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Nancy Grace
Missing Person Case Phone Calls Released
Aired July 25, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 2-year-old girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing. Little Caylee hasn`t been seen in five long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Tonight, another bombshell. Do stunning jailhouse phone calls between mother Casey and grandmother Cindy blow this case wide open? As family and friends on the line beg Mom for info on the little girl, all Mommy wants to talk about is her boyfriend, Casey Anthony confronted on lying about 2- year-old Caylee.
And a newly released 911 call reveals the grandmother threatened -- threatened -- to take Caylee away unless Mommy cooperates, then tells 911 Mom`s car smells like a dead body, this on the heels of two independent cadaver dogs hitting on Mom`s car trunk and back yard. And a tipster claims she saw the 2-year-old boarding a flight to Atlanta. Was Caylee sighted in a restaurant in north Georgia? Tonight, where is 2-year-old Caylee?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come everybody`s saying that you`re not upset, that you`re not crying, that you show no caring of where Caylee is at all?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Because I`m not sitting here (DELETED) crying every two seconds because I have to stay composed to talk to detectives, to make other phone calls, to do other things. I can`t sit here and be crying every two seconds like I want to. I can`t.
I know you`re on my side. I`m not trying to...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody`s saying anything bad about you. Your family is with you 100 percent.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, they`re not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes...
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s (DELETED) because I just watched the (DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they are. Nobody has said...
CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back. And you know what? That`s all I care about right now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Waste my call sitting in, oh, the jail.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Whose fault is you sitting in the jail? You`re blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail?
CASEY ANTHONY: Not my fault.
CINDY ANTHONY: Blame yourself for telling lies.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing. Little Caylee hasn`t been seen in five long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police? Tonight, another bombshell. Do stunning jailhouse phone calls between mother, Casey, and grandmother, Cindy, blow this case wide open? Just released, Caylee`s mom caught on tape from jail.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So how come everybody`s saying you`re lying?
CASEY ANTHONY: Because nobody`s (DELETED) listening to anything that I`m saying. The media completely misconstrued everything that I said. The (DELETED) detectives told them (DELETED) (DELETED). They want (ph) all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff. They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee. They`ve already said that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well...
CASEY ANTHONY: They arrested me because they said that...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, because they said that the person that you dropped Caylee with doesn`t even exist.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because -- oh, look, they can`t find her in the Florida database. She`s not just from Florida. If they would actually listen to anything that I would have said to them, they would have had their lead. They maybe could have tracked her down. They haven`t listened to a (DELETED) that I`ve said.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Tony have anything to do with Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No. Tony had nothing to do with Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. So why do you want to talk to him? You probably don`t want to tell me.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because he`s my boyfriend and I want to actually try to sit and talk to him because I didn`t get a chance to talk to him earlier because I got arrested on a (DELETED) whim today because they`re blaming me for stuff that I never would do, that I didn`t do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well, I`m on nobody -- I`m on your side. You know that.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, honey, I know that. I just want to talk to Tony and get a little bit of...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, you have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: Sweetheart...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! You understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!
CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: Hey, sweetie.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, I just saw your nice little cameo on TV.
CINDY ANTHONY: Which one?
CASEY ANTHONY: What do you mean, which one?
CINDY ANTHONY: Which one? I did four different ones, and I don`t know -- I haven`t seen them all. I`ve only seen one or two so far.
CASEY ANTHONY: You don`t know what my involvement is in stuff?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey...
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom?
CINDY ANTHONY: What?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, don`t waste your call to scream and holler at me.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Jailhouse tapes. Apparently, they didn`t realize they were being recorded, even though very plainly, you can hear at the outset that this call is being monitored. These are calls by mom Casey from behind bars that threaten to blow this case wide open. As family and friends on the other line actually break down crying, begging for information from Mommy about the whereabouts of her 2-year-old little girl, all she wants to talk about is her boyfriend, Tony.
Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. What`s the latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the latest is, of course, the jailhouse call that was released this afternoon. Also, there`s been a video release this afternoon of that. And you know...
GRACE: We`re showing that right now, Mark. Everyone, you are seeing actual phone calls of mom Casey behind bars, talking. These jailhouse tapes, Mark Williams -- stunning. She never breaks down.
