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Nancy Grace
Hulk Hogan Family Jailhouse Phone Calls Released
Aired May 27, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, former "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes, and it`s all caught on tape. After a disastrous drag racing crash fueled by alcohol, leaving a 23-year-old passenger with irreversible brain damage, in court, Hulk Hogan`s family crying, begging for leniency. But tonight, Hogan and family caught on tape blaming the comatose victim, whining about the justice system, trying to get star celebrity treatment and house arrest, even scheming to make a buck off a paralyzed victim`s suffering by turning it all into a reality TV show. Hulk Hogan caught on tape and down for the count.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN: I don`t know what type of person John was or what he did to get himself in the situation. I know he was pretty aggressive and used to yell at people and used to do stuff. For some reason, man, God laid some heavy (DELETED) on that kid, man. I don`t know what he was into.
NICK BOLLEA: John was a negative person.
HULK HOGAN: He was what?
NICK BOLLEA: He was a negative person.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really paints the Hogan family in a terrible light. Hulk is saying that this guy, the victim, must have done some bad things in his life and God was punishing him. He is forgetting that Nick was a speed demon, an accident waiting to happen, who crashed this car recklessly, who was apparently drinking beforehand. I mean, it`s just outrageous. You know, this family just had absolutely no regard and still has no regard for what happened to the victim or the victim`s family here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: It should have been the most beautiful and sacred day of their lives, their wedding day, a gorgeous outdoor twilight wedding just before sunset, when bullets tore through the crowd, the bride shot between the eyes, the groom takes it in the mouth and neck. Miracle, they lived. Tonight, the investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bride and groom shot at their own wedding. Police say 40-year-old Michael Beavers (ph) and 35-year-old wife Melissa Smith (ph) were celebrating their marriage with family and friends. But that celebration soon turned sour after the couple allegedly getting into a dispute with Patrick Duvall (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy didn`t have no reason to be shooting at my brother like he did. I mean, there was no reason for him to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports say both sides argued about their dogs, the argument soon escalating to gunshots, the bride shot right between the eyes, the groom shot in the mouth and neck, two other victims also taken down by gunfire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes, a disastrous drag racing crash leaving a 23-year-old left with brain damage. Hogan and family now caught on tape blaming the comatose victim, whining about the system, even scheming to make a buck off the whole thing by turning it into a reality TV show. I guess Hogan doesn`t know best.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LINDA, MOTHER: She`s not sad, she`s just acting angry like she just wants the money. John never meant anything to her or Ed. It`s just sad because I really appreciated you kids, and I just miss John and I miss you, too. And it`s, like, she`s not suffering. I am! I have the loss. She could give two (DELETED)
NICK BOLLEA: I`m going to ask them, at least, because I`m in -- I`m in maximum, I`m going to ask them to at least put me in a cell with, you know, like, maybe something with, you know, some bars where I could see some people or something.
HULK HOGAN: OK. All right. Don`t freak out.
NICK BOLLEA: I don`t know. Like, if you could -- if she could call the judge or something, just please ask them to put me on house arrest just so I can get out of here because this is the only place I can be in is here.
HULK HOGAN: OK, Bubba. I`m trying, all right? I`m trying.
NICK BOLLEA: I know. I know. I know. Will you work on that reality deal for me and get that thing lined up so the minute I walk out of wherever I walk out of, it`s there, boom?
HULK HOGAN: Can you do it while you`re on probation?
NICK BOLLEA: Yes. Of course.
HULK HOGAN: Yes. OK. You want to do it with Pink Sneakers or you want to do it with someone else?
NICK BOLLEA: I want to do it where I`ll make the most money.
HULK HOGAN: Well, then, you need to do it with me, Jason and Eric.
NICK BOLLEA: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Where I`ll make the most money? The 23-year-old passenger, the victim in this case, is practically comatose. He has a gag reflex. I think he may be able to respond by blinking his eyes. He`s paralyzed for life. And they`re talking about making money off a reality TV show, whining about their treatment? If you had seen them in court, crying and begging the judge for leniency, and now all of this caught on tape, not just Hogan but his whole family.
Straight out to Noah Levy, senior editor with "In Touch Weekly." What happened, Noah?
NOAH LEVY, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, you know, this is a really interesting example. This is what happens when too much fame happens too soon. This is what happens when, really, anyone who breaks the law can be affected. Nick Hogan is a sad example of someone who broke the law, and unfortunately, I don`t think he`s going to be getting any leniency.
