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Lou Dobbs Tonight
New Tensions Between Clinton and Obama Supporters; Senator McCain Hammers Senator Obama Again on the Economy; Rising Anger at Sanctuary Policies; Air Force Reopens Bidding for the Massive Tanker Aircraft Program; Airlines in Chaos
Aired August 07, 2008 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Wolf.
Tonight, Hillary Clinton is back. New tensions between Clinton and Obama supporters just before the Democratic Convention.
Also rising anger at sanctuary policies for criminal illegal aliens in San Francisco and Los Angeles. Families of murder victims say those policies shielded alleged killers.
And the Air Force reopens bidding for the massive tanker aircraft program, but Boeing supporters are saying the Pentagon's new bidding rules favor Europe. All of that, the day's news and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, August 7th. Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening. Senators Obama and Clinton today tried to downplay reports that their carefully crafted image of unity is an illusion. And this after Clinton said she is looking for a way to ensure her supporters have a voice at the Democratic Convention.
Well meanwhile, Senator McCain today faced barrage of tough questions, not from Senator Obama, but from one of the viewers of this broadcast and that viewer demanding to know McCain's position on illegal immigration and the so-called North American Union. We have extensive coverage. We begin with a report by Jessica Yellin -- Jessica.
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, almost half of the delegates at the Democratic Convention are Clinton backers. Well of course, the Democratic Party wants everyone there united behind one person, Barack Obama. And it's not at all clear that will happen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
YELLIN (voice-over): Barack Obama says all is well with Senator Clinton as their staff hammer out plans for the convention.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm letting our respective teams work out the details. I don't think we're looking for catharsis. I think what we're looking for is energy and excitement about the prospects of changing this country and I think that people who supported a whole range of different candidates during the primary are going to come out of that convention feeling absolutely determined that we have got to take the White House back.
YELLIN: Senator Clinton will deliver a keynote speech at the event. And Bill Clinton's possible role is still being worked out. Another issue remains unresolved. Will Senator Clinton risk stealing the spotlight from Barack Obama by having her name placed in nomination? Some Clinton supporters are demanding she have a role call vote for history. And speaking to some of her most ardent backers, she suggested that she agrees.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What will happen at the convention in respect to you know my putting my name in nomination, a role call vote and the usual kind of process that occurs at conventions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vice president.
H. CLINTON: Well you know we're trying to work that out with the Obama campaign and with the DNC. I know from JUST what I'm hearing that there's an incredible pent-up...
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Yes, yes, yes...
H. CLINTON: ... desire and I think that you know people want to feel like OK, it's a catharsis, we're here, we did it, and then everybody get behind Senator Obama.
YELLIN: If there is a role call for Clinton, it would happen early in the day when presumably few viewers would be paying attention, but even some Clinton backers say it's the wrong move. One described it as a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
(on camera): Now Clinton is in a bit of a tight spot here. If she puts her name into nomination, some people will accuse her of being divisive. If she doesn't, some of her supporters could get upset and rebel in which case Clinton could also face criticism, sort of a no-win situation -- Kitty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Thanks, Jessica. Jessica Yellin reporting.
Well the McCain campaign today released a new Web ad and it shows old video clips of top Democrats praising McCain's character but not his policies. And among Democrats are leading Obama supporters such as Senator Tom Daschle, Senator Joe Biden, it even includes comment from Senator Obama and Senator Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H. CLINTON: I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now the McCain campaign hopes this ad will convince skeptical voters that McCain can reach across the aisle to solve the nation's problems.
Well Senator McCain today hammered Senator Obama on the economy in another effort to win the support of Independent voters. Now McCain is attempting to present himself as a maverick who's willing to break with policy to the Bush administration. Ed Henry with the McCain campaign reports from Lima, Ohio -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, John McCain was already trying to get political credit for the surge working in Iraq. What's interesting is he's now trying to take the same approach to fixing the economy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): Using the same language as the war debate, John McCain is now bound to boost the economy with tax cuts just as vigorously as he worked to send more troops to Iraq last year.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we need is an economic strategy, an economic surge, a successful economic surge to keep jobs here at home and create new ones.
HENRY: McCain also sharpened his attacks on Barack Obama mocking his lack of experience.
MCCAIN: All Americans should be proud of his accomplishments, but Washington is full of talented talkers.
HENRY: In a new refrain he charged Obama's economic approach boils down to increasing taxes and government spending.
MCCAIN: Government is too big, he wants to grow it. Taxes are too high, he wants to raise them. Congress spends too much and he proposes more. We need more energy and he's against producing it.
HENRY: McCain was particularly harsh on energy, yet again hammering the Democrat for urging Americans to inflate their tires.
