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Campbell Brown
McCain, Obama Spar Over Afghanistan; Flying Fiasco for People on Terror Watch List; Cindy McCain's Fortune, Influence and Politics
Aired July 15, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, everybody.
Barack Obama and John McCain going head-to-head today with big speeches on Iraq, Afghanistan, and the war on terror. But what has a lot of people talking is a pretty fascinating new poll on the war. And here is the headline.
John McCain beats Barack Obama by a mile when it comes to which candidate would be a good commander in chief. Now, if that's surprising to you, well, there's a lot more. Wait until you hear about it. That's coming up in just a moment.
Also today, the president telling Americans who are feeling trapped in an economic stranglehold over gas prices and the mortgage mess to -- quote -- "take a deep breath."
So, feel better now? Well, what we really need, I think, is a reality check.
And our moneyman, Ali Velshi, is here with that tonight.
Plus, Cindy McCain's family business is all about beer. It's worth more than 100 million bucks. Will that be a headache if her husband wins? It's all right here in the ELECTION CENTER tonight -- no bias, no bull.
But, first, tonight's news from the campaign trail. The candidates are locked in a war of words, both on message. John McCain says he knows how to win wars and promises success in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Barack Obama calls Iraq a dangerous distraction, and wants to focus on Afghanistan.
So, with Obama reportedly headed to the region soon, who's got the winning plan?
CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is here with the very latest -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Campbell.
You know, when people always say, I really wish there were two candidates with opposing views, so we could really see the difference between the two of them, well, this year, they have that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CROWLEY (voice-over): It is one of the brightest lines along the campaign trail, the candidate who thinks the Iraq war is a distraction from every threat the U.S. faces.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As should have been apparent to President Bush and Senator McCain, the central front in the war on terror is not Iraq. And it never was.
CROWLEY: The candidate who says winning in Iraq is central to meeting the threats the U.S. faces.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan.
CROWLEY: A long-distance debate over the U.S. future in Iraq and beyond comes as Barack Obama prepares for an expected trip to Afghanistan and Iraq. Offering McCain an assist from the Oval Office, President Bush suggested Obama listen to military leaders on the ground there.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: it's a temptation to let the politics at home get in the way, you know, with the considered judgment of the commanders.
CROWLEY: New numbers suggest Obama needs to power up his foreign policy pitch. An ABC/"Washington Post" poll found 72 percent of Americans think John McCain would be a good commander in chief for the military -- 48 percent said that of Obama, an advantage McCain presses early and often.
MCCAIN: I know how to win wars.
CROWLEY: Also troubling for Obama, a vast majority of Americans are against the war, but McCain has a slight edge when respondents were asked, who do they trust more to handle Iraq?
OBAMA: George Bush and John McCain don't have a strategy for success in Iraq. They have a strategy for staying in Iraq. They say we couldn't leave when violence was up, and they now say that we can't leave when violence is down.
CROWLEY: The increase in U.S. troops that led to a decrease in the violence in Iraq has altered campaign dynamics. It gives McCain running room on an issue where he's mostly played defense. He notes Obama's opposition to the surge.
MCCAIN: Today, we know he was wrong. The surge has succeeded.
CROWLEY: Obama now concedes some surge success, and is trying to turn the discussion elsewhere.
OBAMA: The greatest threat to that security lies in the tribal regions of Pakistan, where terrorists train and insurgents strike into Afghanistan. We cannot tolerate a terrorist sanctuary. And, as president, I will not. CROWLEY: The message, Obama is willing to use U.S. military muscle. McCain argues Pakistan, an ally in the war on terror, is not the place.
MCCAIN: In trying to sound tough, he's made it harder for the people whose support we most need to provide it. I won't bluster. And I won't make idle threats.
CROWLEY: The problem for McCain is that while he polls well as a potential commander in chief, polls also show the economy remains issue number one. And, there, Obama scores higher.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And Candy Crowley back with us live now.
And, Candy, stay right there.
As you know, Barack Obama clearly does have an Iraq problem, even though many Americans are with him on the war. So, what does he have to do now with his trip to the region just a few days away.
Along with Candy, I want to bring in Cliff May, who is president of the Foundation for Defense of Democracies, right-leaning organization, and Joan Walsh, editor of the left-leaning Salon.com.
And, Joan, let me start with you.
Obama giving this big speech today on Iraq, as Candy was just reporting, but also facing criticism on the timing. And listen to what John McCain said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: Why doesn't he talk to General Petraeus before he outlines a strategy in Iraq? Why not talk to him for the first time, ask for a personal briefing with General Petraeus? Why not take your first trip ever to Afghanistan before you come out with a speech on what we need to do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, Joan, why do you think Obama did need to rush out and make a speech now? Why not wait until he gets back from his trip?
