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New Video Released of the Colombian Hostage Rescue; John McCain Has A New Team and A New Strategy; Broken Health Care System; ngrid Betancourt Reunites with her Family; Two Cases of So-Called Vigilante Justice
Aired July 05, 2008 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: A new video just released of the Colombian hostage rescue. Behind (OFF-MIKE).
Hi, everybody, I'm Rick Sanchez. All right, the first thing we want to do tonight is try and bring you this new video of this Colombian hostage rescue you just saw there moments ago in pieces. All right, let's get to it.
These are some of the captors and some of the hostages as they're seen here. Remember, right here, they don't know that this is actually a rescue operation. They think they're about to be moved to another rebel camp. Then let's cut, Roger, if we can, inside the helicopter.
This is inside the helicopter. Now, they're in the helicopter and they are actually told, guess what, you've just been rescued. And that's Ingrid Betancourt's reaction. You can see that she is elated, surprised. The 15 freed hostages include three American contractors, by the way.
There you see one of them. He's the one there in handcuffs. There, when you're looking at him, he doesn't know that he's about to be rescued, by the way. He thinks he's just being moved from one location to another by some of the captors. Former Colombian presidential candidate, Ingrid Betancourt, of course, is the one that you saw moments ago on the tape.
All right, let me show you somebody else. This is the guy who probably knows as much about this story as just about anybody. This is my colleague, Karl Penhaul. He's based in Colombia. He's been following the kidnapping of Betancourt for years.
Karl, I want the viewers to see what you have put together, frame by frame, knock out this rescue video. Go ahead. Let's take a look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): FARC rebels toting assault rifles watch in a drug plantation in eastern Colombia. The time on the video says 1:22 p.m. Fifteen of the rebels most valuable hostages wait nearby, including former presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt and three American defense contractors.
The rebels believe a helicopter that has just landed is a humanitarian mission to ferry their captives to another guerrilla camp. They have no idea this is the final phase of a daring operation by Colombian military intelligence months in the planning.
It's now 1:24 according to the video. One military intelligence officer posing as a cameraman asks a question of this FARC commander known as Cesar. Cesar seems relaxed but declines to answer. Like the other hostages American Keith Stansell is handcuffed, readied for the flight. 1:27 Stansell utters the word gringos or Americans and shows the plastic cuffs to the man he thinks is a bona fide cameraman.
Lieutenant Raimundo Malagon, held hostage for 10 years, seems agitated. "I'm Lieutenant Malagon of the glorious Colombian Army and I've been held in chains for ten years" he says.
A minute later, the hostages walk the final yards to the white chopper. The audio is cut as we see Ingrid Betancourt preparing to board. She looks haggard after more than six years as a hostage. A last shot of the guerrilla captors and minutes later this. Pure joy. Betancourt is in tears, the hostages have just been told they are free.
At a press conference to show the dramatic video, military commanders described how secret agents were trained for weeks in acting techniques to pull off their role as aid workers. They flew into the rebel camp unarmed, not a single shot was fired.
"It was 100 percent Colombian operation, no foreigners took part in the planning or the execution," he says. But he conceded a U.S. surveillance plane watched over the operation and said the rescue helicopter was equipped with a device to send an SOS signal to the Americans if the mission hit problems.
Asked about reports that a large ransom had been paid to win the hostages release, the defense minister was adamant.
"All that information is absolutely false. There is no truth in that. I can say we did not pay a single cent. But even if it did cost us $20 million to get these hostages back, it would have been cheap," he says.
The Colombian government acknowledges it does pay FARC informants and deserters. A source close to military intelligence with knowledge of this operation tells CNN the Army was able to persuade three senior FARC couriers switch sides. One of them gave bogus orders to rebel commanders to hand over the hostages.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Karl Penhaul joins us, now, live.
Karl, you know what I'm curious about. How were they able to fool not just the captors, but even the hostages into thinking that this really wasn't a rescue, but really nothing more than a move? A transfer from one place to another?
PENHAUL: Well, it's not really usual that humanitarian missions get involved to transfer the hostages from one rebel camp to another. Normally the rebels do that on foot and march the hostages for days or weeks through the jungle. But this was months in the planning. And they used those helicopters painted white and orange.
Now, those helicopters were very similar to the helicopters used in two humanitarian missions earlier this year which did result in the freeing of some hostages. There was so much confusion here. So much fine planning by military intelligence. And it took the guerillas down hook line and sinker, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Planning that even involved acting lessons, I read?
