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Nancy Grace
Missing Toddler`s Mom May Get Out of Jail on Technicality
Aired August 01, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last hours, real live "CSI." Florida crime scene investigators show up at Caylee`s home, leaving with bags of evidence.
And tonight: Will a legal technicality let Caylee`s mom walk free, walk free in just days, torpedoing any chance police will find ever the little girl alive, this while Caylee`s mom still stonewalling police? Photos emerge of her mom, Casey, celebrating at various nightclubs after Caylee vanishes. Police say point blank mom, Casey, not helping them find 2-year-old Caylee, the clock ticking on results from hair and fluid samples discovered in Casey Anthony`s car trunk. Will formal criminal charges be next?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Anthonys left their home at 9:00 AM sharp, headed for the sheriff`s office, apparently invited by investigators and unaware of what`s about to go down. While there, crime scene techs show up to an empty Anthony home. It`s the first time they`ve been back since they dug up the Anthonys` back yard. Moments later, detectives pull up with George Anthony in tow. With a look of dismay on his face, he opens the garage. Cindy Anthony is nowhere in sight. They quickly make their way inside the Anthony home, minutes later returning with two large paper bags of evidence. Then, as quickly as they came in, they left without saying a word.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER: Do you think Caylee`s OK right now?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My gut feeling? As Mom asked me yesterday and (INAUDIBLE) last night and the psychologist asked me this morning that I met with through the court, in my gut, she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s -- she`s close to home.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know they took some evidence from your house. Can you at least talk about the bags of evidence?
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Back away from the car, or we`ll walk back in and get the deputies to come back out, OK? We`re late. We should have been out of here an hour ago. We`ve got to go to Daytona. There`s no story, guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CYNTHIA ANTHONY: I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, now not seen for six long weeks. In the last hours, real live "CSI." Florida crime scene investigators show up at Caylee`s home, leaving with bags of evidence. And tonight: Will a legal technicality let Caylee`s mom walk free in just days, torpedoing any chance police will ever find this little girl alive?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony, the court would say to you, Where is Caylee Anthony? But I can`t force you to answer that question. But that`s the question I leave. Do you understand? Your 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist at an apartment you cannot identify, and you lied to your parents and friends concerning your child`s whereabouts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: Do you think Caylee`s OK right now?
CASEY ANTHONY: My gut feeling? As Mom asked me yesterday and (INAUDIBLE) last night and the psychologist asked me this morning that I met with through the court, in my gut, she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s -- she`s close to home.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These charges, I would say it is substantial. In fact, it basically includes a confession from her that she`s lying about the investigation. Not a bit of useful information has been provided by Ms. Anthony as to the whereabouts of her daughter.
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s leading you to a place, but she`s not telling you to the right exact location to which apartment it is because she`s afraid, if someone walks in, that something may happen to Caylee.
There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CYNTHIA ANTHONY: I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. What`s the latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the latest, Nancy, is the fact that crime scene investigators from the Orange County sheriff`s office returned to the Anthony home today. That happened late this morning. They went immediately to the back yard, to the little shed where little Caylee used to play. They took a couple of items described by police as personal items, some clothing items, and they put them in two big brown paper bags like you`d get at a supermarket back in the day, and they took them back to the sheriff`s office. They will not say what they really took.
Also, the Anthonys met today with investigators at the sheriff`s office. You documented earlier the fact that they were down there at 9:00 o`clock this morning, and they stayed there for a couple of hours. They were questioned separately, George and Cindy Anthony questioned separately.
Carlos Padilla, during his news conference this afternoon, said everything -- they`re cooperating, but the big key to this entire case is Casey Anthony, who has not said a thing about where little Caylee is. She says, In my gut, I know she`s close by. And that`s about it. So she is stonewalling investigators. She has for the past two weeks.
And then the other development which came up just a short time ago is Florida`s 33-day rule. In essence, she is being held on three charges right now in the Orange County jail. One of them is child neglect. Now, if the state attorney does not bring any sort of formal charges within the next 17 days, in essence, the 33rd day after her incarceration, she could go scot-free on her own recognizance, which would really throw a monkeywrench into this entire investigation, Nancy.
