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Nancy Grace
Supposed Baby-Sitter in Missing Toddler Case Located
Aired August 07, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell! A sworn search warrant just released reveals stunning information against mom, Casey, including lie after lie she told police about Caylee`s disappearance, including her story the baby-sitter called mom, Casey, from a private number and put little Caylee on the phone. We now know from phone records no such call ever took place. She lied.
And we learn the grandmother finds mom, Casey`s, slacks in the abandoned car just before cops arrived. The slacks smell like a dead body. Grandmother, Cindy, unwittingly washes them. Was any forensic clue destroyed forever?
And for the second time in 48 hours, the lead detective and real "CSI" back to the Anthony home, reportedly leaving with a suitcase stuffed with mom, Casey`s, clothing, that evidence now at the FBI crime lab for DNA testing as dive teams join the search for Caylee.
And tonight, the Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments is found and has never even met little Caylee. Arraignment set down August 21 as mom, Casey, enters a plea of not guilty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has your life been like?
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, DOESN`T KNOW CAYLEE OR CASEY: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less because they know my name. And so they know my name. Everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news. So I`ve not been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everyone`s just judging me by my name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the case of missing 2- year-old toddler Caylee Anthony. The supposedly baby-sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez, has reportedly has been found, and she says she has never even heard of Casey Anthony or Caylee. In an interview with a local Orlando TV station, Zenaida says her life has been ruined by this and she can`t get a job just because of her name being affiliated with this story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe she has no involvement. My understanding is that this person has come forward, and she said, you know, she doesn`t want to be bothered anymore. She`s sick and tired of people mentioning her name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also happening today, police for the fourth time came to the Anthony home and left with items from inside of the house. Reports say much of what has been collected was from a suitcase Casey Anthony was using up until the time she was arrested for lying to police and failing to report Caylee missing.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I don`t know if you guys have checked through, like, some of the bags and stuff that I have at the house with me, if maybe it was in one of those purses. But I know I kept everything that I had kind of centralized at Tony`s.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In addition, police have released the search warrant executed on the home yesterday detailing how Anthony`s phone records show nobody by the name of Zenaida Gonzalez. And there was no private phone call received on July 15, as Casey Anthony claimed she received. Also included in the search warrant is details of how, before cops arrived, Caylee`s grandmother, Cindy Anthony, removed a pair of pants from Casey Anthony`s car and washed them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, now not seen for six long weeks. Bombshell. A sworn search warrant just released reveals stunning information against mom, Casey, including lie after lie to police about Caylee`s disappearance. In the last hours, the lead detective and a real-life "CSI" back at the Anthony home, leaving with bags of evidence.
And tonight, the Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments is found. And she`s never even heard of little Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you say to Casey Anthony?
GONZALEZ: I mean, why would you choose my name? Of all of the people in Florida, why would you choose my name? You know, if I don`t know you, never met you, why would you choose my name, make my life impossible? You know, right now, my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name, of all people. To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I`ve never met them. You know, I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes -- you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a shocking development, a local Orlando TV station has just completed an interview with the alleged Zenaida Gonzalez that visited the apartment complex where Casey Anthony says she last saw Caylee. Gonzalez goes into detail about how she has been approached by investigators at least three times and has never even met Casey Anthony or Anthony`s 2-year-old daughter, Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding is that she was spoken to twice, and both times, she`s dispelled any concerns that we had as to her involvement with Caylee or Casey. She`s been cooperative. But I cannot officially say that she`s been ruled out because, again, I don`t know that. I have not had a chance to talk to the detectives concerning that.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said that the person that you dropped Caylee with doesn`t even exist.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because -- oh, look, they can`t find her in the Florida database. She`s not just from Florida. If they would actually listen to anything that I would have said to them, they would have had their lead. They maybe could have tracked her down. They haven`t listened to a (DELETED) that I`ve said.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators have just complete obtaining more items from home after Caylee`s grandparents reportedly asked police to come to the home because they located items that might be of interest to them. Another report suggests that detectives have previously collected items from the Anthony home that were from a suitcase that Casey Anthony was using, with many of those items expected to be tested for stains and microscopic evidence at the FBI crime lab.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I`ve got news for you, Casey Anthony. The police have listened to the words you`ve said. It`s all right here in a sworn search warrant. They`ve listened and they have investigated, and they have found out that nearly everything you told them, trying to help them find your daughter, is a lie -- lie after lie after lie.
