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Campbell Brown
McCain Under Fire Over Iraq Comments; Obama V.P. Vetter Resigns; Multiple Tornadoes Touch Down Across Midwest
Aired June 11, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
At this very moment, both the McCain and Obama campaigns are trying to come up with ways to dig out from new and embarrassing missteps by both candidates. Our correspondents are on their sources right now to bring you the very latest reporting.
But we want to start with news that is breaking at this moment.
Relentless floodwaters are rising fast in Iowa's capital city, Des Moines.
Our Sean Callebs is going to be following this throughout the night for us. And he is going to keep an eye on it.
Sean, you there?
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I am, Campbell, standing here in the Des Moines River in what yesterday was a park for kids.
Behind me, you can see the swing sets, the jungle gyms. What did it look like yesterday? Take a look at the picture a local resident took and gave me a short while ago: grass. This is an indication of how fast this water is rising. It is coming up quickly.
Now, here in this area, it is a pretty good snapshot of this community. If you look, the only thing saving this neighborhood, this earthen dam that is right here. Will it hold? Will it protect this community?
Campbell, stick with us. We will come back in just a little bit and give you an update on what the situation is like out here -- Campbell.
BROWN: OK, Sean, I know you are going to be keeping an eye on that for us. And we're going to check back with you shortly as well.
Well, while people in the Midwest worry, how high will the water go, the rest of us are worrying, how high will gas prices go? And the news there is even worse. We broke another record today, folks. The national average hit $4.05 a gallon. That's up a penny from yesterday, the fourth straight record price in four days.
Now, here's a little bit of perspective. We checked. Now, you remember $3-a-gallon gas? Well, it's been 114 days and 20 hours since the average price of gas was that low. That's right. Gas has climbed more than a buck a gallon since February.
Back then, President Bush acted surprised at the prospect of $4- a-gallon gas. You remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: What's your advice to the average American who is hurting now facing the prospect of $4-a-gallon gasoline? A lot of people facing...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Wait a minute. What did you just say? You are predicting $4-a-gallon gasoline?
QUESTION: A number of analysts are predicting $4-a-gallon gasoline this spring, when they reformulate.
BUSH: That's interesting. I hadn't heard that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, that was only four months ago. And there is no end in site.
Here at the ELECTION CENTER, we want to know why a lot of politicians are storming around about this, but nothing seems to be happening. Today, crude oil closed up more than $5 a barrel, the third biggest one-day jump on record.
The Energy Department warns that oil will likely remain above the $100-a-barrel mark and gas above the $4-a-gallon mark through next year.
Well, Americans smell a rat. According to our new CNN/Opinion Research poll, 62 percent of Americans think that the spike in gas prices is due to somebody's unethical behavior. Only 32 percent blame supply and demand.
So, given all of that, you would think that our elected officials would be falling all over themselves to fix the problem, right? Uh- uh. They are very busy right now playing the blame game.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I think that the American public has every reason to be suspicious. Manipulation, speculation, something is driving up these markets.
BROWN (voice-over): Something, but what? And why do we have to just sit back and take it? Well, Congressman Ed Markey called a hearing today to find out. The experts said there's no conspiracy behind high gas prices. They say it is simple. Blame supply and demand.
ADAM SIEMINSKI, CHIEF ECONOMIC, DEUTSCHE BANK: As close as I can come to giving a guarantee, I believe that you will see oil prices going back down if we can get supplies growing and demand slowing down.
BROWN: OK, fine. But Republicans blame the Democrats for not increasing the supply.
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: And I think most Americans would be surprised to know exactly how much energy is available right here in our own country. And I'm sure they would also be surprised to learn how diligently my distinguished colleagues are fighting any expansion of America's capacity to explore for and produce oil and gas.
BROWN: He's complaining Democrats block GOP efforts to drill more offshore sites and in a protected area of Alaska known as ANWR. As for Democrats, well, guess what? They blamed Republicans.
MARKEY: I think as long as those two oil men, George Bush and Dick Cheney, are in the White House, that there's no reason to believe that the price of oil isn't going to head towards $5 a gallon.
BROWN: The Dems also blame the GOP for blocking alternative energy initiatives. But as for one of those two oil men, Dick Cheney is, what a stunner, also playing the blame game.
RICHARD B. CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congress has said no to drilling in ANWR, no to drilling off the East Coast, no to drilling off the West Coast, no to drilling off Florida. Twenty, 40, or 50 years from now, I'm pretty sure this country will have energy sources that are more diverse and more environmentally sound than many of us can even imagine today. In the here and now, we are an economy that runs on petroleum.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So when will all the finger-pointing end? And when will somebody do something about the price of gas?
Senior business correspondent Ali Velshi is here to give us some options.
And, Ali, we are in a crisis right now, aren't we?
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
BROWN: How did this happen?
VELSHI: Well, we absolutely are in a crisis. And the price of gas has got to do with the price of oil. And somebody will do something when we finally face the music.
