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Nancy Grace

Female Soldier Disappears at Ft. Bragg

Aired July 11, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. At this hour, police investigating the mystery surrounding the disappearance of yet another beautiful young soldier, Ft. Bragg, North Carolina. Lieutenant Holley Wimunc failed to report to work. At her apartment, instead of finding Holley, co-workers find a smoldering fire inside. All signs point to arson, but not a trace of 24-year-old Lieutenant Holley Wimunc. This disappearance just weeks after Army Specialist Megan Touma found dead in a local motel near base, and Lance Corporal Maria Lauterbach also found dead near Camp LeJeune, eight months pregnant. Tonight the search for this Lieutenant Holley Wimunc.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Second Lieutenant Holley Wimunc is 24 years old. She works at the Womack Army Medical Center. A co-worker came to check on her Thursday morning after she failed to show up for work at the hospital. Police reports say the co-worker found two bedrooms had been set on fire and there was a strong odor of gasoline. A window had been shattered. Police began to investigate the case as an arson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in the process of that, we found out that the person that actually lives there is missing. So it`s an arson and a missing person, is what we`re investigating right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The missing soldier`s car was still parked out front. Investigators hauled it away to look it over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight: A shocking discovery, uptown Chicago, just hours old, an infant boy found wrapped in a plastic grocery bag, left to die, thrown away like garbage, wearing nothing but a garbage bag, cold and crying, desperate for nourishment. Miracle, the baby survives. But tonight the investigation. Who? Who left their own infant boy to die?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 5-pound newborn baby who was suffering from hypothermia was found abandoned outside a Chicago apartment building this week. When the baby boy was taken to the hospital, he not only had a body temperature of 86 degrees, but had a cut on his lip and swelling on the back of his head. Doctors say if the child was left out any longer, he might not have survived out in the elements. The hospital says that the doctors treating the baby don`t believe he was born under medical care, saying the umbilical cord had been cut, not tied off. Now police are asking for the public`s help in locating the mother who left her newborn just blocks from a safe haven.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That baby survived. Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. To North Carolina and breaking news, police investigating the disappearance of yet another beautiful young missing soldier. And tonight: Was arson used to destroy evidence?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re following the case of a missing Ft. Bragg soldier in North Carolina who has disappeared under suspicious circumstances. Police say Second Lieutenant Holley Wimunc`s apartment was intentionally set on fire. No one was found inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are saying two bedrooms were set on fire. They also found a shattered window and a strong odor of gasoline in the apartment. But police won`t say just how extensively the apartment was burned. Police say the missing woman has been going through a divorce, and her estranged husband is a Marine at Camp LeJeune, also in North Carolina, about two hours` drive from Fayetteville. A spokesman there confirmed to me this morning that Fayetteville police and state agents interviewed the husband.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Gurnal Scott with the latest, reporter with WPTF. Gurnal, three military women, all young, all beautiful, all there in North Carolina? What the hey is going on?

GURNAL SCOTT, WPTF RADIO: Well, I wish I had an answer for you. If I did, I`d be the most famous reporter that you know. But it`s a situation that has gotten most people really up in arms about what`s going on and how the military is keeping track of its people, and this latest just adds to that.

GRACE: And you know, it`s always women. It`s always a young female in some type of a confusing, contorted relationship. All three of them had these issues. Now, this woman is going through a divorce, and we have confirmed that her husband, soon to be her ex-husband, lives about two-and- a-half hours away. His residence is near Camp LeJeune. He lives in a private home. He has already been spoken to, and he is free tonight. He is not a suspect. What else do we know, Gurnal Scott?

SCOTT: Well, we do know this investigation is continuing. As you heard in some of the vignettes there, the car that was found outside of Holley Wimunc`s apartment has been taken, police originally saying that that was just a precaution, but it wouldn`t surprise me if they`ve really given that car the once-over with a fine-toothed comb to see if they can find any trace evidence. But as of now, no sign of this young Marine.

GRACE: So her car was parked there at the apartment complex?

SCOTT: Yes, it was parked outside the complex.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Beth in South Carolina. Hi, Beth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Nancy, I just want you to know that we love your show. We wouldn`t know about these people if it weren`t for you.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is the Army losing contact with these people? I mean, they`re employed by the government, and they`re not keeping up with the people here in North Carolina. How are they keeping up with the people in Iraq?

