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Campbell Brown
Presidential Candidates Talk Tough; Obama Maintains Slim Lead in Polls
Aired August 05, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey there, everybody.
Well, it is getting nasty out there on the campaign trail, some harsh words tonight, mocking attacks first against Barack Obama by John McCain, then Obama sharply pushing back today.
So, what exactly is going on here? Well, very simply, it is an extremely tight race. And tonight, we have got brand-new poll numbers to show you that. Check it out. It is our latest CNN poll of polls. Obama has a five-point lead, only a five-point lead.
And the reason this is significant that if you look at the polls, on so many of the issues, voters are lining up with Obama's positions, and by a wide margin. But they are not necessarily lining up behind Obama with the same wide margin. So, why not? Well, we're going to dig into that, no bias, no bull.
And later a picture you have just got to see. McCain goes for the biker vote at a rally where his opening acts were bands like Def Leppard and Lynyrd Skynyrd. Though Harleys and leather may not at first seem like a good fit for McCain, we will tell you why this is precisely the picture the campaign wants you to see.
And with the tide turning in favor of offshore drilling here in the U.S., we wondered why the issue has caused such an emotional divide in this country. And the answer, of course, comes down to fears about worst-case environmental scenarios. David Mattingly is in Alaska looking at that for us.
And it is all ahead tonight in the ELECTION CENTER, no bias, no bull.
But we begin with that gap that we mentioned between voters' views on the issues and their views on the candidates.
In a recent CNN poll, 62 percent of Americans want a timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq -- 54 percent blame the Bush administration for high gas prices. And a whopping 76 percent think things are going badly in the country today. So, voters are lining up against the White House and generally with Democrats on a lot of these issues. And, yet, they're not lining up as much with Obama.
And some political observers are asking why the race at this stage is so close.
Jessica Yellin is live in Washington now with details for us -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, the political climate, as you say, does favor Obama. But, so far, that's really not translating into a landslide margin for him. Well, pollsters say there is a reason why some voters are holding back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN (voice-over): Most Americans are grim about the state of the economy, unimpressed with progress in Iraq, and unhappy with the Republican in the White House. Voters want change, and poll after poll shows they favor Democrats in November. You might think the stage is set for the Democratic presidential candidate to coast to an easy victory. So, why is Obama holding on to just a narrow advantage?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think it's his lineage, nor do I think it's his policies. I think it's the fact that he's young and relatively inexperienced. You hear all the time people say, well, is he really ready to be president, someone his age, someone who hasn't been in Washington that long, someone who doesn't seem to have a lot of experience with national security or foreign affairs?
YELLIN: A recent NBC News/"Wall Street Journal" poll shows, four in 10 Americans don't relate to Obama's background or values. In other words, to many, he's unknown. And the McCain campaign is trying to capitalize on that, telling voters Obama cannot be trusted in ads like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MCCAIN CAMPAIGN AD)
NARRATOR: He's the biggest celebrity in the world.
AUDIENCE: Obama! Obama!
NARRATOR: But is he ready to lead?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: The Obama campaign insists this is all to be expected, and it's a long time between now and November.
But they do know they have got work to do. Introducing Barack Obama, that's the key idea, making voters feel comfortable with him, like he's a guy they know and he knows them. So, they're replacing the big crowds with smaller settings, taking questions...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your plan for education for our children?
YELLIN: ... and hitting back hard against McCain's attacks with this new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, OBAMA CAMPAIGN AD) NARRATOR: He's practicing the politics of the past. John McCain, his attacks on Barack Obama not true, false, baloney, the low road, baseless.
John McCain, same old politics, same failed policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
YELLIN: And new stepped-up criticism on the stump.
OBAMA: And our politics has gotten so nasty. That's the word I was looking for -- but not just nasty, also cynical and manipulative.
YELLIN: Political observers say the numbers could change dramatically, that is if undecided voters decide to trust the new guy. The McCain campaign is working to ensure that doesn't happen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN: Campbell, the unknown in all of this is the role of race. But it does play a role, as charges of playing the race card erupted on both sides last week.
Certainly, the fact that Obama is the first African-American in his position could be a big reason why some voters feel that he's unfamiliar or that he might hold different values. But just what role it will play, well, that's just still unknown -- Campbell.
BROWN: An important issue we're going to talk about now with our panel.
Jessica, thanks so you.
As we mentioned, a race as tight as this one, everything's on the table for both candidates.
With me now tonight, conservative radio and TV talk show host Joe Pagliarulo, radio talk show host Joe Madison, and CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger.
Joe Pagliarulo, let me start with you.
Those poll numbers pretty clear. On issue after issue, Americans do tend to favor the Democratic position right now at this point in time. Given all that, why do you think the race is as tight as it is?