MCCAIN: He's claiming that putting air in your tires is the equivalent, is the equivalent of new offshore drilling. That's not an energy plan, my friends, that's a public service announcement.
HENRY: Obama fired back that the tire gauge issue shows McCain is more interested in scoring political points than solving the crisis.
OBAMA: You have got a -- number one, John McCain pretending that that was some centerpiece of my policy as opposed to a response to a town hall meeting. Then it turns out that John McCain himself said actually inflating your tires is a smart thing to do as did President Bush.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (on camera): But the McCain camp does feel like it's scoring on energy. At a town hall meeting here, he blasted Congress for going on vacation before dealing with high gas prices. There was a huge standing ovation. And then a McCain operative turned to me and said quote, "we're kicking blank on energy." They think they have Obama on the defensive -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Ed -- Ed Henry reporting.
Well a LOU DOBBS TONIGHT viewer strongly challenged Senator McCain today on his policies on illegal immigration. She also wanted to know about McCain's position on moves to create a so-called North American Union involving the United States, Mexico and Canada. So let's hear what that LOU DOBBS TONIGHT viewer asked McCain in Lima, Ohio today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does your pro-amnesty position make you reluctant to stand against the NAFTA Super Highway and emerging North American Union, which threatens American sovereignty?
MCCAIN: No. I'm against it. It will never happen when I'm president of the United States. Thank you for that question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A quote by "Washington Times"...
MCCAIN: Go ahead, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... says that you...
MCCAIN: It will never happen as president of the United States. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) quote by "Washington Times" says that by you that amnesty...
MCCAIN: No, no, no, no, no...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... has to be an important part...
MCCAIN: No, no, no, no...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... of any immigration solution.
MCCAIN: No, no, no, no, please go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you deny that quote?
MCCAIN: No, no, please go ahead because -- go ahead I did not hear your last part of your comment please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a quote by "Washington Times" on May 29, 2003 that allegedly you said amnesty has to be an important part of any immigration solution. MCCAIN: Well let me just say, again, no North American Union will take place when I'm president of the United States nor will it be in the Congress of the United States. Thank you. Let me just say -- let me just say because it will come up again and then I will -- on immigration. My friends, our borders are broken. We have to see secure our borders. We have to secure our borders first, but we also have to have a comprehensive approach to immigration reform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now McCain insists he does not support amnesty. But at the same time McCain says illegal aliens should have a pass to legal residence in this country, so if that's not amnesty, what is it? We'll have more on this and the rest of the day's campaign news with our political panel later in the broadcast.
Now away from the campaign trail, one of the nation's most powerful Democratic mayors is in jail tonight. Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick of Detroit was sent to jail for violating his bond in a high profile perjury case. Now Kilpatrick went to Canada without the court's permission. Detroit sheriff said Kilpatrick will receive no special treatment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF WARREN EVANS, WAYNE COUNTY, MICHIGAN: We are taking whatever precautions we need to take to make sure we ensure the safety of the institution and the safety of the people that are in it. He is going to be treated as prisoners are in the county jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: And Kilpatrick is expected to spend at least one night in jail. He and his former chief of staff continues to deny charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and misconduct for allegedly lying about having an affair.
Families of murder victims furious with the sanctuary policies of San Francisco and Los Angeles for illegal aliens. We'll tell you why, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Two families from two cities tonight joined by grief and anger. Now their loved ones were allegedly gunned down by illegal alien gang members and now the families are demanding Los Angeles and San Francisco change the sanctuary policies that kept the alleged killers from being deported. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It hurts you know every day. We have to try to, you know, go on, without him.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A father overcome by grief five months after his son was killed allegedly by an illegal alien gang member protected from deportation by Los Angeles' sanctuary policy.
JAMIEL SHAW, SR., MURDER VICTIM'S FATHER: No one should go through this, you know.
WIAN: A mother and wife also grieving after her husband and two sons were gunned down in San Francisco six weeks ago. Another sanctuary law protected gang member is the only suspect.
DANIELLE BOLOGNA, WIDOW, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIMS: I'm angry as hell. (INAUDIBLE) took him. I lost the love of my life of 21 years. And none of us want to lose our kids. (INAUDIBLE) I lost my family. And I'm now kissing pictures (INAUDIBLE) pictures that aren't even -- they're not even here anymore.
WIAN: Family members and about 100 supporters rallied outside the office of Los Angeles City Councilman Jack Weiss, chair of the Public Safety Committee, demanding a vote on a law named for Jamiel Shaw, Jr. It would allow LAPD officers to arrest gang members they know were in the United States illegally before they are caught committing another crime such as those that have devastated two families.