Take a look at how this works around the world. Brazil, India, Russia, China, these are fast growing nations. They're growing much faster than the United States. They have got more cars on their roads. Their population growth is faster. They have got more food that they are growing. And that needs fuel for the feed and for the farm equipment. Take a look at the United States now, 5 percent of the world's population, even less than that, but 20 percent of the world's oil consumption just to fuel our vehicles. Just the gas that we consume every day is more than 10 percent of the world's consumption of oil. So, this is absolutely a crisis because there's no other country on that map for which oil is as valuable a commodity.
America survives on oil and we really, really do have to break our dependence on it.
BROWN: And if this is our fault, essentially to deal with this problem, we have got to declare war here on oil.
VELSHI: Yes. And what we have to do is not worry so much about the regulation, about charging extra taxes to oil companies. Let's deal with it on the demand side. Let's find other ways to fuel our lives.
And that means other ways to fuel our cars by providing incentives for people to buy lower -- more fuel-efficient vehicles or alternative-fuel vehicles. And when I say incentives, I mean the money that goes into that car comes off your taxes, incentives for people to change the way they power their homes from gas to either natural gas or solar or wind or nuclear, whatever it takes to do that.
Businesses and people have to be given some financial incentive to change. Then we will pull off of the demand for oil and we will change the way we live.
BROWN: So, in theory, if Congress wasn't doing this back and forth threat doing, they would be coming up and working with -- coming up with these incentives and working on tax breaks or whatever to make this a reality.
VELSHI: Yes.
BROWN: But look at this clock that we have here, as you see, 115 days and counting since gas was at an average of $3 a gallon, consistently at $3 a gallon. And nothing has been done.
VELSHI: Yes.
These are long-term problems. We have got to address them as long-term problems. It's not going to bring the price of gas down in the next month or the next six months, but this is a long-term problem. We have got to change the way we behave. If we can do that, it won't necessarily bring the price of gas or oil down, but we will depend on it less. We will use less of it and we will spend less on it.
BROWN: The utopia is out there, isn't it?
VELSHI: It's possible. We can reach it.
BROWN: All right.
Ali Velshi for us tonight -- Ali, thanks.
So, will gas ever go back down? We want to get past the finger- pointing and get you the facts. Next in the ELECTION CENTER, a panel of experts who actually get it.
Plus, the presidential campaign -- Barack Obama's team regroups after a big embarrassment tonight. We are working the phones on it. And we're going to have the very latest when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gas prices are way out of control, way out of control. They need to do something about it real quick, because this is ridiculous. At least get it under $4.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband and I, we sacrifice on certain things just to sometimes have money for gas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is completely unaffordable. To fill up a car is completely unaffordable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: People out there mad as hell right now. And what is especially maddening is we have all actually lived through this before. For years we have heard industry leaders and politicians score points on this issue, but nothing happens.
So, let's right now ask our own panel of experts from the left, the right, down the middle, all so you can make up your own mind.
In Miami, we have Tyson Slocum, who is the director of the energy program for Public Citizen, a national consumer advocacy group, in Washington with us, Pat Toomey, former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania and now president of the Club for Growth, which we should say lobbies for pro-business economic policies. And here in the studio with me is Poppy Harlow, who reports on energy prices for CNNMoney.com
Pat, I want to start with you.
And what I was just talking about a moment ago with our own Ali Velshi is that the government has to make it easier with incentives for Americans to be fuel-efficient. And it's just not doing that. Why not? What's happening?
PAT TOOMEY, PRESIDENT, CLUB FOR GROWTH: Well, I completely disagree with the premise.
What the government is doing, which is just -- borders on the criminal to me, is it artificially restricts our supply. We more petroleum to have petroleum at lower costs. And yet we have law that forbid us from drilling offshore, drilling off the coast of Florida. We can't drill in ANWR, where we know there's large supply. And maybe worst of all is the truly vast quantities of oil in the oil shales of Colorado and Utah.
The Congress has passed a law forbidding the leasing of that land, which would -- we have got four times as much oil in oil shale as Saudi Arabia does. And existing oil companies believe that they can extract it at competitive prices now, in fact at prices much lower than oil is now. The limitation on supply is primarily the blame of our federal government.
BROWN: All right, Tyson, Pat says there's plenty available. We have got just to drill for it. What's wrong with that?
TYSON SLOCUM, ENERGY DIRECTOR, PUBLIC CITIZEN: There was no facts in there whatsoever.
In 2008, the United States is the third biggest crude oil producer on the planet. Even if we produced as much oil as Saudi Arabia did every day, we would still be importing half of our oil. The world is awash in crude oil surplus. We have over a billion barrels of crude oil sitting here in the United States ready to be released into the market.
And consumers have been doing their part. We're using less gasoline than we were a year ago. Demand is down 1 percent. But yet the market has driven prices up. I have seen market prices become detached from the supply/demand fundamentals.
