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Campbell Brown
Obama Defends Anti-Surge Position; Hurricane Dolly Threatens Texas
Aired July 22, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, everybody.
Barack Obama and John McCain are in a bitter stand off thousands of miles apart. Can anybody fairly say that the troop surge in Iraq was a mistake? Well, Obama was against the surge from the very start, and he says that he still hasn't changed his mind, even after he toured the war-torn country with the top commander, General David Petraeus.
He and Petraeus are at odds over his timetable for withdrawing U.S. forces. Well, today in Jordan, Obama stood his ground, saying -- and I'm quoting now -- "My job as a candidate for president and a potential commander in chief extends beyond Iraq."
Back here at home, John McCain seized on this, hammering as Obama at a town hall meeting in Obama, saying Obama would rather win a campaign than win a war.
So, who's right on the surge and on timetables? Those are the questions that we will be asking tonight, no bias, no bull. You're in the ELECTION CENTER.
But, first, Barack Obama is in Israel tonight. He arrived shortly after what appears to be a terrorist attack. A Palestinian tractor driver ran wild on a Jerusalem street not far from where Obama is staying, ramming a bus, overturning a car, and injuring five people before being shot dead.
Obama is expected to meet with Israeli and Palestinian leaders tomorrow, after promising to make Middle East peace a top priority if he is elected. But today he found himself defending his position against the surge in Iraq.
And Candy Crowley is traveling with Obama. She has the latest on the senator's tightrope walk on Iraq now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, Barack Obama has finished up the Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq portion of this trip. He says he saw things on the ground in all those countries that support his policy proposals for the region, though he admits, there were quiet voices of dissent.
(voice-over): Barack Obama left Iraq as he went into it, convinced that a 16-month timetable for withdrawing U.S. combat troops is doable. Not everyone is on board, including someone who told him so, Obama's chopper companion, General David Petraeus, commander of coalition forces.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that his concern has to do with wanting to retain as much flexibility as possible.
CROWLEY: Obama says it's not a matter of ignoring military brass on the ground, but as commander in chief, he would be prepared to overrule it.
OBAMA: I'm factoring in their advice, but placing it in this broader strategic framework that -- that's required.
CROWLEY: In addition to resistance from Petraeus, Obama also admitted to some trepidation from tribal leaders he meant with in Sunni-controlled Anbar Province.
OBAMA: It is true that some of the tribal leaders, as well as the local governor in Anbar, expressed concerns about a potential precipitous drawdown of U.S. troops, which is why I haven't proposed a precipitous drawdown. What I have proposed is a steady, deliberate drawdown over the course of 16 months.
CROWLEY: Obama and his two fellow senators on the Iraq trip agreed that military and political progress has been made since the surge began. But Obama, hit repeatedly by McCain for opposing the surge, balked at calling it a success.
OBAMA: I believe that the situation in Iraq is more secure than it was a year and a half ago. I think that the definition of success depends on how you look at it.
CROWLEY: Obama's first post-Iraq news conference was held on a mountaintop against a backdrop of Amman, Jordan, where he met and dined with King Abdullah, as he will meet with Israeli, Palestinian and European leaders. It's a trip designed to shine up his foreign policy credibility back home, a presidential-style agenda, though Obama has to be careful not to act as though he's already President. This is tricky.
OBAMA: There are a range of factors that I have to take into account as a commander in chief, or a potential commander in chief.
CROWLEY: Obama brushed aside questions about McCain's criticism of him, hoping that will make the trip seem less like a campaign and more like what his political advisers insist it is, a discussion of important issues.
Still, Obama has a campaign camera in tow. They are considering using footage that is shot here for future ads.
OBAMA: Thank you very much, everybody.
CROWLEY (on camera): From here, Obama flew to Israel for what is arguably the trickiest part of this journey for Obama. He has, in the past, said things along the campaign trail that have offended both the Palestinians and the Israelis -- Campbell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Candy Crowley for us in Amman, Jordan, tonight -- Candy, thanks.
While Barack Obama is busy in the Middle East, John McCain is staking his claim on the issue that could make or break his campaign.
And listen to what he told a town hall meeting. This was today in New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, you might recall that Senator Obama, my opponent, said the surge would not succeed, that he wanted us out. If he would have had his way, we would have been out last March. We would have never done the surge. We would never have succeeded and we would have had defeat.
And, my friends, that would have been a catastrophe for the United States of America. He was wrong then. He's wrong now. And he's still failing to acknowledge...