JOE PAGLIARULO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, Campbell, I think what it shows is that the American people aren't buying the fact that Obama's trying to make John McCain George W. Bush.
I think that by and large Americans, according to these polls, aren't saying that we agree with the Democrat. They're saying, we disagree with the White House the way it is right now.
George W. Bush and his policies are not going to continue if John McCain wins election in November. And Obama, I think, is going to have to -- he is going to have to shift gears here. Americans are not buying that.
Plus, yes, he's young. He's new. He's fresh. But he's also a lot of flash and not so much substance. I think John McCain's doing a good job of saying that about Obama, whereas Obama is not proving that this is George W. Bush's third term.
JOE MADISON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Oh, bull. John McCain voted with Bush 90...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Bull?
MADISON: Excuse me. Yes, B-U-L-L.
(LAUGHTER)
MADISON: I didn't interrupt you. Don't even start, Joe.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Joe Madison, you have got the floor.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: Thank you. Thank you.
Bull is the word. John McCain -- and here it is, America -- voted with Bush 90 percent of the time, 90 percent. That meant 10 percent he didn't agree with, so where is this maverick thing coming for?
Oh, yes, he was a burr in his butt at times, but he's changed his position on offshore drilling. If anybody has flip-flopped, it has been John McCain.
Look, Obama, you said it right. He's young, he's flashy, but you left out you left out something. You left out something.
PAGLIARULO: He's inexperienced. He has no clue. He is flip- flopping. He has no policy.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: OK, OK. Come, on guys.
MADISON: You left out something. He's smart. He's smart.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: All right, Gloria, let me ask you to address it. We talk so much about where the candidates stand on the issues. But you can't ignore the fact that personality is a huge factor in all of this. And the polls would seem to confirm that. Is this race becoming about personality, whether you like Obama or McCain? GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I believe that, in the end, Campbell, all presidential races come down to character. And that's what I think it's really going to be about.
And what you see in the poll that Jessica mentioned in her piece is that Americans don't know Barack Obama yet. They're not sure that they can relate to his values or his background. They need to know a little bit more about him.
And what John McCain is trying to do is to tell them. But he wants to tell them in his own way. He wants to fill in all of those blanks. He wants to tell them that Barack Obama is things that they're not going to like. And in the end, what McCain wants to do is to say, this fellow is too much of a risk to be president of the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: I'm sorry.
He mocks Obama. It's interesting. Paris Hilton, Hilton's family gave money maxed out to who? McCain.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: Wait a minute.
Britney Spears...
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: What are you so angry about, Joe?
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: Wait a minute, a registered Republican. So, who is she closest to, Obama or McCain?
BROWN: Gloria, finish your point, and then we're going to take a quick break.
Go ahead, Gloria.
BORGER: The thing about McCain is, is that he's his own brand. He's not the Republican brand. He's the John McCain brand. He's the truth-teller brand.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, good point.
BORGER: And that's what he's going to emphasize.
BROWN: All right, stay with me, guys.
I want to have you address the question that Jessica raised, whether or not race is a factor in all of this. We will come back to that in a moment. And still to come, dueling energy plans, the no-bull test from the McCain and Obama plans to bring down gas prices.
Plus, oh, yes, there it is, John McCain, Easy Rider. The candidate reaches out for the biker vote. It's the demo that we have been dying to talk about.
And Paris Hilton vs. John McCain. That's right. She says he's used her, and now it's payback time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: You know, when John McCain's campaign goes out there and starts saying things like, I want to -- I would rather lose the war to win an election, or when he says that somehow I didn't want to visit troops in Germany, even though every reporter says that's not true, well, you're not trying to solve problems. All you're trying to do is divide people, so you can win an election. That's nothing to be proud of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Barack Obama fighting back on the campaign trail today.
So, do both candidates have to go negative now to get any real traction in this race?
Back with me to talk about that, Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Madison, and Gloria Borger.
And, Gloria, you just heard Senator Obama, probably the sharpest pushback against McCain we have heard from him. Why the shift?
BORGER: Well, I think he's got to defend himself, Campbell. He was attacked by John McCain. You cannot let any attack go unanswered in any cycle of a presidential campaign, or you're going to lose.
And so what he's going to do is say, John McCain is practicing the same old, same old, nasty politics that never got you anywhere in Washington and he's practicing it against me, and I'm not the guy he says I am.
BROWN: Joe Madison, a smart strategy? I mean, the words that Obama used today, cynical, nasty, in terms of how -- the strategy by McCain, but...
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: That's McCain's reputation. Ask anybody in the United States Senate.
