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Nancy Grace
Hulk Hogan`s Son Transferred From Isolation Cell
Aired June 05, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Former "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes, and it is all caught on tape, after a disastrous drag racing crash fueled by alcohol, leaving a 23-year-old Iraqi war veteran with irreversible brain damage. In court, Hulk Hogan`s family begs for mercy, but then caught on tape blaming the comatose victim, whining about the justice system and trying to land a reality TV show to rake in the money off the crash. After a judge denies Hogan`s demand for early release, Hogan sues the sheriff for releasing the jailhouse tapes.
But tonight another bombshell. It never ends, Hogan`s rep telling us point blank that Hogan is overcome with remorse, actively donating money to the victim. But the victim, who faces the rest of his life on a ventilator -- not one penny of charity money has gone to the victim or his family, and not one appearance by Nick Hogan specifically for the victim has yet surfaced. As we go to air, Hogan transferred to a cushy pod within Pinellas jail. He`s got cable TV, phone access, recreation time, library books, regular visitation, and hey, a snack bar! Tough life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After he`s caught on tape complaining about jailhouse conditions, at this hour, Hulk Hogan`s son is out of isolation, just hours ago, Nick Hogan transferred from a protective custody cell to a direct supervision area with three other inmates, according to the Pinellas County jail deputies, the decision based on routine assessments of inmate population. Hogan, under 24/7 supervision, now access to TV, and his prior visitation rights, three days a week, still remain in place, with access to a telephone and recreation time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, a quiet community in shock after a 1-year-old baby boy viciously attacked in his own back yard by pit bulls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 23-month-old boy playing in the yard with his grandma and a cousin when disaster strikes, the boy mauled by a pit bull mix, family`s other pit bull also jumps into the fray. The boy`s grandma calls 911 and tries to stop the vicious attack, but it was too late, the young boy`s face mauled, his nose ripped off, Grandma also attacked, suffering bites to her legs and arms, authorities eventually calming the dogs, who remain in quarantine tonight. The 23-month-old boy remains hospitalized, reportedly in severe pain.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight: Former "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes, Hogan and family caught on tape blaming the comatose victim, whining about the justice system and the release of jailhouse tapes. But tonight, another bombshell. Not one red penny of a so-called charity touted by Hogan and reps has made its way to the victim, facing life on a ventilator. And as we go to air, Hogan moved to a cushy wing of Pinellas jailhouse featuring cable TV, unlimited phone use, recreation time and a snack bar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In court, Hulk Hogan`s son touts a charity fund backed the Hogans and set up to raise thousands to provide support to the victim`s family. But tonight, according to the victim`s attorneys, the hospitalized Iraq war veteran and his family have yet to see one dime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To date, we`ve raised almost $60,000 to benefit brain trauma research and brain stem cell research. And also, part of that money is directly for John Graziano and his care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What no one has mentioned is prior to the time of his incarceration, he spent his time raising money for John and creating foundations so money would be available for John.
GRACE: OK, what foundation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s something Juanita (ph) is also not touching upon.
GRACE: Tell me about it. I`m happy to hear about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact is, money was raised...
GRACE: What foundation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... in order to assist John.
GRACE: Tell me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know the name, Nancy, but I`d be more than happy to provide it to you. If you`re going to base an opinion...
GRACE: You`re his lawyer!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on five-second sound bites, it`s ridiculous.
GRACE: If you don`t know about it, how do we know about it? How much money was raised, and has it gone to the victim`s family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Approximately $60,000 to date.
GRACE: Has it gone to the victim`s family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not to date, it has not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA, HULK HOGAN`S SON: It`s all you do. You just sit there and think, and there`s nothing to think about.
LINDA BOLLEA, MOTHER: You know, we`ll get through it. You got to do it, prove to everyone that you have learned your lesson.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Rory O`Neil with Metro Networks. First of all, what can you tell me about the change in cell conditions for Hogan?
RORY O`NEIL, METRO NETWORKS: Well, it will be a very drastic change, and it`s really what he had requested through his attorneys earlier this week. He`s going to be moving to a different cell, or is now in a different cell with three roommates, all of them juveniles, and this cell is part of a four-cell pod at the Pinellas County jail. The sheriff says the relocation was routine. I think it has to do with the fact that now they have four juveniles who all serving adult time.
GRACE: OK. Tell me this, Rory. Is there TV?
O`NEIL: There is TV. There is access to telephone. There`s access, again, as you had mentioned, to the books in the library and to the legal services there inside the jail, and family visitation three days a week.
GRACE: And the commissary.
O`NEIL: And the commissary.
GRACE: And recreation time.