(APPLAUSE)
MCCAIN: He still fails to acknowledge that the surge succeeded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, that is our question tonight. Who is right on the surge?
And here with me in New York, I have got George Packer. He's the reporter and staff writer at "The New Yorker," also the author of "The Assassin's Gate: America in Iraq." In Washington, Hilary Rosen, political director of "The Huffington Post," who is an Obama supporter, and, in Portland, Oregon, Lars Larson, Westwood One radio talk show host.
Welcome to everybody.
Hilary, I'm going to start with you tonight.
Barack Obama today again defending his position that even in hindsight he wouldn't have supported the surge. What do you make of his argument?
HILARY ROSEN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think what Obama is saying is that the surge was part of a failed policy from the beginning, and we don't know what would have happened if that policy had not taken place.
And so you can't just dial the clock back on one thing. You have to dial back the clock on everything. The goalpost keeps changing for George Bush and John McCain in Iraq. And now they are saying, well, we have stemmed the violence, which is in effect we helped start create. So, John McCain can't have this both ways.
He can't say, oh, wait, I know how to win wars, but first I have to start one first. So, it just is preposterous to think that somehow John McCain gets credit for stemming violence that we helped to create, rather than focus on our strategic goals.
Obama is focused on our strategic goals. Why did we come here in the first place and what do we need to leave for? It's not about a military solution. It's about political progress. It's about Sunni and Shia living together, not in a civil war. It's not about American troops being an effective police force.
BROWN: And, Lars, does he have to acknowledge that the surge has worked or reduced violence if he's trying to be forward-looking about this?
LARS LARSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Campbell, it's been a bad day for senator zigzag.
The fact is, he does have to acknowledge it. The surge has worked. And I thought the more telling sound bite was senator zigzag said, we don't know what would have happened if we had started to pull all the troops out in January of last year, finishing in March of this year, as he proposed in January.
I think that you don't have to be a rocket science or a military expert to know that if we had started pulling out a brigade every three-and-a-half weeks in January of last year and communicated the message to the bad guys that Americans were turning tail and running, that the bad guys would have turned that place into chaos, and Senator Obama would not have been visiting the place this week.
BROWN: Hilary, Lars isn't out on a limb. A lot of people agree with that point of view.
ROSEN: Well, the fact is that the GAO just this past month said that our political objectives in Iraq, the reason that Congress was appropriating $300 billion over the last several years here, have not been achieved. And that's really the endgame.
I don't think we can say because violence has been stayed, that in and of itself is a means to the end. And that I think is the problem. So, we have stayed the violence, so we should stay there forever? That's the problem with this axis of the surge is working or surge isn't working. The point is, why are we there in the first place? What is the point of the surge? And Lars is just wrong in saying that the goal here is to stop the violence. The goal here is to get out of a civil war.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Go ahead, Lars.
(CROSSTALK)
LARSON: There is no civil rights. Remember the civil war that everybody said was happening two years ago that apparently didn't happen, because now that line has been dropped until tonight?
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: Of course there's a civil war. That's exactly what the Sunnis are afraid of. That's why the Sunnis don't want us to leave, because the Shia-dominated government is who is attacking the Sunnis.
(CROSSTALK)
LARSON: Hey, Campbell, here's what we have got in Iraq now. We have a win. We have a government that has free elections coming up. They have already held elections. They are mounting their own military and police.
They are even telling us, we're ready for you guys to leave fairly soon. Isn't that what we were after from the beginning? Depose Saddam Hussein, regime change as introduced in '98 by Bill Clinton and the U.S. Congress, and now a stable Iraq with its own self-government.
BROWN: OK. All right, hold tight, Hilary and Lars.
Who's right? Who's wrong? Is it Barack Obama? Is it John McCain? Is it Hilary Rosen? Is it Lars Larson? We are going to get a reality check in just a moment from George Packer. He has written extensively about Iraq. He was deep in the war zone when the surge began. He will be with us when we come back right after the break.
Also, breaking news on Hurricane Dolly. It's taking aim at the Texas coast. Up to 1.5 million people are in its path. We will have the latest coming up live.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: My view, based on the advice of military experts, is that we can redeploy safely in 16 months, so that our combat brigades are out of Iraq in 2010.
MCCAIN: Apparently, Senator Obama does not understand what is happening in Iraq and fails to acknowledge the success in Iraq. He would rather lose a war, than lose a campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, that is the debate pretty much in a nutshell, Obama vs. McCain?