GRACE: And to Brian Reich, deputy chief of Bergen County sheriff`s office. If we think she`s not cooperating now, when she leaves that jailhouse in 17 days, walks free, what can cops expect to get from her then?
BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN CO. SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, I think it`s going to be -- I think it`s going to be difficult for them to get cooperation from her. She`s already been incarcerated. They`ve accused her, obviously, of lying. So she`s going to be very defensive. Her attorney`s probably not going to let her talk.
You know, one of the interesting things when we hear that recording of her phone conversation, if you had a statement -- analysis expert on, he would tell you that a lot of the words that she used were really distancing herself from the child, and it`s very suspicious.
GRACE: Words such as what, Brian?
REICH: Well, she said, In my gut, she`s still OK. She`s close to home. She -- she never used her name. If my kid was missing and I`m talking to a relative of mine, or my brother or my sister, I would use my daughter`s first name. I wouldn`t say "she" and distance myself. And a lot of people do that when they`re being deceptive in statements.
GRACE: You know, that`s very interesting. That`s a very interesting observation.
Everybody, we are taking your calls live tonight. Bombshell developments in the search for little Caylee Anthony. Number one, real live "CSI." Crime scene investigators show up at the Anthony home today, leaving with bags of evidence. Then, under a Florida technicality, it looks as if mom, Casey, may be set to walk free from jail. We are taking your calls.
Out to Kristie in Texas. Hi, Kristie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering if the police had any information on questioning Tony Lazzaro about something I saw on the local news there in Florida, that he had picked Casey up from the abandoned car, that she had called him and told him that her father would take care of everything.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Mark Williams with WNDB. Do you know anything about that?
WILLIAMS: No, that`s a new revelation to me. Again, as we`ve talked on previous shows, that Anthony Lazzaro is cooperating 100 percent with the police department. And they`ve searched his apartment. And they can`t find him (SIC). They can`t find Caylee.
GRACE: To Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, have you heard any developments regarding the boyfriend, Anthony Lazzaro, picking her up from the car?
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: I had heard about that, that Casey had called him and said that she had run out of gas and asked him to come and pick her up and said that her father was going to come and take care of the car and not to worry about the car.
As far as anything else, we`re in the dark. But of course, we learned that that was not true. The car sat there abandoned until it was towed by the company, that had sat outside, and the Anthonys received a registered letter saying, Pick up your car. And that was pretty much what sparked this whole investigation.
GRACE: So clearly, she did not want her parents to come get the car. She never contacted them about the car. They only found out when they got a notice that their car had been impounded, towed away from where she had abandoned it, apparently with her pocketbook sitting right there on the front seat.
With us tonight -- let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, veteran lawyer Gloria Allred, victims` rights advocate. Also with us, former prosecutor turned defense attorney -- no stranger to a courtroom -- Peter Odom, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and New York attorney, defense lawyer Midwin Charles. Welcome, attorneys.
Gloria Allred, weigh in.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, I mean, obviously, it`s all very suspicious. I don`t know, Nancy, if it`s going to make any difference whether she`s free or incarcerated in terms of her being forthright about any information that she has because it sounds as though she`s just not going to provide it. She hasn`t provided it while she`s in custody. She knows that all of her telephone calls with her family and her friends are being recorded and then disseminated publicly. And it sounds as though she`s not ready to come forward with any information.
GRACE: You know -- to you, Peter Odom -- this 33-day rule -- in other words, right now, she`s not formally charged with anything. She`s been arrested...
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s only been charged with charges involving child endangerment.
GRACE: Correct.
ODOM: They`re not close to a murder charge, at this point, and they`re going to be...
GRACE: Yes. I haven`t -- I haven`t even thrown you a question yet, Peter. My question is, right now, she`s only been arrested, no formal charges. If she is formally charged, either on a misdemeanor or a felony, she`ll have to re-make bond or will she stay under the current bond?
