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Campbell Brown

Russian Invasion Sparks Crisis

Aired August 11, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, everybody.
There is a new war tonight, and it is breaking news. With the start of the Olympics, you may have missed the start what many fear could be an all-out war between Russia and its southern neighbor, Georgia.

Russian jets are bombing. Its tanks are rolling and its troops at this moment moving deeper into the country. Vastly overwhelmed, Georgia's president is pleading for help. And world leaders are trying to force a cease-fire.

Georgia's president is calling the situation -- quote -- "the preplanned, cold-blooded premeditated murder of a small country."

Tonight, we have got late-breaking details.

For presidential politics, it is a major foreign policy test for John McCain and for Barack Obama. For the world, it could turn into a showdown between the U.S. and Russia.

And here's what President Bush said just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Now, this is part of the world that might not be on your radar, but it is suddenly critically important and very dangerous. To see why, just take a look at this map. Georgia is a former Soviet republic wedged in between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea.

Like the former Yugoslavia, Georgia has regions that don't necessarily like each other and want to be independent. Two of those regions are Abkhazia and South Ossetia. When Georgia's government sent troops into South Ossetia Friday to put down separatists, Russia, which supports the separatists, sent in its own troops.

Well, tonight, there are report the Russians have opened a second front near Abkhazia. And now there's much more at stake here than the freedom of a former Soviet republic, Russia's attempt to bigfoot its way back on to the world stage. Take a look at this. For the U.S. and its allies, Georgia is a vital gateway to the rich and mostly untapped and oil and natural gas fields around the Caspian Sea. To get that energy market, you really have to go to Georgia, and look to the south. You have to go through Iran, not very good. Go east or southeast, you run into Kazakstan, Turkmenistan and Afghanistan, countries that to say the least are not known for stable governments.

Go north, you hit Russia, which already controls much of the oil and natural gas being sold to Europe and wouldn't mind controlling more. That leaves a little path to the northwest across Georgia. Whoever controls Georgia controls the flow of oil and gas.

And, tonight, Georgia's president, a U.S. ally, says his democratic country is in the process of -- quote -- "invasion, occupation and annihilation." And he says Georgia will not surrender.

CNN senior international correspondent Matthew Chance is in Georgia's Capitol city, Tbilisi. And he's joining us now.

And, Matthew, give us an update on the ground. What is the very latest?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a great deal of tension uncertainty in Tbilisi, the Georgian capital, this everything because just about 40 miles away to the west, Russian forces have moved apparently into Georgian territory out of the main conflict zone of South Ossetia.

Thousands of Georgian troops have been evacuating, retreating from the strategic town of Gori. It's an important town because it lies on one of the main transport routes between the east and west of this country. Now, there's a lot of concern in Georgia amongst the leadership, amongst ordinary civilians as well, ordinary citizens, because they just don't know what the Russians are going to do next.

Thousands of Georgian troops are stationed outside Tbilisi now, in preparation for a possible Russian advance on the Georgian capital. That's certainly what the concern is. Russia by the way has said that's not its intention whatsoever and it doesn't have troops on the ground in that town of Gori. But, nevertheless, that's the concern, that Russia's next step may be a big push into Georgia proper -- Campbell.

BROWN: And, Matthew, why won't Russia agree to a cease-fire?

CHANCE: Well, the official Russian position is that the conditions for its cease-fire have not yet been met by the Georgian forces. They say that Georgia is still carrying out military operations inside the main combat areas of South Ossetia, a breakaway territory of Georgia, which is backed by Moscow.

And, indeed, there's some evidence that that's the case, that Georgian forces have been shelling civilian and military targets inside South Ossetia. But Georgians just don't buy that. They believe there's another agenda at play here. They believe that the Russians may have another plan, not to just stick to South Ossetia and the other breakaway republic, Abkhazia, but also just to move into Georgia proper, perhaps take control over the whole country.

And so there is a great deal of suspicion, a great deal of uncertainty in this country at the moment.

BROWN: All right, Matthew, thank you very much -- Matthew Chance reporting for us tonight from Georgia.

There seems to be no way Georgia can stand up against Russia's overwhelming military superiority on the ground and in the air. So, tonight, it's also up to the world's leaders and diplomats to rein in the Russian offensive.

To see if there's any chance of that, we want to bring in now CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry.