So, who is right on the surge?
We want to get a reality check. As I mentioned before, George Packer is a reporter and a staff writer at "The New Yorker," also the author of "The Assassin's Gate: America in Iraq." And we have also got Hilary Rosen and Lars Larson back with us as well.
But, George, give us your perspective on this. Again, as I mentioned before, you were there when the surge began. Who is right?
GEORGE PACKER, "THE NEW YORKER": I'm interested in what the Iraqis are doing right now and it says something about the reality of the situation.
The prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, said and then tried to retract and then kind of said again that he basically supports the idea of American troops withdrawing by the end of the 2010. The Sunni vice president...
BROWN: A lot of people took that as an endorsement of Obama.
PACKER: He seemed to be intervening in our election. And since we have kind of intervened in theirs from time to time, it may have been payback.
But Tariq al-Hashimi, who is a Sunni vice president, seemed troubled by this. And I think what that says is, there was a civil war. I saw it. It was a very bad civil war. It lasted from 2006 to late 2007. It may have been caused by the surge. And I think what Tariq al-Hashimi is worried about is that, if we leave, the civil war is going to resume.
And I think what Nouri al-Maliki is thinking is, his troops have done quite well lately, and he may be prepared to take the risk that he can do without his American partners. And if the civil rights reignites...
BROWN: He thinks he can win.
PACKER: He thinks he can win, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
PACKER: And it's a frightening prospect because civil wars don't last a year-and-a-half or two years. Civil wars last a really long time. If Iraq's civil war is indeed over, it is one of the shortest in history. So I'm not sure we're done with this story and I'm not sure the Iraqis are done with it either.
I think it's going to continue. And whoever is the next president is going to have a very difficult situation on his hands.
ROSEN: Well, and it's clear that this particular war in Iraq among the Sunnis and Shias has not lasted not just two or three or five years, but hundreds of years. And that I think is the point that Barack Obama is making that is getting lost in this debate about the surge, which is, as the American commander in chief, his job is to direct our military, not just to do an effective police force job on the ground, but to deploy our resources where we are most at risk as Americans.
And that's why he has focused on Afghanistan. And, by the way, it's to Obama's credit that the focus is back on Afghanistan. You know, George Bush and John McCain hadn't talked about Afghanistan in a year. And so what he's saying is those are the kinds of decisions he has to make. And that's why all of this outrage about his discussions with General Petraeus really don't bother him.
He's saying, I want to hear what the commanders on the ground think, but really as Americans, we need to step back and say what is making us safer, not what is making Iraq safer. That's a big difference.
BROWN: Do you really, Hilary, really think that argument -- and, Lars, I will get your take on this -- is going to work with a lot of people? And I want you, George, on this as well, because Petraeus is a very popular man and the country has pretty much seemed at this point to defer to him on many of these issues, seems willing to and comfortable with that.
George, what do you think?
PACKER: Look, Obama is in a really difficult position. And it's partly just the nature of our political culture.
If he says the surge worked, the McCain campaign is going to say, your judgment was wrong back in early 2007. If he says that, as he did today, that he would still make the same decision, then McCain says, well, your judgment is bad today.
And one way or the other, he can't change his mind. He can't do as Keynes said, and when the facts change, I change my views. What do you do, sir?
So, he's sort of in this trap that is partly a creation I think of the media and of our policies and the desire -- and I'm part of it.
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: He did compliment the troops. He did compliment the troops and he was very clear when he said that there is a staying of the violence.
What he's also saying, though, is, what's the larger goal? And that's something that John McCain has not focused on, that George Bush has not been focused on. And I think Americans are kind of grateful for somebody to all of a sudden say, yes, why are we there? What is the goal? Staying the violence is good. We're proud of our troops. Petraeus is a great guy. But what's the end game here for America?
BROWN: Lars, I know you want to jump in.
LARSON: Campbell, I have got to tell you something. He disparaged the troops. And if you go back and listen to the sound bite, he says, well, the troops made some difference, but the Iraqis made most of the difference by having reconciliation.
And then the other part of this is that we're trying to pick a commander in chief. This man wants to tell us that he will make the best decisions for the United States of America. Why does that decision need to be made 16 months ahead, so that he can project forward a year-and-a-half, when nobody can imagine what is going to be going on there/ Only because it promises to win him the election. Because, if he says, I was wrong, I'm going to make the best decisions next year based on the information I hear from my own commanders, that isn't going to fly with his party. So, he's giving the politically convenient answer, instead of the one that a commander in chief would do, which is, I will make the good decisions based on the information at the time the information comes in.