GRACE: You know what? That`s an excellent question. I want to go out to Brandon Plotnick, on-line editor with "The Fayetteville Observer." Brandon, three women in such a short space of time with our military? What`s going on?

BRANDON PLOTNICK, "FAYETTEVILLE OBSERVER": It really is a shame. We`re struggling to cope with this here in Fayetteville, of course, being a strong military community. One big difference with this case is they did a good job of trying to keep up with her. Friends and co-workers immediately were going to her home after she had failed to show up for work. Obviously, we`ve had a couple of situations where it`s been different than that. But it seems like things are going in the right direction in terms of trying to keep track of people. Unfortunately, outside of the military walls, things just keep happening.

GRACE: I want to go out to Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. Ron, thank you for being with us. What Brandon just said has a ring of truth because when co-workers got to this woman`s apartment, there were fires in two bedrooms still smoldering. In other words, they had gotten there within, I would say, 8 to 12 hours. Now, it`s clearly, in my mind -- now, I`m 1,000 miles away -- an arson because you`ve got two independent fires in two separate bedrooms and still smoldering. And also, apparently, there was the smell of accelerant.

What do you make of it? Was someone trying to destroy evidence?

RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Well, one of the classic signs you have in arson is two separate or multiple sets of origin, two points of origin there. The other classic sign you have is an accelerant, and gasoline is the number one accelerant in almost every arson. So when they got there and they smelled the gasoline, right away, the two points of origin, they suspected arson right away.

GRACE: You`re darn right. Back to Gurnal Scott with WPTF radio. Gurnal, a couple of rapid-fire questions to you. I was researching-. I noticed that a lot of the reporters stated that from where they stood, they could not see any furniture and they could not see anything on the walls of her apartment. Now, does that mean she has just moved there, that the furniture and the wall hangings were destroyed, or were they cleaned out prior to the attempted arson, Gurnal Scott?

SCOTT: Well, that is the question that police are investigating. We have heard reports of a broken window. We do know that police, when they went in to investigate what had happened with the apartment, they brought out bags of stuff. What was in those bags, police haven`t told us that yet. So we`re still trying to figure out exactly what they found in the apartment and exactly what those keys may be and what keys they may provide to where this Marine may be.

GRACE: Brandon Plotnick with "The Fayetteville Observer," do we know whether they recovered her pocketbook, her cell phone, driver`s license? Were those items left behind?

PLOTNICK: We really don`t know. They`re not saying a whole lot about what`s coming out of there right now. Obviously, with a lot of these cases going on right now, they`re being very protective of the different details coming out. And they want to make sure that they have a good, clear, clean investigation. We haven`t heard a lot about what`s been coming out there. We do know her car was there and there was ID there and things like that, but...

GRACE: There was ID there?

PLOTNICK: That`s what we`ve heard. We have not had that confirmed or anything. It`s just kind of been speculation.

GRACE: Out to Gurnal, WPTF. Gurnal, about her driver`s license, her cell phone -- I`m very interested in whether that was left behind. Also, do we know with the break-in in the window, was it a forced entry or had someone simply lifted the window? Is the outside of her apartment shingle? Is it aluminum siding? Is it brick? What I`m getting at, is it an exterior from which they can get fingerprints?

SCOTT: I would think if -- they probably have tried to get fingerprints off of that. I haven`t personally been out to the scene, but I can only think that that`s just standard practice for police to try to get any kind of evidence from the outside, from the window, from the door. Maybe they tried to get in through the door. They`ll probably dust that, as well. It seems like standard procedure to do that.

GRACE: Do we know which side the glass was found on? Was it on the inside of the apartment or the outside of the apartment?

SCOTT: That I could not tell you. I honestly do not know that.

GRACE: Because we don`t know if she`s dead or alive. We don`t know if she`s been kidnapped. We don`t know if she decided to go AWOL. We don`t have any idea at this juncture, except we do know she does not have any history of going missing.

And what can you tell me about a woman named Lindsay Hunter, Gurnal Scott? Lindsay Hunter.

