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Congress Passes Financial Rescue Package; Small Business Running into Trouble Getting Loans; Imprisoned Border Agents Lose Appeal
Aired July 28, 2008 - 19:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, President Bush gets ready to sign a massive mortgage bailout. Oh, this is great. They`re raising the debt ceiling again. I`ll explain why this is so bad for you and for America.
Plus, shocking new details for a huge raid at a meat packing plant in America show why illegal immigration is slavery.
And could "The Dark Knight" be a conservative film about the war on terror? Look for the hidden message, coming up, tonight.
BECK: Well, hello, America. I`ve got good news and bad news over the weekend. The good news is Congress finally did something. The bad news is Congress finally did something.
Congress has hammered out the most far-reaching rescue package of America`s financial system since FDR`s the New Deal. Who would have seen this one coming?
President Bush has said in the past, "Oh, I`m not going to sign that." He flipped on that one. He decided that he`s going to give the U.S. treasury unchecked authority to prop up the giant mortgage lenders Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Together, Fannie and Freddie own or guarantee half of this country`s $12 trillion stock of home loans. Oh, goody. So here`s "The Point" tonight.
Hard work and responsibility? Please, give me a break. Borrow big. To hell with paying it back. The government is going to bail us all out. It`s free money, and here`s how I got there.
This -- this scheme by Congress and the president is aimed at providing relief for over 400,000 struggling homeowners who are at the risk of losing their homes. I am not without compassion, but I am against get- out-of-jail-free cards for people who buy things that they can`t afford. Why should people like you or me, who pay our bills, why should we continue to pay our bills when our government is just going to give out handouts to people who don`t pay their bills? You can`t use public money to save private property.
I know. I know. That`s always the part that seems to get lost in the fine print. When the government spends money helping Joe Shmoe pay for the house that he can`t afford, the government is writing a check with your money. At the same time, the geniuses in Washington made this reckless move. They also raised the ceiling on the U.S. national debt by nearly $1 trillion. Think about that.
That`s like, you know, calling up Amex and saying, "Woo, do I have a gambling problem. I am addicted to gambling like crazy. I`ve already maxed out my card due to losses in Atlantic City. But it was just -- I was unlucky. I was on the verge. Will you please raise my limit, because I just got a ticket to Vegas, baby?"
Now imagine that they don`t hang up the phone. Imagine that they go, "Oh, you`re going to Vegas. Hang on just a second. Bill, raise the credit limit on this yahoo. It sounds crazy, but that`s what Washington has just done."
So America, here is what you need to know tonight. Backing deadbeats and the banks that loan money to them makes it harder for the rest of us to get loans. Wait until I tell you what`s going on in the small business sector here in about ten minutes.
When the ceiling of the national debt goes up, that puts our national credit rating in jeopardy. When our credit rating suffers, interest rates go up. The dollar takes another hit. That hurts you when you try to buy a house or milk.
So while your neighbor bought that four-bedroom colonial when, really, they could only afford a two-bedroom trailer, you just got stuck paying the difference.
Like I said, I am not without compassion for those who need help. But charity is for churches, not the federal government. The marketplace must be allowed to function without government bailouts. If you got cheated by your bank, sue the pants off of that bank, and the government should help you put them in jail. But if you or the greedy bankers bit off more than you could chew, sucks to be you, doesn`t it?
Stephen Moore writes editorials on economics for "The Wall Street Journal," and Peter Schiff is the president of Europac and the author of "Crash Proof: How to Profit from the Coming Economic Collapse."
I love the name of that one, Peter.
Stephen, let me start with you. Free lunches for everybody. Man, I want to work hard now.
STEPHEN MOORE, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Yes. We should call it the United States of Bailout, because we have now bailed out virtually all of the people who have bad mortgages, all of the banks.
And, you know, Glenn I was in Washington over the weekend watching this debate. There was nobody at the table representing the interests of the taxpayers.
One of the reasons that they were so eager to give this blank check to these big housing behemoths, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, is guess what, Glenn, guess -- they have huge PACs, and they give money to all these politicians.
BECK: Oh, yes.
MOORE: So all this money that`s going to be going out in bailout to Fannie and Freddie, a lot of that`s going to come right back to the politicians in campaign contributions. You can`t make this stuff up, Glenn.
BECK: It -- we`ve truly been sold out. I really truly believe we`ve been sold out.
Peter, I am so sick of hearing the phrase, "They`re too big to fail." I mean, look at me. Nobody has ever said I`m too big to fail. Nor should they. You should fail.