BROWN: And, George, I'm going to give you the last word.
(CROSSTALK)
PACKER: Well, I would say you're wrong about one thing, which is it really was the fact that the Sunnis basically ended their insurgency, not because of our fighting them, but because of al Qaeda and the Shiites fighting them, and that was the main force in creating stability.
But I think you're right that Obama is in is tricky position. And he's sending two different signals. One is to his base, which is that he is going to withdraw from Iraq. And the other is to sort of the middle and the independents, when he said today in Amman, the next president will have to make some very difficult judgments and weigh different factors and be very realistic, and realism, rather than ideology, has to come back.
And I think that those are the two poles between which he keeps sort of floating. And as you said at the start, it's a tightrope that he has to walk.
BROWN: All right, guys, we have to end it there. But to George and to Hilary and Lars, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
LARSON: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: Coming up, the Texas coast bracing for Hurricane Dolly. It could have more than 1.5 million people in its path. We're going to find out what is happening with Dolly coming up next.
And then later, our Drew Griffin is not a terrorist. He's not, we promise. But apparently the government is not convinced. He is going to be here with the latest on his misadventures as a member of the infamous terrorist watch list.
This is the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Some breaking news now.
The shores of South Texas are getting ready for Hurricane Dolly to hit tomorrow. Dolly became a hurricane just a few hours ago. Warnings are up in South Texas and in northeast Mexico. Watch out for powerful winds and driving rain. Right now, thousands are moving inland.
Our Chad Myers has the latest from the CNN Severe Weather Center.
Chad, bring us up to date.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Campbell, still a 75-mile-per- hour storm.
And even the last pass with the hurricane hunter not even that impressive, maybe down to 70. But they kept it at a hurricane because if you get to 70, you would have to take it back down to a tropical storm. And you don't want to do that, because by 11:00 it may be back up. They don't want to keep bouncing it around. They kept it at 75 miles per hour for right now -- 120 to 130 miles away from Brownsville and moving at 11 miles per hour. So, this thing still has a nice movement to it and eventually it will move right into the Rio Grande Valley.
The Rio Grande Valley is a problem. There's going to be flooding through there because there could be six to 10 inches of rainfall there as this storm makes landfall, some time after morning tomorrow, after daybreak, though probably somewhere between noon and daybreak, still a little bit to go whether this thing goes faster or whether it actually goes a little bit slower.
The radar picture has been kind of obscured here. Here's the plane flying through this back and forth. It's still in it at this hour trying to figure out whether this is getting stronger or weaker -- Campbell.
BROWN: And, Chad, any of those folks need to be evacuating right now?
MYERS: I think if you are on the barrier island, if you are anywhere on South Padre Island, you need to be off the island tonight, now, because you can see these outer bands are almost getting to South Padre.
And once those bands get there, there's not going to be getting any off. You're going to be in this tropical storm-force wind. And when tropical storm-force winds blow, they are going to shut those bridges down and you're going to be stuck there. I would say if this turns into a strong Cat 1, maybe a weak Cat 2, right now, it doesn't seem like it, it's not getting stronger, but if it does, you do not want to be out there on those outer banks.
BROWN: And, Chad, I remember last night you showed us a map of all those oil rigs out there and what the effect that it could potentially have on this. What could this mean for oil prices?
MYERS: So far, I think that's probably so good. This thing is not going to get up here into the oil fields of Texas. There are a few rigs here and a few platforms in South Texas, but the main damage is actually going to be property damage. Only a couple were even evacuated today. I think something like three platforms were evacuated. The rest are way up here.
Now, the story today is going to be if this comes in at 100 mile- per-hour storm with gusts to 120, what's going to happen? And FEMA has crunched the numbers. We have run them through our computers. And the estimate right now is that there would be $2.9 billion with a B of damage from McAllen through Harlingen and into Brownsville. And that's actually just kind of a swipe at it compared to obviously what Katrina caused, exponentially more damage than that.
BROWN: All right, Chad. Thanks, Chad. Appreciate it.
MYERS: You're welcome.
BROWN: Well, they are on the same list as suspected terrorists and they are innocent travelers. CNN's Drew Griffin discovered the hard way that is he on the same terror watch list. See what happened at the airport after he got a written apology.