GRACE: Broke the law, and this isn`t the first time. We`re taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Ray Giudice and Anne Bremner. Anne Bremner, the reality is, this is not the first time Nick Hogan has been drag racing. This time, it was fueled by alcohol, and it ends up by leaving a 23-year-old Iraq war veteran paralyzed for life. And he`s trying to make a buck off of it behind bars? You know what? If I were this judge, I would revoke what probation he`s got left after his big eight-month jail sentence in the local jail and have him do the full five years, Anne Bremner. Is it possible?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He`s already been sentenced, Nancy. And the fact is, it`s like making sausage or making laws, it`s not a pretty sight, making reality shows. You know, we don`t know if knew they were being taped, what they were saying, where it would get out...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!
BREMNER: But Nancy...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Stop! That`s not correct. That`s not correct. There are big signs on the telephones in the jail. Ray Giudice, back me up on this.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s right, and...
GRACE: It says, Your calls are monitored. Hello?
GIUDICE: And there`s a jail orientation...
GRACE: We can hear you!
GIUDICE: ... on the first day. I mean, the first day in jail, you are told the rules, the do`s and don`ts. All the inmates, all the jailers know, and there`s a sign between the glass window and the phone that says, Your calls may be monitored.
But more importantly, Nancy, he has not violated his probation. There`s nothing in that probation order says you can`t be a jerk on the phone to your parents, and that`s what he`s being. But what his problem is, and any money he makes from a reality show is going to go to that victim`s family when they win that lawsuit.
GRACE: I want to go out to co-counsel for John Graziano. This is George E. Tragos. Graziano is the 23-year-old victim of this crash, an Iraq war veteran, who will never walk again. Sir, thank you for being with us. Is there nothing in the terms of probation about making money, trying to make money off of this crime?
GEORGE E. TRAGOS, CO-COUNSEL FOR CRASH VICTIM: No, there`s nothing in there at all.
GRACE: Oh!
TRAGOS: It`s just a normal straight probation. And while he`s in jail, it`s going to be hard for him to violate probation.
GRACE: Well, this is what I don`t understand. I`m very surprised at -- no offense -- that knowing that this is Hulk Hogan`s family, that it wasn`t considered that they would try to make a reality TV show. Hey, you know what? Bravo, Spike -- they`re all lining up for this kind of thing.
TRAGOS: Right. But until there`s a judgment or a lawsuit or something to get the money, you know, you can`t get the money. There`s nothing -- there`s no Florida statute that says you can`t have a reality TV show.
GRACE: You know, it just seems wrong to me. And maybe the callers will agree with me about making money off a victim who is lying in a hospital bed.
Back to George E. Tragos joining us, a veteran lawyer out of Clearwater, Florida. George, what condition is your client in?
TRAGOS: Well, right now, he`s in a semi-conscious state. He has -- most of his frontal lobe is missing. He responds to stimuli. He`s going to need 24/7 care the rest of his life.
GRACE: You said part of his frontal lobe of his brain is missing. Didn`t it have to be removed during surgery?
TRAGOS: Part of it did, yes.
GRACE: And about a baseball-sized chunk of his skull had to be removed, as well?
TRAGOS: More than a baseball size.
GRACE: Intensive bleeding to the brain. This guy, an Iraq war veteran, will never be the same.
We are taking your calls. Out to Stefan in Kentucky. Hi, Stefan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you.
GRACE: Thank you very much. You can tell the defense attorneys out tonight. I don`t think Bremner and Giudice will agree with you, but...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think they will...
GRACE: ... what`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think they will, either. Listen, these celebrities just really make me sick. I wanted to know, is there any way, having these tapes that they recorded -- will this help them if they sue in the civil court to get money from these people?
GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go out to Kim Kohn, also co-counsel for John Graziano, also a veteran trial lawyer out of the Clearwater area. What about it? If there is a civil lawsuit, which I know that there is, can these tapes be used in court, Kim Kohn?
KIM KOHN, CO-COUNSEL FOR CRASH VICTIM: Yes, I think these tapes are definitely going to be able to be used to show the pattern, the lack of remorse, to show the admissions of guilt by Nick Bollea, to show the recklessness on behalf of Linda and Terry Bollea and their continuing pattern of recklessness and basically negligible parenting with Nick Bollea. Instead of having him sit there and think about what he did to John Graziano and have some remorse, they`re thinking about how to make a buck.
GRACE: Oh, hey, while I`ve got the lawyers on the phone, also with me, too, veteran trial lawyers, this guy, who is being given very good treatment behind bars -- he`s only got an eight-month stint in the local county jail. Hello? It`s like Andy of Mayberry. Have you seen that jail? Long story short, he`s whining, saying if he knew he had a cell without windows, he would have demand a jury trial.
