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Lou Dobbs Tonight
War and Presidential Politics; Disaster Ahead for U.S. Highways; National Guard Troops Withdrawing From Mexican Border
Aired June 02, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Wolf.
Tonight the war in Iraq could be at a turning point. But Senator Obama is focusing, instead, on his ideological battle over the war with Senator McCain. We'll tell you what voters, Democratic, Republican, and Independent should know about the war in Iraq.
And the National Guard is withdrawing from our southern border with Mexico leaving gaping holes in a border gaping with holes. This is the war with violent drug cartels and Mexico is escalating and spilling across our border. We'll have a special report from the border.
And presidential candidates talking tough about the threat to American consumers from dangerous imports. Will any of these presidential candidates actually take action to protect American consumers if they're elected president? We'll have that story, all of that, all of the day's news, and much more coming up next here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, June 2nd. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
We begin tonight with the war in Iraq. The number of our troops being killed in Iraq each month has fallen to the lowest level of the entire war. Nineteen of our troops were killed in the month of May; 4,086 since the war began in March of 2003. Some military analysts now say the war is at a turning point.
Senator McCain today declared Senator Obama's demand for quick troop withdrawals from Iraq; he said that would lead to chaos and genocide in Iraq. And Senator Obama accused Senator McCain of wanting to continue the war as he put it indefinitely. We'll be reporting for you from the campaign trail here later. But we begin now with Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou, make no mistake, the war in Iraq is looking a lot better, but tonight the Pentagon generals will tell you there is still a long way to go.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SHOTS) STARR (voice-over): For 155,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, a promising trend. In May, 19 troops lost their lives, the lowest monthly total since the war began, a dramatic decline from the same month last year when 126 troops were killed. Commanders are optimistic, but cautious about the coming months.
MAJ. GEN. JEFFERY HAMMOND, CMDR., MULTI-NATL DIV. BAGHDAD: I'm not one who likes to talk about turning corners or dance in the end zone sort of approach to any of this because I don't see it in that terms.
(SHOUTING)
STARR: Iraqis on the streets also have mixed views. Protesters just last week vowed to continue opposing a long-term military pact with the U.S., Shiite and Sunni reconciliation still has a long way to go. The major difference in the last year, Iraqi security forces are in charge of nine of 18 provinces.
There are even plans to turn back the once violent al Anbar province to Iraqi control. Baghdad security, though, still gets the most attention. In the last six months, U.S. and Iraqi troops have captured or killed 430 al Qaeda suspects and 455 operatives with suspected ties to Iran.
Daily life is coming back in the volatile Sadr City area. Iraqi troops now patrol a neighborhood that for months had been a launch point for attacks. The fate of many insurgents is unclear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I would say those who previously were inside Sadr City were inside Baghdad probably about 95 percent of them had departed.
STARR: Some may have given up the fight, but the U.S. believes many may have fled to Iran, which U.S. commanders believe continues to expand its influence inside Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: And, of course, Lou, it must be said for the families of the American troops that have died and the Iraqis, still this war, of course, a very big tragedy for them. Lou?
DOBBS: Well, it's a tragedy for all Americans. Because these young men and women who are representing this nation and performing their duty to the nation, I mean that diminishes all of us. But the clear fact is that the number of American casualties are at the lowest now at any point in this war, correct?
STARR: They are, Lou. And you know, that's a very interesting phenomena because again like today when you ask a general, so is this a turning point? Is this finally success in Iraq? The generals, the commanders have been so burned over the years that they're just not willing to say it yet.
What they say instead, progress yes, but that it is fragile and it is reversible, and it still really depends on Iraqi forces able to take control over the long-term. They say there is still a long way to go.
DOBBS: Well that caution is both understandable and appropriate. I don't know that making comments about dancing in the end zone is an appropriate comment. But the reality is, that Sadr City once under the control of Muqtada al-Sadr, hence its name, encompassing about two million people within Baghdad is now an Iraqi government control and Basra for the first time is in Iraqi government control. Not that of al Qaeda or the insurgents or Shiite militia or the British troops, but actually the Iraqi government.
STARR: Absolutely, Lou. The facts are irrefutable. The question is where does it all go from here? Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Barbara Starr, reporting from the Pentagon.
Senators McCain and Obama today intensifying their battle over the conduct of the war in Iraq -- both candidates questioning one another's judgment. Their exchanges reflecting sharp differences over the war on the campaign trail. Differences that leave Independent voters of course struggling to understand what in the world are these two men really thinking? Louise Schiavone has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For Hillary Clinton, the war in Iraq was a bad idea.
HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: On the first day that I am president, I will ask my secretary of defense and the Joints Chief of Staff and my security advisers to begin a planning process so that we can start bringing our troops home within 60 days.
SCHIAVONE: Barack Obama saw the troop surge as a blunder too.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush and John McCain have been so focused on pursuing a flawed and costly war in Iraq that they've lost sight of the problems that have been mounting here in Michigan and here at home.
