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Nancy Grace
Witness Claims Hogan Beer Buy Hours Before Son`s Crash
Aired June 17, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Former "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes, all caught on tape. After a disastrous drag racing crash fueled by alcohol, leaving a 23-year-old Iraqi war veteran with irreversible brain damage, Hogan`s family caught on tape blaming the nearly comatose victim, whining on and on about the justice system, even trying to land their own reality TV show to make money off the crash.
Headlines tonight. Bombshell witnesses place Hulk Hogan with his underage son at a local liquor store, buying cases and cases of alcohol just hours before Hogan`s souped-up Supra plows into a tree. And tonight, more video reveals Hogan stopped for speeding nearly double the limit just days before the crash. And tonight: Serious threats against Hulk Hogan and his entire family emerge, laced with profanity. Tonight, more of those threats released, and we have the tapes. And exclusive home video of the day in the life of the victim, still fighting for his life in a veterans` hospital.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to (DELETED) on you and your family`s grave, Terry!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remarkable troubles of Hulk Hogan`s family have taken a disturbing new turn, police in Clearwater, Florida, now investigating threatening phone calls made to the Hogans. They are incredibly disturbing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your kid`s going to bleed. Your little (DELETED) son is going to bleed slow. I`m going to bleed him and torture him slow, you (DELETED). You ain`t nothing (DELETED). You ain`t nothing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think you`re going to make money off that injured Marine? You`re going to (INAUDIBLE) for the rest of your life, you (DELETED), you bald (DELETED). You`re finished, you (DELETED) (INAUDIBLE) I am going to piss on you and your family`s grave, Terry. I`m going to piss on your son`s (DELETED) grave.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: Attention Wal-Mart shoppers. In the fabric department of local Indiana Wal-Mart, a 2-year-old toddler boy wandering the aisles all alone, abandoned, in his backpack a handwritten note. Police now combing for clues. Who left their own toddler boy to fend for himself in a crowded Wal-Mart?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police have little to go on to identify this boy. All he had on him inside the Wal-Mart where he was abandoned was a Winnie-the-Pooh backpack with a few diapers, two bottles and a note. The note says the boy`s name is Martin. Rosa Martinez (ph) called over the intercom for his mother. She also tried to talk to the boy, who wasn`t crying and wouldn`t speak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is his picture. Police say his name is either Martin or Martine, an innocent little boy who police say didn`t deserve what happened to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve never experienced a call like this before, and I don`t think anyone else around here has, either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That call came from an employee at this Wal-Mart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child was roaming or alone in the fabric area of Wal-Mart.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say he was wearing a backpack filled with clothes, diapers and a letter from a woman. And in that letter, she wrote the father had left the family and she can no longer care for the child. Now police are trying to connect the dots.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight: Former "Wrestlemania" and reality TV superstar Hulk Hogan on the ropes after a disastrous drag racing crash fueled by alcohol, leaving a 23-year-old Iraqi war veteran with irreversible brain damage.
Tonight, bombshell witnesses place Hulk Hogan with his underage son at a local liquor store just hours before Hogan`s souped-up Supra plows into a tree. And tonight, more video reveals Hogan stopped by police for speeding just days before this near deadly crash. And exclusive home video in a day of the life of the victim, still fighting for his life in a veterans` hospital.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s the latest fallout from that tragic street racing accident that landed Hulk`s son, Nick, in jail and left Nick`s friend, former Marine John Graziano, in a semi-conscious state.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to have your son (DELETED) my (DELETED), you understand? You (DELETED) buried yourself, Terry, you (DELETED). I don`t give a (DELETED) who you know or how much money you got, you (DELETED). You piece of (DELETED) (DELETED) your mother and your family (DELETED) your whore daughter and your whore wife that`s (DELETED) that 19-year-old`s (DELETED). At least right now, jet skiing, your wife`s (DELETED) (DELETED) him while your son`s rotting in jail, crying, and the whole world is going to think of beating his sweet (DELETED).