ODOM: She will have to re-make bond, but the presumption will be that she will stay under the current bond of $500,000, which is ridiculously high for these charges.
GRACE: Well, you know, did you hear, Peter Odom, what the judge said? I played it for you at the opening of the show. He said, You were the last one seen with your daughter. You`ve taken police to meet the baby-sitter, who doesn`t exist, at an apartment complex that is not the right address where she lived. You have endangered your daughter, and she hasn`t been seen now in "X" number of days.
ODOM: Well, he`s just one of the people in responsible positions making very irresponsible comments. We have the Florida attorney general talking about thinking that this child may have been murdered. There is no evidence of that.
GRACE: Oh, really? Peter, as I recall, when you were a felony prosecutor, you put great faith in cadaver dogs, did you not?
ODOM: Yes. And even if there was...
GRACE: So now you don`t believe them anymore?
ODOM: I do. And in fact, even if there were a body in that car...
GRACE: So gee, if it wasn`t Caylee -- if it wasn`t Caylee, I wonder what body was in the Anthonys` back yard and in their car trunk? What do you think, Peter?
ODOM: Even if there were a body in the car trunk, that does not necessarily mean murder. Children die every day in this country tragically without there having been a murder, Nancy.
GRACE: And if that were true, Midwin Charles, why would she be lying about it?
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I`m actually finding this case to be quite bizarre. I mean, for a mother to not be forthright about what`s going on about her daughter is actually quite bizarre, and I wonder whether a psych evaluation has been ordered on this young woman.
GRACE: Midwin, you`re on the money. Yes, in fact, the judge stated that as a condition of her release, not one but two psych evaluations must be done. And to my understanding, Gloria, at least one of them has been done, but it`s under seal. We don`t know what it says.
ALLRED: We don`t know what it says, and we`re not probably going to know what it says, unless there`s a leak. And apparently, there are a lot of leaks in this case. And that`s kind of dangerous because we don`t know whether it`s fact or fiction.
For example, Nancy, there was just a leak allegedly by one of the police about her attorney wanting to negotiate some kind of immunity for Casey. Now, her attorney doesn`t appear to be either confirming or denying that, but settlement discussions are generally not something that attorneys want to be leaked. So that will be interesting, to find out whether or not that`s, in fact, true.
GRACE: Well, when Baez was asked -- the defense attorney was asked point blank whether he asked for immunity, he did not deny it. And to me, if he didn`t do it, he would have said, No, I never asked for immunity.
Out to the lines. Anna in Ohio. Hi, Anna.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, if the hair and the fluid that they`re testing turns out to be Caylee, would that be enough to convict her?
GRACE: In my mind, yes. Let`s go out to Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, joining us out of New York. Koby (ph), if the fluid and the hair in the trunk of the car turn out to be Caylee, which I hope it is not -- if it does turn out to be a match to Caylee and there was a smell of a decomposed body -- Caylee`s missing, last seen with her mother -- what do you think about the possibility of a conviction on that alone?
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, I think that they should be able to get a conviction just based on that. We don`t need a body. And examining the hair -- there are sometimes telltale signs on hair as to whether the hair was post-mortem or not. There`s a band that forms nearby the roots. So they might be able to tell if this was a hair that came off post-mortem.
Now, obviously, when you put the smell of decomposition together with some biological substance, which could very well be fluids of decomposition, and hair -- we don`t know how many hairs, whether it was a clump, whether it was pulled, whether it fell out. There`s a lot that we don`t know. But putting that all together, it certainly sounds very suspicious, and I think a good prosecutor can make a case out of this, even without a body.
GRACE: Koby -- with us is Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist -- explain to us how you can tell, with a little more specificity -- how you can tell from a hair whether it`s in life or post-mortem.
KOBILINSKY: Well, there`s been some research done on post-mortem hair, and adjacent to the root -- obviously, the root is connected to the shaft of the hair -- there is a dark band that forms. How wide that forms, we really don`t know, but it does form. And so if that hair had fallen out after an individual dies, it would -- you would look for that banding pattern. That would be one good indication that it is a post-mortem hair.
