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Court: Bush Aides Must Testify; Obama, McCain Address Town-Hall Meetings; Economic Decisions: Drive or Fly?
Aired July 31, 2008 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you can try to clam up. If you're a White House aid who knows something Congress wants to know, you at least -- at least have to show up. A major court ruling just came down in Washington.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Summer vacation dilemma, fly or drive? Lemon and I hit the road and the airports to settle things once and for all. And we didn't go alone. You'll see all our ups and downs this hour.
Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live in New York.
LEMON: And I'm Don Lemon, live here at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
PHILLIPS: Can't turn your back on Congress just because you've got the president's ear. That's the gist of a bombshell ruling from a federal judge in Washington in a historic fight between lawmakers and the White House.
Here's the issue: congressional subpoenas and whether presidential aides have to comply like almost everybody else. The Bush administration claims they don't, but a short time ago, a judge appointed by President Bush strongly disagreed.
The aides in question are former White House counsel Harriet Miers and current chief of staff Josh Bolten. The issue: the U.S. attorney purge of 2006. Nine federal prosecutors fired in what Democrats call a partisan shake-up.
We get more now from CNN White House correspondent Elaine Quijano -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, the White House is still reviewing this decision, according to White House press secretary Dana Perino. But you're absolutely right. This boils down to executive privilege and the question of whether or not top aides to the president are, in fact, legally immune from testifying before Congress.
Now the White House's argument has been that, in order for President Bush or any president to receive candid, unvarnished advice from the people around him, that those people need to be legally protected and not worried about being dragged up before Congress. Well, the judge in this case, Judge John Bates in U.S. district court disagreed. He ruled that the White House's position is, quote, "without any support in case law."
Now reaction on Capitol Hill, as you might expect, falls along party lines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We're very pleased with all of that.
And then we're pleased to have gotten the word, as I was walking in here, that the district court ruled that Harriet Miers should submit the documents to Congress. We don't have all the particulars of the case, but that is very good news for anyone who believes in the Constitution of the United States, the separation of powers, and the system of checks and balances.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), MINORITY LEADER: This is a political ruse that -- that so many Democratic chairmen have been involved in for some time. We'll let the courts sort it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now it is very likely that all of this will be appealed, and it is probably that the clock is going to run out on this. Why? Because the subpoenas that have been issued for Harriet Miers and Josh Bolten will expire when this Congress leaves office next year -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Elaine Quijano. We'll follow it. Appreciate it.
LEMON: Long-awaited news for U.S. troops in Iraq. Combat tours will be getting shorter.
Declaring al Qaeda is on the run in Iraq, President Bush today announced that, effective tomorrow, units heading to Iraq will serve 12-month tours of duty instead of 15 months. That doesn't apply to troops now serving in Iraq.
The president said the U.S. has enjoyed sustained progress in Iraq follow the troop surge that started last year. And he says all of the combat brigades sent to Iraq as part of the surge will now return home, although troop levels remain higher than before the surge. He also promised further troop reductions as conditions permit.
Most Americans seem to agree with President Bush that the Iraq troop surge has been successful, but they still, still want a timetable for withdrawal. Fifty-two percent of those interviewed for a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll said the surge has been a success, while only 41 percent called it a failure.
But 62 percent of people who were interviewed said the U.S. still should set a timetable for total withdrawal. Only 37 percent were against the timetable.
And happening right now, Senator Ted Stevens is in a federal court in Washington for his arraignment on corruption charges. The powerful Alaska Republican was indicted on Tuesday. He is accused of lying on financial disclosure forms to conceal thousands of dollars in gifts from an oil services contractor in his home state. He appeared yesterday in court for a pre-trial interview with court authorities.
Stevens, the longest serving Republican in the Senate, denies those charges.
PHILLIPS: Now, as part of our effort to help you make an informed choice in the presidential race, we're going to play more of what the candidates are saying on the campaign trail.
Let's go ahead and listen to what Democratic candidate Barack Obama had to say a short time ago as he spoke at a town hall in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... immediate assistance, because the problems that many of you are facing in your daily lives go beyond just recovering from a flood.
I've often said that this election is a defining moment in our history. You're working harder for less. Four hundred and sixty- eight thousand Americans have lost their jobs since the beginning of this year. We have the highest rate of foreclosure since the Great Depression, impacting communities all across the country. It's harder to save; it's harder to retire.
And the worst part is, is that I think a lot of Americans feel as if not only are things getting tougher for them right now, but they're worried about the future of their children and their grandchildren and whether they're going to be able to pass on a better America to them.
