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Campbell Brown
Hostages Rescued From Colombian Rebel Group; McCain Campaign Shakeup; Questioning Obama's Iraq Plan
Aired July 02, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The last two hours have been filled with urgent breaking news, a dramatic hostage release, including three Americans and a French Colombian politician held captive by rebels in Colombia for more than five years.
For U.S. politics, the timing is a fascinating coincidence.
First, let's get right to the details. With U.S. support, Colombia's military rescued 15 hostages, including the three Americans and one-time Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt. You can see her there at a Bogota military base about 90 minutes ago.
She was kidnapped back in February of 2002. The three Americans are U.S. government contractors captured when their plane crashed into Colombia back in 2003. Marc Gonsalves, Thomas Howes, and Keith Stansell will be arriving in San Antonio, Texas, in just a few hours.
Now, the daring rescue comes the same day Republican presidential candidate John McCain and two other senators were in Colombia. We now know Colombian officials briefed them about the raid to free the hostages before it happened.
We're also just learning the U.S. government tipped off Colombia to the hostages' whereabouts.
There are so many late-breaking details to get to. Let's get first what you need to know.
The hostages were held by a group calling itself the Revolutionary Armed Forces in Colombia, known by its initial in Spanish, FARC. The rebel group, which was founded 43 year ago, is one of the world's most violent and ruthless military forces. The U.S. considers FARC a terrorist organization.
Today's rescue occurred in eastern Colombia. Government commandos apparently fooled the hostages' guards, who thought they were transferring the captives to other members of the rebel group. The commandos took the hostages away in helicopters, apparently without even firing a shot, and then flew them to safety.
Randi Kaye is here with more on the hostages and this remarkable rescue -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really was remarkable.
And one of the hostages, as you mentioned, one of the freed hostages, is Ingrid Betancourt. She was a Colombian presidential candidate when she was taken hostage six years ago. She had been campaigning in FARC territory. Last year, we saw a video of her. She appeared near death.
But she just shared the dramatic details of the rescue. It is straight out of the movies, so dramatic, a great tale of bait and switch, Colombian military posing as FARC rebels.
Now, here's how it unfolded. Betancourt speaks French, so I'm going to read to you what she said, so you can see the drama in it.
"When the helicopters arrived, there were these characters that walked out, absolutely surreal, some men who were dressed with these logos and these things that identified them to be delegates of who knows what. I would look at them, and thought, who are these people? I saw that they had shirts on. And I thought, this is FARC? This is not a help brigade. This is nothing.
When we loaded the helicopter, very frustrated, because we were handcuffed, I did not even want to speak with the people who were there. They closed the helicopter doors. Suddenly, I saw the command that, during so many years, four years, was at the head of our team, that so many times was so cruel and humiliated me so much, I saw him on the floor, naked, with bound eyes. The chief of operations, said, 'We are the national army, and you are all free.' And the helicopter almost fell because we started jumping" -- such drama unfolding in the sky -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: An incredible story.
What does she want to happen to her captors, like the man bound and gagged naked in the back of the chopper?
KAYE: Well, you know, we hear so much about this Stockholm Syndrome when we cover a lot of these hostage stories, where some of these people would actually want to protect the people who had taken them.
So, she actually pleaded for the lives today of the guards who kept her captive. She told the FARC leadership that the rescue was not their fault. And she asked that these guards not be held responsible -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Yet another amazing angle of this story.
Randi Kaye for us tonight -- Randi, thank you.
A really remarkable aspect of the story is that the information that led Colombia's armed forces to the hostages today apparently came from the U.S. government.
For that part of the story, let's get right to CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry.
Hey, Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, good evening.
We do have some new information -- one senior U.S. official telling us that, recently, the U.S. government did obtain some intelligence that helped pinpoint the location of where these hostages were.
I'm told the U.S. then shared that intelligence with the Colombian government, and that they led the actual rescue mission with some support from the U.S. government, according to this official.
Now, the official would not be specific about what that support was, so as not to give up operational details. Obviously, FARC is still an organization that is still operating, that the U.S. still believes is a terror organization, as you said.
But we're led to believe that was more sort of logistical support, perhaps helicopters, equipment, not actual U.S. troops. President Bush was informed this afternoon about the successful rescue attempt. He called President Uribe, his Colombian counterpart.
We're told they have been working on this for years together behind the scenes in some of the planning of this rescue mission. There's euphoria in that building behind me tonight inside the White House, because this is a long time coming for them.
And one thing to look ahead to is the fact that the president right now has the Colombian free trade agreement that has stalled on Capitol Hill. He's been demanding Congress move on that -- Democrats telling me tonight on Capitol Hill that they do not expect this free trade deal to get revived, even despite this euphoria now about the successful rescue mission.