O`NEIL: And an hour of recreation time every day, and there is some work that they do each day, but his schedule will not change. The change of cell is not changing his routine, but it is changing the amenities that surround him.
GRACE: Out to Noah Levy with "In Touch Weekly." I`m very curious about the so-called charity, the charity specifically for John Graziano, the victim in this case, facing the rest of his life on a ventilator. Everyone, we are taking your calls live.
Here`s a shot of John Graziano. He can`t complain about his conditions. He can`t speak. He`s on a ventilator. And what we have learned so far from Hogan reps is that Nick Hogan has been very remorseful, although we haven`t heard any of that on tape yet, and that he is raising money to help Graziano. But as of tonight, according to the Graziano attorneys, he or his family have neither received one red penny.
Out to Noah Levy of "In Touch Weekly." What can you tell me?
NOAH LEVY, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, you know, this whole thing sounds like a very sloppy media cover-up. You know, Nick Hogan went out of his way to claim that this charity took place, but no money has been stated or given to Nick`s family. Now, you would think that, at this point, Nick Hogan would be a little bit more media-savvy and go out of his way to look remorseful, go out of his way to do something good, or his family would do that for him.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN: This is such an honor to get (INAUDIBLE) A lot of you guys have seen the news out there and you know my son, Nick, got in a car wreck and they`re dedicating the towel and the flag (INAUDIBLE) to John Graziano. And he`s a very good friend of ours. He`s a United States Marine. He just came back from Iraq. And he was on the racing team (ph) with my son, Nick, and they got in a very bad car accident. So I want you guys to please say your prayers for John Graziano. You know, hopefully, he`ll be getting better soon. I`m heading back tomorrow morning. I`ll be back at the hospital with my family. We`ll be there each and every day, like we`ve been all week. We`ll be there every day until John gets up and walks out of there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is Hulk Hogan talking about the victim, John Graziano, about a week after the accident. This is from MySpace. There he vows to be at the hospital every single day until Graziano walks. But what you hear on tape is very, very different.
We are taking your calls. Out to Sue in Illinois. Hi, Sue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What is your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Congratulations on your twins, by the way.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, how convenient was it that he got out of isolation so quickly? I`m wondering if there was any money involved.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, the fact that you`re holding juveniles in isolation is not unusual. It`s amazing that they don`t have juvenile facilities for the juveniles there, that once they`re treated as adults, they go to an adult facility. You pretty much have to keep them in isolation to keep them out of the general population. But it seems to me just fortuitous. I don`t think that there was any hanky-panky on the part of the sheriff. I think some other juveniles came into the facility, treated as adults, and stuck them in a pod together.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That`s exactly right, Nancy, because he was in what they call protective custody. And I can tell you, the Pinellas sheriff`s office, they are real -- totally aboveboard. So they decided to go ahead, and as they say, part of their assessment, take a look at prisoner populations. There was enough people that came into the system that they decided to open up this pod, and that`s where he is now. I don`t have a real big problem with it. You know, you`ve got murderers. You`ve got other people who have access to television. He`s not getting any preferential treatment, what from what I see. They just decided...
GRACE: Hey, hey, hey!
BROOKS: ... to go ahead and move him to this pod.
GRACE: Hey, Brooks, I`m all for TV. In fact, I hope Nick Hogan is watching right now.
BROOKS: Absolutely.
GRACE: I hope his whole family is watching because his reps put it out there that they are so full of remorse and they`re raising all this money and going to the Graziano family or to the victim. They haven`t seen one red penny. Yet what do they talk about on these jailhouse tapes that they`re suing the sheriff over releasing? They`re not sorry...
BROOKS: Oh, yes.
GRACE: ... that they said it. They`re sorry that we found out about it.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was speaking with the attorney and guardian for the -- John Graziano and his family while the defense was making their presentation. (INAUDIBLE) so I think it`s important (INAUDIBLE) bring it to the court that this is the first time they`re hearing about the (INAUDIBLE), and the attorney and guardian indicated that they haven`t received any money from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LINDA BOLLEA: I think the best punishment for people that do like what you did in jail is do what they did to you, put you in solitary confinement, and so you got one week. That would be enough to change their mind about ever doing anything bad again.
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
LINDA BOLLEA: Because then the next time, you`re going to get three weeks.
NICK BOLLEA: Twenty-four hours is terrible.
LINDA BOLLEA: Oh, my gosh!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LINDA BOLLEA: I`m trying to be strong.
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
LINDA BOLLEA: It`s, like, so hard seeing you in there, you know? And I just know that you`ve been sad and you`re crying. And you`re all by yourself and just can`t do anything about it. It`s like a nightmare for me, too.
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
LINDA BOLLEA: I just want to go in there and just go, Give me my son!