WILLIAMS: No.
GRACE: She never cries. When people ask her about little Caylee, she never answers a single question. She keeps saying, This is a waste. Look, all I want is my boyfriend`s phone number. I don`t want to talk about Caylee.
WILLIAMS: Well, obviously, she is very self-centered for a 22-year- old woman. She won`t accept responsibility for what`s going on. It shows that the Anthony family is pretty much a dysfunctional family between Casey and her mother. Apparently, Casey doesn`t like her mother showing up on television all the time. And you`ve documented the fact that all she wants is the boyfriend`s mother (ph) -- the family`s trying to pump information from her, information that she`s not even giving investigators right now. So it is -- it is just a mosh (ph). I mean, this tape just blew my socks off this afternoon.
GRACE: Well, I got to tell you something, Mark. When the friend, Christina, is saying, Please, please tell me what you can about Caylee, she says, Oh, my God, what an F-ing waste this phone call was. That is her response.
Take a listen to mom Casey Anthony behind bars, being recorded on line with her mother.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: ... waste my call sitting in, oh, the jail.
CINDY ANTHONY: Whose fault is you sitting in the jail? You`re blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail?
CASEY ANTHONY: Not my fault.
CINDY ANTHONY: Blame yourself for telling lies. What do you mean, it`s not your fault? What do you mean it`s not your fault, sweetheart? If you`d have told them the truth and not lied about everything, they wouldn`t...
CASEY ANTHONY: Do me a favor. Just tell me what Tony`s number is. I don`t want to talk to you right now. Forget it.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t have his number.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, get it from Lee because I know Lee`s at the house. I saw Mallory`s car was out front. It was just on the news. They were just live outside the house.
CINDY ANTHONY: I know they were.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well?
CINDY ANTHONY: Well?
CASEY ANTHONY: Can you get Tony`s number for me so I can call him?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Tony have anything to do with Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No. Tony had nothing to do with Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. So why do you want to talk to him? You probably don`t want to tell me.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because he`s my boyfriend and I want to actually try to sit and talk to him because I didn`t get a chance to talk to him earlier because I got arrested on a (DELETED) whim today because they`re blaming me for stuff that I never would do, that I didn`t do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Well, I`m on nobody -- I`m on your side. You know that.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, honey, I know that. I just want to talk to Tony and get a little bit of...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, you have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: Sweetheart...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! You understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!
CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Incredible. We also learn -- let`s go out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO Newsradio. Drew, I think Tony, who she keeps wanting to talk to, may have some answers, not necessarily where Caylee is, but if she were -- if she had been with Tony on and off throughout these five weeks she was missing, did Tony ever see the little girl? We know police have canvassed door to door in Tony, the boyfriend`s, apartment. Now, what they have learned, Drew, is that several residents there in the apartment complex say, Yes, we saw Caylee. We saw her here in the apartment complex swimming pool. The last time any of them saw the little girl was in early June.
What more can you tell us, Drew?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO NEWSRADIO: Well, the thing is, you know, that`s pretty much -- around the middle part of June there was pretty much the last time anyone has seen he. While people in the neighborhood did see -- they had seen her playing in the pool (INAUDIBLE) like that, they haven`t seen her since she, you know, went missing. And while her boyfriend has said that he is helping investigators, he hasn`t to this point revealed any evidence that has led to a break in the case.
GRACE: You know -- back to Mark Williams at WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, I think that we can glean a great deal of evidence from what Tony, the boyfriend, observed. For instance, did she continue to tell him the baby was at the beach with the nanny, the baby was at an amusement park with the nanny? Has anybody except mom Casey ever seen the nanny?
WILLIAMS: Nobody has seen the nanny. I mean, you know, police have gone to her alleged address and she is nowhere to be found. Even Casey in that phone call this afternoon mentioned, Well, she may not be in the Florida database. She may be in the North Carolina database...
GRACE: Yes, I heard that.
WILLIAMS: ... or New York state.
GRACE: I heard that.
WILLIAMS: You know...
GRACE: She may not be just from Florida.
WILLIAMS: Yes, but -- well, the other thing is the fact that the father this afternoon, on a local media outlet, said they`re only a couple of thousand dollars away from releasing Casey from jail, which was a stunning revelation for me because that was the first time I had heard about that.
