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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Unqualified Support for NAFTA; Salmonella is Still Spreading; Broken Borders with new Tactics; E-Voting Backlash; Obama Changes Mind; Illegal Immigration; CNN Hero
Aired June 20, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Thanks, Wolf.
Tonight Senator McCain trying to earn the title of Mr. Free Trade, telling Canadians today to have no doubt that America will honor its commitments if he is elected. Tonight the FDA finally sending investigators into the fields to trace the source of contaminated tomatoes in Florida and Mexico. Why did hundreds of people have to be sickened before the FDA acted?
New challenges to building a fence along our border with Mexico, illegal aliens stealing the equipment used to build it, all of that, all the day's news and a lot more with an independent perspective straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Friday, June 20. Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Senator McCain today pandering to business special interest groups with his unqualified support for NAFTA, but the senator didn't deliver his pro-free trade pitch in this country where millions of jobs have been lost as a result of those agreements. Instead he went to Canada to talk to their business elite.
And Senator Obama today also pandering for votes in Florida trying to convince ethnocentric special interest groups there that he should have their votes.
Our coverage tonight begins with Dana Bash with the McCain campaign in of all places Ottawa -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, John McCain's visit here to Canada was quite unusual. It was a campaign trip where the candidate insisted it wasn't about politics.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): No, this isn't a battleground state. It's Canada.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There aren't any electoral votes to be won up here in the middle of a presidential election. BASH: Before his visit, advisers called this a chance to establish differences with Barack Obama on NAFTA, the U.S. trade agreement with Canada and Mexico. He did, subtly.
MCCAIN: Threatening to abrogate an agreement that has increased trade and prosperity is nothing more than retreating behind protectionist walls.
BASH: That was intended as a shot at Obama's rhetoric during the Democratic primaries against the agreement.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't think NAFTA has been good for America. And I never have.
BASH: But in Canada, McCain refused to really engage.
MCCAIN: This is not a political campaign trip.
BASH: Surreal, since at the same time McCain's campaign was seizing on the day's theme, firing off e-mails on what appeared to be an Obama change in tone on NAFTA. Suggesting to "Fortune" magazine his anti-NAFTA rhetoric during the primaries was overheated. In Florida, Obama tried to clarify his stance on NAFTA.
OBAMA: It didn't have enforceable labor and environmental agreements in that agreement.
BASH: Back in Ottawa where the candidate who crossed the border to talk trade just wouldn't go there.
MCCAIN: I cannot here. I can as soon as I return to the United States. But that would then lend a political bent to this visit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct me if I am wrong, this is a trip that was put together and executed by your presidential campaign not your Senate office, so how is it not political?
MCCAIN: Because we didn't feel it was appropriate for the taxpayers, while I am the nominee of my party, to pay for a trip that would have accrued to the cost of the taxpayers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCCAIN: Now McCain often points to his extensive experience traveling around the world as a senator as one of the reasons why he thinks voters should elect him. He said today that he is going to continue traveling abroad during the presidential campaign, but if his trip here to Canada was any example, it's a pretty tough task for a candidate to travel anywhere during the heat of the campaign and insist it is not about politics -- Lou.
DOBBS: But at the same time he would have been roundly criticized, Dana, would he not, if he had been standing on Canadian soil engaging in presidential politics?
BASH: Well it's a possibility and from his perspective, clearly a probability and what his campaign said today, Lou, is that from his perspective he is old school unlike some politicians that you have seen lately. He abides by the adage that politics from his perspective still should end at the water's edge or in this case, in the northern border. Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much -- Dana Bash from Ottawa.
Well Senator McCain certainly working to earn the title Mr. Free Trade. In addition to his enthusiastic support for NAFTA, the senator also voted for all sorts of trade deals. Voting for trade deals with Oman (ph), Singapore, Chile, Vietnam, Central American nations and African nations. And just in case there is any doubt, back in December, Senator McCain said he would seek deals with more countries saying, "I'm the biggest free marketer and free trader you will ever see."
Senator McCain's position on free trade and its impact on working people in this country and our middle-class shouldn't be much of a surprise when we consider just who's giving the senator economic advice, none other than Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett Packard. She presided over the thousands of layoffs at Hewlett Packard and was ultimately fired herself, but not before she received a $21 million severance package and more than $500,000 in mortgage assistance. And it was Carly Fiorina who defended outsourcing of American middle-class jobs to chief overseas labor markets by saying, "there is no job that is America's God-given right anymore."
Senator McCain is trying to have it both ways on the issue of illegal immigration as well. He's doing it by pandering of course to ethnocentric interest groups. He assured in Chicago, Hispanic leaders at a late-night meeting that he would help push through legislation giving immigration reform a top priority, giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens.
Rosanna Pulido, a Republican of Hispanic origin was at the meeting and she was troubled by many of the things Senator McCain had to say. She joins us tonight from Chicago.
Good to have you with us.
ROSANNA PULIDO, MINUTEMAN ILLINOID PROJECT: Thanks, Lou. It is a privilege.