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sherry in Canada. Hi, Sherry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`m just wondering how the Hogans would handle it, had it been their son laying in there. It seems to be a parenting issue to me. They support him in his bad behaviors and they don`t discipline him. I mean, they -- it`s just treated as if he did nothing wrong. You know, give him a slap on the wrist.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." Dr. Bethany, the reality is, if you take a careful listen to these tapes -- and this is Hulk Hogan on the phone with his son, Nick, the mom on the phone with Nick -- they actually talk about creating a reality show. And they say, Who do you want to make it with? What producer? And Nick Hogan says, Whoever I can make the most money. Speaking of parenting.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I mean, at the very least, this is disastrous parenting. Basically, they`re making him feel that it`s OK to profit off his best friend`s misery. And what really upsets me the most about this is Linda Hogan has engaged in a systematic, vicious attack on the other mother`s motherhood. She`s not sad, Linda says, she`s just acting angry like she just wants the money. John never meant anything to her or Ed? This vicious attack on this poor woman`s mothering is a way to cover up Linda`s own guilt. And if Linda can`t get in touch with her own feelings about what`s happening, how can she help her own son, Nick, make sense of what`s happening so he does not repeat these disastrous mistakes again and again?
GRACE: Out to the lawyers. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Joining us tonight out of Atlanta, Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor, Mickey Sherman, defense attorney and author. In New York, Richard Herman, veteran trial lawyer, also joining us. Weigh in, Eleanor.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, what I think`s even more interesting with this sentence is that the defendant got less than a year in jail, which means he`s serving time at the county jail, potentially able to get a two for one -- in other words, credit for two days for every one day served, instead of going to a state prison system, and I think that`s a tragedy here.
GRACE: Mickey?
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A couple of points. Number one, we have no business listening to their tapes. I`m sorry, I think they`re right. They...
GRACE: Are you back on that again?
SHERMAN: I`m -- totally. I can understand listening to the tapes and listening to conversations for security purposes, to hear some admissions, but then to show them to various media outlets -- that`s none of our business. We have no business looking through this guy`s underwear drawer.
And to condemn the parents because the money hasn`t been paid yet -- if you`re involved in any charity, you don`t make the money payable like that. It has to go through a board. They have a board of directors. Every charity does that. If somebody -- if the executive director just starts writing out checks, that`s abuse of the charity. These things are controlled by laws...
GRACE: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
SHERMAN: ... and by administrative schedules.
GRACE: OK, thanks, Mickey. To Richard Herman. Richard, have you ever heard of something called FOIA, Freedom of Information Act?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Nancy, but come on. This is a juvenile. The same rules don`t apply with juveniles, Nancy. And...
GRACE: In adult jail, yes, they do.
HERMAN: Well, he`s not in adult jail. He`s a juvenile.
GRACE: Yes, he is. He is in adult jail.
HERMAN: He sentenced as an adult, but he`s not in adult jail. He`s with juveniles.
GRACE: He is in adult jail!
HERMAN: But he`s -- you say it`s a cushy pod that he`s in? Nancy...
GRACE: He is in an adult jail. Do you want to retract what you just said?
HERMAN: Nancy...
GRACE: OK. Never mind. To Noah Levy. What jail is he in?
LEVY: Well, currently, he`s in a jail that he`s complaining about, which necessarily he should not be. You know, the surroundings do sound pretty cushy. And you know what? They sound pretty much like going to NYU and living in their dorm there or living in any average New York studio. He`s in a small space. He has a TV. It doesn`t sound too bad to me.
GRACE: Rory O`Neil of Metro Networks, Pinellas County is an adult jail.
O`NEIL: It is indeed, and a very overcrowded one, about 140, 160 percent of capacity. So it is a very busy, busy facility.
GRACE: Speaking of how they really feel, not what they did in court, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA: I miss going to the Sandpearl (ph) with you.
LINDA BOLLEA: I know! I`m at the beach all by myself! It`s not the same!
NICK BOLLEA: I miss sitting out on the water on the boat with you. I miss just getting into the Escalade and going to Orlando.
LINDA BOLLEA: I know, baby! We`re going to do all of that, OK? We`re going to do everything, but...
NICK BOLLEA: I wrote down...
LINDA BOLLEA: ... we`re not going to do it here in (DELETED) Florida!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LINDA BOLLEA: She`s not sad, she`s just acting angry like she just wants the money. John never meant anything to her or Ed. It`s just sad because I really appreciated you kids, and I just miss John and I miss you, too. And it`s, like, she`s not suffering. I am! I have the loss. She could give two (DELETED)
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: So that is what Dr. Bethany Marshall is talking about regarding Linda Hogan talking about the victim`s mother. Her son is on a ventilator.