WALTER MOORE (R), LOS ANGELES MAYORAL CANDIDATE: (INAUDIBLE) career politicians are so committed to their careers that they don't give a damn about the lives and deaths of the people of our state.
WIAN: The pressure appears to be working slowly. Councilman Weiss now says he will hold a hearing on L.A.'s sanctuary policy in October after Police Chief William Bratton (ph) clarifies the policy.
JACK WEISS (D), L.A. CITY COUNCILMAN: The chief has assured me that he's going to issue this clarification and train all of the officers in his department beginning in a couple of weeks.
WIAN: San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom recently revised parts of his city's sanctuary policy, but that's little comfort to the victims' families including Jamiel Shaw's mother, an Army sergeant.
ANITA SHAW, VICTIM'S MOTHER: Being in Baghdad, Iraq, getting the word that my son was murdered on the streets of Los Angeles to me that says a lot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The rally was sponsored by radio talk show host Doug McIntyre , a frequent guest on LOU DOBBS TONIGHT. He expressed outrage that some have said the murder victims were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. McIntyre says it's the illegal alien gang members who are in the wrong place -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Well that brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. And do you support "Jamiel's Law" and believe that L.A. City Council should stop protecting illegal alien gang members and focus on protecting citizens and those lawfully in the city? Yes or no. Cast your vote as loudobbs.com. We'll bring you the results later in the broadcast.
Now despite the recent tragic events in Los Angeles and San Francisco, cities across the country still maintain sanctuary policies. Along with Los Angeles, other major cities, New York, Chicago, Houston are all sanctuary cities. And more than 120 other cities and towns have sanctuary policies. Hartford, Connecticut is now considering an ordinances which would add it to the sanctuary list. A City Council vote on the measure is expected on Monday.
At least nine people were killed this morning when an SUV carrying suspected illegal aliens flipped over. Now the accident happened outside of Florence, Arizona. Ten other people in the vehicle were injured. The number of people in the SUV raised police suspicions that the vehicle was smuggling illegal aliens. The highway where the accident took place is a known human smuggling route.
A second chance tonight for American workers and Boeing. The Air Force has reopened the bidding process for its new tanker aircraft. Now the Air Force in March awarded the $40 million contract to the European consortium that builds Airbus. Last month the Government Accountability Office found that the Air Force procedures were flawed and now critics say the new competition may already be unfair. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Air Force needs a new plane that can deliver fuel in mid-air. It's down to the European Airbus 330 versus Boeing 767. But lawmakers from Washington State where the Boeing plane would be built said the Pentagon is changing the bid request in a substantial way that stacks the deck in favor of Airbus.
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D), WASHINGTON: Clearly giving greater benefit to a larger plane in the middle of the game would only help Airbus at Boeing's expense and that, Madame President, would be blatantly unfair.
SYLVESTER: The Pentagon reissued its call for bids after the Government Accountability Office found its previous election process was flawed. The new draft request gives extra credit to the plane with the greater refueling capability, but in the original proposal the Air Force said it was looking for a mid-size tanker and no extra points would be given for exceeding that size.
SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D), WASHINGTON: It's like saying we want to buy a mid-size car and then revising the RFP so instead of having bought a mid-size car you now end up with a minibus.
SYLVESTER: Labor groups say the Pentagon also is not taking into account the number of American jobs that could be lost if the contract goes to a foreign company.
PAUL SHEARON, INTL FED. OF PROF. & TECH. ENGINEERS: You can't low bid our technology out to the rest of the world. The impact it has on our economy is tragic and the jobs that we lose it's incomprehensible (ph).
SYLVESTER: Northrop Grumman, the European company's U.S. partner, responded to the critics saying quote, "Boeing and its supporters were not happy when the Air Force picked the more capable Northrop Grumman tanker. Boeing protested the award saying that the Air Force's acquisition process was unfair and its supporters demanded changes. The GAO agreed and Defense Secretary Gates had changes made. Now that the changes have been released, Boeing and its supporters are still not happy."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Now Boeing has another plane bigger and more expensive and with refueling capability that even the Airbus 330 that in theory it could put up for competition. And that's the Boeing 777, but Boeing supporters say to put together an entirely different based on Boeing's 777 would take months and the Pentagon has given only 45 days for the companies to put forth their bids -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: That's quite a deadline. Thanks very much. Lisa Sylvester.
Well more drastic cuts ahead for the airlines. We'll tell you what they are slashing now, so stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The chaos in the airline industry is worsening and conditions for passengers are likely to become even more miserable, if that's possible. We'll have a special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Airlines tonight are preparing for more drastic cutbacks in service. Now by the end of this year, the United States and international carriers will slash flights and eliminate more than 60 million seats. As Bill Tucker reports that is a clear sign the worse may be yet to come for the airlines and the air travelers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rising costs, economic slowdown are making for very rough skies. Globally airlines are contracting. The U.S. has the dubious distinction of leading the way lower. The number of available flights and seats in the domestic market could shrink to its lowest level in more than 10 years, according to the industry groups that monitors the aviation industry OAG and it will likely get worse.