DOBBS: This meeting, the McCain campaign objecting to the reports that it was secret. Was it secret?
PULIDO: It was private. It was a private meeting.
DOBBS: Right. And who, who was there? What group, what umbrella?
PULIDO: Well, the Republican Hispanic Assembly was one of the sponsors of it. And there was a lot of different people including Illinois State Senator Martin Sandoval, who I know to be a Democrat.
DOBBS: Right. And what did the senator say? I mean, what is the point of this meeting? He had said to us all, for months that, he had learned, one thing in the campaign and that was border security first. In this meeting he said something quite differently, apparently?
PULIDO: That's correct. I was hopeful hearing that John McCain got it one day he got it that we want enforcement first. And so I was hopeful going to the meeting, but all I heard was the mantra was comprehensive immigration reform. That to me as an illegal immigration activist is a code word for amnesty. The crowd cheered every time he mentioned those words, those code words. And he also made a statement that did you know that Spanish was the first language spoken in my home state of Arizona before English. The crowd went crazy.
DOBBS: You know the senator is absolutely wrong. Spanish was not the first language spoken in the state of Arizona. In point of fact there were a host of Indian dialects, native American dialects spoken there for hundreds of years before there was any Spanish spoken in Arizona, so somebody needs to counsel the good senator when he is pandering to ethnocentric interest groups.
He probably offended a great deal, great number of people who are Native Americans, from his home state. Don't you think?
PULIDO: Absolutely and he offended me as a conservative, a Republican, I wish he would pander to me as a conservative. That's what I would like, a little pandering our way. But as far as I'm concerned, John McCain is kicking the conservatives to the curb.
DOBBS: Well we thank you very much, Rosanna Pulido for being here.
PULIDO: Thanks, Lou.
DOBBS: We, by the way, asked the McCain campaign to clarify what the senator was saying and what he meant and the purpose of such a dialogue if you will. They had no response or reply.
Up next here, new and misguided attacks against me and my position on illegal immigration. This time it's not Barack Obama -- it's the mayor of New York City. And the pro-business amnesty business elites that he loves to travel with. I will have a few thoughts for him later here.
And new challenges to the efforts to build a fence along our border with Mexico. We'll tell you what illegal aliens are doing. Oh, goodness, to slow the progress.
And the FDA is finally sending inspectors to farms in Florida and Mexico. You see they've decided now after more than two weeks to look for the source of those contaminated tomatoes. We'll tell you what on earth took them so long. Stay with us. It just gets, as they say, better and better from here. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The salmonella outbreak is still spreading through the country tonight. More than 160 new cases reported. The Food and Drug Administration tonight says the outbreak is related to tomatoes and that those tomatoes most likely, most likely come from Florida or Mexico.
As Louise Schiavone now reports, the FDA is finally, finally sending inspectors to Mexico and Florida.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUISE SCHIAVONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Add more victims to the nation's salmonella outbreak.
VOICE OF DR. IAN WILLIAMS, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: Since April there now have been 552 persons identified with salmonella St. Paul (ph) with the same genetic fingerprint.
SCHIAVONE: The outbreak covers 32 states and Washington, D.C. with almost half of the cases from Texas. The Centers for Disease Control says considering unreported cases it is likely that thousands of people have been affected. Meanwhile, the Food and Drug Administration says it is ready to put inspectors on the ground.
VOICE OF DR. DAVID ACHESON, ASSOC. COMMISSIONER OF FOODS, FDA: The FDA is sending teams of multidisciplinary experts to both Mexico and Florida this weekend with its goal of conducting joint inspections on the farms and throughout the distribution chain.
SCHIAVONE: The nation's billion dollar a year tomato farming business has lost tens of millions of dollars in the outbreak, which so far has not triggered a product recall from the FDA.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you certain, given the status of this investigation, that the source of the salmonella St. Paul outbreak is in fact tomatoes? You don't have a sample yet that you are working from, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not have a positive salmonella in tomatoes.
SCHIAVONE: To this former director of FDA import operations that doesn't make sense.
CARL NIELSEN, RET. DIR. OF IMPORT OPERATIONS, FDA: What do we know about the conditions? What do we know about the water? Little information is known. The government has the tendency then to more or less swoop everybody into the same group, make everybody suffer.
SCHIAVONE: The CDC insists it does not have a list of possible sources in this outbreak. It believes tomatoes are the culprit. Although so far no testing has turned up the salmonella strain on any tomatoes.
(END VIDEOTAPE) SCHIAVONE: Lou, authorities say the problem may not exist on a farm but in a packing shed, a warehouse or a distribution center. And working with Homeland Security, they have not ruled out the possibility of a deliberate contamination, but the FDA stresses at this point there is no evidence of that -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well there is not for that matter any evidence of salmonella. I mean this is -- it is absolutely confounding to think that these are intelligent, presumably educated, well-informed, well- meaning people running the FDA.
SCHIAVONE: Well there is evidence of salmonella, as we know, Lou, but we don't have evidence, we don't have hard evidence...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHIAVONE: ... off of a tomato right.
