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Campbell Brown
Oil Price Politics; Interview With Senator Richard Durbin; Is McCain Auditioning V.P. Hopefuls?
Aired May 21, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
Does this look all too familiar? Check it out, powerful corporate titans taken to task by Congress, today, big oil executives swearing to tell the truth. It was about an hour after this happened oil prices set a new record, passing $133 a barrel, which means the U.S. now spends a trillion dollars a year on oil.
Tonight, we begin with what, if anything, can be done about it. But here's something to remember the next time you fill up your tank. At today's hearings, a sarcastic senator demanded the oil execs state how much money they earned from their hugely profitable companies.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Last year, what was your compensation, counting all the -- all the amounts that you have to, to list and salary, deferred compensation and so forth?
J. STEPHEN SIMON, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, EXXONMOBIL: In total, about $12. 5 million.
LEAHY: Thank you.
And, Mr. Lowe, what was yours?
Press the button.
JOHN LOWE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, CONOCOPHILLIPS COMPANY: I'm sorry. I don't. I know it's a matter of public record. I don't know the exact amount.
LEAHY: Mr. Lowe, I wish I made enough money that I didn't even have to know how much I would make.
(LAUGHTER)
LEAHY: Is it over, say, $100,000 a year?
LOWE: Yes, sir.
LEAHY: Is it considerably over $100,000 a year?
LOWE: Yes, sir, it would be...
LEAHY: Is it over $1 million a year?
LOWE: Yes, sir.
LEAHY: You know, I -- do you suppose you might be able to find out how much you made and let us know?
(LAUGHTER)
LOWE: Yes -- yes, sir.
LEAHY: Thank you.
Mr. Robertson?
PETER ROBERTSON, VICE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, CHEVRON CORPORATION: I'm in the same boat. It's certainly well over $1 million. It's public record. And I'm happy to...
LEAHY: Is it over $2 million?
ROBERTSON: Yes, it is, sir.
LEAHY: Is it over $3 million?
ROBERTSON: Yes, sir.
LEAHY: Is it over $4 million?
ROBERTSON: I don't remember.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTSON: I don't know because it depends -- there's a whole bunch of ways of...
(CROSSTALK)
LEAHY: You know, if I made over $4 million a year, I probably wouldn't remember either. But...
ROBERTSON: It's several million dollars. And I would be happy to provide it. It's in our proxy statement and it's a matter of public record.
LEAHY: We've had witnesses here before who don't remember. I hope you will recall and send it into us.
Mr. Hofmeister, you can probably see where this is going.
JOHN HOFMEISTER, PRESIDENT, SHELL OIL COMPANY: My income is not publicly reported because it is not within the top five executives of my company. But, for the record, it was about $2.2 million.
LEAHY: Thank you, and thank you for your honesty. Mr. Malone?
ROBERT MALONE, CHAIRMAN AND PRESIDENT, BP AMERICA INC.: Chairman, mine is not a matter of the public record, either, but it's in excess of $2 million.
LEAHY: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: OK. So, after we saw that, we had to ask our friends at CNNMoney to check the public records and find out what these guys really made last year.
And here is what we found. ConocoPhillips' executive vice president, John Lowe, the first guy who couldn't remember his income last year, well, he made more than $5.5 million. Easy to forget, right?
The other guy who couldn't remember, Chevron vice chairman Peter Robertson, he made $14 million. Even ExxonMobil's J. Stephen Simon, the guy who said right away that he made $12.5 million, well, he was actually a little short. His income is more like 15 million bucks.
Anyway, we're going to have more on the oil executives and what you pay for gas coming up in just a minute, but, first, tonight's campaign download.
John McCain has invited some interesting company to his home this weekend, including Mitt Romney, his former rival in the presidential campaign, Florida Governor Charlie Crist and Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal.
Now, despite what it looks like, a top campaign official insists to us that this is not about a McCain running mate and the vice presidency, but merely a social visit. So, hmm, I see. McCain and Romney, they get along so well. Of course, they would have a social engagement.
Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: "Timetables" was the buzzword for the...
MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: Why don't you use the whole quote, Senator?
MCCAIN: ... withdrawal. That...
ROMNEY: Why don't you use the whole quote? Why do you insist on...
MCCAIN: I'm using the whole quote, where you said "I won't"...
ROMNEY: ... not using the actual quote? That's not what I said.
MCCAIN: The actual quote is, "We don't want them to lay in the weeds until we leave." That is the actual quote and I'm sure fact...
ROMNEY: What does that mean?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: All right. Moving on, now for the Democratic campaign download.
Both candidates are in Florida. Barack Obama came to woo voters for the general election and concentrated his fire on John McCain. Hillary Clinton came to argue that the Democratic Party should accept the results of last January's primaries in Florida and Michigan, which she won.