BROWN: But what about trying to stay above the fray and ignore it? Or is Gloria right about that?
MADISON: No, you can't ignore it.
You know what? I'm really glad he's pushing back, as you use that word. I think he has to be tough. I think -- I think people are saying, at least on my show, they want to see him get tough. I think he's been rather polite.
But you know what? Good, as long as he does it honestly and uses honest analogies to counter these lies that are in essence being told. This thing about, what can an individual do to save energy, well, everybody and their grandmother knows you inflate tires. You don't make fun of something like that. The question was, what do you do individually? That was what the question was.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: It was such -- it was dishonest. It was dishonest.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Joe Pagliarulo, would you even concede that race...
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: See, and it's not funny.
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: I couldn't hear you, Campbell.
MADISON: Oh, it's stupid.
BROWN: Can you concede that race may well be a factor playing out in some of these polling numbers that people aren't going to be as honest about?
PAGLIARULO: I think, yes. I think without a doubt when people go behind those closed doors, and that curtain closes, I think that some white people will not press the button for a black man. I think some black people will only press the button for a black man.
I think that it's going to be a factor here. I like that it's been talked about a little bit on the periphery. I think that we have got to get right down to a real racial discussion at some point before November.
Just to comment quickly on what Joe Madison says, Barack Obama, he's not just being smart. He's not pushing back, like you were saying, Campbell. He did a stand-up comedy routine today in Ohio. This guy, he is like a split personality out there on the campaign trail.
When we talk about actual issues, that's where he's going to lose for somebody like me. I never said I was for John McCain, just to let you know. And a year ago, I did a show on CNN with Roland Martin where I talked about Obama is an open candidate for me. I have made a decision against him because the guy doesn't stand for anything. It's not about race for me. It's not about his age. It's about, what are his policies? And I'm confused as to where -- today, he did a comedy routine, I promise you, that was very funny in Ohio, but it got me nowhere down the road, and it got a lot of undecideds nowhere down the road to deciding who they're going to vote for in November.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: OK. So, here's the question. And this goes back to the flip-flop issue. For example, on offshore drilling, he's changed his position. You think about the 2004 campaign.
MADISON: So did McCain.
BROWN: John Kerry got -- I agree. But John Kerry...
MADISON: OK.
BROWN: ... the Republicans were very aggressive about nailing him as a flip-flopper during that campaign. And Obama's tack with this has been, you know, I'm the compromise candidate. I'm going to get things done. Therefore, it's not a flip-flop.
Does that argument work?
MADISON: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Gloria, you go first.
BORGER: Campbell, let me just say that, when the facts change in life and, as in politics, sometimes, your positions are going to change.
And I think that both of these candidates have flip-flopped on offshore drilling. John McCain, in campaign 2000, opposed to it. Barack Obama said, I would support it as part of a broader energy package.
And, by the way, why do we think this is a bad thing? Americans are changing their lifestyles. We're buying smaller cars. We're living closer to work. Why shouldn't politicians change their positions if we're changing our lives?
(CROSSTALK)
PAGLIARULO: Well, I will answer that, if I may. I think it's a bad thing because at some point we want politicians to stand for something. Barack Obama's flip-flopped on so many very important issues, Iraq, timetables, who's going to talk to who, who's not going to talk to who.
(CROSSTALK) BROWN: But, Joe, they're right. McCain has, too, Joe.
MADISON: So has McCain.
PAGLIARULO: I couldn't hear you.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: So has John McCain.
MADISON: So has McCain.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: John McCain has definitely -- he changed on offshore drilling, absolutely. But that was from eight years ago. And things have changed an awful lot.
We go back and see what the price of a gallon of gasoline was in 2000, as compared to today, there's a major difference here. That's a sea change. Obama is doing it so he can win an election in November.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Hang on, guys. Hang on. We have got a lot more to talk about.
MADISON: I think the operative word is change.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: We're coming back to it.
Coming up: what John McCain and Barack Obama are saying on the energy crisis and how much of it, if any, is bull. We're going to put it to the test.
And then, later, a celebrity scorned. Yes, Paris Hilton takes a shot at John McCain because he took a shot at her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We are starting something new tonight.
First, we're going to listen to what they are saying on the campaign trail, both of these candidates. And then our Tom Foreman is going to be along to put what they're saying into our no-bull test.
First up tonight, Barack Obama, who is complaining that our politics has gotten -- and these are his words -- nasty, cynical, and manipulative. But Obama is also serving up some of his harshest, most mocking attacks yet on John McCain. Take a listen to what the Democrat told a town hall meeting today in Berea, Ohio.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: The other day, I was in a town hall meeting and I laid out my plans for investing $15 billion a year, energy-efficient cars, and a new electricity grid and all this.