SCHIAVONE: But with evidence that the surge has reduced violence and U.S. deaths in Iraq, John McCain now has results on his side.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's worth recalling that America's progress in Iraq is a direct result of the new strategy that Senator Obama vehemently opposed. It was the strategy he predicted would fail when he voted to cut off funds for our forces in Iraq.
SCHIAVONE: Will it matter to voters?
ROBERT GUTTMAN, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Iraq ebbs and flows when there's casualties, when there's a bombing, when there's a terrorist attack, Iraq comes back on the news. It's almost like a stock market. We discount it.
SCHIAVONE: A late April CNN Opinion Research Corporation poll indicates registered voters rank Iraq as the second most important issue with the economy holding a solid first place. That could change.
LARRY SABATO, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: While voters have longer memories than we give them credit for, they naturally put more emphasis on what happens in the weeks prior to an election.
SCHIAVONE: The election being the ultimate poll.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHIAVONE: For now, though, Lou, polls still show voters taking it all in, agreeing more with the Democrats who seek a troop drawdown, but expressing more confidence in John McCain on tactical decisions. Lou?
DOBBS: Louise, thank you very much. Louise Schiavone.
Let's take a look at our poll. The question tonight is do you believe presidential candidates are ignoring the reality on the ground in Iraq? And instead pushing their own ideological points of view on this war? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'd like to hear from you. The results upcoming in the broadcast somewhat later.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi appears unwilling to give our troops the credit they deserve for progress in Iraq. Instead, Pelosi is now praising Iran. In comments to the "San Francisco Chronicle", Speaker Pelosi said quote, "some of the success of the surge is the good will of the Iranians. They decided in Basra when the fighting would end."
The speaker added, "They negotiated that cessation of hostilities, the Iranians." Well, Madame Speaker, we should point out Basra was never included in the surge. British and Iraqi troops are responsible for security now in that part of Iraq and none of the additional U.S. combat brigade sent to Iraq in the surge were stationed in Basra.
On the campaign trail today, Senator Clinton declared she would be the best president. Earlier Senator Clinton said the race is quote, "not over until it's over." Senator Clinton today campaigned in South Dakota on the eve of that state's primary; Montana also holding a primary tomorrow.
Those are the last primaries of this presidential campaign. Senator Clinton won't be in either South Dakota or Montana, however. She is now planning to meet her advisers tomorrow and to hold a primary night rally in New York City.
Former President Bill Clinton today is also on the campaign trail in South Dakota. They're trying to win last minute support for his wife. The former president gave a hint, however, that the race for the Democratic nomination may be drawing to a close.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This may be the last day I'm ever involved in a campaign of this kind. I thought I was out of politics until Hillary decided to run. But it has been one of the greatest honors of my life to be able to go around and campaign for her for president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Clinton supporters, tonight, however they're refusing to give up. Many are simply furious and disgusted with their party's national leadership. The Democratic Party Rules Committee says Florida and Michigan delegates will have only half a vote each at the convention. And to many Democrats, that's nothing less than disenfranchisement of almost three million voters. John Zarrella has our report from Miami.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The decision was really no surprise. Giving Florida's Democratic Party delegation seats at the convention table, but with only a half vote each had been talked about for weeks, even months. Now that it's a done deal, you'd expect maybe a party group hug -- not.
STEVE GELLER (D), FLORIDA STATE SENATE: The DNC took their eyes off of the prize. And if we lose the presidency, I hope that that entire lot in Washington gets thrown out.
ZARRELLA: State Senator Steve Geller is one of many disgusted Democrats who believe the party's decision will make it more difficult to energize voters come November.
GELLER: There are some voters that are simply lost now. There are some voters that simply will not vote for the nominee of the Democratic Party whoever it is.
ZARRELLA: As you might expect, Hillary Clinton backers are the most miffed. U.S. Representative Alcee Hastings called the party's solution quote, "stupid" and says he won't attend the Denver convention. Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz says it will take a quote, "Herculean" effort to get the voters motivated.: And they may not get much help from Clinton supporters.
SUSAN MACMANUS, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH FLORIDA: That is a problem for Florida Democrats. That they're hard-working women volunteers for Hillary will sit it out when it comes to doing the in the trenches kind of work that's needed to turn people out to vote.
ZARRELLA: Through all of this, the State's Republicans are sitting back just snickering.
JIM GREER, CHMN., REP. PARTY OF FLORIDA: I will tell you that the Democrats in the way they've handled getting to the White House has been the gift that keeps on giving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: No White House.
ZARRELLA: And come the general election, Republicans say they plan to remind voters of how the Democrats treated them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democrats slapped them in the face, didn't come down here for a year and a half to talk to them, except when they were coming to take money out of the state.
