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Israeli Cabinet Official Setting Off Firestorm of Concern and Reaction; Gas Hit $4 Mark; Bill Clinton Uncorked; Murderous Rampage on a Japanese Street
Aired June 08, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, an attack on Iran, quote, "Unavoidable." Words from an Israeli cabinet official that are setting off a firestorm of concern, reaction and this.
Tonight, gas has hit the $4 mark. That is the new national average. Christiane Amanpour on the conflict. Ali Velshi on the impact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's still a scumbag. It's part of the national media's attempt to nail Hillary for Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Bill Clinton uncorked, but is he right? Why didn't Hillary win?
What is this man doing to our first lady?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the Muslim name. I've heard that he won't salute the flag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Many, many Americans believe them, but are they true? Obama myths running amok.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like somebody dropped a big bomb here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Not a bomb, a tornado outside Chicago.
And in Indiana, look at this flooding.
We are jam-packed and we are breaking it down for you now.
And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. Tonight, politics, energy and the threat of war. An Israeli cabinet member is saying tonight that an attack on Iraq is, quote, "Unavoidable." We are all over that with Christiane Amanpour who's going to be joining us in just a little bit.
Also, look at the pictures coming in from the flooding in Indiana and the tornado in Chicago. How many people dead? How many flights now canceled? We are all over that as well.
But the story that will impact all of us immediately is this. It is now official. Tonight, the national average for the price of gas is at $4 a gallon. Here, our senior business correspondent, Ali Velshi.
I know that this is just a number, but doesn't this set almost or trigger a -- a reality check in Americans?
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Well, first of all, it's just a number, but it happens to be a nice round one that causes us all to sit down and think about how we drive and how we consume fuel. The other thing is less the number than the trend. The fact is we were talking about $3 a gallon and then $3.50 and now four.
So if you think it's going higher that you have to make decisions in your life. We've seen those decisions. In April we saw it and in May we saw it. People are running away from trucks and SUVs. The airlines are mothballing their big planes. The ones that take too much gas because people aren't flying as much.
So the bottom line is Americans have started to make decisions. They started at $3.50 a gallon. They're going to make more decisions at $4 a gallon.
SANCHEZ: And if Americans were upset before they're just going to continually get even more upset as they keep getting this news. So let me ask you what I think. A lot of folks at home would want to know. Is this just a natural consequence? What we're seeing with gas prices continuing to go up or, Ali, is somebody, somewhere playing with profits at our expense?
VELSHI: Well, there's probably a little bit of everything. There's some real demand that's going on. In the United States, we use 20 million barrels of gas of oil a day. We only develop about 5 million of that. So about a quarter of what we use. So a lot of it is supply and demand in India, and China, and Russia, and the Middle East. But there is excess speculation possibly going on in the oil market.
We know that because it's returning a better investment than other things. So the government is looking into that. We don't know what they'll find, but the bottom line is that these prices $139 on Friday that a barrel of oil got to, we're not done with the $4 a gallon.
This is going to go higher. We don't know how long and how high, but it's headed in that direction. So the only thing you can do right now is until we have the answer to your question, Rick, do something that's going to make you spend less on fuel and energy.
SANCHEZ: But there are investigations going on. We should probably let our viewers know that as well.
VELSHI: Absolutely. There's one in particular by what's called the Commodities Future Trading Commission. That's the body that is supposed to be overseeing oil trading. I'll tell you the bad side about this, they've been in charge of this oil trading for a while and didn't see fit until December to start investigating under a great deal of pressure.
So we're not sure what they're going to come up with, but if there's speculation, they say they'll find it.
SANCHEZ: Ali Velshi, thanks so much for joining us.
If you're wondering tonight what has catapulted the price of gasoline to $4, in large measure, it is this.
It's an ominous threat by an Israeli official about attacking Iran. This comment comes from this man. He's a cabinet member, Shaul Mofaz, who sent shockwaves through world markets the other day.
He said, quote, "If Iran continues with its program for developing nuclear weapons, we will attack. The sanctions are ineffective, he goes on to say. Attacking Iran in order to stop its nuclear plans will be -- and here's the word that's bothered a lot of people -- unavoidable."
Might this become a scary reality or is it just internal Israeli political bluster.
Joining us now is international correspondent Atika Shubert.