Let`s take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN: I don`t know what type of person John was or what he did to get himself in the situation. I know he was pretty aggressive and used to yell at people and used to do stuff. For some reason, man, God laid some heavy (DELETED) on that kid, man. I don`t know what he was into.
NICK BOLLEA: John was a negative person.
HULK HOGAN: He was what?
NICK BOLLEA: He was a negative person.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LINDA: She`s not sad, she`s just acting angry like she just wants the money. John never meant anything to her or Ed. It`s just sad because I really appreciated you kids and I just miss John and I miss you, too. And it`s, like, she`s not suffering. I am! I have the loss. She could give two (DELETED)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA: I`m going to ask them, at least, because I`m in -- I`m in maximum, I`m going to ask them to at least put me in a cell with, you know, like, maybe something with, you know, some bars where I see some people or something.
HULK HOGAN: OK. All right. Don`t freak out.
NICK BOLLEA: I don`t know. If you could -- if she could call the judge or something, just please ask them to put me on house arrest just so I can get out of here because this is the only place I can be in is here.
HULK HOGAN: OK, Bubba. I`m trying, all right? I`m trying.
NICK BOLLEA: I know. I know. I know. I know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, boo-hoo! He`s in a cell without a window. His victim is lying in a hospital bed for the rest of his life, part of his brain removed. Why? Because Hulk Hogan`s son was on his third, that we know of, drag racing incident, fueled by alcohol.
We are taking your calls. Out to Kerry in Ohio. Hi, Kerry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. I just had a question. I feel bad for both families. I just wondered where the shared responsibility is. The man was an adult. He got in the car drag racing with an intoxicated person.
GRACE: Interesting question. Let`s go out to George Tragos. What did your client allegedly know? Why would it be his fault for getting into the car? Did he plan to go drag racing that night?
TRAGOS: He didn`t plan to go drag racing. He didn`t plan to speed on a wet road. He didn`t plan to spin out. He didn`t plan to hit a tree. I mean, can you blame the tree for being there, so it`s not Nick`s fault because there was a tree there? I mean, it`s ridiculous.
GRACE: Tell me the conditions around the drag racing. What happened?
TRAGOS: They were drag racing, called light-to-light drag racing.
GRACE: What`s that?
TRAGOS: They were drag racing a Viper that was also owned by Hulk Hogan, with a friend of his driving. They would drag race from light to light. They would try to beat each other. They`d stop at a light, got green, they`d drag to the next light. It was a wet road. They spun out. There was a tree in the median, smashed into a tree with a car that had over 500 horsepower, that was a totally modified Supra (ph), modified for racing by Nick. And Nick had been drinking. He had a blood alcohol level of .05.
GRACE: Whew! Out to Sheryl McCollum, former director of Mothers Against Drunk Driving in the state of Georgia. Sheryl, weigh in.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, FORMER DIR. OF MADD GEORGIA: Nancy, this is absolutely asinine. When I hear Nick Hogan`s mother say she`s the one that`s lost something? She gets to visit her son three days a week for an hour in a private area. She hasn`t lost anything. John is the one who`s gotten a life sentence. What`s Nick going to do, eight months?
GRACE: He`s not going to do eight months, Sheryl. Eight months in the county jail means about three months in the county jail.
MCCOLLUM: Oh, Absolutely.
GRACE: That`s what that means. And he`s whining he doesn`t have a window.
Everybody, they are caught on tape. And I got to tell you, I have always been a very big Hulk Hogan fan. And I always see them in the magazines. The wife is all gorgeous and beautiful, the daughter, the family. And hearing them tonight really turns me off.
Take a listen, everybody, Hulk Hogan and his family caught on tape, whining about the justice system, blaming the victim as if it`s the victim`s fault that he`s practically comatose with brain damage now. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA: Will you work on that reality deal for me and get that thing lined up so the minute I walk out of wherever I walk out of, it`s there, boom?
HULK HOGAN: Can you do it while you`re on probation?
NICK BOLLEA: Yes. Of course.
HULK HOGAN: Yes. OK. You want to do it with Pink Sneakers or someone else?
NICK BOLLEA: I want to do it where I`ll make the most money.
HULK HOGAN: Well, then, you need to do it with me, Jason and Eric.
NICK BOLLEA: OK.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN: You know, if I`m producing the show, I won`t screw you. You know that?
NICK BOLLEA: Yes. Of course.
HULK HOGAN: I`ll get you everything. I`ll make you an owner.
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
HULK HOGAN: You`d own the show.
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
HULK HOGAN: So let me get to work on that with Eric. It`s a lot easier, too.
NICK BOLLEA: OK. Cool.