PENHAUL: So we're told by the head of the army. He says that these military intelligence officers spent weeks with a theater trainer and their role there was to train these military intelligence officers up so well and to play their role of a humanitarian aide worker. Some that looks paid of, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you a question, even just moments ago before I went on the air with you, I was checking the Internet and reading even more reports that there had been some kind of exchange. Something exchanged between the FARC, who was holding Ingrid Betancourt and the three Americans and either the Colombian government, vis-a-vis, the U.S. government -- what are you hearing definitively, if anything, about this?
PENHAUL: Well, certainly, as you know, yourself, Rick, in these types of military black offs as they called these real deep cover operations, we never likely to know the full truth. We have seen those Swiss media reports speaking about a $20 million ransom. I personally don't believe those.
And the Colombian government has said adamantly that no money change has been there. But what we do know is that, and I know that this I've been told this from a source very close to military intelligence that he was telling me that some FARC human couriers had been switching sides.
They'd been persuaded to come on board with the government and help the government, and he says that they were key in giving out these bogus orders. He also does tell me that he believes that one of those couriers at least was paid a substantial sum of money to ferry those bogus orders from one side to the other, but no ransom for the hostages itself, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Let's leave that at that. Let's talk about this now because I think people watching at home are listening to our conversation and they are probably wondering, what would it be like to be a hostage in the jungle for so long. Were they beaten, did they develop some kind of relationship with their captors? Did they ever try to escape?
I know that you put together another report on this for us. Karl, go ahead, and set this up for our viewers so we can watch it with you.
PENHAUL: Well, talking to the hostages who have been freed from the guerillas. You know, they all talk about nightmare, they talk about living hell. Many of them speak of being kept in chains, chained to the neck for years. 24 hours a day. If they tried to escape, they were threatened with a beating or even death, but those were the only problems along with risk of tropical diseases.
Some of the hostages say that they were their own worst enemies. One group of hostages at certain points were threatening another group of hostages with their aggression and also even sexual abuse.
Now, I've got a report for you on that and here it is, Rick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PENHAUL (voice-over): Freedom. The horror is finally over. For now, at least, Ingrid Betancourt is not revealing her full nightmare, failed escape bids, years in chain and the threat of sexual abuse, not by FARC guerillas, but by fellow hostages.
Former congressman Luis Eladio Perez knows only too well. He spent four of his seven years in captivity alongside Betancourt. He was freed in February.
LUIS ELADIO PEREZ, FORMER HOSTAGE (through translator): At the start, the guerilla's relationship with Ingrid was cordial. But mid-level commanders were rude and course. But the atmosphere was not too bad. They only chained us up from sunset to sunrise for security reasons.
PENHAUL: But in July, 2005, captivity turned into a living hell. Perez says he and Betancourt staged a daring escape but then turned themselves in.
PEREZ: We realized, then, they're beginning to circle the camp with razor wire and so Ingrid said to me either we go today or we lose our chance. So we decided to run that night. We didn't have sufficient food, but we did it. Ingrid prepared everything at midnight. It was raining heavily, so the guards couldn't hear and there was zero visibility.
We left the camp and dived into the river and swam for 2-1/2 hours. And we ran as much as we could until hypothermia set in. We spent all day lying low so as not leave any traces in the jungle. We did the same each night jumping into the river. We thought the river would take us into Brazil. And we continued for five or six days.
But food ran low and Ingrid lost three fishing hooks she used and I'm diabetic. So on the sixth day, we decided to turn ourselves in. When we handed ourselves in, there was absolute repression by the guerillas. They chained us to a tree 24 hours a day. They took away our boots and we went barefoot in the camps suffering foot rot and appalling treatment.
Finally, they didn't chain me to a tree, but to one of the Americans, Tom Howes, if he wanted to go to the bathroom I had to go with him and vice versa. That's the biggest abuse the FARC can commit. Treating people like animals. That's like the horrors of the Second World War or in Vietnam.
PENHAUL: As conditions hit rock bottom, the hostages turned on each other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There were daily incidents and conflicts. Different opinions among hostages create friction that result in fights. There were one or two cases that overstepped the mark partly. But those of us who were friends with Ingrid backed her.
PENHAUL: Perez declined to spell out the true extent of the problems. But he gave a full private account to Betancourt's Family.