Also tonight, Senator Ted Kennedy is home from the hospital. He is waiting for medical test results that will determine how doctors will treat his brain cancer, and we should mention we will have more on that story. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to be with us a little bit later in the show.
But now let's go back to our lead story: oil price politics. Now that we know how much the big oil guys make, can they do anything to help the rest of us?
Well, that's what the senators wanted to know.
And our own Joe Johns was there to watch the theater unfold.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The politics of the pump, it's a huge issue for everyone. So it was all but hostile today when the Senate had a bunch of top oil company executives come in to explain their billions of profits vs. what we pay for gas.
SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Is there anybody here that has any concerns about what you're doing to this country?
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: You rack up record profits, record profits for any corporation in the United States of America, quarter after quarter after quarter, and apparently have no ethical compass about the price of gasoline.
JOHNS: The response -- and we have heard it before -- the money oil companies make goes back into producing more oil.
ROBERTSON: We're investing all of our earnings. That's why we earn money, is to invest.
JOHNS: In fact, they blamed supply and demand and said, if you want lower gas prices, then let them do more drilling.
SIMON: This is the only government in the world that denies its citizens access to known recoverable oil and gas.
JOHNS: He's complaining about bans on drilling in places like Alaska, where there are environmental worries. Some politicians fear voters may be so angry about gas prices, they will take it out on them.
REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: Energy prices drag the whole economy down as they go up. So, there's no question that it's going to be front and center.
JOHNS: Retiring Congressman Tom Davis of Northern Virginia is from the suburbs of Washington, D.C., which, according to "Forbes" magazine, has the third highest commuter costs in the country, $6.32 for every commuter every day just to get to and from work.
DAVIS: I mean, there are a number of reasons that energy prices are up, and the war is one of them. But it's not the only cause. There's a huge supply and demand problem on top of that and the fact that we haven't produced more energy domestically.
JOHNS: So, what's a politician to do with gas prices like this? Blame the other party, of course. And that's the plan. But, then, they could also vote to open up off-limit drilling sites in Alaska or off the coast, which, to some, sounds more appealing now.
REP. CHARLIE MELANCON (D), LOUISIANA: I can't imagine, with the economy, the cost of food, the cost of gasoline, everything that's out there that's facing Americans, it's getting tougher and tougher, that there's not going to be some -- some opposition and some concern and even some mad voters. So, it's going to be interesting. Can we fix it before then? I don't know that we can.
JOHNS: Translation? No quick election-year fixes.
Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Thanks, Joe.
And, in a minute, we're going to have a senator who came down hard on the oil company executives today. In his words, he wonders, do they have a conscience about how much they are hurting Americans? That's when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There was no shortage of indignation when the guys from big oil came to Capitol Hill today. And some of the exchanges got pretty testy. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DURBIN: Is there anybody here that has any concerns about what you're doing to this country with the prices that you're charging and the profits you're taking? You know, I know lots of -- I am a regular person. I have got lots of friends that are regular people. And we do not like this situation any better.
We have to explain to our families and friends what's going on with...
(CROSSTALK)
DURBIN: How do you explain your profits?
ROBERTSON: No, the way I explain -- well, I explain my profits by saying: We reinvest it all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That was Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the number-two Senate Democratic leader, grilling the vice chairman of chevron.
And Senator Durbin is joining me now.
Welcome to you.
DURBIN: Good to be with you, Campbell.
BROWN: So tell me, Senator, what do you really think of these guys? Do you really believe the oil companies, the oil executives are to blame for sky-high gas prices?
DURBIN: I do. I really do.
There's no doubt that the price of crude oil has gone up, but just look at the profits that they're reporting. My question was really to try to get beyond their role as a corporate executive and ask them as human beings, do you have any idea what you're doing to families and businesses across America? And quite honestly, they have all the compassion of Burmese generals. They just didn't seem to really feel the pain that America is suffering.
BROWN: But, Senator, Democrats have been running Congress for the last two years, as you know. And during that time, gas prices have gone up by about $1.60 a gallon. And that's on your watch. What are you trying to do to reverse that?
DURBIN: Well, let me just tell you point blank, when it comes to responsibility for an energy policy and calling in the oil company executives, the president of the United States has the clout.
And since President Bush was elected seven years ago, we have seen oil company profits go up 400 percent and the price of gasoline go up 250 percent. Every time we have tried to take away the subsidies from the oil companies and come through with relief, we have met resistance from the Republicans in the Senate with their filibusters.