Somebody said, well, what can I do? What can individuals do? So, I told them something simple. I said, you know what, you can inflate your tires to the proper levels, and that if everybody in America inflated their tires to the proper level, we would actually probably save more oil than all of the oil that we would get from John McCain drilling right below his feet there, wherever it is that he was going to drill -- wherever he was going to drill.
(APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: So, now the Republicans are going around -- this is the kind of thing they do. I don't understand it. They are going around. They're sending like little tire gauges, making fun of this idea, as if this is Barack Obama's energy plan.
Now, two points. One, they know they're lying about what my energy plan is. But the other thing is, they are making fun of a step that every expert says would absolutely reduce our oil consumption by 3 percent to 4 percent.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
OBAMA: It's like these guys take pride in being ignorant, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
OBAMA: I mean, they think it's funny that they're making fun of something that is actually true.
They need to do their homework, because this is serious business. Instead of running ads about Paris Hilton and Britney Spears, they should go talk to some energy experts and actually make a difference.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: So, pretty strong stuff from Barack Obama today. How much of it is accurate?
Well, Tom Foreman is on the no-bull beat for us tonight.
So, Tom, what about those tire gauges?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, the Department of Energy and any kid who has taken a driver's ed course knows your gas mileage is better with properly inflated tires.
But how much mileage should Obama be getting about his claim about this issue?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN (voice-over): AAA says, for every pound of pressure your tires are underinflated, you may be losing 2 percent of your mileage. And the U.S. Department of Transportation found that about a quarter of you commuters out there are running your tires a few puffs short of full pressure.
So, if you could fix that, would it produce the savings Obama is citing, 3 or 4 percent in overall oil consumption. The answer is yes, if you assume, like the DOT does, at least eight pounds of underinflation for at least one tire per offender.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: And the problem is, not everyone does assume that.
Just last year, a Department of Energy economist put the fuel savings from getting all puffed up at more like 1 percent. So, Obama is using legitimate estimates to make his claim, but, like the sticker says, Campbell, your actual mileage may vary.
BROWN: Interesting stuff there, Tom.
OK.
I know that you're going to stay with us.
John McCain is, of course, out there today promoting nuclear power. Those big cooling towers are at a nuclear power plant. Well, McCain says we need a lot more of them. We are going to hear what he's saying and then put that to our no-bull test.
Also tonight, why Americans are leery of offshore oil drilling. We're going to take you back to the scenes of one of our worst oil spills ever.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tonight in the ELECTION CENTER, we are listening to what they are saying on the campaign trail, then putting it to our no-bull test.
John McCain had a new line of attack on Barack Obama today, saying that Obama voted for a pork-laden energy bill, while he, McCain voted against it. McCain visited a nuclear power plant in Michigan this afternoon to dramatize his plan to build dozens of new nuclear plants. Here's what he is saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: I saw that Senator Obama's latest attack has got to do with oil and campaign contributions.
I think he might be a little bit confused, because, when the energy bill came to the floor of the Senate full of goodies and breaks for the oil companies, I voted against it. Senator Obama voted for it. People care not only what you say, but how you vote.
Now, solving our national energy crisis requires, as I have mentioned, an all-of-the-above approach. And that will require aggressive development of alternative energies, like wind, solar, tide, and biofuels. It also requires expanding traditional sources of energy, such as offshore drilling.
And I noticed that there's confusing now information from Senator Obama as to whether he actually supports offshore drilling or not. The fact is, we have to drill here and we have to drill now, and we have to drill immediately. And it has to be done as quickly as possible.
And I believe that it's vital that we move forward with that, regardless of what we do on other energy issues. Senator Obama has said that expanding our nuclear power plants -- quote -- "doesn't make sense for America" -- unquote. He also says no to nuclear storage and no to reprocessing. I could not disagree more.
My experience with nuclear power goes back many years, to being stationed on board the USS Enterprise, the first nuclear-powered aircraft. I knew it was -- aircraft carrier -- I knew it was safe then, and I know it's safe now.
And I proposed a plan to build 45 new nuclear plants before the year 2030. And that would provide 700,000 jobs for American workers. And that means new jobs, and if we really want to enable technologies of tomorrow, like plug-in electric cars, we need electricity to plug into.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Well, after his news conference, McCain told a reporter it could take only five years to build a new nuclear plant. So we asked Tom Foreman to put that to our "No Bull" test.
And, Tom, you also dug up some interesting information about McCain's location today, right?
