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Nancy Grace
Pregnant Army Specialist Found Dead in North Carolina Motel
Aired June 24, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. At this hour, police investigating the death of a 7-months-pregnant highly decorated Marine (SIC), her body just identified, Specialist Megan Lynn Touma identified a full two days after her body discovered, after a foul odor detected. No cause of death as of yet on Touma, the 22-year-old specialist with the 19th Replacement Company, Touma now the second pregnant soldier to die in North Carolina this year alone. Eight-months-pregnant Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach also found dead near Camp LeJeune in January. Tonight, who murdered 23-year-old Megan Lynn Touma in a North Carolina motel, Touma seven months pregnant?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just in -- cops investigating the suspicious death of another pregnant soldier. Specialist Megan Lynn Touma`s body was just found in a Fayetteville motel room, the Fayetteville Police Department calling the death suspicious, and authorities say they do not know the cause. The 23-year-old dental specialist from Kentucky was seven months pregnant. She is the second pregnant service member to die in North Carolina this year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: Mommy parties hearty on root beer and Seagram`s until her blood alcohol is nearly twice the legal limit. But Mommy`s cocktails turn deadly when she flips a car down a creek bank. She lives, of course. Her 6-year-old son, wearing no seatbelt, dies. When a sympathetic judge allows her one day out of jail to attend the little boy`s funeral, Mommy defies the judge`s order and heads straight to a local bar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erin Howard (ph) was charged with involuntary manslaughter and DUI in a car crash that caused the death of her 6-year-old son, Samuel (ph). A local judge gave Howard permission to leave for 24 hours to attend her son`s funeral. But instead of heading back to the prison after the services, she went to the bar instead. Howard is now being held in Butler County jail awaiting extradition proceedings. Police came and arrested Howard after her son`s father allegedly told authorities she was at a local bar. Now Howard faces an additional charge of escape, which can only add to the potential jail time she already faces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news. Authorities say they are investigating the suspicious death of a seven-months-pregnant Marine, her body just identified.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news tonight. Authorities investigating the death of a pregnant soldier stationed at Ft. Bragg in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Twenty-three-year-old Megan Lynn Touma, seven months pregnant, was identified two days after her body was found in a motel room that started to smell, police tonight calling the death suspicious but said they do not know the cause. Touma just arrived at Ft. Bragg less than two weeks ago from Germany. She is the second pregnant service member to die this year in North Carolina after Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That body just identified. Apparently, the specialist`s body had been there 48 hours there in a North Carolina motel, only detected after a foul odor was noticed by others, seven months pregnant. This is now the second -- the second -- pregnant soldier right there this year alone, since January.
Straight out to Kevin Miller, investigative reporter with KDKA radio. Kevin, what happened?
KEVIN MILLER, KDKA RADIO: Nancy, right now, the Fayetteville police - - that is the police department right outside of North Carolina charged with the jurisdiction in this case -- are investigating this incident involving this specialist who was murdered at this hotel. Apparently, we have reports of an odor emanating from the hotel room. Police went in, found the body. And right now, they call the cause death suspicious and they are investigating right now.
There are a lot of motels around Fayetteville, around Ft. Bragg, so again, this isn`t just one hotel. It`s a highly populated area filled with soldiers and transients. This young specialist actually was just home two weeks when this occurred.
GRACE: And we are getting information as we go to air. We are just learning about this. The body has just been identified in this case. A seven-months-pregnant soldier`s body has just been identified at a local North Carolina motel. It wasn`t even realized that she was dead in her room until an odor emanated from the room. Police now believe she has been dead about 48 hours.
We are taking your calls live and bringing you the news as we get it. We do know this. Touma was highly decorated -- the Army Achievement Medal, the Good Conduct Medal, the National Defense Service Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal and the Army Service Ribbon -- highly decorated. Seven months pregnant soldier Touma, 23 years old, now found dead.
Now out to Eben Brown with Metro Networks. Eben, what more can you tell us?
EBEN BROWN, METRO NETWORKS: Well, we can tell you now that so far, the police have -- well, they haven`t released a cause of death, but they are saying that this is suspicious, that her death was not natural, that her death wasn`t something that happened by accident, that something or someone caused her death.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Debbie in Kentucky. Hi, Debbie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, I love your show. And I`m so proud that you have your twins and they`re doing fine.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Second of all, did she report any boyfriend, like, abuse or anything before this happened?