But the White House believes there is an opportunity, because the president has been making the case that the Colombian government can be trusted, and now he has some evidence that perhaps they can -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Ed Henry for us with another remarkable part of the story -- Ed, thanks.
CNN's Karl Penhaul is based in Colombia. He's keeping track of the latest developments as well tonight. He joins us by phone.
Karl, first, let's get a little more information about the details of this rescue. What do we know?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I certainly think that the details of this rescue will really filter out over the coming days, because this type of operation is really unprecedented by Colombian standards. The Colombian military has in the past tried to rescue guerrilla hostages.
And, by all accounts, those rescue attempts have generally failed, leading to the death of the hostages concerned, so, very dramatic, unprecedented that this operation, in fact, succeeded. According to , as Ed Henry saying there, the initial tipoff, some intelligence information comes from U.S. sources, that not too unusual because the U.S. military has long been providing the Colombian military with real-time intelligence. The U.S. military has also been involved for a number of years helping the Colombian military plan operations on the ground. That seems to have been what happened today.
But, then, by all accounts, according to Ingrid Betancourt's statement, she said that the first she knew of this operation was around dawn this morning, when they woke up and they -- one of the would-be captors ushered her to a clearing in the jungle, saying that they were going to be transferred to another area, where they would continue their captivity.
In fact, they were taken to helicopters. Ingrid Betancourt said she also saw some troops on the ground, but believed that they were guerrilla fighters. So, in fact, they were all, all the 15 hostages were ushered into the helicopter. And when that helicopter took off, then it became apparent that it had been a rescue operation.
Now, the head of the Colombian military says that this was a surveillance operation, followed up by infiltration. And it was an operation that had been going on for weeks, if not months.
O'BRIEN: Karl Penhaul joining us by phone from Colombia -- Karl, thank you.
We're going to hear from members of the men's, the American men's families next. This has been the day that they have been hoping for and praying for, for five agonizing years.
Also ahead, the impact of today's major defeat for one of the world's bloodiest terrorist organizations straight ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: And we're still following tonight's breaking news, 15 hostages, including three Americans, rescued in Colombia.
Now, most Americans know very little about the hostage takers. So, what is this rebel group that's known as FARC? What do they want?
Here again with some answers, CNN's Randi Kaye -- Randi.
KAYE: Well, what they want is money. They have been fund- raising for quite some time and with these coca fields. That's how they make their money. And they're into the drug business. And they also want hostages. That is their power against the Colombian government.
So, there's a little bit what we call FARC 101, we will call it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) KAYE (voice-over): Today, after more than five years in captivity, they are free.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you guys. And I'm just waiting to come home.
KAYE: This proof of life video was taken just months after Marc Gonsalves, Thomas Howes, and Keith Stansell were kidnapped by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, a guerrilla group that survives in the jungles and has been at war with the Colombian government for decades. It's blamed for hundreds of kidnappings, including police, politicians, and U.S. civilians.
The FARC was established in the 1960s as the wing of the Colombian Communist Party. It later became involved in the cocaine trade during the 1980s for the purposes of fund-raising. The American hostages were private contractors from Northrop Grumman working for the U.S. government.
In February 2003, their surveillance plane went down in FARC territory while surveying fields of coca , a key ingredient for cocaine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have lost engine. We are north 0203...
KAYE: The plane's pilot, an American, and a Colombian intelligence officer were shot to death execution-style.
The three surviving American contractors became hostages, joining an estimated 750 others, including Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt, now free after six years in captivity.
INGRID BETANCOURT, FORMER COLOMBIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (through translator): The helicopter almost fell because we started jumping. We cried. We screamed. We hugged. This is a miracle. And I want to share with all of you, because all of you suffered, my family, children, me. This is a moment of pride for all Colombians.
KAYE: Betancourt, a rising political star in Colombia, was kidnapped while campaigning for president in a FARC stronghold in 2002. This video was taken just hours before she disappeared. Last year, a video surfaced showing the three Americans and the presidential candidate, sickly, but alive.
JUAN CARLOS LECOMPTE, HUSBAND OF INGRID BETANCOURT: We are right now in an emergency. We cannot wait any longer, more months or more years. We can wait only weeks or days.
KAYE: Today, the prayers of the hostages' families were answered. But it's been an excruciating wait, with little movement. Marc Gonsalves' mother recently told me she had visited Colombia three times to urge the government to find her son.
