society is crumbling after decades of neglect under the Castros.

A few months ago when Fidel handed over many of his titles to his brother, Raul, the Cuban regime announced a series of so-called reforms. For example, Cubans are now allowed to purchase mobile phones and DVD players and computers, and they've told that they will be able to purchase toasters and other basic appliances in 2010.

If the Cuban regime is serious about improving life for the Cuban people, it will take steps necessary to make these changes meaningful. Now that the Cuban people can be trusted with mobile phones, they should be trusted to speak freely in public. (APPLAUSE)

Now that the Cuban people are allowed to purchase DVD players, they should also be allowed to watch movies and documentaries produced by Cuban artists who are free to express themselves.

(APPLAUSE)

Now that the Cuban people have open access to computers, they should also have open access to the Internet.

(APPLAUSE)

Now that the Cuban people will be allowed to have toasters in two years, they should stop needing to worry about whether they will have bread today.

(APPLAUSE)

There is another problem with the regime's recent announcements. It is the height of hypocrisy to claim credit for permitting Cubans to own products that virtually none of them can afford. For the regime's actions to have any impact, it must be accompanied by major economic reforms that open Cuba's inefficient state-run markets, to get families real choices about what they buy. And institute a free- enterprise system that allows ordinary people to benefit from their talents and their hard work.

Only when Cubans have an economy that makes prosperity possible will these announcements lead to any real improvements in their daily lives. Real change in Cuba also requires political freedom. In this area, too, the regime has made grand commitments. One of Raul's first acts after receiving his new titles, was to sign a major United Nations treaty on human rights. When it comes to respecting human rights on the island, the regime has not attempted even cosmetic changes. For example, political dissidents continue to be harassed, detained and beaten. And more than 200 prisoners still languish in Castro's tropical gulag.

Recently I received a letter from a man that spent 17 years in these dungeons, who described them as dens, of torture and pain and death. This is an undeniable violation of the U.n. treaty that Cuba just signed. If the regime views this document as anything more than a worthless piece of paper, it must immediately stop its abuse of political dissidents and release all political prisoners.

(APPLAUSE)

The world is watching the Cuban regime. If it follows its recent public gestures by opening up access to information and implementing meaningful economic reforms, respecting political freedom and human rights, then it can credibly say it has delivered the beginnings of change. But experience tells us this regime has no intention of taking these steps. Instead, his recent gestures appear to be nothing more than a cruel joke, Perpetuated on the long-suffering people. America refuses to be deceived, and so do the Cuban people. (APPLAUSE)

WHITFIELD: OK, buying pressure cookers, DVDs, cell phones, renting cars or hotel rooms, they seem like simple pleasures to and you me. But for the Cuban people for decades now, all of those things were off limits until Raul Castro took over the presidency from his brother, Castro, last February, and saying that he is opening the door toward more freedoms for the people.

Well, President Bush testing the waters there, saying now there is a change in U.S. policy that now will allow Cuban-Americans here in the states to be able to send cell phones and actually have those phones activated for their Cuban loved ones, and that is implying that that agreement has been made between the U.S. and Cuba. Of course, the president applauding that this a day of solidarity today, and for this very reason/ This is new policy the president is proudly there boasting of there from the White House in the East Room. Of course we'll continue to follow the developments here, and perhaps any reaction coming from Cuban-Americans about this new policy perhaps paving the way for what more is to come between U.S. and Cuban relations.

HARRIS: And I just sent a note to Ed Henry, White House correspondent, on that point you're making. Did there need to be a Cuban sign-off on this. And what Ed is suggesting is this is a test, this is this administration's test of this new policy sense of openness in Cuba. Let's see where it goes.

WHITFIELD: What's next?

HARRIS: OK, still to come in the NEWSROOM this morning, just three contests left for the Democrats. How is the general election shaping up? Our political guests discuss the road ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: Barack Obama inches closer to the Democratic presidential nomination. He now has a majority of pledge delegates and foreign policy shaping up to be a major issue.

With us to talk about that and more, Mary Francis Barry, former chairwoman of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission.