PETER SCHIFF, AUTHOR, "CRASH PROOF": But yes. But they`re too big to bail. That`s the problem. And it`s not the taxpayers. These guys don`t have the guts to raise taxes. It`s wage earners. It`s people who have dollars, savings. They`re going to destroy our currency. That`s what`s going to happen.
You know, when I wrote that book, "Crash Proof," not only did I predict that Freddie and Fannie would fail, but I also predicted that the economic would bail them out, and that the economic consequences of the bailout are far worse than letting them fail.
BECK: OK. What are the economic consequences? The dollar is one?
SCHIFF: Well, first of all, you`ve got all the moral hazards that you talked about. Look, right now Freddie and Fannie guarantee $5.2 trillion in mortgages, based on this new regulation. Probably in a year or two, they`ll guarantee $7 or $8 or $9 trillion. It`s going to be a bigger problem. The mortgages are still bad.
The houses are not worth anything near what people paid for them. A lot of the debt isn`t even from houses. It`s from all the cars and SUVs and vacations that people charged to their home equity.
MOORE: Well, there`s two other outrageous things here. One is that, you know, we just passed out these big loan guarantees for a lot of these bad mortgages that the banks hold right now, Glenn. Now what do you think the banks are going to do?
They`re going to take the absolute worst loans that they have in their portfolio, the ones that are most likely to default and they say, "Here, Uncle Sam. Here, take these loans." So we`re going to be stuck with huge costs.
Here is the other outrage. You mention that the federal budget deficit is going to $490 billion, a record, next year. Glenn, that does not even include any of the cost of this bailout.
BECK: I know. Of course not.
MOORE: So we could be looking at a trillion dollars.
BECK: I know, I know. OK.
So there is something else, and please tell me that I`m insane. And I read this wrong. In this bill, there`s like a $7,500 tax incentive for first-time home buyers? What?
SCHIFF: Yes. I mean, we don`t need to encourage people to buy homes. And all this does is prop up home prices. Because if people have tax credits, then they can bid more for homes. It benefits the seller. It doesn`t benefit the buyer. It just means that he overpays, because now he has a government credit.
We need to let home prices collapse. They never should have gotten to the levels they got to. But unfortunately, lower home prices expose all the losses.
MOORE: Peter, there`s one other aspect of this. It`s outrageous. Is that they also -- the same time they`re bailing out these agencies, they increase the amount of loans that they can now insure, Glenn. So now...
BECK: Oh, you are kidding me.
MOORE: ... homes over $650,000 can get -- get loan guarantees. And by the way, this program is supposed to help moderate income home buyers. How many moderate income home buyers can afford a $650,000 house?
SCHIFF: That`s -- that`s just the mortgage. That`s not the whole value of the house.
BECK: Let me ask -- let me ask both of you this question. I saw a story today about Amex. And that Amex -- Amex generally has the creme-de- la-creme for people who have money and have a credit card, because you have to pay it off in 30 days. They say they`re starting to see the people being 30 days late or longer start to rise up, and people are spending less.
Well, if I`ve got Visa -- I know the average person -- I mean, how do you afford the gas that you`re putting into your car if you`ve been living paycheck to paycheck? What you`ve most likely done is you`ve taken your Visa out and went, "I have no other choice, man. I`m going to run that up to the max because of the price of gas."
When those things start to fail -- Visa, MasterCard, American Express -- does the government come in again and say too big to fail?
SCHIFF: That`s the next bail out. And you know, the incentive to the average American is max out every credit card you have, because you might as well go out with a bang, especially if there`s a bail out.
SCHIFF: That`s the problem. We spent too much money. We spent money we didn`t have. We`ve got to stop doing that. We`ve got to have a recession. But the government doesn`t want the recession. It wants to keep reflating the bubble. It wants us to go deeper into debt.
BECK: OK. Guys...
MOORE: They`re causing the recession with their big overspending in their debt. Washington is causing this recession.
BECK: That`s why -- you know what? That`s why people have been sending me the pitch forks. Look at this one. It`s hand made. Oh, yes.
MOORE: I love it.
BECK: All right, guys. Thanks a lot.
Coming up, as defaulting homeowners get the bailout, small business with good credit, they can`t get a loan. I`ll explain what I told you was coming about a year ago. Why it`s harder for small businesses to keep their doors open. Coming up.
Plus, breaking news in two border agents who are in prison for simply doing their job. We`ll have the latest on agents Ramos and Compean, coming up.
BECK: Well, coming up, illegal immigration may be a dead issue for the candidates -- gee, I wonder why -- but it`s still one of the biggest problems facing our country today.
Well, we have newly disclosed details about a factory raid that happened back in May, and it proves what I`ve been saying on this program forever, that illegal immigrants working in America today are nothing short of modern-day slaves. Wait until you hear the details. And where the hell is our government at? That`s tonight`s "Real Story."