JO ROSANO, MOTHER OF FARC HOSTAGE: I look around, I see all these moms. And I say, my son's somewhere up there. And I'm getting no help at all from this government, no help at all. KAYE: The U.S. considers FARC a terrorist group and has discouraged everyone from negotiating with them, including the contractors' employer and the Colombian government. But the families of the missing kept pressing and hoping.
Keith Stansell's daughter talked to CNN last year about her dream that she would some day be reunited with her father.
LAUREN STANSELL, DAUGHTER OF FARC HOSTAGE: It's going to be hard. He's missed a lot and there's so much to catch up on. But initially I just want to see him. I just want to hug him. I just want to hold him. I don't want to worry about catching up anything or telling him anything. I just want to hold my dad. I just want to be with him. I just want to be with him.
KAYE: A bait and switch before FARC ever knew what hit them -- not even the hostages families could have dreamed up that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: And you can see the relief on some of these...
(CROSSTALK)
KAYE: Such relief.
O'BRIEN: The hugs and the kisses.
So, what do we know about when those families will actually physically be reunited?
KAYE: Well, the last word that we're getting is that the American hostages should be back in Texas actually tonight at some point, maybe around 11:00 or so, or even midnight. And they will be at the Brooke Medical Center.
And this will be the first time in more than five years that these families are going to be able to hold each other and hug each other. They're going to be getting some physical treatment there, some mental health treatment there, for as long as they need it, we're told. So, it's going to be a very emotional evening.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: And going to be hard for the other 700 or so people whose...
KAYE: But it gives them hope, too, in a way. And when I talked with this mother, she never expected to see her son. And this does give them some hope that they will get out of there.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Randi, thank you very much.
Well, today's dramatic rescue in Colombia happened just as Republican presidential candidate John McCain was in that country. Senator McCain, along with Senators Lindsey Graham and Joe Lieberman, spent most of the day meeting with cob officials and doing a little bit of sight-seeing.
They have gone on now to Mexico. The senators learned of the raid's success only after their plane had taken off. An aide received a message on his BlackBerry.
McCain issued this statement. He said this: "I'm pleased with the succession of this very high-risk operation. It's great news. Now we must renew our efforts to free all the other innocent people held hostage."
The statement goes on: "Last night, Colombian President Uribe and the defense minister did brief us that the operation was going to take place today."
Senator Barack Obama has also issued this statement. He says: "I join with the families and the American people in celebrating the wonderful news that these three American citizens have been released from that terrorist organization that held them hostage for so many years."
And, as we have been reporting, the three freed Americans are expected to arrive at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas, in just a few hours. You're going to want to stay with CNN throughout the evening as this breaking story develops.
And take a look at this. The three men are contractors for Northrop Grumman. The company has already changed its Internet home page to celebrate their freedom.
Coming up tonight, much more on the breaking news about this hostage drama. The three Americans, as we said, due back in the U.S. in just a few hours. We are going to have more of the family reaction to their release.
That's straight ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: After years as hostages in the Colombian jungle, three freed American military contractors will be back in the U.S. in just a few hours.
CNN's John Zarrella joins us by phone from Bradenton, Florida, which is the home of the family of former hostage now Keith Stansell -- John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Soledad, you know, the light rain been falling here all afternoon, but certainly this drizzle cannot dampen the euphoria of the family of Gene and Lynne Stansell.
We're standing outside their home where they're flying the American flag and have been for years, certainly since their son was taken hostage. Now, they have not come out yet to speak with anyone. We have been told by neighbors in the area here that a couple members of the United States Army have gone inside and are inside talking with Gene and Lynne.
It's not known if they have plans to leave tonight or tomorrow to possibly fly to Texas to see their son. We don't know of any members of the family who will be leaving to do that.
Their -- his son, Keith's son, Kyle, did speak earlier today. And you can imagine his euphoria when he talked with a member of one of our affiliates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYLE STANSELL, SON OF FARC HOSTAGE: My stepdad calls me and tells me my dad's hope. I didn't even know what to do. I just started freaking out, screaming, yelling. And I ran as fast as I could off the beach. As far as we know, everything's going fine. I'm just ready to see my dad. I don't even know what to think as of right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: That's our affiliate Bay News 9 there getting that interview.
Now, Keith Stansell's girlfriend, Patricia, who he has not seen, he sent a note to her through a released hostage, asking her to marry him. She is a Colombian, Patricia, and she is the mother of two twins. And those are his children who he has not seen. So, certainly, one of the first priorities for Keith Stansell will be to be reunited with his girlfriend, soon, we assume, to be his wife, and his two young children, again, Soledad, who he has not ever seen -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All those family members want to get back together.
John Zarrella for us tonight -- thanks, John.