Two incredibly disturbing lies in the sworn affidavit. Number one, remember mom, Casey, says she spoke to little Caylee, that the baby-sitter called her from a private number, she put little Caylee on the phone for just a minute? She told us so dramatically. They got the phone records. No such phone call ever came in.
Then we learn at the back of this search warrant, a seven-page sworn search warrant, that grandmother, Cindy Anthony, gets to the car before police and finds in it a pair of pinned-striped gray slacks. They belong to mom, Casey, last seen wearing them the last day Caylee was ever seen alive. They smelled like a dead body. Mom, Casey`s, pants smelled like a dead body. Unwittingly, Cindy Anthony washes the pants.
Out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. Tell me the latest.
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the latest is, Nancy, that search warrant, of course, executed. We`ve seen what it says. And literally, it is a web of lies, lies about her employment at Universal, of course, Zenaida Gonzalez, you know, as well, dropping the child Caylee off with Zenaida. And I know a little bit later on in the show, we`ll have Louis Bolden from Channel 6, who had an interview with her. Also, that private phone call that was made in the middle of July, July 15 -- there`s no private phone call that came in. At the time, Casey telling...
GRACE: It`s all a lie.
WILLIAMS: ... investigators that she talked to Zenaida and then she also talked to Caylee, and as we know, a big, fat lie. But the big breaking news today down here in central Florida is the fact that Cindy Anthony told investigators about the gray slacks that she found in that Pontiac Sunbird, which was located on the floorboard in the rear. And, some boots and some shoes.
Now, being the dutiful mother that Cindy Anthony is, she took those slacks out of the car, washed them, and then she put them in Casey`s room. That was before investigators got to them. Again, she said that -- she almost reiterated her phone call that she first made to 911, those pants smelled like a dead body. I mean, that is incriminating evidence from the word go.
GRACE: Do we know, Mark Williams, did she launder them at a dry cleaner, or did she wash them in the washing machine?
WILLIAMS: I would assume that she had them just washed there in the washing machine. Living in the neighborhood they have, everybody has a washer and dryer. And it was just a deal where she took the pants and just popped them into the machine, like you or I would do when we`re at home.
GRACE: Out to Anjali Swenton, president and CEO of Scilawforensics, Limited, joining us out of Washington. Anjali, thank you for being with us. Quick question. If there is DNA, such as blood, bodily fluids on a pair of slacks and you put them through the washing machine, does it forever destroy the DNA?
ANJALI SWENTON, PRES. AND CEO SCILAWFORENSICS LTD.: Well, Nancy, that depends. It certainly doesn`t help the situation and doesn`t make the laboratory`s job any easier. But DNA is a pretty robust molecule, and it tends to sort of bro (ph) into material, like, I don`t know if these pants were jeans or...
GRACE: Sounds like gray slacks.
SWENTON: ... corduroy or -- OK. Well, so we don`t know what the material of...
GRACE: Pin-striped. It said pin-striped, which leads me to think maybe it goes with a suit.
SWENTON: OK.
GRACE: So I thought maybe they were laundered.
SWENTON: Well, yes, that was a good question. And I guess we don`t know. But if Cindy just washed them in a regular washing machine with detergent, it is possible that if there was DNA on the pants, that some of the material is still embedded in the fabric. There certainly have been reported cases where attempts have been made to wash an item and DNA was still recovered.
GRACE: How about if they were laundered at a dry cleaner?