DOBBS: And this is -- you know, OK, let's back up here. The FDA doesn't know where the salmonella came from. The FDA doesn't have any positive evidence in a tomato of salmonella. They don't know anything about the distribution system; they don't know anything about the packing operations, the farms themselves, are only this weekend sending inspectors into the field. You will recall I suggested they might do that here yesterday, might go to the tomato farms in Mexico and Florida to find out. Now they're saying that this outbreak its origins are in both Florida and Mexico? That defies credulity.
SCHIAVONE: They say that there are possible links to farms in Florida and/or Mexico. So what they want to find out through their trace back system and through examining the soil and the farming conditions I guess in both places on particular farms in both locations is what were the growing conditions? What was the path? Did they perhaps, these crops from Mexico and Florida, cross at some point and wind up together in a distribution shed or a warehouse or packing center?
DOBBS: What are the implications, as you report or in the FDA reports, half of these cases, more than 500 cases that we know of and they suspected that what is the ratio 50 to each one reported...
SCHIAVONE: There are 30 or more for each one, some say 40...
DOBBS: Thirty or more. OK, 30, 40, whatever the number is.
SCHIAVONE: Thousands. Thousands and thousands.
DOBBS: Thousands, but we know the 500 definitively, definitely...
SCHIAVONE: Five hundred fifty-two.
DOBBS: Those, half of them are in the state of Texas.
SCHIAVONE: Two hundred and sixty-five from the state of Texas.
DOBBS: What is the explanation by the FDA, the Centers for Disease Control for the fact that there are so many within one state?
SCHIAVONE: They say that...
DOBBS: And how would Florida get involved in a Texas situation?
SCHIAVONE: Right. There are -- look, there are just so many questions about this. And they themselves say that it would be almost impossible, not utterly impossible, but highly unlikely for this salmonella St. Paul with the same genetic fingerprint to exist both in Mexico and Florida. They just don't know.
DOBBS: Then why did that make that statement tonight?
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Well I'm asking you a question -- I know you've asked this question a hundred times of them. It's terrific reporting, but this has got -- I mean this is just unbelievable. Sheer brazen incompetence. Thank you very much. Louise Schiavone. We will of course have more as it becomes available. Keep digging. We appreciate it.
This is the country's, by the way, 13th salmonella outbreak over the course of the past 18 years. Florida is the nation's top tomato producer and industry experts estimate this outbreak has already cost Florida alone $40 million in lost tomato production. The Department of Health and Human Services estimates that this outbreak will cost the national tomato industry more than 100 million.
And there still isn't any hard evidence that the salmonella is in the tomatoes. This salmonella outbreak underscores the FDA's utter inability to protect the American consuming public.
The FDA is desperately short of both resources and funding and as Lisa Sylvester now reports, that is very simply putting American lives in danger.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The FDA office in charge of food safety has had its workload increase more than 20 percent in recent years. But the FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition instead of getting more money has had its staffing and budget slashed. According to the Government Accountability Office, their office was cut 14 percent from 2003 to 2006.
Most of the cuts came in the field, those in charge of inspecting the food consumers eat. Fewer inspectors means fewer inspections. The GAO says in 2001 there were 211 inspections of foreign food companies. Last year only 96. But the problems for the agency date back even further.
BYRON RICHARDS, FIGHT FOR YOUR HEALTH: Well really, the FDA mandate which is to protect the public, especially regarding the safety of drugs and medications has really taken a slide in the past 15 years. SYLVESTER: Beginning in 1992, drug companies began paying a user fee to the FDA as congressional funding remained flat.
REP. ROSA DELAURO (D), CONNECTICUT: They have advisory panels at the FDA. And if you take a look at them, they are filled with conflicts of interest, of people who have various ties with the industry.
SYLVESTER: Consumer watchdog Public Citizen says the FDA has been slow to pull problem drugs like Vioxx off the market. A drug that is still being sold in the United States as Propoxyphene, also known as Darvon (ph) and Darvocet (ph). Public Citizen says more than 2,000 people have accidentally died taking the drug since 1981, many due to heart failure.
SIDNEY WOLF, PUBLIC CITIZEN: The leaders in the Food and Drug Administration are perfectly aware of how dangerous and how minimally effective this drug is and it's inexcusable that they haven't taken this action long ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The FDA when asked about not fulfilling its mandate pointed out that the administration is amending its fiscal year 2009 request to include an additional $275 million for the agency. And that the FDA is moving to fill an additional 1,300 staff positions -- Lou.
DOBBS: Unbelievable.
Thank you very much, Lisa -- Lisa Sylvester.
Up next here, country of origin labeling might have limited the scope of this outbreak. So why isn't it working? Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro will join me and increasingly brazen efforts to cross our border with Mexico, we'll have that report as well and a great deal more.
