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Nancy Grace

Hulk Hogan Releases Threatening Voice-mail Messages

Aired June 16, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Former "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes, all caught on tape. After a disastrous drag racing crash fueled by alcohol, leaving a 23-year-old Iraqi war veteran with irreversible brain damage, Hogan`s family caught on tape blaming the nearly comatose victim, whining about the justice system, even trying to land a reality TV show to make money off the crash.
Headlines tonight: Just released, serious threats against Hulk Hogan and his entire family laced with profanity emerge. Tonight, we have the tapes, the Hogan camp pointing the finger at the victim`s family. And tonight, exclusive home video of a day in the life of the victim, still fighting for his life in a veterans` hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A threatening voice-mail allegedly emerges against Hulk Hogan and his family, expletive-laced tirades berating Hogan and his family members. Police say an investigation now under way, as the victim, John Graziano, continues to undergo round-the-clock intense medical treatment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You disrespected the wrong (DELETED) person, you big mouth (DELETED). Now you and your little (DELETED) son are going to cry your way through (DELETED) jail.

You and your family, you kept opening your (DELETED) mouth. So I`m going to put something in it, (DELETED).

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, police on high alert for two missing toddler boys in extreme danger, all after a nearly deadly Father`s Day visit there in an upscale community just north of LA, a young mother shot 12 times, her children right there, looking on. The miracle, the mother survives, able to ID the shooter. As we go to air, the hunt for the two children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sunday morning, the mother of two was dropping her boys off with her estranged husband when an argument broke out in front of her children and neighbors. It`s now a multi-agency manhunt, including the FBI and U.S. Marshals, looking for 26-year-old Jose Luis Ortega. Place say he kidnapped his two boys, 5-year-old Diego and 3-year-old Luis Ortega.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives had one phone conversation with the suspect. At midnight, Jose Luis Ortega answered his cell phone. A detective said, We`re not concerned about your whereabouts, we just want to know where the children are, asking could he drop them off somewhere safe so they could be picked up. Ortega said, no, the kids were fine, and he was not going to drop them off anywhere. Ortega then hangs up and turns his cell phone off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Associated Press reports the mother was shot at least 12 times and is now in critical condition in a local area hospital. After allegedly shooting his estranged wife, Ortega grabbed the children and fled in a Ford pick-up truck that was later found Sunday night. Police say Ortega is armed and dangerous and may be headed to Mexico with the two young children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight: Former "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes, and it`s all caught on tape. After a disastrous drag racing crash fueled by alcohol, leaving a 23-year-old Iraqi war veteran with irreversible brain damage, just released, serious threats against Hulk Hogan and his entire family, laced with profanity, emerge. Tonight, we have the tapes. And tonight, exclusive home video of a day in the life of the victim, still fighting for his life in a veterans` hospital.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Voice-mail threats allegedly against the Hogan family have emerged. Clearwater police say they`re investigating the allegations that a member of the Graziano family has made threats to the Hogans. Should the Hogan family be worried, or are these tapes just a publicity ploy by the Hogans to garner sympathy? Hogan`s son, Nick, in jail tonight, serving his eight-month sentence for reckless driving that ended up with passenger John Graziano needing significant treatment for the rest of his life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know who the (DELETED) you think you are, Terrence, but you ain`t nothing. And every Marine, every gangsta, every low-life, every crackhead and every (DELETED), they`re going to be looking for you and your little (DELETED) kid.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: That is just the tip of the iceberg. Terry -- Terrence -- Bollea is Hulk Hogan. This call goes on and on, making very specific threats not only against Hulk Hogan but members of his family.

Straight out to Eben Brown with Metro Networks. Eben, what happened?

EBEN BROWN, METRO NETWORKS: Well, allegedly, this call came from the family. It hasn`t been proven one way or the other. Police are still investigating it. And these recordings of this tape made it on a local radio show.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I`m not ready to point a finger at anybody. Police are investigating this. It`s not only an obscene call but a terroristic threat. So that`s a pretty serious charge to level at anybody until we know who made the phone call. Go ahead.

BROWN: Yes, well, the tapes that were heard were not tapes displaying any type of threat. It was saying things to Hulk Hogan like, You messed around with the wrong people, but no direct threats to members of the family.

GRACE: Oh, OK. Are you talking about where he says, Your kid is going to bleed, your little "blank" son is going to bleed slow, I`m going to bleed him and torture him slow, you "blank blank"? You don`t consider that a threat, Eben Brown?