HULK HOGAN: So dude, we can get that pulled off, dude.
NICK BOLLEA: Reality.
HULK HOGAN: "The New Nick." We`ll call it "The New Nick" or something.
NICK BOLLEA: "New Nick."
HULK HOGAN: Or something. We`ll have to come up with a good name. Think of a good name.
NICK BOLLEA: I`ll be thinking of a good name. It would be reality -- How I`m getting back on my feet, and how I`m recovering after this. Celebrity out of jail.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: I`ll tell you, brother, there is no "New Nick." Nick is scheming behind bars to make money off the suffering of an Iraq war veteran. We are talking about Baby Hogan, Hulk Hogan`s son -- drag racing, alcohol-fueled, an Iraq war veteran now in a semi-conscious state, frontal lobe, part of it removed, part of the skull removed. He will never, ever walk again, just now barely responding.
Out to Tracy Dennis, psychology professor. Tracy, did you hear them talking about turning this whole thing into a reality show about them?
TRACY DENNIS, PSYCHOLOGY PROF., HUNTER COLLEGE: Yes, it`s pretty appalling. And in an ironic way, this family might actually feel like they`re the victims. If they`re used to celebrity and power, using money to get their way, they may actually feel that this is being extremely unfair to them because they can`t use money to get out of this situation, and they may feel like they`re being victimized.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA: They put me in a room, like, all the way down at the end of this long hall with no guard at the end. And the room, when it closes, it`s really dark inside and there`s no lights in it.
HULK HOGAN: Yes.
NICK BOLLEA: When the door closes, there`s no windows at all. I can`t see out or anything. So if I knock on the door, I don`t know if anyone can hear me or anything. I`m, like, I`m really freaking out.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA: I`m just sitting there, counting the minutes on my hand -- fingers -- just trying to...
LINDA: I just feel so bad you`re there because, truthfully, Nicky, you don`t deserve to be there. And ultimately, John doesn`t need to be where he is. But you know what? You guys were best friends. I knew you (ph) better than his own mother knew him. Would you agree on that?
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
LINDA: I mean, and anybody would agree. And she has no other recourse other than to be nasty and vindictive now, you know, because if she really knew you, if she really knew the relationship between you and John and Danny, she`d be sad right now. She wouldn`t be mad, you know, she`d just be devastated, like I am.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: The family of Hulk Hogan, along with Hulk Hogan, caught on tape whining like they`re the victims after their son, drinking, drag racing, crashes into a fixed object, a tree, and completely paralyzes an Iraq war veteran. We contacted the Hogan family tonight. No comment.
Back to Noah Levy, senior editor with "In Touch Weekly." Noah, again, thank you for being with us. Noah, do you really believe that they will make a reality show out of this, something like "The New Nick"? He`s not new, he`s the same old self behind bars, scheming to make a buck.
LEVY: Well, exactly. I mean, you brought up the point. This is someone who shows no recourse (SIC). But you have to remember these are celebrities who wanted a reality show. They welcome cameras into their home. And you know what? They`re getting their way. This is the ultimate reality show now. You know, we see the ups, and now, unfortunately, the downs of their lives, and we get to see everything, if they like it or not.
GRACE: To Eben Brown, reporter with Metro Networks joining us out of Tampa, Florida. Eben, this is such a light sentence, eight months, with a guy having half his brain removed.
EBEN BROWN, METRO NETWORKS: Oh, it is a lighter sentence, and he is sitting in a jail cell, even though he`s by himself. He does have no windows. He`s in an area where he`s isolated from other adult inmates. Even though he`s only 17, Nick Hogan is only 17, he was charged, tried and convicted as an adult.
GRACE: Well, that`s not unusual, Eben, that`s normal.
BROWN: Right. But they did put him in their own isolated facility so he wouldn`t...
GRACE: But that`s for his own...
BROWN: ... have to be bothered by anybody.
GRACE: Yes, that`s for his own comfort and protection, Eben Brown.
BROWN: Yes, but now he`s asking to be let out.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA: I miss going to the Sandpearl (ph) with you.
LINDA: I know! I`m at the beach all by myself! It`s not the same!
NICK BOLLEA: I miss sitting out on the water on the boat with you. I miss just getting into the Escalade and going to Orlando.
LINDA: I know, baby! We`re going to do all of that, OK? We`re going to do everything, but...
NICK BOLLEA: I wrote down...
LINDA: ... we`re not going to do it here in (DELETED) Florida!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: I miss the Escalade! I miss going out on the boat! Are you kidding me? The victim is laying in a hospital bed with half of his brain missing because Hulk Hogan`s son was speeding on booze, drag racing at the time of the incident.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Darlene in Maryland. Hi, Darlene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You`re awesome.