But first, I hate to say I told you so. Oh, no. Yes, actually, I do kind of like to say it. Although this time I wish I hadn`t been right, but I usually am. For the last year I`ve been saying how the banking and mortgage crisis is going to hurt small business by denying them loans. They`re going to sit there and hold onto their money and not loan it out.
Well, look what`s happening. Commercial and industrial and short-term loans saw the largest decline since the last recession in 2001. As banks are trying to recover from their multibillions that they have lost in the mortgage crisis, they`re saying no now to loans for profitable, expanding and healthy small businesses.
We cannot, in this country, lose sight that 70 percent of all business in this country is small business. They are the engines of this economy. They`re the people that are creating new jobs, not these giant global corporations.
When they are prevented from growing, these small businesses, that means they cannot create more jobs. It slows down the economy, and the whole thing starts all over again. So while the government is propping up some bad home loans and sending out rebate checks and holding up these giant global banks, the life blood of our marketplace is hemorrhaging.
Drew Greenblatt, he is the president of Marlin Steel Wire Products. It`s a small business based in Baltimore. Drew, what does your business do?
DREW GREENBLATT, PRESIDENT, MARLIN STEEL WIRE PRODUCTS: We make wire forms and baskets in Baltimore, Maryland. The wire form looks something like this, and a basket looks like this. For industrial applications like Toyota and Siemens.
BECK: OK. For the last five or six years you guys have had double- digit growth. You`re a company that has been exploding and expanding and everything else. You just received one of the largest contracts you`ve ever received. You can`t get a loan.
GREENBLATT: It`s very frustrating. We were so happy when we got our biggest order in company history on July 11. And then we got a bigger order, actually, on July 15. We were just doing the funky chicken. And what did we do next?
We called up our bank, and we said, "We need to borrow some more money so we can buy a robot so we can make these clients happy." And I`ve been nonplussed about how fast this process is going. We need this robot in here so we can hire some more people and we can make our ship dates.
BECK: I`ve always said all the trouble starts with the robots. It`s just me. I saw those Japanese movies.
With the dollar so low -- as low as it is now, this is actually providing -- there`s a good time for small business in America that makes something like you guys make, right? Because everybody -- where it`s cheap now to buy our stuff.
GREENBLATT: We are on a 50 percent off sale. American factories have 50 percent off of what our foreign competitors have.
GREENBLATT: And that`s because of the currency.
GREENBLATT: We want to take advantage of that.
BECK: All right. So, Drew, how does a company like yours, a small business, actually survive when you can`t get a loan from the bank, when you`ve got a new president coming in who, either way, one of them is much worse than the other on taxes, but they`re both saying, you know, taxes, both of them have a plan now, and they`re not going to stop the EPA from taxing a company like yours. Anybody that puts out more than 100 tons of carbon a year, you`re going to receive more taxes on that. Plus universal health care. How do you survive?
GREENBLATT: It`s rough. The way we have to do it is be very innovative, ship very fast and give great quality. That`s the only way we`re going to be able to beat the Taiwanese, the Chinese, the French, the Germans.
BECK: OK. Drew, thanks a lot. Now, let me check in with Lloyd Chapman. He is the president of America`s Small Business League.
Lloyd, most people don`t even understand. Most people don`t even understand small business in America. They don`t even understand that 70 percent. These are the job creators, right?
LLOYD CHAPMAN, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN SMALL BUSINESS LEAGUE: Absolutely. In fact, the U.S. Census Bureau says 98 percent of all U.S. firms have less than 100 employees. And those companies employee, oh, about 60 percent of our nation`s population.
BECK: OK. Is it true these global corporations haven`t created a new American job since the 1970s?
CHAPMAN: That`s correct. About 95 percent of all new jobs in America are created by companies with less than 100 employees.
BECK: OK. So help me out on this one, Lloyd. I look at what`s going on in our country and, you know, big business -- I mean, the No. 1 business now in our country is the financial sector.
BECK: So big business, these global banks that somehow or another were smart enough to become a global bank but couldn`t figure out that, you know, Bill, who works at the movie theater, shouldn`t by a $2 million house.
So there -- the government is in bed with big business and the financial sector. These global corporations are also in bed with the government. Where does the little guy come in? Where is the guy who doesn`t have somebody up, you know, in Wall Street or doesn`t have somebody, you know, in Washington, D.C., you know, saying, "Hey, Congress, help us out. Cut us a little slack."
What does the little guy do?
