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Nancy Grace
Pregnant Soldier Dead Four Days Before Discovered
Aired June 26, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, stunning details emerge as North Carolina police investigate the death of a gorgeous young 23-year-old Army specialist seven months pregnant, Megan Lynn Touma. Police now reveal a full four days passed before Touma`s found dead in the bathtub of a local inn. And it`s also revealed even though Touma absent from a mandatory check-in there at Ft. Bragg, the young pregnant soldier never reported missing or AWOL by the Army. Did that one glitch cost her life?
No official cause of death as of tonight, but we do know her body discovered in such a state, police could not discern the victim man or woman, much less seven months pregnant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EL SAYED TOUMA, EX-HUSBAND OF DEAD PREGNANT SOLDIER: I still love Megan. I still do, and I will never stop. You know, she was a great person. She was lively. She was full of joy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ex-husband of pregnant soldier Megan Touma breaks his silence and wants to know why Megan was apparently never reported missing. Reports indicate Touma never reported to her formation drill June 16. That`s a full five days before she was discovered suspiciously dead. The Army`s saying after 24 hours, a missing soldier is normally declared AWOL. But did that happen in the case of Megan Touma?
TOUMA: She was left in the room, you know, for two days. And the Army said she was AWOL. They didn`t even bother to go check on her, you know, in the motel where she stayed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This as police reveal Touma`s body found inside her hotel bathtub in a severe state of decomposition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, the desperate search. A beautiful 12-year-old little Vermont girl vanishes into thin air after being dropped off at a local convenience store to meet up with a little friend. Tonight, police investigate, is 12-year-old Brooke Bennett with a MySpace Internet predator? MySpace and computer evidence emerging in the investigation. Where is 12-year-old Brooke?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An Amber Alert for a 12-year-old girl who goes missing in Vermont, Brooke Bennett dropped off at a convenience store early Wednesday morning by family. That`s where she claimed she was meeting up with a friend. But now police say that story was all a cover-up to meet up with somebody she met on the Internet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Members of the Vermont State Police computer crime unit are currently examining the computer used by Ms. Bennett in an attempt to isolate and identify when she was speaking with on line -- the person on line prior to her being reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bennett last seen wearing bluejeans, a pink sweater and white sneakers. Active in lacrosse, basketball and softball, Bennett set to start the 8th grade in the fall. But tonight, no sign of the 12-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, I`m upset. We just want her home. We want her back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, stunning details emerge as North Carolina police investigate the death of a gorgeous young 23-year-old Army specialist, seven-months-pregnant Megan Lynn Touma.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New information emerging in the death of pregnant soldier Megan Touma. Documents reveal Megan was found dead inside the hotel room bathtub, her body appearing to be in an advanced state of decomposition, police also indicating furniture inside of room 143 at the Fairfield Inn askew and the bed pushed slightly away from the wall. This as the ex-husband of pregnant Marine (SIC) Megan Touma breaks his silence and wants to know why Megan was apparently never reported missing.
TOUMA: I spoke to her -- you know, to her family and they said when they called -- when they called the Army to check on their daughter because they haven`t heard from her for a while, you know, the Army -- the Army said she was AWOL. And her mother said, My daughter will never go AWOL. They just said, Oh, she`s AWOL. Well, go check on her. You know, maybe if you would have checked earlier, something -- you could have probably, you know, saved her life or just -- maybe, you know, her body wouldn`t decompose and she wouldn`t be left for two days, you know? And it`s just - - and there`s a lot of questions, I mean, that we need -- we need answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Two days? Try on four days for size. Out to Bryan Mims with WRAL. Bryan, a lot of developments tonight. What`s the latest?
BRYAN MIMS, WRAL: Well, the latest is, as you delineated there, we have a copy of the search warrant affidavit that shows a maintenance supervisor at the hotel found the body of Megan Touma last Saturday. It was in a very decomposed state. Police could not tell how she died. And we are still waiting on autopsy reports from the state medical examiner. The physical part of the autopsy has been completed. Right now, we`re still waiting on the toxicology results, and we could get those within the next day or so.
GRACE: Well, Bryan Mims, I`ve got that search warrant right here in my hands, and I notice they obviously couldn`t tell by looking at her -- she was found dead in the bathtub, another detail we`ve discovered. The deceased appeared to be a female in an advanced state of decomposition. They were not even sure at first they had a woman, even though she was seven months pregnant.