GRACE: Thank you. I don`t think the defense bar agrees with you, but thank you very much. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do the doctors know what quality of life this young man will have with this traumatic brain injury?
GRACE: Out to Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner. What about it, Doctor?
DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH COUNTY CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, he`s got what sounds like severe brain damage. And I also believe that he`s for the most part on a ventilator. So he`s going to be fighting off infections, pneumonia and other types of infections for the rest of his life.
GRACE: Will he ever walk again, Doctor?
BELL: I seriously doubt it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK HOGAN, HULK HOGAN`S SON: I`m really freaking out, Dad, because you know how they said they were going to move me?
HULK HOGAN, WRESTLEMANIA AND REALITY TV STAR: Yes.
N. HOGAN: OK. Well, the captain came in and said he could move me, you know? So he said that he was going to put me in this area, you know, but -- he said he can move me but he can`t put me with other people because of my age, you know?
H. HOGAN: Yes.
N. HOGAN: So he said, yes, (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He moved me to security. I`m in maximum security and they put me in this room that`s like -- it`s like the other at least had, like, one window where I can see out to the yard, you know, and I could wave at him and I could, like, you know, at least get his attention.
H. HOGAN: Yes.
N. HOGAN: I`m just sitting there counting the minutes on my hand fingers, you know, just trying to.
LINDA HOGAN, HULK HOGAN`S WIFE: I just feel so bad that you`re there because truthfully, Nicky, you don`t deserve to be there and ultimately John doesn`t need to be where he is. But you know what? You guys were best friends, I knew him better than his own mother knew him. Would you agree on that?
N. HOGAN: Yes.
L. HOGAN: Yes. I mean -- and anybody would agree and she has no other recourse other than to be nasty and vindictive now. You know? Because if she really knew you, if she really knew the relationship between you and John and Danny, she`d be sad right now. She wouldn`t be mad. You know? She`d be devastated like I am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, I`m sure that mom is not the least bit concerned that her son is now missing part of his brain, that he will never walk again. That he will likely be on a ventilator the rest of his life.
You are hearing, caught on tape, wrestling -- "Wrestlemania" star, reality TV star, Hulk Hogan and his family, all whining about the justice system. After a sweetheart deal, largely probation, you should hear them caught on tape.
We are taking your calls live. Out to the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Anne Bremner.
To you, Ray Giudice, do you think their lawyer dropped the ball by not informing them that they would be taped on their phone calls?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No.
GRACE: I mean there`s a placard that says so.
GIUDICE: Yes, and I`m sure he did. Just the same, looking back on this case and the gruesome facts, their criminal defense lawyer gave them great legal services and now this is just buyer`s remorse. I`m sure we`ll see a new lawyer coming in with what`s called a motion for reconsideration.
But they better be careful. They might just get the judge to reconsider and it may not go the way they want it to go.
GRACE: You know what, Anne Bremner -- Anne Bremner joining us -- high profile lawyer -- out of Seattle. Ray Giudice is actually correct. I can see them going and hiring another lawyer. This Kevin Hayslett guy.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: . did them a great job, getting what I would consider aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, that being the vehicle, down to injury after speeding. Basically the max is five years and the judge gave him a slap on the wrist, eight months. I think the lawyer did a great job.
But I can see them going and hiring another lawyer for a motion for reconsideration on that sentencing. If I were the judge, I`d reconsider it, all right.
BREMNER: Yes, I know what you`ll do.
GRACE: Are these tapes -- can these tapes be played before a judge on the motion for reconsideration?
BREMNER: Well, sure. But I know exactly what you`d do, Nancy, in a motion to reconsider. But the fact is, is that, sure, they can be played now. But I think they`re more important in a civil case. And the other thing is there was some very bad advice given by lawyers saying that this would be private and there wouldn`t be monitoring of the phone calls.
GRACE: I don`t know that the lawyers told them that there would not be monitoring, Anne Bremner.
BREMNER: We knew that, though, Nancy.
GRACE: Anybody that can read can see the placards at the jail.
BREMNER: Maybe.
GRACE: They`re not (INAUDIBLE). They`re pay phones and, of course, you`re in a correctional institute.
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: Of course you`re going to be taped.
GIUDICE: But even so, why wouldn`t you be more circumspect? I mean why wouldn`t you -- why wouldn`t your conversation be about, hey, let`s get this over, let`s move on with your life, you know, let`s write a letter to the family...
GRACE: You know what, Ray?
GIUDICE: I mean why wouldn`t you handle it that way?