BROWN: So far, police haven`t said it was. They`re still investigating.

GRACE: Well, they haven`t said it is and they haven`t said it isn`t. I mean, but that`s what this is being investigated for, for obscene and harassing phone calls and terroristic threats.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. Joining us, felony prosecutor Holly Hughes out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Joining us tonight in our Manhattan studios, Eric Chase (ph), defense attorney out of LA. And Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney and former fed with the FBI, out of Miami. Holly Hughes, plain and simple, what`s a terroristic threat?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Terroristic threat, Nancy, is when you call and you threaten to do harm to someone or commit a felony or a battery, some kind of violence against them. And that`s exactly what this sounds like. But we don`t know who did it. That`s what they`re investigating. Right now, we just need to find out if, in fact, these calls came from the family, which they`re alleging, but there`s no proof, Nancy.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to have your son (DELETED) my (DELETED), you understand? You (DELETED) buried yourself, Terry, you (DELETED). I don`t give a (DELETED) who you know or how much money you got, you (DELETED). You piece of (DELETED) (DELETED) your mother and your family (DELETED) your whore daughter and your whore wife that`s (DELETED) that 19-year-old`s (DELETED). At least right now, jet skiing, your wife`s (DELETED) (DELETED) him while your son`s rotting in jail, crying, and the whole world is going to think of beating his sweet (DELETED).

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think you`re going to make money off that injured Marine? You`re going to (INAUDIBLE) for the rest of your life, you (DELETED), you bald (DELETED). You`re finished, you (DELETED) (INAUDIBLE) I am going to piss on you and your family`s grave, Terry. I`m going to piss on your son`s (DELETED) grave.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Hugo Rodriguez, joining us out of Miami, defense attorney and former fed with the FBI. Hugo, I know you`re a defense attorney now, but if you were analyzing this as a fed and you hear, I`m going to piss on you, your family`s grave and your grave -- correct me if I`m wrong, but you`ve got to be dead first. I would take that as a terroristic threat.

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER FBI AGENT: First of all, there`s nothing terrorist about this, and I`m tired of prosecutors classifying everything as a terrorist threat. There isn`t anything terrorist about this.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!

(CROSSTALK)

RODRIGUEZ: There isn`t anything terrorist about this.

GRACE: That`s not what I said. Let me clarify the criminal code for you, Hugo.

RODRIGUEZ: OK.

GRACE: And I`ll go back to Holly Hughes. We did not say a terrorist threat, we said a terroristic threat...

RODRIGUEZ: OK.

GRACE: ... which has been in every criminal code in this jurisdiction long, long before we were worried about terrorists here on U.S. soil.

RODRIGUEZ: How do we analyze it?

GRACE: Let me go back to Holly Hughes, and once again, if you could explain to us very simply, as you did before, the definition of a terroristic threat.

HUGHES: Terroristic threat, Nancy, is simply threatening to do harm or violence to another human being and that it`s imminent. And what we hear on these tapes is threatening, you know, You`re going to be in your grave and your son`s going to bleed and I`m going to torture you. That is, in fact, a threat to do violence to someone.

RODRIGUEZ: That`s where we disagree, OK? I listened to these tapes, and other than the obscenities that are going through there, You buried yourself, in jail he is going to bleed and he`s going to be -- and a lot of things may happen to him there, and obscenity after obscenity after obscenity. First of all, we haven`t identified who it is. And you know something? If there`s somebody in his family that is emotional about this, then so be it. But I don`t see this as a threat against anyone, and I doubt very seriously whether anyone will be criminally charged as a result of this tape only, unless they have done some overt act to do something else.

GRACE: Out to Eric Chase, defense attorney. What do you consider to make of, I`m going to bleed your son and torture him slowly? You don`t think that`s a threat to do bodily violence?

ERIC CHASE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I happen to agree that it really isn`t. There has to be some immediacy to the threat. This sounds like a rant. This man is very angry...

GRACE: Actually, the code doesn`t require for immediate -- you two defense attorneys tonight are confusing your criminal code definitions with immediate, bodily serious harm. That`s an aggravated assault.

We are taking your calls. Out to Linda in Pennsylvania. Hi, Linda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have two real quick points. The father, Hogan, he was -- a couple of weeks ago, I heard he`s the one who furnished the liquor to these kids. Why is he not in jail? And has he ever been tested for steroids?