I guess you know as people look at this story here, stateside, they know what can happen when public opinion can lead to military intervention. So the question is there in Israel, do people view this statement as something far a field or is there any type of general consensus for something like this?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here in Israel, many people, they take Iran's threats very seriously. President Ahmadinejad has threatened to wipe Israel off the map. He denies the holocaust. So people here really view Iran as the biggest threat to the country.
So this kind of tough talk by ambitious politicians here is nothing new and is generally supported by the public. Israel has taken military action before, limited military targets in Iraq in 1981, in Syria, just last year largely with the support of the public. So it's not unusual to hear this kind of talk here.
SANCHEZ: So when somebody stands up and says an attack is "unavoidable," quote, unquote, that's the word that he used. There's no raised eyebrows there that this guy might be inflaming a situation? SHUBERT: There are certainly raised eyebrows, but what's important to know here is the context. This is a politician. A member of the cabinet who is in line possibly to become the prime minister. Elections could very well happen by the end of this year. So this kind of tough talk is almost expected of ambitious politicians as they try and burnish their leadership credentials ahead of any possible election.
SANCHEZ: CNN's Atika Shubert reporting to us to from Jerusalem. Thank you so much, Atika.
All right, from that let's go to this now. There's so much being said about this tonight. Important information including criticism of Mofaz who remember wants to be Israel's next prime minister.
Let me read to you now what Israel's deputy defense minister is saying tonight. He says "Turning one of the most strategic security issues into a political game, using it for the internal purposes of a would-be campaign in Kadima -- that's Mofaz's political party, by the way -- is something that must not be done."
So now that you've heard the reaction from Israel, let's get a more global perspective by talking to one of our own who is not only an expert on the region, but an expert on Iran specifically as well.
Our chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour is joining me now by phone.
Christiane, many may dismiss this as posturing by an Israeli politician. But would this cause in Tehran a momentum to be or become even more combative?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very interesting the reactions from the Israeli official you quoted there because he's portrayed, as Atika did, in terms of domestic politics in Israel with this almost fatally wounded Prime Minister Ehud Olmert whose indictment apparently according to officials is just a matter of time. And of course, there are other officials jockeying to become prime minister.
However, this very, very blunt warning about attacking Iran in certain circumstances by Shaul Mofaz is being considered in the diplomatic community among people that I've been talking to as actually quite, quite a serious issue. That it is the first time a cabinet minister has said something so specific, so publicly about this particular issue.
You know, ever since the United States went to war in Iraq in 2003 there were questions about which country would be next. Some speculated Syria and many speculated Iran. And that sort of will they, won't they kind of attitude toward Iran has been going up and down for the last several years.
Over the last few years it sort of abated and now it's gaining momentum in public again. And of course, you can make all sorts of conjectures about this. You can say that President Bush is at the end of his presidency and as many have speculated before and as he even said himself once, that he doesn't want to leave Iran's nuclear program for the next president to deal with.
So right now, there's sort of a confluence of rhetoric and of opinion against Iran that is at a spike, if you like.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you, Christiane, this question because I can imagine that a lot of our viewers are listening to you speak right now, and they're thinking something that goes like this. They've already seen 4,000 U.S. soldiers who have lost their lives in Iraq.
How do you take this kind of back and forth between Israel and Iran, and are U.S. interests inextricably tied to Israel's interests. Therefore, many would say their battle becomes our battle?
AMANPOUR: Well, the two separate instances that you've mentioned here. The issue of American soldiers being killed in Iraq. The United States and the president on down have accused Iran of supplying weapons to militias inside Iraq that are being used to attack American soldiers. That in and of itself could be a cause of ally.
Then you have the nuclear issue which is something the United States and Europe have been very concerned about over the last several years. And as I say, a few years ago, there was a lot more talk about a military action to take out nuclear sites in Iran.
And then that sort of abated because the perception was that the United States was stretched. Iraq wasn't going well. The military was very stretched and the reaction in the region could prove too costly for such an attack.
However, now you've got the end of an administration. You've got a president potentially looking at a legacy. You've got the IAEA, which is the U.N. nuclear agency, has come out with some stiff words and stiff rhetoric against Iran in the last ten days or so saying that it has been stonewalling on old questions. These are questions from years ago, that the IAEA still wants answered about information it has that potentially talk about a nuclear weapons program.