And, Ed, we heard some tough words from the president today. But put this in context for us. To a lot of our viewers, this is a faraway place. It doesn't necessarily feel relevant to their lives. Explain the concerns that we heard today from the president, from John McCain, from Senator Obama, that Russia is really pursuing a strategic long-term goal here.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The bottom line is that there's a fear throughout Washington tonight that what is really going on is Russia is trying to essentially reconstitute the old Soviet Union, bring back those spheres of influence.

If you take over Georgia today, what is next? Could they then move into the Ukraine? Could they take over the Czech Republic? All of these are awful options that are on the table. But there's a fear that, if they start here and they're not stopped, what happens next?

At the Olympics, President Bush was meeting at least twice with Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, and was assured then that this was sort of an isolated incident, that things were calming down. You can see them huddling there.

And I think the clear frustration for the Bush administration tonight that you heard in that very tough talk from the president is that when President Bush came back from the Olympics in China and arrived at the White House, this situation had exploded. Rather than calming down, it had gotten worse, U.S. officials intelligence now fearing that in fact Russia's next move could be to start bombing the civilian airport, that they could be moving to take over the capital of Tbilisi.

And the bottom line is that the U.S. has very limited diplomatic options to deal with this, the next steps, very limited options -- Campbell.

BROWN: Now, the president talked about diplomacy. What are the U.S.' diplomatic options here?

HENRY: First option, they hope, is that Russia will finally sign this E.U.-brokered cease-fire. Georgia is already on board with it, but Russia so far showing no signs that they will sign that cease- fire.

Secondly, if that fails, they could go to the U.N. Security Council, try to get a tough resolution. But it is very likely Russia would block that, as a permanent member of the Security Council. And there would be a lot of talk, but not necessarily a lot of action. So, those are two options.

The next one, obviously, would be the potential U.S. military action. But that would be a last resort. The U.S. certainly does not want to escalate this any further. If you think back to where things started in the Bush administration in 2001, when Mr. Bush first met Mr. Putin, he talked about looking into his eyes and seeing into his soul, and there was a lot of warmth.

Right now, there is the potential -- and I stress potential -- that, instead, we're on the brink of another Cold War, Campbell.

BROWN: Ed Henry for us tonight from Washington -- Ed, thanks.

HENRY: Thank you.

BROWN: There are scores of U.S. citizens in Georgia. The U.S. has already evacuated 170. And, tonight, Washington is trying desperately to get out the last convoy. We are going to hear from an American who is still trapped there with her three kids. That's coming up in just a moment.

And the crisis is already proving to be a test in the presidential race. Senators McCain and Obama made a point of talking tough today. We are going to listen to what they're saying and put it to our no-bull test.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Americans living in Georgia have been living in fear since the fighting began there. And, today, U.S. officials evacuated 170 of them from this unpredictable battle zone.

American Lisa Kaestner is near Tbilisi right now and she's joining us live on the telephone.

And, Lisa, just describe the situation there right now. I know it's nighttime and you have got children and they're asleep, fortunately. But describe the kind of things that you guys have been seeing.

LISA KAESTNER, AMERICAN IN GEORGIA: I'm right now actually in Tbilisi in the outskirts.

And this evening has been very quiet. But the biggest challenge has been to get accurate information about what is really going on, in order to assess the risks and decide what we want to do as a family and as a team at the organization where I'm working here.

BROWN: And you have got friends, I know, who have been evacuating to neighboring Armenia. So far, you're staying put. Why?

KAESTNER: Well, some individuals have decided to leave voluntarily and the U.S. Embassy has facilitated the voluntarily departure of some Americans.

As far as I know, no one has actually been formally evacuated. We did have some friends that decided to cross the border into Armenia this evening, but the advice we were getting throughout the United Nations system, and through the U.N., was that better to shelter in place. In other words, if you're someplace safe, better to stay there than get out on the roads. And that is what we and a lot of our friends have decided to do. So, we're staying here tonight.

BROWN: That's probably a good idea. Do you think, though, from what you have been hearing, a mandatory evacuation may be necessary for yourself, for other Americans who are there in Georgia, given what you have seen?

KAESTNER: Well, all I can say is, I think most organizations are preparing for that eventuality, my own organization included. We're making sure that we know where our staff are and have ways and vehicles in order to be able to leave. So, we're preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best.

I personally have moved my family since Saturday from a location downtown to a friend's house that is on the outskirts of the city where there's a basement and access to communications, including cable television and CNN.

BROWN: Well, I was going to ask you that, because you did say it was confusing in terms of the information you are get getting. How are you getting most of your information?