GRACE: Out to Eben Brown. What do we know about how the son, Nick Bollea, got the alcohol?

BROWN: Well, that still hasn`t been released to the public. There`s no evidence to imply that either his father or anyone else had given him any of this alcohol, just -- and without anything like that, they can`t charge him. As far as the steroids question, if you look at history for that through his career, but nothing recently.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your kid`s going to bleed. Your little (DELETED) son is going to bleed slow. I`m going to bleed him and torture him slow, you (DELETED). You ain`t nothing (DELETED). You ain`t nothing.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to have your son (DELETED) my (DELETED), you understand? You (DELETED) buried yourself, Terry, you (DELETED). I don`t give a (DELETED) who you know or how much money you got, you (DELETED). You piece of (DELETED) (DELETED) your mother and your family (DELETED) your whore daughter and your whore wife that`s (DELETED) that 19-year-old`s (DELETED). At least right now, jet skiing, your wife`s (DELETED) (DELETED) him while your son`s rotting in jail, crying, and the whole world is going to think of beating his sweet (DELETED).

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Back out to Holly Hughes, joining us tonight in our Manhattan studio. Holly, there`s not only a terroristic threat charge here that is possible, but of course, obscene phone calls. Explain.

HUGHES: Yes, Nancy. When you call someone and leave threatening messages like that and you`re using all that profanity, you can also be charged with obscene or harassing phone calls, depending on the statute in each state. And basically, it is. It`s calling up with the intent to harass them, to frighten them, to basically just put out there, even if it`s not an overt threat, to harass and bother and intimidate them. That`s exactly what we`re hearing on these phone calls, Nancy.

GRACE: What is the statute requirement -- I`m talking about maximum, minimum jail time on a terroristic threat? Harassing phone call, an obscene phone call, is a misdemeanor. So the max you`re going to get anywhere in the country is 12 months. But on a terroristic threat, that`s a felony.

HUGHES: Yes, Nancy. What you`re looking at is a one to five range. And that can be one to five either probated sentence or up to five years incarceration in the state penitentiary if the judge think it`s appropriate.

GRACE: Out to Rory O`Neill joining us on Metro Networks. Welcome back, Rory. Rory, what can you tell us about where the son got the alcohol the night of the drag racing crash?

RORY O`NEILL, METRO NETWORKS: Well, we do know that the father was buying alcohol earlier that day when John and Nick and Hulk Hogan actually had all gone boating for the day. So we know he bought alcohol earlier in the day. And then we know at the end of the day, when the crash took place, there was alcohol found in Nick Hogan`s system -- below the legal limit, but it was still confirmed to be there. So that`s all we know for sure.

GRACE: Rory, Linda in Pennsylvania wants to know whether Hulk Hogan is being investigated for allegedly providing the alcohol to his underage son.

O`NEILL: I don`t think there was that -- there is the obvious connection, but I don`t know if there`s enough to make the legal draw-the- line connection to exactly what happened and follow the booze, as it were.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live tonight. Tapes emerge of threats being made against Hulk Hogan and his family. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got a big (DELETED) mouth, Terry. You got a big (DELETED) mouth on this (DELETED) day. You disrespected the wrong (DELETED) person, you big mouth (DELETED). Now you and your little (DELETED) son are going to cry your way through (DELETED) jail. But now you and your little (DELETED) son are going to (INAUDIBLE) (DELETED) jail. But listen, you got a big (DELETED) mouth and God put some serious (DELETED) on you, man. You hear me? I don`t know who the (DELETED) you think you are, Terrence, but you ain`t nothing.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Jon in Canada. Hi, Jon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How`re you doing, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to know why you guys seem to downplay and ignore the fact that he got in that car knowingly and didn`t wear a seatbelt after being drinking, knowing that he`d been drinking with Nick.

GRACE: I don`t downplay it. It`s part of the facts. But being in a car without a seatbelt, do you think the penalty is life on a ventilator?

That reminds me, Holly, of when I would prosecute rape cases and the defense would be, Well, you`re downplaying that she had on a short skirt and she was having a beer at 10:00 o`clock that night. What about that?

HUGHES: That`s exactly right, Nancy. When you`re in a criminal prosecution, what you need to look at and what you need to tell your jury is, We are not here because of the actions of the victim. We are here because of the criminal actions of the defendant in this case. And nobody`s downplaying the fact that John voluntarily got into that car. But the reason you have a criminal prosecution is because of the behavior the defendant engaged in was criminal. It`s against the law, and he needs to be held responsible for that.