She is a professor of history and American social thought at the University of Pennsylvania.

Good to see you, as always.

MARY FRANCES BERRY, FMR. CIVIL RIGHTS COMMISSION CHAIRWOMAN: Hello.

HARRIS: And Stanley Renshon, is professor of political science at the City University of New York.

Stanley, good to see you.

And neither of them has publicly endorsed a candidate.

Stanley, let me start with you because this is a trend I have been seeing over the last couple of weeks. Certainly since West Virginia, maybe back to Pennsylvania as with well.

Do you believe the polling that suggests more Clinton supporters won't support Obama if he's a nominee with the same kind of gusto as Obama supporters seem to be willing to support Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee?

PROF. STANLEY RENSHON, CITY UNIV. OF NEW YORK: Well, I think it is easier for Obama supporters to be optimistic at this time since it's more likely that they will be on the winning side. And as far as Hillary's supporters go, I think a great many of them will gravitate back to the Democratic party perhaps. Reluctantly a little sadder, but nonetheless there.

HARRIS: Hey, what do you think, Mary Frances Barry?

BERRY: Let me tell you what I think in general this morning.

HARRIS: OK.

BERRY: I think that the Democrats are about to do what you do when you engage in a fourth marriage. This is a triumph of hope over experience. And they're about to see if Obama's theory that he can win red states and get Republicans and Independents to support him, works and that they can do it without getting the battleground states that he's not been able to win in the primaries.

They're about to find out whether that's true and whether he can get them more congressional Democrats in large numbers. They're about to find that out. I think that who supporters will support whom, we won't know until it is all sorted out and until we find out who the vice presidential candidates will be. We don't know that yet.

HARRIS: I kind of want to resist the sort of -- I guess it's the pack mentality that says, here are the polls. It seems way too early.

Foreign policy, obviously is going to be a big issue in the general -- particularly if it is a race between John McCain and Barack Obama.

Here is Barack Obama last night. And then let's talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Bush Iraq policy, that asks everything from our troops and nothing of Iraqi politician, is John McCain's policy, too. And so is the fear of tough and aggressive diplomacy that has left this country more isolated and less secure than at any time in recent history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: So, Stanley, is this the kind of language that is effective in your view, in countering the notion that is being put forward by the McCain campaign?

That Barack Obama is too inexperienced to be trusted with foreign -- big foreign policy decisions?

RENSHON: Well, the truth of the matter is he isn't experienced in foreign policy. And to some degree, he's unschooled in foreign policy. He doesn't have a long history of acquaintance with the subject matter of it or the various permeatations (ph). But he's going with the only thing that he can do under the circumstances, which is lead with the idea what he's got is the best there is. It's really unclear whether the American public will wind up feeling more secure and buy that. And by the way, I like Marion Berry's idea about --

BERRY: Mary Frances Berry, not Marion. That was the old mayor of D.C.

HARRIS: Oh, my.

RENSHON: Mary Frances. Well I stand corrected. But I like the idea of a fourth marriage. But it would be a little bit like a fourth marriage done through the want ads.

HARRIS: OK.

BERRY: What I think about the foreign policy question is, I don't think Obama supporters care that he has -- is inexperienced in foreign policy. I don't think that's what it's going to come down to. It's whether they trust him -- whether or not he's inexperienced -- whether they just his judgment and feel that he can gain experience over what they experienced so far with John McCain, and his views on matters. So I think that's what it's going to come down to.

HARRIS: Well, but let me just push it a little bit further with you, Mary Frances Berry.

For people for whom there is some doubt -- that some doubt has been raised by the McCain campaign's argument, I'm just wondering, in your view, who is winning the sort of the battle right now of defining the other Bush's third term versus inexperience?

BERRY: Well, no one's winning yet. It's a good argument that's being engaged. I think that on the one hand, it's clear that McCain hasn't supported Bush right down the line. He was one of the people that criticized the way Bush was carrying out the war. And he kept on criticizing the way it was carried out until the surge took place.