We'll be right back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up next, New York's Mayor Michael Bloomberg attacks me on the issue of illegal immigration. I will have a few words for the mayor here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New challenges tonight for local governments and private citizens trying to secure our border with Mexico. A job the federal government has failed to do. There is evidence that illegal aliens have broken through two layers of border fence and stolen equipment used to build, you guessed it, the border fence.
Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Texas the border patrol has intercepted more than 400 big rigs smuggling either drugs or illegal aliens so far this year.
GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: The Mexican crime syndicates have changed their tactics. They're losing money. They're looking for new loopholes to exploit. And their latest target are truckers.
WIAN: So Perry and the border patrol are launching "Operation Texas Hold 'Em" to revoke the commercial driver's license of any truck driver convicted of carrying an illegal load at the border. In Arizona, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio is under fire for his aggressive crackdown on illegal aliens.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We think that he needs to respect and protect civil rights. Not violate them.
WIAN: This week critics tried unsuccessfully to persuade county supervisors to strip Arpaio's funding.
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZ.: For this sheriff enforcing all the laws of this land and this county including the illegal immigration laws. I took an oath of office to do that. I will continue to do that.
WIAN: And in California, from a private security group operating near the border town of Boulevard, what looks like evidence of brazen illegal crossers. Photos taken by a rancher Wednesday and given to CNN show a hole cut in the security firm's fence just north of the government's border fence. From the other side heavy equipment used by the National Guard and private contractors to build new fence and improve border access roads.
Footprints show someone crossed the border by crawling under a hole beneath the government's fence. Then they stole batteries and a radio from the heavy equipment and took them into Mexico. Here a National Guardsman and a mechanic inspect then repair the damage. The private fence was also fixed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The private border security contractor says the theft took at least an hour, and is clear evidence even two layers of fencing is no substitute for a visible presence by border patrol agents -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well that may be, but you know, I don't know if we can go back to that, that fence that you are showing there. But that contractor is building a very light fence. That isn't the double fence that the border patrol and Department of Homeland Security are supposed to be installing. I mean that...
WIAN: Lou that is a private contractor that's working for a rancher in the area.
(CROSSTALK) DOBBS: But you showed a picture of the government's fence. And that's still lightweight fencing. It is not the double fence that is supposed to be being built by DHS.
WIAN: Absolutely, that's far east of where the double fence...
DOBBS: Oh so let's be very...
WIAN: ... that has been built.
DOBBS: Right. Let's be very clear about what we are talking about here. Because that fence would barely keep out a coyote, and by that I meant the four-legged kind.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: You know this is -- it's just dumber and dumber. Somebody should make a movie, dumber and dumber.
All right, thanks a lot. Casey Wian, appreciate it.
WIAN: OK.
DOBBS: Up next, pro amnesty business elites and the mayor of New York they're attacking me about our reporting on the illegal immigration crisis. I'll have a few words, if I may, of response later here.
And Senator Obama tonight telling his supporters Republicans will try to make you afraid of me. And over half of America's voters will use paper ballots this November. We're going back to the future when it comes to integrity of our electoral process. We'll tell why in our special report next.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion. Here again, Mr. Independent, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Tonight's top stories -- the FDA finally sending its investigators into fields to trace the source of contaminated tomatoes suspected to be in either Florida or Mexico. More than 500 people have been sickened; one death has been attributed to the salmonella outbreak.
Senator McCain today, pandering to business special interest groups with unqualified support for free trade and NAFTA. But the senator didn't deliver his pro-free trade speech in this country he delivered his pitch to business elites in Canada.
Rising floodwaters tonight. Those floodwaters broke through more levees along the Mississippi River, the waters flooding farms and towns north of St. Louis, Missouri. More than two dozen levees have failed. The flooding in six states has killed 24 people, some 40,000 people have been evacuated from their homes and forecasters say the river could begin receding from its flood -- flood stage and crest by tomorrow.
We have been reporting for years on this broadcast about unreliability of electronic voting. Now, an increasing number of states are taking action. They're replacing those electronic voting machines with paper ballots. And as Kitty Pilgrim now reports more than half the people in this country will be voting in the presidential election on paper ballots.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A victory for voters. In Trenton, New Jersey, today, a court ruled that accuracy tests on paperless, electronic voting machines can be made public. The voting machine company, Sequoia, argued the information was a trade secret.
PENNY VENETIS, ATTORNEY: The courts had to step in to say it's time now to examine the voting machines to determine whether or not they count votes accurately.
PILGRIM: After repeated electronic voting failures, 28 states are returning to paper ballots, according to an activist group who wants a return to paper ballots. According to that group, in this year's presidential election, 61 percent of voters will be using paper ballot systems, up from 35 percent in 2004. But close to 20 states are still using electronic voting machines without a paper trail for the upcoming presidential election. Pennsylvania, Ohio, Colorado are potential trouble spots. One of the most problem states has switched back to paper ballots.
DAVID DILL, VERIFIED VOTING.ORG: For the longest time, Florida was dominated by electronic voting, but they made a sudden transition last year when they passed a law requiring paper ballots and it's going to be a big success story. I think that Florida is likely not to be the embarrassment of the 2008 election.