Coming up next in ELECTION CENTER: today's big shakeup in John McCain's camp. The senator is about to reinvent his campaign with just four months to go until the election. Is that a sign of deep trouble? Or is it exactly what he needs? We're going to have that story in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: And now to today's big shakeup of John McCain's campaign. It goes right to the top, after a series of campaign problems.
CNN's Dana Bash is following the McCain campaign in Washington tonight -- Dana
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Soledad, here's a bit of political trivia. Today is actually the anniversary of what McCain aides call black Monday, the day many in McCain's then large campaign staff were fired because McCain was in freefall. Now, this time, the changes are in response to concerns we have been hearing for months, that McCain and his campaign is not equipped to win the White House, that that is a big reason, Soledad, why this shakeup actually happened today.
It's kind of ironic that they slimmed down because he was in bad shape a year ago and today they're in bad shape because he doesn't have enough staff and is not fully equipped, many people have been telling us, for a long time, to launch the kind of general election campaign he has to launch.
O'BRIEN: So, someone looking at that, hopefully, Dana, might say, well, it worked the last time around. Maybe McCain version 3.0 can work. Where do people think he actually needs to focus the relaunch?
BASH: You know what, Soledad? Pretty much across the board. Just really in following John McCain around for the past many, many months, first of all, in terms of message, he had several examples of times where his message was basically muddled.
For example, just last month, he launched a TV ad. They paid for a TV ad saying that he's been challenging President Bush on climate change. Well, the very next day, he went to Texas and stood in Houston, oil country, and talked about the fact that he wants to -- now to drill offshore. That is something that puts him right in the lap of President Bush. So, that was definitely a mixed message.
Then you have structural issues inside the campaign. Many people looked at the kind of staffing up that they should have been doing for the past four months to really have staff in place across the country and a real sense of the nuts and bolts of what they need to run against Barack Obama or any Democrat. And they, instead, had something that was very decentralized.
So, that's one thing, that they are going to try to centralize and really beef up the really basic grassroots operation you need to run a presidential campaign...
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Forgive me for interrupting you there. But I was going to say, you certainly heard a lot of complaints from the RNC about how it's gone so far. So, give me a sense of who's in and who's out.
BASH: Well, it's interesting because Steve Schmidt is the man in charge now of day-to-day operations. He is somebody who has been with Senator McCain for many, many months now. He's actually been on the Straight Talk Express on the road.
But he quietly about a month ago, Soledad, came back to campaign headquarters and started putting a lot of these changes in place. He started bringing in a lot of the veterans, as he is, from the Bush reelection campaign in 2004. And he started to make changes in basic things, in scheduling, for example, that really had messed up the message. Senator McCain was giving speeches at 5:00 at night, after many newscasts had already happened, so little things like that. So, really, it's important to note that Steve Schmidt now is in charge of day-to-day operations.
But by formally making this announcement today, it is also a big -- the bigger reason they're doing it is to send a signal to worried Republicans. And there are a lot of worried Republicans out there. The signal is: We hear you. We get it. We are trying to make changes.
O'BRIEN: We will see how relaunch version 3.0 goes for the senator.
Dana Bash for us tonight -- Dana, thanks.
BASH: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Joining me tonight to talk a little bit more about the McCain campaign shakeup, Westwood One radio talk show host Lars Larson.
Nice to see you again.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: CNN political analyst Roland Martin, also a radio talk show host.
And right here, next to me at the ELECTION CENTER, Michael Crowley. He's a senior editor at "The New Republic," left-leaning political and culture magazine.
Lars, let's start with you. I always start with you, don't I? So, why not do it again?
LARS LARSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I like that, Soledad.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: You can pay me later.
Listen, we heard Dana a moment ago saying that she expects this relaunch 3.0. One, you got to think it's a good idea and a necessary idea. I think a lot of people believe that. But what's the number- one thing that has to be on his relaunch list, do you believe?
LARSON: I don't know. If it were me doing it, I would like to relaunch John McCain by having him reject the idea of amnesty for illegal aliens. I would like him to start advocating drilling for oil everywhere in America you can. Drill here. Drill now. Save Americans money. Let's hope those are some of the new messages coming out.
But I hate to disagree with the nice young lady, but to say that advocating for drilling for oil is putting him right in President Bush's lap? No, it's putting him right where Americans are most worried today. How do they fill their gas tanks and get to work? That's a good thing for the presidential candidate to be advocating.
O'BRIEN: Roland, we know that McCain has been now touring in Colombia, as we have been talk about all night, and also now in Mexico.
And people feel like, they get it. We get it. He's strong on foreign policy. At the same time, Barack Obama, that's actually an area where he's weak.
