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Campbell Brown
McCain Addresses NAACP Convention; U.S. Troops Moving from Iraq to Afghanistan?; House GOP Hands Out Spirit Awards
Aired July 16, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, everybody.
We have got two big stories we're tracking tonight.
First, breaking late this afternoon, Iraq -- the Pentagon says we may actually be able to pull more troops out of Iraq this fall. But it is looking for a way to send those very same troops to Afghanistan. The top U.S. commander in Iraq says that he needs more time to assess the situation.
So, what's going on here? Is the Pentagon now at odds with its top man in Baghdad? We're going to get into details, all about that in just a moment.
Meanwhile, the other big story of the day is race. Despite Barack Obama's historic run for the White House, there's a new poll that finds the racial divide between whites and blacks is not improving all that much in this country.
Then, a little bit later, we're going to look at rule number one for those big-name talkers that the campaigns send out there to speak on behalf of the candidate. Rule number one, stay on message. And sometimes they don't seem to know exactly what the message is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MARK SANFORD (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: I'm drawing a blank, and I hate it when I do that, particularly on television.
But, take, for instance, the contrast on NAFTA. I think that the bigger issue is credibility in where one is coming from on, are they consistent where they come from? John McCain has consistently stood against earmarks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Are surrogates doing us more harm than good? No bias, no bull. This is the ELECTION CENTER.
We begin tonight with John McCain, who today addressed the NAACP, the nation's largest civil rights organization. And he had a tough act to follow, Barack Obama. So, McCain did begin his speech by giving a nod to his opponent, saying that Obama's success should make all Americans proud. But did that win him any points with African- American voters? CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is here with that and that new poll on the racial divide separating America -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.
You know, Campbell, that old adage, the more things change, the more they stay the same? It seems, as a result of this new poll, we can now apply that to the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): John McCain went before the NAACP and recognized the obvious: Barack Obama is making history.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course I would prefer his success not to continue quite as long as he hopes.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCAIN: But it does make you and me proud to know the country I have loved and served all my life, still a work in progress, and always improving.
(APPLAUSE)
CROWLEY: But a "New York Times"/CBS poll shows, despite Obama's already historic run, Americans still see things in black and white -- 59 percent of blacks describe race relations as generally bad in this country. Only 34 percent of whites say that. What's more, only half of black respondents think an Obama presidency would change race relations.
RON WALTERS, AFRICAN-AMERICAN LEADER CENTER: It lends some credence to the fact that, even if Barack Obama is now the nominee of the party or even if he wins the presidency, it's not going to have a profound effect upon race releases in the United States.
CROWLEY: And while Obama battles McCain to become leader of the Western world, the poll also found 64 percent of blacks think whites have a better chance of getting ahead. Just 35 percent of whites thought that.
It goes on, with blacks more likely than whites to see Obama as caring about the problems of people like them and more likely to describe him as patriotic. Whites are more likely to see Obama as a politician who says what he thinks people want to hear.
The truth is, blacks have voted Democratic for decades. No Democratic presidential nominee has won the white vote since the early '70s. These things take time.
WALTERS: You have to look at American culture and the fact that it's been 400 years for these kind of racial attitudes to develop, racial behaviors to materialize. And you're certainly not going to wipe that out with just someone being elected to any office in the United States.
CROWLEY: Making history does not change history.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Candy Crowley back live with me now.
Also joining us is Ed Rollins, Republican strategist, former Huckabee campaign chairman and a CNN contributor, as well as Warren Ballentine. He's a nationally syndicated radio talk show host, as well as an attorney, and he is also we should mention an Obama supporter.
Candy, let me go back to you, because there is one point in the poll where blacks and whites agreed. And it's on the point that the country is ready to elect a black president. But polling can only take you so far. When race is a factor, you always run the risk that people won't tell pollsters the truth. And they know this inside the Obama campaign.
How much do they expect race to play a role in November and what are they doing to try to manage the issue?
CROWLEY: Well, obviously this came up time and time again in the campaign. In some way shape or form, race was a factor, even when we weren't talking about it.
So, they understand this. As we know, all along, Barack Obama has tried to be the candidate that sort of transcends race, transcends party partisanship, that kind of thing, and they're continuing on.
Now, what's interesting and what's happened over time has been some talk about, well, how does he address African-American audiences? Is it different from the way he addresses white audiences? So, there is no way to stop the discussion of race in America at the presidential level or pretty much at any level.
BROWN: Warren, why do you think that black Americans and that white Americans seem to have such a profoundly different view of how this election is shaping up? I mean, both groups do agree on which issues are most important. But on the candidates themselves, there's some pretty big divides.
WARREN BALLENTINE, ATTORNEY AND RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, I think what's happening in this country is that for the first time we're actually having to deal with race, especially when you think about Barack's chance of being the president of the United States.