SCOTT: Well, we can tell you she`s an Illinois woman who apparently had some contact with Holley Wimunc in an argument over her husband, John (ph) Wimunc. And now, apparently, according to reporting that had been done in "The Fayetteville Observer"...

GRACE: You mean they actually thought a man was worth having a big hair (ph) fight over?

SCOTT: Well, apparently so. And in contacting her recently, she says she hasn`t had contact recently and she said she was surprised to hear that this had happened to Holley Wimunc and didn`t know anything about it.

GRACE: Now, hold on just a moment. Let me go back to this woman, Lindsay Hunter. She`s in Illinois still?

SCOTT: As I understand, yes.

GRACE: Now, what can you tell me about her, Lindsay Hunter, posting photos of her, Lindsay Hunter, and this woman`s husband together on MySpace?

SCOTT: I did hear a rumor of that. I haven`t personally seen where those pictures were and haven`t seen those pictures. But I did understand that that did happen. And again, her pursuit of Holley Wimunc`s husband may have forced her to do that.

GRACE: Well, we do know that Wimunc took out a restraining order against this woman. And how long ago was that, Brandon Plotnick? When was that TRO taken out?

PLOTNICK: I really don`t know when that was taken out.

GRACE: Do you know, Gurnal?

SCOTT: It was, I believe, back in May, somewhere in the middle of May, where...

GRACE: Of 2008?

SCOTT: I believe of this year, yes.

GRACE: That`s not that long ago.

SCOTT: No.

GRACE: OK, out to the lines. Jessica in Wisconsin. Hi, Jessica.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I had a question. Do you think that -- are the cops looking into a connection between that zodiac letter and saying that there will be more killings?

GRACE: I`m wondering about that. Brandon Plotnick with "The Fayetteville Observer," we know when Touma was found murdered -- and PS, the military has just released a statement saying that, yes, in fact, Touma was murdered. Well, I guess they didn`t see the show that we did that night. We all knew she was murdered. They`re still not releasing the cause of death, the manner of death, but they are releasing that she was murdered.

Also at that time, Gurnal Scott, as you reported, there was a very unique sign reportedly left written in lipstick on a mirror inside this specialist`s motel room, a sign of the zodiac killer. Here it is. The zodiac killer, still unapprehended after all this time. The same sign was left, apparently, lipstick, mirror, in her motel room and on a letter sent to police about that murder.

To Gurnal Scott, any connection in this case? Has that sign appeared?

SCOTT: Well, our newsroom talked with Lieutenant David Sportsman (ph) of the Fayetteville Police Department, and he assures us that there is no connection between the Megan Touma case and this case involving Holley Wimunc.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Kelly in Indiana. Hi, Kelly. Hold on, Kelly. I think I`m on hold somewhere. Liz, let me know when you get Kelly back.

To Regina in Michigan. Hi, Regina.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d like to know, do they do an extensive mental evaluation on these soldiers before they`re admitted into the military?

GRACE: I`m sure that they do. I want to go back to Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. Yes, there is a -- there are a battery of tests that are given before someone enters the military, is my understanding.

SHINDEL: Yes, Nancy. There are psychological examinations on people entering the military. And if their job is even more sensitive to that -- military policeman, pilot, tank operator -- there are an additional battery of tests that to test psychological fitness.

GRACE: And let`s don`t discount the fact that the day that all this happens, the day this woman goes missing, goes AWOL, doesn`t report for work, is the husband`s -- in the middle of a divorce -- birthday.

To Lillian Glass, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Dr. Glass, weigh in. They`re in the middle of a divorce.

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: They`re in the middle of a divorce, and we know that he`s been abusive. We do have evidence to that effect because she had reported it. So that is a real consideration.

And when we talk about whether or not she had psychological tests to get into the military or for her job -- people do change and circumstances change. So she may have undergone some other issues, and that needs to be looked at, as well.

GRACE: You know, I find it interesting that people are worried about her taking a psychological test. We don`t have any indicator right now that she has staged an arson and left town. Her car is sitting right there.

To Gurnal Scott with WPTF. Is there any suggestion that her credit card or ATM have been used?