GRACE: You`re just as bad as them. Me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Let`s get us through this hurdle, eight months behind bars. You`re kidding.
GIUDICE: Well, I mean, look.
GRACE: That`s why (INAUDIBLE), pick up some trash?
GIUDICE: No, I mean, he`s got to get through five years of probation. He`s got to get his mind wrapped around those restrictions so he can live up to it. So he doesn`t get revoked. That`s what their focus should be.
GRACE: You know what? To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, the reality is, this guy, Baby Hogan, Hulk Hogan`s son, is a habitual drag racer. He`s been caught in speeds around 100 miles an hour and this finally happened.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: More than once over 100 miles an hour, Nancy. He went to a reality show but his whole family is totally out of touch with reality. The whole family is a freak show, Nancy. I mean look at Hulk Hogan in court.
If he was in any other jurisdiction, he would -- they would have said remove that had, remove that thing off your head, or they would have stepped him back. You know, you want to see some real tears from Little Nicky? Let`s put him in general population and then we`ll be hearing some real tears.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Jennifer in Alabama. Hi, Jennifer.
JENNIFER, ALABAMA RESIDENT: How can they say that the victim that was injured is a negative person? He was defending his country for them while he`s so much...
GRACE: You know what, Jennifer in Alabama? You are so correct.
Rosy, could you cue that tape up caught on tape claiming that all of this came down on the victim, an Iraq war veteran, because he`s negative.
Jennifer in Alabama, my father is a World War vet, and I resent what they said about this Iraq war veteran. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H. HOGAN: I don`t know what type of person John was or what he did to get himself in the situation. I know he was pretty aggressive and used to yell at people and used to do stuff. For some reason, man, God laid some heavy (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on that kid. Man, I don`t know what he was into.
N. HOGAN: John was a negative person.
H. HOGAN: He was what?
N. HOGAN: He was a negative person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Tracy Dennis, psychology professor, what is this transferal or projection of guilt onto the victim? He`s lying there with part of his brain removed.
TRACY DENNIS, PSYCHOLOGY PROFESSOR, HUNTER COLLEGE: It`s really hard to understand. I think this family needs a good dose of good old fashioned shame and they need to stop trying to get rid of responsibility and start taking some responsibilities.
GRACE: You know, have they gotten so wealthy and so famous that far from a reality show, they don`t even know what reality is?
DENNIS: They seem really out of touch with reality and being normal, kind human beings.
GRACE: Out to Rorie in Indiana. Hi, Rorie.
RORIE, INDIANA RESIDENT: Hi, how are you tonight?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, but I`m hurt.
RORIE: Yes.
GRACE: . on behalf of this victim`s family.
RORIE: I agree.
GRACE: To hear all this.
RORIE: As a mother, I am appalled that Mrs. Hogan is playing a victim while her son is alive and healthy and this poor boy and his family have to suffer their whole lives. They need a reality check.
GRACE: You know, having seen so many crash victims, to you, Cheryl McCollum, former president of MADD, Moms Against Drunk Driving in Georgia, you know, I`ve had personally walked along with a crash victim, trying to help with their family, re-teaching him to walk, so afraid to hit their head again. You had to walk along with a belt on you, tied to them, seeing them pick up a pen like this, and try to write.
This guy, John Graziano, he`ll never be able to even do that.
SHERYL MCCOLLUM, FMR. DIRECTOR OF MADD, STATE OF GEORGIA: Absolutely. It`s excruciating what his parents are going through, what he`s going through, his sister. He spent more time in Iraq than Nick`s been in jail.
And I`ll tell you something else. Nick, you want a reality show? You got one, partner? You`re filmed 24 hours a day. Enjoy it.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Alice in Arizona. Hi, Alice.
ALICE, ARIZONA RESIDENT: Good evening. I`m your number one fan. My.
GRACE: Thank you.
ALICE: My question is: can the victim`s family sue the Hogans for slander and defamation of character regarding the statements that they made?
GRACE: Excellent question. Out -- excellent question.
Out to Kim Kahn, co-counsel for John Graziano, can they?
KIM KAHN, CO-COUNSEL FOR CRASH VICTIM JOHN GRAZIANO: I don`t think in this situation you`re going to get a slander or defamation suit for the comments they made but it`s certainly going to be relevant in the civil suit, and it`s certainly going to be relevant in a move to move for punitive damages against the Bolleas themselves, or the Hogans themselves, for the outrageous conduct in raising Nick and not stopping Nick from getting on the road and driving in the way in which he did.
GRACE: I think that makes -- to me it`s going to be a tough stretch to blame the parents for what the son did. But these comments that they are making, that`s not the son`s doing. That is Hulk Hogan and his wife.