KAESTNER: Well, cable television, the Internet, the local Georgian news, friends sending us (INAUDIBLE) around, pretty much every way you can imagine. But there's a lot of rumors flying around within the city. It's hard to know.

The press, the local press, it's been unclear. And even Saturday morning, on CNN, on the Internet, there was a report that the city had been bombed, Tbilisi, which in fact was not the case. So I quickly got in touch with family at home to let them know that was not the case. So there's a lot of misinformation, not helped by the fact the Russians are telling quite a different story than the Georgians.

BROWN: And, Lisa, you have got three children there with you, including a little 8-month-old. How are they?

KAESTNER: They're doing fine. We're staying with friends who also have a kid. And we're trying to keep them occupied and even went out to the park yesterday. The eldest, the 8-year-old, is the only one who maybe has some understanding of what's actually going on.

BROWN: Well, we wish you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do in getting out over the next few days.

Lisa Kaestner, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time.

KAESTNER: And thank you for your coverage of the events.

BROWN: With me now from Washington is Robert Hunter. He's a former U.S. ambassador to NATO under President Clinton and now a senior adviser to the RAND Corporation, which provides research and analysis to policy-makers.

Welcome to you. Thank you for joining us tonight, Mr. Ambassador.

KAESTNER: Thank you.

BROWN: So, give me your view on this. What do you think the Russians' endgame is? What is the ultimate objective?

ROBERT HUNTER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: Oh, I think they have several.

In the first place, they want to say, we are back as a great power. Secondly, this is our part of the world. And if people are going to be doing things here, we have to have a role in it. Third, they're saying, Mr. Saakashvili, the president of Georgia, has been getting a little uppity, from the Russian perspective. And, fourth, they're trying to show to various people everywhere that you have to take Russia seriously, including for people who are from these two enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. So, this is the muscle- flexing "We are back" kind of statement that is being made.

BROWN: So, what are the stakes for us here at home, for the U.S.? Some think of this as a border dispute and say we ought to just stay out of it. Others see this as more of the ascendance, as you sort of reference there, of the former Russians in the neighbor former Soviet republics. And they see that as a major setback for U.S. interests. Where are you on this?

HUNTER: Oh, I think there are several things. One is to try to move progressively to an assertion of the rule of law, to move beyond the old Cold War way of looking at things in terms of just raw geopolitics.

Secondly, the role of a country that is indeed aspiring to be a fully democratic country working in the outside world, this would be a setback to that whole idea if this were to prevail. But, beyond that, we have an interest in trying to build a strategic relationship with the Russians, because they need us. And, to an extent, we need them. But it has to be on the basis of their accepting, not just we are a great power, but with that comes great responsibility.

The Russians could end up being a major loser in this if they don't stop the fighting right now and move their troops back and agree to a political process that has a chance of working things out.

BROWN: Right.

And, Ambassador, how much of this is about oil? Much of the oil in that part of the world comes through -- or in those former Soviet republics -- comes through Georgia, that -- the oil that comes to the West. How much of this is an attempt by Russia to expand its influence on the global energy supply?

HUNTER: Well, within the narrow framework, the pipeline itself that goes from Baku to Ceyhan is still somewhat south of where Russian forces are.

If they were to actually cross that pipeline, this would really escalate perceptions of the intentions. One of the things the Russians have been doing here is they have been trying to get a pipeline to go through Russia, rather than just through Georgia, avoiding Russia. And they're making a statement about that. But it has exactly the opposite effect.

Here is a country that is trying to build a customer base in Europe for its natural gas, one of the two or three largest exporters of natural gas in the world.

BROWN: Right.

HUNTER: Now everybody is going to be a lot more leery of dealing with the Russians on the things the Russian need. And they are going to pay a huge price.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Quickly, Ambassador, where do you see this ending? Does it deteriorate further? Are we seeing the beginning of a new Cold War?

HUNTER: Oh, God no. The Russians and we both have every interest in not creating a new Cold War. The president has made that clear.

But the Russians have to understand, in this world, they can't behave like a bully. They have to immediately get a cease-fire in Georgia. They have to show that they're willing to move in a peaceful direction, because, otherwise, they will be isolated in the outside world, where we have total solidarity.

The president, the two candidates for the next president, all the allies, everybody is pulling together to tell the Russians, you have got to behave.

BROWN: All right, Ambassador Robert Hunter for us tonight -- Ambassador, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

HUNTER: Thank you.

BROWN: Much more to this story tonight -- John McCain and Barack Obama both speaking out on the fight. We are going to take a look at what they say, put it to our no-bull test -- that coming up just ahead.