MIMS: Yes, and that indicates that she had been dead for quite some time. Police could not find any evidence of trauma to the body, such as bullet wounds or knife wounds or any strangulation evidence. We had heard reports that possibly she was strangled, but they could not tell from the condition of the body what happened to her.
GRACE: Joining us right now, renowned medical examiner and author Dr. Joshua Perper. He`s joining us tonight from satellite (ph) in Miami. Dr. Perper, if she was that decomposed, will they be able to tell, for instance, if she were strangled, be it manual or ligature? I mean, can you tell that far along, unless there is possibly a break in the hyoid bone?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER: No, absolutely, there are signs of asphyxia due to strangulation. There are hemorrhages in the eye. There are injuries to the muscle next (ph) and the ligature. You see the ligature. If there is a manual strangulation, you see...
GRACE: Even that decomposed?
PERPER: ... fingernails...
GRACE: Even that decomposed?
PERPER: Well, no. If it`s decomposed, then it`s much more difficult because the decomposition changes can mimic a strangulation or can mimic trauma. And probably, this is one of the problem in this particular instance.
GRACE: That is my point. If she was so decomposed, Dr. Perper, that they couldn`t tell -- and she`s seven months pregnant -- at the beginning whether it`s a man or a woman laying in the bathtub, the soft tissue is decomposed.
PERPER: Right.
GRACE: And the soft tissue on the neck is where you determine manual or ligature strangulation. That`s where you get that information. And you mention the eyeballs. A sign of strangulation or asphyxiation is a hemorrhage of the blood vessels in the eye. If you`ve decomposed, can you still see those hemorrhages?
PERPER: No, you may not see the hemorrhages. In the case of a ligature strangulation, if the ligature is still on the neck, you may see the mark because the tissue are going to swell on both sides of the ligature. But there`s no question that decomposition makes the determination of the injuries very, very difficult.
GRACE: Another question. Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. We`ll be right with you. Dr. Perper, another thing. If it was, for instance, a gunshot wound, we would probably be able to determine that because the bullet may very well still be in the body. You may be able to make out an entry or exit wound. But with a stabbing, with a decomposed body, will you be able to determine a stabbing death?
PERPER: Well, yes, most cases, you may. And in this particular case, the body was decomposed over I understand only two or three days, so this should be possible.
GRACE: And one quick thing before I go back to our reporters joining us, an interesting issue. She`s in the bathtub. What would we find if she had been drowned in that bathtub? Four days had passed, Dr. Perper. I`m sure that, outwardly, her hair would have been dried by that time. But anything left of the body that could prove a homicide by drowning?
PERPER: If this was a homicide by drowning, when the legs (ph) were suddenly withdrawn from the water, we may not see anything.
GRACE: Very, very difficult tonight, with what we have learned, to determine cause of death. Still waiting on that, not to even mention toxicology reports.
I want to go back out to Bryan Mims, joining us there on the scene of Fayetteville, North Carolina, with WRAL. Bryan, we know she was found in the bathtub. We know severe decomposition. We now know it`s four days, not two days, that she was in there. Didn`t anybody go in to clean the room? Weren`t there phone calls? Didn`t they want her credit card? I mean, how did four days go by with nobody opening that door?
MIMS: Well, the maintenance supervisor at the hotel says there was a "Do not disturb" sign hanging from the doorknob for four days, from June 17 until June 21, when she was due to check out. So because of that sign, none of the employees found cause to go in there. The supervisor went in on that Saturday because she was supposed to check out. He opened the door, looked inside, noticed the foul odor and found her body in the bathtub.
GRACE: We also learned tonight that furniture in the room was askew. The bed had been removed from the wall several inches. There were other indicators. Was there a struggle in the room?
We`re taking your calls. Out to Juanita in Wisconsin. Hi, Juanita.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she have a boyfriend over in Germany that transferred to that base and that`s why she transferred?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Gurnal Scott joining us, with WPTF. Gurnal, what do we know?
GURNAL SCOTT, WPTF RADIO: Well, we don`t know much, actually. What we are still trying to figure out -- we know -- we`ve heard from the ex- husband. The person we have not heard from in all of this is the boyfriend in this case. And we are trying to really wait for any information that may come from him as to -- whether -- who he is and is he the father of that baby that she was expecting. She was seven months pregnant.
