Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Vermont Police Shift Focus to Missing 12-Year-Old`s Uncle
Aired June 30, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The desperate search for a beautiful 12-year-old Vermont girl who vanishes into thin air after reportedly being dropped off at a local convenience store, she said to meet up with a little friend.
Tonight, bombshell. Police still investigating whether the child was lured by an Internet predator, but now a stunning twist -- 12-year-old Brooke Bennett captured on grainy surveillance video at a local convenience store just moments before she vanishes -- the investigation leads police straight to Bennett`s own uncle, now jailed on unrelated charges of sex assault on a minor. And tonight, an alleged sighting of the little girl at a nearby laundromat and fast food spot emerges. Tonight, where is 12-year- old Brooke?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our focus in this investigation is to find Brooke Bennett safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A disturbing twist in the search for Brooke Bennett. She`s the 12-year-old girl missing in Vermont since last Wednesday, who authorities are now calling her uncle, Michael Jacques, a person of interest. Jacques is a registered sex offender. He was also one of the last people to see her alive. He dropped her off at a convenience store. As you can see in this surveillance footage here, she went one way, he went the other. Well, cops arrested Jacques on sex charges not connected to Brooke but another girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I hope and what we all hope is that Brooke is safe somewhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, in the last hours, North Carolina police announce the death of a gorgeous 23-year-old Army specialist seven months pregnant is murder, Megan Lynn Touma found dead in the bathtub of a local hotel. Sources now reveal the sign of the zodiac written in lipstick on a mirror at the hotel murder scene. A letter surfaces taunting police, claiming credit, allegedly bearing the same zodiac sign. Police now reveal a person of interest. Military detectives join forces with police, the Army conducting a highly unusual second autopsy. Touma, absent from a mandatory check-in at Ft. Bragg, never reported AWOL. Did that one glitch cost her her life?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. Army says a fellow soldier is a person of interest in the death of a pregnant servicewoman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This person is someone who was in training at Ft. Bragg, and that is exactly where Megan Touma had also been reassigned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The body of 23-year-old Army specialist Megan Touma was found at a motel in Fayetteville, North Carolina. She was seven months pregnant. Authorities are treating her death as homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was one autopsy done by the medical examiner here in this state. Whatever they have learned from that autopsy, it wasn`t enough for them to go out and come ahead and say to us that, hey, yes, in fact, she was murdered.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Someone claiming to be the killer sent this letter to a Fayetteville newspaper. In it, the writer calls the murder a masterpiece and claims he`s killed many times before and that there will be more to come. He goes on to taunt the police, calling them incompetent and saying he watched as investigators worked the scene. He says he signed the letter with his role model`s signature, the crosshairs of a gun scope, the same symbol the "zodiac killer" used to sign his letters in the late `60s. He was never caught. "The Fayetteville Observer" reports that the same symbol was written in lipstick on the mirror in the hotel room where Touma`s body was found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the search for a 12-year-old Vermont girl who vanishes into thin air, a stunning twist tonight. The investigation leads police straight to Brooke Bennett`s own uncle, now in jail on unrelated charges, sex assault on a minor. Where is 12-year-old Brooke?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are the last images taken of 12-year-old Brooke Bennett before she vanished in downtown Randolph. Bennett was last seen on this surveillance video at Cumberland Farms. She enters the store with her uncle. He purchases coffee and some cigarettes, and they leave the store. Brooke walks left, her uncle goes right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The uncle of a missing 12-year-old Vermont girl is set to be arraigned on sex charges unrelated to her disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alleged victim says he assaulted her over the past five years and stopped just a few weeks ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators are looking into the possibility that there may be more victims of sexual abuse by Jacques. The state police would like to speak to any child or teenager who may have been in contact with Michael Jacques.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Michael Jacques now behind bars with a bond on unrelated sex assault charges on yet another minor girl.
Out to Sue Allen, editor of "The Barre-Montpelier Times Argus." Sue, what`s the latest?
SUE ALLEN, "BARRE-MONTPELIER TIMES ARGUS": Well, the latest is -- and you`ve asked the million-dollar question, where is 12-year-old Brooke Bennett? She was last seen Wednesday morning when her uncle dropped her off at a convenience store, as you showed on your video earlier. She was reported missing -- this is Wednesday morning about 9:00 o`clock. She`s reported missing Wednesday night by her grandmother.