Also, Batman's real-life drama, actor Christian Bale accused of assaulting his family -- what he's telling police coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead tonight, deep family secrets are revealed at a family reunion, as we preview tomorrow's CNN special, "Black in America."
But, first, Ted Rowlands has tonight's briefing -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, some breaking news from Eldorado, Texas, where a grand jury has indicted the leader of a polygamist sect. Warren Jeffs is charged with sexually assaulting a child. Five of his followers were also charged today.
Leaders from the breakaway sect deny any abuse. In April, welfare agencies moved 400 children from Jeffs' compound until a judge ordered them returned.
Prosecutors in Orlando say case of a missing 2-year-old girl now looks more like a homicide. Detectives say they found a hair , stains, and a mysterious odor in Casey Anthony's car. They say the hair could be from her daughter, Caylee, who disappeared last month. A judge set bond for Casey Anthony at a half-million dollars.
The mortgage crisis hits a bank hard. Wachovia, the nation's fourth largest bank reported a loss of nearly $9 billion during the last quarter. It's cutting more than 10,000 jobs and it might sell off parts of the company.
The new Batman says he did not assault his mother and sister. Actor Christian Bale's publicist says London police questioned the star today, but he was not charged. His mother and his sister claim the assault took place in a hotel room on Sunday before the London premiere of "The Dark Knight," Bale's blockbuster Batman film.
And the oldest of TV's Golden Girls has died. Estelle Getty, who played year-old 80-year-old Sophia, was actually younger than her on- screen daughter, Bea Arthur. Betty died today in her Los Angeles home, after suffering from advanced dementia. She was 84 years old. And she was a doozy.
BROWN: Very popular woman.
All right, Ted Rowlands for us tonight -- Ted, thanks.
The government's no-fly list with the names of potential terrorists keeps getting longer. And sometimes they are not terrorists. They are just innocent people. Well, coming up, a new unbelievable chapter in the saga of a CNN correspondent who is one of the unlucky ones.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight we've got an update on a problem for hundreds of thousands, perhaps as many as a million Americans. Their names are on the government's ever expanding terror watch list, meaning enormous security hassles every time they fly. So how do innocent people get on that list and how can they get off?
Well, special investigations correspondent Drew Griffin has been putting those questions to the Transportation Security Administration, the TSA, for years now. And then just recently, his name showed up on the watch list. This came up at a congressional hearing last week as a Texas congresswoman confronted Homeland Security Michael Chertoff.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D), HOMELAND SECURITY CMTE: We understand that a new member is on the watch list, Drew Griffin of CNN. And my question is, why would Drew Griffin's name come on the watch list post his investigation of TSA? What a curious and interesting and troubling phenomena. What is the basis of this sudden recognition that Drew Griffin is a terrorist? Are we targeting people because of their critique or criticism?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, Secretary Chertoff promised to look into it and tonight Drew Griffin is in Detroit to tell us the very latest. And now, Drew, as I understand, you heard from the Department of Homeland Security after that hearing last week. Tell us what happened.
DREW GRIFFIN, SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, a lot of coincidences going on here. And coincidentally, on the same day of that hearing, the Department of Homeland Security decided to review my month's old request to get off the watch list. And in a letter dated from last Thursday, dated and mailed last Thursday, the Department of Homeland Security seems to be agreeing with me that I'm not a terrorist, saying that, "Where it was determined that a correction to records was warranted, these records were modified to address any delay or denial of boarding that you may have experienced as a result of the watch list screening process."
But the letter goes on to say I may still have problems, Campbell, and that I should produce this letter when I go to the airlines to check in for my flights and perhaps then I can get off of this watch list.
BROWN: So today, I know you flew from Atlanta to Detroit. What happens? Smooth sailing?
GRIFFIN: With my letter.
BROWN: With your letter in hand?
GRIFFIN: With my letter, I still was fingered as a person on the watch list. I had to produce I.D. and convince the gate, not the gate agent, but the ticket agent that I was not the same Griffin who is a supposed terrorist on that watch list. Only then could I get my ticket.
So I'm still having the same problems. I'm hoping there's just a bureaucratic delay in all of this. But I've heard from a lot of people who have had these letters sent to them and they're still on the list months, even years after the fact.
BROWN: Well, you're by no means alone in this. It's just amazing how many people do you think, how many other people may be going through it? What can they do? I mean, at least you have the power of CNN, your job. I mean, you can give them hell, I guess.
GRIFFIN: Yes.
BROWN: But for the average person, what do you do?