GRACE: You know, Debbie in Kentucky, that`s the first place police look.
Out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, explain.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, we don`t know too much right now, Nancy, very early on in the investigation. But the Fayetteville police have most likely -- if they haven`t, they should be -- have already contacted the military police there at Ft. Bragg, and also Army CID, Army Criminal Investigation Division, will get involved in this investigation because she`s only been here since June 12.
And we don`t know right now who the father of this baby is. Is this person another service member? We don`t know right now. But these are things they`re also looking at, as well as at this Fairfield (ph) Inn, where she was found, taking a look at surveillance videos from there and other surrounding motels, since there are quite a few in that area, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, my concern is that we know that she had been there at least 48 hours, Mike Brooks. And very often, every 24 hours, a lot of establishments roll over their video.
BROOKS: Exactly. But hopefully, they will be able to glean something from that. Also, how did she get there? We don`t know that, either. Was her car there? Was maybe someone who knew her had their car? We don`t know much right now, Nancy, very early on in the investigation so far.
GRACE: I want to go straight out to Lauren Howard, psychotherapist. Why is it that we are hearing of and seeing so many murders of pregnant women? In fact, there is a recent study a couple of years old that states that homicide is the number one cause of death amongst pregnant women.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, OK, but that`s a number that`s not necessarily based on a lot of pregnant women dying. I mean, yes, they don`t die in childbirth anymore, so it`s a percentage but...
GRACE: Can you just answer the question, please?
HOWARD: You know, Nancy, it really goes to crime of passion and shame. Is there shame involved? Is there -- is it shirking of responsibility? I mean, pretty clearly, it is a -- this is not a rational act, to murder someone who you have, let`s say, impregnated or who has become pregnant by someone else`s hand. It`s territorial. It`s objectification. To put it in the realm of normal, like, why is this happening and therefore, how can we prevent it? Not going to happen. Girls get pregnant and...
GRACE: Well, back to Debbie in Kentucky`s question. I want to go back out to Mike Brooks. The theory -- is there a boyfriend? Is there a husband? Of course, there`s a boyfriend somewhere. We know that she is not married. We know she`s seven months pregnant. So somewhere along the way, there`s a boyfriend. What is clouding the identity right there is she`s only been there in North Carolina for two weeks. She has come there to be stationed there, and now she turns up dead at seven months pregnant, Mike Brooks.
BROOKS: Yes, she`s only been there since June 12, Nancy. So you know what they`re going to have to do now as investigators, they`re going to have to backtrack. Who was she staying with? Was she staying at this hotel as temporary quarters? Was she staying on base? Did she have an apartment? Who was she staying with? They`re going to go through, Nancy, the who, what, when, where, why and how of what happened over the last 24 hours, and also going back June 12 and prior to that.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Albert in Kentucky. Hi, Albert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question kind of relates to what you`re talking about here. The last question was asked, Did she have a boyfriend? My question was, Did they know if anyone had checked in with her or if anyone was there while she checked in?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Kevin Miller with KDKA radio. We know she was at the Fairfield Inn, room 143. We know she had been there at least 48 hours. What else do we know, if anything? This is all just breaking as we go to air.
MILLER: Nancy, you`re right, it`s developing as we speak. I can just tell you that that area -- I know Fayetteville very well. You have a lot of hotels. You have a lot of pawn shops. You have a lot of strip clubs. The locals call it Fayette-nam (ph). So there are a lot of great people, great soldiers, but there are a lot of seedy people there, as well.
GRACE: Seven months pregnant, 23 years old, Specialist Megan Lynn Touma found dead there at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. This is now the second pregnant soldier found dead in this year alone. We all remember Marine Corporal Lauterbach. She was found -- her remains were found in the back yard of her married lover, Cesar Laurean. And I`d like to report tonight he is still in Mexico, awaiting extradition to the U.S. He is still there waiting on justice.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and Richard Herman out of New York. Richard Herman, whenever they finally pin this murder on someone, the reality is, in North Carolina, there cannot be two murder charges, even when you intentionally kill a woman in order to kill the baby, the unborn child.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right, Nancy. And this is going to be such a difficult case. I mean, she was three years abroad, back for what, a couple -- I mean, a few weeks here? What a tough case to investigate. You know, they`re going to check her cell phone records, text messages, e-mails. Very, very difficult, Nancy.
