Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Crane Collapses in NYC; Gas Price Investigation: Are Speculators Manipulating Prices?; Criminal Investigation of Warren Jeffs Proceeds

Aired May 30, 2008 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it has happened again. For the second time since March, look at this, a high rise construction crane collapses in New York City. One person is dead. The mayor calls it intolerable. We are live with the latest.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Lots of tornadoes yesterday, in fact, 55 separate reports of tornado damage. Now that was one tornado for a while skipping along, maybe making 12 different reports. We'll sort all that out today, not quite as severe, but we'll have it from Chicago southward. We'll keep you advised

ROB MARCIANO, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Chad.

Hi, I'm Rob Marciano in the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.

NGUYEN: And I'm Betty Hguyen.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

All right. Get a good look here because this is what crews are dealing with in New York City right now, the wreckage of a huge construction crane. It came down during the morning rush hour on the upper east side of Manhattan. At least one person is dead, two critically hurt.

CNN's Jason Carroll is following the story for us in New York and he joins us live with the latest.

Jason, we understand at least one person has been killed in this.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That is absolutely correct. We are standing just about one block away from where it all happened. Let me show you exactly the crane in question here. There it is. On top of that crane there used to be a cab. That's what they call it, about the size of a fire truck. It snapped off just after 8:00 this morning, fell on to the building next to it, sheared off the side of some of that building as it fell to the ground, killing one person, a construction worker. Two others seriously injured. both of those construction workers.

Just a little earlier, the New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, as well as the acting building commissioner, had a press conference where they talked about the past what had been happening here at the past in the site. There had been several past violations, including working without a permit, moving a hoist without a permit, hoisting a heavy metal object over pedestrians. These are some of the violations that had happened here at this building site before.

Even so, we are told from the mayor that the crane was inspected and it was safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), NEW YORK: The first examination of the records say that this crane was inspected and was installed and stepped in compliance with regulations with building inspectors there. So we don't know why the top just snapped off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: Again this happened just after 8:00 a.m. this morning. Right now I want to bring in two people who saw it all happen. These are two traffic enforcement agents.

You were here at the scene, that is correct?

TASHA MELTON, NYPD TRAFFIC AGENT: Yes.

CARROLL: We have Tasha and we also have Linda.

Let's start with you. Tell me what happened. What did you see just after 8:00?

LINDA TAYLOR, NYPD TRAFFIC AGENT: After 8:00, we were on patrol on First Avenue, 90th Street on the west side of First Avenue. After we finished our patrol there, my partner got into the vehicle and we saw the crane -- I saw the crane coming down. I said oh, my God, Melton the crane is coming down. She jumped out of the vehicle.

The crane came down so fast it was like a loud boom. All the debris was coming toward us. There was construction workers. They were all running everywhere, crying, saying they needed help. We actually got on the portables and we called the emergency response.

CARROLL: And what was that like for you as you were sitting there watching that happen and watching the crane coming down so close to where you were?

MELTON: It was very shocking. Soon as she said, oh, my God, Melton, the crane came down, I jumped out and I got right on the radio and I started to run toward 91st Street. She ran toward 90th Street to divert the traffic and stop all traffic from coming in the block. When I got to 91st Street there were a bunch of construction workers crying and yelling, telling me that there were people inside.

CARROLL: Inside that cab?

MELTON: Yes, underneath the crane. And all I could do was get back on the radio and ask EMS and all the emergency vehicles to hurry up and get to the scene because it was a big ordeal over here.

CARROLL: A lot of people watching this now know that in New York City, we just had another deadly crane accident just about two months ago. When you are seeing something like this happen now once again, how does that sit with you?

TAYLOR: Well, I can't really say how -- I can't even answer that. All I can say is that at that time and moment, I had to react and do what I had to do best which was direct my traffic and make sure nobody else got hurt and not let the vehicles get into the intersection where the crane had fell.

CARROLL: A lot of questions have been asked about the person who was inside that cab that fell off the top of the crane. Did you see that person, any indication of what happened there?

MELTON: I didn't see him. I didn't see anything. All I seen were the people coming out and they were putting them inside the buses. I didn't see anything else.