In a survey of its members, the Association of Corporate Travel Executives found that 49 percent have cut back on travel this year already, and that two-thirds expect business travelers to ask for travel alternatives. Pointing to crowded planes, reduced flights and poor service. Another group, the Travel Industry Association found that nearly 80 percent of travelers they surveyed called the air travel system broken, and 60 percent have no confidence that it will improve anytime soon, which means that as oil prices are coming down off their peaks and airlines could get a break on fuel costs, passenger frustration is boiling over.
JULIUS MALDUTIS, AVIATION DYNAMICS: Now the problem is going to be on the revenue side. Where as before the problem was on the fuel cost side. That could have very serious implications.
TUCKER: One of those implications is the reduction in the number of deliveries of new aircraft, which in turn means an exacerbation of any economic downturn because of potential job cuts at manufacturers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: And in the survey from the Association of Corporate Traveler Executives, the executives say that the cutback in flights does affect their company's ability to meet and work face to face with manufacturers, suppliers and buyers. And Kitty, they say that is a matter of concern for them.
PILGRIM: Bill, it doesn't sound like there's any clear end in sight to this. This is a pretty tough equation, isn't it?
TUCKER: No, it's a very vicious cycle that really does feed on itself. And set it in the context of this, Kitty, this is an industry that is not back to the levels where is it was in 2000 and it is getting hammered again. So this is very tough. It's not a good time to be in the airline industry though.
PILGRIM: It certainly is not. Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Well while the airlines are slashing seats, they are also adding fees for frequent flyer programs now. Now as of today U.S. Airways will start charging between $25 and $50 to book award tickets and they are also cutting bonus miles for elite frequent flyers. Continental Airlines is also raising fees and will no longer allow frequent flyers to buy the last seat on the plane.
American Airlines added a $5 fee for booking award tickets online and American is also increasing the number of miles needed to buy frequent flyer tickets. Delta is adding a fuel surcharge of $25 to $50 for award tickets. And Northwest Airlines is adding a fuel surcharge of $25 to $100.
Well time now for some of your thoughts. Rachael wrote to us from Missouri: "For the president to suggest Texas should allow the World Court to take precedent over a criminal case in any state in our country is certainly sending us a message get used to the one world government. Wake up America."
Jim in California wrote to us: "It is a shame that President Bush was so worried about Medellin, but will not lift a finger for border patrol agents Ramos and Compean."
Ann in Arizona: "Thanks for your insight on what is going on in our country. I started watching you several months ago and think you are a breath of fresh air." They are writing to Lou. And we'll have more of your e-mail later in the broadcast. Human rights protest in Beijing, President Bush arrives in Communist China for the most controversial Olympic Games in nearly three decades. We'll have a special report next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT; news, debate and opinion, an independent view. Here again, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Communist China today accused President Bush of interfering in its internal affairs. That after President Bush said he was deeply concerned about China's record on human rights and religious freedom. And the president spoke today in Thailand just before traveling to China for the opening ceremonies at the Olympic Games. Elaine Quijano reports from Bangkok -- Elaine.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Kitty, in his strongest language of the trip, President Bush criticized China over human rights.
(voice-over): Just ahead of his visit to Beijing, President Bush tried to maintain a respectful but firm tone in chastising China for its dismal record on human rights and religious freedom.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America stands in firm opposition to China's detention of political dissidence in human rights advocates and religious activists.
QUIJANO: His speech in Bangkok had been reported on almost a full 24 hours before after the White House in a move guaranteeing news coverage took the unusual step of releasing the entire address to reporters ahead of time. The president sticking largely to the prepared text aimed carefully crafted China remarks at a dual audience. First, activists and some U.S. lawmakers who argue his Beijing visit allows China to whitewash human rights.
BUSH: I have spoken clearly and candidly and consistently with China's leaders about our deep concern over religious freedom and human rights.
QUIJANO: The president's second audience, China's government.
BUSH: ... speak out for a free press, labor rights, not to antagonize China's leaders. But because trusting its people with greater freedom is the only way for China to develop its full potential.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUIJANO (on camera): In giving his speech here in Thailand, not China, the president intentionally allowed China its big move, the summer Olympic Games. The president's next stop, Beijing where his first day will includes the opening ceremony -- Kitty? PILGRIM: Thanks, Elaine. Elaine Quijano reporting.