But I want to touch on something that Candy said about this poll. I think it would -- it would be very interesting to see how many young people were polled. I think race is an issue when you start talking about 45 and up. I think, when you start talking 35 and under, race is an issue, don't get me wrong, but I think it's more acceptable in the younger generation than it is in the older generation.
And I think that's just the way it is right now for both African- Americans and white Americans.
BROWN: That's a good point, Warren.
And, Ed, I want to ask you, there's another striking number in the poll, and that's that 83 percent of blacks have a favorable opinion of Obama, only 31 percent of whites. That's a huge difference. Is it racism or is it something else?
ED ROLLINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I think black Americans have a great deal to be proud of in Barack Obama. I think all of us do. I think the Democratic Party has put forth two candidates that no one ever thought would be nominated before, Hillary Clinton and this fine young man.
I think to a certain extent a lot of white Americans don't know very much about him. And a lot of Americans don't know very much about him. As the campaign moves on, we will see some of those numbers change dramatically I think. And I think to a certain extent, there's certain issues that you can differ between he and McCain, but as far as decent human beings and people who obviously have great leadership abilities, you can't diminish this man in any way, shape or form.
BROWN: But what does it say to you, Ed, too, that only 5 percent of blacks, according to the poll, have a favorable opinion of John McCain, 5 percent? I mean, you're going to have people who say, listen, African-Americans are the most reliable Democrats out there, and you would expect them to have a lower opinion of John McCain. But 5 percent, it's a pretty surprising number, don't you think?
ROLLINS: It's a sad number in the sense that I think many African-Americans share some of the values of Republicans. Some don't, obviously. And, historically, that vote has always been very low, below 10 percent in most cases.
I think McCain, as he did today, and as he will in the course of his campaign and the Republican Party, as it has to, has to reach out to the community and basically say, we understand your problems. You may not always vote for us. You may never vote for us. But, at the same time, you're all Americans and we have to basically try and help you and help us resolve these dilemmas that we face in America.
BROWN: All right, Candy, Ed, and Warren, stay with me. There's a lot more to this story, including why John McCain's warm reception at the NAACP may not win him any votes.
Also ahead, American troops on the move, being shifted from Iraq to Afghanistan, could it happen as early as the fall? And talk about going off message. We're going to hear what happens when candidates' stand-ins get it very wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In his speech to the NAACP today, John McCain told a moving story about his time as a North Vietnamese prisoner of war when his captors gave him the news of Martin Luther King's death. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: The enemy had correctly calculated that the news of Dr. King's death would deeply wound morale. Yet, how differently it all turned out. The cause of Dr. King was bigger than any one man. It could not be stopped by force of violence.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: To many it seems McCain said all the right things today. But will that translate into votes come November?
Back to talk about that, Ed Rollins, Warren Ballentine, and Candy Crowley.
And, Ed, McCain did get this very warm reception at the meeting today, or convention, but he probably didn't win many votes. Was the speech still a worthwhile campaign stop for him?
ROLLINS: Absolutely worthwhile.
The NAACP is one of the most important groups in America. It has been for a long, long time. It has had great accomplishments. Every Republican presidential candidate needs to go to a group like this and talk about their views of America.
And I think, to a certain extent, saying nice things about Obama, as he did, laying out exactly who he is, not pandering in any way, shape or forge to the crowd basically helps him long term show that he's running for president of all Americans, and I think was very beneficial.
I don't think he gets any votes out of it, but that's not the reason you go there.
BROWN: Warren, black voters have historically gone Democratic -- 88 percent voted for John Kerry. Is that almost blind allegiance to the Democratic Party a mistake?
BALLENTINE: Yes, it is.
I mean, honestly, I'm an independent. And I tell my listeners they should be independents, because, honestly, I think the Democrats have taken the black vote to for granted, to a certain degree. I think the Republicans are failing to have an opportunity to come in and get the black vote because they think they can't have any headway in the black community.
Now, I will disagree with what Ed said just a little bit. I think McCain was pandering to the audience just a bit, because, let's face it. He didn't vote for the Dr. King holiday, number one. I think it was a good move for him to go and speak to the NAACP. It's something that George Bush didn't do for almost six years. And I think it helps him with white moderate Democrats, because it shows that he is interested in being the president of all Americans. Now, will he get any votes out of that? I highly doubt it. But I would like to see more African-American really look at the issues, not just be loyal to the Democratic Party, because I take my city, for example, that I was born and raised in. It's been Democratic my whole life.
And that's Chicago. Our school systems are poor. Crime is up. And, honestly, I think it's time that we get courted by both parties, not just the Democrats, but the Republicans as well. That's why we should be independents.