SWENTON: I don`t know what specific chemicals a dry cleaner would use, and if they used something different than just a regular detergent, that may have an impact on the recovery. It would have to depend on what specifically was used.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live.
Back out to Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk. Mark, another thing I learned from going over the search warrant with a fine-tooth comb -- you know how we learned at the get-go that mom, Casey, had told police that the baby-sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez, lived at apartment 210, Sawgrass apartments. That`s not all she told them. She went on a wild goose chase and took them to three different locations. It sounds as if she was just driving along the street with cops and goes, Oh, yes, that`s where she lived one time. I took my kid there one time. That place turned out to be a senior citizens living high-rise or apartment where only seniors could live, OK? That was a lie.
Then she took -- she took them on a wild goose chase to this condo complex, and they were driving around, going, Which condo was it you dropped your child off at in the past? They went to three separate ones and finally said, Why can`t you find it? She said, Well, I came here so many times, I don`t remember the address.
So she came so many times, why couldn`t she take them to where Zenaida Gonzalez, the baby-sitter, lived with possibly little Caylee there? It was a huge wild goose chase, ending in Sawgrass apartments.
WILLIAMS: Yes, and that`s -- that`s the big thing. Now, here`s one thing that was revealed this afternoon. Again, you`ll have Louis Bolden from Channel 6 on the show a little bit later on. But in the interview I saw earlier this evening, he had an interview exclusively with Zenaida Gonzalez. They don`t show her face, but they show her -- they have an -- her voice not altered at all.
But she says she has had a tough time. She has no idea why Casey Anthony ever picked her name out. She admits that she was at the apartment complex, the Sawgrass apartment complex, on the 17th of June. But she was at several apartment complexes that day. Investigators have showed her pictures of Casey and Caylee. She has never met nor have never seen these two individuals, either Casey or Caylee. And they`ve talked to her at least three times.
GRACE: Speaking of Zenaida Gonzalez, the Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments has been found and basically cleared. She`s never met Casey or Caylee Anthony, has never even heard of them until now. Take a listen to what Zenaida Gonzalez had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has your life been like?
GONZALEZ: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less because they know my name. And so they know my name. Everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news. So I`ve not been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everyone`s just judging me by my name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you say to Casey Anthony?
GONZALEZ: I mean, why would you choose my name? Of all of the people in Florida, why would you choose my name? You know, if I don`t know you, never met you, why would you choose my name, make my life impossible? You know, right now, my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name, of all people. To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I`ve never met them. You know, I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes -- you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us right now live outside of the Anthony home is our producer, Natisha Lance. Natisha, what can you tell me about real-life CSI and the lead investigator on the case showing up at the Anthony home today? What did they take from the home?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, CSI did come again today, this time without a search warrant. They came at about 11:00 this morning. Lead investigator Sergeant John Allen (ph) was here, as well as a mediator of sorts, who was his boss. He said that he was trying to kind of mediate and massage the relationship that has gone a little bit off track.
As to what they`ve taken, we don`t know exactly at this point, but we think that they probably took those slacks that you were talking about earlier.
GRACE: It`s my understanding -- to Nikki Pierce with WDBO -- that they took items, clothing items that had been in a suitcase there in the Anthony home, all clothing belonging -- most all clothing belonging to mom, Casey, Anthony.
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: In that search warrant, that`s correct. In that search warrant, there was a list clothing -- three different pairs of pants, several shirts and skirts. They didn`t specify the color of those, so I don`t know if the gray pants were included, but I would certainly assume so.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We`re taking your calls live. Joining us tonight, Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor out of Atlanta, Richard Herman, veteran defense attorney out of New York, and defense attorney, veteran trial lawyer Peter Odom joining us out of Atlanta.
To you Eleanor Dixon. Weigh in.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I think that those pants are going to be key, but also the other clothing. It`s not just the pants. They`re going to take the clothing...
GRACE: You`ve seen the return on the search warrant? What did you learn?