Thursday morning, the public is first alerted to her disappearance. State police put out a press release saying that she had not been located. Thursday evening, they put out an Amber Alert about 5:00 PM. It`s the first Amber Alert ever issued in Vermont, so it was a very big deal in this small state, as you might imagine.
Police initially had linked the disappearance to what they thought was a MySpace visit that she might have made, a contact on the social networking Internet site. That seems to have perhaps changed over the last few days.
The search for her started in a little town called Brookfield near here, where some of her clothing items were found by a lake, Sunset Lake. And divers were diving in the lake, looking for Brooke or presumably maybe more items that would give them some clues as to her disappearance. They were hoping to do some aerial searches, but we`ve had poor weather over the weekend, so that wasn`t possible.
Sunday night about 10:24, the police put out another press release that changed the whole focus of the case, that her uncle, who had dropped her off at that store on Wednesday morning -- he`s 42 years old and his name is Michael Jacques and he lives in nearby Randolph -- that he had been arrested on Sunday on unrelated sex charges, aggravated sexual assault. And that changed the entire focus of the investigation.
GRACE: You know, I want you to take a look, Chad Payne. Chad Payne is joining us out of Atlanta. He`s a former Butts County sheriff`s officer. Chad, do you notice -- it`s my understanding -- and with us tonight is Brooke`s father and we`re about to speak to him. We are taking your calls live.
Chad, do you and Pat Brown notice, he`s supposed to be dropping the little girl off to meet a friend. That`s the story. Then why does she leave the 7-Eleven, if she`s supposed to meet the friend there, and he goes one way and she goes the other? It appears to me, Chad, to be extremely contrived.
CHAD PAYNE, FORMER BUTTS COUNTY DEPUTY SHERIFF: Yes, it does, Nancy. If she was going to meet the person there, we should be able to see it on the video and we should see her get in the car with them and leave.
GRACE: And what about it, Pat Brown?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, it does look contrived. On the other hand, Nancy, it seems kind of odd that she would go along with some kind of play action with her uncle thinking that -- with the camera watching. So it doesn`t quite make sense. I think she did leave for some other reason. Whether he circled back to get her or whether he was posing on the Net as a predator, you know, she didn`t know it was actually uncle, or whether somebody else has got her, we don`t know yet.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got with me right here an affidavit, Pat Brown, in the prior sex assault on a minor charges. And in fact, the Internet was allegedly used on a minor girl. This little girl, who we will not name tonight, was told that she was a candidate for the "Breckenridge school of sex." She was 9 years old. The little girl allegedly received letters and e-mails threatening not only her but her mother if she did not go along with the "school."
And according to this affidavit, signed by police under oath, every sex act that you can imagine as a grown lady and criminologist, Pat Brown, was done on this child by this man, according to this affidavit. And this is the man little Brooke Bennett was alone with in the car.
So in fact, Pat Brown, according to this affidavit in a prior case, he did use the Internet. So maybe the Internet was used in this case. I don`t want to -- I don`t want to discount the original kneejerk reaction about MySpace and Internet suspicions.
BROWN: Exactly, because it`s very possible that he went on there as (INAUDIBLE) posing as someone else to then become her teacher, but maybe as a younger person so she`d be more accepting of him. Perhaps she was moving away from him and he decided he`d have a new plan. And these guys love to pretend that they`re going to help this girl along into her future sexual life. And so it`s very possible, yes, he went on there and posed as somebody else, and she really thought she was going to meet somebody younger, but he knew darn well who she was going to meet. So they`re going to have to look at that very, very carefully.
GRACE: With me right now is Jim Bennett. This is 12-year-old Brooke`s father. He`s joining us from Bethel, Vermont. Mr. Bennett, thank you for being with us.
JIM BENNETT, FATHER OF MISSING GIRL: Good evening.
GRACE: Mr. Bennett, I know you are distraught and there are no words to describe what you are going through. Do you feel that police are making any headway?
BENNETT: It sounds like they have a lot of leads, but they`re not really giving me any details.
GRACE: Now, Mr. Bennett, it`s my understanding that Brooke had not been with you for that week or maybe a period of days before her disappearance. I know that you and her mother are not living together, and she was with her mother at the time she got the ride with the uncle. Is that correct?
BENNETT: Yes. She lives with her mother.
GRACE: Can I ask you, Mr. Bennett, why the mom would allow a 12-year- old girl alone in the car with a sex offender?