PILGRIM: The system of choice these days, optical scan machines, a paper ballot is scanned by an electronic device and then kept in case a recount is needed.
JOHN BONIFAZ, VOTERACTION.ORG: Only a paper ballot based system will give people the confidence there is transparency and accountability with the process and that the process can be recounted or audited, which is critical for ensuring the integrity of the elections.
PILGRIM: Repeated tests by prominent universities has shown machines without a paper trail cannot be counted accurately.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Now, while this is a victory in New Jersey today, and the public will have access to the accuracy testing of voting machines, New Jersey will not have paper ballots in time for the upcoming presidential election -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, I think we've also got to remind everybody that, when we saw the fellow looking at the ballot, that was a paper ballot.
PILGRIM: That was.
DOBBS: Causing all that trouble in Florida.
PILGRIM: That was a bad paper ballot and then they went to electronic because of that and that's when they had even more trouble.
DOBBS: Well, it's -- seems like there is just a lot of trouble when it comes to figuring out how to cast a ballot in some quarters of Florida and other states. We hope that that won't be a problem this year. Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
Well, the backlash against those e-voting machines has prompted some states such as Tennessee to pass laws requiring a paper trail for any type of voting. Unfortunately, Tennessee along with New York and Maryland won't have the paper ballots either. Not until after the 2008 presidential election. In the swing state of Pennsylvania, as Kitty just reported, most of the machines are electronic and have no paper trail.
Up next, Mayor Bloomberg, well, criticizing me on the issue of illegal immigration. What is the mayor thinking about?
And stunning remarks from Senator Obama tonight about whether he is black enough or too black. Three of the best political minds in the country join me for all of this and more. Remember this is going to be that elevated contest between a Republican and a Democrat for the White House.
And the leading member of Congress joins me, she says that the FDA is putting the interest of big business ahead of the safety of American consumers. Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro joins me here next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Senator Obama, tonight, pandering to ethnocentric special interest groups and others. Obama is in Florida. He's there trying to win over the state's special interest groups, the state Hispanic population, the state's Jewish population. New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, also in Florida supporting the senator before a Jewish group in Boca Raton. At that meeting in Florida, by the way, Mayor Bloomberg became the latest official to try to distort my position on illegal immigration. The mayor blasted me when he was asked about illegal immigration. And this is what he said:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), NEW YORK: We could solve the problem. What it needs is elected officials to stand up and stop this business and say to Lou Dobbs: what you are saying is just not true. I can only tell you in New York we have 500,000 undocumented, they have a lower crime rate than people who are here legally and have lived here for generations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Well, now, Mayor Bloomberg wasn't very specifically about what I was wrong about. So, let me be very specific. He's wrong about both his numbers and his statements about illegal aliens in his city because no one keeps track of them, no one has any numbers. He did have a response after I had a rather heated response to the mayor's comments. And I want to do this in the spirit of, well, civility.
Mayor Bloomberg's office said, quote, speaking for the mayor I presume, "Lou's an old friend and he knows that I've said many times that our country needs to control our borders and end illegal immigration, but the only way to do that, without badly hurting our economy, is to recognize the need our nation's economy has for more immigrants and to fix the broken system that is keeping so many talented and industrious individuals out."
Well, I don't think we can argue much about that. The reality is that -- illegal immigration is a serious burden on taxpayers in this country. It is a violation of our laws and it has a huge cultural impact and frankly, border security is essential first, no matter what. Senator McCain now says, which is what he said last, I believe, as he panderers to various groups.
So, Michael Bloomberg, Mr. Mayor, we'll just -- you know, we'll let this one pass. I'm just in such a good mood tonight.
Well, it's not just politicians who criticize me on this critical issue of immigration, the pro-amnesty business elites and those that are pushing their agenda also distort my record and the record of this broadcast. And Jason Riley, a member of the editorial board of the "Wall Street Journal," yesterday, spoke at a conference co-hosted by our friends, my good friends, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON RILEY, WALL STREET JOURNAL: I mean, a guy like Lou Dobbs makes a living railing against illegal immigration. Many don't know he has gone before Congress and testified against high skilled immigrants, legal immigrants. Lou Dobbs is anti-immigrant. I mean, but he -- he presents himself as anti-illegal immigrants.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Pretty cagey, I mean, don't you think. You know, Mr. Riley, you're a complete idiot. The fact of the matter is, that you don't have a single iota of fact to support anything you stated. I have never said anything about legal immigrants, and point of fact I have clearly and unequivocally, supported higher levels of immigration into this country. You, sir, are a disgrace as far as I'm concerned. That is utter, utter lies that are falling from your lips. And you should apologize to me and to the folks you were talking to. And admittedly they are the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, but even they should be treated better than you treated them.
Well our poll tonight, the question is: Do you believe Mayor Bloomberg should spend his time fixing public schools and potholes in New York rather than boosting Senator Obama, for example, in Florida? We'd like to hear from you. Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com, we'll have those results here, later.