GRACE: Everybody, we are talking your calls live. Out to Ginny in Florida. Hi, Ginny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How`re you doing tonight?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Listen, honey, she had a whole month to get rid of this baby. Is it possible that she dumped it in plastic bags and took it to the dump, and now she feels very confident that no one`s going to find it? And I think the mother, the daughter, the whole family`s playing the system.
GRACE: You know, Ginny, I think that you have a very good point regarding the possibility the body has been disposed of. But I want you to listen to what the grandmother, grandmother Cindy, says. She`s trying make a 911 call. They`ve hooked (ph) her. She`s called the wrong jurisdiction. And while they`re waiting to get to the correct jurisdiction, the grandmother says, Listen -- the mother says, Give me one or day, give me one more day to find Caylee. The grandmother says, No, I`ve given you 30 days to find her, and if you don`t -- it goes inaudible. She says, We`re going to get a court order to get her.
So Ginny in Florida, that suggests to me that a grandmother, Cindy Anthony, truly believed at that juncture the little girl was alive.
Liz, do we have that sound? We do. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: ... because my next thing will be down to child (INAUDIBLE) thing and we`ll have a court order to get her. If that`s the way you want to play it, we`ll do it and you`ll never...
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s not the way I want to play it.
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, then you have to...
CASEY ANTHONY: Give me one more day.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: To Donald Schweitzer, former detective with Santa Ana PD. That one slip right there, when they did not realize they were between phone calls, between the police and the sheriff`s office, they didn`t know they were still being recorded, says to me that Cindy Anthony up until this juncture really believed the little girl was still alive. What do you think?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: I agree with you, Nancy. I think that she was buying into the story that the child was with a missing nanny. But it also tells me that the mother doesn`t trust the daughter and that she`s questioning her and she`s probing and she`s threatening to report her to the police. So she knows that something`s wrong, as well, at that juncture.
GRACE: I think you`re right.
Back out to the lines. Mary Jo in New Jersey. Hi, Mary Jo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How`re you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, congratulations on your beautiful miracles.
GRACE: You know what? Thank you very much. I`ve got a photo for you later on tonight. What do you think about this case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I was actually wondering, how did Caylee`s father die, were her parents still together at the time?
GRACE: It`s my understanding that -- I think you were talking about Caylee, how did Caylee`s father die -- in a car crash. What do we know, Mark Williams?
WILLIAMS: That`s the information that I know, Nancy, that he died about a year ago in a car accident, and she`s been pretty much, you know, raising the child by herself, along with her parents, in east Orange County. That`s the only information we`ve been able to glean. And Tony came into her life -- this Tony Lazarro (ph) came into her life a couple of months ago, two months ago, so they`ve been an item for a while.
GRACE: And another issue regarding the death of the father of Caylee, Caylee`s father. We learned from police sources that the very first thing they did was reach out to all relatives, all family members and nail down their alibis, the last time they had seen Caylee. All of those relatives, to my understanding, Mary Jo in New Jersey, have been spoken to.
To Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, joining us out of New York. This theory that Ginny called in from Florida, about the disposal of the body -- if there is a body, if it was disposed of in that manner, say, back in June, in a dump, in a trash dump, would there be any way to find it now?
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I think it would be exceptionally difficult. There would clearly be a great deal of decomposition and putrefaction. The question is, is could you detect the object in a plastic bag in a dump, and without having any insight into where to look. I mean, some of these dumps are enormous in size. I think it would be almost an impossible task to find that kind of object in a large dump.
GRACE: And back to Donald Schweitzer, former detective with Santa Ana PD. When she said -- and we`re about to play this for you -- the police refused to listen to her -- I`m talking about the recorded phone calls that have just been released as we go to air, jailhouse recordings of mom Casey on the phone with grandmother Cindy. She says on the phone, This woman is not just from Florida. She could be in North Carolina or New York. They`ve got to search the database. What about that?
SCHWEITZER: Nancy, I`ve actually read the police reports, and it appears to me that the police did everything they could to find this woman. They went to the house that this woman claimed to have been living. There`s no such person. They`ve done everything they can.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So how can I find out the information about that girl?