GRACE: Tonight, we have been given exclusive home video of the victim, what his life is like. We have pixilated a portion of his injuries because the injuries to his head are so incredibly severe. You are seeing video provided to us about what Graziano`s life is like. I`ve been on a lot of crash wards and rehab centers to meet with victims. And even now, after all these years, this is how wrenching it is to see what he is going through.

To Dr. Marty Makary joining us from Johns Hopkins. Dr. Makary, you know essentially what his injuries are. Is this what he will face the rest of his life?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Most certainly, Nancy, it is. Sometimes people can regain what we refer to as one level of spinal cord function, but for the most part, we`re talking about complete paralysis, a risk of blood clots and infection that`s going to be there for the rest of his life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to have your son (DELETED) my (DELETED), you understand? You (DELETED) buried yourself, Terry, you (DELETED). I don`t give a (DELETED) who you know or how much money you got, you (DELETED). You piece of (DELETED) (DELETED) your mother and your family (DELETED) your whore daughter and your whore wife that`s (DELETED) that 19- year-old`s (DELETED). At least right now, jet skiing, your wife`s (DELETED) (DELETED) him while your son`s rotting in jail, crying, and the whole world is going to think of beating his sweet (DELETED)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: These tapes emerge containing, according to many, terroristic threats and obscenities.

Out to Rory O`Neill with Metro Networks. How did they get leaked? OK, no Rory.

What about it, Eben Brown?

BROWN: Well, the tapes were brought to an area radio show that the host is a friend of the Hogan family, and they were played on the radio here in the area.

GRACE: At that juncture, did police already have the tapes?

BROWN: Yes. Yes.

GRACE: To Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and author. Doctor, what would the caller get out of making this type of phone call?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I think they`re very, very angry. They`re feeling helpless. And there`s a murderous rage there. I mean, it`s very, very threatening. And if I were Hulk Hogan, I would feel very frightened by a phone call like that because it sounds like this person is really very much out of control.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Sara in Indiana. Hi, Sara.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is kind of like what the guy from Canada asked. I just -- I don`t know why everybody keeps referring to this John guy as a victim. He knowingly -- I mean, he was probably drinking, too. He got in that car with Nick. And everybody is making the Hogans out like they`re monsters or something. I mean, Hulk Hogan is a dad. He`s defending his son, which is perfectly normal.

GRACE: Yes, I think it`s got something to do with the fact that the victim is permanently brain-damaged for life and that the Hogan family is trying to make money off the crash. A lot of people think that`s wrong, all right? And the law says drag racing is wrong.

You know, it`s amazing to me, Holly, that people don`t see this guy -- look at his life -- as a victim.

HUGHES: I don`t understand that. Clearly, this young man, John Graziano, is a victim. He is a victim of Nick`s behavior out in the street that night, driving drunk, drag racing.

GRACE: Everyone, we`ll be right back, and we`re taking your calls live.

But to tonight`s "Case Alert." In the last hours, police make an arrest in the shooting death of a California sheriff`s deputy, 37-year-old Sergeant Tony Diaz gunned down Sunday night. It followed a high-speed chase on a county road, Donegan (ph). Suspect, 35-year-old Marco Topete, who fled on foot after allegedly opening fire on Officer Diaz. Police also say he was on parole, had his infant son in the car during the chase. Diaz is a 10-year veteran of the Yellow (ph) County sheriff`s department. He leaves behind three children, ages 2, 4 and 16.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think you`re going to make money off that injured Marine? You`re going to (INAUDIBLE) for the rest of your life, you (DELETED), you bald (DELETED). You`re finished, you (DELETED) (INAUDIBLE) I`m going to piss on you and your family`s grave, Terry. I`m going to piss on your son`s (DELETED) grave.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live as these tapes emerge just before we go to air.

I want to go out to Ron Schindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. Ron, thank you for being with us. How will police be able to confirm who made the call?

RON SCHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Nancy, they`ll be able to make electronic verification. They`ll bring those tapes in. They`ll run them through electronic devices. They`ll match them up -- the auditory signals, digitally, they`ll match them up. Plus, we have a possibility of a range here. This wasn`t just a random call. We know all of the people involved and all who may have done it or may not have done it, and we can narrow this down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ain`t nothing and every Marine, every gangster, every low life, every crackhead, and every scumbag will be looking for you and your little (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kid. You little homosexual (EXPLETIVE DELETED) were going to pop his cherry one way or the other.