Out to the lines. Mitch in California. Hi, Mitch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How`re you doing? A quick comment...
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and a question.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I noticed an eerie similarity between the Hogan family and the family of double murderer Scott Peterson, who will stop at nothing to protect their own. Now for my question. What can be done to monitor the assets of the Hogan family so when Pee-Wee Hogan has to finally pay out to the Graziano family, how will they stop the Hogans from moving their assets to a Swiss bank account?
GRACE: Well, let me make sure that -- nobody has been murdered in this case. While I appreciate your thoughts on this, comparing them to the Petersons -- to Eleanor Dixon. I don`t see that there`s a way at this juncture to track the assets of the Hogan family.
DIXON: No, you can`t do that legally. Of course, I expect a lawsuit to come soon out of all this, and it`s too bad the defendant wasn`t ordered to pay restitution.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICK BOLLEA: It wouldn`t even be that bad if I can see other people. I can`t. I`m in some (DELETED) suicide ward, and there`s some crazy (DELETED) singing and tapping on the walls.
LINDA BOLLEA: Oh, no. Oh, God!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can`t go to the library because that would be involving other inmates. He`s not allowed to be around other inmates because of his classification. Yes, he has visited with the chaplain. And more importantly, what no one has mentioned is, prior to the time of his incarceration, he spent his time raising money for John and creating a foundation so money would be available for John.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The victim`s family has not seen one red cent from the so- called charity his lawyer was touting. Now, that`s a veteran trial lawyer out of the Reno area. That is David Houston who is representing the Hogans. We put them -- we sent them some very interesting questions about the charity. How much had gone to the victim, when Nick Hogan had appeared on behalf of the charity, has he gone to high schools, colleges, talked to kids about drag racing, what? We got nothing back. Does that mean that nothing has been done?
Out to Eleanor Dixon. Eleanor, you would think if this guy had actually done something, we`d hear about it, if he had been speaking to youth groups, if he had been out raising money, having car washes, whatever, anything. Throw me a bone!
DIXON: Oh, I know. And when you think about it, Nancy, this is a famous family. They`d be videotaping these appearances all over the place. Their lawyer would tell them to do that. And you haven`t seen it being done.
GRACE: Well, actually -- to Mickey Sherman and Richard Herman -- what they`re saying is that there is an effort to have everybody in America wave a towel simultaneously on...
SHERMAN: He`s trying to raise money!
GRACE: ... as I was trying to say -- on July the 4th, but you pay $5 for the towel and that`s going to go to a list, a big list of charities. But after the one appearance of Hogan, we haven`t seen anything else. What happened, Richard?
HERMAN: Nancy, I know you want to waterboard this guy, but listen...
GRACE: No, I don`t. I want the truth.
HERMAN: They formed a charity a week after the accident. Graziano lived with the Hogan family for six years...
GRACE: So I`m going to wave a towel.
HERMAN: ... prior to this accident. They`re raising money for him, Nancy. Come on!
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN: Kevin`s on his way down there, and then we`re all over it with the shizza. You know what I`m saying?
NICK BOLLEA: Yes.
HULK HOGAN: So just hang tizza for me, OK?
NICK BOLLEA: OK. Is Mom there?
HULK HOGAN: Yes. I love you with all my heart. You want to talk to Mama?
NICK BOLLEA: I love you, too.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was speaking with the attorney and guardian for the -- for John Graziano and his family while the defense was making their presentation. It was brought to my attention so I think it`s important to be bringing it to the court that this is the first time they`re hearing about the (INAUDIBLE) and the attorney and guardian indicated that they haven`t received any money from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the state`s attorney, and he is saying he doesn`t know anything about this so-called charitable fund that Hogan`s reps are telling us about. We are talking about a fund for an Iraqi war veteran, 23 years old, facing the rest of his life on a ventilator. There`s a shot of Graziano. That is what his life will be. He was in the car along with Nick Hogan, and an alcohol-induced crash left him paralyzed.
Out to the lines. Elva in Arizona. Hi, Elva.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you. I love your show, and thank you for your support for victims` rights.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John, you know, supposedly lived with the Hogans for the last six years and he`s like family. And when family gets injured, family goes around to family members and prays and supports them. Why isn`t he being treated like family?
GRACE: You know, Bethany, she`s got a point. And we heard Hulk Hogan say that they`d be at the hospital every single day until Graziano walked again. What happened?
MARSHALL: Well, because the fact that they`re really angry at John, because they perceive him as having victimized them, has mobilized such a resistance to taking responsibility for this that they`ve completely dropped him. So why don`t they go to the hospital? Why don`t they write a check right now, instead of waiting for the money to come through from the charity? Why don`t they go and rub lotion on his hands and feet?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICK HOGAN, HULK HOGAN`S SON: It`s just like so lonely in there.