BROWN: Candy, last August, Obama said, and I'm quoting here, that "I guarantee you African-American turnout, if I'm the nominee, goes up 30 percent around the country, at a minimum."
Is this realistic or campaign bluster?
CROWLEY: Well, fortunately, I'm not a pollster, but I do talk to some of them. And everyone that I have talked to think that that's a little ambitious.
They talk more around the 20 percent range. But, you know, when we started out this campaign, the crowds surprised us in the beginning. They kind of continued to surprise us. So, I think it's an unknown. A lot can happen in this campaign. Barack Obama already being beaten up as just another politician, that may suppress some of that youth vote that Warren was talking about.
So, there's so many dynamics that can happen. Now, obviously, the black community is overwhelmingly going to vote for Obama. But you're right. This -- particularly in the South, it matters how many new voters come out. And I just think that's an unknown at this point. But a lot of people I talked to think he's a little ambitious when he adds that number, that they look for maybe 20 percent at best.
(CROSSTALK)
BALLENTINE: Campbell, can I...
BROWN: Yes, quickly, Warren.
BALLENTINE: I want to just say this.
I think black talk radio is making a huge difference for Barack Obama. I'm on my way to Atlanta right now to do a voter registration drive.
BROWN: Right.
BALLENTINE: In North Carolina, I'm doing the same thing. And there's of black talk show radio hosts that are doing this. And I think it may surprise people, just like he surprised people with this primary.
BROWN: Right. We got to end it there.
Ed, Warren, and Candy, appreciate it. Thanks, guys.
ROLLINS: Thank you. Take care, Campbell.
BALLENTINE: Thank you.
BROWN: Coming up: Does this sound like winding down, the Pentagon's fresh new plan to shift troops out of Iraq and into Afghanistan?
Then, later, going off message, way off message. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Are there any significant economic differences between what the Bush administration has put forward, over these many years, as opposed to, now, what John McCain supports?
SANFORD: Yes. I mean, for instance, take, you know -- take, for instance, the issue of -- I'm drawing a blank, and I hate it when I do that, particularly on television.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The surrogate bloopers that give candidates headaches, we have got that story when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We turn now to an important about-face or so it seems in the strategy for the war on terrorism.
You just saw the current troop numbers. But, this afternoon, top Pentagon officials announced that they expect to recommend more U.S. troop reductions from Iraq this fall.
But those same officials, Defense Secretary Bill Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen, the Joint Chiefs chairman, also say that they're trying to find ways to increase troops in Afghanistan.
For more now on what's going on and why, I'm joined from London by senior international correspondent Nic Robertson, who has just returned from Afghanistan. And here with me in the ELECTION CENTER is "TIME" magazine's world editor, Bobby Ghosh. He's "TIME"'s former Baghdad bureau chief.
Welcome to you both.
By the way, "TIME"'s upcoming issue we should mention includes pieces about Afghanistan written by both presidential candidates. And it hits newsstands this Friday.
Nic, June, as we know, has been the deadliest month for U.S. troops since the beginning of the war in Afghanistan. No question, you have said it yourself, that troops are spread too thin there. Can more an increase in troops, make a real difference?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It can make a difference, but it makes a difference slowly. We were just embedded with Marines in the south of Afghanistan in Helmand, 2,500 Marines to take an area roughly the size, two times the size of Washington, D.C., took them a month-long fight to do it. And now they have got to patrol that same area because the Afghan army and Afghan police aren't strong enough to hold it.
So, you have that -- it's a double-edged sword. The more troops you put in, they also get consumed in holding the ground that they have taken. Afghanistan, a huge country, almost as big as the state of Texas, so it requires a lot of troops. In some of the places where we saw the attack over the weekend, you need a lot of troops, because it's very, very mountainous.
And to control the terrain, to put a patrol out in the bottom of the valley, you need to control the sides of the valleys and the mountaintops as well.
One of the longer-term problems is that the Taliban as well are getting more effective about rallying local support when you have more troops on the ground. The more we have seen troops spread around Afghanistan, the more we have seen Taliban pop up. And to combat that, you need a strong political leadership in Kabul, Campbell.
BROWN: Bobby, as of late, both candidates have been talking a lot about Afghanistan, and they both have essays as we mentioned in your magazine laying out their strategies. Do either of them get it right?
BOBBY GHOSH, WORLD EDITOR, "TIME": I think they're both reacting to the news, Campbell. They're reacting to the news of increased violence, especially last week when nine American soldiers were killed.
And they're also both suggesting piecemeal measures. Let's send 5,000 more troops or 15,000 more troops. They're not addressing the central question, can this war be won, and what will it take to be won? And my suspicion is that the answer to that is much, much, much larger numbers, numbers that the United States doesn't even have.
(CROSSTALK)
GHOSH: Exactly right.