ZARRELLA: Political experts say Obama will have to spend considerable time in Florida to make up for the damage done. And like any new visitor, he may need a map to know what city he's in.
OBAMA: When we are unified Sunshine, nobody can stop us.
ZARRELLA: You're in Sunrise, Florida, Senator, not Sunshine.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: Now State Senator Steve Geller has a lawsuit still pending in the federal court here in Fort Lauderdale, Miami area that would force the Democratic Party to seat the entire Florida delegation, Lou. At this point, the state senator says he's just waiting for the court to rule, has no idea how they will. But, of course, several other similar lawsuits in the past have been thrown out by the federal courts. Lou?
DOBBS: Sunshine? Sunrise? Almost sounds like a song, doesn't it?
ZARRELLA: Yeah, and he needs to be here very frequently, the Democrats said in the piece in order for them to have any chance. And Geller says if they lose the state of Florida by 30,000 votes or less, which is what he thinks this mess may have cost them, then you can blame the Democrats for losing Florida in November on this mess he says.
DOBBS: All right. John Zarrella. Thank you very much, John.
Coming up here next, Senator Obama resigning from his controversial church in Chicago; was his resignation political theater? Was it timely?
Also Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, he's in the Middle East there, he's got his hat in hand, and the American U.S. Treasury secretary is literally begging for new investments in the country. We'll have the story.
And gasoline prices are soaring. We'll tell you what if anything any of these presidential candidates might do about it.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Gasoline prices tonight are at an all-time record high; the national average of a gallon of gasoline $4. Americans are now driving less; they're doing less driving and that means fewer gasoline tax dollars. You wouldn't have thought about this, probably, for the highway trust fund.
That fund is how we traditionally pay for our national highway system. And as Bill Tucker reports now, it could be a disaster for this nation's crumbling infrastructure.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For the first time in almost 30 years, travel on public roads fell from March of last year to March of this year. The 4.3 percent drop was the sharpest yearly drop in the history of the federal highway administration.
That good news means bad news for the federal highway trust fund. Because less gas sold means fewer taxpayer dollars going into the fund. It's a funding method some argue that's unsustainable.
JIM RAY, FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMIN.: And we have competing national policy interests here. Unfortunately, we don't have a gas tax system. We don't have a system to support our infrastructure that aligns with that national energy policy.
TUCKER: The federal government collects 18.4 cents on every gallon sold no matter how much the gas costs; the tax hasn't been increased since 1993. Legislators and policy makers wince at the idea of higher gas taxes, especially when gas is over $4 a gallon in many states. It's enough to drive them to consider alternative means of funding the building of new roads.
The Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission wants to turn heavily traveled Interstate 80 into a toll road to pay for repairs in expansion of the roadway. The Texas Department of Transportation is using private financing to build roads, granting private contractors the right to collect tolls to pay for the construction.
PHILLIP RUSSELL, TEXAS DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION: We'll utilize whatever resources we have to build more infrastructure. If it's a gas tax increase, we'll utilize that. If it's more toll roads, more private investment, we're going to use those financial tools to build more transportation infrastructures.
TUCKER: Since 1980 traffic on our roadways has increased 95 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Yet the infrastructure to support that traffic has only grown by four percent. Transportation officials say we have to focus on our transportation needs and ask ourselves how are we going to pay for the roads because a bill is due. In 2005, the bill for just maintaining existing infrastructure was estimated at about $79 billion by the Federal Highway Administration, Lou.
DOBBS: Starting to hear a lot of people squeal. And the great thing is that the idiots in a lot of State Departments of Transportation are talking about selling away taxpayer funded assets over which they have no title. Over which they have no right. Ask folks in Indiana how that's working. Ask the folks in Texas, because this is an absurdity.
The idea that with -- that no one would consider the impact on the highway trust fund of declining usage of vehicles and less consumption of gasoline at a time when we all recognize that we need alternate energy sources, we need to conserve. What kind of madness is this that is gripping these elected officials and these state bureaucrats?
TUCKER: Well nobody thought about it, Lou. Nobody sat down and said get our policy in line.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Yet these people think that they're smart enough to tell us what the solution is? These are the same bozos who don't even see what is obviously coming at them over the horizon. Amazing. Bill Tucker, thanks a lot.
Well, gasoline in this country at $4 a gallon is a bargain when compared to Europe. So we kind of wanted to give you a chance to kind of think about what's going on here and enjoy the experience of what the Europeans are doing.
Over in Europe, motorists are paying as much as $9 a gallon. Why that disparity, well we paid an average of 11 percent in taxes on each gallon of gasoline in the month of April, France, United Kingdom, and Germany, oh just over 60 percent. Oh, I get it, it really isn't about the cost of energy. It's about the taxation.