That's after all, what the American dream's all about. That's what the American dream has always been all about. That if you try, you can make it here in America. If you work hard, you can make it. And you don't just make it for yourself, but you're passing on a better life to the next generation. And that's what people are anxious about. They're not so sure right now.
And, given the seriousness of the issues, given the fact that the decisions that we make right now are going to help determine the future, not just of the next generation but perhaps generations after that; given the magnitude of our challenges when it comes to energy and healthcare and jobs and our foreign policy, you'd think that we'd be having a serious debate. But so far we -- all we've been hearing about is Paris Hilton and Britney Spears.
I mean, I do -- I do have to ask my opponent, is that the best you can come up with? Is that -- is that really what this election's about? Is that what is worthy of the American people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No!
OBAMA: Even the media has pointed out that Senator John McCain, who started off talking about running an honorable campaign, has fallen back into the predictable political attacks, the demonstrably false statements.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Now, that's just a piece of what Barack Obama has been talking about in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Live pictures now as he continues his town hall. If you want to continue watching this live, it's streaming on CNN.com. Meanwhile, we're also following it for you.
LEMON: Yes, we're also following this, Kyra, live. You can see it right here. Racine, Wisconsin, John McCain on stage now. When he begins to talk, we'll take it for you. His wife, Cindy McCain, making some introductions right here.
If you want to follow this live, as well, you can go to CNN.com/live, and we'll bring that to you. But John McCain speaking, holding a town hall in Racine, Wisconsin. As soon as he -- that happens, we'll bring it to you live, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Meantime, we want to know more about the leading vice- presidential contenders. CNN political unit, our political unit and CNNPolitics.com, we've assembled a primer for pros and cons of each. And if you're curious where CNN.com readers ranked the possible veep candidates, check out the Political Market. It's all at CNNPolitics.com.
PHILLIPS: President Bush says the answer to America's energy problems is right in our own back yard but not, at least for now, on Capitol Hill, where lawmakers still can't agree on offshore oil drilling or new rules on trading, or both, or neither.
This morning, the president went to West Virginia to talk about coal, which is not in short supply.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Two hundred and fifty years is -- should -- of reserves should say, gosh, we're in good shape. You know? We've got energy available, right here in the United States of America. This new technology will help us use those reserves. But we can also use nuclear power, too. I'm a big believer in civilian nuclear power. I think it makes a lot of sense.
People out there in the environmental community talk about the need for zero emission renewable fuel. There's one right there, called nuclear power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And back in Washington, the offshore oil drilling debate boils down to time: how quickly new oil could get to market and safety, and how big a risk it would pose to the ocean.
Now, Democrats favor a crackdown on oil market speculators, who essentially bet on future prices and cash in if they're right. Time's running out for Congress to do anything before the August recess, which prompted this, by the way, from one House Republican.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: The American people won't get a vacation from high gasoline prices, so Congress shouldn't take a vacation until we vote to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. The speaker won't keep the House in session to allow this vote. I urge President Bush to call an immediate energy special session of Congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Democrats accused Republicans of hiding their true motives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: This isn't about production, as Republicans keep, you know, wailing on the floor. This is about Republicans protecting record oil company profits, not production. This is not about giving help to the American consumer; it's about one last chance to give out more handouts to big oil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: The backdrop for today's back and forth: Exxon Mobil's announcement of the largest quarterly profit in U.S. history, almost $11.7 billion. Wall Street had expected more.
When it comes to placing blame for the energy mess, big oil is at the top of Americans' list. A CNN/Opinion Research poll says 68 percent of Americans says U.S. oil companies are a major cause of sky- high prices. Foreign oil producers come in a very close second, followed by speculators, demand from other countries, the Bush administration, the war in Iraq, the long-standing ban on offshore drilling, and Democrats in Congress.
LEMON: People are reported dead in the crash of a small plane in Minnesota. We're told the plane went down this morning in bad weather at or near the airport in Owatonna. That's south of Minneapolis.
Storms were moving through the area at the time. An FAA spokesperson -- spokeswoman says authorities believe the plane was in route from Atlantic City, New Jersey, to Minnesota and was to leave later for Crossville, Tennessee. We're expecting the first pictures from this scene very shortly here in the NEWSROOM. And we'll bring them to you just as soon as we have them. Well, something so horrific happened over night north of the border that we're having trouble comprehending it. This is unbelievable.
This is a remote section of the Trans Canada Highway in Manitoba. It's where witnesses say a Greyhound bus passenger viciously and repeatedly stabbed another man to death, and it didn't stop there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARNET CATON, WITNESS: Everybody got off the bus. Me and the trucker that stopped and the Greyhound driver ran up to the door to maybe see if the guy was still alive or we could help or something like that. And when we all got out, we seen that the guy was cutting off the guy's head. He was cutting off the guy's head there.