BENNETT: I don`t know. I know his previous charges were from a long time ago.
GRACE: From 1993. He got 10 years.
BENNETT: Yes. And he has other children with Brooke`s aunt. So I don`t -- I don`t know all the circumstances, I guess.
GRACE: It`s very disturbing that she would be left in the supervision of a convicted sex offender. Do we have any idea, Mr. Bennett -- with me is little Brooke`s father, speaking out today and asking for your help. Everyone, the tip line to Vermont State Police 802-234-9933.
Mr. Bennett, do we have any idea whether there was truth to her story that she was meeting a little friend there at the convenience store?
BENNETT: Not that I`m aware of. I haven`t heard anybody that can confirm that story.
GRACE: So she made the little story up. But why? It`s my understanding she has no history of misbehaving, running away from home, lying. Is that correct?
BENNETT: Nothing -- nothing like this.
GRACE: What was her demeanor, Mr. Bennett?
BENNETT: Pretty much your average pre-teen, pretty easy-going most of the time.
GRACE: Did she like the computer? Was she on the computer a lot?
BENNETT: Not a lot, but she did like it. All of her friends are on it, so it was a social network for her, for all her friends.
GRACE: I understand at this age, it`s huge, the instant messaging, the texting. Did she have a cell phone?
BENNETT: She did.
GRACE: Did she have it with her that day?
BENNETT: No. She left it at home.
GRACE: It`s my understanding also that some articles of her clothing were found along the highway. Do they match the outfit she`s wearing in this video?
BENNETT: I don`t know that. They`re not -- they`re not giving...
GRACE: They`re not revealing that. Not revealing that. Sir, if you could speak out right now to whoever took or has Brooke, what would you say?
BENNETT: We love our little girl and we just want her back. If she`s somewhere where she can call us or the people that she`s with can call us, call us and we`ll come and get her. We don`t care where she is. We just want her back.
GRACE: Mr. Bennett, when did you last see her?
BENNETT: Three weeks ago.
GRACE: When did you find out that she was missing?
BENNETT: Wednesday night about 10:00 PM.
GRACE: I bet that`s a call you`ll never forget.
BENNETT: Yes, it`s not something that any parent should have to go through.
GRACE: So to your knowledge, what are police trying to do right now to find your girl?
BENNETT: From any indication I get, they`re doing everything they can. They have a lot of resources out there. And I understand the FBI is involved.
GRACE: Again, everyone, that tip line, 802-234-9933. With us, little Brooke`s father speaking out.
We are taking your calls. Out to Mary in California. Hi, Mary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, friend.
GRACE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My questions have been answered. But I do have another one. Is this her biological uncle, or is he an uncle by marriage?
GRACE: Mr. Bennett, isn`t he by marriage? Isn`t he married to the mother`s sister?
BENNETT: Yes, that`s correct.
GRACE: So that is by marriage, Mary in California.
Out to Albert in Kentucky. Hi, Albert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, if he`s found guilty in this case, the uncle, will his previous case be used against him for punishment or sentencing purposes?
GRACE: You`re talking about the current case, where he`s wanted on another sex attack on a minor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.
GRACE: It would most likely come in. That`s what we call a similar transaction. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us out of Atlanta, veteran trial lawyer Greg McKeithen. Out of Washington, D.C., Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney. Christopher, what about it?
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it will definitely come in both at sentencing, and I would think, at any trial. As you know, Nancy, I mean, if he gets convicted of this, anything he did in the past is going to be right there in front of the judge or the jury who hands down the sentence to see what he`s done before and really mete out the appropriate punishment.
GRACE: Of course, in a lot of jurisdictions -- I you know, don`t know where you guys are practicing law, but in a lot of jurisdictions, unless it`s a death penalty case, the judge decides sentencing, and from the get- go, the judge has the case file in front of him and has the rap sheet, whether they admit that they`re taking it into account or not.
But Greg McKeithen, Christopher is correct. It would definitely be a part of a sentencing hearing, if there would be one. But what about coming in as a similar transaction in the case in chief in front of the jury?
GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s very much possible. Nancy, I can tell you, as a former prosecutor, I would often file those motions. But now, as a defense attorney, of course, I would seek to have that evidence excluded and argue to the court that it`s not relevant, that it`s not probative, that its value is not fair in this case, and seek to have it excluded.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Marc Klaas, president of Beyondmissing. What about it, Marc? Weigh in.