GRACE: Very quickly, back to Joshua Perper, renowned medical examiner out of the Miami jurisdiction. Dr. Perper, will they be able to get DNA from the fetus to determine paternity?
PERPER: There is a possibility, but it depends on the degree of decomposition because DNA also decomposes.
GRACE: Well, Doctor, I thought as long as you had soft tissue, you could get DNA.
PERPER: No, but the DNA, it`s organic molecule which also can be destroyed as a result of decomposition. But in many cases, there is still enough left, enough of the nuclei, so they can do this kind of examination.
GRACE: Dr. Perper, people go in and exhume bodies years later and get DNA. This is a four-day-old body.
PERPER: That`s correct. But an embalmed body (INAUDIBLE) bodies which are buried are embalmed, and sometimes they are dry, they are dessicated, and that`s easier. I`m not saying that this is impossible, but there is a possibility that they may not be able to do it.
GRACE: Back to Bryan Mims with WRAL. Bryan, the ex-husband has emerged. Now, that`s very typically the first place you look. But reality is, they`ve been divorced for some time. He`s built a whole new life. They seem to have been on fairly friendly terms.
MIMS: Yes. He told us last night that his relationship with his ex- wife was very amicable. They divorced -- they filed for divorce in Charleston, South Carolina, according to records, in January 2007. He has gone on with his life. He has remarried. In fact, he told us last night that his new wife is expecting a baby herself. But he says that he has tried to keep in touch with his ex-wife, Megan Touma, and they`ve had a very close relationship, despite the divorce.
GRACE: One little glitch there, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author joining us tonight out of LA. We have received reports that even though they were divorced and he apparently is not the father of this child, she still wanted to name the baby after the ex-husband. Go figure.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I mean, it is kind of a curious story, I mean, that she would still have that kind of relationship with him. But he just didn`t seem like a perpetrator to me when I saw him in...
GRACE: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: Usually, the profile of the perpetrator is someone who`s either jealous towards the unborn baby because they`re kind of a big fat baby themselves, they want to be the only person in the woman`s -- pregnant woman`s life, or they don`t want to take up the responsibilities of fatherhood. They don`t want to pay child support. They don`t want to have baby-sitting duties. I don`t think this particular ex-husband gentleman really sounded too stressed about all that.
GRACE: Well, let me rephrase, as we say in the courtroom, Dr. Bethany.
MARSHALL. OK.
GRACE: My point was not so much about the ex. He`s two-and-a-half hours away. I`m pretty sure they`ve nailed down his alibi. He`s got a whole new family. From my understanding, his wife is expecting at this juncture. What I`m asking is, what does that say about the father of the baby? You name the baby after your ex-husband?
MARSHALL: Well, what it tells me about her is, if she has an inappropriately close tie to her ex-husband, did she have inappropriate expectations of the father-to-be? In other words, was she attributing more of a relationship than was really there?
GRACE: Well, it seems to me -- and you know I`m an armchair shrink, I`m just a lawyer. But it seems to me that the father means nothing if she`s going -- first of all, naming the baby after somebody, fine, but choosing your ex to name the baby after?
MARSHALL: Well...
GRACE: I -- maybe I`m reading too much into it, but I see an issue there as it relates to the father of the baby.
And speaking of the father of the baby, Gurnal Scott, where is he?
SCOTT: That`s the question, the $64,000 question right how because it seems to you and me and everyone else who`s listening and watching that if a child belongs to a certain individual and that person knows that this child is deceased, someone would come forward to say, Hey, what happened? I`d like to know what happened. We`ve heard nothing like that to this point.
GRACE: Somebody would be grieving.
Out to the lines. Carol in Nebraska. Hi, Carol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got a question about her ex-husband.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is he living? Where was he at the time?
GRACE: He`s in South Carolina. Bryan Mims, what more can you tell me about the ex?
MIMS: He is living in Charleston, South Carolina. He has remarried. They did meet at Ft. Drum, New York. He told us that last night. But he has been in Charleston. It`s not clear how long he`s been down there, but he was living there as of January 2007, and he`s currently there now.
GRACE: That would be the first thing cops would do is to button down that alibi, just as SOP, standard operating procedure.
Right now, joining me, Connie Nelson, a family friend of Megan Lynn Touma. Ms. Nelson, thank you for being with us. How is her family tonight?