JOAN WALSH, EDITOR IN CHIEF, SALON.COM: I don't think he's rushing out by any means, Campbell.
You know, he's been running for president for a year-and-a-half. This is a pressing issue. I think he has a lot to say, based on his experience here and based on his conversations with generals here.
One of the things he did today that I think was important was link it to Afghanistan, and also link it to our problems at home. He's strong on the economy. And that's our top issue. So, I think he -- you know, that was a great thing about the speech, was showing all of our squandered opportunities here at home.
And, you know, another really strong thing about Barack Obama is that he's a synthesizer. He will go over there. I think he needs to listen. I think that's clear. I think he needs to really be with our troops, and be with the generals.
BROWN: Right.
WALSH: But, you know, I think he's -- all the candidates who were running for president, they all had their plans for Iraq. I don't think it's too early to be doing this.
BROWN: All right, well, Joan, before I bring the other two in, let me also ask you, "The New York Daily News" reported today that Obama, that the campaign erased Obama's past criticism of the surge of troops in Iraq from its Web site.
They're basically to trying to hide the fact that he said originally that the surge wouldn't bring violence down. And, in fact, it has.
WALSH: I'm not sure that's entirely fair, Campbell.
I mean, I haven't really delved into the site. I know that they say, the Obama people say they replaced one plan with another. That's fair game. It's his Web site. It's not meant to be the eternal Internet archive of everything he's ever said about Iraq. And he admitted that he's been -- that he's had doubts about the surge.
BROWN: Cliff, do you buy that?
CLIFF MAY, PRESIDENT, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: No, not entirely.
Look, I do think he was ill-advised, Obama was here. He's going to Iraq for a fact-finding mission. He's going to speak with General Petraeus, who is now our commander for Iraq and Afghanistan as well, and Odierno, who is taking over as chief commander in Iraq.
And, yet, on Monday, he has an op-ed that says, "My Plan for Iraq." That suggests that he doesn't care what facts he finds on his fact-finding mission. He's already made up his mind.
It's also true that just before July 4, he seemed to be moving to the center on this, saying that he was going to refine his plans on Iraq, that he wanted to see what the conditions were on the ground, that he wanted to make sure that he didn't give up the gains that have been made with so much blood and treasure, that he didn't allow al Qaeda to have a comeback, didn't allow the Iranian proxies to have a comeback.
He got hit from the left because of that, from July 4 to now, and he seems to be going back to his old position, saying, no, I want 16 months, a timetable, and I'm going to keep to that timetable. I think that is a mistake politically and from a policy point of view.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: But, actually, I really think that's fair, Cliff, because I think he needs -- his rationale for his candidacy, honestly, from the beginning was his opposition to the war and his pledge to get us out in a timely way, not reckless. And I think he needed to restate that position. I think it was important...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Let me bring Candy into this.
Candy, what are they saying? What is the campaign's feeling about mounting expectations for this trip right now?
CROWLEY: I have always thought, in fact, that this was a pretty high-risk trip for Obama politically, because he does -- as we saw in his poll numbers, he doesn't do as well as McCain does. So, this is a chance. What they see this as, not just Iraq and Afghanistan, but other places that he intends to go in Europe and elsewhere, that, in fact, you can envision him on the international scene.
It's something that he needs to do. Obviously, they know that foreign policy is one of the soft points. I mean, they are selling it as judgment, obviously, because he was opposed to the war from the beginning. But he needs to be out there, so that people can see him in an international playing field.
But I think it's high risk. I think there's some pressure there, because they obviously have a plan for this trip, and that plan is that people can see seek him and envision him as commander in chief.
BROWN: All right, Candy, Cliff, and Joan, stay with us. There's more to this story. We're going to talk about John McCain shifting position on Afghanistan, also, some surprising poll numbers on which candidate Americans think would be the best commander in chief.
Then, later, Cindy McCain's million-dollar beer business, could it be a big problem in a McCain White House? That's when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Those numbers a sobering reminder of what's at stake in the war and why it remains a top issue in the race for the White House.
As for where it all stands today, the latest CNN poll of polls shows Barack Obama with a six-point lead over John McCain. But, of course, the election is not today, still 111 days away. So, that poll is not the whole story.
CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider is here to talk about those poll results on who Americans trust to be commander in chief.
And, Bill, let's look at this new ABC News/"Washington Post" poll. They asked if people supported Obama's plan of withdrawing on a 16-month timetable or McCain's plan of letting events on the ground dictate a withdrawal without a timetable.
And the American people almost equally divided. This is after months of debate about it. What does that tell you?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It tells me that Obama has fought John McCain to a draw on the crucial issue of military judgment, who has the better plan to withdrawal. The poll question explicitly associated these two options with the candidates.