GRACE: The Fairfield Inn giving no comment at this juncture.
Joining me now, family advocate Susan Moss. Sue, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This pregnant Marine`s tomb was a lonely hotel room. The first thing they need to do is to look at her social network. Who was she hanging out with? Domestic violence is what accounts for most of the murders of pregnant women, and that is perhaps the key to finding out this mystery.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Martha in Illinois. Hi, Martha. Hold on. Don`t have Martha yet. Karleen in Idaho. Hi, Karleen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I have a question. Are we -- or I`m assuming that they will look into the associations between the two deaths of both young women and see what their associations are, such as, Were they on the same base? Did they have the same leadership? Were they in the same troop? Did they have the same cross-associations?
GRACE: Eben Brown of Metro Networks, what do we know? I know that this woman has only been there two weeks. Lauterbach has been dead for several months, her married lover still languishing in a Mexican jail, waiting to come here and face justice. Was there any connection whatsoever?
BROWN: We don`t know yet. This investigation is so new, this discovery is so recent, that police are just beginning their task in trying to piece together what happened and who Specialist Touma knew and who she was associated with and whatnot. And in any case, we`re not going to hear until they have some developments to release to us, so they can then, hopefully, use those to go, you know, gather and generate new leads.
GRACE: Tonight, we are learning as we go to air yet another pregnant soldier there in North Carolina has been found dead. Of course, you all remember the case of Maria Lauterbach, Marine specialist, found dead, her remains discovered in the back yard of her married lover, Cesar Laurean, still in a Mexican prison awaiting transportation to the U.S. to face justice. And now this girl.
Straight out to Raymond Giudice. What`s going to be difficult here is she`s only been in town for two weeks.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, let me disagree with you and Herman on that. I think that actually eliminates an enormous amount of potential suspects. She`s been in Germany on an Army base for the last three years. Unless some of those fellows, friends, may be potential enemies, followed her over here in the last two weeks, the circle of potential suspects is actually pretty small.
GRACE: Ray, not knowing the full fact scenario, I find that to be a complete stab in the dark. For all we know, she followed her boyfriend over here.
GIUDICE: Sure, but...
GRACE: She`s only been here two weeks. So to rule out any connection to the father of the unborn child, which is a likely suspect -- a likely suspect, not the suspect, but it`s a starting juncture for police -- is crazy.
GIUDICE: Well, that`s one -- I didn`t rule him -- that person out. All I`m saying is all the random acts of violence that may have occurred on an Army base, all the enemies or people that may have a motive that are still back in Germany, didn`t do this. They didn`t get to that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: That must be one heck of a motive, to kill a pregnant soldier, seven month pregnant 23-year-old woman. What kind of motive can you think of for that, Ray Giudice?
GIUDICE: Well, I`m sure the murderer had a motive. There`s a dead body. It`s lust. It`s crime. It`s sin. It`s drugs. It`s sex. It`s a lot of different things. But right now, we know there`s a whole lot of people she`s had contact with over the last three years that are still in that Army base in Germany. We don`t need to talk to them about being suspects. They`re not suspects.
GRACE: Let`s go back to the facts. Joining me tonight, Dr. Zhongxue Hua, Union County medical examiner. Dr. Hua, thank you for being with us. Let`s analyze what we know about the death of this young pregnant Marine. We know that police have stated it is suspicious. We know that they have said it is not of natural causes. Yet they are not stating there is a cause, an obvious cause of death.
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, MEDICAL EXAMINER, UNION COUNTY, NJ: The most likely scenario is the autopsy is sort of inconclusive. There`s no definite anatomical evidence point to direction of which (INAUDIBLE) cause of death. And I mean, we have to really backtrack a little bit, have to wait for the autopsy result to finally come in to figure out what`s the exactly cause of death and moving from there.
GRACE: But Dr. Hua, don`t you think police, as they entered the room, could tell if she was, for instance, bludgeoned to death, if she was asphyxiated via being smothered, manual or ligature asphyxiation or strangulation, whether it was a gunshot wound or a stabbing wound? I mean, clearly, they would know that much.