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The calls also reference those now infamous jailhouse tapes, where we hear Hulk and Nick suggest that Graziano brought his situation on himself.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
HULK HOGAN: God laid some heavy (DELETED) on that kid, man.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The threatening caller was not amused.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got a big (DELETED) mouth, Terrence. You got a big (DELETED) mouth on this (DELETED) day. You disrespected the wrong (DELETED) person, you big mouth (DELETED). Now you and your little (DELETED) son are going to cry your way through (DELETED) jail. But now you and your little (DELETED) son are going to (INAUDIBLE) (DELETED) jail. But listen, you got a big (DELETED) mouth and God put some serious (DELETED) on you, man. You hear me? I don`t know who the (DELETED) you think you are, Terrence, but you ain`t nothing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And now that these disgusting tapes have been made public, it`s clear that the tragedies in this case have yet to reach their end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are going for the latest, but the very first thing I want to do is clarify something that was said last night. Now, Hulk Hogan`s PR people contacted our show and they were very distraught that someone on the show said his son, Nick Bollea, was drunk driving, driving drunk. And I want to clarify. The legal statute says .08 is DUI, driving under the influence. His son was .034.
And I would also like to point out that he had been 17 years old for 30 days. It is illegal for anyone under the age of 21 to ingest alcohol, to purchase alcohol. So that brings me to a whole `nother point. And I`m so grateful to Hulk Hogan`s PR team for bringing this up.
I want to go straight out to Art Harris, investigative journalist at Artharris.com. Art, explain to me what your sources tell you as to where Nick Hogan got the liquor.
Wait, let me clear up. Was Hulk Hogan in a liquor store just hours before the near deadly crash?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: That`s right, Nancy. The clerk at Albertson`s liquor store in Clearwater has told investigators that Hulk Hogan went in the store with Nick and several of his friends and bought -- I`ll read you the receipt list -- two cases of Miller Lite, two cases of Corona Extra, one case of Miller Chill (ph) beer, five bags of ice. Oh, and also two packs of Corona.
Anyway, this is -- there were three packages. Hulk carried two to his truck. One of the young men carried the other out, according to witnesses. There was a security camera capturing all this, Nancy. They couldn`t quite make that out, but the witnesses did give sworn statements.
GRACE: Now, that was between 3:30 and 4:00 o`clock in the afternoon, according to a witness there in the parking lot. The clerk there in Albertson`s liquor store positively identifies Hulk Hogan bringing his underage son -- had only been 17 for 30 days -- into the liquor store, where he made a purchase of case after case of beer. The crash was at what time, Art Harris?
HARRIS: The crash was at 7:30 that night, Nancy. So they went out on the boat, cruised around, anchored off of a bar called Shepard`s (ph) Tiki Bar in Clearwater. Hulk stayed on the boat. A bunch of the kids get in the water, waded ashore and tried to get into the bar. They were turned away because they didn`t have IDs. No evidence, no witnesses testified that Nick was drinking alcohol. And that is the reason, as you brought up earlier, that drunk driving charges could not be proved, they felt.
GRACE: Patricia Saunders, you`re the clinical psychologist. I don`t recall my father and mother taking me into the liquor store. I`m wracking my memory for those childhood memories. It`s just not popping up.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Most parents don`t try to be their kids` best friend or drinking buddies. It`s incompatible with being a good parent.
GRACE: I want to go to Tom O`Neill, senior editor with "In Touch Weekly." What more can you tell us, Tom?
TOM O`NEILL, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, five cases of beer tied probably to this incident, somehow, finally, you know, implies that Nick -- that Hulk himself is tied into this. And that`s always been the missing link here. Alcohol never played a legal role in this case, but we know that it was part of the case because, as you mentioned, two hours afterwards, there is this .034 alcohol content in the boy`s blood. Well, where did it come from? We now have evidence that traces it to Daddy.
GRACE: I want to go out to Dr. Marty Makary. He is with Johns Hopkins University. Dr. Makary, thank you for being with us. We know that Nick Bollea, Nick Hogan, is about six feet, 185 pounds. If he is .034 and this is nearly three hours after the crash, what would his blood alcohol estimate have been three hours before?
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: It probably would have been very close to .08, if not at that number. I mean, .034 means he`s had four to eight drinks, with the last drink being within about four to five hours from the previous (INAUDIBLE) Remember, Nancy, the .08 number was set when the breathalyzers were not very good. And now that technology has improved, that number can be detected at a much lower level.
GRACE: Dr. Makary, if you were looking at a young man, age 17, had just turned 17 at the time of this drag racing crash, about how many drinks would it take for him to be at .08?