CHAPMAN: The little guy is out of luck. The only agency in Washington that`s there to help small businesses is the Small Business Administration. And that agency has had their budget cut to the point that I`ve had executives tell me that they can barely keep the lights on.
So you had a good point, Glenn. You were talking about how the government is investing so much money in propping up all these big business. In the reality here in America, most Americans work for small businesses. That`s where all the new jobs come from, and that`s where the country should be investing money.
But I don`t know if you`ve seen that, but in the last -- oh, I guess, five years about 12 federal investigations have come out and found that up to $100 billion a year by federal funds that by law should be going to small businesses have been diverted to Fortune 500 corporations. There was a story just week from the Department of the Interior that showed that that agency diverted $1 million to Fortune 500 corporations, even companies in Europe. So, you know, one thing that`s...
BECK: On what? Why are we sending money over to European companies?
CHAPMAN: Well, you know, that`s a good question. But you know, today while you and I are talking, our government is giving federal small business contracts not only to Fortune 500 corporations but some of the biggest companies in Europe.
Again, there`s been 12 federal investigations into it. And it`s been -- it`s been on most of the major television networks, and it`s been in all the major newspapers. I do about 30 radio shows. I`m talking about it, but there`s been no legislation.
So two things we need here in America for small businesses is we need the Small Business Administration budget restored and probably how that agency`s budget quadrupled. And then we need legislation to stop the federal government from giving small business contracts to Fortune 500 companies, because that`s where most Americans work.
BECK: Thanks, a lot. And I just have to apologize now real quick, before we go on break, you know, to all the Nielsen families. Because just put your hands over your ear, because don`t switch the channel. Because it`s going to be very hard not to.
I don`t know if anybody has seen John Adams special on HBO. The guys here on the set have been saying forever, "Oh, you`ve got to watch this, Glenn. You`ve got to watch it." I watched it. It should be a requirement for every single American to watch this.
You`ll understand. You`ll see this stuff. It`s the same crap they were doing in the 1800s and 1700s. The same crap. The same crazy politicians making the same stupid moves and getting into bed with big banks and big businesses, and screw the little people. Watch the HBO special of John Adams.
All right. Coming up, we`ve got more bad news. Our wrongfully imprisoned border agents, Nacho and -- Nacho Ramos and Jose Compean, they have -- they`ve had some bad news. We`ll deal the latest details to you next.
Plus, the new "Dark Knight" movie, is it actually about President Bush? Yes, that`s what one writer says. I`m not convinced, but stick around. Decide for yourself.
BECK: I have some bad news for you. U.S. border agents Ramos and Compean are this country`s first political prisoners. They were wrongly sent to jail for bravely trying to keep drug smugglers out of this country. They didn`t get commendations for their acts. Instead, they got over a decade in prison each.
New development in the case, and let`s go to Tara Setmayer, communications director for Congressman Dana Rohrabacher.
Bad news today.
TARA SETMAYER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR DANA ROHRABACHER: Yes. It`s pretty devastating news. The Fifth Circuit finally ruled after 7 1/2 months, and they`ve ruled, affirming all charges, except for the tampering with evidence charge. But the big one, which is the ten-year gun sentence, has been upheld.
BECK: Unbelievable, Tara. Absolutely -- no. Expected, especially with how long it`s -- how long it`s taken. But unbelievable. You just got off the phone with Nacho, right?
SETMAYER: I did. I actually have calls scheduled with him every other Monday, status calls from prison to make sure that everything is going OK. And today happened to be my scheduled call, and we got the decision about 20 minutes before that call. And I have to tell you that that was one of the most difficult calls I ever had to make in my life.
BECK: What did he say?
SETMAYER: He was crushed. Obviously upset. He was concerned about his boys, his children. He has three boys. You know, he wanted to know, Tara, what can you do to get me out of here? Can you get me out of segregation?
People have to remember that he is in solitary confinement, and both him and Compean have been serving a double sentence, essentially, in solitary confinement for a year and a half. And the Bureau of Prisons has claimed that it`s for their protection. But we already know that they could be moved into a prison camp if the bureau -- the director of the Bureau of Prisons moves them. And that`s going to be our next push, is to get them out of this hellhole of solitary confinement.
BECK: I have to tell you something. On my cell phone, here is a picture someone somebody sent me of Bush eating a kitten. I mean, I don`t know why people mess with this kind of stuff when I really, truly believe, if Congress were serious, if the Democrats really wanted to find something on Bush, this is it. There is it. There is something dirty going on in this government.
SETMAYER: You`re right.
BECK: And I`ve got to tell you. Either the Democrats are dumb as a box of rocks, which probably are, or they`re in on it, but this is a dirty case from start to finish.