SCOTT: None that we know of thus far as far as any usage of an ATM or a credit card, or any use of her cell phone, as a matter of fact. So that we don`t know at this point. And police have not said so yet.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of New York, Joey Jackson. Also out of New York, Jennifer Bongine (ph), criminal defense attorney -- both of them. First to you, Joey. I know that in one court appearance on this TRO she had against her current husband, she did not show up to court.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. You know what, Nancy? And that`s problematic. A comment was made I believe by Dr. Glass that we know he`s been abusive. We quite frankly don`t know that. And people, you know, make allegations. And I`m not suggesting that she`s one to fabricate. We don`t know enough about her for sure.

But what we do know, Nancy, is that he answered the bell. He came to court. He came to court determined to refute the allegation. She didn`t show. And as a result of that, those charges were dismissed. So we don`t really know the extent of abuse in this relationship or if there was any abuse in the relationship.

We do also know...

GRACE: Well -- go ahead.

JACKSON: OK. We do also know that, you know, there was a petitioning of the other women you mentioned, and apparently, the husband may have had relations with the other woman. But it`s too much of a mystery and it will require too much speculation to determine what really happened.

GRACE: Well, you know what, Jennifer? If I should believe you two or my two lying eyes, the photos are apparently there on MySpace.

JENNIFER BONGINE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the MySpace photos certainly gives some credibility to this woman as potentially, I don`t know, a suspect, but someone that is worth talking to. So is the husband. And we need to look at both of these individuals, which I`m sure is what the police are doing. There can be no tunnel vision at this stage of the game with this particular missing person.

GRACE: And right now, no one has been named even a person of interest. Take a look. Missing, Lieutenant Holley Wimunc.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She placed a domestic violence complaint in May, and we got some court records that show on May 17, her husband, John Wimunc, was drunk, she reports, and threatened to kill himself. He pointed a loaded 9-millimeter gun to her head, according to this document. She also said he held the gun to his own head and wrote his initials on a bullet. And she took out a restraining order against him, but it was dismissed a few days later, after Holley Wimunc did not show up for court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This young woman, another beautiful, gorgeous lieutenant there in North Carolina, has gone missing. When co-workers show up at her apartment, they found not a trace of Holley, but instead a smoldering fire. Was arson used to destroy evidence? Not a trace of Holley Wimunc.

We are taking your calls. Straight out to the lines. Lori in New York. Hi, Lori.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love to you and the twins. They`re adorable.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Question. Have the police looked into the possibility that maybe she had started the fire to collect on insurance money?

GRACE: Interesting question. That`s why I`m trying to find out, was the glass on the inside of the apartment or the outside of the apartment. Gurnal Scott, what do we know about that theory?

SCOTT: That has certainly been a theory that has come up, and police are not dismissing anything at this point. That could be the case, or it could be the fact that there has been some harm or some kind of thing done to this Marine.

GRACE: But why would they suspect that she was staging a disappearance or kidnap?

SCOTT: Good question. Police aren`t really saying much about their investigation. Of course, we hope to find out as much, as you`re hoping to find out, and who`s behind all this.

GRACE: You know, they thought the same thing about Lauterbach, and she turned up dead, buried under somebody`s barbecue pit.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One neighbor who has kept a close eye on the domestic disputes she said have happened across her balcony says she has a bad feeling about this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m really scared. I don`t have a good feeling about it. She seemed like a real nice person. She works where I work. And I just hope that they find her and she`s OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: No history in the past of disappearing, not showing up for work. No drama going on. When co-workers got to her apartment, they find not a trace of this Lieutenant Holley Wimunc, instead they find a smoldering fire.

We`re taking your calls live. Why are all the women there in North Carolina in the military dropping dead and disappearing?

Out to Joe Lenczyk, resident agent-in-charge with the ATF Fayetteville field office. Agent, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me about the fire? I know it`s an ongoing investigation.

JOE LENCZYK, RESIDENT AGENT-IN-CHARGE, ATF: Well, Nancy, good evening. What I can tell you is it`s definitely an arson. As you talked about earlier in your show, multiple points of origin is one indicator of multiple indicators that would indicate a set fire or arson. So that`s for certain. What we`re working on now -- all the investigators involved with North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation, ATF and Fayetteville Police Department, we`re working on trying to find out who did it and why they did it.