MAKARY: It would probably be take about 10 to 12 drinks at that weight. So he was probably very close, and the timing may have simply obscured the number.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to the lines. Brenda in Michigan. Hi, Brenda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really just want to make a comment. All those people out there that are saying, basically, John got what he deserved because he knowingly got into the vehicle -- what upsets me is that this isn`t the first time that Nick Hogan has gotten into trouble for speeding, as will be seen on your show later tonight. And a lot of people feel that if the Hogans would have been parents and disciplined their son, then maybe something like this would never happen in the first place.
It takes someone to be in a vegetative state for possibly the rest of their lives for them to try and be parents now. I think it`s a little too late for that. And that`s what upsets a lot of people, and especially me because I have an older brother...
GRACE: Well, Brenda -- Brenda in Michigan, we`re showing you video right now -- Art Harris at Artharris.com, explain what this is.
HARRIS: Well, that is actually a stop of Nick Hogan in Pinellas County two weeks before the crash. At that point, he was doing 82 in a 45- mile-an-hour zone, Nancy. That is just one of numerous tickets he`d gotten in the last year.
GRACE: When you say numerous tickets in the last year, explain.
HARRIS: OK. Well, the one thing that grabbed me, Nancy, that was so shocking, he was stopped in August of -- September of `06 driving 107 on Alligator Alley in his Toyota Supra, pulled over. And he was given a warning. For some reason, I`m told that the highway patrol officer was called away on an emergency. Nineteen miles down the road, about 20 minutes later, he was pulled over again, this time doing 115. Both times Hulk Hogan, his father, was in the car.
GRACE: I didn`t know Hogan was in the car with him.
HARRIS: Yes.
GRACE: Are you positive about that, Art Harris?
HARRIS: Yes. In the police report right here, Nancy, that I`ve got. And I`ve confirmed it with the prosecutor, who tells me that, you know, the only reason this did not go to trial and would have been a slam-dunk is that he pled no contest and settled.
GRACE: On both of those?
HARRIS: On these tickets. I don`t know the outcome of the tickets. I`m saying for the crash. This would have been introduced at any criminal trial for reckless driving, had it gone to court.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, family law attorney and child advocate out of New York, Susan Moss. Out of Atlanta, defense attorney Raymond Giudice. Out of New York, veteran trial lawyer, especially in the federal courts -- that`s his specialty -- Doug Burns is joining us. Weigh in, Sue.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Buy your son booze, and a civil trial you`ll lose. You know, there`s a lower standard in civil trials versus criminal trials, and I think when the civil lawyers get to him, this guy is going to just lose, lose, lose. Not only Nick, but daddy Hulk Hogan. The whole family is going to have to write a very large check.
GRACE: To Ray Giudice. Do you really believe that the Graziano family can loop Hogan into a lawsuit?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, I think they`ll probably add what`s called a negligent entrustment claim, meaning that Hulk Hogan negligently entrusted the vehicle to his son, with knowledge that he had committed speeding tickets of high speed, that he drove recklessly. And if they can link the alcohol that was purchased that afternoon to his alcohol in his system, that`s a slam-dunk negligent entrustment claim.
GRACE: Ray, give me your best defense of Hulk Hogan.
GIUDICE: Well, I think that there`s going to be a problem linking that consumption of alcohol to four or five hours later. They need an eyewitness to say, I saw the boy drink the alcohol that Daddy gave them. That`s going to be tough. They didn`t come forward so far.
GRACE: Well, hold on. To Doug Burns, also joining us out of New York. Doug, the clerk at the liquor store, Albertson`s liquor store, says Hulk Hogan comes in with his underage son, had just turned 17, and several other young men. Do you think, Doug Burns -- you know how the practice of law works -- that one of those young men will fold and discuss where Baby Hogan got the booze?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. But working off of Ray`s point, the thing of it is, is they went into the store together. The question is who bought the alcohol. If the father bought it, then the kid hasn`t done anything wrong yet. But you know what? You guys are right. I mean, if somebody flips -- this was an accident waiting to happen, I mean, and I think as...
GRACE: Accident, accident. Did I hear you say accident?
BURNS: Yes. I mean, I`m saying the -- what happened with the car, this kid was so out of control that any of us who have been in criminal law, as I have for over 20 years, knows that, sadly and tragically, this kid is now paralyzed because of this out-of-control behavior.