And then later, the woman in the John Edwards sex scandal, we have new information about her, about she got involved with the man who hoped to be president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We want to continue now with breaking news. The Russian military moves into its southern neighbor, Georgia. The Georgian president describes it as -- quote -- "invasion, occupation and annihilation."

Both presidential candidates had strong words for the Russians today. We are going to listen to what they're saying and then put it to our no-bull test.

This morning in Pennsylvania, John McCain reminded the Russians that being a player on the world stage ought to mean acting responsibly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must remind Russia's leaders that the benefits they enjoy from being part of the civilized world require their respect for the values, stability and peace of that world. World history is often made in remote, obscure countries. It is being made in Georgia today. It is the responsibility of the leading nations of the world to ensure that history continues to be a record of humanity's progress toward respecting the values and security of free people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And even though Barack Obama is vacationing in Hawaii, he called in TV crews a short time ago to make this statement about the fighting in Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The United States, Europe and all other concerned countries must stand united in condemning this aggression and seeking a peaceful resolution of the crisis.

We should continue to push for a United Nations Security Council resolution calling for an immediate end to the violence. This is a clear violation of the sovereignty and internationally recognized borders of Georgia. The U.N. must stand up for the sovereignty of its members and for peace in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The candidates both trying to walk a very fine line with their statements on the Russian invasion. Tom Foreman will put them to our no-bull test. That's when we come back.

This is the ELECTION CENTER.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We just heard what Senators McCain and Obama are saying about the crisis Georgia.

Tom Foreman is keeping track of that aboard the CNN Election Express in Ohio. And he's joining me from Youngstown to put what Obama and McCain are saying to our no-bull test.

So, Tom, do you hear those national security phones ringing in the White House?

(LAUGHTER)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, both of the candidates have to be thinking about that Hillary Clinton ad, don't they? Who would take the call at 3:00 in the morning if there were an international crisis? And it seemed pretty clear that what they were trying to do accordingly was just not make any big mistakes that might scare off voters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (voice-over): They have each condemned Russia for hitting so hard and so deeply into Georgian territory. At the same time, neither candidate has suggested we should jump into the fight. All of that is in line with the State Department's efforts, urging mediation, negotiation, and a quick end to the violence.

So, as former NATO Ambassador Robert Hunter, now with the RAND Corporation, told me today, the candidates have it about right. They are reminding Russia that there could be serious diplomatic and economic consequences if Russia keeps pressing the fight. But they're also remaining mindful of an important reality.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: And that is this right now. Many foreign affairs analysts say, quite simply, the United States needs Russia to keep Iran in line on nuclear weapons and on its involvement in Iraq. So, give both of the candidates credit on this one for speaking up as much as they needed to and, diplomatically, shutting up when they had to -- Campbell.

BROWN: All right, Tom Foreman for us tonight -- Tom, as always, thank you.

You know, the fighting between Russia and Georgia is near a flash point tonight, as we have been reporting. And that makes it a pretty crucial foreign policy test for Barack Obama and John McCain. So, no bias, no bull. Are the candidates ready to pick up that White House phone?

We want to ask our panel about that tonight, talk radio host Lars Larson joining me, along with CNN political analyst Roland Martin, and Michael Crowley, senior editor of "The New Republic" with me here in New York.

Welcome, guys.

Lars, to you first.

John McCain really, I think, frankly, saw an opportunity here. He was quick to condemn Russia.

LARS LARSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes.

BROWN: He's been keeping up the sort of steady drumbeat. Obama, a little more cautious, at least initially, in his statements. He's since toughened up his stance. Should he have come out stronger right from the get-go?

LARSON: Sure he should have. He had an opportunity yesterday. And I guess, overnight, they found some political Viagra, and he firmed up his position.

But I have got to tell you something. Senator Obama says he's going to take the call at 3:00 in the morning, and then transfer it to the United Nations, the most worthless group on the planet, a group of people who couldn't get anything done, who from most fights. And nobody can point to a single real success story they have got anywhere. But he's going to call them up and say, pass a resolution. That worked really well with Saddam Hussein over about a dozen years, didn't it?

BROWN: On the policy side, though, I mean, Lars, in fairness, I think, from everything we have heard from on both sides of the aisle here, there are not a ton of options open.