I must say, though, that the IAEA's information is consistent with the U.S. NIE's information and it does not show any work towards the nuclear weapon or other evidence beyond 2003 and 2004. When it's you know that very controversial NIE report several months ago said that Iran had ceased to work on a nuclear weapon's design and nuclear weapons program.
But nonetheless, the general tenor, the rhetoric, the accusations against Iran have been mounting quite significantly and now you have this cabinet minister in Israel making a blunt warning.
Now, you talked about the United States. It's considered that if Israel were to attack Iran's nuclear sites it would not be able to do so without refueling assets in the air from the United States. So that is a way the U.S. could be involved if it doesn't decide to do it itself. SANCHEZ: Well, I'll tell you, probably some diplomacy at hand this week after a statement like this. We're certainly going to be following it and we thank you, Christiane Amanpour, for taking time to share your important insight on this story.
AMANPOUR: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Coming up, there's flooding, and then there's flooding. This is flooding. More than we've seen in a long, long time, maybe as widespread at least in terms of the pictures that we first saw coming out of Katrina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've heard he doesn't pledge allegiance to the flag. You know, that's a concern for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: He doesn't pledge allegiance to the flag. Is that right? We're going right after what many people truly believe in this country about Senator Obama. Fact or fiction? We lay it out.
And a man goes on a murderous rampage on a Japanese street. When was the last time you heard of a stabbing spree? Back in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Clinton, the candidate, out. But was her undoing all her doing? Did the media help push Hillary Clinton off the campaign trail? We become introspective about ourselves, about this. That's ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB POTEMPA, I-REPORTER, MONEE, ILLINOIS: Look at all that debris.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Oh, my God is right. Imagine this massive twister barreling toward your home? CNN I-reporter Bob Potempa and his family watching this tornado as it rips along the ground, Saturday. This isn't the plains or tornado alley. This is just 30 miles from downtown Chicago -- Monee, Illinois. A line of tornadoes pounding these southern suburbs.
Look at these. It tears up the trees and shears off roofs off buildings and knocks out power to, at last check -- what is it? 40,000 homes. And here's the scene today. A little closer to the city.
Let's show you this apartment complex. Look at this. It took a direct hit from the tornado. Much of the roof is gone. Whatever was inside, scattered. 30 miles from Chicago, cars flipped, power lines down. It could be several days before everyone's utilities are restored in this case.
Disaster of a different flavor next door. This is in Indiana. Look at these shots. This is in Columbus, just a few miles from the Indianapolis City limits. They got dumped on ten inches of rain or more in just a couple of hours. Now the flash floods swept away and killed at least one person in Columbus. Two other people killed in flooded parts of Michigan. The entire town, every street, every yard under water tonight.
More pictures that we can show you now. We'll just flip through these as we look at them. Some of these flooded parts of Indiana haven't seen this much water in a century we're told. State officials won't even estimate at this point the property damage just yet.
It's going to be high, though. That dollar figure will be enormous. And in Iowa we're learning tonight that the entire town of New Hartford has been evacuated because of floodwaters as well. That's about 650 people.
I can't remember when I've seen flooding pictures, Jacqui Jeras, like these with of course the possible exception of Katrina, which was a devastation of a different sort. But this is so widespread. What are they saying? More than 40 different counties, right?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, yes, that's just Indiana, too, by the way, Rick. This flooding is going on extensively in many surrounding states. There's a lot of flood concerns in Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota and we're also watching places like Missouri.
The weather pattern is set up where we're just going to continue to see these active systems move on through, bringing in severe weather and bringing in flooding. And those pictures that you see off to the side there, they're going to continue to be at least that large over the next several days.
All right. Let's talk about the severe weather threat. Look at all the watches which are lined up right now. We're tracking one possible tornado just outside of the Milwaukee area to the south of there. This is for Kenosha County. A possible tornado moving near the airport right now. This is pushing off to the east so you need to be seeking shelter immediately there.
In addition to that, this line is moving across southern parts of Wisconsin. Moving over a very saturated area. We've seen a good three to six inches of rainfall in the last two days here and these individual thunderstorms can put down an additional two inches per hour at times.
Now, let's talk about how extensive that flood threat is and all the reports you were talking about Indiana and around the Indianapolis area there, Rick. We've got reports of extensive flooding around Milwaukee. That's going to move down into the Rosin area into southwest from Wisconsin, into southern Minnesota and northeastern Iowa.