YOLANDA PULECIO, BETANCOURT'S MOTHER (through translator): Congressman Perez told me the American, Mark Gonsalves, has behaved very well with Ingrid and defended her from the aggression of some of the other hostages.
He explained to me the problems between Ingrid and one of the women who was her friend and that has hurt me a lot. And she's also had problems with the soldiers and police who are being held.
PENHAUL: In interviews before Betancourt's rescue, her husband explained more.
JUAN CARLOS LECOMPTE, BETANCOURT'S HUSBAND (through translator): Some of the soldiers and policemen who are hostage, too, tried to abuse of Ingrid because -- I mean, I don't know. Maybe after ten years in the jungle they lose their minds, you know. You have to run because the army's gone and you have to fight against the guerilla. And then you have to fight with other hostages because they are trying to abuse you. They are trying to -- so, it's a terrible life.
PENHAUL: In the six years she was held hostage, Lecompte flew over the Colombian jungle several times dropping thousands of photos of Betancourt's son Lorenzo and daughter Melanie, hoping his wife would receive just one.
In one trip earlier this year he read me Betancourt's own description of her ordeal penned in a letter she sent as proof of life in November.
LECOMPTE (through translator): This is a very dense jungle. And the rays of light scarcely pierce the tree canopy. But it is deserted of affection, solidarity, or tenderness. These six years have shown me I'm not as resistant, brave, intelligent, or as strong as I thought. I'm giving up. I'm tired of suffering and of lying to myself, believing this will end.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Karl, what does this do to an organization which really is based on NARCO trafficking, but tends to fancy itself as a political force within Colombia. And some would argue that they are. Does this rescue diminish them?
PENHAUL: Well, certainly, this rescue has been a huge coo for the government. And I think that any military force across the world would have been proud of the way that this was pulled off. But without a doubt, it is a huge blow for the FARC. Not only in military terms as the end of their military pry, but moreover in political terms because these with their prize hostages. These were the ones that the FARC gorillas were going to try and use as political leverage to gain an international diplomatic state as to try and pressure talks and also, they were trying to use these to swap the 500 jailed comrades both in Colombia and U.S. jails.
Now, add this to the fact that the FARC have received a number of heavy military blows on the battlefield this year. And it's a really tough situation for the FARC, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Karl Penhaul doing an outstanding job covering this story for us. Really putting things in perspective for us. Thanks so much, Karl.
There is something else that I want to show you that we're putting together on this story. In about 15 minutes, we're going to make you think about what it must be like to be in captivity for six years and not be able to see your children. And then, finally, to be able to see them again. Video of the reunion of Ingrid Betancourt with her kids, with her family. That's ahead.
Also ahead, this woman waits for emergency room care. She waits and waits and waits. Workers, patients walk by her. Do they help? No. Why?
And if you were John McCain, would you want the picture that comes out of the convention to be of you and George Bush, together? News tonight on Mr. Bush's convention role duet or solo? Solo, but maybe nobody can hear him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back to the world headquarters of CNN. I'm Rick Sanchez. This one is about focus, as in focus. John McCain has a new team and a new strategy. The aim? To try and stay focused on message. That report is ahead.
I also want to show you this surveillance footage now that surfaced this week. I want you to take a look at this.
You can see a woman who is collapsing. She falls out of her chair. She's struggling. Esman Green shown there, in happier days, on home video dies at a hospital waiting room. People see it and seem to don't react. Here's how it happens.
CNN's Mary Snow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Had it not been for a surveillance camera inside the psychiatric emergency room at Brooklyn's Kings County Hospital, we may never have known what happened to 49-year-old Esman Green in the moments before she died.
As she struggles on the floor several people walk by but no one does anything to help her. And it takes nearly an hour before a medical team arrives to treat her.
The New York Civil Liberties Union released this videotape showing Green falling to the floor in the emergency room around 5:30 on the morning of June 19th. About 20 minutes later a security guard comes into view.
VOICE OF BETH HAROULES, NYCLU STAFF ATTORNEY: He walks in. He stands there. We actually think there's a television up on the top and he's looking at the TV. But he's clearly got the patient in view and he walks away.
SNOW: Green was in the ER waiting for a bed to become available. At one point the woman can be seen struggling to free herself from the chairs. And at another point she appears to make an effort to get up. A copy of her medical records contradicts the tape, listing her at the same time as being awake, up and about, even going to the bathroom.