MARC KLAAS, BEYONDMISSING.COM: I`m very upset here, and I`d like to speak to Mr. Bennett for a moment. As an individual who is the father of a 12-year-old girl who was living with her mother and disappeared in 1993, I can tell you, sir, that this child needs a friend right now.
There has been massive irresponsibility shown on the side of her mother. And if you get her back, get her in your custody because these people do not deserve to have this child. She never should have been allowed to go with that convicted sex offender alone in a car. That never should have happened. She always should have her cell phone with her. Nobody should have waited 12 hours before reporting her missing.
And finally, I would say make sure that you completely and fully cooperate with law enforcement as they investigate this and fully cooperate with the media, as you are doing with Nancy tonight. And don`t let them take their finger off of this guy, Uncle Mike, because he`s got a lot of problems and a lot of accounting to do.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s such a small town, and you would think that nothing would happen here, so it`s kind of, like, scary because it really can happen to anyone anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know when I first think of Randolph, I don`t think it`s, like, an unsafe place, but there`s always, like, that little possibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Late Saturday into early Sunday morning, information was developed as a result of forensic examination of computers to help us change the direction of this investigation. As a result of that, Michael Jacques became a person of interest into the disappearance of Brooke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And now it is revealed that the uncle that dropped her off, that you`re seeing in the grainy surveillance video we`re showing you right now, is a sex offender, a convicted sex offender tonight behind bars on yet another alleged assault on a little girl. And if you could read this affidavit, you`d be just as sick as I am. I can`t even tell you on air what he`s charged with on this little girl, starting at age 9 -- 9 years old. That`s who Brooke Bennett was with at the time just before she disappeared.
Out to the lines. Jennifer in Missouri. Hi, Jennifer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just wondering, had anybody else noticed that on the store security camera, that Brooke`s body language, her demeanor, doesn`t look like she`s comfortable with him? Her arms are crossed the entire time. It doesn`t look like she even says good-bye when they exit out the store, and I think that that speak volumes.
GRACE: Jennifer in Missouri, you`re absolutely correct. It reminds me of the video we saw of the -- Shasta Groene when she was in the little store video. What about it, Dr. Robi?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes, you know, I agree with this caller. She`s a natural body language expert. The girl in this picture -- she looks uncomfortable and like she`s trying to protect herself. So she obviously is not comfortable with what is going on...
GRACE: There`s Shasta there. We`re going to play that again. That`s Shasta of Shasta and Dylan Groene. See her walking around with her arms folded in much the similar position?
LUDWIG: Trying to create a boundary between her and this man that she`s with. I find it very disturbing that the mother would allow her child to be with a convicted sex offender. And the only theory I can come up with is perhaps the mother had a sex offender in her history. Maybe the father -- her father was a sex offender. After all, it`s her sister who`s married to this person. And we can see intergenerational patterns going on.
GRACE: Now, I don`t have any record on the father.
LUDWIG: Well, this would be on the mother, so this would be the maternal grandfather. It`s just a theory. It`s just something I`m throwing out there. Because why would somebody be so desensitized to somebody who is a convicted sex offender? Any mother knows that...
GRACE: Take a look at that body language, Dr. Robi.
LUDWIG: Yes. Yes, it`s very clear...
GRACE: Jennifer in Missouri is correct.
LUDWIG: ... yes, that this is not a comfortable situation for her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, I`m upset. We just want her home. We want her back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The alleged victim said he assaulted her over the past five years and stopped just a few weeks ago. The girl told police that she was selected for some sex program, I`m quoting here, and Jacques was to be her trainer. It even gets more creepy. She says two other girls were also in the program and that they were told, quote, "The first who does it lives, the second gets her throat cut."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is the chaperone the 12-year-old was allowed to be with.
Now, Dr. Robi, you threw out a very interesting theory as to why the biological mom of this little girl would allow her to be with a sex offender, a convicted sex offender. There they are with the sex offender. And you mentioned sex abuse in the family, but you don`t have any suggestion or any shred of evidence to suggest anybody else in the family has a sex history, right?
LUDWIG: No. Right. I`m not suggesting one person.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Mary in Massachusetts. Hi, Mary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, hi, Nancy. I`d like to know why this guy is allowed open and free contact with children and...
GRACE: I`d like to know, too. Back to Brooke`s father. Mr. Bennett, why? Why was she with a convicted sex offender?