CASEY ANTHONY: Have them look up a New York license for Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. They`ve just been looking up the last name Gonzalez or the last name Fernandez. If they looked up her entire name, they might actually find her. They haven`t done that. They haven`t listened to anything that I`ve said.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where does she live? Because they went and looked at her place and...
CASEY ANTHONY: Baby, you`re not telling me anything that I don`t already know. Again, I only have been in jail since, oh, about 8:30 tonight. I was with them...
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know that whoever has Caylee, nobody`s going to get away with it. Nobody.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know nobody`s going to get away with it. But at the same time, the only way they`re going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I`m saying. And I`m trying to help them and they`re not letting me help them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So how can I help them find her? The best thing you can do, baby, is listen to me.
CASEY ANTHONY: They need to look up her information in the New York database and a North Carolina database, other places that she`s lived outside of Florida. That`s what I told them even again today. I told them that four times today.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Susan Moss, Hugo Rodriguez and Seema Iyer. Susan Moss, weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: She has no remorse for this loss. I mean, listen to her. Listen to her speak. It`s all about her. It`s all about her thoughts, her feelings and how the world has done her wrong. If she -- she lost her child, yet she doesn`t make any pleas to try to do more things to try to help find her child, other than looking up this mythical baby-sitter.
GRACE: Hugo?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t disagree. It`s very mysterious. It`s a very troubled young woman.
GRACE: Mysterious?
RODRIGUEZ: Mysterious...
GRACE: What`s mysterious about it?
RODRIGUEZ: I mean her...
GRACE: She`s lying through her teeth. Is that a mystery?
RODRIGUEZ: It is -- if she is really sincere about finding daughter, it is mysterious. I don`t think an ordinary mother would be doing that, Nancy.
GRACE: Seema?
SEEMA IYER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think you`re all looking at this like this is some smoking gun evidence. None of us are here to judge how she should react to this type of trauma and this type of loss. And this tape is evidence of nothing, zero, zilch.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I know you`re on my side, and I`m not trying to...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody`s saying anything bad about you. Your family is with you 100 percent.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, they`re not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes...
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s (DELETED) because I just watched the (DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they are. Nobody has said...
CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back. And you know what? That`s all I care about right now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I know you`re on my side, and I`m not trying to...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody`s saying anything bad about you. Your family is with you 100 percent.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, they`re not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes...
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s (DELETED) because I just watched the (DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they are. Nobody has said...
CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back. And you know what? That`s all I care about right now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Dr. Mark Hillman, clinical psychotherapist and author. Did you hear her say, All they care about is Caylee? That`s all they care about? In other words, they don`t care about me, they only care about her. What is wrong with her?
MARK HILLMAN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s called schizoid affective disorder. In other words, this is a very, very sick woman.
GRACE: Well, that`s not what I would have called it, but go ahead.
HILLMAN: This woman creates a very fabricated reality and then she occupies it. She says she`s concerned about her daughter. She lies to the police. She does her own investigation for 31 days. She`s cooking for Tony, the boyfriend. And she`s using her mother`s stolen credit card to go on a shopping spree. She lies about the baby-sitter. She lies about the address. She lies about working. And Judge Strickland said it best. The truth and Miss Anthony are complete strangers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: So how can I find out the information about that girl?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD: Have them look up a New York license for Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. They`ve just been looking up the last name Gonzalez or the last name Fernandez. If they looked up her entire name, they might actually find her. They haven`t done that. They haven`t listened to anything that I`ve said.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Where does she live? Because they went and looked at her place.
CASEY: Baby, you`re not telling me anything that I don`t already know. Again, I`ve only been in jail since oh about 8:30 tonight. I was with them all day today. I know that. I was with officers, pretty much since 9:00 last night up until today, like up until this evening when I came up here.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: But you`re telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Because they`ll find.
CASEY: That it`s, I have no clue where my daughter is? Yes, that is the truth. That is the absolute truth.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: They`ll find out and whoever.
CASEY: OK. Christina, I`m hanging up.
CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD`S GRANDMOTHER: I have a 3-year-old that`s been missing for a month.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: A 3-year-old?
CINDY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Have you reported that?
CINDY: I`m trying to do that now, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What did the person do that you need arrested?