But, on the political front, Roland, let me ask you. You do have to admit that the Obama campaign probably didn't want the only pictures of their candidate to be of him playing golf, while McCain was taking questions on this issue. Should -- should he come back from his vacation, show that he grasps the gravity of this situation?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, because the reality is this is President Bush's job. He is the president. The candidates, all they could simply do is make statements. They aren't involved in any kind of negotiations.

But, you know what, Campbell, when you listen to the rhetoric that Lars throws out there, it shows you the kind of problem we're speaking of. When you read John McCain's comments what he also called upon was for us to work with our European partners to also apply pressure to Russia, also by going to the United Nations.

The problem here is that we have a horrible relationship with our European partners because of the war in Iraq. And so, this is sort of one of those win-win, frankly, for Obama and McCain. It allows for them to be able to establish their talking points on the issue.

For McCain, let's talk tough, in terms of what -- when he talks about NATO. For Obama, what do we also do when it comes to our European partners? Both of them are laying out sort of their stakes here as to how they would approach a situation. Diplomacy is obviously the critical issue here. BROWN: Michael, let me get your assessment of both. I mean, is this a 3:00 a.m. phone call moment? Or do we at least get to sort of peer at them, you know, at what's going on in their brains and their thought process, if it were, and how do you assess their reaction?

MICHAEL CROWLEY, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Yes. No, I think in one sense of sonata, I think what Hillary Clinton was talking about was a crisis, the phone rings and then I get to make a decision right away.

As you have mentioned, our options are limited. There's only not that much the candidates can do to say this is really satisfying. We can't start, you know, moving aircraft carriers around.

BROWN: Not much President Bush can do.

CROWLEY: No. Exactly. That's not much the United States can do. Now, I think that leaves the point the way in which this is significant. Obama needs to make the case that our options have been limited in large part because we've lost what you call soft power. We've lost our standing and influence in the world. We're much too reliant on a country that we really have a lot of problems with.

McCain, I think, needs to drive home the point. I was somewhat questioned about this. I talked about Russia more than other people were...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very true.

CROWLEY: ... for using the campaign and said, you know, I saw these problems coming. And so, we're going to have a debate here and, you know, may the better politician, may the better person make their case to the American people.

LARS LARSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Campbell --

MARTIN: Campbell -- Campbell, if guys like --

BROWN: Lars, go ahead.

LARSON: Campbell, here's the problem. We talk about our European partners, even during the Clinton era, when supposedly everybody on the planet else loved us, they were a whole bunch of help in Bosnia, weren't they?

Yes, they stepped right up to the plate. Instead, the United States went in, did the job that needed to be done.

MARTIN: Campbell --

BROWN: All right.

LARSON: They weren't much help then and they aren't much help now.

BROWN: Roland, you've got 15 seconds. MARTIN: Campbell, they are civil and guys like Lars want to sit here and talk about in terms of who's going to answer the 3:00 ad. The problem is George W. Bush was at the Olympic Games attending sporting events when this was going on last night.

BROWN: Oh, come on, Roland.

(CROSSTALK)

MARTIN: No, no, no, no.

BROWN: It's not fair, Roland. Putin was there, too.

MARTIN: Campbell -- Campbell, I'm making the point, if the Republicans want to somehow use this as a talking point, the problem is the president himself was at the Olympic Games. That's the point.

CROWLEY: It's not fair to say that Obama should come back from vacation. Bush, it's OK if he is at the Olympics, Obama can be on vacation. Things happen in the world. Rushing back to please the cameras doesn't solve problems.

(CROSSTALK)

LARSON: But the right kind of message is important and John McCain had the right kind of message and Barack Obama faltered.

BROWN: All right. OK. I agree with Michael's point.

All right. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Lars, Roland and Michael, thanks very much.

MARTIN: Thank you.

BROWN: The Democratic Convention now just two weeks away and yet -- and yet, it's still not clear how much air in the room will still be sucked up by Hillary and Bill Clinton rather than Barack Obama. Good question because there is this news on this tonight.

Candy Crowley has been checking her sources. She's got the very latest for us, next.

And then later, sex, politics and maybe the truth. We're going to check the facts behind the story John Edwards is telling about his affair.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We always say politics is personal and that's especially true when it comes to the Clintons. Hillary Clinton's team was grabbing headlines again today, with Barack Obama chilling out in the Aloha State. And now, it is all about her once again.

What's her plan for the convention? How hard is she campaigning for Obama, and does she really want him to win? Well, Candy Crowley has the latest in the Clinton political drama and she's joining us now.