BENNETT: Well, his wife is Brooke`s aunt and the kids are her cousins. She spends a lot of time with the girls.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That pregnant soldier found dead in a hotel near Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, well, her death has now been ruled a homicide. Army investigators have officially joined the investigation trying to find out who killed Specialist Megan Touma. Her body was found in a bathtub.
Well, now there`s even at person of interest in that case -- a fellow soldier.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This person, we now understand, is someone who is training at Ft. Bragg. She was serving at same Ft. Bragg, stationed at the same place where this person of interest is now stationed as well.
And you also have a letter from someone claiming to be the killer and giving an alleged confession.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The person calls the murder a, quote, "masterpiece," and threatens to kill again. At the bottom of the letter is a symbol like the one used by the Zodiac Killer, the serial murder from the 1960s who was never caught.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Adding to the mystery, police documents show a "Do Not Disturb" sign had been on Touma`s door on four days. Touma was scheduled to check out the morning her body was found.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Out to Bryan Mims with WRAL joining us right there in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
Bryan, a lot of updates. First, tell me about sources revealing the zodiac sign written in lipstick and a hotel murder scene.
BRYAN MIMS, REPORTER, WRAL: Police are making it clear that they think this note was intended to mislead police. They have said flat out they do not think a serial killer is on the loose in Fayetteville. They think that this is just a ruse to mislead police and have them look in places that are not relevant to the murder investigation.
But, indeed, they did find a sign resembling crosshairs in a rifle scope on the mirror, on the bathroom mirror in that hotel room where Touma was staying.
GRACE: Let`s see the sign, Elizabeth.
Gurnall Scott, what`s the likelihood, then, if it`s on the letter, the letter that was sent to police claiming credit -- what`s the likelihood that`s not connected to the same markings written in lipstick at the murder scene on a mirror?
GURNALL SCOTT, REPORTER, WPTF RADIO: Well, as Bryan just said, I mean they believe that this note is meant to mislead. Now, the fact that the same marking is on the letter that was on the mirror, the police are going to look at this. The army investigators are going to look at this.
But, again, police are sticking to their guns, basically saying that they are continuing to think that this letter was entirely meant to mislead and perhaps draw attention from the police and the media on where this case should go.
GRACE: Out to Chad Payne joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, former Butts County sheriff`s officer.
Chad, if it`s true, if it`s true that this same marking was found at the murder scene written in lipstick and then this letter pops up with the same zodiac sign, they`ve got to be connected, if it`s true that it was at the murder scene.
CHAD PAYNE, FMR. BUTTS CO. SHERIFF`S OFFICER: No, I don`t think it has to be connected, Nancy.
GRACE: So somebody just dreamed it up?
PAYNE: Well, if you go back and study the Zodiac Killer, he used Morse code symbols, he used different zodiac signs and things like that.
GRACE: Don`t care. Don`t care what he did two decades ago. I care that it`s at the murder scene. Somebody left it there. And it`s on a letter.
And am I the crazy one that nobody sees a connection there?
PAYNE: Again, I think it`s to throw the police off. I think it`s an effort to do that.
GRACE: OK. Pat Brown, how would the author of the letter know about the sign on the mirror?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": Well, here`s my theory, Nancy.
GRACE: OK.
BROWN: I think you are correct. I think it is the one and same guy and I also think the police are correct it`s meant to mislead. I think what happened is, this is a man who knows Miss Touma, somebody`s connected with her, he killed her, probably strangled her, left the scene.
When he realized they were coming to look for him he said I`ve got to distract the police. They`re going to come right to my door, went back to the scene, probably had the key, , went back in, made his little zodiac sign, came back out, and said, hey, look, the Zodiac Killer -- somebody like him is out there again. It`s a serial killer.
And there`s evidence in the letter that shows it is a military man because he had two -- interesting things. One, September -- excuse me 17 June, not June 17th, like a local boy would write, but 17 June like a military person would write or somebody from Europe.
And he also writes, "The following is to inform." This is a very legalistic, police or military style of informing the public. This is not a local boy. It`s a military man and he is trying to mislead, trying to say it`s not me. It`s some serial killer out here.
GRACE: And this theory only holds up that the two are connected if, in fact, that sign is at the murder scene written in lipstick on a mirror. That`s what sources are saying. Have we confirmed that with police? Police refuse to comment on it.
Gurnall Scott with WPTF Radio -- Gurnall, what can me about a person of interest?