We've got reports of mudslides there. And then you mentioned that town with all the flooding in New Hartford area. A levee actually breached there. The people have been evacuated. Everyone is told to stay at UNI, University of Northern Iowa, there until this passes. And the river hasn't even crested yet.
So we're talking about three to six inches of rain on top of what they already had. Just really compounding the problems in the next few days and on top of all of this, people in the east who aren't getting the wet weather are dealing with record heat.
SANCHEZ: There you go.
Jacqui, we'll keep checking back with you. I mean, it's amazing to watch what some of those people are going through. And you know, because there was a type of flash floods, because there were some dams that burst, really, they ended up having to react in an instant. That's why they're still going through there to see if there are any other victims. We'll keep checking on that and we'll keep checking with Jacqui.
Meanwhile to this terrible story from Japan. A random and shocking act of violence. Police are saying a 25-year-old man intentionally plows a truck into a huge crowd of pedestrians in Tokyo. And then this terrifying situation turns bizarre.
He gets out of the truck, right? And he goes on a rampage with a knife. He stabs and he slashes at some of the surprised onlookers wondering why he's doing this. He ends up stabbing 18 people, seven of whom died. We don't yet know if the people who died were hit by a truck or killed with a knife. Tokyo police tackled the man. He is in jail tonight.
Coming up, is Barack Obama a Muslim or not? Did he refuse to pledge allegiance to the flag?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says he's Christian, but at the beginning, he said he was I think Muslim?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We do our part to separate fact from fiction.
Plus, did Hillary Clinton get a fair shake or was the media out to get her? Her husband has some pointed opinions.
All right, now, look at this. This is the mayhem on the streets of Korea. Pictures coming in to us now. We're going to tell you the story behind this violence. Back in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Barack Obama sworn into the U.S. Senate with his hand on the Koran. How many people actually believe that? Is there any truth to it at all? That's ahead.
Welcome back to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rick Sanchez. Hillary Clinton and her historic speech this weekend is still the political spotlight. Effective? Too self-congratulatory or perfect for what Barack Obama and the Democratic Party needed? Take a listen to this cut.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today as I suspend my campaign, I congratulate him on the victory he has won and the extraordinary race he has run. I endorse him and throw my full support behind him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Keith Boykin is our veteran Democratic strategist and Leslie Sanchez does the same for the Republican Party.
Keith, let me start off with you. Is this the speech that she needed to give? And did she deliver?
KEITH BOYKIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Absolutely, Rick. This was a phenomenal speech for Hillary Clinton. She really delivered. She did everything she possibly could have done, short of -- you know, I don't know what else there was for her to do -- but she endorsed Barack Obama. She enthusiastically threw her support behind him. She told her supporters to go support him.
And I don't think she left any question that she is on the ticket in terms of being supportive of him in the fall. Don't want to give away too much there.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: That's a small faux pas. (INAUDIBLE) wants to be on the ticket is probably what I think a lot of her folks are thinking. I think this was a pedestrian speech in nature. It was not extraordinary.
I think she hit some talking points that she had to. And it almost seemed like four or five people actually contributed to this speech. It was disjointed in the sense that she talked about more about herself than she did Barack Obama.
SANCHEZ: Really, you thought it was too -- did you think?
(CROSSTALK)
L. SANCHEZ: For one second.
SANCHEZ: Too self congratulatory?
L. SANCHEZ: I will give her credit, she did the endorsement. She talked about the role of feminism and role -- the power women in American politics. It's a very strong effort, which I think are very much her own words. But in the issue of unity at the end, but there was not a smile to be cracked among her or many in that crowd. And I think there's going to be -- in fact, I would say almost 50 percent of her voters right now are doing that mental calculus deciding whether or not he is a flash in the pan and whether Hillary Clinton can (INAUDIBLE) eight months from now.
SANCHEZ: Here's the point. All right? Anybody who looks at this has to understand that what she needed to do was come out there and say to the people who support her and are still not sure about this guy, Obama -- folks this is a great candidate. He is the cat's meow. You have got to believe in him because I do.
Keith, did she do that?
BOYKIN: Absolutely she did that. Definitely. Definitively. You know, a lot of people who I have been talking to who are Obama supporters were really shocked by just how enthusiastic Hillary Clinton was today. And after seeing, you know, the time it took for her to give this speech from Tuesday to Saturday, I understand why she didn't give the speech on Tuesday. I don't think she could have given that speech on Tuesday.