They called it Obama's plan and McCain's plan. Now, in Candy's report, you saw that McCain has a big edge on who do Americans think is more qualified to be commander in chief. Americans know he has a military record, that he's familiar with military affairs, that he knows the world, that he has a lot more experience with the world.
So, in this case, for Obama to match McCain in terms of who has the better withdrawal plan for dealing with Iraq, a lot of people would say he's fought him to a draw, and that's pretty good.
BROWN: And, Bill, you mentioned, as Candy reported earlier, this poll that showed, I think, 72 percent of Americans thought that McCain would be a good commander in chief of the military, while only 48 percent thought Obama would.
But then another question asked who people would trust more to handle the war in Iraq, and the result was almost an even split. How does that work?
SCHNEIDER: Well, similar to the other question, people have more personal confidence in McCain's military knowledge and his expertise in military affairs. They think he would be more qualified to be commander in chief.
But Obama, again, has come very close to McCain in terms of who they trust for handling Iraq. It was a five-point lead for McCain back in March.
And now it's a two-point lead for McCain. People tend to agree with Obama's policy views on Iraq more than McCain's, but they have a good deal more confidence in McCain's personal qualities of leadership and his military knowledge than Obama. So, the result is, on both of these questions, it's a wash. And, for Obama, I think, matching McCain on an important foreign policy issue, he would regard as a breakthrough, because he's way ahead of McCain on domestic and economic issues.
BROWN: All right, Bill, appreciate it -- Bill Schneider for us tonight.
Now, Barack Obama, as Bill mentioned, does have a big problem on the issue of Iraq. And he's running out of time to solve it. So, what does he do now? We have some of the smartest people in politics back with us to talk about that, Candy Crowley, Cliff May, and Joan Walsh.
And, Joan, less than half the country thinks that Obama would be a good commander in chief. You heard those numbers, pretty stark contrast with McCain. How do you explain it? If he even takes 12 trips to Iraq between now and November, can he realistically catch up to McCain on this crucial question?
WALSH: You know, he probably can't catch up, Campbell, to be honest with you.
Here's the deal. I think that John McCain is respected and even beloved in this country for his war service, for his suffering, and for his courage as a POW. And, you know, that's a personal, visceral feeling that even Democrats have about him. And it gives him an enormous advantage over Obama on that one question.
But I would also say, you know, Hillary Clinton in a lot of exit polls, scored higher as a potential commander in chief, and she didn't win the Democratic primary. So, it's a very crucial question and I don't want to dismiss it, but it is not the only thing that people are voting on. So I think he can close the gap, but he probably won't ever catch up.
BROWN: Well, to that point, Cliff, how much will it matter that McCain is leading on national security issues? The economy is issue number one by a long shot with voters. And given how the economy looks right now, it doesn't look like that's going to change.
MAY: No, that's probably true, assuming that there are no terrorist attacks to remind us of the enemy we have out there.
But keep in mind that the main issue within the economy is the price of oil. People are really very upset about that, and they understand very well that the price of energy right now is affecting the economy.
And quite a few people also understand that there's a national security dimension to this, because every time we go to the pump, we are helping to finance our enemies, al Qaeda and other militant Islamist groups, because this money goes to Iran. This money goes to Saudi Arabia, which is a great source for terrorist groups.
So, it all goes back to national security, as well as gas. And, on gas, of course, Obama, right now, does not have a plan that I think most people are grasping on what he's going to do to either bring down the cost at the pump or how he's going to...
WALSH: I would disagree.
MAY: ... give us energy security in the future.
Well, you tell me what his plan is, because he doesn't want to drill. And as far as I understand it, he doesn't want to drill more.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Drilling doesn't solve anything for at least 10 years. Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
MAY: What solves things in the next 10 years, Joan?
WALSH: Nothing. Honestly, nothing will solve things very shortly.
(CROSSTALK)
MAY: Joan, I don't think that's an answer most people want to hear. I think people want to hear a short-term plan, a medium-term plan and a long-term plan.
(CROSSTALK)
MAY: Right now, I think that McCain has the advantage on that.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Please let me talk.
BROWN: Go ahead, Joan.
WALSH: Listen, Obama, first of all, today did something extremely smart in that speech. He linked his overall security plan to energy security and energy independence, which John McCain can't even begin to talk about, which George Bush won't even begin to talk about.
So, it's fun to hear Cliff talking about these issues of funding al Qaeda and funding our enemies at the gas pump when it's Democrats who are talking about energy independence
(CROSSTALK)
MAY: How are we going to get to energy independence, because I don't understand?
WALSH: This is not what we're here to talk about. But I think that Obama's energy rebate is probably the smartest thing and the fastest thing anybody could do to ease the pain at the pump.
BROWN: Candy, let me bring it back to the commander in chief question. Does the Obama campaign know they have a problem?