Out to Lorraine in New Jersey. Hi, Lorraine.
LORRAINE, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I love all the pictures of your twins. They`re really getting big.
GRACE: Thank you. Can you believe it? They`ll be -- they`re coming up on 7 months.
LORRAINE: Oh, my god.
GRACE: What`s your question, love?
LORRAINE: OK. What I wanted to know is, where did they get the alcohol and if they got it from a bar and if the bar tender knew they were drunk and kept feeding them drinks, can the bar tender be held responsible at all?
GRACE: Excellent question. George Tragos, where did Baby Hogan, Nick Hogan, 17 years old, get the booze?
GORGE TRAGOS, CO-COUNSEL FOR CRASH VICTIM JOHN GRAZIANO: Let me just give you the chain of circumstances.
GRACE: In a hurry.
TRAGOS: Number one, we have a video of Hulk Hogan going in with Nick to a liquor store buying liquor. Number two, Hulk Hogan, Nick, everybody gets on a boat. Number three, Nick gets off the boat and he`s got the alcohol in his system. So I don`t know where got it but I think the circumstances may tell you.
GRACE: Man.
When we come back, it should have been the most beautiful and sacred day of their lives, their wedding day, just before sunset. But bullets tear through the crowd. The bride shot between the eyes, the groom in the mouth and the neck. Miracle they lived.
Tonight, the investigation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A wedding, usually one of the happiest days in a couple`s life. But on this day, the bride and groom ended up shot and clinging to life.
Reports say suspect Patrick Duvall apparently got into an argument with the bride and the groom about a dog. Moments later, police say Duvall shot the newlyweds. But the wedding guests didn`t let the suspect escape. They followed the gunman, who was driving a stolen vehicle, to a fast food restaurant, where Duvall was apprehended by authorities.
Police questioning over 30 witnesses, trying to piece together how a bride and groom ended up shot at their own wedding.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: In a beautiful and idyllic setting, just at twilight, just before nightfall, the sun setting, bullets tear through a wedding ceremony. The bride shot between the eyes. The groom shot in mouth and the neck. Bottom line, miracle, they lived.
Tonight, the investigation. Out to Mary Kincy Benefield, with the Russellville Courier, what happened?
MARY KINCY BENEFIELD, NEWS EDITOR, RUSSELLVILLE COURIER: Well, we don`t know a lot right now. The police are being sort of closed mouthed about the details. We do know that at some point after the vows were spoken, apparently someone involved with the wedding got into an argument with Mr. Duvall and he retrieved a handgun and shot four people.
He then somehow got his car stuck in the middle of the creek. It was white utility vehicle that was still at the scene, when I was on scene a couple hours later. Then apparently fled that vehicle, stole another vehicle from a nearby passenger and drove about 10 miles into neighboring Russellville where he was captured by police. He actually surrendered.
GRACE: Incredible.
Eben Brown with Metronetworks, what more can you tell us?
EBEN BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, we know so far that this man was a stranger to the bride and groom, that they didn`t know who he was. He wasn`t someone that they had any type of history with whatsoever. But he is the man that shot them.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks -- weigh in, Mike.
BROOKS: Nancy, this is just a bizarre case. Here they are, out in the middle of a park, having their wedding. And you`ve got this ne`er-do- well, I mean, you know, I don`t even want to talk any second more about him. You know, he comes up there with a weapon and opens fire over some little argument that he had.
You know, if you go back and I think they go back, and look, he`s probably going to have some -- some past records on his own, probably a weapons charge in his past.
GRACE: This is incredible to me that bullets can tear through your wedding ceremony.
I want to go out to Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner. How is it -- the bride was shot between the eyes. Why is it she is going to recover? That seems incredible to me.
DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH CO. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Chances are the bullet path went through the frontal lobes, probably not to the back of her brain but perhaps upwards, and thus spared her, you know, a much worse consequence.
GRACE: I want to go back out to the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Anne Bremner.
To you, Ray Giudice, what is he looking at?
GIUDICE: Well, Nancy, on the aggravated assault -- charges, he`s look at 20 years times four. Four separate counts. You got an auto theft charge. Looks like everyone is going survive. Hopefully that will be the case and won`t be upgraded to any type of a homicide charge.
GRACE: What about it, Anne Bremner?
BREMNER: Well, I agree with the fact, the question is will he be diagnosed for demonizing in this case. I mean he may well have some true issues.
GRACE: Oh, here it comes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Just like, if it didn`t fit, you must acquit. Now it`s diagnosed or demonized. Got a question for you, did you make that up?