SANCHEZ: But, hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Keith, hold on just a minute. I think Leslie disagrees with you. She doesn't think that she really endorsed him as the cat's meow as I said earlier.
Is that what you are thinking when I heard you laugh?
L. SANCHEZ: Rick, that's exactly right. I mean, why is something so simple, so difficult to deliver. Why does it take so many different people to kind of squeeze the language of the speech together that sounded disjointed? And why does it take 48 minutes late to a speech that takes 15 minutes that's around the block from her house.
I mean, it wasn't exactly, you know, rushing to give the speech. That is just a side bar.
BOYKIN: Oh, Leslie, Leslie, Leslie --
L. SANCHEZ: That's just a side bar. A fun point. But the point is she did the endorsement. She adamantly said she's convince --
SANCHEZ: Painfully or gladly?
L. SANCHEZ: I say in an unextraordinary form.
SANCHEZ: Leslie, Keith, my thanks to both of you. Good as we expected.
Let's continue on a similar theme. Was Hillary Clinton's a failed candidacy or was she failed by a news media infatuated with the newness of a Barack Obama. I want you to listen now to what Bill Clinton says to a reporter from the "Huffington Post."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, he didn't use a single name. He didn't cite any source in all those things he said. It's just slimy. It's part of the national media's attempt to nail Hillary for Obama. It's just the most bias press coverage in modern history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Biased press coverage in modern history. We thought that deserved a response. Matt Felling is going to do that for us. He's a media commentator for among others, national public radio.
Matt, thanks so much for being with us.
MATTHEW FELLING, NPR CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Listen, first on the former president's comment. Let's get that out of the way. Isn't that a kin to me or you going to see our kids' football game and thinking he's the best kid out there and he should be starting all the time? Shouldn't we excuse that as a guy protecting his wife, right?
Yes, exactly. He is definitely on the sideline saying how dare you blow that call, ref! I mean, it was clearly a strike. I mean, he's definitely got his own agenda and he was extremely -- I mean, Bill Clinton was beaten up along the campaign the campaign trail just like his wife was.
And on certain occasions, it was certainly warranted. But you have to take it with a grain of salt. He had a serious dog in this place.
SANCHEZ: So, let's go to a more serious matter then. The accusations leveled, not just by Bill Clinton, by the way -- that the media, you, me and perhaps others have just tilted the scales against Hillary Clinton.
FELLING: Well, I think, first of all, the fault lies with regards to their planning. A state by state campaign and underestimating what Barack Obama could do. I think that's enemy number one. But number two, I think the media definitely was to blame in terms of really being a little bit more caustic with regards to Hillary Clinton than they were with any of the other candidates out there.
SANCHEZ: What do you mean by caustic?
FELLING: Well, I think that, first of all -- I think that there was an element of sexism to it because early on the campaign all that we wanted to talk about in the media was the cackle, her little laugh that, you know, distract a (INAUDIBLE), was cleavage, was, you know, second-guessing every fashion choice she made.
And the fact that, I mean, it is simply human nature that the woman in the room has to be twice as tough as the guys in the room just to keep it on a level playing field. It's unfortunate, but it's true.
SANCHEZ: What about the possibility that many of Barack Obama's supporters raised. And that is this. He was just a better candidate. He planned better. He strategized better. And, you know what, he's more of a words man. I mean, from an oratorical standpoint, he's just better than she is.
FELLING: Oh, absolutely. Let's not ignore the fact that the media have the ultimate school girl crush on Barack. And yes, Hillary nailed him on it when she made the joke about the "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE" skit when they were talking about getting a pillow for Senator Obama.
But at the same time, I think that there was -- and this was a couple of months back, because Hillary was a front-runner. The front- runner never gets, never gets any favorable coverage when it comes to the primary season. I think that the fact that she was out front, allowed all the candidates to come out, like in race car driving you get to draft behind the leader and they take all the lumps.
I think that because she's a front-runner, because she was a woman and because the media and a lot of us -- a lot of Americans out there have Clinton fatigue as well.
And I think we're familiar with her. We were looking for a fresh story and out comes this dazzling speaker to who really captured a lot of people's attention and imagination.