LINDA HOGAN, NICK HOGAN`S MOTHER: Oh.
N. HOGAN: I just went back to my cell and I`m laying there sitting thinking about how to get of there and I`m just like sitting there thinking and you sit and you sit. You just do nothing. You just sit there. It`s all you do.
You just sit there. You think and there`s nothing to think about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Right now we have learned, not only from the victim`s family but from the state`s attorney, that the victim has not received one penny of the charitable money that Hogan`s reps have told us about.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Nicole in Texas. Hi, Nicole.
NICOLE, TEXAS RESIDENT: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: Hi, dear. What is your question?
NICOLE: I`d like the know how this is affecting the Hogans` divorce.
GRACE: Interesting question.
To Bethany Marshall, how does that factor into the scenario?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, it`s hard to say. I mean, it could be placing tremendous stress on the marriage but I think what`s really happening is this threesome is mobilizing against everyone around them in order to collaborate on a sense that they have done nothing wrong, because, look, Hulk Hogan`s fined for this minor having a driver`s license.
He bought beer on the day of the crash. Linda has engaged in some egregious parenting. Just now she told him that, you know, yes, it is intolerable to be -- in jail.
So I think the more they cover up their sense of culpability and guilt, the more solidified they could become in a kind of a pathological sort of way.
GRACE: Joining us tonight, Dr. Leigh Vinocur, emergency room physician joining us out of Washington, D.C.
Doctor, thank you for being with us.
DR. LEIGH VINOCUR, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN: My pleasure, Nancy.
GRACE: If you could explain to me the injuries the victim has sustained.
VINOCUR: Well, he`s got a severe brain injury. I mean it`s been months and months and he`s still unconscious. There was a question whether he had a brain stem injury which affects consciousness and breathing and heart rate. Is that why he is on the ventilator?
I mean without examining him myself, his medical records are private. But I did hear that they had removed part of his frontal lobe so he had a lot of bleeding there. They took out part of the skull there.
So these are very serious brain injuries, and the more serious they are, the longer you`re comatose, the less chance of recovering.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Jill in Georgia. Hi, Jill.
JILL, GEORGIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
JILL: My question is if Linda Hogan is so concerned about her son, how come she was seen out in Las Vegas at the Palm with a 19-year-old boy that is supposedly good friends with the Hogans, partying it up, having drinks, and letting the boy have a drink, seeing her dancing on the dance floor, and having a good time? If she`s so concerned.
GRACE: There is a shot -- there is a shot of the party that -- the Vegas party that Jill is talking about.
Bethany, what about it?
MARSHALL: Well, it`s interesting because I wonder if she`s replaced her son. And this is the kind of relationship she had with her son, supplying alcohol and partying him, has replaced John Graziano.
GRACE: You know I don`t know quite -- well, there`s no nice way to put it.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Mickey Sherman, Richard Herman.
To you, Mickey, if Graziano was like the family.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": Yes.
GRACE: Why are they out partying like that.
SHERMAN: They`re allowed. They`re allowed.
GRACE: . if a member of their family is on a ventilator?
SHERMAN: They are allowed to live their lives.
GRACE: OK.
SHERMAN: And don`t forget, this was an accident. It wasn`t an intentional crime.
GRACE: True.
SHERMAN: It was an accident. And the alcohol level was not above the legal limit. OK?
GRACE: Hold on, hold on. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
SHERMAN: How about the other kid wasn`t arrested -- the other kid didn`t go to jail who was racing him.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Probation.
SHERMAN: Yes.
GRACE: First of all, Eleanor Dixon, I think you`ll agree with me that when you choose to drink and drive, it`s not an accident. It`s a crash. No, you don`t set out intending to have a crash. But when you drink, you make the conscious decision to drink and then you get into a car.
That is not an accident. Look at this. Did you see that crash video?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: It is awful. It`s no accident. It`s an intentional act when you`re drinking and driving and when you`re under 21, any amount of alcohol.
SHERMAN: And what was his alcohol level?
DIXON: . in your system is against the law. Period.
SHERMAN: What was his alcohol level?
GRACE: Hold on. You know, Eleanor, I couldn`t hear -- I couldn`t make it out what you said. Could you repeat that?
DIXON: I said if you`re under the legal drinking age, any amount of alcohol in your system is against the law and it goes towards that reckless driving, that behavior, that intentional behavior to consume alcohol and then drive. It resulted in the crash.
GRACE: And Richard, what about the fact that there had already been two drag racing incidents? Doesn`t that -- doesn`t that bug anybody but me?