What does it take to defeat Taliban in their own turf, especially since there's this long border with Pakistan from which they're able to -- the Taliban is able to straddle that border. It is almost impossible to defend that border.
What numbers of American or Western soldiers are you going to require to defend that? And the answer is numbers that the United States military, in fact, NATO military, does not have.
BROWN: And, Nic, Bobby mentioned Pakistan. The big problem, al Qaeda and Taliban finding safe haven on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. What can the U.S. do about it? Is the government in Afghanistan in many ways contributing to this problem?
ROBERTSON: They are in some ways. I mean, look, the Afghan government is very weak on corruption, weak on narco corruption, big on blaming Pakistan.
There were these tri-flag border meetings between NATO, U.S. troops with Afghan and Pakistan troops on the border. Those have fallen away. So, there isn't really a willingness on the Afghan side and it seems on the Pakistan side to have a meeting of armies and minds along the border, which is what it takes to control the border. So, that's not happening.
And Bobby has a very strong point. You can put in a very, very large number of troops and still not win the situation on the ground. The Russian model, when the Russians were there, the Soviet Union was there a couple of decades ago, they proved that.
Numbers aren't going to win it on the ground. So, you do need another strategy.
And, right now, diplomats in Kabul, U.S. diplomats in Kabul, are struggling to look with who they can partner on the Pakistan side. The government there is weak. The army there isn't particularly strong, doesn't want to take a leadership role at the moment, it appears. Both the army and the government in Pakistan have made deals with the radicals. They haven't borne any fruit so far, so it's a very weak position in Pakistan, too.
BROWN: And, guys, we have to end it there.
But to Nic and to Bobby, appreciate your time tonight. Thanks much.
There's a lot of important news we're getting to tonight. It turns out that things can get worse apparently for the failed bank IndyMac. We're going to tell you how coming up next.
And, then, later, some of life's most embarrassing moments, especially if you're a political surrogate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead tonight: some food for thought in tonight's "Stagecraft."
Sometimes a sandwich is not just a sandwich.
But, first, Gary Tuchman has tonight's briefing.
Hey, Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Campbell.
Nine thousand fugitives are in custody after a major sweep by federal agents and local police nationwide. The roundup, called Operation FALCON, started a few weeks ago. The results were announced today. Investigators targeted suspects sex offenders and violent criminals.
CNN has learned the FBI is now investigating one of the biggest bank busts in American history. Last week, regulators took over IndyMac bank. In Southern California, customers lined up to cash out. Now, the feds want to know if bankers broke laws by signing off on risky mortgages.
Colombia's president admits it was a mistake to use a red cross during the hostage rescue operation two weeks ago. As CNN reported, unpublished pictures show a Colombian intelligence officer wearing a Red Cross bib. He was sent to free hostages from rebels. Because the Red Cross is neutral, it's against international law to use the logo to end conflicts.
And kids are teed off at the White House tonight. It's the annual T-ball all-star game on the South Lawn. Players between the ages of 4 and 7 come from all over the country. It's a Bush White House tradition.
And the president gives each player an autographed ball.
And, as you know, Campbell, the president's a former baseball man. Before he was president, before he was governor of Texas, he was the owner of the Texas Rangers baseball team.
BROWN: Yes. I know, out there scouting new talent, maybe?
TUCHMAN: That's what it is, 4-to-7-year-olds.
BROWN: Because he's going to be out of a job soon, so who knows.
All right, Gary Tuchman for us tonight.
Our next stop is Capitol Hill, where Republican lawmakers are handing out awards to each other. Why are they so proud of themselves? You have got to see this for yourselves.
And then later, some political stagecraft good enough to eat.
Plus, the hazards of asking somebody to be your surrogate. They don't always get the message right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: No doubt there is plenty of hot air on Capitol Hill. A whole lot of talk, very little action. Certainly not on gas prices.
So why are a group of House Republicans handing out awards to each other?
CNN's Joe Johns explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gas prices creeping higher. The public, mad as hell and growing anger that the folks on Capitol Hill aren't doing squat to help. And, yet, some Republican Congress members are handing out awards to each other.
They're calling them spirit awards. Check them out. A shiny oil can trophy.
Congressman John Peterson won one for the stirring speech on how offshore oil rigs are a blessing for fishermen and the little fishes too.
REP. JOHN PETERSON (R), PENNSYLVANIA: It's the most environmentally sensitive place to produce energy. In most places, the fisheries are better. They like the platforms. They like the places to hide. The fishermen love them being there because it's where the best fishing is.
JOHNS: And this in which one congressman literally took a page from the bible while talking about drilling for oil.
REP. PHIL GINGRY (R), GEORGIA: It's, like, Moses said to Pharaoh, let my people go. Moses wouldn't do it. He wouldn't do it. He promised time after time.