SANCHEZ: Yes, that's smart. And you put it in very interesting terms. I think there's certainly -- I'll tell you what, nobody will disagree with you on the fact that she was, was the front-runner, at one time and in a very big way.
Matt Felling. Hey, man, thanks so much for joining us.
FELLING: Have a very good night.
SANCHEZ: All right. Coming up, a knock-down, drag-out argument about immigration with the unthinkable on this issue. A rare compromise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Obama take the office as senator using a Bible or a Koran? I'm pretty sure it was a Koran.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Is that true? Think about it. He swore on the Koran. We separate truth from fiction. And then we take you back to another time when a candidate campaigned on hope, a different candidate. What might have been if Bobby Kennedy had lived? In two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to the world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez. He will not pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States. He's a product of a Madrasah, uses the Koran to be sworn in. Just some of what we have heard from people when we asked about Barack Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): First up, Obama does not pledge allegiance to the flag.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the President can't -- like put his hand over his heart whenever our national anthem is being sung, I'd say that's pretty sad.
SANCHEZ: Many people believe that because they saw this video doctored on the Internet with the pledge of allegiance transposed. Actually, it was the national anthem playing, where most people don't put their hand over their heart.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This was the Star-Spangled Banner. It was not the pledge of allegiance. Any time that you pledge allegiance, you put your hand over your heart, and I always have and I always will.
SANCHEZ: Number two, not wearing a flag pin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's kind of throws you off, you know. Every other person wearing it and he doesn't. So, I don't know why exactly.
SANCHEZ: Obama did wear one early on, but stopped. Why? He says it was to protest political hypocrisy.
OBAMA: There was a commentary on politicians and folks in Washington, who sometimes are very good about saluting our soldiers when they come home, but then don't follow up with budgets that make sure that they're getting treatment for post-traumatic stress disorder. So, it was a commentary about our politics, not about individuals who wear the flag with pride.
SANCHEZ: Number three, Obama used a Koran, not a Bible, to get sworn in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Obama take the office as senator using a Bible or a Koran? I'm pretty sure it was a Koran.
SANCHEZ: Wrong. That dubious honor goes to Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison, who used a Koran because he's Muslim, which leads us to number four. Barack Obama is a Muslim who attended a Madrasah, a fundamentalist school. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know whether or not Obama ever attended a Islamic fundamentalist school, a Madrasah?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've heard he did. I don't know any of the facts about it, but I've heard he did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand that as a child, he did, overseas, because that's where his parents were at the time or something. But, again, I certainly don't hold that against him. He was a child.
SANCHEZ: CNN investigated the school and found that it wasn't a Madrasah. In fact, it's a public school that, quote, "Doesn't even focus on religion." Finally, Obama is not a Muslim. He is a practicing Christian.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A bit of amazing information to go through. Here's celebrated political columnist. He's out-shaking my head, too. He's the author of "The Uprising." Good book. I've been reading it. David Sirota.
David, are you as surprised as many people are to find out that this many people believe this?
DAVID SIROTA, AUTHOR, "THE UPRISING": Well, no. I mean, this is the spin machine, the conservative spin machine. You know, in an election where Democrats are using all sorts of economic populist themes to really go after conservatives and really have them -- have the Republicans on the ropes, you've got the Republicans cornered and trying to throw out cultural populism.
That's what this is. Nationalism. Questioning Obama's patriotism, questioning his nationality. This is all that they have left, I think, against him.
SANCHEZ: Well, I got to tell you, I got to tell you, David. I can't remember a candidate, at least in my lifetime, that's been hit with these many types of myths or whatever you want to call it.
Let me ask you this question, looking forward here. Can he beat this? Because this is the kind of thing that can, you know, it's kind of like a cancer that can spread. It's a mouth-to-mouth thing, isn't it?
SIROTA: I think he can beat it. And I think actually the campaign that he's built can help him beat this. You know, he's built this huge grassroots campaign through the Internet. Remember, a lot of these rumors started on the Internet.
So, he has got a whole infrastructure, not just the national media platform, but a whole Internet infrastructure, I think, to counter these rumors. And he has countered it aggressively. Will they persist? Sure. Look, the Republican spin machine is strong, but I think -- I think he can counter it. SANCHEZ: But here's the problem. If he stands up and starts addressing these things, he's proliferating them. He's giving them attention.