You opened your mouth and it came back (EXPLETIVE DELETED) haunt you. You and your family, you kept opening your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mouth, so I`m going put something in there scumbag.

I am going to have your son (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you understand? You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) buries yourself Terry you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) who you know or how much money you got, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

You piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your mother and your family. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your whore daughter and your whore wife. That (EXPLETIVE DELETED) that 19-year-old`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED). At least right now jet skiing.

Your wife`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) him while your son`s rotting in jail crying and the whole world is going to think of beating his sweet (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

Your kid`s going to bleed. Your little (EXPLETIVE DELETED) son is going to bleed slow. I`m going to bleed him and torture him slow. You (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You ain`t nothing (EXPLETIVE DELETED). You ain`t nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: It was just a few short days ago that the Hogan family was screaming about mistreatment when their phone calls were released due to a freedom of information act put on the sheriff.

And now this call has been leaked. Wonder who did that?

Out to Rory O`Neill with Metro Networks. What do you think about that turn of events?

RORY O`NEILL, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS: Well, it is interesting. That was one of the complaints that we heard, especially during the -- Hulk`s appearance on "LARRY KING" last week, upset about the release of the phone calls that he had made and his wife had made with their son while he was sitting in the jail.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK HOGAN, HULK HOGAN`S SON: Will you work on that reality deal.

HULK HOGAN, WRESTLEMANIA STAR: Yes.

N. HOGAN: . for me? And get that thing lined up so the minute I walk out of wherever I walk out of it`s there. Boom.

H. HOGAN: Can you do it while you`re on probation?

N. HOGAN: Yes, of course.

H. HOGAN: Yes. OK. You want to do it with Pink Sneakers or you want to do it someone else?

N. HOGAN: I want to do it where I`ll make the most money.

H. HOGAN: Well, then you need to do it with me, Jason and Eric.

N. HOGAN: OK.

H. HOGAN: You know if I`m producing the show, I won`t screw, you know that.

N. HOGAN: Yes, of course.

H. HOGAN: I`ll get you -- I`ll make you an owner.

N. HOGAN: Yes.

H. HOGAN: You own the show.

N. HOGAN: Yes.

H. HOGAN: Yes. So let me get to work on that with Eric. It`s a lot easier, too.

N. HOGAN: OK. Cool.

H. HOGAN: So dude, we can get that pull off, dude.

N. HOGAN: Reality.

H. HOGAN: "The New Nick," we`ll call it "The New Nick" or something.

N. HOGAN: New Nick.

H. HOGAN: Or something -- we`ll have to come up with a good name. Think of a good name.

N. HOGAN: I`ll be thinking up a good name.

H. HOGAN: The.

N. HOGAN: It`ll be reality how I`m getting back on my feet and how I`m recovering after this celebrity out of jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are seeing exclusive home video taken of the victim in this case, John Graziano. He is only 23 years old. He is a two-time, double-duty Iraqi war vet. This is his life now. This is the reality.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Robert in Florida. Hi, Robert.

ROBERT, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

ROBERT: My question is, Nancy, what do you expect in reference to the death threats with all the bad media coverage he`s been getting? Granted, it was a tragic accident. Unfortunately in this society, it`s all about who you know and how much money you have.

It hurts, but it`s true.

GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you, Robert, when someone chooses to drink and then drive, I don`t consider that an accident.

Holly, I`ve argued this a million times in habitual violator cases. When you choose to take a drink, then another drink, then another drink, you know, fine. Go ahead. Get smashed. But then it is a conscious decision to get your keys out of your pocket, walk to the car, get in the car, crank it up and take off. That is not an accident.

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTION: That`s right. That`s exactly what we were talking about earlier. You know, that -- first of all, I`ve got a name for his show. Let`s call it "No Clue."

I mean this kid is not accepting responsibility, and his parents are just continuing -- oh, they`re crying with him on the phone, you poor baby, you`re in jail. Well, guess what, you are in jail on a very light sentence because you chose to drink and drive.

And as a result, somebody got seriously injured. He has no clue what he`s done. He`s sitting there talking about making money off of somebody else`s tragedy.