CROWLEY: Sure. They have known it all along.
But, as was recently noted, they have the same problem in the primary. And he still beat Hillary Clinton.
However, we are talking to a different population now. It's not just Democrats. There are independents.
And Hillary Clinton did some damage on that score. So, he is behind on that. He does know, obviously, that that's a weak point. It's one of the reasons they want to take this trip. They also are counting on the economy. And, you know, when the default position for Americans when the economy is in trouble is a Democrat, and that obviously is something that they are counting on.
BROWN: All right, got to end it there, guys. Candy, Cliff, and Joan, many thanks to all of you. Appreciate it.
At a New Mexico town hall meeting today, a boy asked Senator McCain when he will announce his running mate. McCain wouldn't say, but listen to the boy's follow-up question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What qualities are you looking for in a vice presidential running mate?
MCCAIN: Someone exactly like you.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCAIN: Young, vigorous, talented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, if you think you know who that might be, or you just want to guess, well, go online at CNN.com/electioncenter, and click on the veepstakes link. We have set up a game that works a little bit like the stock market.
You can predict a winner, and check the political fortunes of every possible running mate. For the Republicans, Mitt Romney is our current leader, followed by Florida Governor Charlie Crist. For the Democrats, Senator Joe Biden is the overall top choice, followed by Senator Hillary Clinton.
And, again, to make you own picks in our veepstakes game, really easy, log on to CNN.com/electioncenter.
Talking up the economy is job one for the Bush administration today, but it doesn't sound like everybody is on the same page. You're going to hear what we mean coming up next.
Then, later, a list you don't want to be on, especially if you are a frequent flier. So, why are more and more ordinary folks getting jammed upon it before they even get on a plane?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: When will the economy turn around?
QUESTION: Yes.
BUSH: I'm not an economist. But I do believe that we're growing. And I can remember -- you know this press conference here -- people yelling "recession" that as if you're economists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, that was President Bush at this morning's White House news conference. So, since he isn't an economist, and the reporters aren't economists, let's listen to what a real economist told lawmakers on Capitol Hill today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN BERNANKE, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: The economy continues to face numerous difficulties, including ongoing strains of financial markets, declining house prices, a softening labor market, and rising prices of oil, food and some other commodities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Senior business correspondent Ali Velshi here with me now to try to make sense of all this for us.
Ali, and we just heard from the president. We just heard from Ben Bernanke. I don't any anybody listening was filled with any great sense of confidence after either of those two comments.
Let's go through it piecemeal and talk about how it effects the folks at home. First, the inflations numbers, not a lot of good news here, right?
ALI VELSHI, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It's actually the biggest thing facing Americans right now, because it's the gas you buy. It's the food you eat.
Now, tomorrow morning, we're going to get the inflation numbers at the retail level, what you and I pay. But, today, we got the sneak preview. It was at the producer level, wholesale inflation growing at the fastest pace in 27 years. The increase now compared to a year ago, 9.2 percent.
Show me somebody who got 9.2 percent on their investments, who got a 9.2 percent raise. That comes right out of your pocket, because it just costs more to do stuff. Tomorrow morning, we will have more news on that.
BROWN: And the dollar fell even more in value. But here is an area where you think there may be some silver lining.
VELSHI: Yes. The dollar hit $1.60 to a euro today, which is the lowest it's ever been, although it's been hovering around that area. Now, that's bad if you are planning a trip to Europe, like I am next week, or -- we buy a lot of imported stuff. That makes it bad.
The good side of a low dollar is that it makes U.S.-produced goods more attractive to other countries, who then buy more of it. It could actually have the consequence of creating more jobs here in the United States if this carries on for a long time. So, the dollar is a good and a bad. BROWN: And, finally, where so much of our money seems to be going these days, the gas we are putting in our cars and the effect that that's having on the auto industry.
VELSHI: Yes, well, General Motors again for I think it's the third time in less than a month coming out with a new plan to try and stem the losses.
That company has been talked about as going into bankruptcy. So, they came out today to quash those rumors. But the stock price is under $10 a share, the lowest it's been in 54 years -- General Motors saying it needs to save $15 billion over the next year. So, you know what they're doing? They are going to stop building even more trucks. They are going to have 300,000 fewer trucks at the end of the year. They're adding about 50,000 more cars to their capacity.
Americans are making the decisions to run away from trucks and SUVs, and General Motors says they think gas prices and oil prices are staying where they are for awhile. So, that's a problem. The only bright side of this is that, today, for some reason, we had the biggest -- the second-biggest drop in history for a barrel of oil. It's still over 135 bucks a barrel, though.
BROWN: All of this forcing a lot of us to make a lot of changes in our lives, corporations, everybody individually.
VELSHI: Yes.