TAYLOR: I didn't see anybody. I was directing the traffic eastbound. I had shut down the whole 90th Street to make sure none of the vehicles would get into the intersection where the crane had fell because we needed the emergency vehicles to get in and help these people. So as far as seeing anybody getting hurt, I know there's a lot that was hurt, but I didn't get to see that.

CARROLL: Obviously the construction workers were those who were first there rushing in to help anyone who that inside that rubble.

MELTON: Yes, they were.

CARROLL: Thank you very much. Linda and Tasha, thank you both for doing this and glad the both of you are OK.

MELTON: Thank you.

CARROLL: Also want to talk just very quickly Betty about the history of what happened here in New York City. As you may know, it was just about two, two and a half months ago there was another deadly crane accident, once again on the upper east side. Seven people killed in that accident, some 24 people injured. Right after that accident happened, the city came out and said that safety measures would be put in place to ensure that something like this did not happen again.

So obviously a lot of questions about why we are once again seeing yet another deadly crane accident. The question this time was it human error? Was it mechanical error? These are some of the questions being raised now as this investigation moves forward -- Betty.

NGUYEN: No doubt we will wait for those answers, as well. Very quickly though, one person dead, two people hurt.

Anyone still trapped in the building, under the rubble, anything like that?

CARROLL: What we are being told right now is that emergency crews on the ground are doing due diligence by looking through all of the remaining debris that is on the ground. The mayor seemed to indicate that they did not believe anyone else was trapped beneath there, that all the construction workers and people who are in the area have been accounted for. So it is not believed that anyone else is trapped within that wreckage that is on the ground.

But still in the process of looking through that rubbish just to make sure. And also just to make another point, those people who are evacuated from buildings, those people are still being kept outside their buildings, once again, just as a precaution.

NGUYEN: All right. Jason Carroll joining us live.

Thank you Jason.

MARCIANO: Drilling for answers. As U.S. gasoline prices hit record highs for the 23rd day in a row, Federal investigators are trying to find out whether speculators are manipulating oil prices. A probe was launched six months ago by an agency called the Commodities Futures Trading Commission. It was announced only yesterday.

Reaction is mixed. Some say the commission is merely giving into political pressure. They predict the probe will come up dry. Others say the announcement was long overdue. The Commodities Futures Trading Commission won't say much about its investigation, but that hasn't stopped CNN reporters from digging in.

Our Ali Velshi and Poppy Harlow are both standing by. Let's start with senior business correspondent, Ali Velshi.

Ali, what else can you tell us about this investigation?

ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: A lot of people didn't know about the Commodities Futures Trading Commission and nobody knew about this investigation. They came out yesterday and said that they are investigating something to do with the price increases in oil. They started investigating in December. There's been a lot of criticism of this committee by Congress saying why aren't you looking into it.

And the acting chair of the committee has said that he doesn't think speculation is a big part of the price of oil right now. There are some economists who think be a third of the price of oil right now.

Now speculation isn't necessarily illegal and we don't know what this commission is looking into. I spoke to the former director of trading in markets at the commission. He said look, this is a commission that has not done its work. They really have bowed to pressure because they've got to say they're doing something. We did invite the commission to talk to us. They declined to do so. They wouldn't tell us who they are investigating or why or offer us anymore comment.

We did speak to Senator Maria Cantwell who is on the committee which oversees this commission. I asked her what the problem is in the regulation of oil, why there is a problem in terms of oversight of oil trading. Very interesting what she told me. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D), WASHINGTON STATE: There is more regulation on hamburger in America trading on the futures cattle market than there is oil. Yet oil is critical to our U.S. economy. So we should go back and put the regulations and oversight in place so that we don't have speculation and manipulation that we've seen from the lights of Enron and Ameren.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: So there are two problems here Rob. One is that there isn't strong enough regulation of oil trading. So if there is something going on, it's not clear that the regulators or the government would actually know that. The second one is an investigation we think into whether something specifically has been done to manipulate the price of oil. We don't have that information as of now and the Commodities Futures Trading Commission has not given us that information. At the moment at least there is an investigation under way Rob.

MARCIANO: Ali, I know the financial markets can be pretty complicated. But give us a simple example of how traders or investors in oil companies would manipulate the market or the price of oil.