At about 6:10 a.m., lawyers say, a second security guard enters the room.
HAROULES: Here he comes into the room. Checks her out. He can't even get himself off his chair. He sits there and then you'll see him wheel himself away.
SNOW: Finally around 6:30 a.m. medical personnel arrive. Green is later pronounced dead. The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation released a statement saying, "We are shocked and distressed by the situation." Adding that after it learned of the incident, the agency's president "directed the suspension and termination of those involved."
The city's mayor says the city will do everything it can to cooperate with the investigation.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), NEW YORK: I was horrified is much too nice a word. Disgusted I think is a better word.
SNOW (on camera): This is not the first time the psychiatric unit at Kings County Hospital has been targeted. Advocates for the mentally ill filed a lawsuit in federal court in 2007 calling this a, quote, "Shameful place with horrendous conditions." That suit is still active.
The city's Health and Hospitals Corporation says it has put in place a number of reforms and continues to do so, including checking on patients in the psychiatric unit every 15 minutes.
Mary Snow, CNN, Brooklyn.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hospital and health care issues aside, and by the way, we're going to get into that in just a little bit. What I was really taken aback by as I watched this tape, and maybe some of you were as well, is how many people walk by including that security guard and really didn't do anything to help. So we got Dr. P.M. Forni. He's an author who has written extensively on how people are supposed to treat each other, supposed to but often don't.
Doctor, let me just cut right to the chase. Why didn't anybody, including the security guard, deal with what they were looking at right in front of them. A woman in distress, on the ground, passed out? Whatever?
P.M. FORNI, FOUNDER, JOHNS HOPKINS CIVILITY PROJECT: We can blame the anonymity of city live, of life in the big city. We can blame this on compassion fatigue. When we are struggling for our own survival, we are less likely to be compassionate to others. We can find all sorts of justifications. But in the end, the outrage was of a dimension this time that it defies explanation.
SANCHEZ: Is it really, though? I mean, what, New York City is a place, perhaps, as much as any other place in the United States of America, where on your way to work, if you're going to walk ten blocks, you may see as many as ten different people lying on the floor either sleeping, passed out, you don't know, right? So are you in enculturated by that?
FORNI: Yes. We are so used to see the mentally ill, the poor, the destitute taking shelter in cardboard boxes. Living and lying on outlets with steam coming out. And we already new to that. We seem to believe that it's normal. It is a perverse version of normality. And so it can happen, unfortunately, and it's horrendous that they can die under our eyes and without anybody really paying attention.
SANCHEZ: One final question, doctor, I'm just curious -- and if you could keep this down about 10 or 15 seconds. Is this something we see today? Is this new to our time on earth as opposed to the past, or have people always been this apathetic?
FORNI: There are always been people so apathetic. It appears that now the situation is getting worse. And one reason for that is that we do not train our children in compassion the way we should. We do not train them in civility, which is the beginning of compassion. And we have a very self-absorbed people more than it was in the past.
SANCHEZ: Great advice. Dr. P.M. Forni, thank you, sir for taking time to join us tonight.
FORNI: You're welcome. Bye, bye.
SANCHEZ: Coming up, I'm going to be doing something for you tonight. I'm going to take two different cases, two shooting cases of two men who say -- look, we are just protecting our turf. But when their trials, when their cases were done, one walked and the other one is locked up. Which one is which and why?
By the way, that emergency room death that you just saw there where I had that conversation with Dr. P.M. Forni, it's a reminder that our health care system is broken. You want to know why? I talked to some nurses who tell me this. They said, Rick, follow the money. LOFTV, all over it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I want to show you something. All right, put it up, Roger. You see the man there on the right, the other man on the left. We found this photograph taken eight years ago at a convention. What are the chances that you're going to be able to see them together again, like this, at this year's Republican convention in September? Maybe just maybe not so good.
Tonight, we have learned that President Bush's appearance at this year's GOP convention will be early, short and sweet.
White House Press Secretary Dana Perino announced today that President Bush will appear at the GOP convention only on the very first day.
Republican strategist and CNN political contributor, Leslie Sanchez. With that white, bright smile and a great last name.
Also, Democratic strategist and radio talk show host, Bill Press, my old friend, Bill Press is back with us again.
LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Can you tell people we're not related, Rick, because they think we might be.
SANCHEZ: I know. You've been going around telling everybody that you're my little sister.