Then he saw us. He came back to the front of the bus, told the driver to shut the door. He pressed the button and the door shut, but it didn't shut in time, and the guy was able to get his knife out and take a swipe at us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Wow. Unbelievable.
Well, all the passengers ran out of the bus and waited for police, who took the man into custody. No word yet -- no word yet from Greyhound and no further details from Canadian police.
PHILLIPS: And a day in court for Radovan Karadzic. The former Bosnian Serb leader appears before a war crimes tribunal more than 13 years after his indictment. We're going to tell you what happened.
LEMON: And we keep hearing reports about cell phones and possible cancer risks. Well, we'll tell you what you can do to keep yourself out of harm's way.
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: All right, this is where I get stressed out. Not knowing how long the security lines are going to be.
LEMON: Did you see that guy cut us off?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: And the great race. Don and I take a trip to a vacation paradise. Well, sort of. I travel by air. Don hits the road. Travel with us to see who saves the most money.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Don Lemon. Surprise, surprise. Look at that. How would you like to go fishing and reel in that creature? It's a fish story you have to see to believe. Wow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: You're listening to Barack Obama live in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Now we want to take you to John McCain, holding a town hall in Racine, Wisconsin.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ... because of the system breeds corruption. We'll talk about it again.
I spoke up against the administration and Congress, who gave us another energy bill with more giveaways to big oil, but did nothing to free us from our dangerous dependence on foreign oil.
And you know, my friends, I haven't always won the title of Miss Congeniality in Washington every year because of that. Time and again, I've heard politicians, pundits, and pollsters warn me that my position on this or that issue would cost me the presidency, but I didn't answer to them. I answer to you. You will always know where I stand and that, no matter what, I will always, always do what I believe is right for our country. I promise you that.
We need -- we need to change the way the government does almost everything to the way we fuel our economy, to the way we prepare our children for tomorrow's opportunities; from the way we respond to disasters to the way we run our air traffic control system; from the way we secure our country against today's threats, the way that we anticipate the threats of tomorrow. All these functions of government were designed before the rise of the global economy, before the information technology revolution, and before the end of the Cold War.
We have a lot of work to do. And to get it done, we're going to have to have the strength to really change Washington.
And, my friends, Senator Obama is an impressive speaker, and the beauty of his words has attracted many people, especially among the young, to his campaign. I applaud his talent and his success. And all Americans should be proud of his accomplishment.
My concern with Senator Obama is that, on issues big and small, what he says and what he does are often two different things. And he doesn't seem to understand -- and he doesn't seem to understand that the policies he's offers -- that he offers will make our problems much worse and not better.
Senator Obama says he's going to change Washington, but his solution is to simply make government bigger. And raise your taxes to pay for it. We've been doing that for years, and it hasn't worked.
In the few years he's been in the Senate, he has requested nearly $1 billion in pork-barrel spending for his state. That's nearly $1 million for every day that he's been in office. My friends, I have never asked for nor received an earmark, pork-barrel project, for my state, and I never will. And I'll veto every single pork-barrel bill that comes across my desk. And you will know them. And frankly, my friends, you'll know their names, because I'll make them famous.
Senator Obama says he'll only raise taxes on the rich. But in the Senate, he voted for tax hikes that would have impacted those making just $32,000 a year. He's proposed tax increases on income taxes, capital gains taxes, dividends taxes. Pretty much anything you can tax, he wants to tax more.
My friends, on Social Security, he wants to raise Social Security taxes. My position -- and I am opposed to raising taxes, including Social Security taxes. Have no doubt about my opposition.
And that's a debate we should have openly in good faith. I hope I can convince Senator Obama that it's not a good idea to raise taxes on American families who are hurting today. And we all know they're hurting today. Raising taxes in a bad economy is about the worst thing, the worst thing you could do, because that would kill more jobs than we are already losing. We're already losing too many.
I'm going to keep current tax rates low and not -- and cut others, and not because I want to make the rich richer, but because it keeps jobs in America, and it creates new ones.
Senator Obama says that he wants energy independence, but he's opposed to new drilling at home. He's opposed to nuclear power. He's opposed to an innovation prize for electric cars. My friends, we must begin immediately in drilling offshore so we can get some of the oil that's off our own coast. We have to begin that drilling, and Senator Obama opposes it.