GRACE: And Koby, how long does it take post-mortem -- after death -- for the band, the dark band, to appear between the shaft and the nucleus, the root of the hair?
KOBILINSKY: Well, there haven`t been very many studies, but it happens over a very short time course -- hours, and perhaps a day, perhaps two days. But it should form and they should be able to see it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony, the court would say to you, Where is Caylee Anthony? But I can`t -- I can`t force you to answer that question. But that`s the question I leave. Do you understand?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You left your 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist, at an apartment you cannot identify, and you lied to your parents and friends concerning your child`s whereabouts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s frustrating because our desire has been from the beginning to locate Caylee Marie Anthony. As time passes by, we still want to continue to locate her. I think that her family deserves that, and right now, the community and the nation that has come to embrace this little child deserves that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: Did you speak with Caylee over the phone at any time?
CASEY ANTHONY: I did one time, yes, and that was actually the day that Mom had called the police.
LEE ANTHONY: OK. Do you remember what time you spoke to her?
CASEY ANTHONY: Around noon. It was through a private call.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s leading you to a place, but she`s not telling you to the right exact location, to which apartment it is, because she`s afraid, if someone walks in, that something may happen to Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Casey, you can go ahead and tell us now. Caylee missing is not really a secret anymore.
The fact that they continue on and on -- out to Les Parrott, clinical psychologist and author joining us -- saying that Casey refuses to speak because she doesn`t want the real kidnapper to know that she`s gone to police -- we know about it now. It`s out there.
LES PARROTT, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, we know about it, and it`s obviously the case that she has something that`s more valuable to her than this little precious child. It`s hard to imagine. I don`t think we`re dealing with something within the normal realm here at all.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Parrott, would most mothers that you have dealt with care more about finding their child or their own charges? I mean, if she found -- if the child was found unharmed, then the charges again her would most likely be dropped anyway, if her story is true.
PARROTT: Exactly. And you know, that`s why I say this is not normal. I mean, we`re either dealing with something -- we`re trained as psychologists, sometimes, to -- you know, when you hear hoofbeats, don`t think of zebras. You know, don`t jump to the most exotic conclusion. But it`s difficult not to do that here. We`re probably dealing with a dissociative identity disorder or something that`s going on that is going to surprise us.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Karen in Nevada. Hi, Karen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are the guardian angel of all victims, and you are my CNN hero.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. And thank you for calling in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re welcome. I have a comment and then a question. I wish Lee would quit letting his sister make a fool out of him and insulting his intelligence.
My question is, can they get a warrant to subpoena the Anthonys` home phone records, since she lived there for all that time and had the baby- sitter supposedly for two years? Most people, when they`re at home, use their land line phones, and it would be impossible to think that there`s not one call to her from that woman.
GRACE: Karen in Nevada, your point is excellent. We`ll pick it up with our detective when we get back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s a 22-year-old. You know, I was out to dinner last night. I actually smiled. Does that mean I`m not grieving for my granddaughter, that I`m not looking for my granddaughter? My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half-truths, but she`s not a murderer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: ... because my next thing will be down to child (INAUDIBLE) thing and we`ll have a court order to get her. If that`s the way you want to play it, we`ll do it and you`ll never...
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s not the way I want to play it.
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, then you have to...
CASEY ANTHONY: Give me one more day.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Today crime scene investigators swoop down on the Anthony home, leaving with bags of evidence. What`s in those bags? Don`t know yet.
To answer Karen in Nevada`s question -- to Brian Reich. Certainly, the Florida police have already subpoenaed the phone records in and out of the Anthony home, and cell records, in addition to land lines, right?
REICH: I would imagine that they`ve certainly filed subpoenas, at the very least, for the toll records, the detail calls that they`ve made on cell phones, on the land line, as well as probably looked into any of the computers that they have for remnants of chats or e-mails or other communications.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY: Just remember that if you give it to the attorney, (INAUDIBLE) can choose whether or not...
CASEY ANTHONY: He can read it. Choose whether or not to take the chance, exactly, which is why I`ll do a secondary letter to make sure that it`s direct.