So, how -- you know, what's the -- is this going to highlight the difference? Maybe going overseas is a good idea. Makes him look stronger than Barack Obama, right?
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No, it doesn't make him look good, because, again, he's wasted the last four months.
He has been weak on the economy. Sure, he's talked about when it comes to continuing the cut tax, things along those lines, but he's wasted the opportunity. Today...
O'BRIEN: All right, obviously, either Roland just stopped talking or we have lost our satellite signal.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: Roland, we will get back to you in one second.
LARSON: Darn.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right back to Michael.
Listen, you know, I guess we heard about this guy Steve Schmidt, who's been involved in the campaign in the last month or so, certainly. Can he do it? Is he the guy for the job, do you think, and can he turn it around?
MICHAEL CROWLEY, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Well, look, people say that he is very tough, works feverishly hard, has a lot of respect among other operatives. He knows how the game is played. The question is he comes from the Republican Party apparatus, the sort of Karl Rove machine, is that what John McCain needs? I mean, John McCain flourishes when he's kind of -- when there's chaos around him, when he's having town hall meetings. And I saw him once in new Hampshire --
O'BRIEN: Yes but that might be interesting when you're the maverick candidate, the long shot. But when you're actually going to be the nominee, that's problematic, isn't it?
CROWLEY: that's the problem. and so, they have yet to find a way to channel those qualities of McCain that were so successful for him in the primary states. And I just don't know if Schmidt is not someone who has worked with him for a long time, really knows how to bring up the best in him. And so that's going to be his challenge. But there's no question that he's a skilled operative.
O'BRIEN: Well, it had to happen.
We're going to take a short break as Lars and Roland, and Michael, stay right there. I want to know how today's news from McCain campaign is going to play out with the Democrats. Will Barack Obama be also forced to do Barack Obama 2.0. We're going to talk about that straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Back to today's shake-up in the McCain campaign and the impact it might have on the race. We're back with Lars Larson, Roland Martin who is joining us now by phone, and Michael Crowley. Let's get to you, Roland, because we kind of lost you there.
Let me ask you a question. We moved you to phone because we lost your satellite.
MARTIN: It's like a radio show, don't worry about it.
O'BRIEN: It's just like a radio show, isn't? What's Obama doing moving to the middle? Is this a necessary evil for people who feel they supported a candidate who they thought maybe was more left? Or do you think that this is as he has put it, people just understanding his message more clearly this time around?
MARTIN: Everybody has to move to the middle. You cannot win in November if you stay, the term, on the fringes. When you're running in the primary if you are a Republican, you have to appeal to your base, appeal to the right. If you're a Democrat, you have to appeal to the left. But the way to win in November is you have to deal with the middle. Those people who are moderates, those people who are independents, those people who might lean each different way. So we always see this. George W. Bush did this. You'll see the same thing with John Kerry. This is not a shocker.
O'BRIEN: Lars, you know, earlier, we had Dana list a whole litany of problems that the campaign has had. But when you actually look at the polling number, all things considered, that long list of problems, the numbers aren't so bad.
LARSON: I have to tell you something. Obama should be doing better than he is right now. I think moving to the middle is hard for him because he got a of baggage. He made that promise to immediately withdraw troops from Iraq, and then it was swiftly, and now it's responsibly. And he keeps moving the direction that John McCain already is and where most Americans realize we ought to be. He's not going to be able to pull troops out of Iraq immediately the way he originally promised and a lot of his base is going to be angry when they realize what he's doing.
O'BRIEN: Michael, McCain -
MARTIN: Soledad -- here's the reality.
O'BRIEN: Go ahead, Roland. Sorry.
MARTIN: Soledad, here's the reality. In terms of he should be doing better. He came off a campaign that went deep into the month of May. You are talking about June. John McCain, he pretty much was done in April. And so, John McCain should be the one who really should be tied or leaning because he frankly had two months of all by himself so he had --
LARSON: You have to remember for John McCain --
MARTIN: -- his organization -
CROWLEY: He's flying into one of the strongest possible head winds. I mean, he has got the economy, the war, the Republican brand is absolutely in the gutter. So it is true, Obama is somewhat under performing --
LARSON: Yes.
CROWLEY: But at the same time, John McCain has a lot of problems he needs to fix. So this shake-up is something he needed to do because he's also under performing.
O'BRIEN: It sounds like he's off-message. How do you do that? That sounds like step one is figure out what your message is.
CROWLEY: Right.
O'BRIEN: What's the message?
MARTIN: Well, Campbell. I mean, sorry.
O'BRIEN: Soledad -- Go ahead, Roland.