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: And I've got to debate your sister tonight, Rick. I mean, come on, it's not fair.
SANCHEZ: All right. Bill, I'm going to start with you. I got this "New York Times" report here. I was reading this this morning. The "New York Times" says that when asked about a joint appearance with Mr. Bush, a McCain staffer said, quote, "highly unlikely."
I don't know if you had a chance to read that.
PRESS: Yes, sure.
SANCHEZ: I guess, my question to you is -- are you surprised by that and how would you explain that to the American people?
PRESS: Well, that's not the full story. The full story is they told the White House that the convention is being held in Chicago this year.
SANCHEZ: Now, that's downright mean.
Leslie, you have a right to go after him on that one.
L. SANCHEZ: Thank you very much. No. Let's be mindful that 62 percent of Republicans have a favorable opinion of the president. He is the leader of the free world. He does raise a tremendous amount of money especially among conservatives. And he is not doing anything that's any different from any other candidate in the sense he's allowing the nominee to move out of his shadow and really stage the direction of the country for themselves.
PRESS: Hey, look, Rick, this is like having a case of Salmonella poisoning at the convention. You don't want the president there. But I have to agree with Leslie. This is not that unusual.
In 2000, Al Gore didn't want Bill Clinton around. So Bill Clinton came in on the first day, gave his speech. Everybody said thank you, Mr. President.
SANCHEZ: Yes, and it happens.
PRESS: And he disappeared. And that's what's going to happen this year. Bush will be in the first night. He'll be out of town at John McCain's convention.
SANCHEZ: It happens for different reasons, by the way, because there was a time when Ronald Reagan only showed up at the first day because he didn't want to outshine...
PRESS: That's right. Yes.
SANCHEZ: ...The other George Bush.
By the way, McCain. Let's talk about this real quick. New team, new strategy. Here's how it's explained to me. He's giving speeches now on the issue of the day at a town hall meeting setting. And then, he's going to take questions on -- when he takes questions he'll answer them with parts of his stump speech.
Leslie, is this about controlling the message, you know, McFocus?
L. SANCHEZ: Very much, though. I think there's a very strong positives for the McCain campaign this week. You have Steve Schmidt moving into a important role. This is somebody who is younger, stronger, brings kind of an organized prowess to this campaign. He's somebody from a different culture and at different age and out of California. Somebody who helped Governor Schwarzenegger win in a year when Republican didn't win. So we have to be mindful. It's going to be strong positives and it's going to help his message.
SANCHEZ: You get the last word, Bill, ten seconds.
PRESS: Hey, Rick, I just got to say -- last week, John McCain campaigns in Colombia and Mexico, and then he takes the long Fourth of July weekend off. Obviously, there's a problem with this campaign. Maybe, maybe Steve Schmidt can fix it. But the problem is really with the candidate.
I love John McCain, but he likes these rambling town halls, he likes to sit with reporters, and he talks about anything that they ask about and he jumps all over his message. He's very hard to control.
L. SANCHEZ: That's not unique to Senator McCain. I think any candidate pretty much has an opportunity to do that.
PRESS: Not George Bush, for example. SANCHEZ: We want to thank the law firm of Sanchez, Press and Sanchez. See you guys.
PRESS: All right, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Bye-bye.
Well, we showed you her in captivity. Did you see what happened next? We've got the emotional reunion here from a kidnapped mother who hasn't seen her kids in nearly six years.
And then at League of First-Time Voters tonight. I'm going to talk to some nurses about our broken health care system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Where is all that money going?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a great question.
SANCHEZ: Yes, it certainly is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: You want to fix healthcare, these nurses tell me, follow the money. Back in 30 seconds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: We told you we'd be back on 30. Count us down. We showed you earlier, this emergency room in New York where this woman goes untreated and she eventually dies, right? You saw it.
Well, it begs this question. Why is our health care system in this country broken? Why do health care CEOs make more than $20 million a year, while doctors make much, much less, and nurses, forget about it. A fraction of that.