CONNIE NELSON, FAMILY FRIEND OF MEGAN LYNN TOUMA: You know, I can`t even imagine how her family`s feeling right now. I know I`m just trying to respect their privacy. And it`s just hard to even think of Megan in that way.
GRACE: What was she like in life, Connie?
NELSON: Just a sweet girl, just an adorable, beautiful young lady. She grew up with my two youngest daughters. Very athletic and just a sweetheart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOUMA: Nobody stepped in the room. Why? You know, why was she there for two days, you know, deceased in the room? I mean, where is the cleaning people? I mean, where is maintenance? Where is the front desk? How come nobody checked on her?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a few new details about the death of a pregnant soldier in North Carolina. Ft. Bragg officials want to know why Specialist Megan Lynn Touma was not reported as missing. She had failed to report to a formation. Touma`s body was identified two days after it was found in a Fayetteville motel. She was seven months pregnant, reportedly excited about becoming a mother. Officials call her death, "suspicious."
TOUMA: She touched everyone`s life, everyone she came in contact with. She had a wonderful smile. She had -- she was just -- she was just full of joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: New details emerging by the hour. We are taking your calls live. To Mary Beth in Ohio. Hi, Mary Beth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Glad to see you again.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I have a couple -- just a theory. Have they dusted, like, the fingerprints of that "Do not disturb" sign and other things around that room?
GRACE: And your next question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that was it, just pertaining inside that room, plus outside of the door.
GRACE: Excellent question. To John Lucich, investigator and author of "Cyber Lies," joining us. John, first of all, printing the "Do not disturb" sign is an excellent idea, and I`ve actually never seen that done. They usually dust the room, the bed, the furniture. Sometimes, you can get -- you can try to get prints off of a person. But very quickly, because it`s a hotel room, John Lucich, how are you going to determine -- they`re going to be hundreds of different fingerprints in there.
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR: Absolutely. You take all of them. I mean, it`s a -- a scenario that you have to go through and check all the fingerprints to see who they come back to. Every one will be dusted. The entire place is a crime scene. They got the warrant not only for the hotel room but for the car itself. They`re going to check everything. And you know, you would be -- you would be surprised how many times they do dust everything that they could possibly dust.
GRACE: How about the "Do not disturb" sign? Ever seen that done?
LUCICH: Absolutely. Absolutely. They`ll dust the phone. They`ll dust everything. You know, these guys have been doing this for a long time. There`s no doubt my mind they`re going to do a great job with this.
GRACE: Lucich, I hope you`re right.
Everyone, we`re headed to break, but I`ve got to tell you about tonight`s "Case Alert." Outrage. Remarks about child rape victims by a Massachusetts lawmaker. Take a look at this guy. Arguing against stiffer penalties for repeat sex offenders, state representative James Fagan vows to quote, "rip apart" already traumatized young victims on the stand. Fagan is a defense lawyer. He threatens to make child victims` lives even more of a nightmare. To top it all off, a bombshell ruling by the Supremes allows child rapists to walk away from the death penalty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES FAGAN (D), MASSACHUSETTS STATE REP.: And I`m going to rip them apart! I`m going to make sure that the rest of their life is ruined, that when they`re 8 years old, they throw up, when they`re 12 years old, they won`t sleep, when they`re 19 years old, they`ll have nightmares, and they`ll never have a relationship with anybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOUMA: The police department in Fayetteville, I know they`re doing the best they can and I know that we`ll get whoever is responsible in that, you know, horrendous and heinous crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A dedicated and decorated soldier preparing for another volunteer assignment with the Army, dead inside a North Carolina hotel room. How Megan Touma died is a mystery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Touma`s body was found over the weekend after someone reported a strong odor coming from room 143. The 23-year-old dental specialist was seven months pregnant when she died. She had just arrived here a couple of weeks ago to be based at Ft. Bragg.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A lot of new and developing facts we have learned tonight about the death of the seven-month-old -- seven-month-pregnant specialist.
Back to Bryan Mims. What can you tell me about the furniture being disarranged?
MIMS: We haven`t gotten many details about just how disarranged it was. We hear that the nightstand next to the bed and the lamp on top of it were slightly askew, but we`re a little short of details in the search warrant affidavit.
GRACE: Right.
MIMS: We know that the bed -- the bed was slightly removed from the wall, but that`s about all we can say.