And, Candy, at least from the outside, it looks like Hillary Clinton has been a pretty loyal soldier these days. She was out campaigning for Obama on Friday. But not all of the Clinton troops necessarily seem to be in line, do they?

CANDY CROWLEY, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You're absolutely right. I mean, on the surface, Obama is offering the Clintons speaking slots at the convention. She's out saying this is about unity, campaigning for him in Nevada. She will soon go to Florida for him.

But here's what we're finding. Take Howard Wolfson, for instance, who was the communications director for the Clinton campaign. He was talking to ABC.com off the Edwards interview saying, listen, if news of John Edwards' affair had hit prior to the Iowa caucuses, Hillary Clinton would have won. Here's what he had to say.

"Our voters and Edwards' voters were the same people. Maybe two- thirds of them would have been for us and we would have barely beaten Obama."

Now our pollster tells us that actually the plurality of people who were Edwards' supporters said they would have supported Obama. So, but beyond the facts of this, this is very unhelpful. We are less than three weeks before the Obama convention where they want to put forth unity.

And I talked to a couple of people in the Clinton camp who are supporters. First, this is the kind of thing that just kind of opens those old wounds at a time when they say the Clintons truly do want to move forward.

You also have something far worse, I think, coming out at this point, and that is kind of the inner workings of the Clinton campaign, a look back from "Atlantic Monthly." Lots of quotes in there that will not sit well in the Obama camp, as they again try to move forward here, get over some of the bitterness that went on in the primaries.

Mark Penn, who, as you know, Campbell, was the top strategist for Hillary Clinton, is quoted in there as saying, what they need to do is go after Obama's roots, to sort of frame him as not really an American with American values. Here is one of the quotes from an e-mail in the "Atlantic Monthly."

It says, "I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values."

So that will hit a little close to home I think in the Obama camp. Nothing that a good speech by Obama at the convention can't overcome, nonetheless, it's just not helpful less than two weeks before that convention -- less than three weeks.

BROWN: And, Candy, you mention the convention. Over the weekend Senator Clinton did lock up her speaking spot there in Denver, but her supporters may not give Obama a free ride once they all get to Denver, right?

CROWLEY: You do. Absolutely. You do have this group of hard core Clinton supporters, delegates, voters who say and, who in fact, put out an ad in "Roll Call," which, as you know, is an influential Capitol Hill newspaper, today that said listen, there has to be her name put into nomination. There have to be floor speeches about her. We have to vote or we might not vote in November.

Now, how big a group that is, it's really unclear. But they could make some noise, and, again, that whole picture of unity would have some problems.

BROWN: All right. Candy Crowley for us from Washington tonight. Candy, thanks.

In a moment, the John Edwards scandal in that big interview. He tried to answer some tough questions, but did he raise even more questions about the woman in the middle of this? We're going to check the facts for Edwards and Rielle hunter coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight, there are still a lot of questions facing John Edwards who has admitted having an affair back in 2006 after denying it while he was running for president.

Tonight, CNN's David Mattingly is looking at the players involved here who said what, when. He's putting it all through our fact checker -- David.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Campbell, John Edwards going public about his affair proved to be very short on some important detail but at the same time very strong on some important denials.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Former presidential candidate John Edwards calls his affair a very serious mistake, a brief relationship with self-described filmmaker Rielle Hunter in 2006. She was hired by Edwards' campaign and paid more than $114,000 to produce campaign videos for the Web.

In his only interview on the subject, Edwards told ABC News he revealed the affair to his wife and family soon after it occurred, but he denied tabloid reports of a possible love child.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM ABC NEWS "NIGHTLINE")

BOB WOODRUFF, ABC NEWS ANCHOR, "NIGHTLINE": Have you taken a paternity test?

JOHN EDWARDS (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I have not. I would welcome participating in a paternity test, be happy to participate in one. I know that it's not possible that this child could be mine because of the timing of events, so I know it's not possible. Happy to take a paternity test and would love to see it happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: A fact check here finds a former Edwards campaign aid, Andrew Young, claimed last year, he was the father of Hunter's child. But the birth certificate does not list the father's name. Hunter's attorney released a statement saying she wishes to maintain her privacy and that she will not permit DNA testing.

Lingering questions about Edwards came to a boil after a "National Enquirer" report of a meeting last month at the Beverly Hilton between Edwards, Hunter and her spiritual adviser. Edwards says he went to prevent details of the affair from becoming public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM ABC NEWS "NIGHTLINE")

WOODRUFF: Did Elizabeth, your wife, know you were visiting Beverly Hilton?