HUA: Oh, if it`s a stabbing wound or gunshot wound, I would expect the police would say right away if they know the cause. In this case, they only classify suspicious. That`s a good indication the autopsy inconclusive. And again, here you mentioned one thing, strangulation, manual strangulation. Usually, it`s very hard diagnosis, especially for body (INAUDIBLE) decompose, in this case, odor can be smell in the hallway. And it`s certainly gets (ph) a lot (ph) of challenge in terms of how to do exactly good autopsy this case.
GRACE: Now, Doctor, for a neighboring room to detect an odor with the door shut, how long, say in an air-conditioned room, do you believe she would have been dead?
HUA: I would say two or three days certainly can have this kind of effect.
GRACE: So possibly up to three days.
Back to Mike Brooks. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Bottom line, it`s going to boil down to forensics. If they don`t have the surveillance video, if it has been videoed over 48 hours later...
BROOKS: Right.
GRACE: ... that room has got to be handled perfectly.
BROOKS: Absolutely. And you also go back to the guest list. Who was standing on either side of her? Nancy, we can`t rule out that it could have been -- maybe looked like a suicide but staged to -- (INAUDIBLE) strangulation possible staged to look like a suicide. Can`t rule anything out right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just in -- cops investigating the suspicious death of another pregnant soldier. Specialist Megan Lynn Touma`s body was just found in a Fayetteville motel room, the Fayetteville Police Department calling the death suspicious, and authorities say they do not know the cause. The 23-year-old dental specialist from Kentucky was seven months pregnant. She is the second pregnant service member to die in North Carolina this year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the calls. To Martha in Illinois. Hi, Martha.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love you, love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I keep hearing them say she got back June the 12th. When did she leave? Like, do they know whether she got pregnant over there or in the States?
GRACE: You know, interesting question. Back to you, Kevin Miller with KDKA radio. Did she first get here two weeks ago or was she coming back?
MILLER: Nancy, from what we can tell, she was on a three-year deployment coming back from Germany. Usually, you go to basic training, then advanced training. Then you go to your deployment. She was deployed in Germany. She coming back for her next duty station, which was Ft. Bragg, North Carolina.
Also, if I might just add, Ft. Bragg is where this murder happened. Camp LeJeune is where the -- or not murder, this death happened. Camp LeJeune is where this other murder happened, and they`re quite a bit of distance. So the possibility that they`re related might be a stretch tonight.
GRACE: Now, I`m getting a report that Touma was previously assigned in the U.S. Army to Bavaria, Bamberg, Germany, from July 2005 to June 2008, from 2003 to 2005, assigned to Ft. Drum, New York. We do know she`s been in this area for just two weeks.
A 23-year-old Army specialist has now been found dead, seven months pregnant, two soldiers dead there in North Carolina near their bases just since January.
We are taking your calls. Live to Dustin in Connecticut. Hi, Dustin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was wondering -- you said that the Marine was in there for 48 hours, in the motel room, right?
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just wondering why the maid didn`t come through every 24 hours and change sheets and everything.
GRACE: That is an excellent question, Dustin in Connecticut. Now, there is this Army specialist, Megan Lynn Touma, and there is Lance Corporal Marine Maria Lauterbach. We`re going to answer that question in just one moment from Dustin in Connecticut. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news tonight. Authorities investigating the death of a pregnant soldier stationed at Ft. Bragg in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Twenty-three-year-old Megan Lynn Touma, seven months pregnant, was identified two days after her body was found in a motel room that started to smell, police tonight calling the death suspicious but said they do not know the cause. Touma just arrived at Ft. Bragg less than two weeks ago from Germany. She is second pregnant service member to die this year in North Carolina after Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She is serving our country at a time of war, and this is what she gets? A seven-months-pregnant Army specialist found dead in a local motel there in North Carolina, Touma a 23-year-old dental specialist born in Seoul, South Korea. Her hometown, however, Cold Springs, Kentucky. She joined the Army back in July 2003. She arrived at Ft. Bragg`s 19th Replacement Company June 12, 2008.
Very quickly to you, Mike Brooks. How difficult will it be to process a hotel room versus someone`s home? How many hundreds of fingerprints must be in that hotel room?
BROOKS: There are going to be quite a few, Nancy. Sometimes that is a problem. But the other thing they`re going to look at is registration from when she signed into the hotel. Was she by herself? Was she with someone else? Burt the whole forensic side of things, they`ll be able to work the hotel room probably with no problems, but...
GRACE: Do you think she had a "Do not disturb" sign up? I mean, the caller from Connecticut, Dustin, was correct. Why didn`t the maid notice this?