Listen, I was thinking about this report that I just prepared tonight myself, thinking, you know, if I put this report on the year, am I validating or proliferating this information that I know not to be true? I had discussions with some of our folks here, Standards and Practices, and I think it's a viable story. How does he attack it?
SIROTA: Right. You know, it's the eternal question. Do you legitimate something by addressing it? But I think that what your story shows and what the polls show is that these rumors, these untruths are so out there that he has to.
He has no choice but to confront this cultural populism, these pernicious lies and say what they are, which is lies and which is proof that the Republican smear machine will try to do anything, anything to stop this guy from becoming president.
SANCHEZ: Well, David Sirota, we thank you for taking time and taking us through this. We appreciate it.
SIROTA: Thanks very much.
SANCHEZ: All right. Coming up, it's bound to be a huge political issue in the '08 campaign and it's not going to go away. It is America's immigration debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's deport them and that's it. That's your solution.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: OK. These are real people who somehow are able to do what politicians can't. They argue and argue and then come up with some kind of compromise on immigration. What is it? You're going to see the whole thing play out. So, stay there.
And then, why are these people attacking our First Lady, Laura? Look out!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Well, it has to be an uncomfortable moment for First Lady Laura Bush. Look at her there on the right. Pounding, screaming. This is part of a Haka display. We know, you're wondering what in the world is a Haka, right? That's ahead.
First, though, do you think the immigration issue can be argued without people getting violent about it or screaming at each other? How about if I find six people and try to have them reach some kind of compromise? Sounds crazy in this day and time, doesn't it? This is my "League of First Time Voters." I want you to watch this. This week, I went to the Arizona border. Watch this and ask yourself who you agree with.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (on camera): What is it that some people don't understand that gets a guy like you riled up about the immigration problem?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are a sovereign nation and all sovereign nations in the whole world have their rules in regards to their borders. This isn't a white, brown, black, yellow, green issue. It's strictly a legal issue.
SANCHEZ: John, how do you argue with that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One point that I disagree with Craig (ph) is, the way they're treating these issues as criminals, I don't agree with that.
SANCHEZ: So, you're saying the people who are already here, they should find some kind of pathway for them? Is that what you're saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm saying that the federal government should come in and step up.
SANCHEZ: You're saying it should be one law?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One law.
SANCHEZ: All over the country?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we want our country to be a totally constitutional, lawful nation, we have to do what's right and these people aren't here legally. They must be sent back if we're going to uphold the rule of law and the law is already written.
SANCHEZ: What do you say to those who say, look, essentially I was recruited to come to this country. I was all but invited to come to this country by the corporations who've hired me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The people, I think, that say that need to be put in jail. That's against the law. That's against our sovereign law.
SANCHEZ: Is it happening?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It's happening right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the government needs to take a step forward and put those people in jail. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, Rick. I think they made a good point. And if we're going to arrest those companies, we're going to have to arrest the Internal Revenue for giving the ITN numbers.
And the Internal Revenue say, we don't want you here, Rick. But in case you're going to work here, here's the ITN number, go ahead and use it and pay me taxes. Taxes that you will never see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rick, it all points to one thing. Do we want a solution? If we really do, are we looking for a solution because when we hear Sandy (ph) saying they're here illegal, deport them.
So, I imagine the conclusion you draw is that deport them all. And let's argue the merits as to whether or not it's possible to do it.
SANCHEZ: Is it? Let's go there. Is it possible to deport 12 million people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. One at a time. And as we come across people who are here illegally, the solution is deport them. Now, we have to work in tandem with the federal government, state governments and local governments to enforce those immigration laws that they're allowed to enforce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we're starting with the premise that deportation of everyone that's here illegal is the answer, you know what? We're not going find a solution for this? You guys get stuck there. You never move to finding a solution. All you're doing is stuck on let's deport them and that's it. That's your solution.
SANCHEZ: But let's try and deal with the issue of the people who are here. If they establish a way where the good people -- people who've never broken any laws other than being -- coming to this country, you've got to pay $5,000 or $6,000 out front.
You've got to go through a criminal record. You have to wait two years before you're even considered for citizenship. You have to first return to your country and then come back to this country. If they put all those provisions in, would you guys say, OK, I'm willing to work within a system as long as there are rules to be followed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guess what? That was the amnesty bill last year? If anything, if they are employed by an employer then I would make their employer responsible for that family, OK? And in addition to the two years like you were proposing, I said five years. I wrote a proposal that said five years.