DIXON: Exactly. We learned the shirts that they`ve taken, skirts and pants, as well, and jeans, too. So all of those pieces of clothing may yield some type of forensic evidence.
GRACE: Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, even if they find DNA on those pants, remember that these two lived together. That DNA -- the young kid`s, Caylee`s, DNA is going to be all over that house. So that`s not necessarily going to tell you anything about what happened to her.
GRACE: Well, that`s a legitimate point, Peter Odom. But Richard Herman, this is a hypothetical to combat what Odom just said. If you find blood on the slacks that Casey -- mom, Casey -- had on the last day Caylee was seen alive, that would be bombshell evidence. I mean, you`ve got to look at not only the fact that they lived together, but you`d have to look at where the DNA`s found, what type of DNA it is, the context in which it comes to be on the article.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. But like Mr. Odom just said, you know, the last day they saw her was June 15. This is now august 7. News teams, the public, press have been in that house. I think that the crime scene`s been corrupted.
GRACE: Oh, please, Richard...
HERMAN: I`m not so excited...
GRACE: ... do you really think...
HERMAN: ... about it, Nancy...
GRACE: ... the press has been digging through her clothes closet? I don`t think so.
HERMAN: I don`t know, but that crime scene has not been preserved.
GRACE: All right, Johnnie Cochran!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was shown the photo, and she did not recognize this person. My understanding is that this person has come forward and she said, you know, she doesn`t want to be bothered anymore. She`s sick and tired of people mentioning her name.
We believe she has no involvement. I think that we don`t know exactly how it is that her name, was it coincidence, or -- but we don`t think that she`s involved at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has your life been like?
GONZALEZ: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less because they know my name. And so they know my name. Everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news. So I`ve not been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everyone`s just judging me by my name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the bombshell evidence found in a sworn search warrant just released by Orange County sheriff`s office.
Also tonight, there`s been a big rumor swirling as to the paternity of little Caylee. Joining us tonight, attorney Brian Crews. He`s joining us out of Orlando, Florida. He`s the attorney for the family of Jesus Ortiz (ph), rumored to be the father, the bio father of little Caylee. Brian, thank you for being with us.
BRIAN CREWS, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF MAN RUMORED TO BE CAYLEE`S DAD: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Brian, how did this report originate?
CREWS: Nancy, we don`t know. It`s pure speculation and conjecture that Jesus Ortiz was the father of missing Caylee. So the family asked me to come tell the nation this and that they absolutely don`t have any information how this got started.
GRACE: Well, let me ask you this, Brian. Didn`t they go to high school together?
CREWS: They did go to high school together, but does that make him the father?
GRACE: And he did die in a car crash? He did die in a car crash?
CREWS: He sure did, about a year ago.
GRACE: Right. I think those two pieces were put together, and two plus two ended up equaling five. So the family is definitely, without a doubt, stating he is not the bio father?
CREWS: They`ve never met the mother. They`ve never met Caylee. They just have no information. They don`t have any other information about this
GRACE: Are they being harassed about this?
CREWS: Oh, certainly. The media has been there day in and day out. And they`re -- they`re being brought in this, much like that other lady was brought into it, and they don`t want to be part of it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had gone to the apartment and she had signed the guest card, and so that`s where we felt that we needed to speak to her a couple of times. And my understanding is that she was spoken to twice, and both times, she`s dispelled any concerns that we had as to her involvement with Caylee or Casey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. To Elizabeth in Alabama. Hi, Elizabeth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s really good to speak to you.
GRACE: Likewise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With all of the reward money, if little Caylee was alive, don`t you think someone would have turned it in?
GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. A quarter of a million dollar, $225,000, almost a quarter million dollars, reward being offered, 1-800-423-TIPS.
Out to Sergeant Scott Haines with Santa Rosa County, Florida. In your experience, with a reward this big, if she was out there and somebody knew, wouldn`t they come forward?