GRACE: You know, Sue, I take issue with what Burns just spouted off because an accident -- is it an accident to go buy case after case after case of liquor, to drink during the afternoon, then get the key, stick it in the ignition and take off at a high rate of speed? All that, to me, takes premeditation. It`s not like there was a blow-out of the tire and they plowed into a tree.
BURNS: But Nancy, all I`m saying is...
GRACE: Sue?
BURNS: ... that this is not an intentional conduct crime.
GRACE: Sue? I agree with that. Sue?
MOSS: Only if accident is an Indian word for foreseeable action. No, this was no accident. We knew this was going to happen. How many tickets does this guy have to get for driving way, way above the speed limit? He was -- it was absolutely foreseeable.
GRACE: Back to Art Harris with Artharris.com. Art, are we positive, based on what the witness says at the liquor store, that Hogan, Hulk Hogan, bought the alcohol?
HARRIS: That`s correct, Nancy. He bought it and carried two of the bags back to his truck. Another of the young men assisted him carrying the third bag. At the same time, you know, you will see other video of Hulk.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your kid`s going to bleed. Your little (DELETED) son is going to bleed slow. I`m going to bleed him and torture him slow, you (DELETED). You ain`t nothing (DELETED). You ain`t nothing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ain`t nothing, and every Marine, every gangster, every lowlife, every crackhead and every scumbag, they`re going to be looking for you and your little (DELETED) kid, you little homosexual (DELETED). They`re going to pop his cherry one way or the other. You opened your mouth and it came back to (DELETED) haunt you, you and your family. You kept opening your (DELETED) mouth. So I`m going to put something in there, scumbag.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, more of those threats have been released -- we have that tape -- threats made on Hulk Hogan and his entire family. Now, it was stated last night that Hogan`s family is pointing the finger at the Graziano family, the victim`s family, for releasing this. Actually, they simply handed it over to the police. We cannot identify how a long-time friend of Hulk Hogan`s named Bubba Clem on Sirius radio got these tapes and then first publicized them.
To Tom O`Neill with "In Touch Weekly." Any idea how Sirius radio got ahold of these tapes?
O`NEILL: No, we don`t. But I think what`s really telling and interesting about this, Nancy, is this kicks this up to the next emotional level. Remember, when we heard those tapes, those 26 hours of conversations between Nick and his dad, we heard Nick blame John, the victim, for what happened. Then when Hulk went on "Larry King," we heard him blame God and say, This is all part of God`s plan to make my son a better person, even John a better person.
Well, you know, Hulk, if you take a look at these videos that`s Nancy`s been running on this show, John doesn`t look like a better person. This is the obvious natural outrage from the Graziano camp that we would expect. Whether or not it`s ultimately pinned on them, we don`t know.
GRACE: We don`t know how these tapes were leaked or released, but we do know that these profanity-laced threats have been made on Hogan and his entire family.
You are seeing Graziano before the crash and after the crash.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think you`re going to make money off that injured Marine? You`re going to (INAUDIBLE) for the rest of your life, you (DELETED), you bald (DELETED). You`re finished, you (DELETED) (INAUDIBLE) I am going to piss on you and your family`s grave, Terry. I`m going to piss on your son`s (DELETED) grave.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got a big (DELETED) mouth, Terry. You got a big (DELETED) mouth on this (DELETED) day. You disrespected the wrong (DELETED) person, you big mouth (DELETED). Now you and your little (DELETED) son are going to cry your way through (DELETED) jail. But now you and your little (DELETED) son are going to (INAUDIBLE) (DELETED) jail. But listen, you got a big (DELETED) mouth and God put some serious (DELETED) on you, man. You hear me? I don`t know who the (DELETED) you think you are, Terrence, but you ain`t nothing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: These threats have been handed over to the local police department. Again, we do not know who made the call. Hulk Hogan`s PR team has made it very clear that they have not pointed the finger at the Graziano family. And tonight, we cannot identify how one of Hogan`s long- time friends on Sirius radio got these tapes that the police have and broadcast them for the very first time.
I want to go out to Stacy Dittrich, former detective and author of "The Devil`s Closet." As you hear these, many defense attorneys have told me they don`t hear a threat. Do you?