BROOKS: If there`s a "Do not disturb" sign on the door, Marriott is not going to knock on your door, Nancy.
GRACE: They could have saved her life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just in cops investigating the suspicious death of another pregnant soldier. Specialist Megan Lynn Touma`s body was just found in a Fayetteville motel room. The Fayetteville Police Department calling the death suspicious and authorities say they do not know the cause.
The 23-year-old dental specialist from Kentucky was seven months pregnant. She is the second pregnant service member to die in North Carolina this year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: If you are just joining us, we have learned police investigating the death of a seven months pregnant army specialist, a highly decorated army specialist. Her body just identified in the last hours. All we know right now is she had only been in town there in North Carolina for about two weeks.
Touma`s award and decorations include the Army Achievement medal, the Good Conduct medal, the National Defense Service medal, the Global War on Terrorism medal and the Army Service Ribbon.
Apparently she had been there in a Fairfield inn about 48 hours, possibly longer, when the odor coming from her room -- emanating from her room alerted authorities.
We are taking your calls live.
Joining me right now is Omar Ashmawy, military legal analyst.
Omar, thank you for being with us. I find it very unusual that no one had noticed she was not at work.
OMAR ASHMAWY, MILITARY LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, Nancy. No. That`s actually absolutely a most unusual fact just like with a lot about the case. It`s just unusual for a service member to not show up to work and have no one pay attention and no one wonder where she is.
That just doesn`t happen.
And if she`s staying at that inn because that she`s where she`s living until they provide her on-base quarters or something else, then they should know where she is. When she checks in, she gives an address. She gives a phone number. So it`s absolutely unbelievable that no one went to go look for her.
GRACE: With me, military legal analyst Omar Ashmawy.
Omar, another question, she, of course, has been identified as a female soldier with the 19th replacement detachment there at Ft. Bragg. However, she was found off base.
Will the army have any jurisdiction whatsoever in this case?
ASHMAWY: There is no doubt in my mind that the army CID is involved in the investigation of her death. If the suspect -- whoever that is -- ends up being a military member they absolutely have jurisdiction.
And something worth noting is that the army, the military in general, has a fetal murder law on the books, so they can actually take someone to court for both the murder of her and the murder of the baby.
GRACE: Now, Omar, how would that work? If this were prosecuted in -- through regular jurisprudence there by the local county district attorney, could the army come in after that and prosecute for the death of the fetus?
ASHMAWY: Yes. That`s absolutely possible, although much more unusual. What`s far more likely is that the army would insist on maintaining jurisdiction over the suspect because -- and they would do so based on the idea that they actually are better fit to prosecute him because they can prosecute him for both murders, not just the one.
And North Carolina -- you know, their hands are tied. They can only prosecute the guy or whoever it is only for her death.
GRACE: With me, Omar Ashmawy.
Omar, but would the army have the death penalty?
ASHMAWY: Absolutely. The army has the death penalty. It`s used it. You know the military has it. And it`s been used in the past for heinous murders and, obviously, murdering a pregnant woman is about as heinous as it gets as, you know, and especially.
GRACE: We are talking your calls live.
Joining us right now Sonja in Arkansas. Hi, Sonja.
SONJA, ARKANSAS RESIDENT: Hello.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?
SONJA: I want to know, did they know if she had a serious boyfriend or anything before she left the country? And maybe that`s the suspect to look at, she came back pregnant.
GRACE: Interesting question.
Kevin Miller, I know you start with the current boyfriend, husband. But what about ex`s? Do we know anything about that?
KEVIN MILLER, REPORTER, KDKA RADIO: Nancy, we don`t know anything at the time. But I will say this, the folks in Fayetteville will count on the state police in Raleigh which is about 90 minutes away. So they`ll have additional resources. I expect them to really work hard on this case and to use the resources of the state police in Raleigh.
GRACE: Well, I certainly hope so.
Out to Kim in Texas. Hi, Kim.
KIM, TEXAS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, love your show.
GRACE: What`s your -- thank you, dear. What`s your question?
KIM: My question is, does anyone know where her parents live? Or did they know she was pregnant?
GRACE: It`s my understanding that they are from Cold Springs, Kentucky.
Out to Eben Brown with Metro Networks. Eben, do we know about her family`s whereabouts?