EDWARDS: No.

WOODRUFF: That was a secret?

EDWARDS: I didn't -- you mean, did I tell her before I went?

WOODRUFF: Yes.

EDWARDS: I did not.

WOODRUFF: Did she find out after the reports?

EDWARDS: She found out the next morning. I called her and told her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY (on camera): Another fact check finds that Hunter's baby was born in February, more than a year after Edwards says he told his wife about the affair and ended it. The story also revolves around questions of whether or not hush money was paid to Hunter and to the man who claims to be the baby's father.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM ABC NEWS "NIGHTLINE")

EDWARDS: I've never paid a dime of money to any of the people that are involved. I've never asked anybody to pay a dime of money, never been told that any money's been paid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): A fact check here finds the former head of the Edwards campaign finance committee taking full responsibility for that.

Fred Baron said he never told Edwards a thing about payments. "I decided independently to help two friends and former colleagues," he said, to "rebuild their lives when harassment by supermarket tabloids made it impossible to move forward with their own."

Moving forward also seems to be Elizabeth Edwards' wish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM ABC NEWS "NIGHTLINE")

EDWARDS: First of all, it happened during a period after she was in remission from cancer. That's no excuse in any possible way for what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Edwards says his wife has forgiven him. Mrs. Edwards has since developed an incurable form of cancer. On her blog, she said she wanted this to stay a private matter. She said, "Although John believes he should stand alone and take the consequences for his actions now, when the door closes behind him, he has his family waiting for him."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And the one person who did not show up on any of those videos that Hunter produced, Campbell, was Elizabeth. Back to you.

BROWN: All right, David, stand by. I know you've got more to tell us about the woman who is at the center of this story.

And coming up in just a few minutes, we should also mention "LARRY KING LIVE" will also take a look at the John Edwards scandal. Larry, what do you have tonight?

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": We will, Campbell. That sex scandal is far from being played out as there are new questions tonight. Is he still in touch with the other woman? What don't we know?

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is here to discuss possible political fallout from the affair. Plus, former Edwards' campaign manager Joe Trippi is with us. We'll see you next on "LARRY KING LIVE," Campbell.

BROWN: All right. Larry, thanks very much.

And right here on ELECTION CENTER, we are going to have more also about John Edwards, about Rielle Hunter, including some questions about the campaign films that she was hired and paid to produce and then post on the Web. That's when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Tonight, we know that Rielle Hunter was hired to make videos for John Edwards in 2006, that she had an affair with him that year, had a baby earlier this year and is refusing to submit to a paternity test. What else do we know about her?

Well, our David Mattingly is back to tell us what he found out. And David, I know Rielle Hunter produced four of these documentary- style webisodes for the Edwards' campaign. They only had a brief run on the Edwards' Web site, but they are burning up YouTube these days, aren't they?

MATTINGLY: Yes, they are, Campbell. We know that the Edwards campaign paid over $100,000 to produce four short Web videos, which were shot sometime around the summer and fall of 2006. We don't know the exact timeline, but this is around the same time that Edwards has admitted that the two were having an affair.

Despite the $100,000 price tag, the videos are simple, low tech, and unvarnished behind the scenes look at John Edwards on the road delivering speeches. He was on a trip to a refugee camp in Uganda and off stage, at an appearance on "The Daily Show With Jon Stewart."

Now in the first webisode we're about to show you, Rielle Hunter is on the Edwards plane as he tells her what he hopes the videos will accomplish. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM YOUTUBE, MIDLINE GROOVE PRODUCTIONS)

RIELLE HUNTER, JOHN EDWARDS' OTHER WOMAN: I'm so glad you like it.

EDWARDS: I like it. Wait until you hear me give it live.

So the way his shoes (ph) are set, are those cool? I have no idea what's cool? I asked a woman selling me shoes at the store what was cool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And, David, we never saw Rielle Hunter on camera but her mike did pick up some of her interactions with John Edwards, right?

MATTINGLY: You just saw some of that going on, in fact, almost a flirtatious type of conversation going on. But there were very few different points in various webisodes. We could see that she was not just a passive camera operator.

And here's another clip from on the plane where we hear more of John Edwards talking directly to her, through that camera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FROM YOUTUBE, MIDLINE GROOVE PRODUCTIONS)

EDWARDS: I've come to the personal conclusion that I actually want the country to see who I am -- who I really am. But I don't know what the results of that will be. But for me personally, I'd rather be successful or unsuccessful, based on who I really am, not based on some plastic Ken doll that you put up in front of audiences. That's not me, you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And, again, Campbell, the one person who doesn't appear in any of these four videos is Elizabeth Edwards. However, she is mentioned. At one point, John Edwards tells a little anecdote about his son, Jack, and his wife, an anecdote that he used to illustrate a political point he was making and not a personal point.