President Bush arrived in China earlier today. Now, a new CNN Opinion Research poll finds two thirds of Americans agree with the president's decision to attend the opening ceremony. That is in spite of the fact that an overwhelming majority of Americans are concerned about communist China. Seventy percent say China is an economic threat to this country.
Well, despite a crackdown by communist China's police, there were some protests today in China, one, a small protest by three Americans in Tiananmen Square was broken up by security police. Police blocked the trio from view with umbrellas before leading them away.
There was protest of another kind in Venezuela. A regional human rights group heard complaints from opponents of Venezuela's leftist president Hugo Chavez. The meeting came a day after violent protests in the capital of Caracas. Riot police battled protesters angry with Chavez's socialist decrees and they voiced concern that Chavez is destroying what's left of their democracy. The demonstrations began when the anti-American Chavez enacted 26 laws by decree -- those measures were similar to others that voters rejected in a referendum last December.
Is Hillary Clinton preparing for a fight at the Democratic convention? What she really wants from Barack Obama? Three of the best political analysts in the country will be here to discuss it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Joining me now are three of the best political analysts and CNN contributors in the country. We have "New York Daily News" columnist Errol Louis and Errol is also the host of the morning show WWRL in New York City. We have Democratic strategist Hank Scheinkopf and in Nashville, Tennessee Vanderbilt University law Professor Carol Swain. And Carol served as an advisor to Mike Huckabee's campaign.
So we're all in a very good position to talk politics tonight. Let's start with the great question of Clinton, which really surfaced today, in a number of ways. Clinton won 18 million votes. Some supporters think she should have a role at this convention and she should actually be on the ballot. Hank, what's your idea on this.
HANK SCHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Generally the nominee determines a great deal of what happens at the convention. This is great grist for the Republicans to make all kinds of trouble and great grist for those who don't like Barack Obama within the Democratic Party. It's not helpful to Democrats. The nominee has these choices. This is an unfair expectation and they ought to cut it out.
PILGRIM: But it may not just be Republicans who are making trouble. Some of Hillary Clinton's own supporters are saying this is a moment in history that has to be recognized. Let's get Carol's thoughts on this. CAROL SWAIN, VANDERBILT PROFESSOR: I don't know anything short of Senator Clinton being on the ticket will satisfy her followers. Senator Obama definitely needs to appease the people and the price for appeasing them may be a place for her on the ticket.
I'd like to draw something that Clinton said at a fund-raiser in California last week when asked by her supporters to consider putting her name on the ballot. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
H. CLINTON: I know from what I'm hearing there's an incredible pent up desire and I think that people want to feel like, OK, it's a catharsis, we're here, we did it and everybody get behind Senator Obama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: He talked to supporters on the plane on the campaign today and he said talks with Clinton staff is seamless and change is more important than catharsis and this great discussion of catharsis. In a certain way, part of unity is critical, isn't it, Errol?
ERROL LOUIS, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Absolutely. I don't think a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters got the memo about change and catharsis. There's a lot of sentiment out there. We did an online poll on my radio show and we asked who should be the running mate. We gave Biden, Bayh and Tim Kaine from Virginia. All the calls were for Hillary Clinton. There are a lot of people still in love with her. Their catharsis has not been expressed. It doesn't help frankly to have a former President Clinton and Hillary Clinton making some of the statements that they have which are equivocal. They are not absolute. They haven't lanced the boil. They haven't seen this catharsis, they haven't made it happen. There's some kind of game being played and I don't think the Clintons are entirely blameless.
SWAIN: I think what's going on is a lot of Clinton supporters feel it was not a fair fight. She lost in a fight that wasn't fair. So, they are wounded to a large degree. Something needs to be done to appease them, I don't know what. I don't think an Obama-Clinton ticket is a winning ticket but he needs her supporters.
PILGRIM: I have to say, this was such a tightly fought primary season, it's very hard to deescalate from that kind of an emotion because it really was very closely fought. Let me show your viewers the response to this. Clinton and Obama released a joint statement yesterday evening saying that the two are working together to make sure the fall campaign and convention are a success. And here is what the joint statement says.
"At the Democratic convention we will ensure that the voices of everyone who participated in this historic process are respected and our party will be fully unified heading into the November election."
Now what does that do? Hank, you had some thoughts. SHEINKOPF: What it does is it tries to bring everybody together. Party unity is critical. People have to make a basic decision. Watch the Republicans laugh and keep talking about how the Democrats have to do something or get together to work against $5 a gallon gas, see what I mean, at the gas pump. Will the Republicans continue to laugh? You bet. And as this goes on John McCain has plenty of opportunity to do what? To attack Barack Obama for being an elitist. Which blends into the same problems.