VELSHI: It's a good question. This is by the way one that complicates. If you are talking about let's say manipulating the price of the stock of the company that owns CNN, Time Warner. You would have to have some control over that stock. Maybe you'd leak some news and make the stock go up or do something like that.

In this case, the oil market is so big it's unclear who would manipulate the price of oil unless you are a cartel like OPEC. That doesn't seem to be where this investigation is going. The gentleman we spoke to earlier, the former official at the agency says we could be looking at, they could be investigating trades by hedge funds and large investment pools to see whether they are buying oil and holding it off the market.

Again, entirely speculative at this point as to what they are looking into. We don't actually know.

MARCIANO: We are not done with this story, are we Ali?

VELSHI: No, not at all.

MARCIANO: Thank you, sir.

NGUYEN: If fact, we are not done because CNN's Poppy Harlow at CNNMoney.com, she is also following this investigation and joins us now with the latest.

What have you been able to find?

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Hey there, Betty.

We wanted to take this actually down to the trading floor so we talked to some options traders and people that trade these commodities. The majority of them that we talked to said they make money in this industry. Take a listen to what one of the guys, Mike Fitzpatrick, he's an energy broker. This is what he said. We're going to pull his quote up. He said this investigation is just a way for the government to divert attention away from the fact that it hasn't created a viable energy policy.

He went on to say fundamentals rule the markets. All markets go through fads and attract a lot of speculative money, silver in the 1980s, gold recently. But he says this investigation is going to wind up producing nothing. That's what one trader who has been around keep in mind for about 30 years doing this. That's what he says.

But if you talk to oil executives, they say the prices we are seeing now right around $127 a barrel are inflated. Testifying before Congress last week, they said oil should be trading anywhere from $35 to $90 a barrel, based on simple supply and demand. Of course Betty, as you know, our viewers know, the market is way more complex than that these days. Complex trades, a lot of computers involved. It's pretty difficult to figure it all out, Betty.

NGUYEN: OK. So the investor you spoke with says he doesn't really think much is going to come of this. But haven't we seen a little bit come of it?

HARLOW: We've seen a lot come of it. In terms of this investigation, we just found out about it last night. So we are going to see oil down a bit today but gas, you still see that gauge on the screen. Gas is still at a record high. So he's saying (INAUDIBLE) that's because there is a real question here if there is any wrong doing. The question is what could the CFTC really do?

They can't really bring about any criminal charges so what they can do, they can impose fines. The question again is, will those fines be large enough, if they find any wrong doing, to make people stop this speculative trading? Because it's a liquid market and speculative trading is very much allowed. It's how people make money. So a lot of questions out there.

NGUYEN: They see that oil is down. They think you know what, something is coming of it, at least this to point. Poppy Harlow joining us live.

Thank you, Poppy.

MARCIANO: We want to take you to San Angelo, Texas, where there have been a few developments today in the Texas polygamy case. David Mattingly, our correspondent on the ground there, is now on the phone.

David, what can you tell us is happening now or today at least?

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Rob, we are about to go back into court again after that dramatic Texas state supreme court ruling yesterday that said the state did not have the authority to take all these children into custody. We are now going back into the local court here in San Angelo where we are expecting to hear in this hearing some details about how the children are going to be released and reunited with their families. But again we don't know for sure. But that is something that this court has to do now after being told you've got to let these kids go.

While this is going on outside the courthouse, we have heard and confirmed what the state attorney general's office, that they have taken DNA samples from Warren Jeffs, the imprisoned leader of this sect and they are looking into the possibility of investigating allegations that he married four girls here in Texas ages 12 to 15. So the criminal investigation proceeding, even though the Child Protection Service investigation into abuse was somewhat stymied by the state supreme court. This criminal investigation targeting Warren Jeffs is still very much alive and moving forward.

MARCIANO: David, getting any idea as far as the timeline is concerned when these DNA tests may be coming back with some results and what that may lead down the road?

MATTINGLY: Well, these DNA tests were just recently taken from Warren Jeffs so it's going to take a little while. There are a great many DNA tests taken on the families and the children when they were taken into custody here a couple of weeks ago. The state the last couple of days talked to them.