CINDY: My daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: For what?
CINDY: For stealing an auto and stealing money.
Casey?
CASEY: Mom.
CINDY: Hey, sweetie.
CASEY: Well, I just saw your nice little cameo on TV.
CINDY: Which one?
CASEY: What do you mean which one?
CINDY: Which one? I did four different ones and I don`t know -- I haven`t seen them all. I`ve only seen one or two so far.
CASEY: You don`t know what my involvement is in stuff?
CINDY: Casey.
CASEY: Mom.
CINDY: What?
CASEY: No.
CINDY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
CINDY: Casey, don`t waste your call to scream and holler at me.
CASEY: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The grandmother, Cindy Anthony, remaining extremely poised and in control, almost placating her daughter behind bars.
You`re seeing newly released videos of Casey Anthony behind bars and these phone calls released as we go to air -- calls that could blow the case wide open while family and friends and family beg for information about missing Caylee, the 2-year-old daughter.
All mommy wants to talk about is her boyfriend.
Straight to the lines, Deidra in West Virginia. Hi, Deidra.
DEIDRA, WEST VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Hi, how are you, Nancy.
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DEIDRA: First of all, I want to say thank you for having such a great show.
GRACE: Thank you. It`s actually a whole team of us.
DEIDRA: I know that.
GRACE: But I will pass that on, thank you.
DEIDRA: OK. And also, I just want to say that that girl -- mother is so self-differing that she is so self-centered that she`s not really caring where that child is. She is more interested in her boyfriend and such language that she uses.
GRACE: You know -- you know what, Deidra -- don`t you think, Deidra -- Liz, keep Deidra on the line, please. Don`t you think that she`d by saying, have you gotten any tips? Who`s manning the phone calls? What are you guys doing? Have you put out fliers?
DEIDRA: Exactly.
GRACE: Have you looked at this apartment complex? Have you looked in this apartment complex? Did you get the video from the airport? I mean wouldn`t you think she`d be asking those kind of questions? Just think about it. Can you imagine if somebody in your family goes missing, wouldn`t you be out on the street begging people to help you, Deidra?
DEIDRA: Yes, not a month from then, it would be the same day. And that`s the reason I feel that she is behind all this. And she doesn`t care about that little girl.
GRACE: You know let`s go to the defense lawyers. I think Deidra is correct.
Susan Moss with us, family law attorney, child advocate. Also with us, veteran defense attorney out of Miami, Hugo Rodriguez. Also with us, Seema Iyer, defense attorney out of New York.
What about it, Seema?
SEEMA IYER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What about it is that you keep getting so excited about this.
GRACE: I`m not excited.
IYER: Yes, you`re very excited. You act like she`s saying.
GRACE: I am convinced.
IYER: . she is guilty.
GRACE: I am convinced that she knows more than what she`s telling us.
IYER: Well, and also the grandmother.
GRACE: If she cared about her daughter, she would tell us.
IYER: Yes, ma`am, but also the grandmother. Let us not forget that the grandmother said, I gave you 31 days. That means to me that the grandmother was in on it, she knew about it, and I would love to defend Casey so I could plan B the grandmother.
GRACE: And you might also notice, Seema, if you take that in context and the grandmother is trying to find out where the little girl is, and believes that she`s still alive, and she`s wanting to get a court order to take the little girl away.
IYER: I disagree. I disagree.
GRACE: You didn`t hear that?
IYER: I heard.
GRACE: OK, Liz, can you queue that up for me?
IYER: I`m listening.
GRACE: Seema appears to only hear in one ear, the bad one.
What about it, Hugo?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: Listen, we`re focus -- we`re missing the focus. I know where you`re going but I`m going to said it before, let`s not race to judgment. She may be a poor mother. She may be a narcissistic.
GRACE: Not poor.
RODRIGUEZ: She may be involved with her boyfriend. But.
GRACE: She ran up $45,000 worth of debt on her mother`s credit card.
RODRIGUEZ: So that doesn`t mean that she has done anything improper with her child.
GRACE: So why did you say she`s poor?
RODRIGUEZ: I mean she`s poor because she made poor judgment.
GRACE: You feel sorry for her?