LEE ANTHONY: Perfect. That would be -- I would encourage that 110 percent.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s not the most scientific experiment, but it might shed light on the validity of the rotting pizza theory. We decided to take a basic Domino`s Meats-a-pizza and put the leftovers inside a locked car in the Florida sun.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD CAYLEE: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots it stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: But our experiment doesn`t support the smelly pizza theory after temperatures in the 90s. After seven days in the trunk we decided to see what the pizza was like. Basically all the moisture is gone. It`s got the consistency of shoe leather and you got to get really close to smell anything and the only smell you can smell is pizza.
Channel 9 managing editor Joel Davis volunteered his car for the experiment.
(On camera): Have you opened it up every day and looked at it or.
JOEL DAVIS, CHANNEL 9 MANAGING EDITOR: About every other day I`ve taken a look at it. You know for the first day, the first day or two when you opened up the trunk, Steve, you would have the smell of pizza from the trunk. But after that, nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Never a rancid odor?
DAVIS: No smell whatsoever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Where is 2-year-old little Caylee? Her mom still stonewalling police behind bars.
We are taking your calls today.
CSI, crime scene investigators, show up at the Anthony home leaving with bags of evidence.
Interesting, to Mark Williams, you stated that it was taken from behind the house. Where?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Nancy, where the investigators went two weeks ago looking for evidence back there. That`s, of course, where the cadaver dogs hit for the very first time. But they took it from that little shed that they had back there that stays back there. And in the videotape, you can see them two weeks ago moving it back and forth looking for things under there.
So, again, we don`t know what`s in those bags, but once that`s revealed, that`s going to be pretty interesting. It`s -- there`s probably some very damaging evidence in there.
GRACE: And to Nikki Pierce, with WBDO Radio -- Nikki, is it correct that after meeting with the Anthonys this morning, interviewing them separately -- that would be Cindy Anthony and her husband, the grandmother and grandfather -- it seems as if something in those interviews led CSI to go straight to the home and get something.
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: It does seem to be that way. As a matter of fact, George escorted them -- the grandfather, George -- escorted them to the home and allowed them to search.
Investigators said that this was a scheduled interview, that they had come in voluntarily, that they are really cooperating now and went out of their way to state that. But they did say there was one Anthony that is not cooperating at all, and that`s Casey.
GRACE: You know, I want to go back out to Brian Reich, deputy chief, Bergen County Sheriff`s Office. We were talking about the phone records being likely subpoenaed. The other day, Cindy Anthony, the grandmother, stated point blank that police had the phone records and they were not releasing them to the public.
Well, the family has the phone records, too. What are we going to learn from the phone records, in a nutshell?
BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, we`re going to learn -- we`re going to learn who`s speaking to who, who`s called who, if she`s placed any phone calls to this mysterious babysitter, if there`s -- in existence. And also, who`s the grandmother talking to, who are the family members communicating with?
And if they can identify that maybe it will lead to some follow-up interviews.
GRACE: To Gloria Allred joining us tonight, if Caylee is not found soon, do you expect formal charges to come down?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, it depends on what they find, I think, from the forensic evidence. But I`d like to also say something about the phone call, because she`s given two different versions.
At one point she said it was a private call from the babysitter. At another point, Nancy, she said it was a call from a number that was no longer in service. Now it`s interesting that she would say a private call.
Why would she even volunteer that? Is that because private calls somehow can`t be traced? And why is she being so I inconsistent?
GRACE: You know, back to Brian, private phone calls, of course, are when you have your call blocked and it won`t show up on caller ID but that will not stop it from being traced through police tracing.
REICH: That`s right. When you get a toll order and you get the detailed record as a result of a warrant or a subpoena, you`re going to get that number. It`s not just like looking at your phone bill.
But one point that, I think, is very interesting that maybe the stuff -- she stressed the word it was a private call and the number was blocked. If there`s nothing to hide, I think a truthful person would have just said she got a phone call. But she had to stress the fact that the number was blocked, almost coming up with an excuse for why she can`t articulate who this person is and the identity of the person.