And they drive quite differently in Europe than they do here, so all the little State Department bureaucrats -- State Department and Transportation bureaucrats listen up. In this country 47 percent of the cars on our roads have six cylinder engines; in Europe, 84 percent are four cylinder; 51 percent of the cars in Europe have diesel engines, here fewer than two-tenths of a percent use diesels and diesels, while more fuel efficient, about 20 to 40 percent more miles per gallon than gas engine vehicles.
Europe submission standards, by the way for diesels, are far less stringent than ours and that's limited the diesel popularity of course in the United States. It has also raised consumption of fuel per gallon. And this is your public policy at work with a bunch of geniuses in both political parties, ideologues who don't even know what they're talking about.
Now you have a better idea of what we're talking about. I mean, this is ridiculous. To hear the nonsense being spewed on the presidential campaign trail, by candidates who don't even know the facts. Now you do. Well, let's turn to another genius out of Washington, none other than Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. He's in the Middle East tonight with hat in hand. The secretary telling a group of investors in Abu Dhabi that the United Arab of Emirates, that the U.S. will remain open to investment from sovereign wealth funds.
Those are the funds, of course, government funds. In this case, it would be the Emirate funds. Paulson said quote -- are you ready -- you may want to take notes on this. If you really want to understand and appreciate and sort of study the depth of the ignorance that drives this administration when it comes to economic policy. Here we go.
"Some here worry about growing protectionist sentiment in the United States. And they also worry specifically that U.S. sentiment toward Middle East investment has been permanently affected by the Dubai Ports World case." Yes, this broadcast right here led the fight then against giving control of some of our most important ports to Dubai Ports World.
This broadcast and this reporter, by the way, also took particular umbrage of the fact that the president of the United States said it had nothing to do with security, which turned out to be just abject nonsense. Well, and the position here isn't about protectionism, it's about common sense and protecting our national security.
And to think that this man is representing the United States hat in hand begging for foreign capital because the idiotic policies followed by this -- in my opinion and only my opinion, not the network's, not anybody else's, just mine -- in my opinion, the idiotic policies that led us to this were all contrived by the free trade fools who have no regard either for the common good or the national interest or the consequences of their idiocy.
But that form, that phase, this stage of it is drawing to a close come January of 2009. A new phase of what we hope will be far better governance and public policy will take its place. We will not hold our breaths, will we?
Up next here, a withdrawal from our border with Mexico, we'll have a report on the border -- from the border on how that move will affect our national security, our border security.
And the Democrats have decided what to do with Florida and Michigan voters. Is anybody happy? I'll be talking to two members of the Democrats Rules Committee here next.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: National Guard troops stationed along our border with Mexico to be withdrawn soon, even though that border is far, far from secure. The Bush administration so far has refused to extend the tour of the National Guard, despite pleas from border state governors. Casey Wian now reports from the U.S.-Mexico border near San Diego.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): California National Guard engineers are retrofitting the second layer of border fence near San Diego. The border patrol found the existing fence with its top panel angled toward the border was actually easier for illegal aliens and drug smugglers to scale with makeshift ladders, so the Guard is straightening and raising the fence, as well as improving dangerous border roads, tracking illegal border crossers with remote cameras and other tasks under Operation Jumpstart. It began two years ago, with 6,000 Guard troops deployed to assist the border patrol while it hired 6,000 new agents.
MASTER SGT. MICHAEL DRAKE, CALIF. NATIONAL GUARD: We've made the border more secure and we've added gravely to the safety of border patrol agents.
WIAN: Guard troops have helped the border patrol arrest 166,000 illegal border crossers and seized more than 300,000 pounds of drugs. They've built 37 miles of border fence and 87 miles of vehicle barriers.
CAPT. KIMBERLY HOLMAN, JOINT TASK FORCE VISTA: The opportunity to perform a Homeland Security mission on U.S. soil is truly maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I think all of us are sad to see it come to an end.
WIAN: The troops are leaving because the Bush administration has refused to extend Operation Jumpstart beyond next month, although all four border state governors have requested an extension.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are decisions that are being made way above my pay grade.
WIAN: Congressman Brian Bilbray, who grew up near this stretch of border called Smugglers Gulch, says the Guard has served its temporary mission.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (D, CALIFORNIA: Let's do what we can down at the border with the fence. But the real battle will be won in the neighborhoods in America where illegal employment will be stopped.
WIAN: So the Guard will have to leave the fence retrofit and other jobs on the border for someone else to finish.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Private contractors are already taking over some National Guard duties on the border. But it's clear the National Guard will be missed. This road behind me used to be so steep and treacherous that border patrol agents in vehicles chasing illegal aliens and drug smugglers down this hill, they'd sometimes roll over.
Now that the National Guard has moved something like 250,000 cubic yards of earth in here and bulldozed a new road, that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore, Lou.
DOBBS: Amazing and 37 whole miles of fence in two years?
WIAN: Well they did that among other things.
DOBBS: No, no, no, I'm certain.
WIAN: Not just the fence construction...
DOBBS: No, no...