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA CO., FLORIDA: Absolutely. I work actually closely with central Florida Crime Line. I think the reward would be present (ph) whether they find her alive or dead. I just think the only person who knows this information is the mother.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOUIS BOLDEN, REPORTER, WKMG: What has your life been like?
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less, they know my name. And so they know my name, everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news.
So I haven`t been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everybody is just judging me by my name.
BOLDEN: What would you say to Casey Anthony?
GONZALEZ: Why me? Why would you choose my name of all of the people in Florida? Why would you choose my name? You know, because I don`t know you, never met you. Why would you choose my name and make my life impossible? You know right now my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name of all people.
To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I never met them. You know I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes, you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: The Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments has been located. There you see an interview with her. Long story short, she`s never even heard of little Caylee or mom Casey Anthony.
Out to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers" -- Dr. Bethany, I`m sure by now you`ve had a chance to read this affidavit, this search warrant, a sworn search warrant where police, the sheriff`s office really reveals a lot of their investigation. They`re all over it.
This woman leads police along in an extremely bold manner. For instance, she says the outcry witnesses. Under the law, when a crime has occurred, the first few people you tell about it as a victim are called outcry witnesses. She says she tells three people at Universal Studios where she works. She gets in the car with the police. They already know she`s lying. They put her on a speakerphone. And they ask her again, "You work at Universal?"
Everybody in the room hears her lying. She goes into this long story about working there, how she these other co-workers. They go OK, let`s go over there. They go get her. She gets in the car. They drive all the way over there, Bethany. They get out of car. They get to security, and the security guy says, well, who do you work for?
She gives a name. Security guy says, there`s no such person here. They let them on in with the police. They get out of the car. They walk through the complex. They go into a building. They start walking all the way down the hall.
The search warrant says she walks with a purposeful stride like she knows where she`s going. Just before they get to the door, Bethany, she goes, I don`t work, you all, I was fired a couple of years ago.
That`s very bold, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Do you know what comes through again and again is that Casey is a bully. She uses words like weapons. She uses them as objects to control other people.
Did you hear the jailhouse call? How she spoke to her own mother using the F word? Whenever friends show empathy towards the child, she says, oh, honey, whoa, whoa, whoa. You shouldn`t have called me. She fingers innocent people like Zenaida Gonzalez.
That bullying behavior -- and we could think of a lying as a way to preserve herself but I actually thinks she gets a great deal of satisfaction out of it. I think that`s why her whole family is going along with her because she has bullied them for so long.
And what does this tell us about how her little girl met her demise? Did she shake her and shake her? Did she leave her in a hot car to punish her? Did she leave her in a hot bathtub? Did she turn her over to some child abuser?
This is consistent a borderline personality disorder where there`s ragefulness, impulsivity, lack of empathy towards other people including her own child, disregard and violation of the rights of others. And I think there`s a great deal of satisfaction she`s getting.
GRACE: You know, now that you have mentioned it, Dr. Bethany, I would say satisfaction is something that you hear in her phone calls from the jail.
MARSHALL: Yes.
GRACE: I`m hearing in her ear where -- right now we`re being joined by reporter Lewis Bolden. Bolden is from CNN affiliate WKMG there in Orlando. And out of everybody, he manages to find the Zenaida Gonzalez, the babysitter that mom Casey tries to finger to police, saying this is the woman that she left her daughter with.
All right, out to you, Louis Bolden, joining us from WKMG -- Louis, how`d you find her? I know that the police had already spoken to her, but how did you find her?
BOLDEN: Well, Nancy, I`ll tell you it was not easy but this is something that we -- our entire news department has been working on for three weeks since this story broke. And you know that`s -- we`re all reporters and that`s what we do is investigate.
And so this is not something that fell into our laps today. Again, we`ve been working on this for three weeks, but today, finally, all of the pieces came together. And we were able to track her down and get that interview.
GRACE: Louis, how has this whole thing affected her life?