It's also true he keeps supporting the war and thinking there will be a victory, and Obama did not, and was not in the Senate and didn't vote for it. So right now it has not sorted itself out. But the lines are bring drawn everyday.

HARRIS: Stanley, what do you think of the question of who is doing a better job right now of defining the other?

RENSHON: Well, I think the battle is set. And I think they're both working very hard to make their cases. And I don't think the battle will be fully joined really until September. But there are large differences between the two candidates on national security. And I continue to believe that national security will be a very upper- most thought in many people's minds when the election comes around.

HARRIS: All right. Let's leave it there.

Mary Frances Berry and Stanley Renshon, thank you both for your time this morning.

BERRY: Thank you.

RENSHON: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right, record profits for big oil. A virtual gusher of green backs. So, how green are they on the environment?

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WHITFIELD: OK, so oil company ads. Not asking you to buy their gas, but to buy their claims of being green-minded.

CNN's Allan Chernoff, has a reality check.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... That an oil company can practice and espouse conservation. Not corporate tight wigs (ph), but men and women of vision. People who daily try to find newer ways, cleaner ways, to power the world.

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ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a message we're hearing more often from some of the biggest companies on the planet. Oil giants, which provide the fossil fuels we burn that are in turn blamed for global warming. Chevron and BP have been most aggressive in promoting their commitment to alternative energy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to really be cautious of what we are putting into our cars, just like we put into our bodies. And we need to make that shift, that well, what we're doing is really messing things up.

CHERNOFF: Media watchdog critics say, don't believe the hype.

JOHN STAUBER, PR WATCH: What these companies are doing is called green washing. They want to look as green and environmental as possible.

CHERNOFF: BP, which was the first oil giant to acknowledge concern about global warming, plans to spend about $1.5 billion this year on alternative energy projects. Including wind, solar, and hydrogen fueled power plants. That's more than 6 percent of the company's capital investments.

Chevron has made a three-year alternative energy commitment to $2.5 billions through next year. Which would amount to 4 percent of the company's investment in energy resources. It's not enough, say environmentalists who claim the investments are merely symbolic.

DERON LOVAAS, NATURAL RESOURCES DEF. COUN.: Small, baby steps, when they could be taking giant strides, given the revenue that they're raking in because of these high prices.

CHERNOFF: Chevron and BP declined to appear on camera, but say their investments are significant and may grow.

Chevron told CNN, "It is prudent to take proactive steps to position Chevron for future leadership in important sources of renewable energy."

BP recently told investors, "Alternative energy is expected to be a major part of the global energy mix in the future and energy is BP's business."

In an ad, Shell promoted it's horizontal oil drilling as environmentally conscious. Shell is boosting investment in wind energy in Texas, though it recently announced plans to pull out of a major wind power plant off the British coast.

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WHITFIELD: All right, Allen Chernoff, joining us live now. All right, Allen. So what does this mean for those alternative energy businesses?

CHERNOFF (on camera): Well, Fredricka, right now we've got oil trading near $130 a barrel. So the fact is, the traditional oil production is incredibly profitable right now. Alternative energy, not so much. They're looking to the future. But with oil so expensive, people saying that supply is tight, that makes alternative energy very important going forward. Increasingly, we are going to see energy companies putting more money into this, and it will at some point, become profitable.

WHITFIELD: And so among those oil companies that really are profitable -- Chevron, BP, among them -- are they green or are they just trying to look green?

CHERNOFF: Well you know what? Almost every company these days is trying to look green. Car companies, waste management companies...

WHITFIELD: It's the new black.

CHERNOFF: Even diaper manufacturers, you know. All these businesses that are not really green, they're trying to cover themselves up in a green flag. It's very hip and so they're doing it, too. They're involved somewhat in alternative energy. They are making some investments. And, hey, that's what marketing's all about.

WHITFIELD: All right, you're right.

Allan Chernoff, thanks so much, from New York -- Tony.

HARRIS: Friends say he is in a fighting mood. Senator Kennedy leaving a Boston hospital a short time ago. Doctors consider treatment for a cancerous brain tumor.

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