Joining me now, three of the best political minds. Daniel Henninger, deputy editor of the "Wall Street Journal's" editorial page. Pulitzer Prize winning columnist, the "New York Daily News" and CNN contributor, Michael Goodwin. Democratic strategist, CNN contributor, Robert Zimmerman. Robert is a national Democratic committeeman. He is a big supporter, I understand now, of Senator Barack Obama.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC COMMITTEEMAN: Proudly so.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: I am referring of course to the fact that Mr. Zimmerman was a once, he once liked Senator Clinton, but no more.
ZIMMERMAN: I still like her very much.
DOBBS: Well tell me what's going on? I mean -- Senator Obama doesn't want to hold himself to the highest standards, that is keep on the issue of public financing?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, if it was public financing, then there'd be a different argument.
DOBBS: Oh, so he didn't break his word?
ZIMMERMAN: No, he changed his mind and I'm proud he did, actually.
DOBBS: Oh, you are?
ZIMMERMAN: Because, I think the system is better served by 1.5 million contributors...
DOBBS: So, all those other Democratic candidates and Republican candidates who were in the system in public financing of campaigns since Watergate were a bunch of idiots? That Obama now suddenly...
ZIMMERMAN: No, I think he's changed the dynamic by cutting out lobbyists, excluding PAC money from the process...
DOBBS: So, did he or did he not break his word?
ZIMMERMAN: He changed his mind. I think it's a bit different from John McCain flip-flopping and changing his...
DOBBS: Oh, please, we'll get to your talking points later.
ZIMMERMAN: Oh, excuse me. MICHAEL GOODWIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well look, I think Obama is risking something here more. I understand, of course, he's doing it because he can get more money this way, that's all it is. It's about the amount of money not where it comes from.
DOBBS: As Candy Crowley would say, "duh."
GOODWIN: Yeah, right, so that's -- but, I think for him, the issue -- Obama has done a number of things where he's gone around talking, he ran the whole candidate race against Clinton as the candidate of change, change you can believe in, not like your ordinary politician. This is a very ordinary politician thing to do. So, I think that he hit to his image...
DOBBS: Your typical politician.
GOODWIN: There you go.
DAN HENNINGER, WALL STREET JOURNAL: And I agree with Michael because, I mean, his whole persona has been built around the idea that he was, you know, different and, in some ways the perfect candidate. And this is really a chip in the facade. And I think really the problem that it is going to create for him is less than voters than with the media. And the media is going to become more open, now, to, I think, to criticism that he's a traditional politician. And in many ways I think he's vulnerable to that charge.
DOBBS: The national media is so in the tank for Barack Obama. Look, I'm an Independent populous, I really, you know, one of these two is going to win the presidency and I'm not going to cheer no matter what happens, all right? But the idea of watching national news organizations across the board, electronic and print, going in the tank for Obama is just silly. I mean, having people say this is a movement instead of a campaign. I mean the man is -- it's an absurdity. Aren't you embarrassed?
ZIMMERMAN: I'm not a member of the national media, but if I was, I certainly would be.
No look, I said this during the primary process. I felt the media's conduct was, I thought in many ways, reprehensible and judgmental, I thought it was wrong. But that being said...
(CROSSTALK)
Now I'm supporting Barack Obama, I can adjust to it. No, it doesn't change the reality. The media's conduct, I thought, towards this campaign has been reprehensible.
DOBBS: Oh my goodness.
GOODWIN: Well, I think it's one of the problems that we have in this country, speaking just in generally, that we don't have one single standard on anything. So, Obama can flip on this and Democrats...
(CROSSTALK)
They're fine with that. But if George Bush did this or McCain did this, they'd be...
ZIMMERMAN: I hope not...
DOBBS: Excuse me. Just a second, if you don't mind. McCain is -- McCain is sitting in Ottawa, Canada, promising that he's going to keep those free trade agreements flowing. He is- having a secret, private, meeting with Hispanic leaders saying exactly the opposite of what he's been saying publicly, that security first on the issue of illegal immigration. I mean he's a pandering fool, too.
HENNINGER: Well, I think on this campaign finance thing, boy has he been hoist on his own petard. I mean, McCain-Feingold his law. He's committed to taking $84 million. Obama is going to raise at least $265 million, maybe twice as much money...
ZIMMERMAN: The difference, Dan, is that John McCain broke his own law, McCain-Feingold, during the process when he accepted matching funds and then decided unilaterally to withdraw from the system. But, the bigger issue is if you decide that public financing, this decision is the measure of the man, so be it. But John McCain reversing his position...
HENNINGER: If what Obama has done has killed the campaign finance law, I'm all for it. Let's go to a system where you have totally private contributions...
ZIMMERMAN: Just the opposite. Until you have public financing of campaigns, and real public financing, you'll never have a reform in the system.
DOBBS: If you don't mind -- I -- my question was about illegal immigration and Senator McCain has a public face and a private face, quite in contrast and contradictory. Does this bother you at all?
HENNINGER: Not at all.