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, it's interesting that he chose to make this announcement at the Fermi nuclear power plant number two because Fermi plant number one was involved in a partial meltdown back in the 1960s. It wound up being decommissioned and you could hear the anti-nuke crowd howling today saying McCain's plan ought to be shut down too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN (voice-over): The Nuclear Regulatory Commission, however, which is charged with protecting all of us from nuclear accidents, says McCain is right, nuclear plants are safe. The NRC says in the entire history of commercial nuclear energy here, no member of the public has been hurt by a radioactive release. Not even during the nation's most famous nuclear accident -- Three Mile Island.
Still, McCain's proposal is not a plug and play solution. There's a reason no new nuke plan plants have gone up in decades. The NRC says just getting a license to build one takes close to four years, the construction three or four more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: So if you're talking about the actual construction, his number was pretty much right, anywhere from three to five years total, I guess, for actual construction. But, by the way, you've got to find a place to put one. Not a small trick when even new wind farms are getting some communities to say, great idea, but don't build it here -- Campbell.
BROWN: Yes, tough political sell. Not in my back yard.
OK, Tom Foreman. Thanks very much, Tom, appreciate it.
When you think of Senator McCain, I'm sure the first thing that comes to mind, well, a biker's convention? Maybe not. Stay with us for some very interesting and very loud stagecraft.
And then later, guess who is throwing her bikini into the ring? Paris for president? Really? Watch and see. This is the ELECTION CENTER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Grab your leathers, oh, yes. Tonight's stagecraft is born to be wild. We're going to show you how bikers are helping John McCain rev up his campaign.
But first, Erica Hill is with me. She's got tonight's "Briefing" -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Going to stick around for that, absolutely.
Campbell, the gulf coast dealing with the aftermath of Tropical Storm Edouard tonight. Severe weather causing plenty of damage, power outages and flooding. Edouard hit the Louisiana and Texas coast this morning. Gusty winds and downpours made for a huge mess in Galveston and Houston before Edouard weakened to a tropical depression.
In the Chicago area, intense thunderstorms caused widespread damage. Crews are now working to restore power to tens of thousands of people in Illinois and Indiana.
Junior Gotti, son of the late mob boss, busted by the Feds again. John Gotti Jr. is accused of racketeering, conspiracy to commit murder and drug trafficking. He could face life in prison if convicted.
Talk about a scare for passengers flying from L.A. to Honolulu today, nearly 200 people slid down chutes after the American Airlines jet made an emergency landing in Los Angeles. The crew smelled smoke after takeoff, so the pilot turned around.
And Elvis Presley's daughter expecting twins. It is a family tradition for Lisa Marie Presley. Her dad Elvis was a twin. Her mother, Priscilla, has twin brothers. Lisa Marie is married to singer Michael Lockwood. She also has two teenage children, Campbell, from a previous marriage.
BROWN: Congratulations to her.
Erica will be back with us in a moment. Thanks to you.
In a moment, remember the Exxon Valdez, the catastrophic oil spill nearly two decades ago. Well, fears about incidents like that are at the heart of the offshore oil drilling debate. We'll talk about that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Our latest polling shows seven out of 10 Americans now favor offshore oil drilling. One of the reasons Americans had been leery of it for so long is the possibility of oil spills.
Tonight, David Mattingly goes to remote Alaska and takes us back to the scene of one of the worst spills in U.S. history. Cordova, Alaska, is one of many communities along the 1,300 miles of shoreline that was fouled by the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill. As David discovered, they are still feeling the effects today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The vast beauty of Alaska's Prince William Sound is more than 4,000 miles from the halls of the U.S. Supreme Court. People here wish it had stayed that way.
(on camera): What did you think of the Supreme Court decision?
LOU BEADRY, COMMERCIAL FISHERMAN: I thought it sucked. I thought it was unfair. I thought it was politicized.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): Slogged by the Exxon Valdez oil spill 19 years ago, commercial fishermen say the catch hasn't been the same since. An Alaska jury in 1994 ordered the company to pay spill victims $5 billion. The Supreme Court, however, in June, slashed that to just over $507 million.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There ain't no justice left in this country, period.
MATTINGLY (on camera): In the days before the spill fishermen say these docks used to be just alive with activity, with boats constantly coming in and going out. But now, because fishing has become so hit or miss, you have entire weeks just like today where these docks have become one big silent parking lot.
(voice-over): Prince William Sound might look as pristine as ever. The residents say evidence of the spill is easy to find. We took a float plane across the Sound to an island inundated by the '89 spill. All it takes is a shovel to find that oil is still there. MATTINGLY (on camera): This just looks like mud, but it still has a very oily smell to it, almost like tar.
(voice-over): Residents say this oily film is a reminder of an environmental and economic disaster that refuses to let go.
KEVIN O'TOOLE, FISHERMAN: And what that Supreme Court ruling said to me is that, you know, hey, you're just -- you're just the cost of doing business.