PILGRIM: Let's talk about McCain today. He definitely has his uphill climb, too, with issues. He was in Ohio today. He was in front of DHL, they lost 8,000 jobs. And he has to deal with this economy and the whole discontent with what's happening and the fact that he has a Republican legacy. He does not have an easy row. Carol, any thoughts on this?
SWAIN: Well, I think the fact he was in front of them, showing sympathy will go a long way. He was in the right place at the right time, but Republicans are simply not trusted by working class people to have concerns about them.
PILGRIM: McCain is calling for an economic surge. These campaign slogans are very memorable, very nice, but the details are important.
LOUIS: If the Obama camp has any sense at all, they will pass on this DHL deal. It was a top McCain adviser that helped push the deal through. It was McCain himself who helped make the deal possible. This gets to the heart of what they have been saying all along. His stance on free trade is detrimental and can cost jobs and this is a perfect example of it. If they don't make a big deal out of it, they are missing an opportunity, not just here, but in case after case all over the country.
PILGRIM: We reported earlier in the broadcast but I'll bring it up again the McCain camp released a new Web ad today and it is sound bites of various Democratic lawmakers praising Senator McCain. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I know Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience he will bring to the White House and Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: This is an odd strategy, does it work? Does it not work?
SHEINKOPF: It's not odd at all. It's smart. It goes back and tries to undo damage to get to where McCain was the Democrats' favorite Republican. Heading it off with Senator Clinton at the front. Very, very smart.
PILGRIM: Carol, thoughts? SWAIN: I agree it was a smart move.
LOUIS: Of course, it riles up those die hard Hillary Clinton Democrats all over again. It's not something, they are going to have to find an answer to this.
PILGRIM: Let's talk vice president pick. It's looking very important or maybe you think it's not. We had Obama's potential vice presidential pick yesterday campaigned in Indiana with Senator Bayh. Michelle Obama was with Tim Kaine. What do you think of Obama, the vice president pick and how soon it might come, Hank?
SHEINKOPF:" Very important for him for a host of reasons. If the elitist tag sticks it will be populist warfare. The Republicans have done better at that then the Democrats have. I think Evan Bayh is probably a better shot than Kaine for a host of reasons. It will ultimately get down to where it's gotten for 40 years. It will probably be the last time, it's white Catholic men. Four states, the Midwest, 500,000 votes if it's close. Evan Bayh relates a lot better than Kaine does.
PILGRIM: Carol, who do you think will help this ticket?
SWAIN: I think it has to be a white male that's older, that has military experience. Something that can reassure voters that are concerned about Senator Barack Obama's level of experience as well as those concerned about race. He has to some way reassure them. But, at the end of the day, he needs Hillary Clinton supporters if he's to stand a chance to win.
PILGRIM: Let's talk Republicans for a second. Mitt Romney keeps turning up and Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty. Errol, thoughts on that.
LOUIS: I think in both cases for McCain and Obama. In the end, something we don't like to put a lot of stock in, but it's actually true, is how well do they get along with this person. Do they trust them? It's in some ways like their number one Cabinet member to a certain extent. You have to be comfortable with them. The personal animosity you saw between McCain and Mitt Romney during the primary season, is that entirely gone yet? I don't think it is.
SWAIN: In politics, politicians can move beyond that. They do what they need to at the moment. Those rivalries can be put aside, if the goal is to win the White House.
SHEINKOPF: I have to disagree. It's never politics. It's personal. Don't bet on Pawlenty or the other fellow. That's what the Bush White House wants. They need a populist or they need somebody from the Midwest. Or they need Charlie Crist and they need it badly.
PILGRIM: We will continue to discuss this for another week or two while the Olympics take place. No one seems to be wanting to go against that competition. Errol Louis, Hank Sheinkopf, Carol Swain, thanks very much. A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. Do you support Jamiel's law that believe that L.A.'s City Council should stop protecting illegal gang members and focus on protecting citizens and those lawfully in the city. Yes or no, cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll bring the result in just a few minutes.
Coming up at the top of the hour, THE ELECTION CENTER with Campbell Brown. Campbell?
CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Kitty. Coming up in a few minutes. Brand-new friction. You have been talking about it between the Clinton and Obama camps. What role will she and her husband have at the upcoming convention. We're going to talk to one of Senator Clinton's top supporters.
Also one of the meanest attack ads we've seen in this election cycle showing a Confederate general, a Ku Klux Klansman and a Jewish congressman. You've got to see this.
All coming up. We're going to discuss that in the ELECTION CENTER tonight -- Kitty?
PILGRIM: Thanks, Campbell. We look forward to it. Please join Lou on the radio Monday through Friday for the "Lou Dobbs Show." Go to loudobbsradio.com to find the local listings for the "Lou Dobbs Show" on the radio.