GRIFFIN: The average person has contacted us through e-mails and they just don't know what to do because basically once you get this letter, once you fill out the forms and send it in, you're at the mercy of Homeland Security over this. And since February of 2007, Campbell, February, 2007, according to Congresswoman Jackson Lee, 32,000 people had asked Homeland Security to get off this list. So it is a big problem.
That's just how many people are actually going through this process of getting it off. And I think we pointed out last week in one of our stories that James Robinson, Jim Robinson, a former U.S. attorney general, assistant U.S. attorney general, he's been on the list for three years and can't get off. And he filled out his paperwork right away.
BROWN: Well, it's either a bureaucratic nightmare or something else. We don't know. But anyway, it has been interesting to follow your troubles and travels, Drew.
Sorry. Sorry we're enjoying it at your expense but I hope this helps us get to the bottom of this in some way. Anyway, appreciate it.
GRIFFIN: Thanks, Campbell.
BROWN: Still ahead, John McCain, media critic. Well, he says reporters are gushing over his opponent overseas. Find out how the McCain campaign went on the war path. Plus, family members learned some long-kept secrets at a family reunion. A look ahead at our special "Black in America" series, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: "LARRY KING LIVE" coming up in just a few minutes ready to take on the press and the presidential race. Joy Behar is in for Larry tonight.
Joy, what's coming up?
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Hi, Campbell. Well, Barack Obama is everywhere it seems, in Iraq, in Jordan, in Jerusalem, on TV and newspapers. And it appears that John McCain is struggling to get coverage. Is the media playing favorites? We'll get into that.
Plus the issue that made news on "The View" last week. Is the ANWR off limits once and for all? Fran Drescher and Ben Stein are among my guests. See you next on "LARRY KING LIVE."
BROWN: Joy cannot wait to get your take on all of this. Good to have you on. We'll see you shortly.
BEHAR: OK.
BROWN: Coming up, is there a media love affair, as Joy has mentioned, with Barack Obama? Well, John McCain's camp says so, but is he turning it to his advantage?
And some of you at home, well, let's say you're pretty excited about what you've seen here on the ELECTION CENTER. We're going to read your viewer e-mails. Stick around for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: For the last few days, it seems like the news has been all Obama all the time. We have seen him get a rock star reception in the war zone. We've seen him meeting with heads of state. So what's an opponent to do faced with that kind of coverage?
I talked about that earlier with James Carville, Democratic strategist, and Bill Bennett, host of "Morning in America," a conservative national radio talk show.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Bill, the McCain campaign has been complaining about what they see as preferential treatment of Obama by the media. Today on their Web site, they posted this statement saying that, "It's pretty obvious the media has a bizarre fascination with Barack Obama. Some may even say it's a love affair."
They've also released two edited videos to prove their point, to raise cash for the campaign, too. So are they really upset about this, or are they trying to use it to their advantage here with Republicans to energize supporters?
BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, I think a little of both. I think they are upset about it and, you know, you use everything you can to try to raise cash for the campaign. I think it's true too. I think a lot of the media is soft. I mean, that started in (INAUDIBLE). I think had a lot of truth in it.
Howie Kurtz of CNN and the "Washington Post" has pointed out that there's clear bias toward Obama. At the same time, Obama is a very interesting character. It's a very interesting trip.
The trip was hyped in part by John McCain. So it's natural that they are covering it. And when a guy makes two, three-point shots in a row, you know, that's worth covering.
BROWN: James, do you see a disparity in the coverage right now?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I mean, I love it as he's getting coverage because he's actually over there and if things were going poorly, I think the media would cover him pretty poorly. I mean, look, am I going to say that the media is not enamored with Senator Obama? No, I'm not suggesting that at all. But by the same token, as the secretary pointed out, the McCain people raised the stakes and he's had a real good trip so far.
And McCain's campaign is having a real bad time back here in the U.S. saying, I mean, no, it didn't do well. Quit whining about the media and stop making mistakes.
BROWN: Well, and not to mention the fact that he was also, John McCain, the darling of the media back in 2000. They've even got a video we found up on their Web site, John McCain's daughter talking about the close relationship they've had with reporters hosting a barbecue with them. You know, there seems to be a slight double standard, I think, on some of the stuff.
BENNETT: No, it's just the change. It's just as you know he's the candidate. He was, you know, not the more conservative candidate when Bush was running. Now he is the more conservative candidate. Things have shifted and there is this tremendous infatuation with Obama.