GRACE: To Charles Swift, former Navy JAG. Charles, thank you for being with us. Charles, if both the perpetrator and the victim are from the military, will the military intervene?
CHARLES SWIFT, FORMER NAVY JAG: Well, the military could, and that`s presuming that this is a murder. And so far, I haven`t heard that it is. But if it were a murder and if the perpetrator were in the military, then yes, the military would have jurisdiction.
GRACE: And what is the penalty for murder in the military, Charles?
SWIFT: Depending on the circumstances, like anywhere else, it can range from no time to the death penalty, all circumstances dependent.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She was just starting her summer after finishing the seventh grade, but tonight she`s missing. 12-year-old Brooke Bennett last seen at a Vermont convenient store where relatives drop her off to supposedly meet up with a friend. The plan was for Bennett and her pal to visit a patient at a New Hampshire hospital.
But now police say that story is false. And new developments reveal evidence on Bennett`s computer now part of the investigation as the search goes on for the 12-year-old.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: A precious little 12-year-old girl is missing after being dropped off at a local convenient store.
Out to Joel O`Brien with WTSJ 1320. Why would you drop a 12-year-old little girl at a 7-Eleven and not wait for the pick-up by the little friend or -- not have the information and verify it?
I don`t understand it, Joel O`Brien.
JOEL O`BRIEN, PRODUCTION DIRECTOR, WTSJ 1320: Good evening, Nancy.
No, I suppose I don`t either, because it seems to be that`s how my folks always stayed around until someone picked me up when I was getting dropped off somewhere when I was younger.
GRACE: So what happened, Joel?
O`BRIEN: Well, as you have reported, Nancy, the first-ever AMBER Alert in Vermont was issued late this afternoon in this case. About 9:00 last evening, Vermont state police received a report that 12-year-old Brooke Bennett of Braintree had not been heard from since about 9:00 yesterday morning.
Bennett had been dropped off at Cumberland Farms Store here in Randolph by an uncle and a cousin allegedly to meet up a friend and then go visit a friend of the friend who`s at the Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center in Hanover, New Hampshire about 40 minutes away.
Authorities now say there was no sick friend and the story was made up. Police feel that Bennett is likely with someone that she met on MySpace after an exchange was found on her computer, but they can`t confirm if the person`s a male or female.
Fliers have been distributed in the area with Bennett`s photo and description. And a search by members of the Vermont state police and canine units is being conducted around the area of Vermont route 65 in nearby Brookfield after a family member found some clothing items that may belong to Bennett.
GRACE: Clothing items? What clothing items? Where?
O`BRIEN: They haven`t been specific about that.
GRACE: Clothing items were found and they`ve got canines on, what did you say, route 60?
O`BRIEN: Vermont route 65 in Brookfield which is just north of Randolph.
GRACE: 65, just north of Randolph, they found clothing items? That`s very, very disturbing.
Out to Sarah Hinckley, reporter with "Barre-Montpelier Times Argus." Sarah, thank you for being with us. What more can you tell us, Sara?
SARAH HINCKLEY, REPORTER, BARRE-MONTPELIER TIMES ARGUS: I understand that police were able to decide the issue that alert because of the clothing and evidence they found on it and that they will be initiating a dive team tomorrow morning in the area around the Sunken Bridge further on -- in the area of route 65.
GRACE: A lot of focus, Joel O`Brien, on route 65. Why?
O`BRIEN: Well, that seems to be an area of concern at least according to the authorities. It`s all -- they`re, of course, being, you know, very respectful of what information they do release at this stage of the situation.
GRACE: Well, you know what, I appreciate all of the respect but every minute counts at this juncture.
To Marc Klaas, founder of Beyondmissing.com. Marc, weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, BEYONDMISSING.COM, FURTHER OF MURDER VICTIM POLLY KLAAS: Well, that`s absolutely correct, Nancy, that every minute does count. 74 percent of children that are murdered are murdered within the first 48 hours after an abduction.
We find children are hooking up with people that they absolutely don`t know and very, very large numbers on the Internet in social networking places, such as MySpace. And it`s very, very troubling because this is an area that we really don`t have much of a handle on.
GRACE: You know to John Lucich, investigator and author of "Cyber Lies," this is right up your alley, John. I mean she could have thought she was talking online to a 16-year-old boy and it turns out to be a 36- year-old man. I mean, you can`t tell. What can be done?
JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": I will tell you this that these parents were MIA with this. This should be a key for other parents to learn from that you don`t drop your kids off at a Cumberland Farms or 7-Eleven or any place.
If someone`s coming to get you, you bring them to the house. These kids just go out thinking that nothing will happen to them and it happens to them more often than they believe. They let their guard down because they`re at home when they`re talking to these people and kids are very vulnerable because they believe adults.
Now I have one question to these adults. What kind of person would you let your kid drive away with? If they`re driving, they`re already too old to be with your daughter.
GRACE: You`re absolutely correct.
We are taking your calls live.
Take a look at this girl. Brooke Bennett, just 12 years old. The tip line 802-234-9933. This is what we know. She was dropped off by relatives at a local convenient store allegedly to meet a little friend. The uncle and another relative drive away, thinking they have left her safe and sound. She`s gone. About 12 hours later, AMBER -- she`s reported missing. AMBER Alert goes out. No sign of this girl. Canine units on local route 65.
We now learn that some of her clothing items have been discovered. Tomorrow divers start looking within water bodies.
Let`s go out to Barbara in New York. Hi, Barbara.
BARBARA, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s our question?
BARBARA: Well, I have two.
GRACE: OK.
BARBARA: I live in New York across the lake from Vermont. We get a lot of the Vermont news. So like last night on the 11:00 news, if I`m not mistaken, there was no news about this missing girl.
This afternoon they said the AMBER Alert went out. So I`m wondering why they waited so long to put out an AMBER Alert and why the family waited 12 hours to even report this child missing?
GRACE: Joel O`Brien with WTSJ 1320 is with us. Any answers for Barbara?
O`BRIEN: Well, I don`t know the particulars but I do know that an AMBER Alert is -- there are certain restrictions on how an AMBER Alert will have to be handled and how soon or how quickly, I maybe should say, an AMBER Alert can be issued.
And the report to the state police was made at 9:00 last night, I understand, according to the police reports.
GRACE: What time did they drop her off, Joel?
O`BRIEN: 9:00 in the morning.
GRACE: So 12 hours pass before they realize she`s gone?
O`BRIEN: It appears.
GRACE: OK, tell me about the home situation. Where`s mom and dad?
O`BRIEN: According to reports, Brooke lives with her mom.
GRACE: She lives with her mom. Where`s the dad?
O`BRIEN: The dad lives in another town, in Bethel.
GRACE: OK, so they`re divorced.
Sarah Hinckley with the "Barre-Montpelier Times Argus." Sarah, who dropped her off at the convenient store?
HINCKLEY: It`s my understanding her uncle did after she had spent the night with the uncle`s family and her cousin.
GRACE: Interesting question, to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers."
Dr. Bethany, the reality is -- I`m being hard on the relative that dropped her off, but we don`t know what the little girl told the relatives as to why she was going to the convenient store, who she was meeting. But we do know that wasn`t checked out and they didn`t wait for the little girl to get picked up.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": We don`t know what she told them. But parents should know, 12-year-olds, they may look and act mature, but they`re just little kids. Their brains are not fully developed. Their brains are like a supped-up engine without an adequate breaking system. So someone gets ahold of them and they just want to go.
So you have to put the brakes on for them. Primarily, always, always have the computer with a 12-year-old in a public place. In the living room with the monitor facing outward so you can see what they`re chatting about.
If someone ever approaches them online, teach them to crash and tell. Just push the off button and tell them that that will be OK. Do not relegate parenting to other people. Never drop your child off without making sure that they`re safely in the hands of another person no matter how mature they seem.
GRACE: To Doreen in New Jersey. Hi, Doreen.
DOREEN, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
DOREEN: I was just wondering if there were surveillance cameras outside of the Cumberland store?
GRACE: Excellent question. Joel O`Brien, what do we know?
O`BRIEN: Yes, there were and it confirms that Brooke indeed was there at that time and it shows her walking away from the store.
GRACE: Well, that`s a start.
Everyone, we are taking your calls live. A 12-year-old little Vermont girl has gone missing. An AMBER Alert is out for her right now. But let me stress as much as I can, minutes count. The tip line, 802-234 9933.
Have to go to break. Let me ask you to please offer up your prayers and your good thoughts for veteran defense attorney and friend Sandy Schiff. Sandy is in the fight of her lifetime. She`s had a setback in her battle with leukemia. She is back in the hospital.