GRACE: Hey, Agent? Stay with us, Agent. But when I get back, I want to find out one thing. Had her apartment been cleared out of furniture?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Second Lieutenant Holley Wimunc is 24 years old. She works at the Womack Army Medical Center.

Police and federal agents searched her home through the night at the Morganton Place Apartments. A co-worker came to check on her Thursday morning after she failed to show up for work at the hospital.

Police reports say the co-worker found two bedrooms had been set on fire and there was a strong odor of gasoline. A window had been shattered.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: She didn`t show up for work and they know she is very prompt, so they were suspicious about her not being at work and they come out here to check on her.

Any evidence that will let us know where she may have gone or -- we`re trying to contact next of -- any of her relatives that may know where she may be. These are the type things that are taking place as I speak right now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Another gorgeous, young military specialist missing. Now this young lady, Lieutenant Holley Wimunc, is gone. When co-workers go to her apartment to inquire, they find not a trace of Holley but instead a smoldering fire.

We`re taking your calls live.

I want to go back to ATF field agent Joe Lenczyk.

Agent, thank you for being with us. Were items taken from her apartment?

JOE LENCZYK, RESIDENT AGENT-IN-CHARGE, ATF FAYETTEVILLE FIELD OFFICE: When you say were items taken, your question before the break was about furniture. And to answer that question about furniture being removed there was, in fact, furniture in the apartment and that`s about as much detail I want to go into about that.

GRACE: Now, I notice, agent, that you have differentiated between furniture and wall hangings and items being taken. I find that extremely interesting. I realize this is an ongoing investigation and you are limited in your comments. But.

LENCZYK: Well, Nancy, one possible explanation for that would be the fact that they were allegedly estranged -- Lieutenant Wimunc and her husband. And.

GRACE: Yes. So he may have some of the belongings.

LENCZYK: And they were living at about 2 1/2 hours apart. He near Camp Lejeune and she in Fayetteville.

GRACE: Right.

So that could be an innocent explanation as to why certain things are missing or he may even have half of the belongings if they are headed to a divorce.

Right now you`re seeing a shot of who we believe to be Marine Corporal John Wimunc from his MySpace page.

I want to go back to ATF field agent Joe Lenczyk, kind enough to be here with us from Fayetteville, North Carolina.

Sir, why is the ATF on this case?

LENCZYK: Well, Nancy, ATF routinely investigates apartment fires and other building fires or structures fires that affect interstate commerce. We basically work it from the federal explosives laws that we enforce. It pertains to damaging building affecting commerce either by explosive or fire.

GRACE: That`s very interesting because out of all the arson cases I ever prosecuted, I never had the ATF come into the case. It was always a local arson or local police. So why is this different?

LENCZYK: Well, Nancy, we work collaboratively with our state and local partners. We have a task -- an arson task force within the Fayetteville/Cumberland County and they routinely call upon us and we call upon them to investigate fires and for us, in particular, commercial fires, business fires and apartment fires.

GRACE: Agent Lenczysk, was the glass in the break-in on the inside or outside of the window?

LENCZYK: I`d rather not comment about that. Sorry.

GRACE: The outside of the apartment -- is that aluminum siding from which fingerprints can be lifted?

LENCZYK: Fingerprints could potentially be lifted and the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation, the Fayetteville Police Department, their CSI units, have been working very diligently at looking at all possible trace and other evidence left at the scene both inside and outside.

GRACE: Do we know which window? Can you tell us which window is broken?

LENCZYK: I`d rather not say, Nancy, on that one.

GRACE: OK.

LENCZYK: I don`t want to say anything at this particular time because it`s ongoing and there`s other.

GRACE: I understand.

LENCZYK: . agencies involved.

GRACE: Agent Lenczysk, one other thing at this juncture, the fires, the two smoldering fire set in two different areas of the apartment, from what material was used to start the fire? Her clothing? Just the carpet?

LENCZYK: Well, I`m not going to go into the details of the arson, but what I can tell you is if you have two multiple areas of origin like in this case, for example, one of the ways that you could start a fire would be by use of accelerant as you described earlier in your show. As the gentleman said earlier, gasoline is one potential accelerant to be used.