MARTIN: I know, I'm sorry. I'm used to being on ELECTION CENTER.
Soledad, first and foremost with message, is he has to have a stream-lined organization. If you're the guys who's in the military you would think he would understand chain of command. He has to be very consistent. He has to stay focused on the economy. I get national security. If that's your big hammer, use that in September and October. Use the time, now, to build up your credentials and your confidence when it comes to the economy, not national security.
O'BRIEN: Michael --
CROWLEY: And Soledad -
O'BRIEN: Hang on, Lars.
CROWLEY: Going back to what I was saying earlier, people like John McCain when he says unexpected, unpredictable things. This is this catch-22 he's been in his whole campaign is when you put him on a strict message, he loses his flair. That's the problem they have to fix. LARSON: Soledad, here's the message he's got to be on, the number one problem with the economy right now is energy. He's got to get back on that and he ought to be beating the other side like crazy on the fact that they don't want to drill. Unfortunately, McCain right now says he doesn't want to drill either. And that's an idiotic --
MARTIN: -- but drilling is not the answer, Lars, and you know it. Lars, drilling is not the answer.
LARSON: Yes, it is, long term it is.
MARTIN: At some point, no, even George W. Bush in the state of the union address a couple of years ago said America must confront its addiction to oil.
LARSON: That doesn't mean shutting down the economy. This economy runs on oil. Here's one thing you can do immediately, shut down or turn off the Jones Act for a while and let tankers come in to California with oil from Alaska that we own --
O'BRIEN: So then a final question but it sounds like you're saying -- here's -- is it an organization in the campaign or is it, really, this is what the candidate believes?
LARSON: What's he believes.
O'BRIEN: -- and all the organization in your campaign is not going to change that.
CROWLEY: I think at the end of date fundamentals are going to decide the selection. I mean, when we get close to voting in Iraq, is there going to be a consensus that's hardened that things are getting better or there's hope there or if there's a big surge in violence, that's a disaster for McCain. It's a disaster for everyone. Is there any sign the economy is bouncing back or do people feel it's really -- just, you know, you need a complete clean break? I think that's going to decide this election more than tactical questions.
O'BRIEN: All right, gentlemen. Lars and Michael, Roland, we'll see you a little bit later. So, we're going back to our breaking story that we've been talking about all evening, the rescue of those 15 hostages, including three Americans, held captive in the jungles of Colombia.
Also ahead, Barack Obama and Iraq. Did he box himself in with his position on the war and withdrawing troops?
You're watching ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back.
We want to begin by recapping tonight's dramatic breaking news. With U.S. support, Colombia's military rescued 15 hostages, including three Americans and one-time Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt. She was kidnapped back in February of 2002. It turns out the U.S. government tipped off Colombia as to the hostages whereabouts. The three Americans are U.S. government contractors, captured when their plane crashed in Colombia back in 2003.
Their names -- Marc Gonsalves, Thomas Howes and Keith Stansell. And they will be arriving in San Antonio, Texas, to be reunited with their family members. We're expecting that in just a few hours.
We're going to continue to have live coverage of this breaking story. Stay with CNN throughout the evening for our continuing coverage, including live aspects on all parts of this story during "A.C. 360," which is going to begin at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
Coming up, Barack Obama's got a big problem when it comes to Iraq. As things get better there, can he stick to his troop withdrawal plan? Or have changing conditions kind of painted him into a corner? We're going to have that story when we come back in just a moment.
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O'BRIEN: He said it all along, Barack Obama opposes the Iraq war and he wants U.S. troops out. He's got company. A new CNN opinion research poll shows that 68 percent of those surveyed oppose the war. 64 percent say the next president should remove troops from Iraq shortly after taking office which is something that Barack Obama's promised to do.
But as CNN's Jessica Yellin reports, Obama's Iraq plan could now be in question.
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JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was Barack Obama's defining issue from the earliest days of his campaign, a pledge to get America's troops out of Iraq and get them out quickly.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The best way to protect our security and the pressure Iraq's leaders to resolve their civil war is to immediately begin to remove our combat troops, not in six months or one year, but now.
YELLIN: Obama's plan, elect him and combat troops would come home within 16 months. His supporters are counting on it. Just today, the fiance of a service man begged the candidate to deliver.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got involved in his campaign because I wanted to help bring my fiance home and help move our country in a better direction.
YELLIN (on-camera): But now the senator is preparing for his first trip to Iraq in two years. As he surveys the situation on the ground, he may find reason to question his own pledge. YELLIN (voice-over): Conditions in Iraq have improved since the campaign began. Violence has dropped. And many one-time critics agree the surge in combat troops, which John McCain supported and Obama opposed, seems to be working. These days, Obama is emphasizing a different message on Iraq.