SCOTT: Well, the person of interest is believed to be someone in the military. However, the military has gone on record saying to protect the integrity of this investigation, they are not going to release any names of anyone that they`ve interviewed. And from the indications that we`ve gotten from the Fayetteville police, and they`re saying that the Army Criminal Investigation Unit is involved.
They say they`re not going to release any names of anyone they talk to. But we do know over the weekend they did say there was a person of interest that they were talking to and this investigation was slanted toward them at that point.
GRACE: Back to Bryan Mims with WRAL joining us there in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
Bryan, what can you tell me about a second autopsy being conducted by the military?
MIMS: The body is now in the custody of the military right now. A police spokesman here in Fayetteville says that`s because the Armed Services Institute of Pathology has some advanced technology, supplemental technology that will help -- that deals with cases of this magnitude. So that`s about all police are saying to that end. But a second autopsy is indeed under way.
GRACE: Pat Brown, what would they have that a local medical examiner would not have?
BROWN: Well, I think is -- he`s talking about -- he`s looking at something, a very decomposed body, and she`s not -- likely not shot or stabbed, most likely strangled, they`re looking at the.
GRACE: I can guarantee that she`s strangled.
BROWN: Yes, looking at the throat and trying to see if you can prove anything in that particular region.
GRACE: Out to New Jersey medical examiner Dr. Zhongxue Hua -- everyone, we are taking your calls live.
Dr. Hua, with a body in a decomposed state with advanced equipment, what can they determine?
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION CO., N.J. MEDICAL EXAMINER: Not really -- I mean, the presumptive -- my presumptions that the (INAUDIBLE) it`s hard to interpret this autopsy and ask was there some presumptive deficiency of the first autopsy, need first clarification to do a second autopsy and it`s an invasive procedure for the family and society in general.
GRACE: To Tim Susanin, former Navy JAG joining us out of Philadelphia.
Tim, very unusual, the army CID now jointly involved in the investigation. What does that mean and what can they offer?
TIM SUSANIN, FORMER NAVY JAG: Well, I guess it is unusual because most crimes like this happen in a single jurisdiction and because we have a victim who is military and possibly a perpetrator who is military, the army is an overlapping jurisdiction, if you will.
And what do they offer, Nancy? The army offers access -- access to this person of interest, who really is the suspect at this point. The army offers access to friends of Megan`s back on her base in Germany, who gave the tip to the authorities that she was engaged and perhaps had asked for orders to Ft. Bragg as she did in February to follow her fiance.
This is the kind of inside knowledge and access that the police in Fayetteville can`t offer as readily as the army can.
GRACE: Back to Chad Payne. Chad, how possible is it to identify this letter, for instance, by batch, by lot, where it came from, the typewriter? What can we learn from the letter and the envelope?
PAYNE: Well, it is going to be very difficult, Nancy, to trace this letter back based on the fibers of the paper itself. Now, if it`s a fine coarse paper it`s much harder to do. But if it`s a rough edge as in bonding paper or what have you, you can trace the fibers much easier.
Again, it`s a long process. Also, the FBI is in the premature stages of studying touch DNA where your DNA may leave perspiration or even skin cells on there.
GRACE: You know, Chad, hey, I don`t think you need touch. You got a stamp. You know, licky, licky DNA. Thoughts?
PAYNE: Well, if it`s -- the new type of stamps don`t require you to lick them.
GRACE: Oh, foiled again. You outsmarted me, Chad Payne.
Out to the lines, Roz in Ohio. Hi, Roz.
ROZ, OHIO RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear? What`s your question?
ROZ: I`ve watched you forever since day one on Court TV.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much.
ROZ: Yes.
GRACE: Can you believe that`s been over 10 years now?
ROZ: I`ve watched you through your lows and your highs.
GRACE: And there were plenty of them.
ROZ: Yes. And when you held Daniel over his hands through his low, I watched you through the whole thing. You`re the best.
GRACE: Thank you, love.
ROZ: Anyway, this zodiac sign, I remember that -- the zodiac serial killer, he shot people. That`s what I remember of him.
GRACE: I think you`re absolutely correct. So Marc Klaas, I mean, it can`t be the same person. Roz in Ohio is correct. So what do you make of the letter?