MATTINGLY: Former commercial fishermen Linden and Kevin O'Toole say that Exxon gave them some money for their losses the first couple of seasons after the spill. But not in the hard luck years that followed.
LINDEN O'TOOLE, CORDOVA RESIDENT: The thing is, though, we probably lost an average of $50,000 a year in income. We are permit devalued. We paid $300,000 for our permit. We had to sell it three years after the spill for $47,000.
MATTINGLY: The O'Toole's say the $15,000 or so they think they might get after the Supreme Court decision won't be enough to get them back into commercial fishing. At the Cordova docks, frustration rises and falls like the tide.
(on camera): Is this disaster ever going to go away?
DAVID JENKA, CHARTER BUSINESS OWNER: Probably not. No. There'll be something of the human impact, the environmental impact, stained for our lifetimes, at least.
MATTINGLY (voice-over): After the court ruling, a spokesman for Exxon Mobil called the Valdez spill a tragic accident and said the company had already spent $3.4 billion in the aftermath. But fishermen here say they will forever remember the spill as the day they went from thriving to just surviving.
David Mattingly, CNN, Cordova, Alaska.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And think about this, the Exxon Valdez oil spill remains one of the worst spills in U.S. history, but it doesn't even make the list of the 50 worst oil spills worldwide.
Now, Harley riders everywhere. Get your motors running, maybe hold your ears. Those bikes can get pretty loud. Believe it or not, it's all part of John McCain's political stagecraft that's coming up next.
And then later, celebrity slapdown. How Paris Hilton responds to her supporting actress role in McCain's latest attack ad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: What a way to rev up a campaign. John McCain's visit to a huge motorcycle rally in South Dakota was high octane stagecraft. McCain was there with not only bikers, but musicians like Kelly Pickler and Kid Rock.
Erica Hill is here to point out the politics of this two-wheel event -- Erica.
HILL: A lot of politicking here, Campbell. The crowd at the 68th Annual Sturgis Motorcycle Rally in South Dakota isn't John McCain's usual audience. Hundreds of thousands of bikers roll in here from all over the country for eight days of beer and, really, bikini- clad women.
There they are, the ladies dressed for hot summer days, as you can see. McCain, it turns out, is actually the first presidential candidate to ever attend. He had his honor guard. Look at this.
You can see all the bikers with their American flags. They were ushering in the Straight Talk Express. You see it right there in the back coming through.
While this may not be a traditional audience for the senator, it is certainly a background the McCain campaign relishes because this is exactly the image they want to drive home. What says freedom, America and independence, Campbell, better than a motorcycle?
And just in case anybody missed the contrast of a certain recent appearance by Senator Obama, Senator McCain was glad to point it out for all of us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As you may know, not long ago, a couple of hundred thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I'll take the roar of 50,000 Harleys any day, any day my friends. This is my first time here, but I recognize that sound. It's the sound of freedom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: There you go, Campbell, sending the point home right there. John McCain is all about freedom -- the goal of this stagecraft.
BROWN: All right, Erica. Then I saw Cindy McCain there in the shot with him, as well. What kind of reception did she get?
HILL: Great reception, Campbell. The crowd was very enthusiastic, especially when she spoke about her sons who were serving in the military. John McCain, though, took it a step further. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, I was looking at the Sturgis schedule and noticed that you have a beauty pageant. And so, I encouraged Cindy to compete. I told her with a little luck she could be the only woman ever to serve as both the first lady and "Miss Buffalo Chip."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Which would be quite a dubious distinction. I'm pretty sure the senator knows this. But to be "Miss Buffalo Chip," the runners-up tend to be not only in bikinis, but the winners generally, well, they're topless.
Anyway, the whole production was meant to drive home McCain's all-American appeal. But if you look a little deeper, definitely some very savvy stagecraft here. Get this, according to the Motorcycle Industry Council, the average motorcycle owner is a married man, about 40 years old, with an annual income of $55,000, some college or even post graduate education. And that picture suddenly looks a lot less like an outlaw of the open road and a lot more, Campbell, like a likely voter.
BROWN: The bikini-clad women appeal to all demographics, right?
HILL: It's beautiful. They really bring the country together.
BROWN: Erica Hill for us tonight. Erica, thanks.
And plenty of political horsepower there for our panel tonight. Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Madison and Gloria Borger joining me once again.
So Joe Pagliarulo...
JOE PAGLIARULO, RADIO/TV TALK SHOW HOST: Yes.
BROWN: ... does this whole motorcycle thing, does it work for John McCain? Should he be spending more time at biker rallies?