BOLDEN: Nancy, you have no idea what she has been going through. She has a MySpace page. She says she had been threatened on her MySpace page. She has been interviewed by detectives a number of times. And she is just, basically, trying to prove that she had nothing to do with this.
She has children of her own. She has very small children. She`s having to explain to her young children why they are staying their mother`s name, not just on local news but on national news night after night after night. So it has not been a good situation for her.
GRACE: Louis Bolden, WKMG, tracks down Zenaida Gonzalez. She says she knows nothing about mom Casey or little Caylee.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOLDEN: What has your life been like?
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less, they know my name. And so they know my name, everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news.
So I haven`t been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everybody is just judging me by my name.
BOLDEN: What would you say to Casey Anthony?
GONZALEZ: Why me? Why would you choose my name of all of the people in Florida? Why would you choose my name? You know, because I don`t know you, never met you. Why would you choose my name and make my life impossible? You know right now my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name of all people.
To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I never met them. You know I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes, you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Mr. Bolden, how many children does Gonzalez have already?
BOLDEN: She has two young daughters. She has a total of four children. And she has two young daughters. And I`m glad you brought that up because one of the things she said to detectives is, Nancy, I have children of my own. I have daughters so I don`t have to take someone else`s daughter.
GRACE: I don`t need to steal another child. I`ve got four at home, waiting for me right now. Now the woman can`t even get a job.
What did she tell police, Mr. Bolden?
BOLDEN: She has had to prove that she had nothing to do with this. I mean she has told detectives from day one, she has never seen Casey Anthony. She`s never seen Caylee Anthony. She had never heard those names.
And I just want to point out that detectives showed up at her door asking her these questions before this hit the news. And so she had no clue who these people were. Now, of course, she has seen Casey Anthony on television. She has seen Caylee Anthony. And she still maintains she has never seen them.
I showed her a picture of the car that Casey was driving. She said she had never seen that car. So she has just been trying to explain and prove.
GRACE: Right.
BOLDEN: . that she had nothing do with it.
GRACE: And clear her name.
With us, everyone, Louis Bolden from WKMG, who tracked down the Zenaida Gonzalez, attached to Sawgrass apartments.
Out to the lines, Sarah in Pennsylvania. Hi, Sarah.
SARAH, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering, wasn`t it initially reported that Casey was also -- she disappeared for about a month presumably with Caylee? I`m just wondering why didn`t Cindy report them both missing at that time?
GRACE: You know that is an interesting question. And you are correct.
Nikki Pierce with WBDO, Cindy Anthony has explained it. What did you -- what is your reporting on that?
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, initially, as you can hear in the 911 call, Cindy does say she`s been missing for 30 days and I found her. But I haven`t found my granddaughter.
What we understand is that she left the house and was staying with various people including with her boyfriend and her boyfriend has been fully cooperative with police and said that Caylee was never there or rarely there.
GRACE: And, of course, to answer the call, to Sarah in Pennsylvania, Casey -- mom Casey would call into her mother repeatedly, would text her and call her, and always have a seemingly legitimate excuse -- oh, Caylee`s already gone to bed, oh she`s at the beach, oh she`s at the amusement park with the nanny. She always had an excuse why not to put Caylee onto the phone.
Cindy Anthony became suspicious at a certain point and started asking questions. Hence, the 911 call.
Quick break, everybody. We`re taking your calls live.
As we go to break tonight, a special get-well to my brother Mac. Here he is in Times Square coming to visit the show. And here he is with baby Lucy, the first time she ever wore a boa. He gave it to her.
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(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Did you ever call the babysitter on your -- on your cell phone, ever received a call from the babysitter on your cell phone number?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I most definitely did.
L. ANTHONY: Can you give me any day or anything, whenever you think you may have received that?
C. ANTHONY: Any specific day? God, a lot of the times it was through text messages, so, I don`t know, the number would show up even on that.