RODRIGUEZ: No. She made poor judgment. She may be narcissistic, she may be involved with her self, but let`s not race to judgment.
GRACE: No.
RODRIGUEZ: We`ve got Duke, we`ve got Atlanta. We`ve got Ramsey. Let`s hold on. Let`s hold on yet.
GRACE: What about Ramsey?
RODRIGUEZ: Why did they release all these? Yes, all these crisis.
GRACE: Well, why did you say.
RODRIGUEZ: All these people. We were ready to crucify her parents. And we -- we now know they had nothing to do with it.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa.
RODRIGUEZ: We were ready to crucify her parents.
GRACE: What are you talking about?
RODRIGUEZ: I`m saying.
GRACE: Focus in, bring it in.
RODRIGUEZ: Let`s focus in.
GRACE: Come on, bring it in. Let`s focus on this.
RODRIGUEZ: She`s been charged with obstructing a police investigation and child endearment.
GRACE: Endangerment.
RODRIGUEZ: Endangerment. I believe they`ve made a mistake in arresting her for these charges. They`re not going to get anywhere. She`s going to invoke her rights and not cooperate any further. What`s the purpose?
GRACE: And Susan Moss, don`t you believe that if she wanted to find her child -- and I appreciate what Seema and Hugo are saying, they`re veteran defense attorneys, that`s what they do for a living.
OK? Got it.
But don`t you think, practically speaking, Sue Moss, if you have a family member missing and you finally get through on that jail phone, there`s a line of 30 people you got to wait on to get to that phone, and it tells you, you`re being recorded, don`t you think she`d be saying, have you tried this? Have you called this person? Have you tried that person?
Nothing, nothing about finding the baby.
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Amen. In this case, in this case, the evidence is mounting. I -- her trunk has the hair of the missing tot. My goodness, in jail, she should sit and rot. This woman is going to be crucified because of her own statements, her own doings, her own car and her own backyard.
GRACE: And speaking of that stain -- Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, joining us out of New York -- Kobi, it`s been several days now. They found the stain in the trunk with one of the ultraviolet lights. Can`t they at least tell me if it`s blood?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: They would know that almost immediately. Nancy, they have field testing. They could have taken a fiber and tested it right there and then at least to get a presumptive determination.
GRACE: What about if it was cadaver fluid? When your body starts decomposing, it leaks.
KOBILISNKY: Yes, you would find the presence of human hemoglobin. They could have cut out that fabric, brought it back to the lab, done all kinds of tests, presumptive test, confirmatory test, species test. They should know what it is at this stage.
GRACE: Larry, you and I have seen whole cars dismantled just to get this much.
KOBILISNKY: Sure.
GRACE: . of a sample. Like you said, they`ll rip up that carpet, they`d take it in, and taken analysis on it immediately.
KOBILISNKY: Absolutely.
GRACE: And do you think they`ve got it and they`re just not telling us?
KOBILISNKY: I don`t -- yes, that`s a good question because these kind of results come back quickly. The issue now is, if it`s biological, if it`s human, is it this young little girl? And that, I mean, you need to have.
GRACE: Right.
KOBILISNKY: . something to compare it to. And they would know that in a matter of day or two.
GRACE: Well then, they would have that in the grandmother`s home.
KOBILISNKY: Yes.
GRACE: Her hair brush, anything to get a nucleus (INAUDIBLE), to get DNA.
KOBILISNKY: Absolutely, absolutely right. And they would know that quickly, a couple of days would be more than enough to bring this whole thing to a conclusion.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Jennifer in Florida. Hi, Jennifer.
JENNIFER, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
JENNIFER: Good. I have a question for you - well, first, I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
JENNIFER: And second, I remember two years ago, you had extensive coverage on the Trenton Duckett case.
GRACE: Yes.
JENNIFER: And this case, to me, has so many similarities to that one. It`s in the same area. This mother reminds me so much of the uncooperative Melinda Duckett. The kids were the same ages, the mothers were the same ages. I was wondering if there was some type of weird thing going on in that area with small children.
GRACE: You know what, a lot of people have made the comparison to the Duckett case. I don`t think it`s exclusive to the area but a lot of people have made that observation and, as you all know, Miss Duckett went to her grave never revealing what she else knew about the disappearance of her little girl -- of her little boy Trenton.