SETMAYER: It is. And I can tell you that we`ve been pushing really hard to have hearings. You know, people please ask Congressman Conyers, chairman of the judiciary committee, to hold hearings into Johnny Sutton and this prosecution.
Remember, Ramos and Compean are not the only victims. You had Gary Brugman, Gilmer Hernandez, Noe Alamon (ph), now Ramos and Compean. And this is not justice in America. I have to tell you, Glenn, I talked to my boss, and I had to let him know. He`s in California en route back to D.C. tonight, and he was visibly shaken. He -- he is so outraged. This is the biggest travesty in justice he`s seen in his 30 years in Washington, D.C.
It`s really tough to comprehend how the president of the United States can allow this on his conscience, knowing that these families and these children of these men and these two brave guys are in solitary confinement because of his buddy, U.S. attorney, Johnny Sutton, the prosecution (ph).
BECK: Tara, you tell me. I`d like to have you and maybe Congressman Rohrabacher on with us tomorrow and see what`s next. What do we do? What do we do? This cannot be tolerated anymore.
SETMAYER: No, it can`t. And I can tell you that the members of Congress who have been advocates for these gentlemen will definitely be mobilizing. This is all happening as we talk.
SETMAYER: So we will take action. We will not let this stand.
BECK: Tara, thanks a lot.
Now, new details on the raid on a meat-packing pack in Iowa proves what I`ve been saying all along: illegal immigration is nothing more than modern-day slavery. Why are we tolerating it? That`s tonight`s "Real Story," next.
BECK: Coming up, if Batman could vote, which he can`t because the Republicans need identification, would he vote for John McCain? As ridiculous as that question may sound it`s been suggested that "Dark Knight" is actually a conservative movie about the war on terror. I`ll explain in just a minute.
But first, welcome to "The Real Story." During the presidential campaign, the candidates like to control what should and shouldn`t be in the news. But if you haven`t been sending in your basement campaign bunker since 2005 plotting and planning, then a better way to judge these candidates might be just to look at what they are not talking about.
Think about it. I`ve got kids. You got kids? Worse thing you can hear from your kids when they`re playing in the other room is silence. That is when you both look at each other and go, "Oh, crap, what are they doing?"
That is what politicians are like. When they stop talking, panic. Actually, I don`t mean to compare them to 6-year-old kids because that is an insult to 6-year-old kids.
So with just 100 days left to go in the election, what major national issue has been almost completely ignored by both campaigns; illegal immigration. Why? Well, if you started thinking like a political strategist who lives in his mother`s basement you`d begin to see "The Real Story."
And here it is. Illegal immigration is a no-win issue for a candidate who`s just trying to score points with more than just their zombie base. And zombie bases don`t win presidential elections. There is no better illustration of this than what is been happening right now in the little town of Postville, Iowa.
Last May, federal immigration agents raided a kosher meat packing plant there; arrested 389 illegal workers, many of whom were sentenced to five months in prison and then they`re going to be deported. Why are we having them stay here another five months? But that`s a different story.
That ticked off people on the left, specifically the immigrant advocacy groups like the unions who aren`t profiting off the backs of these people and the ACLU who are sick of workers being made into villains.
Then the feds arrested, yes, count them, three of the company`s supervisors. That ticked off some people on the right, specifically business groups like the Chamber of Commerce who`s saying, the companies, it`s not their fault. Workers come in and give them fake identification.
Meanwhile, everybody is pointing fingers at itself and the company is still in business. And that ticks me off and I think it ticks you off along with everybody else who is sick of talking about the left and the right and we would rather focus on an outdated little concept called right and wrong.
McCain and Obama may not want to alienate their bases, who I can`t figure who out these two nut jobs, who their base really is. But they ignore the illegal immigration just to win an election but they`re also ignoring one group of people who may not have a vote; who are the real face of our national incompetence of this issue -- the illegal aliens themselves.
Like many of those 389 arrested who were arrested in Iowa, they have been turned into nothing more than modern-day slaves. Jeff Abbas is a reporter for KPVL Radio in Iowa.
Jeff, I find this story unbelievably reprehensible. They were hiring kids as young as 13 years old to work in this meat packing plant, right?
JEFF ABBAS, KPVL RADIO, IOWA: Glenn, we saw them standing up on the floor of the community room in St. Brigit`s church here in Postville Saturday afternoon. There were six kids. All six of them told their story, how they started working at Agra Processor.
The most impressive one and the most heartbreaking one was a young lady who said she feared for her job in the first two months because she could not keep up the physical strength to stay on top of what she had to do, 12 hours a day, six days a week. She was 15 years old at the time.