STACY DITTRICH, FORMER DETECTIVE: Absolutely, Nancy. He started talking about, Your kids will bleed. Those are absolute direct threats to harm his family physically. I don`t know how else you could take that, other than a direct threat.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Susan Moss, Ray Giudice, Doug Burns. What do you have to show to make out a felony case of terroristic threats?
GIUDICE: Nancy, you`ve got to have an immediate harm, imminent harm to a reasonable person. It`s not a theoretical threat, One day I`m going to piss on your grave. That doesn`t count. It`s, I`m coming over there with my gun right now to kill you. That`s a terroristic threat.
GRACE: I think -- I think that you are mixing terroristic threat with aggravated assault, which says immediate serious bodily harm. I think these calls may qualify as a felony terroristic threat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news tonight. New exclusive video of the victim, John Graziano, are emerging, showing him before and after the devastating crash and honing in on the Hogan timeline.
What exactly happened in the hours before the horrifying crash that left victim John Graziano incapacitated?
This as police say there may be up to four additional threatening messages against wrestling superstar Hulk Hogan and his family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am going to have your son (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you understand? You (EXPLETIVE DELETED) buried yourself Terry you (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don`t give a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) who you know or how much money you got, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
You piece of (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your mother and your family. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your whore daughter and your whore wife. That (EXPLETIVE DELETED) that 19-year-old`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED). At least right now jet skiing.
Your wife`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) him while your son`s rotting in jail crying and the whole world is going to think of beating his sweet (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: You`re seeing video given to us by Graziano`s family before the crash and after the crash. Graziano did a double duty tour in Iraq, serving his country.
We have pixilated a portion of Graziano`s head. Part of his skull is missing. It`s gone in that area, a portion of his frontal lobe removed.
This is his life now.
I want to go to Dr. Saadi Ghatan, neurosurgeon with Columbia Presbyterian.
Dr. Ghatan, thank you for being with us. What would a day in the life of John Graziano be?
SAADI GHATAN, M.D., NEUROSURGEON, COLUMBIA-PRESBYTERIAN: Well, as you can see from the video, they`re -- John is requiring round the clock care. He`s requiring rehabilitation. He is needing a tracheotomy to assist him to breathe. He requires a feeding tube very likely to assist him to eat.
And the physical therapy that he`s getting is really passive movement that he`s doing. He`s not really participating well.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment. Let`s take a look at what they are doing with his leg. I see his leg going up at the knee and down at the knee, Dr. Ghatan. But I do not believe, after having been on many, many victims` wards like this that he is doing that of his own volition.
Is the nurse moving his knee up and down for physical therapy?
GHATAN: That`s a machine that`s moving him passively to prevent contractures. Very difficult sequelae of the injury he`s already had that can come about months and years down the line.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Let`s go to Mary in Ohio. Hi, Mary.
MARY, OHIO RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you for watching and for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
MARY: I was just wondering, is there any way that Mr. Graziano`s family would be able to get any money off of the "Hogan Knows Best" replays that they`re always re-showing.
GRACE: Interesting question. Susan Moss, what about it?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, they`re not going to get that money specifically, but they are going to get a judgment against the Hogan family. And the Hogan family can then use the money they receive from the royalties to pay off their award.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Ray Giudice, Doug Burns.
Doug burns, very quickly, we know that Hulk Hogan, wife Linda Hogan and the driver of the other vehicle with whom Baby Hogan was dragging -- they`ve all been named in a lawsuit.
So do you believe a jury will perceive that the victim is just going after a deep pocket since Hulk Hogan wasn`t in the car that time?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s a good point actually. But, again, I think from a straight legal standpoint, you can sort of name everybody and it doesn`t really matter.
GRACE: OK.
BURNS: That`s a very good point.
GRACE: And Ray Giudice, if it can be corroborated what Art Harris at Artharris.com has revealed, that Hogan was actually in the vehicle on at least one of those earlier speeding tickets going over 100 miles an hour in that souped-up Toyota Supra, that will make it easier.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy.
GRACE: . for the Graziano family to link Hogan, bootstrap Hogan into this lawsuit.
GIUDICE: Absolutely. It`s the theory of negligent entrustment, plus what Susan talked about earlier was the foreseeability. It was clearly foreseeable on part of the Hogan family that their son was a danger to society and to people on the streets. And if you fuel that with a little alcohol and high-speed vehicle, this crash -- I won`t say accident -- was going to happen.
GRACE: And back to you, Art Harris. You`re seeing the video again. That is the souped-up Supra.