(CROSSTALK)
SLOCUM: What we absolutely need to do -- families are struggling to get by under these high energy prices, and the government has to provide more incentives to folks to help them afford to drive more fuel-efficient cars.
BROWN: Right.
VELSHI: Because right now, if folks go to the car dealer, they can't afford to buy a super fuel-efficient hybrid vehicle.
BROWN: OK. Hold on, guys.
Poppy, give us a reality check. They are at diametrically opposed positions here.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, of course.
And they both have good points. But the truth is, Campbell, I think you could really price Americans out of anything. What could happen is down the road, $4-a-gallon gas is the good old days. What we need to talk about, folks, is that we are not alone in the world.
In the U.K., they are paying way more than $8 a gallon. In other parts of the world, they are paying even more than that. What Pat was just talking about is something called the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, where we have...
TOOMEY: No. HARLOW: That is what -- we are talking about that in terms of our supply here in the United States.
If you pull from that -- we use 20 million barrels a day here in America of oil. So, if you pull from that 700 million, you are getting about 35 days, just a month, over, in terms of oil. The reality is price Americans out of it, and they will change how they are acting right now.
TOOMEY: Americans are already shifting.
And, frankly, it is the price mechanism that drives them to do that. There's a big falloff in the sales of SUVs and trucks and there's an increase in demand for hybrids and more fuel-efficient vehicles. That's going to happen naturally.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Hold on, guys.
Pat, let me ask you this.
TOOMEY: Yes.
BROWN: Because oil companies are showing double-digit profits right now. And get this. In the first four months of this year, they gave $14 million to politicians, and most of them Republicans. Just yesterday, you have got Senate Republicans blocking attacks on their profits. And they get to keep their breaks. I know you are a Republican, a former congressman. Is it quid pro quo or not?
(CROSSTALK)
TOOMEY: Yes, let me respond.
They are paying over 40 percent of their profits in taxes now.
SLOCUM: Oh, that's false.
TOOMEY: There are lots of companies and industries that make more money.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOMEY: Microsoft is more profitable. Pfizer is more profitable. Coke is more profitable.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOMEY: So, what do we want to do? If you make too much money, if you're successful, we are going to arbitrarily assign a new tax, confiscate that? That's just going to discourage any further exploration. It's going to discourage capital from accumulating and being investigated in the United States.
(CROSSTALK) BROWN: Let me let Tyson respond. Tyson, go ahead.
SLOCUM: Oil companies are the most profitable sector in the U.S. percent. They are absolutely not hurting for money. The fact is that they...
TOOMEY: Nobody said they are hurting for money.
SLOCUM: ... get $9 billion a year in tax breaks and subsidies from the American taxpayer. That's what's criminal.
We have no business subsidizing a mature, profitable industry like oil. We need to end the subsidies, which is what the Democrats tried to do. And instead of giving up money...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: We are almost out of time. But, Poppy, you get the last word.
HARLOW: Folks, subsidies aside, it is very likely that in your 401(k), in a mutual fund you might own, it probably has an energy, an oil company in it. Think of ExxonMobil, most profitable company in the world that is not government-backed. So, when they are making money, you are likely making money as well, something to keep in mind there before dumping all over them.
BROWN: OK. We have got to end it there, but a good discussion to Tyson, to Pat, to Poppy. Thank, you all.
Appreciate it, guys.
TOOMEY: Thanks for having me.
SLOCUM: Thanks a lot.
BROWN: In a moment: the campaigns -- what John McCain said today and what Barack Obama did. Both campaigns have explaining to do tonight.
Plus, Michael Ware in Baghdad, he has got a CNN exclusive: new secrets about al Qaeda.
That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight, Democrats are jumping all over something John McCain said on NBC's "Today Show" this morning.
And here it is. Listen closely. It is very quick.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TODAY SHOW")
MATT LAUER, CO-HOST, "THE TODAY SHOW": Do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq? SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, but that's not too important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Now, we are going to play that again in a second, but that remark set off a Democratic firestorm today. Senator John Kerry, Senator Joe Biden, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi blasted McCain for saying it is -- quote -- "not too important" when U.S. troops come home from Iraq.
But wait. Tonight, the McCain camp, as well as Senator Joe Lieberman, accuse the Democrats of distorting what McCain said. So, you can decide what to make of it. I want you to hear a longer take from McCain's appearance. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TODAY SHOW")
LAUER: Do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq?
MCCAIN: No, but that's not too important. What's important is the casualties in Iraq. Americans are in South Korea. Americans are in Japan. American troops are in Germany. That's all fine.
American casualties and the ability to withdraw.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, how will the troops in Iraq feel about McCain's comment?
Who better to ask than our very own Michael Ware, who is in Baghdad for us tonight?
Michael, there must have been some reaction.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we haven't heard directly from the troops. Obviously, they are very professional. They keep these things close to their chest.