WIAN: There are others involved in the fence construction besides the National Guard.
DOBBS: Yeah, I understand. But 37 miles of fence is pretty pitiful. I mean that just isn't getting it done by this administration, the Department of Homeland Security. It's remarkable. And there is -- when will be the last -- when will the last National Guardsman leave the border?
WIAN: Next -- July of this year, Lou, in a little less than two month's time the National Guard will be completely off the border.
(CROSSTALK)
WIAN: The Department of Homeland Security Customs and Border Protection says it is more effective use of government resources to have the National Guard in its more traditional role and that private contractors are the better way to go for the job that still needed to be finished on the border, Lou.
DOBBS: That's sort of interesting, because, I guess that means since they're pulling back the National Guard in its entirety that they've stopped the flow of methamphetamines, marijuana, cocaine and heroin, Mexico's no longer the primary source for that, illegal aliens are no longer crossing our border, and there are no concerns about terrorists. Is that sort of where they are? I'm being a little too facetious.
WIAN: That's nowhere near where they are, Lou, absolutely not. The mission was -- the feeling is here among some of the National Guard is that they were contracted, if you will, for a two-year mission. The administration's going to stick with that plan, Lou.
DOBBS: Oh, boy. Stay the course, I believe it's called. All right. Casey, thanks a lot, Casey Wian.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
Bob in Massachusetts said, "Lou, I'm a registered independent voter who is absolutely disgusted with the Democratic Party and the way it handed the Florida and Michigan debacle. It appears to me that the party for change is simply more of the same. The Democrats have just lost my vote. I would hope that the good people of Florida and Michigan feel the same way." Well, Stephanie in New Mexico said, "I watched the Democratic National Committee try to find a solution to Michigan and Florida. Their decision will not unite the Democratic Party. After 44 years of being a Democrat, I'm going to register as an independent. Maybe Hillary Clinton should do the same." You'd be surprised how many people we heard from suggesting precisely that.
We'll have more of your thoughts later in the broadcast. Please, a reminder to join me on the radio Monday through Friday for the Lou Dobbs Show. My guests tomorrow include Democratic strategist, Hank Sheinkopf, Daily News Columnist, Errol Louis, Andrew Basevich will also be joining me to talk about his new book the "Limits of Power and the End of American Exceptionalism." Let's hope not. Go to loudobbsradio.com to find local listings for the Lou Dobbs radio show in your community.
Coming up next, the Democratic Party disenfranchising more than three million voters, we'll examine a decision that many Democrats call simply an utter disgrace.
Senator Obama finally resigning from his controversial church in Chicago. Three top analysts join me to talk about whether that resignation is political theater. Is it really timely?
And toxic toys still flooding into this country. We'll tell you which of the presidential candidates said if there were more toxic toys brought into this country, it would be the last from communist China. We'll tell you how that promise is doing.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: And now an independent perspective on just who has been voting and how many folks have been determining who the candidates will be representing both the Democratic and Republican parties. So far, 19 percent of eligible voters have voted in the Democratic primaries. 10 percent have voted in the Republican primaries. These three candidates haven't been able to mobilize the majority of voters, certainly, but they've mobilized big business and big money. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the biggest donors to the McCain campaign political action committees, representing two Wall Street banks, two major law firms. Four out of five of the largest donors to Senator Obama's campaign are Wall Street banks, Goldman Sachs, the top contributor. And the largest owner, to Senator Clinton's campaign is DLA Piper, one of the world's largest law firms, the second largest is EMILY's List, a pro-choice advocacy group.
Well, the Democratic Party tried this weekend to resolve the dispute over delegates from Michigan and Florida. The DNC Rules Committee voted to seat delegates, award them a half vote each and come up with some sort of peculiar ratio of how to apportion those delegates. The total delegate count as a result, 2,076 for Obama, 1,917 for Clinton; neither reaching the 2,218 delegates needed to clinch the nomination. My next two guests are both members of the DNC Rules Committee. They both voted for the half vote plan. Mame Reiley, a superdelegate supporting Senator Clinton. She says she supported the compromise for the sake of party unity, and Alan Katz, a superdelegate supporting Senator Obama who says the decision will eventually bring the Democratic Party together.
Let me start with you, Mame. You've got to be kidding me. We have been reporting on the reaction of Florida voters, in particular, and in Michigan. They are one angry bunch.
MAME REILEY, CLINTON SUPERDELEGATE: Well, you can't make everybody happy. We sat around the table and we really thought long and hard and came up with what we thought was the fair thing to do. And quite frankly, some of the folks I talked to in Florida were happy with the compromise. We chose to seat the full delegation, give them a half vote because we all feel very certain that the nominee of the party, the convention in Denver will recognize the entire delegation and give them a full vote.