BECK: I read some of the stories you had. Women who said they were falling into sexual abuse. Can you outline any of that?
ABBAS: I can`t, Glenn, without any certainty. The allegations there are cloudy and murky at best. And it did essentially come to light after some of the other allegations did.
One of the most difficult things for me to figure out here is, as you said earlier, why the companies aren`t being punished. The Social Security Administration was aware of these discrepancies in the social security numbers at Agra Processors since 2002.
Here`s an example, in 2007 they received no match information from the Social Security Administration for Agra Processors. 833 employees were suspected of using invalid social security numbers or social security numbers belonging to other real people; 833 out of about 900.
BECK: A clerical error. They can`t be held responsible for that.
Jeff, thank you, sir. We`ll keep in touch with you.
Let me go to Tom Tancredo and talk to him. Tom, I have to tell you. These companies should be shut down for good. The people who run them should be thrown into prison.
We have these illegal immigrants now sitting in prison for what? For being slaves? They should be sent home so the taxpayer no longer has to pay for them. Send them home and make those beds available for the companies.
REP. TOM TANCREDO, (R) COLORADO: Well, I certainly don`t disagree with you for a moment about the company and what should be done there. And if we did that more often, believe me it would have a chilling effect on the rest of American enterprise. That is exactly what it should have.
If you break the law, especially as egregiously as this company apparently has, then you should be punished for it. The people involved with it should be punished. The company should suffer as a result of it.
Now, if you are going to apply this, of course, and I think we should. I think we should be saying that all laws should be observed. If you break any of these laws you`ll be punished for it.
BECK: Why are you such a hate-monger?
TANCREDO: I know.
BECK: There he goes again. Let`s live by all the laws. God, that is so old fashioned.
TANCREDO: I know it`s pretty old-fashioned. I don`t know I`m stuck there for some reason. By the way, Glenn, I can`t tell if it is the truth about how many of these people who are in jail, but I will tell that you a lot of them who are in jail are not in jail for simply being here illegally. I guarantee you.
They are here in jail almost certainly because of identity theft. They have stolen somebody else`s social security number. That is the only time somebody is going to actually end up in prison as a result of this activity.
BECK: Tom, let me go back. Look if you set this up and that`s what corporate America has done, they have set this system up hand in hand with our sanctuary cities and our United States government.
TANCREDO: Yes. Yes.
BECK: They set this system up now somebody comes in and utilizes this system, okay, they should pay a penalty for it. Are you kidding me? The real villain here is these evil -- I mean it, evil corporations that are enslaving people.
TANCREDO: Well, I can`t agree with you more about the way we should treat these companies that are doing this. This seems to be a really extraordinary situation there with the kind of work conditions that I`ve heard described here.
And believe me, again, all laws, all labor laws and laws with regard to minimum wage and also age requirements, all of those laws should be enforced as well as laws against coming into this country illegally. Going to do it; do it right. Do it to everybody and then you get respect of the citizenry when they think the laws are being applied fairly.
It`s only when they see the sporadic, we are going to do it here and do it there, but not really because the Chamber of Commerce is very powerful; absolutely true. I`ve always said in Congress I had two huge problems dealing with this issue.
One is the Democratic Party that saw illegal immigrants as a source of voters and the other was the Republican Party that saw illegal immigrants as a source of cheap labor.
BECK: Meanwhile everybody else is in between.
Tom thank you very much for your services to this country.
TANCREDO: You bet.
BECK: I have to tell you. Let me just -- to bring you up to date on something. Remember last week I had the family on from Utah, and they were from Great Britain and everything else and I said I was going to look into it. I did.
Unfortunately there is a loophole in the law and until that loophole is fixed I can`t do anything about or it because I can`t argue for somebody to get an exception in the law and say we got to enforce the law elsewhere.
The law on immigration is broken. I`ve been trying to wake people up to the fact that those people who are coming in here as illegals; this is modern-day slavery.
Well, there`s somebody else who actually had this exact idea. He has been on this now for the last five years writing a book. He`s Benjamin Skinner. He`s the author of "A Crime So Monstrous, Face-to-Face with Modern Day Slavery."
Ben, thank you for being on this story. I`m tired of being called a racist and bigot. What I`ve been saying forever; slavery. Tell me about the conditions that compare to slavery.
BENJAMIN SKINNER, AUTHOR, "A CRIME SO MONSTROUS": Sure. First of all, when I talk about slavery I define the term very carefully and we should always do that. It`s people that are forced to work under threat of violence for no pay beyond subsistence. And by that definition there are more slaves in the world today than at any point in human history.