OBAMA: We must be as careful as getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. But we -- but start leaving, we must.
YELLIN: Notice, no mention of that "16-month draw-down." Still, the campaign insists Obama is committed to his withdrawal plan. Senior foreign policy adviser Susan Rice.
SUSAN RICE, OBAMA FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: He's been very clear that he will withdraw American forces at a responsible rate carefully from Iraq. He's also said that he will be responsive to what his commanders on the ground tell him.
YELLIN: The McCain campaign sees an opening. Today, a top McCain supporter charged that if Obama begins to withdraw troops, he will sacrifice the progress that has been made in Iraq, all because he's clinging to a very ideological commitment to left wing supporters. For Obama, a fine line to walk as the anti-war candidate preparing to travel to the war zone.
Jessica Yellin, CNN, Washington.
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O'BRIEN: You want to stick around tonight, find out what our panel has to say about Obama, his trip to Iraq and his war policy. That's all up next.
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O'BRIEN: Barack Obama's policy on the Iraq war has been heard loud and clear and the battle, bring home the troops. Now he's going to Iraq and a possible policy shift is up for discussion. Our experts ready to talk about that tonight.
Cliff May is the president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracy. It's a right-leaning think tank that supports the troop surge. Back again, CNN political analyst, Roland Martin, and here in the ELECTION CENTER, CNN's Michael Ware who has reported for us extensively from Iraq.
Gentlemen, I welcome you all.
Michael, let's begin with you. You know, the McCain camp has been hitting Obama very hard on Iraq, in a lot of ways forced his hand into making this Iraq trip. What do you think the Senator should look for, Senator Obama should be looking for when he goes on the trip?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: Well, he wants to get as much as a reality check as he possibly can hope to have. Let's be frank, these congressional delegation, -- O'BRIEN: All the time.
WARE: They're so sanitized, they're so clinical. They can't afford to expose these people to any real danger anyway. So, they're going to get a very filtered, very skewed view. I mean, they're not on the streets, even the troops don't get the real view.
O'BRIEN: So what should he do to get the real view?
WARE: That's going to be difficult for him. I think you have to think outside of the box. I think you have to be prepared to sit down or take some time during his visit within the sanctuary of the green zone to speak to some people who are not only on the official itinerary, people that the military are not hurling towards him. Or perhaps some military voices that aren't being pushed forward, some Iraqi voices, that he wouldn't otherwise hear from, at least so he can have a taste.
O'BRIEN: Roland, Barack Obama has been very specific from early on about what he planned to do in Iraq. And now you hear from, I think it was today, David Axelrod, his chief strategist, was talking about, you know, not being wedded to that, taking into account events on the ground. Is that just rationale or is that just building up for the flip-flop?
MARTIN: No, I mean, it is rationale. I mean, you have to examine what is happening now. It's sort of like saying, well, a year from now, I'm going to eat this for breakfast. Well, guess what, you go to your doctor, your doctor say, you got heart disease, might be changing what you eat. You have to keep that available -
O'BRIEN: But I'm not sure if that analogy -- Roland, let me stop you. Because I'm not sure that that analogy more like, you say, I'm going to eat such and such for breakfast, I'm going to eat such and such for breakfast. Well, now maybe not so much.
MARTIN: Maybe your doctor says different.
O'BRIEN: And then you say, maybe not so much and everyone around you says, a flip-flop.
MARTIN: Until you get a conflicting advice but you know what, not a smart idea. I'm going to change. But here's the issue that I think that he's going to emphasize when it comes to the war. President Bush wants to spend $245 billion this year and next year. The American people are not just saying pull the troops out because they're our troops, they're also looking at the cost of the war and how it's affecting our spending here as well. So it's not just our troops.
O'BRIEN: Cliff, let me ask you a question, to what degree is the Senator really risking eroding his support, his strong support, a lot of it built on the war if in fact he goes and starts taking some of the words from Axelrod?
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: He'll certainly absorb some damage from the far left that really does not want the U.S. to prevail in Iraq against al Qaeda and the Iranian- backed militias. But he will be reaching out to the middle which he really has absolutely has to do. Look, it is expensive to fight a war. But it is more expensive to lose a war than to win a war.
The Petraeus mission has been remarkably successful. Iraq now is a nation in which where you have a government. And al Qaeda hasn't beaten. Al Qaeda said this was the most important battlefront in its global war against us and they are being destroyed there. It is a -
O'BRIEN: Michael Ware is literally rolling his eyes as you speak, Cliff.