He said that the high cost of gasoline doesn't bother him, only that it rose too quickly. Yesterday, he suggested we put air in our tires to save on gas. My friends, let's do that, but do you think that's enough to break our dependence on Middle Eastern oil? I don't think so.
So I believe -- I believe that every energy source needs to be part of the solution. We need to develop new alternative energies like wind, solar, tide, biofuels. But we also need to develop more existing energies like nuclear power and clean coal. Nuclear power is safe. Clean coal technology is vital.
My friends, nuclear power is safe. There are some veterans here in this room who served -- who served on ships that had nuclear power plants. We sailed them around the world for more than 60 years, and we've never had an accident. And I can tell you that the French -- we always want to imitate the French, right? Eighty percent of their electricity is generated by nuclear power. And in case you missed it, we now have a pro-American president of France, which shows if you live long enough, anything can happen in the world and America.
But most importantly, most importantly, and you know this. But it's the compelling argument. We can't keep sending $700 billion a year to foreign countries that don't like us. And some of that money ends up in the hands of terrorist organizations. It's got to stop. And we will stop it. And we've got to stop it.
So we can do it. We can do it, my friends. We got to the moon in a shorter time than was predicted. We can do these things. America is capable of doing it, and those who say we can't, I say you don't know America like I know America. So we can do this together.
On Iraq, Senator Obama says he wants peace, but even today, he opposes the surge strategy that succeeded in Iraq and will succeed in Afghanistan. His policy of unconditional withdrawal, regardless of the facts on the ground, which our highest ranking military officer, Admiral Mullen, the chairman of joint chiefs of staff, said would be very dangerous, his policy could result in renewed violence and a third Iraq war.
I hate war. I know its costs better than many. I'm going to end this war, but when I bring our troops home, they will come home with victory, leaving Iraq secured as a democratic ally in the Arab heartland.
The bottom line is that Senator Obama's words, for all their eloquence and passion, don't mean all that much, and that's the problem with Washington. It's not just the Bush administration; it's not just the Democratic Congress; it's that everyone in Washington says whatever it takes to get elected or to secure the political future that they seek.
If Senator Obama doesn't have the strength to speak openly and directly about how he will address the serious challenges confronting America, how will he be strong enough to really change Washington? We don't need another politician in Washington who puts self-interest and political expediency ahead of problem solving. We need to start putting the country's interest first and come together. Come together to keep American families safe. And help them realize their dreams for a better life.
My friends, in war and in peace, I've been an imperfect servant of my country, but I've been her servant, first, last, and always. Whenever I faced an important choice between my country's interests or my own interests, party politics or any special interests, I chose my country. Nothing has ever mattered more to me than the honor of serving America, and nothing ever will.
If you elect me president, I will always, always put our country first. I will -- I will put its greatness, its prosperity and peace, and the hopes and concerns of the people who make it great, before any personal or partisan interest.
We're going to start making this government work for you and not for the ambitions or the interests of the powerful. And I will keep that promise every hour of every day that I'm in office, so help me God.
Thank you and thank you for being here. And now I'm ready to respond to your questions or comments. And thank you again for all your...
PHILLIPS: Barack Obama and John McCain both holding town-hall meetings, Barack Obama in Cedar Rapids, Iowa; John McCain here, holding a town-hall meeting in Racine, Wisconsin. Talking a lot about the economy, gas prices, the energy.
Gloria Borger joining us now in Washington, D.C.
Gloria, didn't hold back from taking any jabs at Barack Obama when it comes to gas prices and energy. You can kind of see that the tension and the sarcasm and the jabs stepping up here as we get closer to the big day this fall.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it is stepping up, and there's also a story brewing here in Washington that Senator McCain did not refer to in his initial remarks, and that is a statement has been released by his campaign manager today, talking about some comments that Barack Obama made the other day in Missouri and charging that Barack Obama has played the race card.
This is Rick Davis speaking, the campaign manager, "and he played it from the bottom of the deck. It's divisive, negative, shameful, and wrong."
PHILLIPS: Right. Since you're bringing that up, Gloria. Let's go ahead, and we'll get back to what McCain is talking about right now, I guess, in a second. We'll talk about the energy and the economy.
BORGER: Sure.
PHILLIPS: You're saying that the buzz is the whole race card incident.
BORGER: Yes.
PHILLIPS: Let's go ahead and listen to the comments that Barack Obama said yesterday in Missouri.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: That's not the debate we're getting out of John McCain right now. He's spending an awful lot of time talking about me. You notice that? I haven't seen an ad yet where he talks about what he's going to do.
And the reason is is because those folks know they don't have any good answers. They know they've had their turn over the last eight years and made a mess of things. They know that you're not real happy with them. And so the only way they figure they're going to win this election is if they make you scared of me.