But if you are amongst them, you certainly get the feel. This comment would have very much felt like a wet blanket to them. These guys are indeed volunteers and a professional army. And they will do their job until they are told to stop. But the frustration, particularly amongst these guys I see who are here for the third time, are seeing relatively little progress, certainly where it counts, is starting to grind them down.
It's so evident. Morale is not what it once was. So, a comment like that, as throwaway as it might be, isn't going to be welcome. Yet, at the same time, a senior U.S. official in the mission here just today told me that, if you want to pull out, that's fine, but you need to think about the consequences of America not being here -- Campbell.
BROWN: Michael, I want to move on, because, for weeks, you and your team in Baghdad have been sifting through a mother lode of secret information about al Qaeda in Iraq.
It is almost hard to believe. We are talking about application forms to join al Qaeda, pay stubs, strategy plans, hit lists, and thousands of hours of video, all of it detailing al Qaeda's secret operations, all of it handed over to Michael. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WARE (voice-over): Al Qaeda gunmen brought this man here to die. Staged for maximum impact, he's to be executed on this busy market street. We don't know why. The al Qaeda members who recorded this tape offer no explanation.
But the anticipation is agonizing, Leading to a moment that we cannot show you, a punishment for betraying al Qaeda or for breaking their strict version of Islamic law?
Either way, it was public executions like this that would help lead to the unraveling of al Qaeda in Iraq. And al Qaeda knew it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And, Michael, it is brutal, but give us your take. What insight to these documents, do these videos give us about the inner workings of al Qaeda in Iraq?
WARE: Look, Campbell, this is the largest collection of al Qaeda in Iraq materials to ever come into civilian hands.
And what they give you is a window into this organization that only members of al Qaeda itself or a few people in the Western Intelligence Committee would have ever had.
What we see is an al Qaeda that is far more sophisticated, far more complex, far better organized, and far more deeply penetrated into the Iraqi government and to some degree even into U.S. bases than most could have ever imagined.
In talking to intelligence officials here on the ground, though al Qaeda now is under stress more than ever before, this smaller organization is -- today is operating in just the same way -- Campbell.
BROWN: Michael Ware for us from Baghdad tonight -- Michael, as always, thanks.
And Michael has much more on this story. And he's going to have it all tonight on "A.C. 360" at 10:00 Eastern time.
Up ahead, more breaking news. We are going back to Iowa, where floodwaters are still rising at an alarming rate tonight.
But, first, Barack Obama has to do another embarrassing 180. One of the men he picked for his vice presidential search team came under some heavy pressure and stepped aside. Or was he pushed? When we come back. And then later, the campaign also against Michelle Obama, Republicans looking for ways to discredit her to use against him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Breaking news tonight, one of Barack Obama's top advisers has quit. Well, he says he quit, but Jim Johnson's exit has left Obama open to charges of hypocrisy.
And in this tight race, there is not a room for error. The CNN National Poll of Polls shows Obama leading John McCain by five points. Now, the Obama and McCain campaigns are taking potshots at each other over today's news.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux is following the Obama campaign tonight.
Suzanne, this story is still breaking, I know, as we speak. The campaigns are firing off statements and counterstatements. Explain for us, why is Jim Johnson, who no one outside Washington really ever heard of, causing so much problems -- so much trouble for Obama?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you talk to the McCain folks tonight, and they are clearly trying to take advantage of this.
You also talk to Obama aides as well. Both of them are trying to portray their candidate as the real reformist here, the one who is going to be the agent of change. And that's because that is what voters say they want.
Now, Johnson quickly became a political liability to Obama, who has really anchored his campaign on changing Washington and going after these subprime lenders. Well, over the last 48 hours, there's been a lot of criticism from John McCain's camp that Obama was being a hypocrite for seeking Johnson as an adviser.
Now, the controversy is really over Johnson's perceived conflict of interests. Johnson, who was once chairman of the mortgage Fannie Mae, received millions of dollars in loans from Countrywide Financial Corporation, with the help of its CEO.
Now, Countrywide is now under a federal investigation for its alleged role in the subprime mortgage crisis. Now, there's no evidence of anything illegal happening in these transactions, Campbell, but what you see is all of this playing out politically. Is it going to be a real liability for the Obama campaign? That's what McCain folks are saying tonight.
That's what they are hoping. The Obama folks say, look at them here. They have got a whole bunch of lobbyists that they too had to get rid of as well because they say it is inconsistent with this message of reform.
BROWN: And, Suzanne, only yesterday, Obama defended Johnson. And let's listen for a minute to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not betting my V.P. search committee for their mortgages. So, you are going to have to direct -- well, it becomes sort of a -- I mean, this is a game that can be played. Everybody who is tangentially related to our campaign, I think, is going to have a whole host of relationships.
I would have to hire the vetter to vet the vetters. I mean, at some point, we have just asked people to do their assignments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: OK, that was his stance before.
Suzanne, what's happened in the last 24 hours to change things?