I went to New York to talk to some nurses. Tough nurses. Some Democrat, some Republican. For the League of First-Time Voters they tell me, follow the money.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (on camera): Let's start with the money coming in. So much money is going into health care in the United States right now that they're saying by 2017, one of every $5 spent by Americans is going to be going to health care. Where is all that money going?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's a great question. It's going into what we call third level character share of care when people are really very sick, when they're in hospitals. Frequently, it's going to the last few months of their lives and to insurance companies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The money is not coming to the providers. The money is pretty much going to the insurance companies. The paper pushers and some of them may not even be health care workers. They may not even be doctors or nurses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And also the pharmaceutical companies. They gain a lot of dollars, you know, from moneys coming into the system. Instead of it going into the delivery of quality health care for, you know, all people in this country.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm ready to play offense on universal health care. It's time we stood up to the drug companies, the insurance companies, the HMOs who have been blocking reform for too long and tell them enough is enough.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We have differences on health care. I prefer to give American families more control over their health care decisions. Senator Obama would prefer that government exercise greater control.
SANCHEZ: If you had to choose, whether the government intervenes and gets involved in health care as it has in many countries including countries like Sweden and our neighbors to the north in Canada, would you be in favor of it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think people have differences of opinion with the government getting involved with health care. There's a pro and a con with it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to have a common ground. So maybe you need the expertise from the people who are in the market sector to compliment what Barack Obama is saying so we get to the middle to have our universal health care for all people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The citizens of the United States deserve basic, good, safe, primary care. We should all adopt the institute of medicines mantra. It should be safe, it should be effective, it should be patient centered, it should be timely, it should be efficient and it should be equitable.
SANCHEZ: We hear it all the time. People are always saying, if we go with the universal health care system, forget it. We're turning our country into a socialized medical system. Are they right?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not socialized medicine. That's one of the fallacies that is thrown out there to try to make people afraid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My aunt had to get a total hip replacement.
SANCHEZ: Is she in Europe?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's in Europe.
SANCHEZ: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, and she said to me, I don't know when I could go in. It could be months and months. She actually went in after about close to one year and said, guess what, we're not ready for you. Go home. It was hours of driving back to --
SANCHEZ: She had to be on a waiting list against something --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's on a waiting list
SANCHEZ: Was she is pain?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was in pain. I mean, but they say it was not emergency. I mean, this was a total hip replacement. And I guess if it wasn't for that, Rick, like I kind of hear both sides. And again, as nurses, we want the best for our patient. I mean, that's where my heart is. We're champions for health care and for patients. And I'm so happy that we are all having this discussion because I get to hear all my colleagues think and feel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to have a commitment. The commitment has to come from the president to the Congress, down to the citizens and the residents of the United States of America. If they don't involve nurses in all this planning, they're going to miss out. Nurses are absolutely the forefront of this battle.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Spoken with pride. Nurses speaking out. And here's a way that you can do the same. Join the League of First Time Voters. Powered by you. Informed by CNN. Check in, join in, weigh in. CNN headquarters for the independent thinker. Log on to cnn.com/league. And you could watch all of them there.
Well, Ingrid Betancourt spends years in captivity. Can you imagine what a reunion with her family would be like? We've got it and we'll show it to you, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Two men. Two cases of so-called vigilante justice. I want to share these two with you. We'll break them down. One gets time, the other doesn't even get indicted. More on that in a moment. But first, this.
This rescue was a long time coming for three American hostages lifted from the jungles of Colombia just days ago. And as utterly hopeless as it must have been at times, they never seemed to give up hope and neither did their families.
Here they are, arriving now, at the Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio. This is their first time on American soil. These three Americans who had been sitting in that jungle for so long. In fact, for nearly six years.
Also rescued, former Colombian presidential candidate, Ingrid Betancourt. Think about that. She's running for president and she's taken hostage. Imagine something like that happening in our country.
I'm going to show you at least two reasons that she fought so hard to hold on during this ordeal for her. Her son and daughter were right there waiting for her to get off that plane. Oh my goodness. Listen to what she tells reporters. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INGRID BETANCOURT, FORMER COLOMBIAN HOSTAGE (through translator): These children, they are my pride and my reason for living. My sun, my moon, my stars. Because of them, I continued the wish to leave that jungle because I wanted to see them again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Isn't that something? If you missed tonight's HBO special on Ingrid Betancourt's kidnapping and her family struggled to free her, you can see it here, tonight, after this newscast.
Also, we're going to play it tomorrow at 6:00 p.m., Sunday, 6:00 p.m.
All right. You see that man in the hat on the left side of your screen? That's Joe Horn. He owns a house in the middle class neighborhood in Texas. And when police shot this videotape, Joe Horn had just shot and killed two men, protecting his property, he said. We'll tell you what a grand jury said.