They were still expecting them maybe a week to 10 days out before they saw those. Those are going to be very helpful in reuniting some of these children with their families because the state has been saying we still have been frustrated trying to match all these children to their biological parents. They are not trusting some of the documentation they are seeing. Once those DNA tests come back, we should start seeing a lot of these children go back. Again, we are going back into court to see what the judge says all about this and to find out what (INAUDIBLE) are going to be about letting these children go back to their families.

MARCIANO: David Mattingly in San Angelo, Texas, thank you.

NGUYEN: What a May for the heartland. Every day it seems tornados have touched down and torn communities apart. Yesterday alone, 55 twisters were spotted across Nebraska, Iowa and Kansas. And today survivors are sifting through what is left of homes and businesses. Now there are no reports of anyone seriously hurt in those storms which did knock out power to thousands. It lifted trains off their tracks, look at that, and swept big rigs off the road.

MARCIANO: Witness the power of a tornado. This is the EF-5 that flattened half of Parkersburg, Iowa on Sunday, my goodness, that's a picture. Debris from that town is turning up more than 100 miles away in Wisconsin. Many of the items are personal, photographs, check stubs, business records, stuff like that. Police are asking anyone who finds anything like that to bring it in.

NGUYEN: Well, threatening storms aren't the only worry today. Chad Myers is on top of all of this in our severe weather center. OK, so it's not just threatening storms. What else do you have on the plate for us? I'm kind of afraid to ask.

(WEATHER REPORT)

NGUYEN: People need to watch and you are definitely going to be a busy man today.

Thank you, Chad.

MARCIANO: The state of Texas has some explaining to do. A short time from now a hearing gets under way on how to carry out a bombshell ruling that could reunite polygamous sect members and their children.

NGUYEN: Also in Washington, decision day approaches for the Democratic Party. We could know tomorrow how the Dems will handle their Florida and Michigan delegate problem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: This just into CNN. We have learned of a plane crash. Honduran media is reporting that a Grupo Taca airplane has overshot the runway while landing in the country's capital injuring some people onboard. Here is video of that coming from the local affiliates there on the ground.

Again, just near the Honduran capital there. Reports say flight 390 was arriving from El Salvador but it ended up stopping on a nearby street. Again it overshot the runway. Ambulances and firefighters are on the scene. There is no immediate reports of any fatalities at this point. We have been told there have been some injuries on board. We don't know the extent of that at this moment.

Again, Grupo Taca airplane has overshot the runway while trying to land in the Honduran capital injuring some people on board. We'll bring you the latest just as soon as we get more information.

MARCIANO: Movement today in the case of Texas versus a polygamous sect. State authorities say they collected DNA samples from its leader Warren Jeffs. They allege he had so-called spiritual marriages with four girls ages 12 to 15. For now Jeffs is in an Arizona jail on abuse charges unrelated to what's been happening in Texas.

Late yesterday the state supreme court upheld an appeals court ruling. It agreed that child welfare agents overstepped their authority when they removed more than 400 children from the polygamous ranch near Eldorado. A hearing is scheduled in two hours to decide what happens next.

NGUYEN: Well until then, the parents are in a holding pattern. Joining us by phone now from New York is CNN legal analyst and former U.S. attorney, Sunny Hostin.

As we wait for this hearing to take place dealing with how to comply with the Texas supreme court's ruling, Sunny, that essentially says the state had no right to remove the children, what is the main legal issue that they are going to deal with in this hearing that is about to take place in less than two hours from now?

VOICE OF SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think it's pretty clear Betty. I mean certainly the Texas supreme court said and found that removal of the children was not warranted, but this was not a slam dunk for the families like many people seem to think. The Texas supreme court gave a very clear road map to the district court. It specifically said listen, the family code gives you broad authority to protect these children just short of separating them. Then the road map the Texas supreme court said you may, the court, make temporary orders for the safety and welfare, including an order restraining a party from removing the child beyond Texas.

It also gives the road map and says to the district court, listen, you can order the removal of an alleged perpetrator from the child's home. You can issue orders to assist the department in its investigation. And then it gives, I think, in my view the families a bit of a warning signal. It also says, the supreme court of Texas, the code prohibits interference with an investigation and a person who relocates their residence or conceals the child with an attempt to interfere with an investigation commits an offense.