Sandy, if you are listening tonight, please stay strong and come back to us soon.
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STAFF SGT. DANIEL POST, U.S. ARMY, SALUTING THE TROOPS: This is Staff Sergeant Daniel Post with the 113th Army Band out of Fort Knox, Kentucky. I`d like to say hi to all of the soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan and that we are praying for you.
To my family and friends back home in Texas, I wish you very much. And to my son, Deuce, no father could be more prouder of their son. I love your buddy.
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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bennett was last seen on surveillance video walking away from the Cumberland Farms in Randolph Wednesday morning. Police say she convinced her uncle to drop her off at the store to get a ride to visit a sick friend.
But police say she really went there to meet a person she had been communicating with on the popular social Web site called MySpace.
Police canine teams searched the area near the floating bridge in Brookfield after family members found Bennett`s personal items in the area. Missing signs have been hung in businesses throughout Randolph.
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GRACE: We are take your calls live. A little 12-year-old girl, AMBER Alert out of Vermont. Take a look at Brooke Bennett.
Out to the lines, Kristen in New Hampshire. Hi, Kristen.
KRISTEN, NEW HAMPSHIRE RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I love you. I love your show. Your babies are beautiful.
My question is, are -- have the police confiscated her computer to check her MySpace e-mails and instant messages?
GRACE: Joel O`Brien with WTSJ is with us.
Joel, it`s my understanding they do have the computer specifically to look up the MySpace entries.
O`BRIEN: Well, they seem to conclude that that is what occurred, although I don`t have any really further information about to what extent they`ve examined the computer at this time.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas from Beyondmissing.com -- Marc, I -- that`s first thing they would do, correct, is take the computer and start combing it for clues?
KLAAS: Well, it absolutely is. And the good news is that MySpace fully cooperates with law enforcement in these kinds of issues.
But I`d like to address very quickly something that Dr. Marshall said a little earlier about taking the family computer and putting it into a place where the child can see it. That`s really only a partial answer in this day in age because kids have the ability to go online on their laptops, on their PDAs, on their cell phones, in their friend`s homes, in their libraries.
And it really is incumbent upon parents to teach them good surfing skills because they do have the ability to get online almost anywhere at almost any time.
GRACE: Marc Klaas, I`ve been looking up stats. Did you know that 1 out of 4 U.S. teens who log on have been sexually solicited? 77 percent of teens online have been contacted by online predators by age 14?
KLAAS: I did know that, and, in fact, that information comes from a very reliable source, the CyberAngels. They police the Internet and do a very reliable job of putting the best information out there and keeping the best statistics out there. So this is very credible information.
GRACE: Every minute counts. Explain, Marc.
KLAAS: Well, every minute counts because children disappear at the rate of a mile a minute -- I mean that`s the tag line on our Web site -- that a predator -- and these guys are predators. These characters on the Internet are using the Internet as their new playground.
They get these kids in their cars. And they can easily disappear at the rate of 60 miles an hour without turning a head anywhere because they`re generally on a highway or near a highway.
So you just extrapolate that out. Within an hour, it`s 60 miles. Within two hours, it`s 120 miles. And then you create a radius around that and you`re dealing with enormous, enormous land areas.
GRACE: Let`s unleash our lawyers. Joining us, high-profile defense attorney, Mickey Sherman. Also with us veteran trial lawyer Michael Mazzariello.
To you, Mickey, if the girl simply ran away and she is with an adult, does that make any difference when that adult gets charged?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": No, that adult is going to be charged of some serious crimes. But, you know, you can also see this is as such an idyllic community, Nancy.
The false sense of security and tranquility that the family enjoy and that`s maybe why they didn`t think anything so horrible could happen. But I got to tell you, as Marc Klaas points out, this is a case they should spend less money and effort with the dogs and the scuba teams and more on a great team of forensic computer scientist, because that`s who`s -- that`s going to solve this case.
It`s the computer forensic people without a doubt.
GRACE: You know it`s very troubling that articles of her clothing have already been found along the route 65.
To you, Michael Mazzariello, if Brooke has been kidnapped, will the perp face any type of additional charge if she was contacted and solicited via Internet?
MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, HOST OF "CLOSING ARGUMENTS": Absolutely. You can`t lure children on the Internet. You can`t endanger them by luring them and solicit them. And this is the exact same case -- this is the reason why I joined Carlie`s Crusade, Nancy.
We have trained 25,000 students, 15,000 administrators just what Marc Klaas says --what at to watch, what to be aware of, who`s out there, and what to do when they try to get you.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Brandy in Florida. Hi, Brandy.
BRANDY, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
BRANDY: It`s kind of a complicated one. But I`m sure you remember about two years ago the 16-year-old girl that met a guy on MySpace and she got on the airplane and went over to Israel and the FBI?
GRACE: Yes.
BRANDY: And now this girl`s doing the same thing met a guy on MySpace. Is there any kind of, like, way they can, you know, protect her or start enforcing laws where you have to be start an age like only 18- year-olds can meet 18-year-olds or you have to have a parent to sign you in if you`re under 18, something like that, you know, for MySpace for now on?
GRACE: Good question. To John Lucich, the author of "Cyber Lies," -- what about it, John?
LUCICH: Parents have got to be parents. That`s the only way to solve this type of crime. When they get ahold of those computers, they`re not only going to find all the e-mails and all of the chat but they`re going to be able to get an originating IP address and go right back to this person`s house if it`s there.
GRACE: To Dr. Joshua Perper, renowned medical examiner, joining us out of the Miami jurisdiction -- Dr. Perper, what can we gain? What clues? What evidence can we get from those items of clothing?
DR. JOSHUA PERPER, MEDICAL EXAMINER, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO CALL THE DOCTOR": Well, the examination of the clothing may show blood spots which would indicate that there was some kind of violence. They might be some material which rubbed off from the assailant or from the compartment over the car of the assailant. So they, obviously, will be examined very, very carefully.
GRACE: To Joel O`Brien with WTSJ, we have not heard from the parents yet, have we?
O`BRIEN: Well, they`ve been interviewed by the news media here in Vermont. And of course, at this point, they are just -- beside themselves with worry and concern. And they`re hoping for the best outcome in this situation.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Becoming a teen, so she`s interested in spending time with her friends and with sports. And I don`t know before that but now all of this.
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GRACE: That is the father of 12-year-old Brooke Bennett. She is now missing.
I want to go straight out to Charles Swift, veteran trial lawyer. Charles, number one, does age matter in terms of penalties for, say, kidnapping? And what if she`s been taken across state lines?
CHARLES SWIFT, FORMER NAVY JAG: Yes, it does. 12 is generally the cutoff. I don`t know New Hampshire. But for most states 12 is the most aggravating -- or younger. Number two if she`s across state lines it`s federal crime, and three, because we have the Internet involved here, and she was solicited on the Internet it`s -- that`s also a federal crime which allows the FBI to join in.
GRACE: Charles Swift, joining us tonight from Seattle.
Out to the lines, Kathy in Florida. Hi, Kathy.
KATHY, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, hi, I enjoy your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
KATHY: And my question is, did this little girl have a cell phone with her?
GRACE: Excellent question. What do we know, Sarah Hinckley? Did she have a cell phone?
HINCKLEY: Police say that she did not or would not comment on whether not she did.
GRACE: OK. Don`t know yet.
Stacy in Idaho. Hi, Stacy.
STACY, IDAHO RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
STACY: My question is how significant is it that the family members found the clothes and it was that maybe a clue she was leaving? Is that -- maybe a place where the family used to go?
GRACE: Joel, what do we know about where the clothes were found?
O`BRIEN: Well, I don`t know if that was a particular favorite place of the family to go or visit or anything.
GRACE: They`re just found along road, correct?
O`BRIEN: Well, it was found -- items of clothing were located off of Vermont route 65...
GRACE: Right.
O`BRIEN: ... in Brookfield. And...
GRACE: Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Captain Nathan Raudenbush, 25, Earl Township, Pennsylvania, killed, Iraq. A Boy Scout and Widener University grad. Loved making others smile, family picnics. Favorite meal, mom`s pork chops. Leaves behind parents Brian and Mary, sister Jennifer, widow Casey, baby boy Jackson.
Nathan Raudenbush, American hero.
Thank you to our guests and to you for being with us, and tonight a special thank you for these organic tie-dyed socks from Linda and (INAUDIBLE). And a special good night from Florida, friends of the show, Andrea and Danielle.
Aren`t they pretty?
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
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