EBEN BROWN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: We know very little still at this point. She is originally from Kentucky and that`s probably where family might be. And we don`t know her story. We don`t know if the family knew she was pregnant. She had been overseas for such a long time. She is -- it is quite easy to assume that she became pregnant overseas.
And who knows what she told her family back home. They may have been excited and ecstatic waiting for their new addition. Who knows?
GRACE: Well, I don`t know. Hold on just a moment. Hold on just a moment. She`s in her seventh month. How do I know she didn`t come home for Christmas and meet up with an old boyfriend or long-standing boyfriend here in the United States? We don`t know that yet.
BROWN: No one knows that yet. You don`t know her schedule. All of this is going to have to be found out from the military. And it`ll come out the police investigation.
GRACE: She`s seven months now. She got pregnant most likely back in December.
Out to the lines, Judy in Rhode Island. Hi, Judy.
JUDY, RHODE ISLAND RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
JUDY: My question is, I`m wondering if she -- if anybody knows how she got to that hotel? Is her car outside or.
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Eben Brown?
BROWN: Again, these details haven`t been compiled and released to the public yet, so we don`t know these little details, how she got there. What was she doing there? Was -- did she live on base? Did she have an off- base pass? We don`t know why she was there.
GRACE: I want to go bang to Dr. Zhongxue Hua, Union County medical examiner. It seems to me this is all going to boil down to forensics if the local Fairfield inn has erased or taped over its video.
What do we possibly think we can get from the body?
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION CO., N.J. MEDICAL EXAMINER: Lots of forensic evidence had been collected early on, I mean, at the scene and in the body. With a new procedure you collect all the nails, all the hairs or the microscopic evidence including the rape kit. Anything have to be sort of - - you expect anything to be sort of -- everything down the line, have to fully collected and analyzed.
GRACE: And of course, that extend to the victim`s fingernails for scrapings, the bed sheets, her clothing that she was wearing, if there had been a transfer of hair or fiber from the perpetrator.
Joining me right now, Drew Brooks from the "Fayetteville Observer."
Welcome, Drew. What can you tell us?
DREW BROOKS, REPORTER, FAYETTEVILLE OBSERVER: Well, I guess there`s not much out yet. They found the body Saturday around 11:30. They were called out because of the smell, apparently.
Today they finally identified her as Megan Touma. She`s apparently a dental specialist. Had just arrived at Ft. Bragg on June 12th. Before that she was in Germany. She`s apparently seven months pregnant.
GRACE: Joining us Drew Brooks from the "Fayetteville Observer."
Everybody, quick break. We are taking your calls live.
When we come back, mommy parties hardy, then flips her car down a creek bank. She lives, of course, but her 6-year-old son wearing no seatbelt dies. A sympathetic judge allows her out of jail to attend the little boy`s funeral but mommy heads straight to a local bar.
Now, as always we salute our troops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, I just wanted to send out a salute to the troops and the job they`re doing in remembrance of my brother, who passed June 6th of 2000. Just want them to keep up the fight and carry on what the other soldiers have started and what he had started and also he gave his life for. So God bless.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A mother charged in the drunken driving death of her 6-year-old son went to the bar after his funeral. A judge had given 26-year-old Erin Howard permission to leave jail for 24 hours in order to attend her son`s funeral. But the jail told police Sunday evening that she never came back.
Authorities were tipped off to Howard`s whereabouts after the 6-year- old boy`s father allegedly told them she was at a local Ohio bar. Howard was taken into custody shortly after and a felony charge of escape has been added to the other charges she already faces, which includes involuntary manslaughter, DUI, and child endangerment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: The little 6-year-old boy dead, not wearing a seatbelt.
Out to Kevin Miller with KDKA, what happened?
MILLER: Well, what happened here, Nancy, is you have a sympathetic judge that gave Erin Howard a 24-hour furlough to go from Eerie, Pennsylvania to Hamilton, Ohio, about a six-hour drive. The conditions of it was that she was supposed to be back within 24 hours. She didn`t show up.
The police in Eerie got suspicious. They contacted the folks in Hamilton. They found out that after the funeral, after the service for her 6-year-old son, she was found at a bar called Tailgaters having a good time.
GRACE: Joining us tonight, Glynn Birch, the national president of MADD, Mothers against Drunk Driving. Glynn son killed by a drunk driver.