And so I think when you read this opinion, it is very clear as to what is going to happen. The Texas supreme court is guiding the district court, saying listen, you went a little too far by completely removing these kids, but these kids don't necessarily have to go back with their polygamous families to a ranch. They can go somewhere else and you can set the parameters as to how this reunification can occur.

NGUYEN: So that is very important. They don't necessarily or it doesn't mean, this ruling that they'll necessarily go back to the ranch. I want to get at that for just minute, Sunny and I want to put this up on the screen for our viewers because the Texas Child Protective Services said in a statement and we're going to show that to you in just a second, "...our goal is to reunite families whenever we can do so and make sure the children will be safe."

All right. So how are they going to be able to do this? Even if the kids don't go back to the ranch or if they go to another place, how can they ensure the safety of those children in a place where, especially the ranch, where before it was said to be a place where there are allegations of abuse?

HOSTIN: I definitely think it's going to be a difficult thing for the department, but not impossible Betty. We've already seen that some families have been reunited. Those families have been ordered not to go back to the ranch. Those families are in a different place. They've also been ordered not to leave the state of Texas. They are under supervision of the state. And so the state is going to be watching very carefully just as they would watch any family in this particular circumstance.

I think while it's going to be difficult what we are going to see is the court, district court in this case reviewing the parameters here. I think what's also important to notice that the Supreme Court also said, you know what? These proceedings are not concluded because of our decision or because of the court of appeals decision. There are fundamental issues concerning parental rights that need to be determined. That is what this hearing is going to be.

NGUYEN: All right but Sunny, the CPS, Child Protective Services there in Texas had already had a tough enough time investigating this while these children were in state custody. How are they going to be able to continue to monitor this and ensure their safety when these children are back with their parents?

HOSTIN: That is a great question. I think that is the question that the court is going to have for the families.

The court is going to say, how can I be assured you are not going to go back into this lifestyle, into this -- not lifestyle, but on to this ranch where the department proved in some sense that pubescent girls were in danger. Now let me also say this Betty. When you look at this opinion, this wasn't a full concurrence. There was another opinion in which some of those judges determined pubescent girls were in danger but there was no evidence of imminent danger for boys and prepubescent girls. So they sort of split the baby and they drew a line. And I think that is another thing that this court is going to have to deal with.

NGUYEN: You're calling it a road map and hopefully we'll get a little more clarity on how that road map is going to play out in today's hearing.

Sunny Hostin joining us live today by phone.

Thank you, Sunny.

HOSTIN: Thanks, Betty.

MARCIANO: Decision day for Democrats. A party committee gets to set and decide whether and how to seats delegates from Florida and Michigan. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARCIANO: On Wall Street, oil is tame today but the controversy surrounding crude's record-setting run is anything but. Susan Lisovicz is on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange with the challenges that come with the government's investigation into oil prices.

Hi, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Rob.

Federal regulators say they're taking this move because of "today's unprecedented market conditions," which of course translates into those record high oil prices which have been causing such pain in the economy. One thing you have to know about commodities trading is that by nature it is inherently risky and very volatile. Whether its soybeans or pork bellies or barrels of crude, traders are taking bets on these commodities months and sometimes years in advance.

Here at the New York Stock Exchange, if we see a big movement, an unexplained movement in a stock, often the NYSE will call the company and say what's up? They want to know what's going on to give all investors a level playing field. In many instances stock trading is halted pending news. That never happens in the commodities market. One other difference and this is important because it is so volatile, insider trading, completely legal in the commodity markets. That is not true of course here with stock trading -- Rob.

MARCIANO: Insider trading completely legal. Did I hear you say that?

LISOVICZ: That's right. You can make a move on something that you hear that is not out in the public domain.

MARCIANO: I guess that's what they call speculation. Given that, how difficult will it be to prove that folks are manipulating the price of oil?

LISOVICZ: You mentioned the word speculation. And I mean speculators and commodities, to use an old southern expression, Rob, it's sort of like white on rice. They do go together. Manipulation, illegal. One analyst that I talked to today, and actually his really echoes things that I've heard really for months now. Because we've been tracking oil prices for months.