BROWN: All right. David Mattingly for us tonight. David, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

In just a moment, we're going to have more on the Edwards affair. Does he still have a political future after this?

And then later, volleyball fun at the Olympics and a snap decision that may have saved President Bush from a potentially embarrassing moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Let's get back now to the Edwards scandal, Rielle Hunter, the videos she was paid to produce. And here to talk about that with us is Lisa Bloom, host of truTV's "In Session," Matthew Felling, a contributor to "American Journalism Review" and a public radio host, and Amanda Carpenter, national political reporter for townhall.com.

Amanda, let me start with you. You saw these videos that the Edwards campaign paid $100,000 for. You saw him confess to having an affair. How did he come across to you?

AMANDA CARPENTER, TOWNHALL.COM: Well, it's sort of strange. He almost seemed a tiny bit gleeful as if he was having the opportunity to show another side of John Edwards. He didn't seem solemn. He didn't convey sorrow and, you know, he just didn't' come off believable to me, to tell you the truth.

BROWN: Lisa, John Edwards denied that this baby, that Rielle Hunters' baby is his. He offered to take a paternity test in this ABC News interview to prove that fact. She says she doesn't want one because she wants to maintain privacy for herself, for her family. What do you think of this?

LISA BLOOM, HOST, TRUTV "IN SESSION": Well, I think that's unfortunate because the baby is not a pet or a potted plant, and that baby deserves to know who her father is at some point. Maybe not now, but someday she's going to ask, she's going to know.

Also, if she's continuing to receive payments on behalf of John Edwards from a third party, that's really unfair to me if this is not his baby. So I think maybe this is a ploy to continue getting payments.

BROWN: Matthew, in the "Nightline" interview, Edwards seemed to leave the door open to a political comeback, at some point. How realistic is this?

MATTHEW FELLING, "AMERICAN JOURNALISM REVIEW": Oh, absolutely. America has nothing but second and third and fourth acts for people. We saw Nixon in the '60s. We've seen careers always get revitalized and reborn. And I think that Edwards in the future is not completely out of the question but, I mean, watching these videos on YouTube, it was -- I mean, for all intents and purposes, he is politically dead at the moment.

And just seeing this video, seeing the clues, I mean, the flirtatious demeanor, it was like he was talking to us from beyond the political graveyard. And I think the one thing that stood up for me the most was this -- was a $114,000 for these videos? I mean, you can get better documentary Web videos from college kids and you just pay them with beer money.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: So, Amanda, do you agree though with Matthew's original point there?

CARPENTER: Well, I agree that John -- well, I disagree. John Edwards has no political future until that paternity who -- until we find out who Frances Quinn's father is. I want to revisit Lisa's point in there.

There is a child involved in here, and the only question that should be asked right now, is who is obligated to financially support and love that child. There's an interest in finding out who the father of this for reasons that go beyond John Edwards' political future.

BROWN: And, Lisa, what did you think of Elizabeth Edwards? She gave this very gracious statement, very supportive statement but didn't appear with him on camera.

BLOOM: Yes. Hooray, hooray. We finally have a political wife who doesn't sit there with a Stepford wife glazed look...

FELLING: Exactly.

BLOOM: ... next to her man as he humiliates her on public TV. This is the first time I think we've seen that. I say three cheers for her.

Also, her written statement, typical Elizabeth Edwards class, where she says essentially, because of her cancer, because of her condition, she's ready to move on to bigger issues. I mean, that's a good lesson, I think, for all of us.

BROWN: All right. We got to end it there. To Lisa, to Matthew and Amanda, thanks very much, guys. Appreciate it.

When we come back tonight, President Bush's unforgettable, uncomfortable moment with the U.S. Olympic volleyball team. You're going to want to see this. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we go tonight, a quick look at the sports fan and chief acting like a gentleman. After posing with members of the U.S. Olympic beach volleyball team, President Bush was invited to give one of the women a good luck swat on the backside. You know, players -- they do it all the time, but presidents don't. So Mr. Bush backhanded her lower back instead.

That is it tonight from the ELECTION CENTER. Have a great one everybody.

"LARRY KING LIVE" starts right now.