Question, who gave Baby Hogan this car? I`ve got a strong feeling he didn`t go out.
Mom.
GRACE: . and take out a loan at First National Bank for it.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST, ARTHARRIS.COM: Mom and dad. In fact, Hulk Hogan would brag that his son was a great little race car driver. He was what they call a drifter racer. He was able to put these cars into a turn and slide sideways down a track. That`s a different form of racing.
So he bragged about his son`s ability. And this car was bought for him by his parents. And this lawsuit, which you can download at Artharris.com, and the police report, Nancy, show that George Tregos, the Graziano`s lawyer who told me he`s putting celebrity parenting on trial.
GRACE: You know it`s disturbing to me getting a car like this, Dr. Saunders, for your child -- and there`s nothing wrong with that. I understand giving your kid a car if you can afford it when they`re 16. But then accompanying them, taking them to a liquor store, and then allowing them to get behind the wheel.
This kid had just turned 17. 30 days he was 17.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: A lot of parents think that they can assist their young adolescent boys being adults by macho behavior and drinking. Being your son`s best friend is not a way to parent. If anything, it leads them down a road to this kind of problem. Parents mean setting rules.
GRACE: Whoa, you know, Dr. Saunders, I appreciate your analysis. But the reality is, in the courtroom, words are cheap. But when it comes into evidence that Hogan was at that liquor store within hours of this crash and he had been in that vehicle when Baby Hogan got that ticket going over 100 miles an hour, I think it was that ticket, and provided him a car, they`re looking down the wrong end of the barrel on this one.
Out to the lines, Linda in Iowa. Hi, Linda.
LINDA, IOWA RESIDENT: Hey. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
LINDA: Yes, I was curious, being that he is a celebrity status, so to speak, I was wondering if, then, his home number would be a private number. Therefore, it would be non-published or unlisted. So anyone who would have that number or have access to it would actually be someone they knew.
GRACE: Interesting question. What about it, Art Harris?
HARRIS: Well, Nancy, there are services that.
GRACE: She`s talking about the phone threats that were caught on voicemail.
HARRIS: Well, you know, as far as the phone threats, Nancy, it has not been proved it`s a real threat, a real voice. I think that a wrestling script writer needs to be ruled out first to make sure this was not.
GRACE: You`re not into conspiracies, are you?
HARRIS: Well, you know, he`s a brilliant showman. He`s an entertainer.
GRACE: So you think Hogan.
HARRIS: He`s an entertainer. And he has been -- and I`ve been backstage when these wrestling writers have come up with brilliant scenarios to create empathy for the villain.
GRACE: So Tom O`Neill, senior editor with "In Touch Weekly," now, not that Art Harris would come up with a wacky conspiracy theory ever, but that is suggesting that Hulk Hogan is somehow part of his own terroristic threat.
TOM O`NEILL, SR. EDITOR, IN TOUCH WEEKLY: Well, that`s what I find so interesting about the source of this tape, Nancy. He clearly gave it to the DJ at Sirius Radio. He really thinks that this paints him as a victim again.
GRACE: We don`t know that yet. We don`t know that yet.
O`NEILL: Well, I will argue that`s a good point but it seems to be the case right.
GRACE: I`m more concerned about who made the threat rather than who leaked the tape.
O`NEILL: I know. But I think (INAUDIBLE). I wouldn`t rule out the fact that this could be one of those fat guys in tights, in spandex and part.
GRACE: Some people call them muscles, Tom O`Neill.
Very quickly to tonight`s "Case Alert." One of our "Extraordinary Parent" contest finalists needs your help. If you remember Kimberly Presley Herrick and the foundation for Coloring Away Pain that provide coloring books, crayons for children in areas devastated by natural disaster, some leaving their home -- losing their homes and even their parents.
We`re talking about the earthquake in China leaving 5 million homeless, 70,000 dead. The foundation in need of donations. For info, go to Coloringawaypain.com.
When we come back, attention Wal-Mart shoppers. In the fabric department of a local Indiana Wal-Mart, a 2-year-old toddler boy with wandering the aisles all alone abandoned. In his backpack a handwritten note. Police now combing for clues.
Who left their baby to fend for himself in a crowded Wal-Mart?