It's very difficult to manipulate a market this size. That is the oil market. Having said that, there have been instances of manipulation. Let me give you one. Last year BP was fined a record of over $300 million by the commodities future trading commission for manipulating the propane market in '04. What happened was, traders admitted that they basically cornered the market in propane and drove prices artificially high so that they could sell and make such a windfall as a result.

They were fined for that. I think it's safe to say that is among the things regulators will be looking at though they haven't said that specifically.

Let's take a look at oil prices right now. They are up more than $1 right now approaching $128 a barrel. But also moving higher are stock prices for the fourth day in a row. We are not talking about big gains here but the Dow is up 13 points. The NASDAQ meanwhile is up 16. And as I mentioned, this would be the fourth day in a row and would close out the month of May on a positive note. It's been a tough month -- Rob.

MARCIANO: It's a little eerie to here you describe the under workings of some of the financial markets with what has happened in the past. But I guess that is the way it is with any business.

LISOVICZ: There is always risk. I think that when you're talking about commodities, it's especially risky. But one of the differences is that oil is so vital to our economy. It's different than pork bellies, it's different than soybeans or wheat. It is absolutely vital. That's why there is such outrage in Washington and at the gas pumps. Regulators are probably feeling the pressure, as well and want to know if there is anything illegal going on.

MARCIANO: Thanks for the update Susan. We'll check back with you later on.

NGUYEN: Decision day for the Democrats. A party committee gets set to decide whether and how to seat delegates from Florida and Michigan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARCIANO: Pictures coming into the CNN NEWSROOM of a plane crash that happened near the capital of Honduras. There have been some injured on board by this Grupo Taca airplane overshot the runway. We are now hearing that weather may have played a factor on flight 390 which was arriving from El Salvador. Ended up stopping on a nearby street there. There you see the damage. Tropical storm Alma made landfall and cranked through Honduras just a few hours before this plane crash. So that may have been a factor, big-time rains and fog may have limited visibility.

So obviously an investigation will be under way. Ambulances and fire engines and firefighters were to the scene to help with the wounded. There are no immediate reports of any fatalities.

NGUYEN: Well, it is high drama for the Democrats. The party's Florida and Michigan problem is going before the DNC rules committee and the panel is meeting in Washington to decide what to do about seating both state's delegates at the August convention. Now for Hillary Clinton who won both primaries, but who trails in the delegate derby, it could be a make-or-break proposition. She wants all of the delegates seated.

Barack Obama says he will agree to seat some of the disputed delegates. Then there is the issue of how to divide any delegates who are seated. None of the candidates campaigned in Florida and Clinton's name was the only one on the Michigan ballot. Both states were stripped of their delegates for moving up their primaries.

MARCIANO: Our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider's, is right there in Washington where all the action is. He joins us from the CNN Election Express.

Bill, once this happens tomorrow, is that it? Is it a done deal or is there more complications after that?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is pretty complicated. The Democratic Rules Committee faces a tough challenge. They have to make both sides equally happy or equally unhappy. As long as they are equal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): On Saturday the Democratic Party has to make two big choices. One is how many delegates from Florida and Michigan to seat? Right now the number is zero because those states were penalized for holding their primaries too early. The Florida and Michigan parties are appealing that decision with encouragement from Hillary Clinton.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, (D-NY) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let's make sure your delegates are seated.

SCHNEIDER: Barack Obama supports seating some disputed delegates.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D-IL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Florida Democrats will be seated. They will be participating.

SCHNEIDER: So what's the choice?

KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Obviously there are some who would like to see it reinstated to 100 percent. There are some who say that a 50 percent sanction was automatic and therefore, perhaps they could reinstate to 50 percent.

SCHNEIDER: Once the committee decides how many delegates to seat, it has to decide how to divide them. Florida Democrats voted 50 percent for Clinton and 33 percent for Obama. Obama's name was not on the ballot in Michigan where 40 percent voted uncommitted.

FINNEY: Some would take the position that perhaps they were, their intention was to vote for Senator Obama. Some would take the position that you can't know what the intention of those voters were.