And as to the last caller, all I want to ask her -- and as a prosecutor, we ask this a million times -- how would you feel if it was your child laying on that respirator?

GRACE: You know, why is it, Dr. Robi, that people tend to want to blame the victim?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR OF "TILL DEATH DO US PART": I think because it`s very uncomfortable to see somebody who is, you know, just in dire state. And so instead of saying, hey, that can happen to me or somebody I love, we like to say, well, they did something to deserve it. hat`s why they`re in this situation and why I`m not.

GRACE: And why I won`t be.

LUDWIG: That`s right.

GRACE: It`s the comfort level.

LUDWIG: That`s right.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Tina in Pennsylvania. Hi, Tina.

TINA, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

TINA: I just want to make a comment regarding the young lady. I disagree with her. She commented that the Marine made the decision and why is everyone acting like he`s the victim.

Certainly he`s the victim. Hulk Hogan`s son got a little bit of time in the county jail and he gets to live daily on his own. And clearly from these pictures on this TV it is a sad, sad life for this young man.

And I hope that -- with all of this that`s happening, I hope that someone can clearly see the effects of drinking and driving. It`s just very sad. This man served our country and this is how he gets to live the rest of his life.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Eileen, in North Carolina. Hi, Eileen.

EILEEN, NORTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. God bless you for what you do.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. I got to tell you something, Eileen. I hate that the Hogans got this phone call. But knowing what this boy is going through, this John Graziano, it`s -- that`s the rest of his life, Eileen, the rest of his life.

EILEEN: It is so tragic. It is just terrible. But that doesn`t make the phone call right either. And that`s what my question was really. I was wondering if the Hogans would be offered any type of protection until this perpetrator was caught.

GRACE: You know, Eileen, I couldn`t hear you. You cut out on me. What`s your question?

EILEEN: I was wondering if this -- if the Hogans would be offered any protection until this perpetrator was caught.

GRACE: Interesting question. What about it, Ron Schindel?

RON SCHINDEL, FMR. NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: I`m sure the Hogan family already has personal security at this point. You know they`re celebrities in their own right. But certainly after this phone call they`ll probably up their security to a point where they`re more comfortable.

GRACE: Out to the lines Jane in Florida. Hi, Jane.

JANE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

JANE: I love your show. Love your children.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you so much.

JANE: I used to watch a lot of wrestling. And that, to me, sounds like it could be a wrestling voice. Do you think he would be low enough to do something like that, to.

GRACE: Oh, to make the call, then release it to engender public sympathy? I don`t know. I had not even thought of that aspect. What about it, Rory O`Neill?

O`NEILL: Well, that`s one of the things I`m sure that the police will be investigating. You know, they are still looking into this. No one has been arrested as far as this call is concerned. No charges have been filed. It`s something the police are investigating and something the Hogans aren`t really talking about other than to say they are cooperating with the investigation.

GRACE: So back to Eric Chase joining us out of L.A. What do you advise the caller, the person that made this phone call to do?

ERIC CHASE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, first of all, don`t make any more phone calls. That should be pretty obvious.

GRACE: And especially don`t leave any more voicemail messages.

CHASE: Well, I think at this point the Hogans are going to be recording all their phone calls. What you got to focus on when you listen to their phone call, there may be one sentence in there that is actually a threat, the "I`m going to make you bleed."

Everything else is a statement of -- this is what`s going to happen to you because of what you`ve done. And I think that every.

GRACE: So bottom line, don`t make any phone calls?

CHASE: Well, of course. And I think at this point he needs to hire an attorney and do some damage control.

GRACE: OK. Hugo? Hugo, are you with me?

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER FBI AGENT: I`m with you and I agree with that. And I`m going to agree with Holly. I think these are harassing phone calls. I would tell the person to stop and desist. And the other caller that called and asks whether there could somebody who was setup, I want her on my injury.

GRACE: You know the thing is, whoever it is, to leave a voicemail, to leave a message. Hey, they probably even got caller I.D.

Everybody, when we come back, police on high alert for two missing toddler boys in extreme danger tonight. It was a near deadly Father`s Day just north of L.A., a young mother shot 12 times, her children looking on. Miracle, she survived and I.D.`s the shooter.

As we go to air, the hunt for the two children.

But right now as always, we salute our troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Staff Sergeant Daniel Post with the 113th army band out of Ft. Knox, Kentucky.