BROWN: You know what the average person who hears that and believes is that it sounds like a lot of finger-pointing. You guys blame Republicans. Republicans blame Democrats. It's all gridlock to the average person who is just sort of watching this from the outside.
So, you guys are about to go on a break, I know, to go back to your districts. I mean, you have got to see this from the perspective of your average constituent, who is saying, why can't you all just sit down, cancel your break, get together and figure out something to do? I mean, people are making choices right now, as you certainly know, between food and gasoline.
DURBIN: If I thought seven more days in Washington would make the difference, I would stay right here, wouldn't move an inch. And I know the anger and frustration of people as they see gasoline prices across the country continuing to rise.
But there are two things we absolutely have to do. First, we need to tell the Department of Justice under President Bush to get to work, roll up their sleeves and stop this price-gouging on consumers. And secondly, we have got to hold these oil companies accountable. They cannot be reporting these massive increases in profits without being held accountable. And, unfortunately, we can't get the support of this administration for a windfall profits tax that would do that.
BROWN: But Democrats are in control of Congress right now. What can you offer your constituents besides blaming Republicans?
DURBIN: Campbell, let me tell you something. We may be in control with a bare majority, but, in the Senate, it takes 60 votes to change the policy on the war on Iraq, to change the Bush economic policies, to change the treatment of these oil companies.
And there are enough Republicans resisting this, we just can't get it done.
BROWN: So, it sounds like to me -- tell me if I'm wrong -- that you don't really have anything to offer people, that it's like, suck it up, it's going to be this way as long as Republicans are in the White House or you don't have a majority to override a veto. Is that accurate?
DURBIN: Well, we're going to keep the pressure on the oil companies and the administration. And last week, I was successful in getting the Federal Trade Commission to agree to investigate these oil companies.
I hope that that leads to some action by the Bush administration against these oil companies and their executives. Frankly, they're not going to take that action unless they get a push.
BROWN: All right, Senator Dick Durbin for us tonight -- Senator Durbin, appreciate your time.
DURBIN: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: Another top political story of the day, Senator Ted Kennedy now out of the hospital, but many questions remain about the next steps for him after being diagnosed with brain cancer. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is a neurosurgeon himself, is going to brief us when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Senator Ted Kennedy greeting well-wishers outside his home after his release from a Boston hospital this morning. The 76- year-old Democrat suffered a seizure Saturday, and, yesterday, doctors revealed the cause, saying that Kennedy does have a cancerous brain tumor.
And joining me now is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, as a neurosurgeon, which you are, when you see this video of him and he's waving and he's engaging with family and friends, and what do you think? What does it tell you about his condition?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, obviously, his attitude is good. Optimism is always going to be a good thing.
But more importantly, I think to the point, he was raising his right arm well. He was waving with his right hand, so important, because, Campbell, as we look at these images here on this G.E. Advantage Workstation, I will give you a pretty rare look inside the brain here.
This is not an FDA-approved diagnostic tool, but look at these images it does provide here. As we go down, I want to show you specifically, come down, and now looking, this is actually the left side of the brain, and then this area over here is so close to what is known as the motor areas of his brain, could affect the right side of his body.
But the fact that he's moving his right arm, his right hand, a very good sign. He's talking. Speech areas are in this location as well, so, positive. Those are good, important signs for him.
BROWN: OK. And explain to us -- or show you us what you can about the procedure that he underwent.
DURBIN: Yes. I think this is going to be surprisingly simple to a lot of people.
You saw that little Band-Aid.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Yes, when he came out of the hospital, right.
GUPTA: That's all he really required for this. And basically what they do is, if you take his scan now, he's probably going to have a little piece of his bone missing here. This is the skull. And they actually just take a little probe and put it inside the brain tumor and actually remove some of that tumor to send off to look under the microscope.
That's all they really do. Oftentimes, it's done with the patient awake, which I think is very surprising to people as well.
BROWN: So, talk to us about his treatment and recovery. Is he going back to work or -- it's speculative, I know.
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: It's hard to say. They say it's a malignant glioma. There are four different stages of malignant glioma, so it's hard to know which stage he's in.
He looked pretty good today. The chances are that we might hear that he went back to work over the next week or so. But he's going to get treatment, it sounds like. And that treatment is going to put him back in the hospital and it's going to make him feel not that good for several days at a time.
So, likely, we're going to hear that he's back and forth quite a bit.
BROWN: And, Sanjay, I know you're going to stick around and talk to us about something else, because news of his condition hit a lot of people on Capitol Hill who are very close to him, friends and colleagues, very hard.
GUPTA: Right.
BROWN: And one of those people was Senator Arlen Specter, who is himself a cancer survivor.
GUPTA: And I was with him when -- just after we got the news about Senator Kennedy.