So what they're saying is, well, we know we're not very good, but you can't risk electing Obama. You know, he's new, he doesn't look like the other presidents on the currency, he --
(APPLAUSE)
-- You know, he's got a funny name.
(LAUGHTER)
And that's basically the argument, he's too risky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: All right, Gloria, what's your take? John McCain -- says he's pulling the race card here.
Is this pulling the race card?
BORGER: Well, not according to the Obama campaign. When these comments came out from Rick Davis this morning, the Obama campaign said and let me quote this, "Barack Obama in no way believes that the McCain campaign is using race as an issue. But he does believe they are using the same old low road politics to distract voters from the real issues."
This is something, by the way, that Barack Obama has said many times. The most recently, I believe, or more directly in Jacksonville on the 20th of June where he did say, and I remember we used this clip talking about, and by the way, I'm black.
However, I will tell you that my colleague Dana Bash and I received phone calls this morning from folks in the McCain camp who say that Obama has insinuated that the McCain campaign and indeed John McCain himself is a racist, that they're outraged by it. And that they cannot let this go unremarked upon. And so it's clear that you have a fight brewing, at least as the McCain campaign wants to have the fight and take it on directly.
PHILLIPS: Yes. And the question is, is he just -- is Barack Obama laying out the facts, here? Or, is he pulling out the race card? I was talking to Roland Martin, you know, one of our analysts here. He's got a talk radio show.
And here's -- you know, Obama is saying, you know, I don't look like the other presidents on those dollar bills. And, yes, folks are saying I've got a funny name. But we've heard the mistakes made between Obama, Osama. We've seen all the caricatures and the fun that's been poked at that.
Isn't he just laying out what's already been said? The truth?
BORGER: Right. And where you stand depends on where you sit, obviously.
And I think that -- this is the McCain campaign we have seen this week is going on the offensive. They had that ad that everyone was talking about yesterday, saying that Barack Obama is a celebrity, right? That Barack Obama is not as serious as John McCain, the implication being. This is just one more way, I think, that the McCain campaign is attacking Obama, trying to define him. They say very strongly, at least they did to me on the telephone today, they're not the ones playing the race card, that Obama's the one playing the race card. The Obama campaign says, come on, we're not playing the race card here, we're just stating the obvious. We do look different from other presidents.
But you know, this is going to be the subtext of this campaign from now on going forward because we're now talking about it.
PHILLIPS: It's interesting, last night I was with a group of journalists and everybody had a different opinion about this. But the consensus was, here we go. As we get closer, it's going to get more nasty, more dirty. We're going to see a lot of surprises and it's going to continue to be a tight race.
BORGER: And what's interesting is that I think that this is where the voters start to turn off, Kyra.
Because I think the voters believe that on both sides during the primary season there was a substantive debate going on about where the candidates stood on the issues, how to differentiate all of these candidates. And now, I think, we're getting into a season, at least before we get to the conventions and then we get to those presidential debates. Where is the candidates are each trying to define the other.
And it's clear that what Obama is saying is that John McCain is just going to go negative on me because he doesn't have any policies he wants to talk about because he doesn't want to talk about Bush. And so we're going to see this back and forth continuing.
PHILLIPS: Gloria Borger, live from D.C. Appreciate it.
BORGER: Sure.
LEMON: All right. We want to get you now to some developing news. Senator Ted Stevens in a federal court in Washington being arraigned on corruption charges.
Our Kelli Arena is standing by at the federal court live now, with what's going on.
Kelli, and what I'm hearing, not guilty he's pleading, correct?
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
As expected, Senator Stevens did plead not guilty. Actually his lawyer made the plea for him. Senator Stevens didn't utter a word during his time in the courtroom.
His lawyer Brendan Sullivan basically asked for two things. He said, number one, he was asking for a speedy trial. He wants to get this over and done with before the general election on November 3rd. And is asking the judge to try to speed things up to have that happen. The second thing is that he asked the judge if they could change the venue for this trial, have it held in Alaska. Brendan Sullivan, who is Senator Stevens lawyer said, that 90 percent of the witnesses were in Alaska. The events happened in Alaska and so he's arguing that the trial should be held in Alaska.
Right now, we're actually in a break, we're going to go back into the courtroom in a few minutes. The judge is actually looking at his calendar, conferring with his staff to see if he can actually accommodate the request, at least on the timing issue. He hasn't actually said anything about the change of venue issue.