Are the United States and the Iraqi government close to a timetable? We'll talk to CNN military analyst General David Grange. Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: Reports tonight that the United States and Iraq could be nearing an agreement on the withdrawal of all our troop ins just over three years. Now Iraq's deputy foreign minister calls for the withdrawal of our combat troops by the end of 2010. The Iraqi officials say other U.S. troops would leave Iraq by 2011. U.S. officials though say there are unresolved issues. Joining me now is General David Grange. General Grange, what do you make of the reports?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think a timeline is probable. It depends on if things change with the spikes in violence, the Shia militia's. If the Anbar Province sheikhs change their mind, if the awakening falls through. There are a lot of conditions. But right now, it seems like a feasible timetable. Keep in mind, we'll always have some type of U.S. presence there as trainers at least or to provide the support the Iraqi military does not have.
PILGRIM: What's your assessment of the level of skill of the Iraqi security forces?
GRANGE: On readiness, it varies. It's just like any military. As an example, if your job is to protect infrastructure, it's a security and surveillance type task, it' a simple task in a way compared to a maneuver element where you go into Basra and clear hundreds of buildings full of insurgents. So the levels of readiness are different and different units have different tasks. It's going to vary throughout the Iraqi Army just like the American Army.
PILGRIM: This is a win-win situation for the Iraqis as well as the United States to be able to manage this withdrawal properly and with great security. The head of the joint IED organization is reporting that roadside bomb attacks in Iraq on U.S. troops have fallen significantly over the past few months. Attacks in July were reported in the teens. It's a 50 percent decrease in IED attacks from the peak.
This is clearly a sign of progress. Do you think that this is sustainable?
GRANGE: It is sustainable, but keep in mind, several reasons for this. One, the initial IED countermeasures were mostly technical. In other words, how do you counter garage door or cell phone triggering devices for the IED, as an example? It was tech, countertech, countertech. Now it's human dimension, using people, the population to give you actionable intelligence to go out after the cells and get rid of them.
Also working different types of psychological informational operations to disrupt or discredit those leaders that do that. That's the biggest reason for the success right now.
PILGRIM: They are rising, however, in Afghanistan, these types of attacks. I'd like to quote general -- NATO commander General David McKiernan today, he said the situation in Afghanistan, he describes it as a major destabilizing factor. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. DAVID MCKIERNAN, NATO COMMANDER, AFGHANISTAN: One of the fundamental reasons why we're seeing an increased level in violence in Afghanistan this year is because of the militant sanctuaries that exist across the Pakistan in the tribal areas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: We see Pakistan at a new level of instability. Political unrest, the Pakistani government is moving to impeach President Musharraf. How do you assess the situation there, especially in light of this political turmoil?
GRANGE: Well, it's a very tough set. Two things, though, first of all, back to the IEDs, that's because the population's not reporting and giving us the information. That's the reason for the IEDs. Back to Pakistan, historically, any time you had a sanctuary you cannot win a counterinsurgency fight. So something has to be done with the sanctuaries.
Now, the problem is, you can't go in there because you'll start another war. And so do we want to have three wars or we might as well do Iran as well and just make it a whole regional war. You can't do that right now.
So what you have to be is savvy in how you bring them out of the sanctuary to kill them or capture them. And so there's going to have to be some very clever work and irregular warfare tech techniques in order to win that type of situation. Or Pakistan will implode.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, General David Grange. Thank you.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
PILGRIM: A jury of six military officers today sentenced Osama bin Laden's former driver to five and a half years if prison. This follows the conviction of Salim Hamdan on charges he provided material support to al Qaeda. Hamdan has been in detention in Guantanamo Bay since 2002 and that means he could be released in less than six months.
Well, a former governor tonight is proposing an Olympics of a very different kind. We'll tell you about a bold new plan to fix our failing public education system next.
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PILGRIM: For years on this broadcast we've reported on how this country's education system is failing. An entire generation of students. It's making it difficult for our students to compete with their international counterparts.
Former West Virginia governor and president for -- of the Alliance for Excellent Education, Bob Wise, says students are failing behind in what he calls education Olympics. Starting next week Wise will launch an online video campaign to draw attention to this country's education crisis. Bob Weiss is also a former congressman and has contributed to Senator Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign and he joins me now. Thanks for being with us.
BOB WISE, ALLIANCE FOR EXCELLENT EDUCATION: Good to be here.
PILGRIM: I have to say I read your book "Raising the Grade," it's excellent. It has some very common sense solutions and a very in-depth analysis of what's going wrong. You know, I was quite shocked. I know how bad our education system is. We've done extensive reporting. But only 70 percent of our students are graduating from high school. And you say this needs a federal solution. What would you like to see?