BREMNER: No comment. I`ll take credit for it, if you like it.
GRACE: OK, so Anne, when you say diagnosed or demonized, explain, translate for me.
BREMNER: What I`m basically saying, Nancy, in more simpler terms is that either we`re looking at -- some kind of mental defense, because this is so bizarre, or, in fact, he`s really a horrible person and went out and did kind of one of those horrible acts, killing -- trying to kill a bride and groom at their wedding ceremony of all things.
This is a classic case of one or the other.
GRACE: To Tracy Dennis, psychology professor, it`s audacious and I think Anne Bremner is actually correct that there`s got to be some type of mental defense. I mean, the guests at the wedding chased him down. That is how cops finally get him. They chased him down, seeing that he is getting away. They get in their vehicles and they chased the guy from the wedding as the bride and groom are rushed to the emergency room.
The audacity of this shooting, what does it mean?
DENNIS: Well, it does -- a diagnosis I think might be warranted. It doesn`t excuse this behavior and it shouldn`t in a legal context. But he is showing signs of anti-social personality disorder, and that includes a clear lack of empathy for other`s feelings, lawlessness, disregard for laws, impulsivity.
GRACE: Of course that will not rise to a mental defect. It could be a defense in some jurisdictions.
Out to the lines, Ty in Washington. Hi, Ty.
TY, WASHINGTON RESIDENT: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
TY: I was wondering if it`s possible that the shooter knew anybody at the wedding.
GRACE: Excellent question. Back to Mary Kincy Benefield with the Russellville Courier, any connection at all to anyone?
BENEFIELD: Apparently not. I was told by several witnesses at the scene that he may have had some interaction with them. Of course, we would presume that from the altercation. But from what we`re being told by police sources, they did not know one another.
GRACE: To Eben Brown, investigative reporter -- Eben, I understand they got into a verbal argument over their dogs, one of them being a pit bull?
BROWN: It`s a little shaky, Nancy. Somebody insulted the other person`s dog and then somehow this turned into a shooting. And it`s still really up in the air. But this began over words about the opinion of someone else`s dog.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, I`ve seen homicides over something as small as a $10 debt. So I`m not surprised that they had a fight over their dogs. What`s he doing carrying around a 9 millimeter weapon?
BROOKS: Exactly. Well, you know, it`s Arkansas, so a lot of people carry guns in their cars in Arkansas like they do here in Georgia.
GRACE: A lot of people carry guns in their cars all over the country, Mike.
BROOKS: Exactly. But I`m saying, you know, a little argument like that escalates, this guy has got some issues, needless to say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To HEADLINE PRIME`s Glenn Beck. Hi, friend.
GLENN BECK, HOST, GLENN BECK SHOW: Believe it or not, tonight I`m going to defend Hillary Clinton. I saw that RFK statement and that`s not what she said at all. It`s more politics as usual from the media. And this time Barack Obama is involved. I`ll have more on it in just a bit.
Then talk about a Freudian slip. One California congresswoman seems to think the way to get out of the energy crisis is through socialism. Videotape doesn`t lie. Yes, you won`t believe it.
And President Jimmy Carter spent the weekend giving away state secrets from Israel. It`s great.
And he was lovable Mike Seaver on "Growing Pains," written a new book, the life and faith of Kirk Cameron. Coming up, next.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sherry in New Mexico. Hi, Sherry.
SHERRY: Hi, Nancy. Love your kids.
GRACE: Thank you very much. What`s your question, dear?
SHERRY: I`m wondering, can they make that gunman pay for those four people`s hospital bills?
GRACE: Excellent question. Out to Ray Giudice, possible?
GIUDICE: Sure, Nancy, either on a plea deal or a conviction, he can be made to pay restitution, which is a civil order to pay for medical costs and perhaps lost wages and other incidentals.
GRACE: Anne Bremner, what about it?
BREMNER: Absolutely. It`s not dischargeable in bankruptcy either so Ray is absolutely right.
GRACE: Let`s stop, everybody, and remember Army Sergeant, and mom of three, Tracy Renee Birkman, 41, New Castle, Virginia, killed, Iraq, on a third tour. Awarded the Army Commendation Medal and Iraq Campaign Medal. A 20-year vet, had a strong determination. Quickly rose through the ranks. Leaves behind grieving parents, Phyllis and Gerald, sons, Bradley, Joshua and Ryan.
Tracy Renee Birkman, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but most of all to you for being with us tonight. And tonight, a special congratulations to veteran trial attorney Anne Bremner, becoming the first woman in Washington state history to be inducted as a fellow into the International Academy of Trial Lawyers.
Congratulations, Annie, and happy birthday.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