Interestingly when the government was asked whether or not they had any intention of offering a plea deal to the senator, they said, no. That at this time they did not intend to offer a plea deal. And they didn't put any actual special restrictions on the senator either. They just said -- they just want him to surrender his passport, but that was it. They thought that you know, he could be released on his own reconnaissance and you know, go about business as usual.
So, we should get more in about 20 minutes or so, when I head back in. But that's where we stand right now, Don.
LEMON: Yes. And according to his attorneys, at least attorney Sullivan that you mentioned. He said, quote, "He'd like to clear his name before the election," Kelli, because he wants to run for re- election. He told the judge, he added, that it is not a complex case. It should be one that moves quickly.
ARENA: That's right. He did say that.
He said, look, you know, we've got I think he said 98 days before the election. Senator Stevens has a primary coming up. He said, this is not a complicated case. The judge sort of joked and said, ah, the proverbial easy case. But he said, no actually, I don't think it is. And even the government said that they thought that this -- the trial should last all about three weeks you know, in total. Even though they did say that they'd have like 30 or 40 witnesses. They estimated about a three-week trial.
So you know, not a lot of fireworks in there. But as I said, you know, we'll get more on this when they wrap up.
LEMON: OK. We'll get back to you as soon as they come out of that break.
Thank you very much for that. Kelli Arena.
PHILLIPS: U.S. Military contractors in Iraq are immune from prosecution. Iraqis say that has to end. We're going to tell you why the Pentagon strongly disagrees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far, not so bad. 30 --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Former Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic appeared before a war crimes tribunal today, looking more like we remember him without the long hair and beard that he used to have while on the run. Karadzic told the judge at the Hague, that he would defend himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALPHONS ORIE, WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL JUDGE: Mr. Karadzic, you are charged with one count of genocide under Article IV of the statute of the International Tribunal.
With one count of complicity and genocide under Article IV of the statute. With five counts of crimes against humanity under Article V of the statute. And with four counts of war crimes under Articles II and III of the statute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Karadzic was arrested Belgrade, 10 days ago. He refused to enter pleas to the 11 charges against him. And a member of his legal team said Karadzic will go on a hunger strike if not allowed to represent himself.
LEMON: Well, several times during his appearance today, Radovan Karadzic referred to a deal he claims to have made with Richard Holbrooke, the U.S. diplomat who helped broker the Balkan peace accords. And who was deeply involved in the Bosnian conflict from its onset.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RADOVAN KARADZIC, FMR. BOSNIAN SERB LEADER (through translator): ... must say this is a matter of life and death. If Mr. Holbrooke still wants my death and regrets that there is no death sentence here, I wonder if his arm is long enough to reach me here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Did Richard Holbrooke promise sanctuary from Radovan Karadzic?
Well, CNN's Fareed Zakaria asked him just a few minutes ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICHARD HOLBROOKE, DAYTON PEACE ACCORDS BROKER: ... of all the evil men of the Balkans, Milosevic, General Melodic, Karadzic, is the worst.
He was the intellectual architect of a racial hatred, which in its ambition, could be compared to the Nazis, although smaller numbers. He was responsible directly and indirectly for 300,000 deaths, 2 and-a-half million homeless. I met him only once, a 12-hour negotiation on September 13th, 1995, in which Milosevic was brought him to the negotiations. He was already indicted, we agreed to meet with him. I wouldn't shake his hand. We told him that night that if he didn't agree to stop the siege Sarajevo, we would intensify the bombing.
He went ballistic in the meeting, started screaming and yelling. Said he was going to call former President Jimmy Carter, his friend. I said, fine, we work for President Clinton, you call Carter, we're walking out and the bombing will intensify. He agreed that night to lifting the siege Sarajevo. We went on to Dayton, we didn't bring him to Dayton of course, because he was indicted. And then in July of 1996, I was sent back to the Balkans as a special envoy. It was in private life then, to get him out of public light.
He should have been arrested. His green Mercedes was parked in its parking spot outside his office in Bali, for six months after Dayton each day. The NATO commander at the time refused to arrest him even though he had the authority to do so. It was a terrible mistake. Kudos to the President Tadic of Serbia, for arresting him. A really life-threatening action by President Tadic. His great friend Zoran Dindic was murdered for sending Milosevic to the Hague. He was prime minister at the time.
So, in any case, Karadzic was still running the Serb part of Bosnia when I went back to the Balkans six months later. I negotiated a very tough deal. He had to step down immediately from both his posts as president of the Serb part of Bosnia and as head of his party. And he did so. But when he disappeared, he put out a piece of disinformation that I had cut a deal with him that if he disappeared we wouldn't pursue him. That was a completely false statement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And be sure to watch the full interview about Radovan Karadzic with former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., Richard Holbrooke on "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS." It airs Sunday at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
PHILLIPS: Now, this just into CNN. Our first pictures right now, of the deadly plane crash in Minnesota that we've been telling you about. At least seven people now are reported dead. These pictures coming into us from KARE, our affiliate there in Minneapolis.