WISE: What I want to see the federal government apply the same effort that we've done for -- that we'll do for energy, that we'll do for the environment, that we did for Sputnik because we have to recognize a third of our students will not graduate from student but another third will finish but without the skills they need for college or the modern workplace. So that at the end of the day two out of three of our children finish their high school years not ready for international competition. The reason I launched the online video campaign, doing this sort of live coverage so called from the Olympics is to link in people's mind our athletic performance where we win the gold, the medal, the bronze. Our educational performance particularly in our high school student where unfortunately we're having difficulty getting to the winner stand.
PILGRIM: We certainly are. The international rankings were very much an eye-opener for me. And let's let our viewers in on this. High school graduation rate in the United States now ranks 13th in terms of -- in international rankings. Used to be first. We also have college graduation rates in the United States. It ranks 15th. It used to be second. We have absolutely slipped internationally. You know, you brought up Sputnik, which seems a very dated reference but there was a very big push at that moment for federal advancement of education.
WISE: The very first time Congress ever linked our national security to education was the launching of Sputnik. And also kicked off the National Defense Education Act, training hundreds of thousands of student, sending them to science and math. Of course, President Kennedy inspired the country by saying a man on the moon in 10 years and we got there. We can do the same thing in education. It's just like once again, like the Olympics, though, we have to -- like our athletes, we have to apply the same kind of dedication.
And we have to recognize that we also have to change some things. This is -- Olympic athletes train to an international standard. Our schools have to be doing the same thing.
PILGRIM: Well, that makes a good deal of sense. I'd like to quote from your book because it is so excellent. I'd like to put it up for our viewers. You wrote, "An all-out push to reinvent the American high school experience would also reactivate our own democratic values, reconnecting a disenfranchised public with the public education system that helped make our country great. An excellent education can and must resume its standings as the great equalizer of opportunity."
You talk about high school education a lot in your book. You think that's the key, don't you?
WISE: I think it's an important part of it. The reason I don't talk about the others is because our country has been focusing on early grades, as we should, pre-K all the way through grade three and four, and getting kids into college. What I came to realize through 25 years of public service is I came to realize we missed a segment, it's the middle. We missed the middle and high school years. And so we need to treat education as a continual process, not just one where you focus on one particular grade level.
PILGRIM: I was particularly struck by the funding figures for -- let's put those up. We have $18 billion are spent on pre-K through six programs but that drops to $2 billion for middle school and $3 billion for high school. That's federal funding. What do you think it should be? How much should we push? Should we have equal on all three levels?
WISE: First, I don't want to take one penny from pre-K but what I do want to do is do smart investments. I'm not interested in spending one additional tax dollar just to make a bad system more expensive. I am looking at strategic investments to cut the dropout rate to be cut at least in half in the last 10 years and we can do that for $5 billion a year.
PILGRIM: What kind of strategic investment?
WISE: Strategic investment, federal government works with the state and local school districts, identifies the lowest performing high schools, 2,000 high schools in this country contribute half the dropouts in this country. We know where they are. So what -- develop a plan to go turn each of them around. That alone, would result in $45 billion in additional tax revenue or federal tax savings to the federal government. So there are initiatives that we have to have the will.
PILGRIM: We hope -- that everyone reads your book. It's excellent. Thank you so much for coming on the broadcast -- Governor Bob Wise. Thank you.
Tonight's poll results: 99 percent of you support Jamiel's Law and believe that L.A. City Council should stop protecting illegal alien gang members and focus on protecting citizens and those lawfully in the city.
We do have time for some more of your thoughts and thousands of you are writing in about Congress' decision to go on vacation.
Donna in Georgia writes: "Shame is the kind of word I can use for the most arrogant, self-serving Congress. They go on vacation while most Americans cannot afford a vacation. They leave Americans struggling and hanging on while they continue their gluttonous ways. It is time for them to conserve and tighten their belts. P.S., time for Congress to get paid an hourly wage."
And we heard from Robert in California: "Lou, Your poll asks if the airlines are incapable and need government regulation. Well, the answer is Yes! But what about the oil companies and our Congress who needs American public regulation?"
M.K. in Alabama wrote: "The Airlines aside, Congress is a national disgrace for going on a five week holiday while the rest of their fellow citizens sweat out the gas crisis. I don't know what it will take to get those dunkerheads to do some work. With the lowest rating in American history they should be ashamed to take a paycheck."
And Richard in Missouri wrote to us: "Lou, I watch your television show each evening. You tell it like it is and keep me well informed and I too am now an independent voter."
We love hearing from you. Send us. Your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. The "ELECTION CENTER" with Campbell Brown starts right now -- Campbell?
BROWN: Thanks, Kitty.