PAGLIARULO: I think he probably should put some jeans on or something. What did he have? Tacky pants on, some blue checkers?
I mean, look, I understand what he's going for. It didn't really work. He should have learned what that Buffalo Chip contest was really all about. But I get where he's going with it.
Because as Erica said, the average biker isn't that, you know, long-haired dude who hasn't had a job in a while and who's beating people up in the side of the road.
He's a guy, you know, who's making $55,000 plus. He's somebody who's probably going to go and vote in November. It was a good try, but it just didn't fit the image for me, although he did look a little bit of a tough biker dude for a minute there. Didn't he, Campbell?
BROWN: Well, I'm not sure I agree with you, Joe. I mean, Gloria, I think we're so used to seeing John McCain sort of holding court everyday at the same town hall meeting, that at least this rally gave us a better picture. It seemed to be a better piece of stagecraft. Do you think this is part of a new strategy?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I do. I think the McCain campaign is paying a lot more attention to the photo opportunities and who John McCain is with and what voters he's appealing to, and not just appearing before these sort of bland backgrounds, you know, which say vote for McCain on them. So this is good. However, on the demographic front, I'm not so sure this is going to appeal to those Hillary Clinton voters he's trying to go after.
BROWN: Don't go -- don't go there yet because we're coming back to that in our next round. But I wanted to go to Joe Madison, and take a look at this, Joe Madison.
JOE MADISON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: OK.
BROWN: This is what Maureen Dowd wrote about Obama in the "New York Times" today. She said that, "Many Americans, especially blue collar, still feel uneasy about the Senate's exotic shooting star. Can Obama overcome his pride and Hyde Park hauteur and win America over? How does he do that, Joe?
MADISON: What is Hyde Park what?
BROWN: Hauteur. I guess --
(LAUGHTER)
PAGLIARULO: I'll answer it if you want.
BROWN: Hyde Park working class voters.
MADISON: Where? I mean, he just -- is that where he moved to? Or is what that they're talking about? You know what?
PAGLIARULO: His highbrow campaigning, Joe. Come on, you know what it means.
MADISON: You know, first of all, I've got to go back to McCain, man. I mean --
PAGLIARULO: He was rocking that rally. Leave him alone.
MADISON: I mean, that was fun. I mean, that was fun and the reality --
BROWN: Well, OK.
MADISON: Look, look --
BROWN: So, Joe, should he put on a biker jacket and do a little rally himself?
MADISON: Oh, whom? Obama?
BROWN: Yes.
MADISON: Sure, and I think he ought to put on some overalls and he ought to go to the farmers. And I think he ought to go in front of an empty steel plant and I think he ought to take a page from Bobby Kennedy's campaign and show up at coal mines and say, look, I'm African-American. Yes, my name is Barack Obama, but we've got a lot of things in common. I cannot understand this thing about him being an elitist. Here's a kid that has --
PAGLIARULO: He is.
MADISON: Excuse me. Here's a kid that --
BROWN: Well, here's the question.
MADISON: Here's a kid, his mother was on welfare. Wait a minute.
BROWN: All right. Hold on, now.
MADISON: A kid whose mother was on welfare.
BROWN: That was how he grew up, Joe. In fairness, here's the question. This is a reality check you should all address is that they're both trying to be regular Joes here.
PAGLIARULO: Right.
BROWN: But do people really buy that? They're both millionaire candidates?
MADISON: How can you be an elitist from the South Side of Chicago?
PAGLIARULO: I'm going to be more --
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: Wait a minute -- when your father and your grandfather, when your grandfather were admirals?
PAGLIARULO: I'm going to be more honest with Joe Madison tonight.
MADISON: I mean, give me a break.
PAGLIARULO: I'm going to be more honest with Joe Madison tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: You know it. Joe, you know --
BROWN: Pagliarulo, you get -- Gloria, you get the final word.
MADISON: Joe, you know what is the code word. You know what is the code word.
BROWN: OK, come on. Pagliarulo has the floor. Go, Joe. PAGLIARULO: Here's the thing, I will admit right here live on television on CNN that John McCain did not pull it off. You will not admit that Barack Obama's going to be somebody he's not.
MADISON: But he's not an elitist.
PAGLIARULO: Yes, he is.
BROWN: It's not about elitist, though.
Gloria, you address this. I mean, they both -- you know, Obama and his wife Michelle, I mean, they certainly have a nice life in Chicago. John McCain is married to a woman with an enormous amount of money.
PAGLIARULO: Yes.
BROWN: I mean, they're not regular Joes.
BORGER: No, I mean, they're not. I mean, although I did point out --
BROWN: We don't want our presidents to be regular Joes.
BORGER: Well, I would point out that Obama and his wife --
PAGLIARULO: What's wrong with the name, Joe, Campbell?