He kept reneging even though his own people were suffering tremendously. I don't know what he was betting on back there many thousands of years ago, but he was wrong.
JOHNS: Congressman Lynn Westmoreland, another lucky award winner, keeps his on his desk.
REP. LYNN WESTMORELAND (R), GEORGIA: I'll take anything they give me, but my goal is to continue to get the message out. And maybe one day I'll win a barrel.
JOHNS: Is that your next goal?
WESTMORELAND: Yes, I'm going to move up from the cans to the barrel.
JOHNS: Congresswoman Kay Granger organized the awards.
REP. KAY GRANGER (R), TEXAS: It's tongue in cheek in that the award that we're giving. I mean, this is not -- this is not a real costly thing. We got it off the Internet, but it's very serious talk about the issue.
We're trying to put enough pressure on the Democrat leadership, on Nancy Pelosi, to say, yes, at least give us a vote. And we need additional drilling which we could be doing today and refineries. And so, this is a good way to make that happen.
JOHNS: Seriously, is this the best Congress can do?
(on camera): Why don't you all give awards for speeches on the House floor?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS (voice-over): Democratic Congressman Jim McDermott, who's given a few fire-breathing speeches of his own, thinks it's well, pretty dumb.
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: I don't make fun of the floor.
JOHNS (on camera): So you think it's a dumb idea to give out awards?
MCDERMOTT: Yes, I do. It's like a college -- they're acting like it's a college fraternity where you just kind of joke around and give out oil cans or whatever the hell they're doing. To me, that's absolutely ridiculous.
JOHNS (voice-over): Of course, if people gave out awards for ridiculous, we're sure the lucky nominees would be quite a bipartisan group.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Joe Johns with me now.
Joe, are they going to keep on giving out these spirit awards?
JOHNS: Sure. They say it's helping to get their message out about the need to drill for more oil. And they're going to keep giving the awards out because the bottom line is, when you're a Republican, you've had your power stripped from you, how are you going to get your message out? You're going to give a lot of speeches and hope people pick it up on TV.
BROWN: Joe Johns for us tonight. Joe, thanks.
Now, look who Barack Obama brought to today's campaign stop in Indiana. Not one, but two possible running mates. Former U.S. Senator Sam Nunn of Georgia, and Indiana's current U.S. senator, Evan Bayh. So what about the veepstakes, guys?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM NUNN (D), FORMER U.S. SENATOR: It's always nice to have your name mentioned. It's an honor. But I have no expectations of being offered any office. I'm not in any way sitting on the edge of the chair, ready to go back into government.
SEN. EVAN BAYH (D), INDIANA: I think any questions about the vice presidential thing are understandable and it's good for my ego, but I should probably let Senator Obama and his campaign address those kind of questions.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: So if you think you know who's going to get the vice presidential nod, well, go to CNN.com/electioncenter and click on the "veepstakes" link. We have set up a game that works a lot like the stock market. You can predict a winner and check the political fortunes of every possible running mate.
For the Democrats, Senators Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden are the top choices right now. But look who is moving on up. Bayh and Nunn are now numbers three and four.
For the Republican, Mitt Romney is the current leader, followed by Florida Governor Charlie Crist. That one not changing much.
Again, to make your own picks on our veepstakes game, log on to CNN.com/electioncenter.
The candidates say a lot. They also eat a lot. Well, next, the politics of chowing down. A feeding frenzy of pure stagecraft.
And then later, JibJab's brand-new political spoof. You're going to want to see this.
Also, what happens when the candidate's political pals stray off course? It does make for some pretty awkward moments. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: That is Barack Obama visiting an Italian market while campaigning in Pennsylvania during the spring. Food and drink had been vital parts of U.S. political stagecraft from the very beginning. George Washington bought rum for voters.
Well, Erica Hill is here with some more modern examples of edible stagecraft.
So Erica, John McCain had a big fund-raising dinner at St. Louis yesterday, but it was all about dessert, wasn't it?
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really was about the dessert. As you mentioned, from the big spenders at that dinner, Campbell, to a big treat for the senator.
You're looking here at Senator McCain. There he is. He's arriving at a place called Ted Drewes. This is a local institution, a custard shop in St. Louis on historic Route 66, been there since 1941.
Plenty of kids and families on hand. A summer night. He doesn't want something cold.
McCain ordered a chocolate concrete. I had to look this up but no idea what it was. It's a super thick blended frozen custard served with a spoon and a straw. If you turn it upside down it doesn't move. It's a house specialty.
The stop, though, I should say, Campbell, wasn't all sweet. And it turns out it may not have really been all about business either. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Bush says the banking system is sound.
MCCAIN: We're having a lot of fun here today and tonight, and we're going to be with the media tomorrow for sure, OK. Thank you.