Everybody, we are taking your calls live.
Quickly to break, tonight, at your request, here is another picture of the twins. Now here they are, they look like they`re sitting up, but what we did. We held them to the last minute, and go one, two, three, and pulled back and take the picture. And then immediately they fell.
But this is such a big deal. This happened this week. Can you remember when they were in intensive care? We were all praying that they would live?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY: Because my next thing will be down to child (INAUDIBLE) and we`ll have a court order to get her. If that`s the way you want to play, we`ll do it and you`ll never.
CASEY: That`s not the way I want to play.
CINDY: Well, then, you have.
CASEY: Give me one more day.
CINDY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: Anyway, you only got a couple of minutes with us so I`m not going to let you completely waste it. Here`s Christina. She thinks she can get through to you.
CASEY: No. No. I want Tony`s number. I`m not talking to anybody else.
CHRISTINA: Hello?
CASEY: Hi, I`m glad everybody`s at my house. I`ll have to call you later or I`ll have to call somebody to get your numbers. Do me a favor, get my brother back because I need Tony`s number.
CHRISTINA: OK. Is there anything I can do for you?
CASEY: I`m sitting in jail. There`s nothing anybody can do right now.
CHRISTINA: Well, I`m just trying to be a.
CASEY: Oh I know you are, honey. I absolutely know that you are and I appreciate everything that you`re trying to do but, I`d like to call Tony. He`s not at my house, is he?
CHRISTINA: No, no.
CASEY: OK.
CHRISTINA: It`s just me and your parents, and Lee.
How come everybody`s saying that you`re not upset, that you`re not crying, that you showed no caring of where Caylee is at all?
CASEY: Because I`m not sitting here (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crying every two seconds, because I have to stay composed to talk to detectives, to make other phone calls, to do other things. I can`t sit here and be crying every two seconds like I want to. I can`t.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Stunning jailhouse phone tapes reveal the state of mind of mom, Casey Anthony. Her little girl Caylee has been missing now for over five weeks.
We`re taking your calls live, Nancy in Georgia, hi, Nancy.
NANCY, GEORGIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I wondered if there was focus on the car if the mother had left her in the car while she went on the shopping spree or as we did in Atlanta we had a mother that left the child in the car when she went in to do her work, her job and the child died.
GRACE: Interesting question.
To Mark Williams at WNDB Newstalk 1150 -- Mark, if she were using her mother`s credit card, couldn`t they determine where she had been, when she had been there, and whether anyone had seen the little girl with her?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Of course. I mean, if she went on the shopping spree and ran up the $45,000, they ought to be able to trace through that banking company where she spent that money, what state she was in.
One of the other things, Nancy, that I want to put out is have police checked the service records of that automobile. People usually get their oil changed every three to five thousand miles. There`s got to be a paper trail just with the car.
GRACE: Mark, Mark, Mark, that`s normal people, logical people, all right? I don`t know if she`s thinking about getting an oil change after 3,000 miles.
Out to the lines, Sally in Florida. Hi, Sally.
SALLY: Hey, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
SALLY: My question is, deja vu, I live right here in Leesburg where we -- Trenton Ducket was.
GRACE: Yes.
SALLY: . abducted. And he was taken out a window by a stranger. This little girl is taken by a strange babysitter, and I`m just saying, if they release her from jail, are they sure she won`t be the same as the other one?
GRACE: You know that`s an interesting point because, Susan, the judge did say a condition of her being released from jail was not one but two shrinks, two psychological exams.
MOSS: Absolutely. I have -- I don`t think she`s going to commit suicide but I think she`ll disappear quicker than this mythical babysitter.
GRACE: You know, speaking of the babysitter, it seems to me -- out to you, Donald Schweitzer -- that there would be some record of her. They found the woman, Zenaida Hernandez Gonzales in Florida, but now, she says, well, maybe she`s in North Carolina, maybe she`s in New York.
You`ve got to have some record, a gas bill, an apartment lease, a driver`s license, something.
So, what about it? How would they go about tracking it that quickly?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FMR. DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: Nancy, determining whether a person exists is pretty easy. It doesn`t take a rocket scientist to investigate that one. They could simply go to where this woman was supposed to have lived and ask neighbors, ask friends. People just don`t exist with being known.