And on average, in the United States -- right here in the United States -- over the course of your program which lasts one hour, two people will be taken into slavery right here in the United States.
BECK: Ok. Be if you have somebody, Ben, and here`s my problem. You have these people coming in, promise of a better future and having a job and everything else. They take that job. They`ve got to work 17 hours for it.
One kid was 13 or 15 years old. Cut his arm in a meat packing plant cleaning out the guts of these animals. Went to the hospital, came back, was told to work, it busted open. They gave him a band-aid and said keep working. They guy has no other opportunity. It is not the dictionary definition of slavery, but it`s as close as you can possibly get.
SKINNER: Well, listen. This is a case where I think the Justice Department needs to take a more active approach in prosecuting the violators. There`s no question that if all that their convicted of, if all of these three connected, the officials in Agra Processors are convicted of is harboring, they are getting off with a slap on the wrist.
One thing that hasn`t been mentioned is the allegations that some of these workers were tied up. One said he was duct taped and beaten.
SKINNER: I mean, this is not normal labor. This sounds to me very much like slavery.
SKINNER: And the aggressive investigation needs to happen.
BECK: So, Ben, how is it that somebody who says, look, you are taking people and you are doing this to them. This is not compassionate. There`s a reason Americans won`t do these jobs. You`d go to jail if you were telling people to do this and treating feel like that.
So how is it that when you point things out and say, look, these companies need to go to jail if they are in this, how come that`s not catching on with the American people. Why don`t people see that as a compassionate argument?
SKINNER: Well, because I think as you were pointing out in the beginning of this segment, the discourse on this is so polarized. On one side you have everybody saying these are all illegal immigrants. We should toss them all out and not worry about their human rights at all. On the other side you have people saying these are all slaves.
The truth is somewhere in between. What needs to happen is good police work, good investigations and eventually good aggressive prosecution of the violators in this instance.
BECK: Unfortunately, Benjamin, that would take a good Justice Department, a good administration and good Congress; fresh out of those.
That`s "The Real Story" tonight.
Coming up, could Batman be a conservative? I`ll explain why some are calling "Dark Knight" a theatrical depiction of the war on terror. Guess who`s behind the mask? Don`t want to miss it, next.
BECK: Batman, "The Dark Knight" now taking in over $314 million in just ten days; got to be kidding me. You are not going to see "Mama Mia?"
This makes Batman the fastest movie ever to reach the $300 million mark and the popularity of the movie. People are embracing the themes and people love it.
But if you actually stop to think about what the themes are. Andrew Klaven, he is the author of "Empire of Lies" and he wrote a fantastic op-ed for "The Wall Street Journal" with his take on what Batman is really teaching us.
Andrew you are saying, Batman good, Bush Batman.
ANDREW KLAVEN, AUTHOR "EMPIRE OF LIES": That`s about it. It is actually pretty blatant. It is very obvious. It didn`t take a lot of deep thinking. I mean Batman has to fight a terrorist, has to stoop to violence to fight a violent terrorist; has to use some surveillance techniques that kind of push the boundaries of civil rights.
But the most important correlation is that Batman has to sacrifice his popularity and become hated and despised by the very people he protects. That is the most poignant thing about the movie and it`s the most poignant thing about the Bush administration.
BECK: You don`t actually think that the writers actually -- were writing it that way?
KLAVEN: You know, I actually do think that they were thinking about the issue of terrorism, they call the Joker a terrorist. And they were thinking about issues of surveillance and civil rights and they couldn`t help but really put Batman in that situation. It is a post-9/11 film.
BECK: I`m sorry. I`m so riddled with ADD. Are you sitting a long way away from that bookcase or are you in a children`s library? Those look like very small books.
KLAVEN: I only read very small books. I don`t have a lot of time.
BECK: It`s like a bathroom reader library that you`re sitting in front of. You printed this article because it`s true. It`s conservative, the message is the same in every superhero movie, it`s Spider-Man, it`s Batman, it`s "Lord of the Rings."
KLAVEN: It`s very strange.
BECK: You watch them and think, wow, this really kind of is what I believe in. It is always fiction. There is never a single Hollywood movie where they will be that clear about right and wrong, good and evil outside of fiction.
KLAVEN: There is no question about it that Conservatives have to wear a mask in Hollywood. As you`re saying, anytime we make a film with straight-forward conservative values, it is a fantasy film.
When we make realistic films, especially about the war on terror, suddenly they come up with this stuff like in the Valley of Elah and rendition, redaction. Even the names of the pictures sound the same.
They walk in this terrible lockstep ideology where America is as bad as the terrorists, our soldiers are the bad guys and our soldiers are abusive, instead of the truth. They have to put on a mask to tell the simple truth which is that we are the good guys and they are the bad guys.