Yes. Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like you to bring our troops home from Iraq, sir.
MCCAIN: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Quickly, now.
MCCAIN: We will bring them home with honor and victory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Quickly, please.
MCCAIN: You can count on it with honor and victory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Too many dying, sir.
MCCAIN: You're right, and not in defeat. That's right. Yes, that's right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, we need to bring them home now, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Whoa, Erica, pretty tough crowd there.
HILL: Yes.
BROWN: Let's do go back to the food, though. You know, candidates know one thing. You are what you eat and by chowing down on local delicacies, they do use that to try to show they're just regular guys.
HILL: Absolutely. That is the goal of this type of stagecraft. You may remember Bill Clinton and his Big Mac addiction? Probably went over. More than one American with his weakness for fast food.
As for Barack Obama, you know, he's a healthy eating kind of guy. But he's on the campaign trail. So we've seen plenty of pictures of him stuffing his face -- look at this -- french fries, hot dogs, you name it. All kinds of fried foods for months.
It turns out, though, that type of road show could be coming to an end because this year's Democratic Convention, there's going to be a whole lot of stagecraft on the menu, lean and green in '08. The goal in Denver is that half of every meal or plate be fruits and vegetables, no fried items. And also, 70 percent of the foods offered must be organic or locally grown ingredients, Campbell.
BROWN: No fried food? Ooh, I don't want to go.
OK. That idea though isn't going to help Barack Obama sort of shrug off this image as being an elitist, because we do know when it comes to stagecraft or the stage craft of food, that can be the kiss of death.
HILL: Yes, it can be a one prime example. You may remember the flak John Kerry got when he ordered a Philly cheese steak with Swiss cheese.
Look, every Philadelphian and plenty of other people around the country know the only way you go here is whiz, as in Cheese Whiz. So opting for Swiss really didn't help his reputation as an out-of-touch elitist, which reminds me, of course, that the number one stagecraft rule, Campbell, you must know your audience.
BROWN: Absolutely. Erica Hill for us tonight. Erica, thanks.
"LARRY KING LIVE" coming up. And he's got some big exclusives tonight.
Larry, who's joining you?
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Campbell, we got a great guest. But first, we're going to talk about airlines on the brink. The high cost of oil has had a big impact on them, and you if you want to fly.
Our travelers being nickeled and dimed at every turn. And is your safety in the sky at risk in order to save money? We're on top of that tonight.
And then, the incredible Venus Williams. Her first primetime interview since winning Wimbledon again, a five-time ladies champion. We talk about that and a lot more on "LARRY KING LIVE," next.
BROWN: All right, Larry, we'll see you shortly.
Coming up in just a moment, what John McCain meant to say about gays and lesbians wanting to adopt children. Plus, political pals who flub while stumping for their favorite candidate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), OBAMA SURROGATE: He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Ooh, more surrogate bloopers and blunders and how well- intentioned friends can be a candidate's worst enemy. Right here in the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: John McCain may be in charge of the Straight Talk Express, but there are some things he really does not want to talk about. When it comes to the subjects dear to the hearts of conservatives, he sometimes seems to just go off message. So why is that?
Joining me now to talk about it, Tara Wall, deputy editorial page editor of "The Washington Times" and former senior adviser to the Republican National Committee. "New York Observer" columnist, Steve Kornacki, with me here in New York, and CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger.
And Tara, what we're talking about here, what brought us to the subject, the interview in "The New York Times" on Sunday that McCain was asked about gay couples and their right to adopt. And let's listen to his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: I think that we've proven that both parents are important in the success of a family. So, no, I don't believe in gay adoption.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: He got a lot of heat from that. And then yesterday, his campaign revised his comments saying that "his position on gay adoption is that it is a state issue. He was not endorsing any federal legislation."
I mean, Tara, you are a conservative. And a lot of conservatives, they don't like answers like this. They want him to be very black and white and clear on these issues, don't they?
TARA WALL, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": That's right. They want -- well, they want him to, you know, state a position and stick to it. I mean, that was one of the, you know, reasons George Bush was so popular. You knew where he stood on issues.
And I think in this case, you know, there was a lot of awry because, you know, he said what he said and quite frankly I think he actually believes what he said the first time. I think his campaign and his advisers got around him and said, hey, guess what, you know, there are some moderates out there we're trying to court and, you know, the independents are shifting to our side now. You need to tamp it down a bit and revise this.
So there's probably some of that and he's now trying to sort of have it both ways. You know, it's like that argument of I'm for abstinence but if you happen to have sex, you know. So I think he is trying to have it both ways in this case. But I do believe he believes what he actually said the first time.