BROWN: Anyway, Ali Velshi, good to have you here, as always. Appreciate it, Ali.
VELSHI: My pleasure.
BROWN: Our investigative correspondent, Drew Griffin, went to the airport and found an outrageous example of your government at work -- next, why a growing number of ordinary frequent fliers are finding their names on the terrorist watch list.
Then later, a story people are going to be talking about. It's about money and power -- how Cindy McCain's multimillion-dollar family beer business might mean political problems for her husband if he wins the race for the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It is a list nobody wants to be on, the government's terror watch list. The feds are taking names of people linked to terrorism, and at the airport, anybody on the list gets thoroughly searched and questioned.
And a lot of innocent people with no connections to terrorism somehow get on this list, and face hassles, embarrassment, delays.
And, as CNN's Drew Griffin reports, there's no clear way to get off the list.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATION UNIT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Washington Attorney Jim Robinson is a former assistant attorney general. He's a former U.S. attorney from Michigan. He holds a high level government security clearance, and he's a former law school dean, a husband, a granddad, and American. And he gets delayed if not stopped every time he gets on a plane.
Why? Because Robinson is also one of the estimated one million names now on the terror watch list.
JIM ROBINSON, ATTORNEY: So it seems, for years now, despite my best efforts to get off.
GRIFFIN: Yesterday, Robinson joined the ACLU in Washington to mark what the group calls a ridiculous milestone. A million names the government believes match known terrorists. And according to the ACLU, 20,000 new names like Robinson's are added every month.
ROBINSON: That means there must be about 950 to 75,000 people who don't belong on this list, who are somehow caught in the mire of doing this.
GRIFFIN: What does it mean? It means, because of his name, he can't check in to flights electronically. He can't check bags at the curb, can't check in at one of the new speedy airport kiosks. Every time he travels, he and a million others need to wait in line.
ROBINSON: And see somebody who then has to make a call, and determine that apparently I am not the James Kenneth Robinson who is the cause of my being on the watch list.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you going?
GRIFFIN: I'm going to Chicago this morning.
GRIFFIN: Don't think it can happen to you? It's happening to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are on the watch list.
GRIFFIN: The watch list?
GRIFFIN (on camera): So how did I get on this list? Well, the TSA is adamant it's not even me, even though it is me getting stopped at the airports. The TSA says it's the airline's fault. The airlines say they're just following the list provided to them by the TSA.
And coincidentally, this all began in May, shortly after I began a series of investigative reports critical of the TSA.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Eleven flights now since May 19th. On different airlines, my name pops up, forcing me to go to the counter, show my identification. Sometimes the agent has to make a call before I get my ticket.
ROBINSON: It's a hassle.
GRIFFIN: What does the TSA say? Nothing, at least, nothing on camera. Over the phone, a public affairs worker told me again, I'm not on the watch list. And don't even think that someone in the TSA or anyone else is trying to get even.
VOICE OF CHRISTOPHER WHITE, TSA PUBLIC AFFAIRS: So if there's any thought or shadow of a thought that TSA somehow put you on the watch list because of your reporting, it is absolutely fabricated.
GRIFFIN: Jim Robinson who served two Democratic presidents says he's trying not to think politics is involved, either.
ROBINSON: I don't feel safer because I have to go through this hassle, I can tell you that.
GRIFFIN: The ACLU's technology chief, Barry Steinghardt, says the list is so secretive and yet so shoddily put together, it's hard to tell how it's being used or abused.
BARRY STEINGHARDT, ACLU: The truth is we really don't know how much is bureaucratic ineptness and how much is, you know -- and how much is political retaliation.
GRIFFIN: Even more frustrating than being on it is trying to get off. According to the TSA, you fill out a form online, which I did on May 28th. You then copy personal documents, fill out another form and send them to Homeland Security, which I also did on May 28th. And then, apparently, you wait. Robinson has been waiting now three years.
ROBINSON: On May 2nd, 2005, I filled out all their forms, made a copy of my passport, my driver's license, my voter's registration card, put it in a package, and sent it off to TSA. I never heard back, and it certainly doesn't seem to have done me any good at all.
GRIFFIN: My wait has apparently just begun.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Wow, Drew. Well, I don't know whether it's bureaucratic or whether it's political, it's ridiculous.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BROWN: And this is supposedly an FBI list, so, what's the FBI saying about all this?
GRIFFIN: Well, the FBI says the ACLU made it longer than it is. There is a million names on this list, but a lot of these terrorists have aliases, so the FBI says it's not really a million people on the list. Most of them foreign, most of them living overseas.
The FBI also said, though, though this is an inconvenience to some, it's an inconvenience we have to pay for for an anti-terrorism tool that works. The FBI, the TSA insist because of this list, terrorists are not flying and we are safer in the skies. And those of us on this list just have to put up with it.