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, BEYONDMISSING.COM, FURTHER OF MURDER VICTIM POLLY KLAAS: Well, actually it very well could be the same person because the zodiac was never caught, as you know. But I agree with Pat. I think that this is misdirection by the killer himself. Maybe the CSI team can get something off of the letter or the envelope.
I certainly believe that this will be solved, though. I don`t think this guy is nearly as clever as he thinks he is.
GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, let me ask you again to please offer up your prayers and your good thoughts for veteran defense attorney, one of the best lawyers in the state of New York, and friend, defense attorney Sandy Schiff.
She is in the fight of a lifetime -- no, not in the courtroom. She`s had a setback in her battle with leukemia and she is back in the hospital.
Sandy, I know you`re listening. Please come back to us soon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You have a pregnant soldier found dead. Not sure how she died. You have a person of interest who is a fellow soldier. And you also have a letter from someone claiming to be the killer and giving an alleged confession.
It just gets stranger and stranger, so many twists and turns to the story with no real concrete evidence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Mary Jo in Ohio. Hi, Mary Jo.
MARY JO, OHIO RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I love the twins and I love you and I never miss your show, dear.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you for calling.
MARY JO: And I`m praying for Sandra.
GRACE: Thank you. I`m going to pass that on to her. I spoke to her today. Thank you.
MARY JO: Super.
GRACE: What`s your question, love?
MARY JO: OK. My theory is; has anybody thought about the fact that the ex-husband could possibly be the real father of the child and that set this whole thing in motion?
GRACE: Mary Jo, the first thing I thought of is the ex or a current boyfriend. And it`s my understanding -- out to Gurnall Scott of WPTF radio -- the ex-husband was about 2 1/2 hours away in South Carolina at the time, right?
SCOTT: That is what we`re understanding. He did an interview with the local television station. He is in Charleston, South Carolina, has been working there as a detention employee with the Department of Correction down there.
And he said on camera -- in an on-camera interview he is not the father of the child. However, it was his understanding that Megan Touma wanted to name that child after him.
That raised a couple of red flags in the investigation, but he has continued to maintain that he is not the father of that child.
GRACE: And to Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and author, bottom line is, in this day and age, everybody has seen "CSI," everybody has watched TV and seen murder mysteries -- spouses, ex-spouses, boyfriends, lovers -- they should all expect to be suspect number one. It`s not picking on him.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR OF "TILL DEATH DO US PART": No. It`s just the person who`s most likely to be enraged and have murderous feelings towards you or somebody.
GRACE: Or any feelings for you, period.
LUDWIG: Or any feeling. This is an intimate partner. Having said that, you know, you have to rule out it`s not always them and there are other people out there.
GRACE: Absolutely.
Out to the lines, Camille in Canada. Hi, Camille.
CAMILLE, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CAMILLE: I was just wondering about the surveillance if there`s any footage of the hotel. And I`m also a big Pat Brown fan, as well, so I agree with everything has said so far.
GRACE: I`ll make sure I don`t disagree with her tonight, Camille, since you`re watching.
To Bryan Mims, what do we know about surveillance video?
MIMS: Police are not saying anything about surveillance video. Presumably there is some. If there is, indeed, some surveillance video police would try to obtain that. But we have no word from police, any investigators, about surveillance video that was seized from the hotel.
GRACE: To Jeannie in Michigan, hi, Jeannie.
JEANNIE, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just called to tell you that we just love you and the twins are just absolutely adorable.
GRACE: Thank you.
JEANNIE: And I was just wondering where`s the fiance in all this?
GRACE: Where is the fiance? Fiance? Gurnall Scott, how about it? We`ve heard that she was engaged. We understand that she asked to be transferred to Ft. Bragg. What do we know?
SCOTT: Well, to be quite honest, we don`t know much, because if -- and if I`m not mistaken here, as far as the army and the military is concerned, unless they are married, the military isn`t obligated to know any facts about any relationship that goes on.
So really they aren`t giving up any information on a boyfriend or fiance if it were the case.
GRACE: But what about friend, Bryan Mims? Bryan with WRAL joining us there in Fayetteville, North Carolina. What about friends, anybody that she knew? Certainly, I mean, she`s not -- she`s seven months pregnant. Somebody at some point probably asked, who`s the daddy?
MIMS: One would think that people would be talking about that and friends would be coming forward. But we haven`t heard that. So far, it`s been silent on that front. The "Fayetteville Observer" reported a couple of days ago, Thursday, I believe, that somebody claiming to have known Megan Touma said that she was indeed engaged to be married, was excited about coming to Ft. Bragg.