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SANCHEZ: Tonight, I want to tell you about two men. 62-year-old Joe Horn of Houston, Texas and 54-year-old John White of Long Island, New York. Both say that they perceived a threat and were forced to use and fire their weapons. These are two tragedies with two different outcomes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN HORN: I've got a shot gun. Do you want me to stop them?
OPERATOR: Nope. Don't do that. Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK.
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Last November, a middle class home in the suburbs of Houston, Texas. Joe Horn calls 911. He has seen two men robbing his neighbor's house. He's told by the operator, stay inside, that police are on the way.
OPERATOR: Mr. Horn do not --
HORN: I'm sorry. This ain't right, buddy.
OPERATOR: You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with that gun. I don't care what you think.
HORN: You wanna make a bet.
OPERATOR: OK, stay in the house.
HORN: I'm gonna kill them.
SANCHEZ: About the same time and 1600 miles away in Suffolk County, New York, John White is preparing to stand trial for manslaughter after killing a teenage who showed up with several others at his home to threaten his son. White's lawyers said his wife was terrified.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She stated clearly she thought it was a lynch mob and she did not feel comfortable or safe in her own home.
SANCHEZ: Throughout the case, John White insists he was only protecting his family. Though none of the men who came to threaten his son that night were armed.
Meanwhile, back in Texas, Joe Horn has decided to ignore the pleas of the 911 operator. He's preparing now to challenge the men who are robbing his neighbor's house.
OPERATOR: I don't want you going outside, Mr. Horn.
HORN: Well, here it goes, Buddy. You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.
OPERATOR: No, don't go outside.
HORN: Move, you're dead.
SANCHEZ: Hernando Torres, Diego Ortiz are killed on the spot as they stepped into Horn's front yard. Note the time between the command not to move and the shooting.
HORN: Move, you're dead.
SANCHEZ: That and an autopsy report which shows the men were shot in the back led activists to protest the shooting. While Horn insisted he, too, was acting in self defense.
Here's what he told ABC's "Good Morning America."
HORN: When you're confronted and when somebody rushes you and you've already told them not to move, you -- you know that you must shoot or you're going to be dead.
SANCHEZ: While controversy raged in Houston, in Long Island, New York, John White's lawyers and his family were arguing that a father has a right to defend his home threaten by teens who showed up late at night. He says he only meant to scare them off, but his gun fired accidentally.
SONY WHITE, WIFE OF JOHN WHITE: The man is supposed to protect his family and his home. That's a God given right under our constitution.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: All right. So here's the question. How do these cases of these two different men in different parts of the country conclude? Were they simply being protective? Were they both wrong? Were they both right?
We've got B.J. Bernstein over here. Roger, can you give a two shot. She's going to be watching this and then later when we come back after we see the conclusion, I want you to lawyerly break this down for us. Stay there. We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: All right. Tonight we continue to compare two cases for you. Two shootings involving two men who say they were just offending their turf. Why are the outcomes so different? You decide as you watch them both unfold.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN: I can't take a chance on getting killed over this, OK? I'm going to shoot. I'm going to shoot.
SANCHEZ: For Joe Horn that was not availed threat. He meant what he said. And moments later, the proof of exactly what he meant was heard on this 911 tape.
HORN: Move, you're dead.
SANCHEZ: After months of public debate, the case of Joe Horn is delivered to a grand jury in Houston, Texas. Would they see Horn as a killer or a man defending himself against criminals?
And what about John White in Long Island? He shot 17-year-old Daniel Cicciaro with a pistol at point blank range during a confrontation on his driveway. Cicciaro and several others had come to his home during a feud with his son. Is he guilty of manslaughter as charged or did he simply try and protect his family? Did he shoot by accident? The jury didn't buy it. Didn't believe that his gun went off accidentally. They ruled that he fired out of anger, not fear.
Prosecutors said he had 20 minutes to consider what to do. That his son had warned him the teenagers were coming. He was found guilty of manslaughter and possessing an illegal weapon that might have gotten up to 15 years but the judge sentenced him to two to four years in prison saying the group of teenagers shared moral responsibility for the death of Cicciaro.
White's family saw it as an injustice. And Cicciaro's parents believed he should have been punished more harshly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You let that (BLEEP).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This disgusting.
SANCHEZ: And what about the Texas case? A grand jury concluded Joe Horn's use of deadly force did not amount to a criminal offense. No charges were brought. Horn is free and clear. On ABC, his attorney, Tom Lambright.