BROWN: All right. So Drew, are you who you really say you are? Or is this whole -- this whole CNN job, it's an elaborate ruse?
GRIFFIN: You know, CNN goes over my scripts very thoroughly. And they went over my hiring very thoroughly.
BROWN: We're going to watch you.
GRIFFIN: So I think I am who I am. I'm not sure.
BROWN: All right. Drew Griffin, a great story. Thank you for bringing us that. Appreciate it.
GRIFFIN: Thanks.
BROWN: Coming up in just a moment, Cindy McCain, and why her family's huge beer business is cashing in again. Her money, her company's influence and the politics.
And the controversial cartoon of Michelle and Barack Obama on the cover of the "New Yorker" magazine. Well now, Barack Obama speaks out about it to Larry King, when the ELECTION CENTER returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In just a few minutes, all the money Cindy McCain is making in the beer business, and how it could impact her role if she is the next first lady.
But first, Gary Tuchman is here with "The Briefing" -- Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Campbell.
Tonight, we have an astonishing look inside interrogations at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Newly released videotape shows 16-year-old Omar Khadr lifting his shirt, showing his wounds, and crying for his mother. Investigators say Khadr killed an American soldier with a grenade in Afghanistan six years ago. The blast severely injured Khadr who was captured and detained.
Canadian agents interrogated the teen in a tent (ph) before days and a hidden camera was rolling. Khadr was born in Canada and grew up in Afghanistan. He is still in custody during his legal fight.
A Los Angeles judge told two elderly women they used an altar of greed to sacrifice homeless men. That judge sentenced 77-year old Helen Golay (ph) and 75-year-old Olga Rutterschmidt to life in prison. Prosecutors say they befriended two homeless men and bought multimillion dollar life insurance policies for them. They cashed in after killing the men and staging hit and run accident scenes. The women were convicted in April.
And amazing pictures tonight from the volatile volcano in Hawaii, Kilauea. The red hot lava has been flowing since another eruption on Sunday. The lava flow destroyed a house. While it's dangerous, there is a benefit. More tourists are booking helicopter tours. Kilauea has been active for 25 years.
I was there last year, on the big island of Hawaii. I saw Kilauea. It's amazing. You need to go.
BROWN: Oh, interesting.
TUCHMAN: It's a great sight.
BROWN: All right. We'll check it out.
Gary Tuchman, thanks very much, Gary.
The controversial cartoon on the cover of the "New Yorker" magazine, Barack Obama speaking out about it tonight, and Larry King previews his one-on-one interview.
Also, Cindy McCain's beer distribution empire. Her influential company and the new deal that is giving her reason to say cheers at happy hour. The political red flags, next in the ELECTION CENTER.
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BROWN: So, there could be some political fallout to this week's big deal in the beer industry. The Belgian company InBev is buying Anheuser-Busch for 52 million bucks. Cindy McCain just happens to run one of the biggest Anheuser-Busch distributors in the country.
Beyond what she stands to make from the deal, red flags are already going up about how a McCain presidency would affect his wife's business.
CNN's David Mattingly reports on what is brewing behind the scenes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Fair to say Cindy McCain is not only a wife to Senator John McCain, she is also his meal ticket. Her reported 2006 income of more than $6 million exceeded her husband's earnings 16 times over. That money pays for a wealthy lifestyle of high end condos, an Arizona ranch, flying in a corporate jet, and more.
KEN VOGEL, POLITICO: He wouldn't be able to afford that were it not for her. Politically he is in Congress arguably because her company and her wealth funded his first congressional campaign and has certainly been helpful in subsidizing his presidential campaign.
MATTINGLY: It's a lifestyle built on beer. Cindy McCain is the chairman of one of the largest Anheuser-Busch distributors in the country. A company founded by her father with a value estimated at more than $100 million.
In Congress, Senator McCain has been able to avoid a conflict of interest by staying out of the family business and recusing himself from beer-related issues. But critics of that industry doubt that a President McCain would be able to stay so hands off.
BRUCE LIVINGSTON, MARIN INSTITUTE: It would not be possible. The Hensley Corporation which Cindy McCain is an owner of has lobbied 10 times in the last eight years on various issues that have gone to Congress and have gone to executive branch agencies.
MATTINGLY (on camera): As president, McCain would run a mammoth bureaucracy with regulatory control over alcohol sales, distribution and consumption. The next administration would probably have to deal with issues of beer taxes, labeling, maybe even the politically sensitive international merger just announced involving the giant Anheuser-Busch. These are all issues that could create a conflict because they could have an impact on the McCain family bottom line.
(voice-over): Though she does not run the day-to-day operations, Cindy McCain's Hensley and Company's Web site links to a newsletter, calling for a rollback in the federal beer tax. And this 2005 letter posted on the Internet by "The Los Angeles Times" shows company executive, Andrew McCain, yes, that is the senator's son, lobbying against a federal beer labeling proposal.