It`s not exclusively limited to gasoline. It could be a number of other accelerants. And we`re looking into all of those possible accelerants and what we`re doing now is waiting on the results from the state bureau of investigation laboratory as to what, if any, accelerant was used.

GRACE: And do you have any idea whether any of her clothing have been taken from the apartment?

LENCZYK: I don`t know the answer to that question, but, yes, everything has been -- is being looked at, you know, and all leads are being run, you know.

GRACE: OK.

LENCZYK: . to try to find out where she`s at.

GRACE: And the reason I asked -- Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author --- Dr. Glass, if her clothes, for instance, had been placed in a pile and set on fire, that would suggest to me that somebody else did it, because in arsons that I have prosecuted, typically people try to save their clothes.

I had one guy set his house on fire, started going from laundry to laundry to laundry all around his area, starting closest to his home and going outward. Found 75 shirts and 10 suits at one dry cleaner. OK? Because he wanted to save his personal possessions.

So what I`m saying is if somebody started this fire with her personal possessions, it would suggest it wasn`t her. Do you understand?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": Absolutely. And it would be -- you know, a lot of rage there for somebody that would use her.

GRACE: To use her.

GLASS: . set her belongings.

GRACE: . personal clothes.

GLASS: Exactly.

GRACE: And what would that say to you? That possibly it was someone that knew her very well?

GLASS: Yes.

GRACE: That would set fire to her personal belongings?

GLASS: Absolutely. Somebody that would know her very well, somebody that would have so much vehemence against her, somebody that would hate her and want to see her completely destroyed.

GRACE: Out to the lines, to Tammy in Pennsylvania. Hi, Tammy.

TAMMY, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi. We just want to, first of all, say that we love you and you are definitely our hero for all the work you do.

GRACE: Thank you.

TAMMY: Enjoy them kids. It goes by fast. I have four of my own.

The question was -- I know with the previous two cases that they were pregnant. Do they know anything about that, if she was pregnant?

GRACE: Excellent question.

Gurnal Scott, do we know whether she was pregnant?

GURNAL SCOTT, ANCHOR/REPORTER, WPTF RADIO: We do not know. We have not even heard whether she was a mother at this point. We know in her work at the hospital she worked in the mother and baby ward, but that`s the only reference to kids that we have heard about in this case.

GRACE: You know, Brandon Plotnick, it was my understanding she had either one or two children by another relationship.

BRANDON PLOTNICK, ONLINE EDITOR, FAYETTEVILLE OBSERVER: Yes, one of our reporters was talking to some folks earlier today. I`m not sure who they confirmed it with. But we have heard that she has kids. We do not know a number or anything other than the word kids, implying pleural there. And we have heard they are safe.

We don`t know if that means they are with family or anything like that. All we know is that they are safe. We don`t know who the father is.

GRACE: OK. Brandon, do we know how long she has been stationed here?

PLOTNICK: I believe she has been here a little over a year. I do not know.

GRACE: And were the children living with her?

PLOTNICK: I have not heard anything of that.

GRACE: OK. To Joe Lenczyk -- Joe, did you see any of the children`s belongings in the apartment? Were the children living there?

LENCZYK: No, I didn`t, Nancy.

GRACE: Interesting. Interesting.

Back out to the lines, Katie, South Carolina, hi, Katie.

KATIE, SOUTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to say that I am a military wife and my husband and I were stationed at Camp Lejeune for three years and we could take daily shopping trips if we wanted to Fayetteville.

So what I`m asking is, do you know if her husband happened to have an alibi, and -- because it`s very easy to, you know.

GRACE: Yes, just two hours.

KATIE: Right. So that`s what I was wondering, if her husband happened to have an alibi.

GRACE: Gurnal Scott, I understand that he`s been questioned and released.

SCOTT: That is correct. From what we have heard, he has been questioned and released back to his unit. However, no details of what the line of questioning was or what kind of approach they took towards him have been released by investigators.

GRACE: And also, we have been told that`s he is being cooperative.

To medical examiner, forensic pathologist, Dr. David M. Posey, joining us out of L.A -- question, what type of evidence would you be looking for inside the apartment?