BROWN: Let me get both of your takes on the Iraq debate that's been dominating this week.
BENNETT: Yes.
BROWN: You've got Obama out there saying that, knowing what I now know, I still would not have voted for the surge. McCain pointing the finger saying, see, it worked. I was right, Obama was wrong. Whatever you attribute it to, reports out of Iraq are better, I think, than they were a year ago. So who do you think is winning this debate? Who stands to gain more politically because of this? James?
CARVILLE: Well, right now, Obama is winning this debate and winning the entire Iraq debate, the entire foreign policy debate, the entire debate hands down. It's just the guy has had a golden week. There's no denying that.
BROWN: Bill?
BENNETT: On the surface it looks very good for Obama. The pictures are good. He looks good. It's good when Maliki is behind him. But why is the situation that way?
Problem is McCain has to go to this other level. And when he goes to that other level, he's got a great argument. He put his political campaign at risk by supporting the surge. The surge has been terrifically successful. Barack Obama is able to stand there and say, we should now do something fairly dramatic in terms of removal because of the success of our soldiers.
CARVILLE: Well, to be fair to Senator Obama, he's been pretty consistent in this, to everything to say that he wanted to get our troops out. And that's a point to be made.
And I think that Senator McCain, he certainly is within bounds to say that he went in some risk to support this...
BENNETT: Yes.
CARVILLE: ... and he wanted to win the war, where, again, he looks frustrated and cranky and out of touch as he said Obama would rather win the election than lose a war, which is, again, going over.
BENNETT: The problem with the Obama consistency is he was asked four times by Terry Moran of ABC, shouldn't you have supported the surge and each time he says no.
Sure, he should have. Everybody should have. It worked. It got to him to where he is today.
CARVILLE: But wait, that was consistent four times after.
(CROSSTALK)
BENNETT: Yes, right. Wrong answer for me.
BROWN: All right. OK.
James Carville and Bill Bennett for us tonight. Thanks, guys.
BENNETT: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Our ELECTION CENTER veepstakes market is really cooking. We've had almost 7,000 trades and if you think you know who is going to get the vice presidential nod, well, go to CNN.com/electioncenter and click on the "veepstakes" link.
We have set up a game that works a lot like the stock market. You can predict a winner then check the political fortunes of every possible running mate. For the Republicans, right now, Mitt Romney, the current leader, followed by Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal.
The Democrats have a new favorite. Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana is number one, followed by Joe Biden of Delaware.
And coming up, wait until you hear the e-mail we are getting about the press coverage of Barack Obama's world tour. We'll have that.
But up next, a preview of a major CNN event. We're going to take to you a family reunion that uncovers a long hidden family secret.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: This week CNN is bringing you the results of an unprecedented investigation in our groundbreaking documentary series, "Black in America." A pair of two-hour specials tomorrow and Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern reported by special correspondent Soledad O'Brien. And she's joining us now with a preview.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: We want to begin with the story of the Rands. They call themselves the mighty, mighty Rands. This is a family that in many ways is typical in black America and in many ways as a picture you don't get to see. So let's begin with the mighty Rands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN (voice-over): It's just after midnight in Houston, Texas. And the Rand family sets out for a family reunion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are the Rands.
CROWD: We are the Rands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mighty, mighty Rands.
CROWD: The mighty, mighty Rands.
O'BRIEN: At the same time, similar scenes in Dallas, New York, San Francisco, from all corners of the country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's get it on the road because we're on our way to Atlanta, Georgia, for the Rand family reunion.
O'BRIEN: Who are the Rands? They are mothers, fathers, aunts and uncles and cousins. Theirs are stories of struggle and success.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When one person in this family succeeds, all of us succeed.
O'BRIEN: And when one dies, they all feel the pain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I couldn't believe that I lost another child. O'BRIEN: Hundreds of miles later, they reach their final destination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, we made it. Oh, in the rain and all.
O'BRIEN: More than 300 Rands descend on the city of Atlanta.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 65 and above, forward. All you people, please work your way in the back.
O'BRIEN: At every reunion or tradition, the family portrait. But there is a mystery surrounding the Rand family, a missing link that very few know about. Ruby Stein McGee (ph) is known as the family historian.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is part one.
O'BRIEN: Everything she's learned over the years is recorded in these huge albums.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There she is. I have started two years ago after I received the picture.
O'BRIEN: A picture but more importantly, a name. From that, Ruby Stein (ph) was able to locate her great, great grandfather in this cemetery. Buried here, William Harrison Rand, the patriarch of the family and a white man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I thought, oh. How about that?