BROWN: OK, don't take it personally, Joes. All right. Sorry.
BORGER: That Obama and his wife just paid off their student loans a few years ago. And that John McCain is wealthy and now the Obamas are wealthy. I don't think that's the sort of decision point for most Americans whether the president is rich or not. They want to know the question you always ask in polls is does this person care about people like me?
PAGLIARULO: Right. And relate to me, right?
BORGER: And so if --
MADISON: And that's why he needs to roll up his sleeves and do -- I'm telling you, do what Bobby Kennedy did in '68.
BROWN: OK.
MADISON: That's what he really needs to do.
BROWN: Stay with me, guys. When we come back, what some working class voters are saying now about Obama. It may surprise you. We're going to touch on Gloria's point again when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Barack Obama struggled to win over working class voters during the primaries. They mostly went for Hillary Clinton. But look at this, this is according to a new Washington Post poll. Obama's 10 percent out in front of John McCain with this critical voting bloc.
And back to talk about it, Joe Pagliarulo, Joe Madison and Gloria Borger.
And Gloria, you touched on this point a moment ago and I stopped you. There was all this talk about how much trouble Obama might have appealing to those white working class voters and, look, he's doing pretty well, isn't he? What's going on?
BORGER: Well, because voters believe that he can help them solve their problems. When you look at the polls in this election, Campbell, we all thought foolishly a year ago that this election was going to be about Iraq.
Well, it's not about Iraq. It's about the economy, it's about people's personal concerns, it's about how they're going to pay for their healthcare, how they're going to pay for their gasoline.
And when you look at these voters who did like Hillary Clinton in the states of Ohio and Pennsylvania, they now say, guess what? We still want a Democrat. And if it's Barack Obama, so be it.
BROWN: Joe Pagliarulo, this could end up being a problem for McCain, couldn't it? I mean, he was counting on picking up some of those working class voters, those so-called Reagan Democrats.
PAGLIARULO: Well, I've got to tell you something. I don't think, Campbell, that's he's actually going after Hillary Clinton, her voting bloc yet. There are 18 million votes out there and I think maybe he's waiting to see if Barack Obama chooses Hillary Clinton as the vice presidential candidate.
I'm not really sure why he hasn't gone after him yet but I'll tell you this. He should be concerned about any number that Barack Obama has that much ahead of him at this point in the race. Whether they're white or middle class or black or Asian, I don't care. Anybody that Barack Obama has an advantage on, he better figure out why that's happening.
BROWN: And, Joe Madison, Hillary Clinton's going out to campaign with Obama a couple of times we found out today, now on his schedule. He's not yet closed the deal with her people. Has he?
MADISON: He hasn't closed the deal, obviously, with President Clinton, it appears.
PAGLIARULO: Definitely not.
MADISON: Yes. But, no, I don't think the deal's been closed. But, you know, they're gradually doing it. They have to be very careful because she can't go out too much because, again, you've got a large segment of people out there who are still very upset who said they'll vote for anybody but Obama because they're upset that Hillary didn't...
BROWN: Right. MADISON: ... I'm sorry that Senator Clinton did not make it. So he's got to be very careful.
BROWN: All right. Guys, sorry, we are out of time. We've got to end it there. But many, many thanks to the Joes who are so not regular.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: Thank you.
PAGLIARULO: Thank you. Thank you.
BROWN: And to Gloria, our own Gloria Borger. As always, thanks, Gloria.
Everybody else is talking about the John McCain campaign ad with Paris Hilton. Well, next, we are going to hear from Paris Hilton herself.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Come on, you knew this was coming. Paris Hilton, now featured in a John McCain attack ad on Barack Obama, is telling the world what she thinks of that ad. And here is part of her video from funnyordie.com.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARIS HILTON, ACTRESS: Hey, America, I'm Paris Hilton and I'm a celebrity, too. Only I'm not from the olden days and I'm not promising change like that other guy.
I'm just hot. But then that wrinkly white-haired guy used me in his campaign ad, which, I guess means I'm running for president. So thanks for the endorsement white-haired dude. And I want America to know that I'm like totally ready to lead.
OK, so here's my energy policy. Barack wants to focus on new technologies to cut foreign oil dependency, and McCain wants offshore drilling. Well, why don't we do a hybrid of both candidates' ideas?
We can do limited offshore drilling with strict environmental oversight while creating tax incentives to get Detroit making hybrid and electric cars. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go pick out a vice president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: I don't even know where to begin. I'm actually sort of impressed here.
That is it from the ELECTION CENTER from all of us tonight. Thanks for watching.
"LARRY KING LIVE" starting right now.