And it's remarkable. He is a 30-year survivor -- they have known each other for 30 years, I should say. His Hodgkin's lymphoma is back. And he's had to deal with chemotherapy. It's grueling. He told me that. Specter and Kennedy, a very personal story, we will have it after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: News of Senator Kennedy's condition, a malignant brain tumor, hit his friends very hard. And it hit home for a longtime Senate colleague, Pennsylvanian Republican Arlen Specter, who himself is a cancer survivor and is now undergoing chemotherapy for a second time.
And I want to bring back Dr. Sanjay Gupta now.
And, Sanjay, what can you tell us about Specter's case and what it teaches us about how people like Senator Kennedy can cope with something like this?
GUPTA: Yes, it can teach us a lot, certainly from Specter's perspective specifically.
You know, I was spending the morning with him just before news of Senator Kennedy's cancerous brain tumor became public, so, a really remarkable thing. The two have been friends for nearly 30 years. But for Specter, the news was especially personal. His own Hodgkin's disease has come back, and he's going to have to once again endure this grueling treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER: I know something about chemotherapy myself. I'm in the middle of it right now for Hodgkin's. But Senator Kennedy is a real fighter. We all know that. And I'm -- I'm betting on Senator Kennedy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Morning. How are you?
GUPTA (voice-over): This is how our morning began: no handshakes for the senator nowadays. The risk of him getting an infection is too dangerous.
(on-camera): How are you feeling, Senator?
SPECTER: Not so hot.
GUPTA: What's bugging you today?
SPECTER: Overhanging headache. But I was up at 4:00, couldn't sleep. Got my squash partners out at 5:30, played a little squash.
GUPTA (voice-over): Specter is 78-years-old. He's played squash for years. He calls it deposits in the health bank. His doctors say the game helps him endure the chemo. But he knows what comes next.
(on-camera): You're probably going to lose some more of your hair.
SPECTER: I'm going to lose all of my hair. I'm going to be bald as a billiard ball.
GUPTA: How are you going to feel?
SPECTER: Well, I can answer that question categorically. I'm going to not mind at all.
Hodgkin's is about the best of the bad things of the bad things to get.
GUPTA (voice-over): We all watched Senator Specter's first bout with cancer play out in public. He had just won a tough battle for the job he coveted, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, where he sits two seats away from Senator Kennedy.
We watched as the chemo made him balder and paler and weaker and sicker. What we did not know at the time was, the worse Specter looked, the better he was getting. His oncologist then and now is Dr. John Glick.
(on-camera): How worried were you? When you saw him back on the Senate floor on Monday, or you knew that he was back to work, how worried were you about his future?
JOHN GLICK, ABRAMSON CANCER CENTER: Within one week of starting chemotherapy, we knew he was responding. Within two months of starting chemotherapy, complete remission.
GUPTA: You know, I see your eyes light up as you start to describe your day. You almost seem like you get invigorated just talking about all the work you have to do.
SPECTER: Oh, I'm tremendously invigorated by it. There's no time to think about Hodgkin's, Doc.
GUPTA (voice-over): There are times every day when the exhaustion becomes too much and Senator Specter retreats, on a short underground train ride beneath the Capitol to his secret hideaway, an unmarked office, where he has a big, comfortable couch.
SPECTER: I got up this morning at 4:00 because I couldn't sleep, played squash at 5:30, and arrived on the couch at 7:30 for an hour's nap.
GUPTA (on-camera): You know that he's in his 70s. How much of a role or how much of a factor did his age play in your thinking?
GLICK: Rather than chronological age, you want to assess the physiologic age. So, he was a perfect candidate for aggressive treatment of his Hodgkin's disease, the same treatment we would give somebody half his age.
GUPTA (voice-over): And the senator seems to be planning on a political future of a man half his age.
SPECTER: If I run in 2010 and win and go again in 2016, win, and go again in the year 2022, I'm up for reelection in the year 2028. At that point, I will be younger than Strom Thurmond was when he was still serving in the United States Senate.
GUPTA: The Specter approach to cancer and everything else really boils down to three words.
(on-camera): Somebody that's struggling with a disease like cancer that's watching right now, what do you tell them?
SPECTER: I tell them, never give in.
GUPTA (voice-over): Never give in, valuable advice for Senator Kennedy and the rest of us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: And "Never give in" was actually first said by Churchill. And that's who he's quoting when he actually wrote this book, Campbell.
It's amazing. He's had two bouts of Hodgkin's. He had a brain tumor. He had a cardiac arrest where he almost died. This guy is 78 years and he's talking about 20 years down the future.
You almost got the sense when I was doing that he was -- he was sending a message to people like Senator Kennedy and a lot of people like him. He's going to keep working. He believes that work is keeping him alive.