O'BRIEN (on camera): So you are reading it as, these are my roots?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are my roots, yes.
O'BRIEN (voice-over): Ruby Stein's (ph) research led to an even more surprising discovery.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This -- this is the branch where Martha is.
O'BRIEN: Martha Hicks, also William Rand's great, great granddaughter, and Ruby Stein's white cousin. Today Martha lives 400 miles away in Kerrville, Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is my great grandmother. I put an ad in the genealogical helper and a couple of months later I got a letter from this wonderful lady.
O'BRIEN: There's a white branch Rands...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
O'BRIEN: ... which you're part of?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
O'BRIEN: And the black branch of the Rands?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right, right.
O'BRIEN: In a lot of ways, the story of the Rands is a story of American families?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Have you met your black cousins?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not yet.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So you got to tell us how you met this family. What brought you to them?
O'BRIEN: We were looking to tell the story of black American families and for many black folks that means going to family reunions and finding finally the Rands have this 300-person large family reunion. And what we loved about the Rands is that they are really a metaphor for lots of black families.
They've had tremendous success for some people. They've had tremendous failure for others, and struggles for some people who overcome them, some who have not. So we were able to represent a lot of stories, and that was part of our goal, which was to tell a lot of stories that no one really talks about in black America.
BROWN: And why this documentary? Why now?
O'BRIEN: We really started 18 months ago shooting, pretty much, which was to look at the anniversary of the assassination of Martin Luther King. This year is the 40th anniversary.
So the first part of our documentary was "Eyewitness to Murder," which we aired on the day of the anniversary and then we said, well, clearly, the next question is, what happened?
Forty years later, where are African-Americans? Where are black people in this country? Where have they achieved? Where have they failed? And so it seemed to us that that was the question we had to answer next.
BROWN: And explain to us how it's going to work. Tomorrow night, the first of two parts?
O'BRIEN: Yes, two hours tomorrow night. We'll take a look at the black women and the family. And then on Thursday night, we'll take a two-hour look at black men and, of course, black men are part of the black family clearly. But we thought there were so many issues and topics to cover in black men that they needed their own two hours on Thursday night. So we take a look at them fully on Thursday night as well.
BROWN: Anything that really surprised you in making these documentaries?
O'BRIEN: A couple of things. I mean, we left you there in that piece with Martha Hicks saying she has never really met her black cousins. So we bring them together and both sides are incredibly nervous. And we'll tell you tomorrow how it turned out.
BROWN: I cannot wait. Soledad O'Brien with a really extraordinary body of work here.
O'BRIEN: Thank you.
BROWN: And again, join CNN this week. It's a two-part special, as we mentioned, "Black in America." Part one, "The Black Woman & Family" is tomorrow night, 9:00 Eastern. The second part, "The Black Man," is Thursday night, 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.
Soledad, thanks.
Next, we're going to get your thoughts about the media coverage of Barack Obama's world tour. We'll show you the e-mails we have been getting in the ELECTION CENTER. Yes, Mariame (ph), I'm reading your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Right now, we got a little feedback from our viewers. You know our motto here in the ELECTION CENTER is "No Bias, No Bull." But Mariame writes that she thinks we're all bias and all bull. Mariame says, "I cannot believe that you opened your show," meaning last night, "with the bogus McCain whining story about the 'New York Times' op-ed piece. Please give us as Americans some credit. It is obvious to all who (ph) watch that you support Senator McCain."
Dawn, however, who also e-mailed us sees it just the opposite. She says, "I can't take it anymore! Can you report on anything other than Obama? Can you find anything negative to report on Obama? Can you find anything positive to report on McCain?"
Well, when we hear that from both sides, we do know that we are doing our job. And if you want to send us your feedback, the address is campbell@CNN.com.
We've got one more update. We do want to leave on this hour's breaking news.
Hurricane Dolly, it is drifting northwest (ph) toward the border of Mexico and Texas right now. Top winds, 75 miles an hour. Expected to make landfall around noon on Wednesday.
The hurricane warning is in effect for the Texas coast from Brownsville to Corpus Christi and for the Mexican coast from Rio San Fernando to the border. Stay with CNN. We will be updating you on the very latest on Hurricane Dolly throughout the night and into tomorrow morning.
That's all for me in the ELECTION CENTER. Stay right there. "LARRY KING LIVE" is starting right now.