SCHNEIDER: Here is a scenario Clinton would probably prefer. All the Florida and Michigan delegates are seated and Obama is given no uncommitted Michigan delegates. Then Obama would be 81 delegates ahead and he would need 155 more to win. Here is a scenario that might be acceptable to Obama. Half the Michigan and Florida delegates are seated and all the uncommitted Michigan delegates are given to him. Then Obama would be 167.5 delegates ahead and he would need 72.5 more to win. Either way, Obama would be ahead in delegates.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Now if the party seats those Florida and Michigan delegates, then those states' popular votes could be added to the totals. Would that put Hillary Clinton ahead in total popular votes? Only if you give Obama zero votes in Michigan where nobody could vote for him because his name wasn't on the ballot -- Rob.

MARCIANO: Would that make it legitimate to count these popular votes out of Michigan and Florida?

SCHNEIDER: Well, there is a problem. There were 29 states that had competitive primaries in both parties. In 24 of those states, Democratic turnout was higher than Republican turnouts. The five states where more Republicans voted were Arizona, John McCain's home state, Utah where Mormons came out to vote for Mitt Romney, Alabama where you had a heavy evangelical turnout for Mike Huckabee, plus Michigan and Florida. That suggests that something strange was happening in Michigan and Florida. A lot of Democrats chose not to vote because they didn't think the primary counted -- Rob.

MARCIANO: It just makes your head spin. You are right. It is complicated. Bill Schneider, we thank you for your insight.

NGUYEN: The CNN election express bus will be in Washington tomorrow as the Democrats decide what they are going to do for the voters in Florida and Michigan. Along the way to the nation's capital, the crew made a stop in Ohio.

Here is CNN's Josh Rubin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH RUBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Have Bill will travel. The election express is making its way through Ohio and we're talking to voters.

(on camera): Who are you supporting for president?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John McCain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary Clinton.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barack Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's going to be a fight for my vote.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm undecided at this point.

RUBIN (voice-over): Ohio is a battleground state in every sense of the word. Here the people almost always vote economy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know my parents are having a hard time with jobs. My dad just got laid off and all that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not big on big government. I don't like this health care initiative. I want to see lighter taxes. I want somebody in the office that I feel like is going to work for me and help me in my business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I look at our economy. I question -- I think it's important to support our troops, but on the other hand I'm not sure that that was the best use of our resources in terms of fighting terrorists in going into Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The housing market has really been difficult. Just on my street alone there's just a lot of people are having a difficult time selling their houses and they're beautiful houses in a nice neighborhood with great schools and you know that's hard.

RUBIN: So with the primaries ending, Ohio voters are deciding which presidential candidate is best for them. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it will be a close tight race just like it was with Bush in the previous two elections.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now I just don't think Obama or Hillary has what this country needs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What Barack Obama once said, I think I'm definitely going to be a John McCain supporter.

RUBIN (on camera): Can Obama get supporters in Ohio?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he can. If he concentrates on the little people, the folks that are unemployed, the people who've lost jobs in the state of Ohio, I think he can do that.

RUBIN (voice-over): Josh Rubin from CNN's election express, Canton, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARCIANO: CNN correspondents take the great commute challenge again. This time with a twist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The slug line is a place where people who want a free ride into town meet drivers who want to use the carpool lane.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: I'm a slug looking for a free ride.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: I'm going to get to work the old-fashioned way, slogging through traffic.

(END CLIP)

MARCIANO: Who do you think got to work first this time? Story coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Video games they are here to stay, as if you didn't already know that. So if you can't beat them, you might as well join them. A health foundation is planning to pay big bucks to research teams who study the physical and mental effects of video games. It's the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and it's giving millions to university teams developing games that reward players for eating right and exercising and measuring the impact on players' motor skills and perception.

The goal, more learning, more physical benefits and less wasted time. There is now a WII where you can do yoga and all kinds of other exercise. They are branching it out so we can get a little workout.

MARCIANO: Get the kids off the couch. I like it. Get off the couch, get out of bed, get to work. We call it the great race to work, part two. Last week we showed you how CNN's Zain Verjee, Tom Foreman and Jamie McIntyre bike, drove or took the train to find a cheaper way into the bureau.

Now they are slugging it out into D.C. We'll let them explain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: The slug line is a place where people who want a free ride into town meet drivers who want to use the carpool lane.

VERJEE: And I'm the slug looking for a free ride.

MCINTYRE: I'm going to get to work the old fashion way, slogging through traffic.