GRACE: Yes, well, that -- nobody asked her and she just volunteered it.
REICH: Yes, exactly.
GRACE: Let`s go back to the lawyers, Gloria Allred, Peter Odom, out of Atlanta, Midwin Charles, out of New York. And of course, Gloria, joining us from L.A.
To you, Peter Odom, even when you get a phone call from a private number or a blocked number, if you pressed star 69, I don`t believe you can call the number back, can you?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Actually, I`m not sure. But that number would still be recorded on the phone records that the police are no doubt looking at.
GRACE: Yes, that police get.
Midwin, I don`t think you can dial back. I don`t think you can star 69 a private number. In other words, redial it. But what Gloria said really made me think, because she said, I tried to call it back but it was already disconnected. It was already out of service.
I don`t think you can call back a private number.
MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think you can. But, you know, like I had said earlier, she`s not particularly making any sense here. But I do want to adhere, Nancy, that these investigators need to do their job and need to make a case against her.
Otherwise, that 33-day rule will have her out, and it should, because they need to do their job and make sure that they have enough evidence to hold her on any other charges.
GRACE: Midwin, could you foresee charges -- some type of a homicide charge -- even if Caylee`s body is never found?
CHARLES: I can. However, it would depend on what additional evidence they`ve been able to find. I mean we saw that CSI went into this house, came out with two huge bags full of evidence. So you don`t know. It`s possible.
GRACE: Gloria?
ALLRED: Well, yes. It`s difficult to say. And we don`t know what they`re finding from other witnesses as well. So, for example, she has indicated that this babysitter was referred to her by two other people who have children. I wonder if they`ve talked to those so-called two other people. Do those other people even exist?
GRACE: Well.
ALLRED: So far they can`t find the babysitter.
GRACE: It`s interesting, Peter Odom, what Gloria just said. Again, the people that she stated hooked her up with the nanny, as she calls her, no longer evenly work at Universal. She hasn`t been there herself. She was fired two years ago. So everything she`s coming up with is a big lie.
ODOM: There`s no question that she has not done herself any favors every time that she talks. She probably shouldn`t have been saying anything. And, of course, you know, there`s going to be great pressure for the police to bring charges almost no matter what the evidence is.
And I predict that we will see charges before that 33 -- charges involving homicide before those 33 days expire.
GRACE: Out to Bob in New Orleans, hi, Bob.
BOB, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: See, I have a question. I would like to know if Caylee`s mother has submitted to or been asked to submit to a polygraph.
GRACE: She has not taken a polygraph.
Mark Williams, do we know whether she was asked?
WILLIAMS: I believe at one time, Nancy, she even volunteered a polygraph. But as you know, those polygraph results are not admissible in court one way or another.
GRACE: But, you know, Mark, yes, well, if both parties stipulate ahead of time before you take the polygraph that it will come into evidence, that`s the only way it can come into evidence in most jurisdictions unless it`s a civil case. This would be a criminal case.
But regardless, Mark Williams, I mean, court is a long way away, if ever. Don`t you think it would aid police right now if she would take a polygraph test? I mean, when Marc Klaas was questioned when his daughter went missing, he said, here, hook me up, take a polygraph right now, rule me out so you can go find my daughter.
WILLIAMS: Yes. And I saw Marc Klaas`s interview last night, of course. And thus far there`s been no polygraph given and there`s also been no really further talk. It came up at one time but then the idea was dropped. But I`d like to see it because of all of her inconsistencies, just as a journalist, to see what`s going on.
GRACE: Everybody, quick break. We are taking your calls live.
And as we go to break tonight, at your request, pictures of the twins. I`ll put these on the Web tonight. There they are at sleepy time. That was their first swing-set picture earlier. There`s Lucy in her walker. There they are with my -- with my mom, their grandmother. John David learning to crawl, taking a nap. Little Lucy on the phone.
Little Lucy enjoying a magazine and playing with the tiger. There`s John David sitting up. We did not stage these. They`re sitting up now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s some items that they felt was of interest to the case. However, we`re not going to be able to discuss as to exactly what was removed. But as you noticed, Mr. Anthony went with the detectives over there and, again, indicative of the cooperation that the family is having with us.