BROWN: Right. WALL: He got, you know, and rightfully -- you know, look, conservatives want to know this is why he's having problems with conservatives. They want to know where he stands on these very critical social issues. There's more to social issues.
BROWN: Yes.
WALL: But social issues do matter.
BROWN: And Steve, it is on social issues where he does seem to be fumbling. This isn't the first time. He was asked about Viagra and birth control pills, and whether or not they should both be covered by insurance. And he hemmed and he hawed. And he's shied away from talking about his faith altogether and how that might inform his views. Why do you think he's so uncomfortable with this?
STEVE KORNACKI, "NEW YORK OBSERVER": Well, two things. One, John McCain, his history in politics has never been about social issues. It's never been about cultural issues. It's not why he got into politics. It's not anything for him I think he ever really cared about.
You had that clip last week where he got in trouble because he hemmed and hawed about birth control and Viagra. And then, you know, it turned out that Planned Parenthood came out and basically said, well, hey, if you want to look at the actual votes in the senate, here's how he's voted. He's always voted against it.
I guarantee you, John McCain -- you know, before each of those votes had no idea they were coming up. Somebody on the staff, one of his fellow senators told him, hey, yes, you're voting yes. You're voting no on this. And that was it. He didn't get into politics to care about this stuff, but he's got to make a decision here.
BROWN: Right.
KORNACKI: It's time to stop worrying about the conservative base. You know what? You can't win an election like he did in 2004 by relying on the conservative base.
BROWN: Well, Gloria, that's my question. Is it time for him to stop appealing to conservatives?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No. In fact, he's got to make sure that he's got the conservative base there for him, that they don't desert him. So he's walking this very fine line.
And what he did is he kind of retreated. The way a lot of folks do when they don't know what to do about a social issue, they say, let's leave it up to the states.
I mean, remember, Dick Cheney. He has a gay daughter and he was asked about gay marriage and he said, I'm opposed, but I believe it should be left up to the states. That's exactly what McCain's doing.
BROWN: Right. WALL: And McCain has actually recouped his support among conservatives. That number has bumped out gradually. He is starting to regain --
KORNACKI: That's because they don't like Barack Obama and they're not going to like Barack Obama in November.
BROWN: OK.
KORNACKI: So it's time to look at independents if you're John McCain.
BROWN: Got to take a quick break, guys, but you're all sticking around. We're going to be back with every candidate's nightmare, the surrogates with foot and mouth disease.
And then, have you seen this? The jokesters at JibJab taking another swipe at the White House wannabes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSIC: So tired of divisive exchange. And I got one on two things to say about change. Like the change we must change to the change we hold dear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: You think one of the easiest jobs in politics is that of being a surrogate. The campaign tells you what to say, sends you out on the trail. All you have to do is stay on message, right? Well, easier said than done.
Here's Jessica Yellin with our blooper reel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're meant to vouch for the candidate.
SEN. LINDSAY GRAHAM (R), NORTH CAROLINA: There has never been a better commander in chief candidate than John McCain.
YELLIN: Sell the campaign line in an ever expanding universe of political photo ops and TV smackdowns. They are campaign surrogates. And this year, we're learning sometimes they do more harm than good.
We've seen surrogates go off the reservation. Like John McCain's economic adviser Phil Gramm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FMR. SEN. PHIL GRAMM (R), FMR. MCCAIN ADVISER: We've sort of become a nation of whiners.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: A nation of whiners? Not helpful. It threw McCain off message and McCain threw Gramm under the bus.
MCCAIN: Phil Gramm does not speak for me. I speak for me.
YELLIN: Samantha Power was one of Barack Obama's top foreign policy advisers. Until she told the BBC a president Obama might not get troops out of Iraq in 16 months after all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA POWER, FMR. OBAMA FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: At the height of ideology, you know, to sort of say, well, I said it, therefore I'm going to impose it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: That was news to the candidate. Power also called Senator Hillary Clinton a monster. That was the final surrogate straw and she resigned.
Then, there's the cringe factor. McCain surrogate, former CEO Carly Fiorina, complained about health care plans that pay for men's Viagra but not women's birth control. That created quite the awkward moment for McCain when he was asked his views on that subject.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: I don't know enough about it to give you an informed answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: General Wesley Clark went where no Obama supporter is allowed to go. John McCain's military record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLARK: I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Oh, dear. The Obama campaign denounced the comments. But still, the controversy stole the headlines.
Sometimes on the spot surrogates can't find the right words, like Republican South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford, asked to name a single policy difference between McCain and President Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANFORD: Take, for instance, the issue of, uh, of, uh -- I'm drawing a blank and I hate it when I do that, particularly on television. (END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Or Obama Texas supporter, State Senator Kirk Watson, on "Hardball."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you name anything he's accomplished as a congressman?