DR. DAVID M. POSEY, MEDICAL EXAMINER, GLEN OAKS PATHOLOGY MEDICAL GROUP: Well, obviously, the fire is going to destroy a lot of the evidence. But anything you can look for -- was there a weapon there that could have possibly been used, a piece of wood that wasn`t completely burned, firearms, something like that.

GRACE: Can you get DNA that has been charred?

POSEY: No, no. If the good evidence has been completely burned, DNA is like a plastic. It`s a protein, so it will melt and disintegrate and you won`t be able to get any DNA evidence from burned material.

GRACE: Everybody, the tip line in this case, 910-433-1856. That`s the Fayetteville Police Department, major crimes division. 910-433-1856.

When we come back, a shocking discovery uptown Chicago just hours old, an infant boy found wrapped in a plastic grocery bag, left to die, thrown away like garbage, wearing nothing but the garbage bag. Cold, crying, desperate for nourishment. Miracle. The baby survives.

But tonight, who left their infant boy to die?

And tonight happy birthday to New York friend of the show, Michael McFadden. Happy birthday, Michael.

And tonight, at your request, the twins. I`ll post these on the web. This is the love train. John David grabs a blanket, Lucy grabs the other end. And he pulls her around. She`s the caboose and he is the conductor. There they go.

There she is enjoying the economist, John David, making some long distance calls on a BlackBerry. There they are out for a walk. John David sees the rain for the first time, and Lucy. And here they are. They`re talking baby talk.

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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police are asking for the public`s help in locating the mother of an abandoned newborn who was left outside an apartment building.

The five pound newborn who doctors say was probably less than a day old was suffering from hypothermia and had a body temperature of 86 degrees. When the baby was taken to the local hospital, the doctor also noticed that the baby had a cut on his lip and swelling on the back of his head.

The local resident who found the baby says he was wrapped in a plastic grocery bag and put in the bushes next to the front driveway of the apartment building.

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GRACE: Wearing nothing but a garbage bag? The little baby, about 24 hours old, at best, body temperature dipping dangerously low.

Straight out to Ofelia Casillas joining us with the "Chicago Tribune."

Ofelia, it`s great to have you on with us tonight. Tell me what happened.

OFELIA CASILLAS, CHILD WELFARE REPORTER, THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE: Well, residents heard a baby crying early Tuesday morning. Most of them figured that it was a baby in another apartment or even an animal screeching. One resident went outside and discovered a baby in a grocery bag in the shrubbery of the courtyard.

GRACE: And did what with the baby?

CASILLAS: Basically, he took it directly to the fire house. And police were called. The hospital was called. The baby had hypothermia. Weighed only five pounds. Had only been alive for a few hours. Had a cut on his lip that was not believed to have happened during childbirth.

After arriving at the hospital, the baby`s temperature went up to 86 degrees, so the baby improved. And doctors are optimistic.

GRACE: Little thing. Look at this little baby. And the kicker, Michael Morrisey, this is a Baby Safe Haven jurisdiction, and I think it was 0.2 miles away. There was a fire house where they could have left the baby.

I want to go back to Ofelia Casillas with the "Chicago Tribune."

Ofelia, how close was the fire department?

CASILLAS: Very, very close. And in our state there is a law that allows you to leave a baby at a fire house or hospital within seven days of it being born and no questions asked.

GRACE: Back to you, Michael Morrisey, with Baby Safe Haven in New England, the fire house was only 0.2 miles away. I think.

MICHAEL MORRISEY, BABY SAFE-HAVEN NEW ENGLAND: Well, from what I understand of the story it`s walking distance, I believe. The gentleman that found the baby walked there probably in a matter of a minute or two. Also it`s -- police stations were amended into the Baby Safe Haven law in Illinois about a year and a half ago.

GRACE: You know, this baby could have easily died, everyone.

And how do we know, Dr. David Posey, that the child had been born only 24 hours before at best?

POSEY: Well, probably a good hint would be the umbilical cord because they said the umbilical cord had been cut. And, you know, most babies after several days -- it will start to dry up and get to a point of falling off. So if the umbilical cord still seemed a little bit moist, that would give the doctors a real good idea that it had just been a few hours old and not more than that.