MALVEAUX: Well, obviously, the McCain camp, you talked to those folks, they realize, when they heard Obama saying the vetters vetting the vetter, they realized, this is quite confusing. This is an opening here that we can take advantage of.
The Obama camp said, they look at this and they said, oh, my goodness. This is not going away, just the opposite. This was gaining traction. So, aides to Obama tell me that the controversy over Johnson really turned into a distraction right when they were unveiling Obama's economic plan.
So, while accepting his resignation could mean taking a hit in the short term, in the long term, they believe that voters are going to turn to the things that matter to them, to focus on those kinds of issues. Aides also say that one of the lessons that they learned from these previous controversies is, you have got to assess the damage, respond immediately, and that is why Johnson's resignation was accepted today.
BROWN: All right.
Suzanne Malveaux for us tonight.
Suzanne, as always, thanks.
The question now: Is the Obama camp guilty of hypocrisy? And will this controversy actually damage his campaign?
Well, here to talk about that are TV and radio talk show hosts Joe Pagliarulo, and CNN political analyst Roland Martin.
And Roland, I got to ask you, has Obama boxed himself into a corner? I mean, he makes these lofty speeches about ethics and then surrounds himself in the same way that John McCain does frankly with Washington insiders. You got Republicans saying it's max of hypocrisy. Has he set this impossible standard for himself?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, both of them have. The problem with this whole campaign now, is we have two holier than thou candidates, OK, who say, we are above reproach. We don't want to take money from lobbyists. We are different. That's what it is.
And to be honest, Campbell, I don't think anybody in real America really cares about this story. It's really those of us who are in politics in Washington, D.C., but both of these candidates, Obama and McCain, are going to come to this over and over and over again, by setting a ridiculous standard that frankly nobody is going to be able to meet.
BROWN: Do you agree with that, Joe?
JOE PAGLIARULO, TV/RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, no. First of all, Roland, why are you in Florida or wherever you are? Come on, man. Bring it to the set. What's going on?
This guy, Jim Johnson, people don't generally care about him but they do care about Barack Obama who continually is running away from people as soon as somebody yells "boo." I mean what's the deal? This guy stood behind vetting the vetters. I'm not going to vet. I've never heard the word "vet" used so many times ever in my life.
But he ran away from not wearing the flag pin, popped it on. He ran away from his wife whose wife suddenly isn't out there in the forefront anymore because people complained about that. Somebody, one person, two people, 10 people complained about Jim Johnson, and he's running away from this guy now. Either support -- be somebody that we can respect, that you support the people that you support, and be somebody who fundamentally is making good decisions that they can stand behind.
MARTIN: But, Joe, let's be honest though. McCain has had a number of people who are lobbyists who he is no longer associated with his campaign. That's exactly what I'm saying.
Look, anybody with some common sense knows you're not going to be able to run for national office and not have people who are involved in politics. It's not going to happen. And so, we might as well go ahead and take today's show and replay it about three weeks from now with somebody associated with McCain, is doing something that's different from the candidate. That's what you have here.
BROWN: You know what?
MARTIN: You're going to have this kind of alliances regardless of who the candidate is.
BROWN: Roland, you are sounding so cynical tonight. But you know what, Joe, he has a fair point. I mean, McCain has surrounded himself by lobbyists. His hands are not exactly clean, either.
PAGLIARULO: You know that they're not clean. That's not the problem here. The problem is that McCain is standing behind these people that are on his campaign. He's not running away from them.
Barack Obama is showing --
BROWN: Not all of them. That's not true. MARTIN: You know, Joe, he got rid of some of them, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: Right. He got rid of some of them. There are a lot of those who are still there, Roland and Campbell.
BROWN: So the ones that he really needs stuck around?
PAGLIARULO: Well, listen --
BROWN: And he's taking a principled stand on the other one? Come on.
PAGLIARULO: Barack Obama had a chance to build a campaign -- a VP commission, a committee of three people. One of the three, 33 percent, he was afraid to stand behind today after 24 hours ago. You even said it yourself.
MARTIN: Oh, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: He was afraid to stand behind this guy. He got scared. He is scared that somehow he's going to be tarnished and the polish is going to come off, Roland. This guy is squeaky, clean and shiny, and he's afraid that luster is going to come off and people will actually see what he stands for.
BROWN: But Joe, you know what -- Roland, I got to give him his point here. I mean, is Obama backing down too easily?
MARTIN: No. Because look, here's what you have here, OK. If you are running for president and your focus is on the economy, and all the people want to talk about is a guy who got a $1.7 million loan, what's more important?
PAGLIARULO: Stand behind him.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: Campbell --
PAGLIARULO: Stand behind your pastor.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, no, Joe. This is why I say --
PAGLIARULO: Stand behind your church. Stand behind the black community.
MARTIN: This is why I say --
PAGLIARULO: Stand behind your wife, your white mother. Come on, this guy is running away from everybody, Roland. Come on, don't give me that.