(on camera): It wouldn't be the first time a president had to distance himself from his wife's business. Lady Bird Johnson was a top breadwinner in her family, too, owning radio and television stations. All subject to federal regulation.
(voice-over): When LBJ became president, those businesses were put into a blind trust and managed by someone else. Lady Bird couldn't touch them again until she was out of the White House.
CARL SFERRAZZA ANTHONY, HISTORIAN: There's no evidence that during the White House years there was any conflict of interest there.
MATTINGLY: We sent questions to a Hensley spokesman asking what kind of options might be on the table if the chairman of the board becomes the first lady. We didn't get a reply. A spokesman for the McCain campaign says any decisions going forward will be made after John McCain wins the election and takes office, and not before.
David Mattingly, CNN, Atlanta.
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BROWN: While some supporters might raise a glass to Cindy McCain, critics say not so fast. Our panel joins us tonight. From Washington, D.C., Amanda Carpenter is a national political reporter from townhall.com, a Web site featuring conservative points of view; Jamal Simmons, an adviser to the Democratic National Committee; and also with us CNN senior political analyst, Gloria Borger.
Jamal, let me start with you. You see any red flags there?
JAMAL SIMMONS, ADVISER, DEMOCRATIC NATL. CMTE: Of course there are red flags. The real question is not so much about what Cindy McCain does for a living. She can do whatever she wants to do for a living. This is America.
The question is it wasn't that John McCain is going to lead a transparent government, and he's so far, he's not leading a transparent campaign. Here's what I mean.
He hasn't talked about how much he pays, or why he doesn't pay full fare for those airplane flights he flies around that jet. He doesn't talk about what's going to happen to his Cindy McCain if he goes into the White House.
And so the question is, of course he listens to somebody like Phil Gramm who thinks that the economy is all in our heads, or the economic problems are all mental, because with John McCain, he has eight houses. They spend $750,000 on credit cards in one month.
BROWN: Yes.
SIMMONS: And he's flying around the country in his corporate jet. He doesn't -- he's not in touch where most of Americans are.
BROWN: All right.
Let me get back to his previous point, Amanda. The McCain campaign has been somewhat reluctant to release information about his wife's finances. I mean, should she open her books, put it out there. Does the public have a right to know?
AMANDA CARPENTER, TOWNHALL.COM: Look, if she wanted to, I think that would certainly be within her rights. But until John McCain starts to mingle his finances with his wife, to date, right now, he doesn't --
BROWN: But --
CARPENTER: Their finances are separate.
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BROWN: Wait a minute. Wait a minute --
CARPENTER: No, no, no --
BROWN: McCain has used his wife's fortune to help fund his campaign providing a private plane to travel around the country.
CARPENTER: Taking a corporate jet, quite frankly, I would much prefer that he travels in his wife's corporate jet than some other corporation that may be trying to exercise undue influence --
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BROWN: But get back to the question. Does he have the obligation to be open with people about this if you want to be president of the United States?
CARPENTER: Well, we're talking about the fact right now that he's ridden on his wife's corporate jet. I don't see that as a huge issue. But when you say that she's subsidizing the campaign, that means it sounded that she's writing checks to him right now. And that's the area if she was, I would say she would have to open up her finances. But just the fact that he's ridden on his wife's plane is not a huge issue.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Campbell -- Campbell, there is sort of the basic issue though of transparency here because this is sort of the bedrock of John McCain's campaign, which he wants to be open. His wife has only released the first two pages of her 2006 tax returns.
And I remember, in covering the 2004 campaign, when Teresa Heinz Kerry, who was also a very wealthy woman, wealthier than Cindy McCain, did not want to release her taxes, Republicans were complaining about it.
CARPENTER: But that was a different situation because John Kerry borrowed against his wife's worth in order to keep his campaign going. John McCain hasn't made a move like that. And until he does, Cindy McCain has a right to keep her finances --
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BORGER: Well, but --
SIMMONS: Give me one second on this, though.
CARPENTER: And she's already complied and sent a financial disclosure obligation.
BROWN: Jamal, quickly. Go ahead.
SIMMONS: Very quickly. That month where he was spending $750,000 on credit card debts, it was from March 2007 until the beginning of 2008, middle of 2008.
BROWN: All right.
SIMMONS: And that's when they were spending all the money of credit cards. They would not have been able to keep the John McCain campaign alive had he not had this personal wealth.
BROWN: OK, guys, stay with us. We've got a lot more to talk about, but I want to get to something else. Today Larry King talked to Barack Obama and asked him about that magazine cover that depicts the senator and his wife as terrorists.