BROWN: What an incredible attitude he has. And we certainly, we should say, wish him the absolutely best in a tough fight that he has ahead of him.
GUPTA: Yes. He's going to look bad for a while. But even when he is at his worst in terms of how he looks, the chemo is probably working and hopefully making him better.
BROWN: And, Sanjay, let me shift gears here, because you're about to leave for Arizona, where Senator McCain is going to be releasing his medical documents. And I know it's happening under some very unusual and very strident reporting restrictions, right?
GUPTA: It's kind of bizarre, frankly. We're going to go into this sort of closed-off room. We're look at his -- he's 71-years-old. He has a lot of medical records, hundreds and hundreds of pages. They are going to give us three hours to look at the medical records.
They're going to make us put away all our electronic devices. You can't talk to anybody. You simply have to take as many notes as you can and then walk out and try and condense all this. So, it's going to be challenging, even for a doctor. I can't imagine what we're going to find necessarily. But, tomorrow, Friday, we should have a lot of information.
BROWN: Why do they think they're doing it this way? Who knows?
(CROSSTALK)
GUPTA: And Memorial Day weekend.
BROWN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
GUPTA: I don't know. They're hoping you don't pay attention? I don't know. I don't know what is going on exactly. But, hopefully, I will be talking to you and telling you what I found.
BROWN: Well, good. We look forward to it. Sanjay Gupta, appreciate it.
GUPTA: Thanks.
BROWN: Don't forget, this weekend, Sanjay and the CNN Special Investigations Unit, we should also mention, will take an in-depth look at what it takes to keep a president in tip-top shape. You can see "The First Patient: Health and the Presidency" Saturday and Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time.
Tonight, the president and the Congress are engaged in a bitter showdown, and it looks like Congress is the winner. We're going to tell you all about it. That's coming up next in the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead, Congress and the oil executives. I'm going to take you inside the stagecraft of today's congressional hearing.
But first, Randi Kaye is joining us with "The Briefing" -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Campbell.
Tonight, a showdown between President Bush and Capitol Hill. And it looks like the president may lose.
A short time ago, the House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to override the president's veto of a nearly $300 billion farm bill. The Senate is expected to follow suit, perhaps later tonight. The bill is loaded with election year subsidies for farmers, plus food stamp money for the poor. The president says the bill is too expensive and gives too much money to wealthy farmers who just don't need it.
America's biggest power supplier is at risk for a cyber-attack that could blackout millions of homes and businesses. A new report says the Tennessee Valley authority does not have the proper computer security and hackers could knockout its entire grid unless changes are made.
And travelers, listen up. American Airlines wants to charge customers $15 to check one piece of baggage. American is the first major U.S. airline to go that far. Several carriers now charge for a second checked bag. But, of course, you can still carry on your bags free of charge -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Randi.
And we should mention too, we're going to hear from you later tonight on an "A.C. 360" story on the smiley face killers. This is an alleged serial murder gang that may be responsible for up to 40 deaths.
Here's a preview of Randi's piece.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAYE (voice-over): We find it on a tree at the port of Albany, New York. A smiley face painted in white staring back at us.
(on-camera): What do you see here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I see is a circle, two eyes, a nose, no mouth, but it clearly represents a smiley face.
KAYE: Bill Szostak believes this smiley face was left behind by someone who killed his son -- 21-year-old Joshua Szostak body washed up in the Hudson River last month.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: And don't miss Randi Kaye's full report. That's on "A.C. 360" tonight at 10:00 Eastern time.
If you were hoping Capitol Hill does something, anything about oil prices, well, Tom Foreman is about to show us one of the things that Congress does best. Everyone who wants to see some political stagecraft, raise your right hand.
You are in the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: With Americans sick of gas prices hovering near $4 a gallon, drivers are screaming to their members of Congress. So what's a lawmaker to do? Well, try some political stagecraft, of course. And there was plenty of it when the big men from big oil came to Capitol Hill today.
Tom Foreman is joining me now from Washington.
And, Tom, what did they do?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, congressional hearings are one of the oldest and most reliable forms of political stagecraft. All the way back in the 1950s, there were hearings on suspected communism and organized crime and these electrified the country because they easily cast some people as villains and others as heroes.
So look at the first thing that they had these big oil executives do when they showed up today. Raise your hand and swear to tell the truth. This is something that you see in another place, in court and on crime shows, where the implication is that maybe these folks are not entirely trustworthy.
BROWN: And, Tom, the whole lay out of these hearings does put witnesses on the defensive, doesn't it?
FOREMAN: Yes, it really is designed that way. Even the geography of the hearing room does that. Take a look at this.