We're told that the plane went down this morning in bad weather at or near the airport just south of Minneapolis. Now we've got live pictures via KARE. The storms were moving through that area at the time, we're told. And according to an FAA spokeswoman, authorities do believe that this plane was in route from Atlantic City, New Jersey, to Minnesota. And then it was to leave later for Crossville, Tennessee. We're expecting more live pictures throughout the morning and obviously, information regarding this plane crash.
We'll bring it to you and all the details, as soon as we have them.
LEMON: Unbelievable there.
OK. What is the preferred description? Is it black? Or is it African-American? It's a common question. Which do you think is correct? We'll try to answer it for you, here in the NEWSROOM.
PHILLIPS: And the industry says that cell phones are safe. But what about the vague warnings about radiation and other potential problems? We'll tell you what you need to know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: OK. So we got a new report just last week that cell phones could increase your cancer risk. Now a lot of people are asking, how can I make my cell phone safer?
CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen is here.
First of all, is there really a link between cell phones and cancer because I'm on mine all the time and most people are.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. Depends what experts you ask. Some experts will say go like this all you want, doesn't matter. And other experts will say that what I'm doing right now is kind of roasting my brain cells.
So, while these experts debate, if you're still wondering like Don, does this link exist? Is there anything I can do to lower my risk of brain tumors? Well, don't freak out. There are specific things you can do. And we have some examples today of headsets that experts told me, can lower the radiation going to your head.
For example, this is a plain old headset that came to my phone. But it's using what's called farad bead. I got this at a local store for $5. And it is said to reduce the radiation that's coming through this wire
Bluetooth also reduces the radiation, expects say, by more than -- makes it 100 times lower compared to using a phone next to your head.
And this little doohickey -- this is kind of unusual. But you can buy it online. The wire ends here, this is all just hollow. And so a lot of people tout these as a great alternative.
So again, Don, if you're worried -- and not everyone is -- but if you're worried there are some things you can do.
LEMON: OK. So, use an earpiece, you say. All right, but how should you carry it?
COHEN: OK. If you're going to -- take this phone -- if I was going to use this phone and put in my earpiece but then put it in my pocket, I'm just sort of radiating. Some would say, what's on the other side of that pocket? And some people would say, what's the point?
LEMON: Use a belt clip --
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: Or a belt clip, people would say the same thing.
LEMON: OK.
COHEN: So really what you want to do is use the earpiece and hold it a distance away. Now this doesn't look like much, but experts tell me that really is quite a bit, you're really reducing the radiation by quite a bit just holding it like this.
LEMON: Oh, really?
COHEN: Yes.
LEMON: OK. And what does the phone industry say about this? They have a response I'm sure.
COHEN: They do, absolutely. They say that there are no studies that whatsoever that definitively link cell phones and cancer. Let's read what they have to say: "The overwhelming majority of studies that have been published in scientific journals around the globe show that wireless phones do not pose a health risk."
But, if you're anxious -- this is me talking now, not the industry -- CNN.com/empoweredpatient. We have all sorts of very specific places to go to get these headsets and things like to do.
LEMON: OK.
COHEN: The jury is still out.
LEMON: Can I have my Black Berry back?
COHEN: Yes, you can have your Black Berry back. There you go.
LEMON: You know those -- the Bluetooth thing, I don't like the way -- it looks weird. Like Star Trek or something.
COHEN: A little geeky, yes. Some people say that.
LEMON: All right. Thank you very much.
COHEN: Thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So far, not so bad -- $32, $33.
What's up with all the nats?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Security took forever. Now, we only have about 20 minutes until our flight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Well which is cheaper for the family vacation? Flying or Driving?
Don and I put it to a real life test.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hello, Kyra Phillips.
All right. So, it's on. It is on, my friend. It is on.
Have you taken your summer vacation yet? Did you fly or did you drive? With gas prices hovering around $4 a gallon and the airlines tacking on baggage fees -- we saw that recently -- and raising rates, it sure is a tough choice, isn't it?
PHILLIPS: Well we wanted to figure out which is the better deal for you, your family. So, yes, Don and I decided to put it to a real life test.
And how much time and money would a family of three actually spend getting to their vacation in a car versus a plane? Well here you go.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON (voice-over): Our trip from Atlanta to vacation destination Orlando -- that is about 450 miles. I went by car, Kyra by plane. And for added realism, we both brought along one of those dolls programmed to cry just like a real baby.