BECK: "Lone Survivor" is coming out. Did you read "Lone Survivor" by any chance?
KLAVEN: I have not. No I haven`t.
BECK: Oh, you`ve never read that. Andrew, you would love it. It is coming out as a movie. They`re making it now into Hollywood and it`s about Seal Team Ten. All of them died except for one.
KLAVEN: Right. I remember the story.
BECK: It is an amazing story. I`m just, if I were in Hollywood and I were making that story and the guy who survived and fought off 200 members of Al Qaeda, I`m wondering if I screw the story up how long it is before I start looking over my shoulder for Marcus Latrell in the middle of the night.
KLAVEN: One can only hope. They have made story after story of abusive soldiers, soldiers raping Iraqi women and not one about all the soldiers, the much greater majority of soldiers who have done heroic things suppressing this vicious ideology in helping these people become free.
BECK: You realize that you`re going to -- I mean, you have to be a pariah. You have done so many things in Hollywood and everybody loved you until you came out said, "You know what, here is the deal." In your new book, "Empire of Lies," which by the way, I hear is doing very well.
KLAVEN: Yes. Thanks to you and your viewers.
BECK: Thanks to the viewers. In "Empire of Lies" you take it say, look, this is what Conservatives are. Let`s be a Conservative and let`s just say it out loud.
KLAVEN: I think it`s really important, I think it is so important in the arts that we start to get out of the straitjacket of this ideology because the ideology does not describe real life. And one of the things an artist has to do is describe the experience of being human in the real world.
BECK: You know what real life doesn`t express real life anymore. Barack Obama was in Germany last week saying this wall and you know if we would all come together more walls will come down.
Excuse me, the reason why Germany is free is because we kicked Germany`s ass, and then we scared the Soviet Union, and ran them into bankruptcy. That`s why the wall came down. Not love and flowers and peacenicks.
Andrew, thanks a lot. We`ve got to run. I`m sorry, up against a break. We`ll have you back.
Coming up, how I personally -- and you don`t have to call me a hero, you don`t have to -- you may -- how I personally saved thousands of horses from being shot and killed -- it`s the kind of guy I am. It`s how I roll. I`ll explain next.
BECK: You might think of me as the guy on TV that yells about the coming apocalypse. Sometimes I don`t yell it though, it`s coming. But I`m much more than just that. I`ve been self-awarded with numerous trophies celebrating my own accomplishments in the field of humane animal treatment.
Today, yet another breakthrough - saving horses` lives. That`s what I do. This is a clip from my radio show May 5th of this year.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BECK: I mean Eight Bells was, you know, getting ready to celebrate the second place and then she broke her ankles and was - this is what they said. They had no other choice but to euthanize the horse.
Now I would like to ask you is it not 2008 in America? I`m not a horse whisperer or anything but I am a thinker. Isn`t it time really that we stop killing these horses if they break an ankle? Isn`t it a little -- am I the only one that thinks in this day in age that that might be a tad extreme for a solution to this problem?
And I mean if it`s not, could we at least wait until we get the horse off of the track? I keep thinking about the kids that were like, I remember my first derby. I just think it`s -- there`s got to be a better way. It`s America, for the love of Pete.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BECK: All right, now you will say, oh, Glenn, please. You just keep identifying an injustice, no, no, I also had to overcome the doubters and then carefully craft a solution.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
BECK: Let me go to Nick. Hello, Nick.
NICK: Glenn, thanks for taking my call.
NICK: I just wanted to tell you I raise and show horses and have been involved with it all of my life. And as much as -- as bad as it does sound there isn`t anything they could do. I mean, we need to go back and look at what happened with Barbaro two years ago. They basically kept him alive for a year and then ended up euthanizing the horse.
BECK: Yes, but there is no way -- you are telling me no kind of like, prosthetic legs we could give these horses?
NICK: no I mean as much as we wish that there was, as much as I didn`t like the outcome it`s -- I mean -- it sounds grim.
BECK: Why can`t they just sit?
NICK: It doesn`t work that way.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BECK: I`m just saying, I`m just saying, ok; thinking of solutions. So what happens just a few months later despite big horse? Yes, suddenly we`re able to give horses prosthetic limbs. I wonder where that idea came from? Thanks to me and Dr. Theresa Medlocker or whatever her name is.
This horse Lovey here, walking again. I`m not looking for credit; just admiration. Give the credit to -- yes you know that doctor. That`s all.
By the way, remember to sign up for my me e-mail newsletter glennbeck.com. Every new signup saves a horse`s life.
From New York, good night.