DOBBS: Let me ask you this, Allan. Your candidate is going to need all of the support of the Democratic Party and those supporters of Senator Clinton. Now, Mame is putting a very good face on all of this. Are you concerned about your candidate having enough support to prevail come November?
ALLAN KATZ, OBAMA SUPERDELEGATE: No, I think that Senator Obama has demonstrated an ability to reach across all kinds of lines. And I think the other thing that's important to remember is this. Is that, we've had two outstanding candidates. And they have very strong and emotional supporters. We've reached an end of that campaign. People's feelings are very raw. And I think the people of this country, particularly the supporters of Senator Clinton and Senator Obama believe that we're going to have to elect a Democrat to undo some of the damage of the last eight years.
DOBBS: Let's listen to what Terry McAuliffe, Senator Clinton's campaign chairman had to say about all of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CLINTON CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: They took delegates that, a, Hillary Clinton won fair and square, they voted for Hillary Clinton, they took them away from her based on no formula. They took uncommitted under rule 12 of the DNC, uncommitted, have to stay uncommitted. That's how they voted. You know what, we're going to give them all to Senator Obama. You bet, they stole those votes from Hillary Clinton. It's not fair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: What's your reaction?
REILEY: Well, I can answer that. First of all, I wish I was in Puerto Rico at the beach with Terry McAuliffe instead of trying to do the tough thing that we did over the weekend. Actually, you know, the election in Michigan was an unusual election. Hillary Clinton and Senator Dodd and two of the other candidates were on the ballot. But the question is, the news went out that so many people heard that there was not going to be an election that the DNC was going to recognize. And the variable that's --
DOBBS: Why didn't you all just have another -- a redo?
REILEY: I would have gone for that.
DOBBS: You've got the closest race in presidential primary history in the Democratic Party and you have basically disenfranchised two voters in two states, no matter how you color this.
REILEY: No, I don't agree with you. I don't agree with that at all.
DOBBS: The question is, why not do a redo?
REILEY: I would have supported doing a redo, quite frankly.
DOBBS: Let me try this again. Why, Allan, did you not support a redo and give people, those Democratic voters in both Michigan and Florida the right to vote in the closest presidential primary contest in your party's history?
KATZ: OK, two things. First of all, when they were talking about a redo, we were looking at -- we wanted to make sure was that they could do a redo, do it right, there was going to be money for it. In both cases, the state of Michigan and the state of Florida said we're not going to pay for it.
DOBBS: Allan, you know very well, there were all sources of private volunteers.
KATZ: You know what? There were people who said it. When they asked for the money, there was no money forth coming.
REILEY: I totally agree with you.
DOBBS: I'm sorry.
Allan, who asked for the money? Who asked for the money?
KATZ: The Clinton campaign.
DOBBS: The Clinton campaign, well where was the DNC? Where was the Democratic Party? The money would go to them?
KATZ: Well, the Democratic -- no, it wouldn't go to them, it would have to be operated by the state. The problem was this. You won an election that's not going to be --
DOBBS: We're out of time. I'm going to give you the last word here, Mame.
REILEY: Sure. DOBBS: Quickly, please.
REILEY: I totally agree that I would have preferred us to do a redo. But that's not what we were deciding on Saturday. In the end, we decided to set aside the rule and do the right thing for 2. 5 million people who voted but my first obligation was to the voters. And actually, that's exactly what -- where we came down. We went after the voters.
DOBBS: Mame Reiley, Allan Katz, we thank you both.
Coming up here next, stunning new developments in the Texas polygamy case. What members of that sect are now saying about underage marriage even as hundreds of children are being returned to their parents' custody. We'll take you live to Eldorado.
And toxic toys flooding into the United States still. Will any of these presidential candidates do anything about it?
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The success of the surge in Iraq may help Senator McCain, a strong supporter of the war, and in particular a sponsor of the surge strategy in the general election. Here now three of the best political analysts and CNN contributors in the country, Republican strategist; former White House political director, and campaign chairman for Governor Mike Huckabee, Ed Rollins and Michael Goodwin, he is the Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the "New York Daily News" and Robert Zimmerman, Democratic strategist, National Democratic Committeeman and Senator Clinton Supporter.
And Robert, were you there cheering on the rules committee as they were solemn like in their conclusion?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I was not there.
DOBBS: And did you vomit?
ZIMMERMAN: I was appalled by it. I thought it was absolutely scandalous that there was not a revote in both of those states, and I hold the committee and the local governments responsible in those states.
DOBBS: But you're a member of that committee.
ZIMMERMAN: No, I'm not a member of that committee.
DOBBS: I thought you held the Democratic National Committee.
ZIMMERMAN: But here's the point. Given the fact there was not a revote, there were two choices, either going to the rules and bylaws committee and they had a tough choice to make or credentials.
DOBBS: Why doesn't your candidate appeal to the credentials committee, get it going? This is the part I don't understand.
ZIMMERMAN: I'll explain it to you, because the goal is to keep the party united for November. And that's the agenda here.