Glynn, thank you for being with us.
GLYNN BIRCH, NATIONAL PRESIDENT, MADD, SON KILLED BY DRUNK DRIVER: Sure.
GRACE: Glenn, you`ve read the case. What do you think?
BIRCH: Nancy, first of all, love to your kids. Being a father and a parent, you understand that the gift that we have in hand. Now, I want to say to the real victim, 6-year-old Samuel, is the 6-year-old child that was killed, who died a violent crash. Drunk driving is a violent crime.
And just -- you know, we have to do a better job of assessing the problem. You know the judge did show empathy for the driver or the mother. But when we have to look at what the problem really is.
Just to give you an example, in Ohio, our roadways in Ohio, there`s 147,000 drivers with five or more convictions and over 33,000 with three or more convictions. Judges need to take a better look before we elect these folks out to commit another crime.
A mother, a mother whose child was killed, yet she went out to drink. And that`s a problem.
GRACE: To Lauren Howard, psychotherapist, she kills her son through drunk driving, root beer and Seagram`s, until she`s almost double the legal limit. And in an act of sympathy, a judge lets her out to go to a funeral and she ends up at a local bar?
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I agree with your former guest. What was the judge doing letting her out unsupervised to go to this funeral? It`s an outrage. He is culpable.
He -- this is a woman with an absolute record of lack of impulse control, over drinking, endangering the life of her child, and he just lets her go for 24 hours and we`re going to blame her?
She has a problem. She is sick. She has an addictive problem with alcohol. Guess what? Of course, she`s going to go to a bar. What else is she going to do?
GRACE: You know, let`s unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss, Ray Giudice, Richard Herman.
Susan Moss, why is it when drunk drivers kill people we say, oh poor drunk driver, they have a problem, let`s help them. You know what? Let`s go take a look at the 6-year-old boy`s grave site. He wasn`t even belted in and mommy was twice the legal limit -- nearly twice the legal limit off Seagram`s and root beer. That`s a new one on me.
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Amen. Going to a bar after this funeral is akin to spitting on this child`s grave. Yes, she`s going to get used to bars but that`s the bar of a jail cell. This is absolutely, absolutely -- there is no excuse.
And this judge letting a killer going to her victim`s funeral? I`m sorry, it was the wrong thing to do. It should never have happened. And if it did happen, she should have been supervised.
GRACE: And the judge needs to come off the bench. I understand -- I`m sure she cried in court. But was she crying the night she didn`t have the little boy belted in, the night she chose to be almost twice the legal limit, Ray Giudice, and drive straight down a creek bank?
How do you get out of jail anyway? That is extremely rare.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It absolutely is. Normally in the rare occasions when you see these releases for funerals, they are taken from the jail, almost in handcuffs by sheriffs to the funeral and taken right back.
This is unusual. She`s 400 miles away, I think, in another state, driven by her mother.
GRACE: Unchaperoned.
GIUDICE: I mean this is a disaster waiting to happen. She does have a problem with alcohol, that`s clear. The judge should have known that. It was a mistake.
GRACE: Richard Herman, why do we keep saying a problem with alcohol? I know that. But she`s charged with voluntary manslaughter. I think she should be charged with murder, but that`s just me.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, let`s just step back a second. She`s innocent until proven guilty. I know that`s not.
GRACE: Can`t you think of anything else to say? You say that every single time I throw you a question.
HERMAN: Because that`s the watch word.
GRACE: We know that.
HERMAN: That`s what`s going on. She`s not.
GRACE: We know that.
HERMAN: She`s not proven guilty yet. There`s a burden of proof here. The judge was sympathetic. It was her daughter -- it`s not easy being a judge. Look, he did what he thought was right.
GRACE: Let me see, Herman. Did I actually hear you just say, it`s not easy being a judge?
HERMAN: That`s right. This was a tough decision for him. He made it. He`ll stand by it. He had no way of knowing.
GRACE: OK, thanks.
Mike Brooks, when you think about all the DUIs you`ve seen, a 6-year- old boy dead here and mommy goes to the bar straight from the funeral after the judge had an unusual act of sympathy?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: It`s unbelievable, Nancy, that he allowed -- you know took mercy on this poor woman and let her go. You know, at least put some kind of tracking device on her. He probably didn`t think she was an escape risk but now she`s facing an escape charge, a felony, along with the involuntary manslaughter.