DOBBS: I don't think so.
HENNINGER: It's not an issue.
DOBBS: You know Jason Riley, by the way.
(LAUGHTER)
HENNINGER: Yeah, well, Jason's a colleague and friend of mine. But, it's just not an issue in the campaign, Lou. I mean, there's no way you're going to make it an issue because Obama is not going to do it from the Democratic side and John McCain isn't either.
DOBBS: Well, I wouldn't suggest that these two would have the guts to address real issues or represent the American people. You know, that rule of the majority is sort of an antiquated idea in the concept of a Democracy. We really want, given the journal's lights, we want to have corporate America dominate the political and electoral process and special interests. You know, as many as possible ethnocentric interests so everybody would be happy. Is that sort of a perfect world for you?
HENNINGER: That would not be a perfect world for me.
DOBBS: What would be the failing?
HENNINGER: Well, because we do not represent corporate interests at the "Wall Street Journal," we try to represent entrepreneurs and people pushing themselves up from the bottom and that would include immigrants.
DOBBS: Well, immigrants, yes. But, why would you complaint (ph) illegal aliens and immigrants?
HENNINGER: I didn't say anything about illegal aliens, I meant people like the ones working here in the restaurants in New York.
GOODWIN: Back to McCain, if I could. I think, I think John McCain showed his true colors on this issue last year in the Senate. I think he, he said he got it during the primary campaign when he had to. But, I think he has now effectively reverted to what he really believes, which is there should be amnesty, and sealing the borders is only part of it.
DOBBS: He also believes Spanish was spoken in Arizona before Native American dialects and languages.
ZIMMERMAN: Look, I disagree with both Senator Obama and Senator McCain, in terms of their approach to illegal immigration. I think it's worth noting, though, that at least Obama is up front on the record and McCain has this secret town hall meeting and excludes the members of the town from attending. This meeting he had in Chicago...
DOBBS: You mean like Senator Obama's chief economics adviser talking with the Canadian government suggesting that his statements on free trade were for political purposes, but that he didn't really mean it.
ZIMMERMAN: Here's the difference, Lou. Senator Obama was the first one to denounce what his representative said and said he was not there representing him. So, I think it is a dramatic difference.
DOBBS: All right.
GOODWIN: Well, but there's a similar point with the Iraqi foreign minster who said his conversations with Obama in private were different from what Obama has been saying on the campaign.
DOBBS: You know, we could do this, I think, all night long. What do you think?
(LAUGHTER)
HENNINGER: No doubt. DOBBS: Are you going to be excite about whoever wins?
HENNINGER: I will be excited if Obama wins for sure, because I think there will be significant changes in an upward directs in this country, it will not just be a turn of the political cycle.
GOODWIN: Absolutely, I think Obama is shaping up as the most liberal Democrat in a very long time.
ZIMMERMAN: I think both of you have got to get with it. It's not about liberal or conservative, it's about having an Independent president.
DOBBS: You know, this is the second time that you have argued vehemently with them while in total agreement.
ZIMMERMAN: Notice that, did you?
DOBBS: I did.
(LAUGHTER)
I don't know why. But I thank you for being here. Thank you very much, gentlemen, I appreciate it.
Coming up top of the hour the ELECTION CENTER with Wolf Blitzer.
Wolf, take it away, partner, at least for a second or two.
WOLF BLITZER, ELECTION CENTER: All right. Good work, guys. We have a lot of news coming up top of the hour. We're getting word just into the ELECTION CENTER about how much Senator Barack Obama has raised in the last month and it's quite a considerable sum. We're going to stand by for details.
Also, Senator Obama's controversial new warning. During an off- camera fundraiser he predicted the Republicans will try to scare voters by making an issue of his race. We've obtained an audio recording, we're going to play it for you so you can come to your own independent conclusion.
And a brand new bit of stage craft out there today, complete with a Latin motto. It is all ahead at the top of the hour right here in the ELECTION CENTER. Lou, back to you.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Wolf, looking forward to it.
Special interest groups helping prevent country of organ labeling on your food, one congresswoman trying to change all that, she's Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro here next. And "Heroes," our tribute to the men and women who serve this nation in uniform. Tonight you'll meet an Army major who led a Special Forces team battling a Taliban force 200 strong. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: Well, in the midst of the salmonella outbreak and the FDA's efforts to track down the source of that outbreak identifying tomatoes, country of organ labeling, the COOL Act, as it's called, has taken a new focus and importance in the discussion. It might have helped the FDA find the source of those tomatoes suspected. But food industry lobbyists, political special interests all have kept country of organ labeling from being enforced, although it has been in law since being passed and signed in 2002. Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro, believes the COOL should be enforced. She's also questioning the FDA response to this salmonella outbreak.
We're glad to have you with us.
REP ROSA DELAURO (D), CONNECTICUT: Glad to be with you, Lou.
DOBBS: You have been a long-time critic of -- let's start first with the FDA. I mean, we have been reporting and reporting on this. This agency is out of control, it seems utterly bereft of expertise, at least in its top levels of executives and officials. What in the world is going on with this agency?