TOM LAMBRIGHT, HORN'S ATTORNEY: The homeowner has a right to protect his own home. He also has a right if a burglar is escaping with property and he knows that his neighbor wants him to help protect his property, and further that if he know he's going to expose himself to the risk of death or serious bodily injury, he has the right to use deadly force to protect that neighbor's property. SANCHEZ: Two cases, two states, two very different results.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Interesting, huh? And as promised, here's B.J. Bernstein.
Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Let's go ahead and go there. Because there's people who watch this right now at home and they're saying, you know, the African-American gentleman in New York goes to prison. The guy who's not an African-American who shot two blacks in the south, doesn't.
Are they right?
B.J. BERNSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it's too simplistic. I wish it actually could be that simple, but it's not. Because what I think both these cases show is how fear rules our decision. In the Texas case, fear of immigrants, fear of your house being threatened, fear of being a victim of a crime.
SANCHEZ: But two guys are saying they're protecting their homes. Don't they both have a right to protect their homes or do they not have a right to protect their home? They're both citizens of the United States. Why appearance of unequal justice?
BERNSTEIN: Well, I mean, the law's different in the states, first of all. I mean, you have, in every state, you have a right to protect your family and your personal being. Then each state is different about whether you have the right to protect your property.
SANCHEZ: So you think this tussle law that they have in Texas that says you have a right to protect your property holds up and changes the factors in this case?
BERNSTEIN: Part of it. But the other part of this is and you could hear it on this tape where the 911 operator is saying to the man in Texas, you know, stay inside. And that's where I'm talking about fear is greater than -- it's not just this one or two minutes that are at play. It is year's worth of fear that I'm going to be attacked or at the case In New York. Fear of the young people. Fear of a gang of kids.
SANCHEZ: Oh, there's no question. And they're yelling things at him. You know, yelling the "N" word repeatedly and we're going to get your son but they weren't arm and that's important.
But, you know, every time you and I have these conversations, I come away with this. There's nothing about the law that is perfectly straight and narrow, is it? There's a lot of wiggle room.
BERNSTEIN: Exactly, because we -- it's not a judge deciding. Remember, this was a grand jury in Texas deciding. Jurors in New York. Individual people deciding how the law applies and that's why you can get different results.
SANCHEZ: B.J. Bernstein, as usual, good to see you. Coming up, there's a tropical storm out in the Atlantic. Not a hurricane yet -- no. But her name is Bertha. Get it? As in big. How big? Well, we're going to be talking to our own Bonnie Schneider in just a little bit. And she's going to tell us how big Bertha will get.
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SANCHEZ: All right. Let's go over to Bonnie Schneider. How big is big Bertha? Can't help myself. I'm a golfer.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's OK. Bertha is definitely growing. But what's also interesting is the storm is moving very quickly across the Atlantic. Check out those speed moving to the west at 21 miles per hour. And the storm is forecast to grow to hurricane strength as early as Tuesday. A category 1.
But what it does at this point, well, that's where we're getting a lot of fluctuation. The storm may turn to the north or continue in a westward track. The computer models are varying and saying what it's going to do. But one thing this storm has already done is broken a record. In fact, look how far east this storm formed at 25 West longitude. That makes it the furthest east the storm has formed since 1967, this early in the season.
And Rick, the other big story we're following closely is the fires. The fire danger continues in California because we had those sundowner winds coming in at sunset. Those gusts could get as high as 50 miles per hour. And temperatures are also on the rise.
SANCHEZ: Big bertha. God, I love saying that. I hope she doesn't turn real big, though, because then.
SCHNEIDER: It might. Yes, we'll be watching it.
SANCHEZ: Yes. We'll watch. Thanks, Bonnie.
Here's a clue for the clueless. If you just have to light up a cigarette, don't do it while you're hauling gas and oxygen. Yes, the stories and the pictures just ahead.
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SANCHEZ: Here we go. I grew up in Hialeah, Florida so I can tell you, we got a lot of street lights in that town. The guy driving that van certainly not the brightest bulb in the bunch. Why?
You see, he's actually hauling in that van oxygen and gasoline together and he decides it would be OK to light up a cigarette. Wrong. Boom. We'll be back.
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SANCHEZ: That's it for us. Thanks so much for being with us.
I'm Rick Sanchez, Looking for you again tomorrow at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.