I believe it was from outside the house, from somewhere in the back. Not exactly sure exactly where.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You know they took some evidence from your house. Can you at least talk about the bags of evidence?
C. ANTHONY: Back away from the car or we`ll walk back in and get the deputies to come back out, OK? We are late. We`ve should have been out of here an hour ago. We`ve got to go to Daytona. There`s no story, guys.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Where is 2-year-old Caylee Anthony?
Out to the lines, Joyce in California, hi, Joyce.
Uh-oh, sorry, lost Joyce. Sandy in Montana, hi, Sandy.
SANDY, MONTANA RESIDENT: Hi, thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
SANDY: First of all, I don`t believe a word out of this girl`s mouth. But on the off chance that she is telling the truth, why hasn`t there been a composite sketch done of this ghostly babysitter?
GRACE: Well, Sandy, believe it or not, it`s my understanding there has been a composite sketch drawn. And why is it, Mark Williams, that police are not releasing it?
WILLIAMS: That`s a good question. Again, this is the first time I`ve heard about the composite. And it`s like the person at the Atlanta Airport a couple of weeks ago who said they saw Caylee. They supposedly came up with a composite sketch then. They didn`t release it then. Again no videotapes surfaced on that either.
So -- and one thing -- and the other thing, Nancy, is the fact that investigators are working 24/7 on this case. They -- you know, they don`t even get a chance to see their families. There is a lot going on behind the scenes which they don`t release to us, nor are they telling anybody else.
Everybody`s remaining tight-lipped. Now, I will guarantee next week`s paycheck the fact that they are out in the street 24/7 talking to a lot of people. And even the patrol officers, you know, they have their ears open just in case maybe they pull somebody over on a traffic stop and maybe somebody says, well, you know, I have that -- I have some information dealing with this case.
Everybody`s keeping their ears open, because they want to solve this case real quick.
GRACE: To Nikki Pierce -- Nikki, why aren`t police releasing that composite of the nanny?
PIERCE: Well, actually, it saw a limited release and there really wasn`t a lot heard after that. Fact is, the investigators have been, as Mark mentioned, working around the clock on this and they have not found this person. They have found several Zenaidas and not the Zenaida in question.
GRACE: Not the Zenaida she`s described to me. It is obvious to me the reason they`re not releasing it is because they don`t believe it. Remember nobody in Casey Anthony`s family, her friends, neighbors, boyfriend, nobody has ever talked to or seen the so-called nanny she left her daughter with.
OK, let`s try Joyce in California again. Hi, Joyce.
JOYCE, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy about.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
JOYCE: I love your show so much.
GRACE: Thank you.
JOYCE: You have a really great gift of passion.
GRACE: Thank you.
JOYCE: I have a comment. How is she getting all this phone time?
GRACE: Interesting.
To Brian Reich, how much phone time do you get in the jail?
REICH: It depends upon the jurisdiction. You do have -- you have a right to communicate with people and use the phone. You have phone privileges unless you violate some internal rule, they`ll suspend it but then.
GRACE: Yes, we have just gotten the log of her guests, her visitors at the jail. They`re almost all attorneys.
Back out to the lines, Carmen in Florida. Hi, Carmen.
CARMEN, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CARMEN: My question is the following. I`m just troubled. Why can`t they use the cadaver dogs to go into Casey`s personal closet? Maybe she still has some of those body liquids on her clothes and they can, you know, and the dogs can detect it.
GRACE: Mark, when the cadaver dogs came, did they go into the home?
WILLIAMS: Not that I know of. The only video I`ve seen are the cadaver dogs, of course, in the backyard of the Anthonys` home in east Orange County. I don`t think they`ve ever been inside the house.
GRACE: OK.
WILLIAMS: But that`s a good question.
GRACE: Mark, let me ask you. Now CSI came out and they came today, actually a couple of hours ago. And they took items from the backyard out of that little play shed. What? What do we believe was in the play shed?