HERMAN: No. That`s horrible, but Nancy, there`s going to be a multimillion dollar recovery and a civil lawsuit here. There are deep pockets t. The family is going to recover multiples of millions of dollars.
GRACE: What deep pockets? Whoa, wait.
HERMAN: The Hogan family.
GRACE: I said ow, ow, ow. You don`t -- I can hear you.
HERMAN: Hulk Hogan.
GRACE: The Hogan`s family is not going to be responsible. You can`t sue the parents over what the son did.
HERMAN: The owner of the vehicle was Hulk Hogan. He will be a joint defendant. He will be responsible and he is a deep pocket. The family`s going to recover multiples of millions of dollars.
GRACE: So your point is?
HERMAN: My point is the $60,000 charity.
GRACE: And you think that`s going to happen in the next 10 years with the way our system is glutted?
HERMAN: Well, I don`t think the family needs the money to go out for dinner. The poor kid is laying there in the hospital. The insurance is covering those expenses right now. There`s going to be a.
GRACE: So you don`t think the family needs the money to go out to dinner. I`m sure the Grazianos are glad to hear nobody`s going to buy them a meal.
Out to the lines, Annette in Canada. Hi, Annette.
ANNETTE, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Hi. I just want to know, for once, how can any parent, whether it be Hulk Hogan or whom, could go and giving child alcohol under the age. I live in Canada. That don`t happen. That is against the law. Where is the law when these things are coming into effect? I thought.
GRACE: To Rory O`Neill, what do we actually know about where Baby Hogan got the booze?
RORY O`NEILL, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS: Well, we do know that Hulk Hogan was buying liquor with the Graziano and with Nick earlier in the day before they had gone boating. They had bought a pretty large amount of alcohol. I don`t remember the exact numbers.
So it was at least a couple of cases of beer and that was purchased earlier in the day in the presence of the other two and then the three of them had gone off together for the day.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Carla in California. Hi, Carla.
CARLA, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi. I have three questions.
GRACE: OK.
CARLA: One is, has he been in trouble for drinking and racing before, which I think he has been in trouble for drinking and driving but the racing? Now why he wasn`t put in the California Youth Authority, because that`s probably where he should have went. He was probably -- rather be where he is right now than in CYA. And how would these attorneys feel if it was their kid laying there -- in the hospital?
GRACE: OK. Number one, he had been in trouble before for drag racing. Two citations. This is the third that we know of. He can`t go to California Youth Authority because it happened in Florida. And I`m right there with you, many, many jurisdictions, Carla, in California, have juvenile facilities. That`s where he needs to be until he turns 18 and then he can go to big jail.
And the attorneys, if we can actually get them to answer the question. To you Mickey Sherman, if this were your child, God forbid, would you still have the same answers?
SHERMAN: If my child was Hulk Hogan`s son?
GRACE: No, Graziano.
SHERMAN: Or the victim? No, I`d be mad as hell. I`d be suing the pants off and I`d be -- and I`d be calling your show every night. And that`s -- that`s a normal reaction for a victim and the normal reaction for the person of the family, the person who commits the crime, intentional or unintentional, is to rally around him. Instead of calling these people egregious parenting, all they`re trying to do is be supportive of their kid.
There`s nothing with that.
GRACE: I don`t think attacking Graziano`s mother.
SHERMAN: In private.
GRACE: . and saying that she doesn`t have any feelings.
SHERMAN: In private.
GRACE: . in any way is helping her son?
SHERMAN: In private.
GRACE: And I didn`t hear at any point any expression of remorse.
Out to Tim in Ohio. Hi, Tim.
TIM, OHIO RESIDENT: Hi. My question to you is, with the release of these tapes, I know you said that he was probably going to get -- only serve half a sentence. Do you think the judge is going to make him -- serve his full sentence now?
GRACE: Interesting question.
Eleanor Dixon, I don`t think it`s going to be up to the judge. The reality is that the judge gives the sentence which I thought was extremely light and, as Eleanor pointed out, did not include any restitution to the victim.
But it`s up to the jail about how long they can keep him in on the eight-month sentence.
DIXON: That`s right. As I`ve said before, the sheriff gets to decide because he`s in a county facility and he could get it, like, two days count as, you know, or one day count as two days for him in the jail whereas in the state prison system he`d have to serve every day.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks -- weigh in, Mike.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, I`ll tell you what. If he cuts his sweetheart deal and the sheriff decides to let him out, I guarantee you it will probably be the last term this sheriff ever serves.
And the other thing, Nancy. With this money -- if the parents want to find out whether or not there really is the charitable organizations, they can play -- they can check with the IRS because if they`re registered there`ll be a 501(c)-(3) charitable organization registered with treasury.