This was an easy one. The police did that and they weren`t able to confirm.
GRACE: And you know, another issue now that you are mentioning that, to Mark Williams with WNDB -- Mark, mom Casey said that she spoke with the little girl right before she goes missing. She was with the nanny, but then when she tried to call back, the phone was out of service.
Wouldn`t they have records of that? Can`t they ping a cell phone if there is one?
WILLIAMS: Yes, they can. And if you`d call 911 today, in this county, they can tell you exactly where that phone is from. They can ping that phone and that`s kind of an easy thing to do. And you can go back to the cell phone provider and.
GRACE: Absolutely.
WILLIAMS: . pull those lists.
GRACE: Which tells me the police are correct that this woman does not exist, this nanny.
To Mindy in Alabama, hi, dear.
MINDY, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
MINDY: Well, I was wondering, if there are any child abandonment laws in the state of Florida, if this is supposedly true that she did leave the toddler.
GRACE: Yes.
MINDY: . with the babysitter, if the babysitter exists.
GRACE: Is that child abandonment? Yes, it would at least be child neglect and she is actually charged with that, Mindy in Alabama. How long they`ll hold her, I don`t know.
Very quickly tonight, everyone, tonight, "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Through translator) For 20 years, I walked with a little wheelbarrow, selling house, cleaning products for six or seven hours a day.
With the money I earn, I buy food for my family and medicine for my wife who has cancer. The situation is tough. A bicycle could really help me.
DAVE SCHWEIDENBACK, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: OK. I think we got them.
My name`s Dave Schweidenback. I`m the founder of Pedals and Progress. I collect bikes for people in the developing world.
You ready to part with this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
SCHWEINDENBACK: When I was a Peace Corps volunteer down in the Amazon basin, everybody walks everywhere they go all the time. I knew that a bicycle could change someone`s life for the better.
Now I decided to run bike collections and send them to people to help give them a better life.
We break them down, load them into the containers, and when the containers arrive overseas, the bicycles are sold at low costs to the local people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through translator): Now, things are better. I sell more because I do my rounds quicker. Because of a bicycle, my life has changed.
SCHWEINDENBACK: My goal is to continue to collect as many bikes as I can and ship them to as many places as there are poor people who need them.
ANNOUNCER: July is the last month to nominate someone you know as a CNN HERO for 2008.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at stories and more important the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Okfuskee County 911. State your emergency.
UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: Yes. Somebody`s killed two girls over -- my daughter.
GRACE: We want justice for Taylor and Skyla.
Why release the 911 now?
MARSHALL STEWART, REPORTER, KRMG NEWSRADIO: At first, they didn`t want to do it, Nancy, because they thought it was too upsetting and wouldn`t help solve the crime. But it`s been six weeks since these little girls were killed, and so they think maybe this will prompt someone to come forward with information. Just hearing this really is upsetting.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Len Wawczak and his wife Paula Stark wore a wire and recorded their conversations with Drew Peterson.
GRACE: Out to Joe Hosey with the "Herald News" -- Joe, can we confirm the secret tapes actually exist?
JOE HOSEY, HERALD NEWS, INTERVIEWED FRIENDS CLAIMING THEY TAPED PETERSON: I believe so, yes.
GRACE: How?
HOSEY: I can`t say that at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Your daughter admitted that your -- the baby is where?
CINDY: The babysitter took her a month ago that my daughter`s been looking for. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can`t find my granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From June 16th until July 15th, did you have any contact with Casey?
CINDY: Every day.
There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the car.
There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots. It smells so bad.
GRACE: I would want to find the little girl alive, Mr. Baez.
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR MISSING TOT`S MOTHER CASEY ANTHONY: I`m a little confused as to why you would ask that question.
GRACE: Because I want to find Caylee alive and obviously you and your client do not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Donald Burkett, 24, (INAUDIBLE) Texas, killed, Iraq. Awarded many medals including National Defense service medal. Dreamed of becoming a sergeant. Leaves behind wife Brandi, son Mason, mother Carolyn, two brother, Jason and Wayne.
Donald Burkett, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room. There they are, Bret, Liz, Rosie.
Good night, everybody.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