SEN. KIRK WATSON (D), TEXAS: No, I'm not going to be able to do that, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: Not good. As Election Day approaches, expect to see more surrogates get the old heave-ho.
ROGER SIMON, CHIEF POLITICAL COLUMNIST, POLITICO: I think the campaigns are going to decide, you know, it's just easier to run another TV commercial than send a surrogate out on the stump.
YELLIN: Of course, certain surrogates are here to stay. They can't be thrown under the bus, no matter how much controversy they kick up.
Jessica Yellin, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So are surrogates really an endangered species, or are they doing more harm than good? Back with me now, Steve Kornacki, Tara Wall and Gloria Borger.
Steve, you saw all of her examples. What do you think is the most damaging?
KORNACKI: I think the Mark Sanford one. The question is --
BROWN: It's painful to watch.
KORNACKI: It's damaging to who though? Because there is a value to the surrogates for the campaigns beyond just sort of convincing voters right now, and that is, this is a highly public tryout for a lot of potential vice presidential candidates.
BROWN: That's an excellent point.
KORNACKI: Because you're getting the kind of exposure you're going to get as a vice presidential candidate. Now John McCain knows not to pick Mark Sanford.
BROWN: Right.
KORNACKI: Now Barack Obama knows not to pick Wesley Clark. So there's some value there to them. BROWN: Tara, one of the most memorable moments in her piece, John McCain and Viagra. He's asked whether it's fair that some insurance companies don't cover birth control for women but do cover Viagra for men. And he just couldn't answer the question. He still hasn't frankly. And now, Planned Parenthood is turning this into a TV commercial. How does he put this fire out?
WALL: Uh -- oh, sorry. Just kidding. You know, look, I blame multitasking really. And, quite frankly, look, you know, you almost have to, you know, give them a little -- give them a little, you know, ease up on a little bit on that one.
I think, first of all, there are so many things probably going through his mind between Viagra and commercials and they are now running the commercials. Viagra is not birth control. It's separate from that.
He was thinking about insurance. He was thinking about what Carly Fiorina said. So, you know, I don't think that was the most egregious.
She's actually been a pretty good surrogate overall for him. She just needs to do what most surrogates are supposed to do. That is articulate, communicate the message consistently and stay with the talking points.
BROWN: And Gloria, I know you've actually given this a lot of thought. In fact, you wrote a column on the perils of being a surrogate.
BORGER: Yes.
BROWN: I want you to give sort of all the would-be surrogates out there some advice, which topics off limits. What's on your list of do's and don'ts?
BORGER: Off limits is anything that you're not 100 percent sure of where the candidate stands. If you're not, just say, you know what, that's not in my portfolio.
And also, remember, this campaign is not about you. It's about the candidate. It's not about you getting off a clever line.
WALL: Yes.
BORGER: It's not about raising an issue on your own. You know, some of these surrogates -- by the way, Campbell, they operate at different levels. Some of them are very close in. Some of them want to be vice president. Some of them just want to be on TV.
So, you know, we have to understand where they're each coming from. But they have to remember that this is a campaign about somebody else.
WALL: Yes.
BORGER: And so when in doubt, keep your mouth shut.
(CROSSTALK)
WALL: And most of them are powerhouses in their own right.
BROWN: Right.
WALL: And so, I think they forget that they're not, you know, on Wall Street --
BORGER: That's ego.
KORNACKI: The next time -- the next time the average voter complains though that politics is too boring and too unexciting and too predictable, just keep this conversation in mind, because anybody who says anything interesting gets punished. The best advice -- it's good advice --
BROWN: Be boring.
KORNACKI: But the best advice -- the best advice is to be boring and stay on the script. That's a bad lesson.
BROWN: Quickly, Gloria.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: And get ready to get thrown under the bus if you make a mistake.
WALL: That's right. That's right. At any given moment.
BORGER: You're done, you're done.
BROWN: All right, guys, we have to end it there. But Steve, Tara and Gloria, as always, thanks. Appreciate it.
WALL: You bet.
BROWN: Coming up, Internet animators turned politicians into some real characters. The new JibJab spoof coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSIC: Spend billions of dollars to make our points clear to get you to step up and cast your vote here. Then we spin you around and poke you in the rear. Oh, it's time for some campaigning. Yes, it's time for some campaigning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Since 2004, the guys at the animation Web site JibJab have been making some pretty funny videos, political videos. And today, they unveiled their latest opus. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MUSIC: Citizens gather from both far and near for a ritual practiced every four years. When we promise you anything you want to hear to win the crown of king. We spend billions of dollars to make our points clear to get you to step up and cast your vote here. Then we spin you around and poke you in the rear. Oh, it's time for some campaigning. Yes, it's time for some campaigning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: That is it from the ELECTION CENTER.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.