DELAURO: Well, you said it right at the top echelon. There are a lot of good scientists, a lot of good people, and an agency that has been taken over by both politics and ideology. The fact is it's lost its way on its mission. This is a regulatory agency that doesn't want to regulate the industries that it's charged with doing.
DOBBS: Its leaders have presided over a decline in budget, a decline in staffing, a decline inspectors, and every possible resource necessary to, as you say, to regulate.
DELAURO: That's right. And it doesn't want the enforcement the capabilities doesn't want to use them.
DOBBS: Unbelievable.
DELAURO: And it has wreaked havoc on the food safety side and drug safety side.
DOBBS: No one has, as you've been a sharp and constant critic of the FDA, you have also been a sharp and constant supporter of the COOL act and no one has been a better advocate. Why in the world have, has Congress been unable to give that thing life and strength and power and put it to work?
DELAURO: Well, in 2002, in the farm bill there was country of organ labeling that was passed, it was a law which applied to beef, poultry, seafood. It has taken from 2002 to 2008 to implement. It's because of the industries involved, as you pointed out, and -- and I would just say a majority in the Congress at that time that was not interested in moving toward country labeling.
DOBBS: Are we going to see...
DELAURO: Yes, it is in this current farm bill which has been passed, which by the way the president vetoed, but was overridden in the House and in the Senate. And -- and we are going to have it in place by September 2008. I am just, put in my appropriations bill, $9.6 million to begin to carry it out. We also added to the poultry and fish and beef, we added produce, so that this issue of tomatoes or spinach, if...
DOBBS: American consumers are going to have...
DELAURO: Knowing where it comes from by 2008, September.
DOBBS: All I can say is thank you, congratulations. American consumers owe you a great debt, congresswoman, we appreciate it. Congresswoman Rosa DeLauro. Thank you very much for being here. Go get them.
DELAURO: Thank you. OK.
DOBBS: Still up, "Heroes," our tribute to the men and women who serve this nation in uniform. Tonight the story of a remarkable Green Beret. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: And now, "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women who are serving this nation in uniform all around the world. Tonight we introduce you to an Army major, Major Sheffield Ford. Major Ford led a courageous team of our Special Forces in Afghanistan. Their mission, to capture a Taliban commander and to protect an Afghan village. Philippa Holland with his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILIPPA HOLLAND, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Major Sheffield Ford is one of the U.S. Army's elite Special Forces, a Green Beret.
MAJ SHEFFIELD FORD, U.S. ARMY: Our primary mission is to go in and teach foreign countries, you know, how to protect themselves or how to establish themselves.
HOLLAND: Routinely assigned to cover Latin America, his unit, based out of Fort Bragg, was sent to Afghanistan in January of 2006.
FORD; When we got on the ground, you know, we knew right off the bat we needed to link up with our counterparts, our Afghan national army counterparts and start assessing what their level is.
HOLLAND: Intelligence gathering was a top priority.
FORD: We used to go out on trips and we would stop and, there would be a village that we would come across and sit down and, drink tea and eat bread and talk to not just the elders, but we walked through the village and talk with the people, too.
HOLLAND: Their mission June 22, to capture or kill a Taliban commander threatening a village southwest of Kandahar City. The immediately established a security perimeter in the village, and an informant told them the Taliban planned to attack at sunset. Ford instructed his soldiers to prepare for battle.
FORD: The sun had just dropped and, I mean, as it dropped, it was -- I mean, all hell broke lose.
HOLLAND: They were outnumbered and surrounded by a well-trained and well-equipped Taliban force, 200 strong.
FORD: That's something that we trained, you know, a long time in order to accomplish and to watch our enemy doing it to us and attacking us, said something. It said that we were against a formidable force, here.
HOLLAND: For seventeen hours, over two days, Ford led his team of U.S. soldiers, Afghan national army and interpreters, through an intense, exhausting gun battle -- 120 enemy combatants where killed, two U.S. soldiers lost their lives. In the end, the battle prevented a Taliban attack on Kandahar City. For his heroic actions and courageous leadership, Major Ford was awarded a Silver Star.
FORD: I'm honored that my fellow soldiers and my superiors feel that I earned it, but I feel like I just did my job. I mean I was the commander on the ground; I was responsible for those people.
HOLLAND: Philippa Holland, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: His Special Forces team for a single battle in Afghanistan, among the awards and honors, they've received, a Distinguished Service Cross, four Silver Stars, seven Bronze Stars for Valor.
Our congratulations to those brave men and women and our thanks.
And a reminder to please join me on the radio Monday through Friday for THE LOU DOBBS SHOW. Monday my guests will include Ben Smith of Politico.com, for all the latest on the presidential race, Ira Mehlman of the Federation for American Immigration Reform. Go to loudobbsradio.com for local listings for THE LOU DOBBS SHOW.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thank you for watching. Goodnight from New York. The ELECTION CENTER with Wolf Blitzer begins right now.