MARTIN: No, Joe -- Joe, Joe, this is why I say in real America, OK, where I am, Joe, where you're not, this is what people care about. They don't care about Jim Johnson. They don't care about some lobbyist running John McCain's campaign.
PAGLIAURULO: Then why run away from him?
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, no, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: Why back down, Roland?
MARTIN: Joe, they want to know -- they want to know very simply, what is John McCain, what is Barack Obama going to do to fix the problems we talked about?
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: I agree. Hey, Roland, I agree with you. But answer that question. I mean, if that is the case, if you're right about this, then why make him quit? Why back away from him?
MARTIN: Because we all -- because we're in this business. We know what the word destruction is. We know that. We know the game. We are a part of it.
We would sit here and run it, why is Jim Johnson staying? What does it mean? He got a loan, so you can't have it both ways, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: I can't trust Barack Obama because he says one thing one day and something different the next day, Roland.
MARTIN: Oh, Joe.
PAGLIARULO: You can't trust the guy's decision making and you know it.
MARTIN: Joe, it's a game and you know it.
PAGLIARULO: It's a game that he should not have backed down, too.
BROWN: All right, guys.
MARTIN: Your side and the Democratic side.
PAGLIARULO: All right.
BROWN: Cool it down because we're out of time. Joe and Roland, I love hearing from you. Thanks, guys, appreciate it.
MARTIN: It's from real America.
PAGLIARULO: Oh, whatever.
BROWN: Coming up next, we've got some breaking news we do have to tell you about here.
There's a tornado on the ground in Lincoln, Nebraska. Chad Myers is in the CNN Weather Center. We're going to go to him right after this.
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BROWN: We have some breaking news to tell you about right now. We are getting reports of multiple tornadoes in eastern Nebraska, including a tornado on the ground in Lincoln, the state capital. We want to go right now to our meteorologist Chad Myers who is in the CNN Severe Weather Center.
And Chad, what do you know?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Campbell, we don't know how big it is. We don't know how much damage it has done, but it has now moved out of Lincoln itself just the past couple of minutes, up for the town of Waverly, which is just northeast of Lincoln.
That's the way the storms are going tonight, from the southwest to the northeast. And this is going to be a night to remember. I already had three tornadoes on the ground just in the past five minutes. Sleepy Eye, Minnesota, almost Kansas. We also have damage in Lincoln and a tornado on the ground in Springfield, Minnesota.
This is going to be a night where you see a storm coming your way, you're going to have to take cover. There was a tornado warning for Omaha itself, near Chalco. We had damage there.
Right now, we don't know whether that storm is on the ground for Omaha or not, but I need you to be taking cover in the lowest level of your house. If you see a storm coming your way tonight, most of them, tonight, are rotating, which means any of them could put down a tornado at any time. Back to you.
BROWN: Wow, Chad, a lot to keep an eye on tonight. We will check back with you when there are further developments. OK.
MYERS: All right.
BROWN: Coming up next, the latest political soap opera. Well, it has everything. A married politician, the other woman, and a wife who has refused to move out of the house. In this case, the house is the Nevada governor's mansion. We got all the juicy details when we come back.
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BROWN: Let's turn now to a divorce drama with a high profile political couple smacked in the middle of it. She says he is cheating, he denies it. They're also fighting over their 23-room mansion, and this is just part of the break up battle of the governor of Nevada and his first lady.
CNN's Ted Rowlands is in Carson City, Nevada, excuse me, following this real-life dispute that sounds like a soap opera.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Campbell, we are at the epicenter of all of this at the governor's mansion. The governor's wife refuses to leave the mansion. For a while, he did leave, but tonight he is back here.
They're in separate areas of the compound here. People across the state have been watching this soap opera unfold, and the media has been relentless covering every juicy detail.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor Jim Gibbons facing some uncomfortable questions tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS (voice-over): Governor Jim Gibbons filed for divorce last month. He claimed he and his wife of 22 years are "incompatible." But in court documents his wife, Dawn Gibbons, has another explanation for their problems. She blames another woman, a long-time friend, the recently estranged wife of a doctor that the Gibbons have known for years.
The governor denies the romance, but this morning's front page in the "Reno Gazette-Journal" says he text messaged the other woman more than 850 times in a six-week period last year, and 160 times in just one day.
ANJEANETTE DAMON, "RENO GAZETTE-JOURNAL": The governor says that she's been a very close friend of his for 15 years. That there's nothing wrong with him going out to dinner with her, going to, you know, he went to her high school daughter's high school play. But the text messaging was just friendly every day conversation back and forth.
ROWLANDS: Gibbons has had other problems during his relatively short 18 months in the governor's mansion. Just before he was elected, a Las Vegas cocktail waitress accused him of assault. No charges were filed. His wife Dawn stood at his side while he denied any wrongdoing.
GOVERNOR JIM GIBBONS (R), NEVADA: I'm a happily married man. I'm a father, a grandfather. My reputation means everything to me.