And now, like every night, we salute our troops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY MACPHERSON, SALUTING THE TROOPS: My name is Kelly MacPherson. My girls Madison and Maya and I would like to salute my husband and their father, Staff Sergeant Donald James MacPherson.
He is currently serving in Iraq with the 10th Mountain Division. We miss him so much and can`t wait until he comes home. Be safe, and we love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police are looking at surveillance video to try and determine who abandoned a 2 1/2-year-old boy at an Indiana Wal-Mart last week. A handwritten note that was left with the boy is most likely from the child`s mother, according to police.
The note stated that she couldn`t take care of the boy anymore and did not have the financial means to provide food and shelter for the toddler. The boy also had a backpack with him that had clothes, toys, bottles and diapers along with other items.
The boy is now in foster care and police are hoping to interview him once he`s more comfortable with his surroundings.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Look at him. He is only 2 1/2 years old. Look at this little thing. Somebody left him all alone, abandoned in a crowded Wal-Mart.
Out to Devon Scott with WIBC Radio FM 93.1.
Devon, what happened?
DEVON SCOTT, REPORTER, WIBC RADIO FM 93.1: Well, Nancy, it happened Friday afternoon at the Wal-Mart in Frankfort, Indiana. That`s between Indianapolis and Lafayette. It`s north of Indianapolis. And Wal-Mart employees found this little boy wandering in the fabric department and nobody seemed to be able to find the boy`s mom or the boy`s dad.
And with the little boy was this note that was written in Spanish. And they went and they found a worker who could translate it and basically what it says was, you know, "His father left 10 months ago, we came to this country a year ago. I just don`t have the money to take care of him, please help."
And as the voiceover said the little boy had sippy cup, some toys, all in a Winnie the Pooh backpack.
GRACE: I can`t imagine what impact this is going to have on Martin, as we believe he is named, for the rest of his life.
To Major Jeff Ward with the Frankfort Police Department -- Major, it`s a real pleasure to have you on.
Major, when the little boy was questioned, interviewed, did they speak to him in Spanish?
MAJ. JEFF WARD, FRANKFORT POLICE DEPT.: We haven`t actually interviewed him as of yet. He wasn`t really speaking until today, and he started speaking in English.
GRACE: So he does speak English.
WARD: He can identify certain cartoon characters like Spongebob and Nemo, Bob the Builder, and, you know, American type of cartoons that we would see here in the United States.
GRACE: Well, Major Jeff Ward, if it wasn`t already broken, you just broke my heart. So the little thing recognizes various cartoon -- characters, and that`s how you guys are communicating with him?
WARD: Actually, our Department of Children Services.
GRACE: Yes.
WARD: . is actually leading the interview process on this child. They`re trained to do this and we`re relying on that training to help us. And we`re just hoping that at some point he`ll relax and become more comfortable with his environment and maybe we`ll get some clues out of him as to actually where he`s from.
GRACE: Major Ward, who`s taking care of him right now?
WARD: He`s in foster care in our county locally.
GRACE: Do you personally know where he is right now?
WARD: Yes, I do.
GRACE: And you think it`s a nice foster care family taking care of him?
WARD: Oh, yes. They`re nice. I`ve been out there to visit him, and I have no question that he`s not in a proper environment.
GRACE: What a sweet, sweet little boy. Look at this kid. 2 1/2 years old, just left to wander the aisles at a Wal-Mart.
To Stacy Dittrich, former detective and also author of "The Devil`s Closet" -- Stacy, weigh in.
STACY DITTRICH, FMR. DETECTIVE, AUTHOR OF "THE DEVIL`S CLOSET": You know, Nancy, this is such a disturbing story and it`s heart-wrenching to everybody but you also -- it is the lesser of two evils.
I would much rather see this mother do this than what some of these other maniacs across the country are doing and tossing their kids off the bridge.
GRACE: Stacy, certainly you`re not telling me those are my two horrible alternatives. One, you can murder the child. Or, two, you can abandon it at a Wal-Mart? How about taking care of it? If you want to put it up for adoption go to the correct channels.
DITTRICH: Well, of course, but she`s from Guatemala, so is she even capable of knowing what it is to do? I`m not defending her by any means. But, you know.
GRACE: That`s a good point. That`s an excellent point. Maybe she didn`t understand what could be done.
To Major Jeff Ward, was the note written in English or Spanish?
WARD: The note was in Spanish.