FOREMAN: And I'm going to pick up a slug and sail right past him.

VERJEE: No you won't.

FOREMAN: Yes I will.

What time do you have? Synchronize your watch.

VERJEE: 7:19.

MCINTYRE: It's not just about winning. It's about comfort, convenient and cost.

Hi, Union Station?

FOREMAN: So long, suckers.

VERJEE: Everyone's very quiet here.

FOREMAN: HOV lane, we're going. There goes Jamie already. I think he just took a wrong turn.

MCINTYRE: The first thing we've done is make a wrong turn just to give them a little bit of a head start.

VERJEE: Yes, sure.

FOREMAN: So you've been slugging for 26 years?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

FOREMAN: You saved a lot of money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. Money and also time.

VERJEE: So it's kind of a win-win situation. You get into the HOV lanes, the slug hangs out and gets a free ride.

FOREMAN: What are sort of the rules of slugging? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First come, first serve.

VERJEE: Is a slug allowed to eat?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, they are not.

MCINTYRE: Someone is calling here. Let's see what's going on -- Tom?

I can't tell you how far ahead we are. It's unbelievable.

MCINTYRE: Do you know what our speed is right now?

Zero miles per hour.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three hundred and ninety-five delays from the beltway to King Street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. Nice meeting you. See you back in the slug line again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

FOREMAN: This is sweet because look at this. We are like two blocks away from my own office. He got a ride for nothing. I got in town in half or less the time that it would normally take.

VERJEE: 7:47. It took us 20 minutes to get here. We are going to pop out and walk to CNN.

MCINTYRE: 7:57 a.m. we're just crossing the 14th street Bridge, and now it's just one long hard slog to work.

FOREMAN: Here goes the winner.

VERJEE: McIntyre.

MCINTYRE: Zain, how are you?

VERJEE: Where are you?

MCINTYRE: I'm a couple of blocks from the bureau.

VERJEE: Well, we are going to be there about the same time, but I'm just walking leisurely.

MCINTYRE: I'll see you soon. I think I have a chance.

FOREMAN: Look who comes showing up here.

VERJEE: Thank you.

FOREMAN: You're very welcome. How was your ride?

VERJEE: Well, it was a pretty good ride. It was relaxing. It was kind of cool. MCINTYRE: Synchronize our watches.

FOREMAN: Wow, synchronize our watches is right. So mine was the fastest. Yours was the cheapest.

VERJEE: Free.

FOREMAN: Yours was the slowest and most expensive.

MCINTYRE: And most frustrating. It was really interesting just to watch the people line up, get in the cars and take off.

VERJEE: And the whole thing about the rules and the etiquette I mean that really does come into play.

FOREMAN: Here's to us and our community challenge.

VERJEE: Here's to us, cheers, hey hey.

FOREMAN: See you on the ride home.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: Good luck with that ride home. Well, let's talk about this now because in China's disaster zone, nobody is rebuilding yet. So why is that? Danger on an epic scale still looms. We have those details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARCIANO: Two and a half weeks since life shook apart for millions of people in China, a safe place to sleep is still hard to come by. It's not more about the quakes that they are worried, it's this. Enormous and growing lakes caused by rivers backed up by landslides acting like dams. The government has ordered about 200,000 people out of the region.

It will flood if these quake lakes overflow or the earth and dams break. Worst-case scenario is an emergency vacation of more than a million people. Crews are trying to prevent that by relieving the pressure on these natural dams. By official count the quake has killed almost 69,000 people.

NGUYEN: In other news, how did anyone keep a straight face around this guy? You know him. We are remembering Harvey Korman after some 40 some odd years of laughs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MARCIANO: Harvey Korman, we're so glad we had this time together. The comedic actor died yesterday at 81. If you laughed in the 1970's, chances are Harvey Korman had something to do with it. He won four Emmys as a player on the "Carol Burnett Show." He often couldn't keep a straight face when he was a skit with Tim Conway. Boy they were some couple. Korman was also one of Mel Brooks' favorites with memorable roles in "Blazing Saddles," "High Anxiety," and of course "History of the World, Pt. 1." Korman died of complications from a ruptured aneurysm. He's survived by his wife and four children.

The next hour of the NEWSROOM starts now.