I`d like to say hi to all the soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan and let you know that we are praying for you.

To my family and friends back home in Texas, I miss you very much. And to my son, Deuce, no father could be more proud of his son. I love you, buddy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities are desperately searching for two young boys who police believe were abducted after their mother was shot multiple times early Sunday.

According to police, 27-year-old Jose Luis Ortega shot his estranged wife after the two became involved in an argument outside Ortega`s home. After reportedly telling the mother he was going to kill her family and then flee to Mexico, police say Ortega then grabbed the children and jumped into a black Ford pickup truck.

The 1998 Ford Ranger was found Sunday night, but there is no sign of the children or Ortega, who police say is armed and dangerous.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Tonight the hunt for those two little boys believed to be in extreme danger. The tip line 1-877-LAWFULL, 529-3855.

Out to Claudia Peschiutta with KNX Newsradio, what happened?

CLAUDIA PESCHIUTTA, REPORTER, KNX NEWSRADIO: Nancy, this is a young couple, Rocille(ph) and Jose Luis Ortega. They`re both in their 20`s. The couple is apparently having some marital problems. They weren`t living together. They`d been fighting over custody of the two young boys.

Yesterday morning, Father`s Day, Rocille goes to her husband`s home in Sunland, that`s in northern L.A. County to drop off the boys, 3-year-old Luis and 5-year-old Diego.

Neighbors say they heard yelling, there was an argument. Then Jose Luis Ortega allegedly shot his wife 10 to 12 times, got in that black pickup truck, and took off with the two boys.

Rosita Ortega was critically injured but police say she was able to tell them that Jose Luis was the shooter. About 12 hours later the pickup truck was found near Lancaster, about 65 miles away from the scene of the shooting.

L.A. County sheriff`s deputies searched the area. They did not find Ortega nor the boys and there was no weapon inside the truck. Shortly after that, the LAPD got Ortega on his cell phone. He told the cops the kids were OK. They tried to convince him to leave the boys with a relative, at a fire station, somewhere else, where they could pick them up but Ortega hung up on them.

Since then police say they`ve been unable to reach him. They think he`s heading for Mexico for a number of reasons. Ortega was born in Mexico but he is a U.S. citizen and police say his wife told them that he had threatened to kill her family and go to Mexico.

So the Border Patrol has been notified. They have photos of Jose Luis Ortega and the two boys. The FBI is also in on this. And the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has also offered its help on this case.

GRACE: Claudia Peschiutta joining us from KNX Newsradio there in L.A.

Also with us tonight Sue Doyle with the "L.A. Daily News." Do we know how the victim is tonight?

SUE DOYLE, REPORTER, L.A. DAILY NEWS: I heard that she`s in -- she`s in serious condition and she`s still in the ICU at the local hospital.

GRACE: To Lieutenant Ted Matthews with the LAPD Foothills station. He`s investigating the case.

Lieutenant, thank you for being with us. What are the extent of her injuries?

LT. RED MATTHEWS, LAPD FOOTHILL STATION: She is -- as has been reported, suffered several gunshot wounds, most seriously to her abdomen area. She was in surgery for over four hours and very -- we`re very blessed that she`s come through that surgery and has survived those many gunshot wounds.

GRACE: So no injury to the head, Lieutenant?

GRACE: No, no injuries to the head.

GRACE: To Ron Schindel, former NYPD deputy inspector -- Ron, again, thank you for being with us.

Ron, in a case like this with 12 consecutive shots, what type of a weapon would he have to be using?

SCHINDEL: With that much capacity he was probably using an automatic, semiautomatic handgun. There are capacities out there of 15 rounds so 12 rounds could have certainly been shot from that.

GRACE: To Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and author, this is your expertise, especially in your book "Till Death Do Us Part."

LUDWIG: Yes.

GRACE: Weigh in.

LUDWIG: My thought is that the husband was abusive and that the wife threatened to leave him and something happened and triggered his rage on Father`s Day where he thought the family should look and operate differently and he just went berserk.

GRACE: Out to Eric Chase, what kind of charge is Ortega looking at?

CHASE: Well, obviously multi-l charges. He`s looking at attempted murder, he`s looking at kidnapping, crossing state lines, if he tries to take the kids out of the country, He`s looking at additional charges.

I think for this man right now, when he`s caught, his life is going to be over in terms of being a free man at any point.

GRACE: Holly?