ROWLANDS: And then his reputation took yet another direct hit.
ERIK HERZIK, PROFESSOR, UNIV. OF NEVADA-RENO: I don't think the governor is going to be able to rebound from this. It's not this single incident.
ROWLANDS: Reports surfaced that he's the subject of an investigation in connection with an alleged government contract bribery scandal stemming from his days in Washington. He's denied any wrongdoing in that incident.
Politically, Gibbons is relatively safe. He's not up for re- election for another two years in 2010, but some local political experts say the governor's problems are so severe he could drag down other Republicans in November, that includes John McCain.
And for John McCain, it's a real problem. Nevada is expected to be close. In fact, it appears McCain may have avoided standing side by side with the governor.
DAMON: Senator McCain was in Reno two weeks ago. He had both a public event and a fundraiser. The governor was at the private fundraiser but he didn't show up at the public event.
HERZIK: His luck would have to change 180 degrees. And so far, this governor has had no luck in Nevada. In Nevada, and when you don't have luck in Nevada, you're bust.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: All right. Ted Rowlands for us tonight.
Go ahead, Ted.
ROWLANDS: Yes, late today --
Late today, Campbell, the governor apologized for using a state- owned cell phone to make those text messages. He also says he is no longer seeing the other woman because it's just been too hard on her. And they've called a bit of a truce inside the mansion here.
Both parties agreed not to talk about the case. That's the reason they gave for us when we requested an interview with the governor. But far from over, the saga drags on here in Nevada.
BROWN: All right. Ted Rowlands for us tonight. Ted, sorry about the confusion. Thanks for that.
We do have some breaking news. And we do want to get or we are getting rather reports of multiple tornadoes in eastern Nebraska, including a tornado on the ground in Lincoln. That's the state capital. And we do want to go back now to Chad Myers in the CNN Severe Weather Center for the very latest -- Chad.
MYERS: Campbell, we still know about this tornado in Lincoln. It has now moved to Waverly and just east of Greenwood, Nebraska. This is going to be a long track, probably a fairly large cell. We don't have any reports of damage yet, but I know it's happening. I know it's happening out there somewhere. It's just very sketchy coming into our newsroom right now.
This is from KETV, our affiliate in Omaha, Nebraska. And that storm tornadoes for a while near Chalco. You can see the lightning down there right above the word "breaking news."
I've got at least -- I'm going to count them right now -- I have 14, 14 tornado warnings going on right now with at least five of these being confirmed tornadoes on the ground all the way from Kansas through Omaha right on up into Minnesota, and this is a night that's going to keep going for a while. We'll be into Minnesota and Iowa. And remember, the places in Iowa don't need a bit of rain, and they could be getting four to five inches of rain tonight and that could make flooding even worse. We already know how bad that story is around Des Moines. We'll keep you advised if anything else breaks here in the newsroom -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. A lot going on tonight, Chad. We'll check back in with you in a bit. Thanks very much.
Tonight the Obama campaign is gearing up for a fight that's pretty rare in U.S. presidential races. Is it fair to turn a candidate's wife into a political target? We've got that story coming up.
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BROWN: We have some breaking news to tell you about. Right now, you are looking at a live picture. This is from KETV, our affiliate in Omaha, Nebraska.
Tornadoes have hit the ground in that area, several tornadoes. We have no reports yet of injuries, but we are still waiting for that information to come in. We are going to keep a very close eye on this for you tonight.
But we also want to go now to Iowa, where our own Sean Callebs is keeping an eye on the terrible flooding that's been happening there. Sean, what can you tell us?
CALLEBS: Well, I'm standing in the Des Moines River. You could see now, this is actually a park. You can see back there some swings, a ball field for the kids.
Actually, the Des Moines River usually runs in that break between the two trees out there, but it jumped its banks and basically all this water came here in the last 24 hours. Now, what authorities are trying to do to keep it from spilling over in the neighborhoods, over the weekend in one day, 24 hours, they put up this levee to keep the water out.
Now in 1993, this area flooded, simply covering this entire area. Now, will this hold? Well, it's hard to say but we can tell you this, this river is not expected to crest until Saturday, Campbell. That means it could climb well up to the top of this levee, jumping over, if it even holds.
If you look, you can see water seeping through the other side. And this is basically just a little slice of what life is like over the entire Midwest, down to the Des Moines River, the Raccoon River here. In this area of Iowa, flooding a big problem and they're just going to have to keep their fingers crossed.
But more rain is in the forecast tonight and tomorrow here, and even worse for the residents, Campbell, up north, meaning the floodwaters are going to be coming down here.
BROWN: All right. Sean, thanks. Appreciate that. I know you'll keep watching that.
We want to go back now to Chad Myers who has the latest on the tornadoes -- Chad.