You're going to hear his answer, and we'll talk about what when we come back.
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BROWN: Senator Barack Obama doesn't sound too worried about that controversial "New Yorker" magazine cover. The cartoon on the front of this week's issue depicts Obama and his wife as Muslim terrorists. Larry King asked him about it during a one-on-one interview for tonight's show. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I know it was the "New Yorker"'s attempt at satire. I don't think they were entirely successful with it. But you know what, it's a cartoon, Larry. And that's why we've got the First Amendment.
And I think the American people are probably spending a little more time worrying about what's happening with the banking system, and the housing market, what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan than a cartoon. So I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it.
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": But didn't it personally sting you?
OBAMA: No, you know -- we've -- one of the things, when you're running for president for almost two years is, you get a pretty thick skin. And, you know, I've seen and heard worse. I do think that, you know, in attempting to satirize something, they probably fueled some misconceptions about me instead.
But you know, that was their editorial judgment, and as I said, ultimately, it's a cartoon. It's not where the American people are spending a lot of their time thinking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Larry King with me right now. Larry, what else did you talk about?
KING: We talked about that, and of course, we talked about Iraq, his differences with Senator McCain, how the vice presidency selection is going along. What he thinks about the financial crisis, and the question about mortgages, et cetera.
It was about 20 minutes and very, very, very interesting. I thought he handled the question about that cartoon very well. He kind of let it roll off him. I think that was probably a smart way to put an end to that story, don't you?
BROWN: Yes. All right. Well, a wide-ranging interview. It will be fascinating. We'll be watching, Larry, tonight. Appreciate it.
And our panel is going to be back to chew this over a little bit, next.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I know it was the "New Yorker"'s attempt at satire. I don't think they were entirely successful with it. But you know what, it's a cartoon, Larry. And that's why we've got the First Amendment. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That's from Senator Barack Obama's one-on-one with Larry King, coming up in just a few minutes.
Back with me now, Amanda Carpenter, of townhall.com, Democratic National Committee adviser, Jamal Simmons, and CNN senior political analyst, Gloria Borger.
And Jamal, let me just get your take on this. Whatever Senator Obama told Larry, his campaign was pretty unhappy. They made that abundantly clear when that "New Yorker" cartoon or the magazine came out.
How much do you think something like this can perpetuate the rumors that have surrounded Obama?
SIMMONS: Well, it's yet to be seen. They had a right to be unhappy. It was a pretty unfortunate article. I think Senator Obama is making the best case out of it that he can. But the reality is this is absolutely not helpful.
Luckily, or I think respectfully, John McCain's campaign also said they thought it was a problem. So this does not help, and I think some people who have, who want to spread false rumors about Barack Obama will have this as an asset.
BROWN: Gloria, I do want to switch gears because we've talked a lot about Barack Obama's speech that he gave to the NAACP, and John McCain is addressing the NAACP tomorrow.
BORGER: Right.
BROWN: A pretty tough crowd for a Republican candidate, but it could also be a real opportunity for him, couldn't it?
BORGER: I think it is, and I give John McCain a lot of credit for going to New Orleans, for going to the NAACP, for saying that he's going to be a president of all the people if he gets elected. I think it sends a good message.
I think politically from his point of view, it also sends a message to those moderate independent voters that John McCain is looking for and he's saying to them, look, I am reaching out to the constituencies that the former administration didn't have a lot of luck with. So I give him credit for doing it. He's going to talk about small business, which is really important to members of the NAACP, about school vouchers, about education. Those are subjects that they can talk about together.
BROWN: Amanda, you know, as Gloria said, McCain made a big deal of saying that he does want to campaign for every vote in every community, not just a typical Republican stronghold. But how realistic is it, do you think? Or how well would you expect him to do among African-Americans realistically? CARPENTER: Well, realistically, he's going to be bringing with him Michael Steele, who's an African-American. He's well-loved in the conservative community, who is great at bridging that gap that sort of exists today. But I expect McCain to talk about the voucher system, which should play very well with this community.
As you know, our public education system is the only one where geography can ultimately determine your educational outcome. And if we kind of free those people and allow them more school choice, I think that will be a very happy message along with issues like merit (ph) --
BROWN: Right. All right, guys.
SIMMONS: Campbell -- Campbell, he's making -- this is pure politics.
BROWN: Yes. Quick, Jamal.
BROWN: This is pure politics.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: But it's good politics.
BROWN: He didn't get -- no, but he didn't go last year and it wasn't for this administration. But he wants to go this year.
BROWN: Running for president. There's nothing wrong with politics, Jamal.
Guys, got to end it there. We're totally out of time, but appreciate it as always. Jamal, Amanda and Gloria, thanks very much.
We're going to be back with a quick look at the headlines right after the break.
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BROWN: "LARRY KING" starting right now.