They're supposed to be about what the witnesses have to say. But look who's up front. It's all the people who are going to throw the questions. The witnesses are actually at a lower level down here.
So you actually have a lower level, the questioners are higher. Their lighting is very good up here, all the people who are going to throw the questions, and they get to direct every scene with their questions and comments. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SPECTER: We are obviously at a crisis, national, international, with the escalating cost of oil, and the intolerable process of gasoline at the pump.
SEN. HERB KOHL (D), WISCONSIN: Last year, for example, Exxon Mobil reported all-time record profits.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), JUDICIARY CMTE. CHAIRMAN: Last year, what was your compensation?
J. STEPHEN SIMON, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT EXXON MOBIL: In total, about $12.5 million.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Well, the storyline, you heard it right there today. Our constituents are paying too much for gas and you big oil guys are getting rich -- Campbell.
BROWN: Still, Tom, I have seen on occasion witnesses actually turn the tables sometimes and steal the scene, so to speak. But that could be a danger, couldn't it?
FOREMAN: Yes, sure, Campbell. As you know, but even superstar witnesses like the baseball players and those steroid hearings are just such a disadvantage here. The chairperson can gavel the mount of order. They can be cited for contempt. The stagecraft is designed to make the witnesses look weak and the committee look strong.
And if you need any further proof of that that these hearings are somehow fundamentally about putting on a show, well, just consider this.
The simple truth is, as I mentioned in the beginning, hearings were a big deal on TV back in the 1950s. But it took 20 more years until the 1970s before Congress agreed to allow regular daily deliberations in the House and the Senate to be televised -- Campbell.
BROWN: And that, of course, is not at all about stagecraft. Tom Foreman for us again tonight. Thanks, Tom.
And there's a lot more politics ahead on "LARRY KING LIVE" at the top of the hour. He's going to be wrestling with some of the key issues in the campaign. Larry, who is with us -- Larry is joining us now. Who do you have tonight, Larry?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Good -- good line there, Campbell. Very hip.
Jesse Ventura is with us, wrestling it all. Telling it like it is. He's got something to say about everything, and he says it.
Then we have an exclusive interview with Elizabeth Edwards. We're going to ask about Ted Kennedy and his just-diagnosed cancer. Plus, breaking news from that YFZ Ranch in Texas, all at the top of the hour on "LARRY KING LIVE." Wrestle that one, Campbell.
BROWN: All right. A lot going on tonight. We'll be watching, Larry. Thanks.
The Republicans try to be the party of values. But given the economy and the war, are they a party in peril right now? We're going to talk to our political panel about that, coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: So John McCain needs a running mate, and it sounds like he is already looking and doing a little interviewing perhaps.
I've got tonight's political panel with me right now. CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger, CNN political contributor Leslie Sanchez, a Republican strategist and a former adviser to President Bush, and CNN political analyst Roland Martin, who is married to a Baptist minister and has written a book on faith in everyday life.
Just giving a little more background on everybody tonight. So --
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Hey, where did that come from? OK.
BROWN: I just wanted people to know all those wonderful things about you, Roland.
MARTIN: I'm not scared. Not scared at all.
BROWN: We're going to talk about John McCain because, Gloria, I know you've been doing a lot of reporting on this. He's having this barbecue this weekend.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
BROWN: A Friday barbecue.
BORGER: A barbecue at the ranch.
BROWN: Yes, right. And they've invited an unusual selection of people to join them at the ranch for the barbecue. What can you tell us about what's going on?
BORGER: Well, he's invited his good friend, ha, ha, Mitt Romney...
BROWN: Right.
BORGER: ... and Mitt Romney's -- and Mitt Romney's wife. He's invited Charlie Crist, the governor of Florida. He's invited the governor of Louisiana, Jindal, and also people from business who have helped him out, you know, staffers.
BROWN: And McCain is saying this is all just social.
BORGER: Right. So, right. So "The New York Times" puts out a story this afternoon by a terrific reporter saying, oh, look he's inviting these vice presidential contenders to his home, and this is all about the selection process.
Well, we all got on the phone here with the McCain people. The McCain people said, he's grilling, Gloria. He loves to grill, and we're not talking about grilling vice presidential candidates. But he does want to sort of socialize with these folks and this is all about --
BROWN: See how they get along.
BORGER: Building the relationships. Building relationships and so, you know, I would say there probably wouldn't be a lot of alcohol served at this event. I don't know. But it's all a part of the process.
BROWN: OK, Leslie, you are the Republican here. What do you think is going on?
(CROSSTALK)
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's not the dating game.
BROWN: I know. But, you don't believe for a second that this is a social occasion. I mean, Charlie Crist, Bobby Jindal, Mitt Romney -- I mean, they are three leading contenders.