MYERS: Campbell, just in now here from Little Sioux, Iowa. Law enforcement there reports a tornado hit a Boy Scout ranch with 30 to 40 injuries and actually four fatalities reported by the law enforcement there. That's Harrison County or Monona County, Iowa, right there kind of on the line, six miles north of Little Sioux.
We're working on it. I'm trying to get to Google Earth or a Microsoft Virtual Earth to see where that Boy Scout Ranch is, but we'll keep you advised on what goes on for the rest of the night. Now, it's a deadly situation.
BROWN: A really troubling situation. OK. We're going to keep an eye on this. We'll be back with the very latest details coming up shortly. Stay with us.
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BROWN: We have some breaking news now. A terrible night in the Midwest. You are looking at a live picture from our affiliate in Omaha, Nebraska, KETV.
Tornadoes have hit the ground now. Reports of at least six tornadoes on the ground, and we are getting a report that a Boy Scout ranch, this was in Iowa, was hit by a tornado. There are a number of injuries as well as some fatalities there.
And we want to go now to Chad Myers for the very latest on all of this.
Chad, what are you hearing?
MYERS: Campbell, this is changing so quickly. Basically, what I need you to know, if you're in Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska or Kansas, and you see a tornado or storm coming your way, you need to act like that is a tornadic storm because there are so many of them.
I'm counting them now, 17, 13 tornado warnings right now. About five of them are officially on the ground. A storm moving back into Lincoln, one moving into Ashland, another in Omaha. All these pink boxes are all tornado warnings. They go from Kansas through Nebraska, up towards Storm Lake, Iowa, and Lake Park, and also back into places up into Minnesota, southern Minnesota.
I'm going to go ahead and read some of these latest reports that are just coming in, because we are getting these storm spotters confirming these tornadoes.
One now, and this is Pottawattamie County, and this tornado is located near Platte River State Park near Louisville. Now, this is in Omaha, the Omaha area, out of the Pottawattamie County area. Cass and Douglas County, Sarpy County, you're still under that tornado warning. So storm spotters near that Louisville, Platte River State Park, I've been there many, many, many, times, growing up in Miller, Nebraska. In fact, Miller, they had a tornado just about four days ago.
This is going to be kind of coming up right up there into that Ralston/Miller corridor because it is moving to the north and to the northeast at about 40 miles per hour.
And back to our camera there, you can see the KETV storm. That would have been the storm that was creating that on-the-ground confirmed tornado there near the town of Louisville. It looks like Louisville or Louisville, but we know it's pronounced Louisville down there.
And so, in one storm after another, this one coming out near Thayer, Nebraska. The Doppler indicated a severe thunderstorm possible of a tornado near Gilead, and that's moving to the east at about 51 miles per hour that's just north of Concordia.
This is just going to be one of those nights where it's going to be impossible almost to keep up with every tornado warning, but you need to keep up with it. And if you have a NOAA weather radio, now is the time to get it on and keep it on all night long. These storms are going to be moving to the east -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right, Chad. We're going to keep tracking this. And as we mentioned earlier, this terrible news about reports of a tornado has hit this Boy Scout camp or Boy Scout ranch, rather, with reports of as many as 30 injuries as well as a number of fatalities. We're going to have more breaking news coming up in just a minute.
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BROWN: We have breaking news to tell you about tonight. We've been following this horrible weather that's taking place in the Midwest right now.
At least five tornadoes on the ground. We've got 15 warnings, tornado warnings, in Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, and also in Minnesota. And all of that weather that we have been reporting on is heading toward Des Moines, Iowa, where our very own Sean Callebs is right now, where they have been dealing with this horrible flooding problem. So Sean, tell us what's going on there?
CALLEBS: Yes, without pleasure, don't be fooled by these blue skies. I'm walking down the middle of Sailor Street here, in a suburban Des Moines area. The water you're looking at here from the Des Moines River all came up within the past 24 hours.
The bad news for the folks here, this river is not expected to crest until perhaps Saturday. So that means it's going to keep rising. It is expected to start pouring here, soon. Rain throughout the night into tomorrow. You know what that means, Campbell.
All the flood water in this area is just going to get higher and higher threatening more of this area. They're simply punished back in 1993, so it's a recurring nightmare for the people here in this area -- Campbell.
BROWN: All right. Sean Callebs for us. And we very want to -- very quickly want to go check back in once more with Chad Myers.
And Chad, I know we've got this report now. As many as 40 people may be injured at this Boy Scout camp near Little Sioux, Iowa, from this tornado.
MYERS: Right.
Just really across the border from Nebraska and not near Des Moines, where Sean is, but very close to Omaha. It's off just north of there.
Law enforcement tornado on the ground right now near Arion, and that is in Iowa as well. There's more than one report of tornadoes on the ground here. We're going to have to keep up with them and maybe even listen to your local radio station, because this is going to be one dangerous and obviously now, a deadly night.
BROWN: All right, Chad, appreciate it. Stay with CNN tonight for more breaking news.
That's it for us in the ELECTION CENTER.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