L. ANTHONY: OK.
C. ANTHONY: I can`t think of any specifics. I mean, my days are all thrown together. I at least know what the day is today but as far as stuff form the last couple of months, I have no exact, you know, time or date.
BOLDEN: What would you say to Casey Anthony?
GONZALEZ: Why me? Why would you choose my name of all of the people in Florida? Why would you choose my name? You know, because I don`t know you, never met you. Why would you choose my name and make my life impossible? You know right now my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name of all people.
To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I never met them. You know I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes, you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I`m going to do whatever it takes to take advantage of the media and if it continues to drag our family through the mud and whatever, as long as Caylee`s picture`s out there every day and that picture gets engrained on everybody`s brain and they look, as long as they don`t give up, she`s coming home.
She may come home this afternoon. She may come home tomorrow. I hope that she`s home by Saturday. If she`s not, you know what, I`m not giving up just because her birthday`s Saturday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: That was this week. Caylee is not at home, obviously. A bombshell day, search warrant reveals police line of thinking their theory on the case. We see a web of lies created by mom, Casey Anthony, in the so-called search for her daughter.
Let`s go out to the lines. Christy in Washington state, hi, Christie.
CHRISTY, WASHINGTON STATE RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CHRISTY: I just wanted to say it`s wonderful to talk to you and congratulations on your beautiful babies and I just -- we just love you down here.
GRACE: Thank you, thank you so much, and thank you for calling in. What`s your question?
CHRISTY: I just want to know, can Cindy Anthony be charged with obstructing justice or worse for taking the pants and washing them?
GRACE: I doubt it. I doubt it. But before I throw that to the lawyers, to Christy in Washington state, page 4 of this sworn search warrant, it states the grandparents` thinking. It says, point blank, mom, Casey`s father George, stresses his concern. His daughter is holding back information. He and his wife, the defendant`s mother, quote, "fear something may have happened to Caylee."
Let`s unleash the lawyers to answer that question. Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor, Richard Herman out of New York, and Peter Odom, veteran defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
Eleanor, you first.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I don`t think she can be charged unless you can totally link something that she did to hinder the investigation.
GRACE: Richard?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s absolutely right, Nancy. But you know I`m not so comfortable with the mother and father in this case. I`ve got to tell you just a gut reaction here but from the mountain of lies.
GRACE: Wait, I`ve got to see Herman. You`ve got a problem with the grandparents?
HERMAN: Yes, I`ve got a little problem with them.
GRACE: And you don`t have a problem with the mother Casey?
HERMAN: I have a major problem with the mother, Nancy, from the -- not reporting her child kidnapped for 30 days. The mountain of lies to this Zenaida Gonzalez. You have a mental impaired defect defense here. It has nothing borderline with all due respect to Dr. Bethany. This girl is nuts. And she`s screaming she`s nut little to the world and this is a mountain -- this defense is enormous in this case.
GRACE: Peter Odom, being a liar does not equal a mental defect under the law.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, no, there are good liars, there are bad liars, but then are there pathological liar and she`s a pathological liar.
GRACE: That`s not.
ODOM: That mean that there`s a.
GRACE: That doesn`t rise to insanity.
ODOM: Well, it might. And certainly she lies about things she doesn`t even have to lie about. She lies about things that are easily going to be refuted. This woman has some kind of a mental problem going on.
GRACE: I agree that she`s a liar.
But, Eleanor, yes/no. Being a pathological liar, does it rise to a mental defect defense under the law?
DIXON: No, of course, it doesn`t, Nancy.
GRACE: Of course not.
DIXON: And you, of course.
GRACE: OK. Thanks guys.
DIXON: . you expect the defense to say that.
GRACE: Thanks, guys, thanks for nothing.
HERMAN: OK.
GRACE: Back out to the lines, Diane in Pennsylvania. Hi, Diane.
DIANE, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?
DIANE: I love your show and I love you. I have.
GRACE: Thank you.