SANCHEZ: The Republicans socialize. I know it's new, and you know --
BROWN: Oh, come on. Mitt Romney, I mean, that's no secret.
SANCHEZ: Look at this. No, but --
BROWN: You got to concede that he wouldn't be there were it not --
SANCHEZ: I think it's a great -- I mean if you think Mitt Romney, there's a lot of conservatives out there that are still no Mitt, no money. You know, when it comes to endorsements of John McCain, he's a great ally to have.
BROWN: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: You have Jindal, in fact, that he's an ethnic minority, young blood, super rising star in the Republican Party, critical state, great person to be associated with, and all the energy he brings to the party.
And a state like Florida. I mean, how can you ignore that? You have such a diverse population. Obviously, you know, the Jewish vote, the Catholic vote, a critical conservative base there.
BROWN: And that makes them all leading contenders. Who do you like?
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: It makes them all represent -- I actually like -- I like them all. They make them all interesting aspects of the Republican coalition, and I think that's the important part.
MARTIN: You know what, Campbell --
BROWN: Is that the message they're trying to send, Roland?
MARTIN: Look, you know --
BROWN: Just look how diverse we are. Look at the young talent in this party.
MARTIN: No.
SANCHEZ: They like to eat.
MARTIN: No, no.
BROWN: No one's buying that, Leslie. No one. Go ahead, Roland.
MARTIN: All John McCain is doing is doing a trial balloon. He's throwing these three names out there to see how the base is going to respond to it.
Frankly, I'm a little insulted. I'm going to be in Phoenix this weekend.
SANCHEZ: You didn't get invited, did you?
MARTIN: I didn't get invited, and I like to grill too. But let me say this here. I still believe that Mike Huckabee should be given consideration because out of all these three, Huckabee is strong among evangelicals. He complements McCain.
And so, I still think -- so, you know, John, send Mike an invite because he's going to help you a lot more than Mitt Romney. And, Jindal, he's a new governor, he barely even knows his way around the capital. Frankly, leave him there.
I really think probably out of those three, I think Romney and Crist are probably really the top two. Jindal is just too fresh in the governor's mansion.
BORGER: This isn't the whole list though, Roland. And, you know, McCain is probably having a little fun here. You know, he's inviting these folks down to the ranch. That's what he has done throughout this campaign.
So when his folks say to me we're not auditioning people at this event for vice president --
MARTIN: Yes, right.
BORGER: Well, I kind of -- I kind of believe them. I do believe them on that, but I would also say that this is about saying thank you to folks, and this is about building relationships and see how the chemistry is.
BROWN: And John McCain does have a sense of humor. He's probably tweaking the press a little bit intentionally with it anyway.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Yes, absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Of course. It shows that he likes to cook. I mean, there's a lot of very positive things here.
MARTIN: Oh, yes, right, like John --
SANCHEZ: But to be fair, Gloria has exactly a good point. You know, we're all talking about it. It's an interesting point, and it does show the diversity of the coalition. More than anything, what it may be a cabinet or people that would influence --
MARTIN: Leslie, what diversity?
SANCHEZ: There's nothing wrong with that. He's having a conversation. These are important leaders in the party.
MARTIN: I love this whole diversity of the coalition. You got one guy. Real diverse. Look.
BORGER: We're not talking about lobbying.
MARTIN: Right.
BORGER: You know, the question of lobbyists in the campaign, and we're talking about --
BROWN: All right. We'll get to that too.
But when we return, our panel is going to tackle the politics of oil and gas right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And ELECTION CENTER alert right now. Senator Hillary Clinton is speaking tonight at a campaign stop in Florida. And here's what she said just moments ago.
Listen up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Under George Bush, we have cut the budget of the National Institutes of Health. We have cut the budgets of the National Science Foundation and our other federal government scientific agencies. That is a bad decision. We need to be funding our scientists, our researchers, our technicians to break through the boundaries, to think about creating a new future. This great university is poised to do even more of that. When Donna Shalala was the Secretary of Health and Human Services, the most successful secretary in that history of our country, she understood the importance of nurturing young scientists. And we're going to unleash all of that open inquiry and once again be leading the world.
And it will start with my becoming president and asking the Congress to send me the bill that George Bush vetoed so we can start doing stem cell research funded with federal dollars in America.
(APPLAUSE)
And once we begin, once to put health care at the top of our agenda, we've got to be sure that we provide health care that is high quality and affordable for every single American. I have proposed a plan that I believe would do just that.