GRACE: There`s the bar.
BROOKS: It should have been a homicide.
GRACE: You just saw the bar she couldn`t help to go into it even after her son`s funeral...
BROOKS: And you know what else is ironic, Nancy?
GRACE: . because of her drunk driving.
BROOKS: You know what else is ironic? The bar Tailgaters. Think back to Drew Peterson. He was also frequented a bar in Bolingbrook called Tailgaters.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Dana in Washington. Hi, Dana.
DANA, WASHINGTON RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, I just love your show. I think you`re an inspiration.
GRACE: Thank you. I am very distraught about this 6-year-old.
DANA: I am, too. I worked as a (INAUDIBLE) of many years ago and I know when there was funerals, they would usually -- you know, if it was a close relative, they would let them go with an escort. Why didn`t they do this with this woman or have the police meet her at this funeral to make sure she was taken back into custody?
GRACE: You know, Mike Brooks, I don`t understand. I think Dana is right. When do you let someone walk scot-free out of jail with their mother as the escort?
BROOKS: Right. You know take -- you`re going from one state to another state. Have the authorities from where she was incarcerated meet the authorities the next state over and have them take her and then bring her right back so she has nowhere else to go but back behind bars.
GRACE: Her excuse for being drunk, it`s my birthday. Nearly twice the legal limit. I believe she was 1.39.
Out to Cheri in Ohio. Hi, Cheri.
CHERI, OHIO RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
CHERI: I wanted to ask you, was her little boy with her when she was out celebrating or is she a single mom or -- you know, I mean, did she go to pick up her little boy from somewhere and.
GRACE: I don`t believe she`s a single mom because apparently her husband -- or maybe it was her ex-husband, Kevin Miller, is the one that told authorities where she was?
MILLER: It was the father of 6-year-old Samuel, Nancy, and she does have another child by another man, an 8-month-old daughter, and another son who we don`t know who he`s staying with. But she has more kids than dearly departed Samuel.
GRACE: You know the little boy suffered so much trauma when he was killed. Neither she nor the little boy were belted in and when her car careened down a creek bed.
Susan Moss, weigh in.
MOSS: Absolutely. I mean it`s unbelievable. This kid had blunt force trauma. The kid didn`t die until taken to the hospital, wasn`t pronounced dead until at the hospital. So you can imagine the suffering.
GRACE: Incredible suffering.
Glynn Birch, for every time someone is caught DUI how many times, estimated, have they been driving drunk?
BIRCH: 87 times before they are caught.
Drunk driving is a violent crime and people continue to drink and drive because they can and because we let them.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Howard was very polite and told police she was, quote, "celebrating her 26th birthday" and didn`t have long distance phone service, so she had to drive to the state county fair store to use the phone to call her dad for money.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.
SHEEBA, ILLINOIS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just want you to know you educate so many people and I`m so proud of that.
GRACE: Thank you.
SHEEBA: But my question is, did she appear to be mourning when her son was killed?
GRACE: Interesting question, Sheeba.
What about it, Kevin Miller? What do we know?
MILLER: Nancy, what we know from the police in the area that basically she was very polite, said sir and ma`am. And not only was she drinking the Seagram`s and the root beer but admitted to smoking marijuana beforehand.
GRACE: Just to take the edge off, a little Seagram`s, a little root beer. She was about 1.39, nearly twice the legal limit.
To Nanette in Michigan. Hi, Nanette.
NANETTE, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
NANETTE: I was wondering if she was supposedly let out of jail to attend the funeral with her mother, where was her mother when she was at the bar?
GRACE: Where was the mother, Kevin Miller?
MILLER: Nancy, that`s a very good point.
GRACE: Did she belly up to the bar, too?
MILLER: I can neither confirm or deny that, Nancy.
GRACE: A lot of to be fleshed out in the case, Nanette in Michigan. We do know the judge released her with her mother.
Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Javares Washington, 23, Pensacola, Florida. A football star at Northern Arizona University, enlisting straight from college. Awarded the Army Commendation medal, Army Good Conduct medal. A devoted family man. Leaves behind parents Felicia and Willie, widow Letricia, two sons and a baby girl.
Javares Washington, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but our biggest thanks is to you for being with us.
A special happy birthday tonight to veteran trial lawyer Jason Oshins. And a special good night from Miami, friend of the show, Joe.
Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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