GRACE: And also, Dr. Posey, we believe that the child was not born at a hospital because the umbilical cord had been cut but not tied.

Explain the significance.

POSEY: Well, normally in the hospitals, they have little clamps that they put on the umbilical cord and it`s pretty natural to see that. And I see it all the time in the babies that I see.

But here where it`s been cut, it sounds like what had happened is the baby was born, and there`s a little bit of time delay in the delivering of the placenta, which gives time for the physiologic changes so the baby is not going to bleed to death.

So when the mom cut the umbilical cord -- we see this all the time in our pets, in our cats and dogs, they deliver their babies. They chew off the cord and their babies do just fine. So I have a feeling in this case that`s exactly what happened with the baby. Delivered the placenta and then a little bit later mom cut the cord.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers -- Joey Jackson, Jennifer Bongi.

Jennifer, what kind of time is this mom facing if she is found?

JENNIFER BONGI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you still have to determine whether she had a criminal mind when she did this. It could have been a young child. It could have been someone with a diminished mental capacity. It could have been someone that was not even thinking straight. I`m sure she wasn`t thinking straight to leave your child.

She wasn`t rational. The -- there`s a lot to consider before we can even determine whether this is a crime.

GRACE: Joey Jackson?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, that`s absolutely true. And interestingly enough, Nancy, you know, this story in and of itself is going to save lives. There is that safe haven act. The problem is that people are not knowledgeable about it. Now they are. And unfortunately, they weren`t at the time.

GRACE: Tonight, "CNN HEROES."

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MARIA RUIZ, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: I was born and raised in El Paso. El Paso and Juarez, Mexico -- they are known as the twin cities but you cross over the border into Juarez, you notice the difference.

In 1996, I came to the outskirts of Juarez. When I saw the poverty level that they were living in, with no water, no electricity, my world changed completely.

I`m Maria Ruiz and I cross the border to help people in Juarez. I decided to start the food program. I cooked and I cooked every day and then I brought it over here. I fed approximately 1,200 kids on a daily basis for 3 1/2 years.

Now we collect the donations, we take furniture, food, toys, almost about anything.

We`re ready to go.

Crossing the border involves a lot of work and time.

Do you have any food items?

I have crossed, oh, thousands of times. We give out whatever we have.

Buenos dias.

Just like the distribution center.

Gracias.

All of the work we do is part of the Families Ministry. It`s a team effort. But regardless of whether they`re Christian, it`s equal for everybody.

The kids are the ones that keep me going, but I don`t consider myself a hero. I know I can do much more.

ANNOUNCER: July is the last month to nominate someone you know as a CNN HERO for 2008. Go to CNN.com/heroes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important, the people who touched our lives.

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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Miami-Dade Police are investigating the death of a University of Miami student found dead in his own home. Police are treating the death as a homicide and continue to comb the crime scene for possible evidence.

GRACE: That is not a spray from a gunshot wound. That is not -- apparently not dripping from the victim himself. That looks like transfer marks to me.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news out of Colorado. Newly discovered DNA evidence does not match any Ramsey family member. The Boulder D.A. has released a letter officially clearing the Ramsey family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have just pronounced the innocence of the Ramseys. I hope you will be respectful of this child and the public`s right to know the truth and you will tomorrow release for public consumption all of the evidence that you gathered that implicated the Ramseys.

GRACE: What a story. A beautiful 22-year-old mom. A tiny tot, and a 2- year-old, all asphyxiated, strangled to death. Found by relatives in their own suburban home. And this, just 20 days, 2-0, 20 days after the mom took out a TRO, a temporary restraining order, against the prime suspect, the children`s own father.

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GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Michael Phillips, just 19, Ardmore, Oklahoma, killed, Iraq. Infectious smile, loved drawing, history, running. Leaves behind parents Angelia and Steve, brothers David and Anthony, sister Barbara.

Michael Phillips, American hero.

Thank you to our guests but most of all to you for being with us. And here`s one of the first pictures of our executive producer Dean Sicoli`s newest little crime fighter William.

Congratulations, Dean and Karin.

And tonight, good night from Georgia friends of the show Diana and Monica. Aren`t they beautiful?

And a special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Brett, Liz, Rosy.

Everybody, we`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END