HUGHES: Absolutely. But also add there aggravated assault, aggravated battery. There was an argument that preceded it so he could have a terroristic threats charge coming at him.

I agree wholeheartedly he`s looking at a kidnapping charge, and if anything happens to those children, Nancy, he`s also looking at further charges.

GRACE: Hugo Rodriguez, what`s the likelihood we could ever get him out of Mexico?

RODRIGUEZ: We can get him out of Mexico. We`ve seen an ex-Marine that just got pulled out of Mexico. I`m just concerned about the kids. If he does go to Mexico and this lady were to die, we know that they will not extradite him if there`s a death penalty pending.

The best thing he can do is tender his kids and come to me or another lawyer and let`s surrender him because this is not going to have a positive outcome.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins -- Dr. Makary, 12 gunshot wounds and she lived? That is a medical miracle.

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: If she`s going to survive 12 gunshot wounds, it`s because they`re to the abdomen. If you miss all the major vessels there it is possible to survive it.

But, Nancy, this is a trend from a public health standpoint. We`re seeing more of multiple gunshot wounds and more close range gunshot wounds as these semiautomatic weapons are freely available in society now.

HAMMER: Sue Doyle with the "L.A. News," does he have any family here in the States?

DOYLE: From what I understand that he was staying at a house where there was family that was there.

GRACE: So he does have some connections to the area.

DOYLE: Right.

GRACE: Out to the line, Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

SHEEBA, ILLINOIS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. You still look radiant.

My question is, are the Border Patrol really looking hard at this guy, if they`ve got a picture of him? And what if they do catch him, he holds these children hostage in some way?

GRACE: To Lieutenant Ted Matthews joining us from the LAPD Foothills station, what about it, Lieutenant?

MATTHEWS: Yes, the Border Patrol has been very cooperative with this and they do have the tools to look at individuals cross the border. We`ve been supplying him the most accurate and most up to date information as we can.

And Yes, that is always that is always a concern and it has been a concern since this incident began yesterday that this could turn into some type of hostage situation. That`s always in the back of our mind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED EYEWITNESS: He was leaning through the window and he was pushing at her and saying, what are you going to do about it? And his voice was raising. I just thought she was going to get in her car and drive away. That`s what it looked like to me. I could hear the voices being raised but you never think that somebody is going to get shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jose Luis allegedly shot his wife nearly a dozen times, her body riddled with bullets. As she lie in the street bleeding, her boys were abducted. Neighbors say they rushed over to help, wrapping her in these blankets until help arrived. Police say she is lucky to be alive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Tonight the search for the little boys, 1-877-529-3855 is the tip lines.

Out to the lines, Star in Georgia. Hi, Star. Hi, dear, are you with me?

STAR, GEORGIA RESIDENT: Yes.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

STAR: My question is how is it considered kidnapping? And why would he face kidnapping if they`re his kids?

GRACE: OK. I couldn`t hear the first parts of your question. Repeat. OK. I couldn`t hear you but I`ll quickly go out to Eric Chase.

Why, if they are his children, would it be a kidnapping charge?

CHASE: Well, they`ve been putting very specific laws on the books over the past many years that when one parent takes the children and interferes with the custodial rights of another parent, in fact, it is now kidnapping and has been for sometime.

GRACE: And back out to Lieutenant Ted Matthews, joining us from the LAPD. What are you guys doing to try to apprehend him, stop him from going into Mexico?

MATTHEWS: Yes, we`ve -- again, we`ve been working close with the border authorities. But mainly what we`ve been trying to do is get the word out, get his face out with the public. And we`ve -- through the course of the day.

GRACE: Right.

MATTHEWS: . we`ve had numerous, what we thought -- people thought were sightings and we followed all of those up. Unfortunately, they haven`t proven to be our individual we`re looking for. But we are very thankful to the public for that and we want to continue doing that.

GRACE: Thank you, Lieutenant Matthews, Sue Doyle and Claudia Peschiutta.

Let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Miguel Baez III, 32, Bonaire, Georgia, killed, Iraq. A paratrooper and machine gunner, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Army Commendation medal. Devoted family man. Loved volunteering and helping fellow soldiers.

Leaves behind parents, Miguel and Ramona, widow, Elena, and four children.

Miguel Baez, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. And tonight a special good night from Pennsylvania and New Jersey friends of the show, Garrett, Ed, Jillian and Ali, two little crime fighters.

I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END