GRACE: Spanish. You may very well be correct, Stacy Dittrich, that`s an excellent point.
Out to the lines, Anthony in Washington. Hi, Anthony.
ANTHONY, WASHINGTON RESIDENT: How`s it going, Nancy?
GRACE: Well, I`m hanging in there. Did you see the picture of this little boy?
ANTHONY: Unfortunately, I have a daughter of my own and I would hate to see anything like that even to come around. You know?
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
ANTHONY: Well, pretty much what I wanted to know is what do these people think when they drop him off at a place like that? I mean all the predators out there, you`re giving them the perfect opportunity to take the kid just not even going to be looked for.
GRACE: You know what? That`s just exactly how John Walsh`s son was abducted. They turned their back for an instant and the baby was gone. Adam was gone.
Dr. Saunders, what about it?
SAUNDERS: I think this mother must have acted out of desperation. She`d only been in this country for about a year. She didn`t speak English or not fluently. And she might have been illegal. So the idea of going to Child Protective Services might have just been too frightening for her.
GRACE: If she even knew about it, as Stacy Dittrich pointed out.
To Debby in Kentucky, hi, Debby.
DEBBY, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DEBBY: Well, something came to mind while I was watching your program and looking at that sweet little boy. I was wondering, have they thought to look at the surveillance cameras inside that Wal-Mart, to go back and look at the video in that Wal-Mart.
GRACE: Debby in Kentucky, I think you are a private eye. What about it, Major Ward?
WARD: That`s something that we`re trying to get from Wal-Mart currently is their surveillance footage. But the problem is, they have so many hours of it to go through to find what we need. But they`re doing that for us.
GRACE: Excellent, excellent.
To Susan Moss -- Susan, I think Stacy made a good point that the mom may not have known about how to legally put the child up for adoption. But doesn`t every mother know not to leave your child alone and abandon it?
MOSS: Absolutely. This is a criminal act. But it`s better than a dumpster. At least Wal-Mart has those nice greeters. But if she is caught, she will be put on trial and criminal charges, I`m sure, will be prosecuted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARD: Knowing that her husband had left her a few months ago. They might be missing the boy from another jurisdiction and maybe this person is not related to him at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Wal-Mart is working with police. They`ve dedicated one of their employees to searching through all the surveillance video from Friday morning to see if they can see the person who dropped the child off.
For now, police aren`t even sure what`s in the note is true. They`re checking the missing persons` database just in case.
The boy is now in foster care.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Sharon in Delaware. Hi, Sharon.
SHARON, DELAWARE RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
SHARON: You know it`s very sad that she did this and it`s very -- it wasn`t really the best choice to drop him off at a Wal-Mart but don`t you think in the long run that it`s better that the child is now in foster care and not with a parent this desperate, has no means, and maybe forced into an abusive situation or someone that couldn`t care for their child because they`re under so much poverty and pressure?
GRACE: Well, I think that`s extrapolating a lot of facts. The child appears to be well cared for and well nourished. He had a backpack full of sippy cups and supplies, toys as well.
And to you, Ray Giudice and Doug Burns -- you know, we`re making a lot of excuses for this mom. But any -- even a robot from Mars would know you don`t abandon your child, Ray Giudice.
GIUDICE: Well, Nancy, I agree. But listen, the safe haven statute does not apply here, will not protect her. But I`m going to argue that the spirit of the safe haven law might help her out.
She did -- what I believe under desperate circumstances did the best she could to ensure that this child.
GRACE: The best she could.
GIUDICE: . got to a safe situation.
GRACE: Doug Burns, she left him alone in a Wal-Mart. Do you agree with Giudice?
BURNS: No, not necessarily. I think you can definitely say that she took the wrong course of action. But I`ll tell you what, there`s some immigration policy overtones, too, because she didn`t want to get kicked out of the country.
GRACE: Well, you`ve assumed that she`s illegal to help her with her defense. We`ll find out what the truth is.
But let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Bradley Skelton, 40, Gordonville, Missouri, killed, Iraq. Coming out of retirement to enlist for a second tour. Awarded the Army Commendation Medal, Army Achievement Medal and National Defense Medal. A firefighter in his hometown. Loves hunting, fishing, leaves behind a grieving family, three uncles, an aunt, sister Carmen.
Bradley Skelton, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for inviting all of us into your home. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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