WARE: At both of you, for the record -
O'BRIEN: At both of them, why the eye roll?
MAY: Well, you can roll your eyes, but Anbar province, Michael, as you well know, was declared an Islamic emirate by al Qaeda and now Anbar is one of the safer there parts of the country. Do you agree?
WARE: Too true. And the Sunni insurgents, once they went on the U.S. payroll were most effective at assassinating al Qaeda and that's what America paid them to do. But there's long-term implications here. You now have 113,000 Sunni insurgents who are essentially a U.S.-backed militia that outside and opposed to the U.S.-backed government, which is actually run by Iran. Now, that's going to have long-term implication. Now, as you know --
MAY: As you know, Michael, also, Maliki has been very good about taking on in Basra and other parts of the country, the Iranian-backed militias, it's been -
O'BRIEN: Stop right there. We're going to pick it up, we're going to pick it up on the other side. No question that the condition on the grounds in Iraq have changed. So should the policy change? We'll talk about that in just a moment right here in the ELECTION CENTER. Stay with us.
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O'BRIEN: Even if things get better in Iraq, the war remains wildly unpopular here at home and that make the political situation even more complicated. We're back to talk about that with Cliff May, Roland Martin, Michael Ware.
Michael, let's, before we left, Cliff was talking about -- I think he said Maliki taking on the Iranian-backed militias in Basra.
WARE: That's the way that people are trying to sell what's been happening in Iraq but let's face reality. The government that Maliki heads is comprised of Iranian-backed factions. I mean, General David Petraeus himself confirms the president of Iraq is an agent of influence for Iran. So all we're seeing is one Iranian-backed fashion tussling with another Iranian-backed fashion vying for political power. O'BRIEN: Does it make sense, then, Cliff, to say, OK, things have gotten better, now it's time to go?
MAY: Yes, it's time to go slowly. What I would say Obama needs to do is sit down and talk with General Petraeus and General Odierno and say to them, at what the rate can we get out safely and manage to sustain all the progress that we have, rather than give it up, because we've paid for the progress, and there has been progress, I think even Michael would agree with that. That progress we must not simply sacrifice for a timetable and that can be done -- Petraeus and Odierno are the ones who can help do that. He needs to show that he will listen to his generals.
MARTIN: First, he said -- when I interviewed him right on CNN, he said, I win the presidency, first agenda in January, I'm sitting down with the Joint Chiefs of Stat, do exactly what you just said. So that's not out of the ordinary. And so look this is ...
MAY: Roland, then.
MARTIN: ... American people, and at some point well the Iraqis do have some control of their own country -
MAY: Roland, Roland, you're right, and they are assuming control little by little. He's not yet -- Obama has not yet --
MARTIN: No, not little -- we need more --
MAY: And Odierno and that's who he needs to talk with and he hasn't been in Iraq since the surge began.
O'BRIEN: Guys, I'm going to give the final word to Michael Ware because he's the only person not yelling right now, which even makes me love you even more, Michael.
WARE: That's a rarity. I mean, one thing I'd like to hear from Senator Obama, it's fine to have this notion to pull the troops. I mean who isn't tired? Who doesn't want the troops to come home?
O'BRIEN: And you do the math, we need the money.
WARE: Right, but I want to hear Senator Obama say he's prepared to pull those troops out while listing all the costs to American power, interest and status, not to mention the slaughter that almost certainly will follow. Then he can say that he's ready to pull the troops out. Let's hear him say he knows what it is really going to cost.
O'BRIEN: We'll see what he says. Michael Ware joining us tonight. Also, Cliff and Roland. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. That's it for "Election Center" tonight. You want to stay with CNN though throughout the evening for all the new developments in tonight's big breaking story on that daring hostage rescue with U.S. support.
Colombia's military rescuing 15 hostages, including three Americans, and one-time presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt. She was kidnapped back in February of 2002. The U.S. government told Colombia where to find the hostages apparently based on the very latest intelligence. Now, the three Americans are U.S. government contractors.
If you look at the Web site, they have changed their front page, their homepage, to celebrate their return. They were captured in 2003 when their plane crashed in Colombia. Their names are Marc Gonsalves, Thomas Howes and Keith Stansell. We're expecting them to be arriving in San Antonio, Texas, and we're expecting that in just a few hours.
As you can imagine, their family members are waiting with bated breath to see their loved ones back again. Although as it stands now, some 700 hostages still remain being held by FARC. You want to stay with CNN throughout the evening for our continuing coverage, including live updates during "A.C. 360" which begins at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
I'm Soledad O'Brien in for Campbell Brown tonight.
"LARRY KING LIVE" begins right now.