GRACE: Everybody, let`s stop because, as we do every night, we salute our troops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First off, I want to thank you for everything you`re doing for the troops. I wanted to tell my husband Nathan that we love and miss him so much. We`re so very proud of you. Stay safe and be careful. God bless you and all of the military troops.
I pray for your safe return. I love and miss you always. Happy Father`s Day to all of the troops,. IEF Blacksmith.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: NANCY GRACE brought to you by.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN, WRESTLEMANIA AND REALITY TV CELEBRITY: You know if I`m producing the show I won`t screw, you know that.
N. HOGAN: Yes, of course.
H. HOGAN: I`ll get you everything. I`ll make you an owner.
N. HOGAN: Yes.
H. HOGAN: You own the show.
N. HOGAN: Yes.
H. HOGAN: Yes. So let me get to work on that with Eric tonight. He`s here, too.
N. HOGAN: OK, cool.
H. HOGAN: So, dude, we can get that pulled off, dude.
N. HOGAN: Reality.
H. HOGAN: "The New Nick" -- we`ll call it "The New Nick" or something, or something. We`ll have to come up with a good name. Think of a good name.
N. HOGAN: I`ll be thinking of a good name.
H. HOGAN: The.
N. HOGAN: It will be reality how I`m getting back on my feet and how I`m recovering after the celebrity out of jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The latest tonight, number one, Nick Hogan has been moved to a cushy area of the jail. TV, telephone, snack bar, commissary. Also, the charities, the family`s been touting that they are working so hard on, the state`s attorney and victims` family said they haven`t seen one red cent of that.
Out to the lines, Joel in Texas. Hi, Joel.
JOEL, TEXAS RESIDENT: Hi, how are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
JOEL: I want to know that since the Marine that`s in the comma is in the military and if the -- and the taxpayers are paying his bill for being hurt, if the taxpayers are going to be able to sue the Hogan Jr. or Hogan Sr., either one for reimbursement.
GRACE: Joel, are you a veteran?
JOEL: No, ma`am. I`m not.
GRACE: OK. Got the bad news for you. I hope you`re sitting down. No, the taxpayers cannot sue the Hogan family. In fact, I think there may even be a problem trying to sue Hulk Hogan, Eleanor Dixon.
DIXON: It may be because he actually didn`t do the crime itself. He didn`t commit the act and the only way you can is if you can tie him to the alcohol and to the car.
GRACE: Everybody, I want to switch stairs right now and update you on a story out of California.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A lot of blood. That`s what neighbors saw Wednesday morning in Poquoma. The people who lived here had two dogs, a pit bull and pit bull mix. At least one of them turned on the family member -- a baby boy.
Fire fighters had to use fire extinguishers on the dogs so paramedics could reach the baby. Emergency crews helicoptered him to Children`s Hospital Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Straight out to reporter John Ramey with KNX 1070. I understand it was a German mix dog. What happened?
JOHN RAMEY, REPORTER, KNX 1070: Well, there are three different accounts of what happened. The fire department responded first on the scene. They said two pit bulls. The police department responded next. They said a pit bull and a pit bull mix. Now Animal Control is saying a pit bull mix who did not commit the attack. The German Shepherd mix is apparently the dog implicated in the attack.
GRACE: OK. Back to the question. What happened?
RAMEY: Firefighters responded to a call of a screaming woman around 11:00 a.m. yesterday morning. When they arrived on the scene, they were unable to access entry into the house. They had to spray the dogs in question to keep them down to cross the front yard. When they arrived, they found the wounded child.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, how do you go back and recreate an incident like this to determine what happened?
BROOKS: It is very, very difficult, Nancy. Out there were no eyewitnesses at all. It`s going to be very, very difficult, especially the grandmother (INAUDIBLE) and another kid were watching this little boy. You know, where were they? Were they inside the house? Were they outside of the house?
But again, it`s going to be eyewitness testimony and also, anybody else that knew this child -- any kids. We see kids outside the house. You know what did they see? Did something happen with the boy and the dog? You know, we -- they just don`t know right now.
GRACE: Well, he was only 23 months old. I doubt the boy could have instigated a vicious attack on the dog and from my understanding, the grandmother and others were outside with the child.
BROOKS: Yes. It`s -- but still, you know, what happened?
GRACE: What? Are you taking up for the dog?
BROOKS: Well, you know, as I always say, Nancy, I`m sorry. I know you -- you go off on this. There are no bad dogs. Only bad owners. Now you know.
GRACE: OK, OK, OK, OK. All right. All righty.
To John Ramey, is there any suggestion a 23-month-old child did something to instigate this attack? That is ridiculous.
RAMEY: There has been nothing spoken of that nature that the 23- month-old was at all provocative in behavior.