The Congress has a good health care plan for itself and for federal employees. About nine million Americans are covered. I would like to see us open that to everyone. And if you have health insurance, and you're happy with it, you will keep what you have. But if you're uninsured or your insurance doesn't cover what you need, you will have the same right as a member of Congress, to choose from over 250 choices.
And these are good plans. And we will get the price down for everybody. And we will improve the quality as we cover everyone. This is the kind of step that we must take in America for moral and economic reasons.
(APPLAUSE)
I am the only candidate left running for president who has a universal health care plan. So if you believe, as I do, that it's pastime for our nation to achieve this, then let's keep going to make it a central part of the agenda of the next president.
(APPLAUSE)
And I will work to make sure that education remains a passport to opportunity for our young people, starting with more preschool education so we can get kids off to a better start, so they can be successful in school. I will end No Child Left Behind. It is not working the way it was intended.
(APPLAUSE)
And I will do whatever I can to make college affordable so that every family can look forward to sending their young person to college.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Senator Hillary Clinton at the University of Miami in Coral Gables where the crowd at this event was chanting, count our votes, count our votes.
And back with me again is CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger, CNN political contributor Leslie Sanchez, and CNN political analyst Roland Martin as well.
And I -- she also said at the top of this event, we should mention, that Florida has to count, that she is not going to give up. And then earlier today, guys, she told "The Associated Press" that she might take this Florida battle all the way to the floor of the convention.
What -- you know, if you're the Obama campaign right now, how excited are you about that? Gloria?
BORGER: Not at all excited about that. When you talk to people inside the Clinton campaign, they reassure you and say, don't worry. We are not going to take this to the floor of the convention. We're going to --
BROWN: But why is she saying it then?
BORGER: She is very interesting. She has lately, not just today but in some recent speeches, she's started making counting votes in Florida and Michigan a civil rights issue. She's talked about abolitionists and suffragettes and counting your votes, and that's what she worked for as a young student.
And so, she's kind of made this an issue larger than Florida and Michigan. And if she feels that the results of that May 31 meeting of the Rules Committee...
BROWN: Right.
BORGER: ... doesn't turn out the way she wants it, it's going to be hard for her to climb down off that tree.
BROWN: Roland, why don't you think the Obama campaign has stepped in here and tried to, you know, come to some sort of compromise?
MARTIN: Campbell?
BROWN: Yes?
MARTIN: I'm sorry. I didn't get the audio of that. Look.
BROWN: No. I was just saying, why do you think the Obama campaign hasn't tried to step in, tried to reach a compromise, tried to broker some sort of deal at this stage of the game?
MARTIN: Here's the deal. You got to get to 2,026. I mean, look, she wants to count all of them, which remember, is completely different what she originally said when she said they're not going to count for anything. And so, you're not going to sit here and cut your own throat. You don't cut a deal until you got the nomination in the bag. That's just common sense.
If the roles were reversed, she'd be doing the exact same thing. May 31 is going to be key. And so, I think you're going to see the pressure put on the superdelegates.
Look, if she wants to keep threatening going to the convention, end this thing right now. Get the 2,026, and then say fine, we'll give you whatever you want. We already have the nomination.
BROWN: Do you agree with that?
SANCHEZ: No. I think May 31 is going to be the starting point of what's going to be a long series of deliberations.
BORGER: You hope.
SANCHEZ: No. I'm the broken record here. I'm the one that she's taking this thing all the way to Denver. We've been talking about Denver. I'm either crazy or brilliant.
I mean, it's really -- and I think there's many Republicans who agree that this is not a campaign that looks like it's slowing down in any way.
MARTIN: Campbell?
SANCHEZ: I do want to talk briefly about if we can her speech. Some of the things she said. I want to end No Child Left Behind, the one most significant piece of legislation that Senator Kennedy, you know, was very much a champion of, that ended the disparity with African-American and Hispanic children and white children, for the first time you're seeing that.
I think she needs to be very cautious about who she's talking to. She's speaking to the teachers unions, but there's a lot of children in there that are affected.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Campbell?
BROWN: Quickly, Roland, go ahead.
MARTIN: If she goes to the convention and trust me, the party is going to come after her, because they're going to say you're going to kill our chances in November.
BROWN: All right, guys. We got to end it there. I appreciate it. Roland, Leslie and Gloria, to all of you, we'll see you back again soon.
You're in the ELECTION CENTER. Stick around. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And coming up tomorrow night on the ELECTION CENTER, Barack Obama is going to be campaigning tomorrow down in Florida. He is going to be speaking at a synagogue there.
There are a lot of people in the Democratic Party who are saying that Obama may have a real challenge or real problem with Jewish voters. The campaign is looking at how to deal with that issue. We'll be talking about that tomorrow night right here on the ELECTION CENTER.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