SANCHEZ: So, you are willing to come up with something where there's a negotiable agreement?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not negotiable. You either do it by the rules or else.
SANCHEZ: But we come up with rules -- standard rules that say, you want to stay here? This is what you've got to do. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like we have right now. The laws are on the books.
SANCHEZ: But are there really laws on the books, you think, Craig (ph)? I mean, are there rules that are working?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they're not being enforced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have people waiting. I mean, good people like Rick described.
A lady who raised her children here, who's been a law-abiding citizen, been here 10 years, put it at 20 years, because these people have been here 20 years. You're going to deport those folks? I ask you, guys. Are you going deport them?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going deport them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you're not looking for a solution.
SANCHEZ: Why can't the United States of America, a sovereign country, come up with a plan to make sure it controls who comes in and who comes out of this country?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, we're all in favor of secure borders.
SANCHEZ: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The question is you'll never secure it 100 percent to the satisfaction of 100 percent of Americans. You just can't do that. So, at what point do you move from securing the border to talking about the issue of immigration?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's a moral responsibility that we have to have. And when I hear from this end -- when I hear you guys, I hear hate. And maybe you don't mean it, but that's what I hear. So, there's a lack of communication between us, just even us agreeing to a solution.
SANCHEZ: Can this be worked out?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel like the whole country is going downhill as a result of this lack of enforcement, lack of rule of law. We've just all deteriorated to an amoral society.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm an optimist. I believe yes, it can be worked out.
SANCHEZ: There is a hope! And there's a hope with the good! Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Seems like what America should be doing, huh? Talking to each other and not about each other?
Coming up, legendary political figure struck down before his time. What could have been if Bobby Kennedy had lived?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. We are in the world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez. Forty years after the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy, historians are seeing some similarities between RFK and Barack Obama.
The year was 1968 and the focus was on change. Familiar refrain? Our Campbell Brown got some insights from the experts.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is striking how many similarities there are between 1968 and 2008. You had incredibly unpopular incumbent presidents, incredibly unpopular wars and this desire for change.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, that's right and in 1968, Robert Kennedy delivered it. I think he was profoundly changed after his brother was assassinated and when you study or read it in biographies of Robert Kennedy, you see from 1963 to '68, him feeling for the poor people, the underclass of America.
Here is a candidate of hope, Bobby Kennedy, in early '68 going to places like a Navajo reservation and smoking a peace pipe, breaking the fast with Cesar Chavez and the grape pickers and the migrant workers out in California, going into the coal mines of West Virginia.
The imagery, the photographic imagery we have of Robert Kennedy and the kind of excitement he brought to African-Americans, the underclass and young people is very much like what Barack Obama's been able to accomplish here in '68.
BROWN: Faye, is that what is happening?
FAYE WATTLETON, CTR. FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF WOMEN: I would say so. There are many parallels. They're both about the same age, only four years' difference.
Mr. Obama has achieved sort of that rock star excitement. He has a way of inspiring people to think about a world that's better than the one that we're living in. And his famous quotes about not accepting the way the world is but the way, I think, it ought to be. And I think that's the promise in Mr. Obama's candidacy. He has that kind of electricity about him.
I think also there is perhaps a bit of a contrast in that Mr. Obama and RFK came from very different backgrounds, very different. They came to their positions in a very different way.
And Mr. Obama went out to Chicago, which is sort of the seat of Black Nationalism and community organizing and agitation in those years. Mr. Kennedy went to, as we've said, to the neighborhoods and the reservations to learn more about the disadvantaged.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Coming up, angry protesters facing down. Riot police and it's not at all clear who's winning in this. As the pictures come in, we'll share and the stories behind the stunning pictures. Back in two.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Furious protesters armed with sticks and shovels beating, overwhelming riot police. These are crowds that burned and overturned police buses as well. The riots lasted until dawn.
Protesters are angry at the president for making a beef import deal with the United States. Many South Koreans fear resuming U.S. beef imports could raise the risk of mad cow disease.
And this, First Lady Laura Bush in Afghanistan. Look out! Visiting a New Zealand military base where the troops welcomed her by performing a traditional Haka dance. That's what it is. It's a type of warrior dance. Don't worry, the Secret Service was nervous, but they never had to step in. There you have it.
Thanks you much for being with us. So many of you have been joining us on Sunday nights.