DOBBS: I missed that part. So the way to do that is to disenfranchise millions of Democratic voters in Michigan and Florida. That's a move toward unity. The other way -- so, I mean, come on.
Michael Goodwin, I mean what is going on?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Well, look. Within the party, the Democratic Party's screwed up. They started with these crazy rules, they enforced them. And now they've reaped what they've sewn. And I think it's going to hurt them in the fall. And a lot of people in Florida and Michigan probably will end up voting for McCain or staying home.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: There will be a revote in November and obviously it's going to help McCain. No question it's going to help McCain. There's a lot of people feel their vote didn't count and others weren't allowed to vote.
ZIMMERMAN: I do have to make a point though.
DOBBS: Go ahead.
ZIMMERMAN: The rules and bylaws committee did the best they could with it. I'm glad --
DOBBS: For crying out loud.
ZIMMERMAN: No, no --
DOBBS: They sat there and soiled I mean the very idea of Democratic process. I mean, that's ridiculous. Half a vote? Every vote counts was the cry in 2000, every half vote counts in 2008? Now he's talking over me.
ZIMMERMAN: I'm out now.
DOBBS: OK. Let me ask you this question. If the surge continues to succeed at the rate it is right now, this is -- if this is not an anomaly over the past month, the reduction in American casualties. If it is not an anomaly that the Iraqi government is able to take control of more and more of the provinces remaining, now sitting at half. What does that mean for the Democratic candidate come November?
ZIMMERMAN: Let's be clear, we all pray and hope the surge succeed, but hope is not a policy. The fact that we have 19 casualties this month is thank god a reduction. We had 52 the month before.
DOBBS: No, no, I don't want talking points. I really don't.
ZIMMERMAN: I'm giving you facts. DOBBS: I want to know. I understand the facts. So do our viewers. What we want to know is what will be the impact of this is sustained and not an anomaly? What will be the impact in November on the Democratic candidate?
ZIMMERMAN: It will only work to the Democrat's advantage because the war on terrorism has not been abated. In fact, we've hurt ourselves by committing our full forces in Iraq.
DOBBS: I get the feeling that Mr. Zimmerman is not ready to give any -- any glimmer of acknowledgment to the progress, at least at this point to the war in Iraq. What is your answer to the same question?
GOODWIN: Well, look, there's no question it does help McCain. But I think more than that, it's good for America and I think that's the problem.
DOBBS: We understand that. But my question was, what does it mean for the Democratic candidate?
GOODWIN: I think it's terrible for the Democratic candidate, whoever it is if things continue. You saw earlier you reported about Nancy Pelosi basically giving the Iranians the credit.
DOBBS: What was that about? I don't even understand.
GOODWIN: I think when people say the Democrats are invested in failure, Nancy Pelosi --
DOBBS: I haven't understood what this president has been trying to say for years. This should not be taken as a --
GOODWIN: When people say the Democrats are invested in failure, Nancy Pelosi is exhibit a. That sort of statement means she will not give credit to the American military, to the American strategy. She's so invested in criticizing it that she can't accept it.
ROLLINS: The one person who has been out front in this and gives credit and put a lot at risk and a lot of trust in the American troops was John McCain. He should benefit just as they will benefit by his leadership. And I think that's going to be the campaign issue in the fall.
ZIMMERMAN: Let me ask all of you, how does America benefit if we can't put our forces in Afghanistan to fight the Taliban which is on a resurgence? How does America benefit on the war on terror by letting Hezbollah having veto power in Lebanon?
ROLLINS: First of all, the Afghanistan project is a United Nations project. We are supporting that. We will finish up the project we started.
ZIMMERMAN: We outsourced that --
DOBBS: Gentlemen, as fascinating as this is, we're out of time. But not out of material. And the subjects of interest, so we're going to ask you back in the next day or so. Gentlemen, thank you very much, Robert Zimmerman, Michael Goodwin, Ed Rollins.
Up next, that child polygamous case or pedophile case, if you prefer, in Texas tonight and presidential candidates, well, some of them or all of them aren't addressing a critical issue that affects your family's safety. We'll have that story for you next. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The top of the hour, the Election Center with Campbell Brown.
Campbell, what are you working on?
We're going to try it again.
Campbell, what are you working on?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there, Lou. Thanks very much.
Coming up in the last day of the primary race, it may be the last gasp for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Tonight in the Election Center, we're going to have the latest on the superdelegate wheeling and dealing that's taking place behind the scenes as we look ahead to tomorrow's final primaries.
Plus Bill Clinton's latest outburst. Wait until you hear what he said today about a critical magazine article. All that and a lot more just ahead Lou.
DOBBS: All right. Campbell, looking forward to it. Thank you.