(on camera): Oh, the baby is crying. It's 8:45 and the baby is crying.
PHILLIPS (on camera): I have a feeling this baby is going to be more difficult than anything else, so here we go.
(voice-over): And flying for the average family can be difficult and expensive if you start adding extra bags per person.
(on camera): So if you're traveling with a family of three and each person has two bags and the second bag costs $20 --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, if you do that at the airport.
PHILLIPS (voice-over): But for the families I met along the way, it was still worth it.
(on camera): So whose idea was it to fly?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Mom's.
PHILLIPS: Mom's. All right, and why did you pick flying, mom? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well it's easier than a 16-hour drive from Ohio.
PHILLIPS: So I'm curious, why fly instead of driving?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gas prices.
PHILLIPS: Too expensive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I have a 7-year-old, so a lot less time in the car.
LEMON (voice-over): Speaking of time in the car, we're back on the road from Atlanta to Orlando.
(on camera): 12:22, and we are in -- I'm not exactly sure where we are. I guess we're getting close to Valdosta, Georgia. When you get on a plane, it's just to -- it's go all about getting there. When you're in a car, part of it's getting there but a lot of it's what's in the middle.
Hey. I'm shopping for peanut clusters.
(voice-over): For the families I met along the way, driving had some definite payoffs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we did have the choice and we chose driving.
LEMON: Why did you chose driving? Gas prices are high. Why are you driving?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because airline tickets are even higher, and it's educational for the kids.
LEMON: So why did you drive to Tampa instead of fly?
AURELIA LANE, DRIVING ON VACATION: Well you know, we carpooled. So it was faster to carpool.
LEMON: It's more economical, you think?
LANE: Yes.
PHILLIPS: All right. This is where I get stressed out -- not knowing how long the security lines are going to be. I have never seen it like this in a really long time.
(voice-over): But getting through security with a baby, even a fake one, can be a little tricky.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This baby has got a metal head.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, lord.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop that. Stop. Stop. PHILLIPS (on camera): OK. That was an experience. Security took forever. Now we only have about 20 minutes till our flight.
LEMON: You see that guy cut us off? Weeny.
We've got a child on board, mister. Slow it down.
I wouldn't have stopped for a couple of hours. But I think the baby needs changing.
PHILLIPS: OK. Here is one advantage of flying. Don has to drive, right? Seven hours. Well, he can't have a cocktail.
Jeff, what do you have there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chardonnay and Merlot here.
PHILLIPS: What do you recommend?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Chardonnay.
LEMON (singing): The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.
PHILLIPS (voice-over): The miles are adding up and so are the costs. So which one was cheaper, flying or driving?
Well, for a family of three, our airfare added up to $891. When you add in the $8-a-day parking at the airport for a five-day vacation that tacks on another $40. Grand total, $931.
LEMON(voice-over): And now let's do the math on the road trip. We spent about $80 round trip for gas, and lunch for two adults was about $30. If you take your own car, that's pretty cheap, just $110. But if you decide to rent the SUV, that can tack on another $641 more for five days for a grand total of $751. So it costs more to fly either way. But, Kyra's flight took a lot less time.
So which is better? Well it all depends on who you ask.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a lot cheaper today to drive.
PHILLIPS: (on camera): So do you like flying or driving better when you take a trip?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Flying.
PHILLIPS: Flying. How come?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Because it's faster.
PHILLIPS: It's faster.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(AUDIO GAP) PHILLIPS: ... on the road.
LEMON: Yes. I couldn't hear a word you were saying because something was -- I had interference in my ear. But my mailbox is lighting up from people who love it.
But you know what? The people on the road, really, the people that we met on the road and in the airports were amazing. I met one family, Kyra, who had -- I think they had 10 kids. Some of them were adopted. And they don't get to fly. One of them was disabled, so she got a wish from Make-A-Wish Foundation so their family got to fly.
But it's too expensive for most families to spend a lot of money, so it depends on sort of --
PHILLIPS: I got just the opposite. That's what is so strange.
Like the family of five that I interviewed, the little girl said we're going to my baton contest and mom said we couldn't drive because it was going to cost too much gas-wise and it was actually cheaper when they laid out the road trip versus flying because they went on line and got a special deal.
LEMON: Cool. All right. Well, you know what? I stopped at the peanut company and pecan place and I got some Goo Goo Clusters and all kinds of candy that I will share with the newsroom.
We'll ship you some up to New York.
That was fun, Kyra.
Next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.