DIANE: I have a question. Why was that the only piece of clothing that the grandmother chose to choose?
GRACE: Interesting. Back to Mark Williams with WNDB. I have looked at this, and I recall the pin-striped slacks, a pair of boots. What other clothing items were in the car?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, there were a pair of boots and a pair of shoes in the car in the back floor board area right alongside those gray slacks.
Now let me reiterate that the one thing that Cindy Anthony said, she opened up the car. She saw the gray slacks and it smelled like a dead body as she said in her 911 calls --initially to police. And that`s why she washed the slacks. So that`s -- that`s why she washed the slacks.
GRACE: I`m reading directly from the sworn search warrant.
Cynthia, that`s the grandmother, explains she removed a pair of gray dressed slacks from the back seat area of the car, reportedly on the rear floor board of the vehicle, with a pair of boots and a pair of shoes that reportedly belonged to Casey.
According to grandma, she removed the pants and washed them due to the fact that they smelled like the car. As she described it to us on the 911 call, like a dead body. She put the washed clothing in Casey`s bedroom.
Bye-bye forensic evidence. So there were no other clothes to wash, to Diane in Pennsylvania.
To Brandy in California, hi Brandy.
BRANDY, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy. I just love you. Thanks for asking the tough questions.
GRACE: Thank you.
BRANDY: The question is, does anybody know if there is a life insurance policy on little Caylee?
GRACE: Excellent question.
BRANDY: Because she always go broke all the time, you know.
GRACE: Nikki Pierce, what about it? Nikki joining us from WDBO. Life insurance policy?
PIERCE: We haven`t heard anything about that, although anything is possible at this point.
GRACE: You know what, Nikki, bottom line this girl was siphoning cars -- gas for her car, so I doubt she could keep up the premiums on an insurance policy.
PIERCE: Probably not.
GRACE: So bottom line, I would say the answer is no.
To Sergeant Haines, what do you think they were trying to get from the clothing they took from the home today?
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL: I think the main thing they were trying to get is some type of trace evidence and that`s going to be analyzed. One of the things is the smell of this body was supposed to be from a pizza, and if they noticed gas cans and things like that, how come they didn`t notice the pizza?
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GRACE: Straight out to the lines, Alana in Kentucky. Hi, Alana.
ALANA, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, you`re my hero.
GRACE: I don`t deserve that, but thank you for saying it. What`s your question, dear?
ALANA: I wonder, if the grandmother is a nurse and the grandfather is a former police officer, wouldn`t she have known better than washing those pants?
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, you know when love somebody, love is blind.
MARSHALL: It is. You know Cindy was the first one to implicate her daughter when she called 911. She said the car smelled like a dead body, she`s taken my daughter, she won`t tell me where she is. Then she turns around and blames the media and says that the media is blaming her daughter. So clearly the mother has a great deal of denial. It`s very difficult for her probably.
GRACE: Well.
MARSHALL: . to admit she raised such a disturbed daughter and...
GRACE: You know, Dr. Bethany?
MARSHALL: Yes?
GRACE: The most disturbing thing in this search warrant as we go to break, the lies about the phone call from little Caylee it never happened.
Everybody, let`s stop for a moment and remember, Army Private First Class Tyler Smith, 22, Bethel, Maine, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Good Conduct Medal. Loyal to friends and family, would give you the shirt off his back. Loved industrial arts, restoring cars, leaves behind parents Martin and Wendy, widow and high school sweetheart Heather.
Tyler Smith, American hero.
Thanks to our guest but especially to you for being with us. And tonight a special good night from Georgia friends of the show Michelle, Tish, whose husband is a firefighter, Michelle`s husband, five tours in Iraq, Erin and Angela, fiance in Qatar.
And tonight, I ask you again to please remember in your prayers defense attorney Sandy Schiff in the fight of a lifetime, set for a bone marrow transplant next week and her battle against leukemia.
Sandy, stay strong.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