WILLIAMS: The only thing that they`re saying right now is what`s in there was clothing and personal items. That`s the only thing they`re releasing. They`re not releasing anything else, any specifics as to what they took out. It`s really tough to say. Who knows?
This -- an event like this could have happened in the play shed and.
GRACE: OK.
WILLIAMS: You know, things are buried there. Who knows?
GRACE: You know, to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, weigh in, Koby.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, I think it`s pretty clear what they`ve collected. They need an exemplar of Caylee. In this case, they`re getting themselves a pseudo exemplar. They`re getting skin cells from her clothing, from toys that she touched.
This is touch DNA, because, after all, if the -- if the stain in the trunk is biological and if they can get a DNA profile, they need to match it to something. So they`ve got to get these skin cells off of those play items or her clothing.
That`s probably what are in the bags.
GRACE: And very quickly, touch DNA you mentioned?
KOBILINSKY: Touch DNA simply means that they`re developing a DNA profile based on analysis of skin cells. When you touch something, skin cells slough off your fingers and you can get a genetic profile if there are enough cells there to test.
GRACE: And you believe that they have taken things out of the play shed to get touch DNA on Caylee herself?
KOBILINSKY: That`s the likelihood. And, in a way, it`s -- I have a feeling that this stain in the vehicle is biological.
GRACE: Joining us tonight Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist out of New York.
But right now "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAMBI GADDIST, MEDICAL MARVEL: Here in South Carolina, HIV is a problem, particularly among African-Americans. After 27 years of AIDS, we are still combating a mentality of fear and shame.
I`m Bambi Gaddist and I`m fighting to stop the spread of HIV/AIDS in South Carolina.
Our organization has the only HIV testing mobile unit in the state. Our goal is to be in the community, testing at a nightclub, we`re there when young folks are out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was my first time. Very first time. I`m glad I did it. It takes some explaining things, actually break it down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When people that are scared see a place like this, it might make them want to go in and get tested.
GADDIST: We had a very good night and we had quite a few people decide to find out their status. We also have positives.
When we get a positive, it validates why we need to keep doing the work.
Did you get tested yet?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did.
GADDIST: You already got them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GADDIST: OK. I sure appreciate you coming out.
I joke about being a 70-year-old woman giving out condoms to the children. When it`s time, I want my obituary to say that I made a difference for someone and that I saved somebody`s life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: July is the last month to nominate someone you know as a CNN hero for 2008. Go to CNN.com/heroes.
ANNOUNCER: CNN HEROES is sponsored by.
Nominate someone you know at CNN.com/heroes for the chance to see them on as a CNN HERO.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We have new photos today of the mother of the little girl who went missing in Florida. The pictures were taken at an Orlando night spot five days after the toddler was last seen.
GRACE: It just keeps getting more and more bizarre. These are the photos we were telling you about. Photos that were apparently taken after little Caylee disappeared. This, I guess, is part of mom Casey`s search for her little girl there at Fusion nightclub.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD CAYLEE: That there`s certain bond that you have with your kids.
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Right.
C. ANTHONY: And it`s -- you know it`s unexplainable. Absolutely.
GRACE: It`s unexplainable that bond you have with your kid, that bond that allows you to not report them missing for 31 days.
She`s claiming that she swapped a SIM card from one phone to the next and that she must have lost one phone and she had another phone from AT&T, and she doesn`t know where they are. And it must have fallen out of her pocketbook and her dog ate the homework, right?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Michael Elledge, 41, Brownsburg, Indiana, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. Awarded the Purple Heart, Army Commendation medal, also served marines as a team.
Loved guitar, leading bible study, working as an aircraft mechanic. Leaving behind parents Lynn and Marion, two sisters, four brothers, widow Carlene, three children, Christopher, Caleb and Cassidy.
Michael Elledge, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for inviting all of us into your homes. And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room. And good-bye to Liz, who`s taking her family away for a Hawaiian vacation in a little grass hut.
I`ll see you in a couple of weeks and we`re really going to miss you.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friends.
END