GRACE: Out to the lines Cathy in Alabama. Hi, Cathy.
CATHY, ALABAMA RESIDENT: I want to know if the owners, whether it`s the parents or not, can be charged with murder if this child dies.
GRACE: Interesting question. What about it, Mickey?
SHERMAN: No way. First of all, they can`t be charged with anything unless it`s demonstrated that this dog had a history of biting people or had a vicious nature. There had to be some foreseeability here. And now we`re hearing that it wasn`t a pit bull.
GRACE: Agree, Richard?
HERMAN: Mickey is 100 percent. There`s usually a one free bite rule, Nancy. If they have no propensity, this dog never attacked in the past, the owners are going to go scot-free here.
GRACE: Eleanor?
DIXON: You know you always hear that one bite. Well, this first bite was all it took to injure this child. And what about a reckless conduct charge or criminal negligence?
HERMAN: What did they do that was reckless?
GRACE: Back to John Ramey -- let`s find out.
John is joining us from KNX 1070. What were the conditions? What were -- did the dogs have a history of aggressive behavior?
RAMEY: There has been nothing reported that said there was any kind of a negative or violent history with either of the animals.
GRACE: You know, to Lisa Lange, senior vice president of PETA -- Lisa, thank you for being with us. I find it difficult to believe that anything instigated this attack on a tiny baby. From the PETA point of view, weigh in.
LISA LANGE, SENIOR VICE-PRESIDENT, PETA: Yes. I think you can know a lot about an incident like this if you ask the right questions. The CDC says that there are close to 5 million dog bites every year. The vast majority of those dog bites are done by animals who have not been neutered so have these dogs been neutered?
Did these dogs spend any time on a chain or in another situation that has made it so that they`re not socialized? How are they treated every day? Have they ever been abused? You know an animal who is not socialized, who`s not regularly watched, who isn`t treated the right way is more inclined to attack.
There are all these question that need to be asked because.
GRACE: I just don`t think under any circumstances an animal should be alone with infants. I just -- it confounds me that anybody would do that. I don`t even allow, in Atlanta, a cat, 18 years old, to be around the twins. I mean, no. Without me right there, forget it.
LANGE: Well, I think, you know, that -- you know, people should be cautious especially around big dogs like this and I really find it hard to believe that they have never shown any signs of aggression before now.
GRACE: You know I`m going to go back to John Ramey on that. Lisa Lange has a good point.
How were they maintained? Were they on a leash? Were they running free? Was there gate up? I understand there was a big sign that said "Beware Dog." So somebody must have been concerned about the dogs` behavior.
RAMEY: Well, I just want to point out the fact that the grandmother was supervising the 23-month-old at the time of the attack so it would be inaccurate to say that the dog was unsupervised around the child.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: We got a call of a screaming woman at this location. Officers responded and realized it was a pit bull attack. It appears in our preliminary investigation there was adult supervision when the incident occurred and the dog for whatever reason attacked the child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want to go out to Dr. Leigh Vinocur, emergency room physician.
How would this attack translate if the victim is an adult?
VINOCUR: Well, no. And what happens is with toddlers, sometimes they toddle over and they can just accidentally fall on top of a dog and the saying let sleeping dogs lie is for a reason.
Dogs get startled when they`re eating. That`s why toddlers really shouldn`t be around dogs. So you know, how closely was the dog supervised? When you have a toddler with a dog, you should be right there. If it`s a calm dog, ask the owner and be touching the dog with the toddler. Don`t let the toddler supervise -- you know and a third of these dogs are family pets.
GRACE: You know, earlier, Dr. Vinocur had made the comparison that a dog attack on a child like this is like a bear attack on an adult.
Out to the lines. Joshua in Tennessee. Hi, Joshua.
JOSHUA, TENNESSEE: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
JOSHUA: OK. If this child was attacked by this dog, why wasn`t the grandmother around far enough in decent.
GRACE: You know, John Ramey, where was the grandmother?
RAMEY: You know that`s not been disclosed at this point. All we have heard from reports is that there was some supervision. But rather apparently it wasn`t a very close-up supervision.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Captain David Schultz, 25. Blue Island, Illinois, killed, Iraq. A Northern Illinois University grad, awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. Lost his life just hours after watching video of his newborn son crawl for the very first time.
Wonderful, caring, loved country music, hunting, fishing, snakes, football, wrestling and collecting school supplies and soccer balls from his hometown for Iraqi children. Leaves behind parents David and Marjorie, widow Sabrina, baby boy Logan.
David Schultz American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night to one of our show`s most loyal fans. Miss Mary Rogers in Macon, Georgia has passed away. Our prayers are with you and your family at this time of sorrow.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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