The judge at the center of the Texas polygamy case today ordering more than 400 children to be reunited with their parents. Judge Barbara Walter signed a order overturning an earlier ruling that granted the state temporary custody of those children but the state investigation into accusations of sexual abuse at the Yearning for Zion Ranch continues. Susan Roesgen reports now from Eldorado, Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a victory for the parents. Some went immediately to the shelters where their children had been kept for nearly two months. A court order requires Texas officials to release all of about 450 children whisked away from the Yearning for Zion Ranch in an April raid. Child abuse investigators still suspect that at least some of the teenage girls on the ranch have been sexually abused, married, and impregnated by older men to satisfy the demands of the secretive polygamous cult.
MARLEIGH MEISNER, TX CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES: I still feel very strongly about our case and I feel very strongly about the safety and concerns that we have regarding these children. And that's why our investigation will continue.
ROESGEN: But the Texas Supreme Court ruled that taking all of the children away from the ranch in the course of that investigation was going too far. More than 100 of the children were under the age of four. Yet, the state has won a victory too. The ranch gate cannot be kept closed. Investigators are free to check on the children in unannounced visits.
WILLIE JESSOP, RANCH SPOKESMAN: The toll on the children is certainly showing, but we are grateful that the court allowed the mothers and children to come back, even if we -- we wish it was a better order, but it gets the children and mothers back, so we'll take it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROESGEN: Now, so far tonight here at the ranch, we have not seen a single child come back. Lou, I can tell you that down that long dusty road, we were invited about two hours ago to hear more from Willie Jessop, the spokesman for the fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. He said the vindictive forces, that was his phrase, in Texas, have traumatized the community and terrorized the kids, and says the church spells out that there will not be any underage marriages -- any marriages between older men and underaged girls sanctified by the FLDS church.
Lou?
DOBBS: Those marriages can't be sanctified is one word, but they can't be legal, can they? Under state law in Texas?
ROESGEN: No, they're not legal, Lou. In fact, anyone under the age of 17, any girl under the age of 17 who is impregnated or who has sex with an older man, she can be considered the victim of statutory rape under Texas law. And there are apparently five girls -- there are apparently five girls now according to child protective services from this ranch behind me who are believed to be pregnant or are pregnant right now and are underage.
DOBBS: Susan, thank you very much; Susan Roesgen from Eldorado, Texas.
Up next here, will presidential candidates do anything to protect our families from dangerous imports if elected president? It's what they say and what they do. We'll have that report for you next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: All three presidential candidates have promised to stop the importation of toys contaminated with lead from communist China. Despite their rhetoric, toxic toys are still pouring into the United States and I mean by the millions.
Kitty Pilgrim now reports on what the candidates said they would do and what they might do to keep our children safe.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: While the candidates campaigned, 10 million unsafe products were recalled in the first four months of this year, nearly 6 million toys. Keeping kids safe is a crowd pleaser and they all talk tough. Senator Clinton talked about it last Christmas and talked about it as recently as May 18.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So we ship our jobs to China. They ship to us, lead-laced toys, contaminated pet food and polluted pharmaceuticals. Enough. We're going to stand up for American workers and American consumers!
PILGRIM: Senator Obama takes credit for introducing the Lead Free Toys Act of 2007 and amendments under consideration in current legislation. He said last month...
OBAMA: Safety standards. We can't have, our kids, chewing on toys with lead paint on them.
PILGRIM: Senator McCain, one of the strongest free trade supporters, said in April...
MCCAIN: If I'm president of the United States, the next toy that came into this country from China that endangered the lives of our children, it would be the last toy that came in.
PILGRIM: Public activists applaud the candidates' position, and are encouraged by current legislation passed by both Houses of Congress in March and currently in conference. But, they say, the next administration cannot assume that it's fixed and has to enforce hard-headed oversight of manufacturers.
RACHEL WEINTRAUB, CONSUMER FEDERATION OF AMERICA: This bill, that will hopefully pass this summer, takes one of the largest steps that we have taken in years. But Congress and the administration, whoever it is, must continue to focus on these issues.
PILGRIM: The problem has been growing for decades, and long after the campaign rallies have concluded, American children will still be playing with imported toys from China.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: And while the candidates talk and Congress works out the final details on the legislation, consumers are still at risk. The Consumers Union estimates the current rate of CPSC recalls will issue more than 800 recalls this fiscal year. That is a 70 percent increase over last year, Lou.
DOBBS: Disgraceful. Absolutely disgraceful. Kitty, thank you. Kitty Pilgrim.
There is disturbing evidence of the direct link between childhood exposure to lead and adult criminal behavior. Researchers at the University of Cincinnati saying children with high levels of lead in their blood are more likely to be arrested or commit violent crimes as adults. Our poll results tonight -- 85 percent of you said you believe presidential candidates are ignoring the reality on the ground in Iraq, and instead pushing their own ideological points of view on the war.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Join us here tomorrow. Good night from New York. "THE ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown begins right now -- Campbell.