GRACE: Right.
MIMS: . and reuniting with her fiance but we have not gotten independent confirmation of that.
GRACE: Bryan.
MIMS: So we haven`t heard from.
GRACE: Bryan, very quickly, I understand that the military is questioning someone. Is it someone that had been stationed with her in the past?
MIMS: Police are not confirming that. We have heard a number of tips, reports that.
GRACE: Yes, no?
MIMS: .he did serve in Germany at the same time as Specialist Touma.
GRACE: OK.
MIMS: But they`re not saying.
GRACE: Can`t confirm.
Out to the lines, Loretta in Virginia. Hi, Loretta.
LORETTA, VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
LORETTA: What about the envelope? He had to lick the envelope to seal it.
GRACE: You know what, what about that, Pat Brown?
BROWN: Well, I think he could just use some sponge and some water personally. But I want to mention the fiance. When that woman comes down, she`s excited to come see her honey. You know? What`s the first thing she`s going to do? She`s going to call and say, guess what, honey, I`m in town. Here`s the motel I`m in.
She`s not going to call her ex-husband and her -- him where she`s at. She`s going to call the boyfriend. So the facts that he never has said anything, you know, makes me wonder if he didn`t show up that night and that is the one they`re looking at.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Greg McKeithen out of Atlanta, Christopher A. Mulch(ph), out of Washington, they`re calling someone a person of interest, Christopher.
Now, you know, 20 years ago there wasn`t even such of a thing as a person of interest. They`re not calling him a suspect. What`s the difference?
CHRISTOPHER A. MULCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think a person of interest is somebody the police think probably did it but just can`t quite put their finger on it yet.
GRACE: Greg?
GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I concur. I think from my perspective I would tell my client if he`s a person of interest, speak to me before you make any statements at this point. The line of demarcation is very thin.
Yes, no talking.
GRACE: And to you, Tim Susanin, former Navy JAG, joining us out of Philadelphia, do you think a person of interest is like a suspect light? Because once you name somebody a suspect or a target, all their constitutional rights apply?
SUSANIN: Well, I think there are two things going on. First, I think person of interest is a little more broad. It`s kind of like the target suspect we see in the federal system. In other words, we hear from sources they`re talking to several persons of interest and that could include the fiance who`s probably the suspect, as well as friends of Megan.
But the bigger point here is, unlike the Lauterbach investigation, the authorities are keeping their mouths shut, which is the right way to go about and investigate this case. We don`t know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Stunning revelations in the murder of a seven-month pregnant military specialist.
Out to Loretta in Virginia? Hi, Loretta.
Uh-oh. Lelinda, Alaska. Hi, Lelinda.
LELINDA, ALASKA RESIDENT: Hey there, Nancy. I just turned your show on and I`m not up to date as to what`s going on. But what I did see was the number 143, the hotel room there.
GRACE: Yes.
LELINDA: And it`s -- to my understanding that 143 can sometimes mean "I Love You." I was wondering, had anybody thought of that, and if -- I don`t know -- is Zodiac Killer, whatever? Is that a possible message?
GRACE: Gurnall Scott, what about it?
SCOTT: That is the first I`ve heard of that. I -- the police have not said anything for sure as to if there was a meaning to the hotel room number.
GRACE: Right.
SCOTT: But I`m sure that could possibly be a theory that they may want to explore.
GRACE: Out to Chris in Michigan.
CHRIS, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hello.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
CHRIS: I just tuned into your show today. The people look tight. You know, since the paper have they tried to print it, have they tried to narrow it down to the tool marks, the type of printer or typewriter that was used to type it?
GRACE: Excellent question. How would they go about doing that, Pat Brown?
BROWN: Well, unfortunately, today most of it is computer and it`s very, very difficult to trace. They`re going to have a hard time with that one.
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Casey Casanova, 22, McComb, Michigan -- McComb, Mississippi, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart. Lost her life just hours after her last phone call home to her father. Had the voice of an angel. Loved singing the national anthem at marine functions, playing drums, line dancing. Dreams of a fairy tale wedding to her fiance and becoming a nurse.
Leaves behind parents Paula and Chris, two sisters, fiance Brandon, also serving the Marines.
Casey Casanova, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us and a special good night from friends of the show and author, Stephanie Hirsh, the author of "Mother Nurture," with us tonight.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
