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Nancy Grace

Police Say Photo Not Missing Caylee

Aired August 13, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for eight long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Has a photo emerged on little Caylee taken after she goes missing? Local reports, sources within police believe little Caylee is dead. Police vehemently deny that report. But for two consecutive days, they send out the elite K-9 cadaver dogs go out to search for the little girl, police honing in on the 72 hours just after Caylee last seen alive, Father`s Day weekend. Phone records reveal a mysterious flurry of calls from mom, Casey, to parents` work and cell phones over those 72 hours, police now attempting to ping or trace mom, Casey`s, calls retroactively, and then identify locations where mom, Casey, may have traveled during that time.

Mom, Casey, still turning away jailhouse visits from her own family and now in protective custody behind bars, the clock ticking on DNA results from hair and fluid discovered in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. With more criminal charges pending, where is 3-year-old little Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source close to this investigation tells us detectives now believe something happened to Caylee. They have no reason to believe Casey would hurt her daughter, that source says. So they reason it could have been an accident, perhaps a drowning. Maybe she was left in a hot car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing to indicate that she`s not alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever the case, our source tells us they believe it happened June 16. That`s the day she was last seen by her grandfather. And hours later, they report, a flurry of phone calls made by Casey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a flurry of phone calls from Casey Anthony to her parents. They don`t know why because she couldn`t reach her parents. And that`s obviously the day that investigators believe that little Caylee disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports say investigators are also now trying to pinpoint the whereabouts of tot mom Casey Anthony on June 16, 17 and 18, which is right after the toddler was last seen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was gone for 31 days. Her own mother doesn`t know exactly where she was those 31 days. So we have to try to put pieces together to try to figure out, at any given day, where could she have been.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.

911 OPERATOR: Why are you calling now? Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?

CASEY ANTHONY: I have been looking for her.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is the key to this investigation. She knows what she did. She knows what time was the last time she saw the child, who she may have left the child with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source close to the sheriff`s office reportedly told a local Orlando station that police have a theory that focuses on the idea that Caylee may be dead. Other TV reports say deputies are focusing on three days in mid-June, when Casey Anthony says she turned over her daughter to a babysitter. They`re said to be trying to track the mother`s whereabouts during that time.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s (DELETED) listening to anything that I`m saying.

The (DELETED) detectives told them (DELETED) (DELETED). They want all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff. They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators hope to develop potential search areas by tracking the cell phone towers that Casey`s phone hit on the 16th, 17th and 18th. During those three days, Casey spent time with boyfriend Tony Lazzaro (ph). And according to our source, Lazzaro has told them he never saw Caylee, never saw Casey show concern for Caylee`s whereabouts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How important is it that your deputies (INAUDIBLE) one time with Casey to try and get some answers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very important. But then again, you know, she doesn`t want to see us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey has the key to this. Casey was the last person ever seen with the child. And we still believe that Casey knows more than what she`s telling us. She`s the only one that can tell us something that can turn this around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives are also looking at the possibility of adding more charges to break this stalemate. There`s the $700 a friend says Casey stole from her, and detectives believe Casey may have used her parents` credit cards without permission. There are also numerous false statements investigators say Casey made early on. All could be potential new charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, joining us tonight from WNDB Newstalk. Mark, what`s the latest? What can you tell me about a source deep within the police department, according to local reports, saying that they believe little Caylee is dead?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Bob Khieling (ph) had that report this afternoon on WBSH (ph) Channel 2 here in Orlando, the NBC affiliate. Somebody told him a source who is deep within the department said that some investigators believe that little Caylee Anthony is, in fact, dead. However, during a roundtable this afternoon, late this afternoon, with Orlando-area media, a spokesman for the Orange County sheriff`s department stressed that they have no proof that Caylee is dead and they`re still treating this case as a missing persons story.

Also, Nancy, one of the other things that they`re talking about is what happened starting on Monday, June 16, Tuesday the 17th and Wednesday the 18th. They believe -- investigators right now believe if anything ever happened, little Caylee died on the 16th, which was a Monday, the day after Father`s Day. They theorize that she may have died in an accident.

There were a flurry of phone calls, a half dozen in all, starting at 3:03 PM that Monday afternoon, ending about 4:24 PM, to the mother`s cell phone, the father`s cell phone, as well as her ex-fiance, Jesse Grund (ph), his cell phone. Apparently, she didn`t even get any answers. And she even called her mother, Cindy, at her work and never got her on the phone.

Now, investigators looking at Tuesday, the 17th, in which she borrowed -- Casey borrowed a shovel, very unusual because Casey was not exactly the gardening type. And of course, the following day, the 18th, she backed her car up to the garage, which was very unusual, and then also made a flurry of phone calls starting around noontime, several to her father and to her mother, once again -- again, apparently, no answers right there.

Also, as we documented last night on this show, that the police now taking a look at cell phone calls and cell phone records. As the expert out of Atlantic City mentioned last night, that on your cell phone bill, that`s only the surface. Now they can ping those towers to see where her cell phone hit. They could check the velocity. They can check where that cell phone came from through triangulation.

And of course, the other bombshell tonight was the fact that there was a couple in Orlando who said they saw little Caylee Anthony on July 10 -- they even took pictures -- living in an apartment complex with two individuals. I know we have some pictures of what Orlando police have in their possession right now. It`s a little girl, and it somewhat looks like Caylee. However, she has a hat over her head and you really can`t see her features. Orlando police tonight discounting the fact that it was Caylee Anthony, but those pictures are in their possession right now. And that`s the very latest out of this investigation, Nancy.

GRACE: Now, wait a minute. I`m seeing that photo right now. Rosie, if we can go back to that photo? Here`s the photo that Mark Williams is discussing. This is a photo that, sources state, emerged of little Caylee after she goes missing. Now, Mark, are you telling me police are now saying this is absolutely not her?

WILLIAMS: It`s absolutely not her. There may be some matching features, but with the hat over the head, you really can`t see the face. You can just see some pictures. And they`ve basically discounted what they`re looking at as little Caylee.

GRACE: Hold on. Let`s see it in full, Rosie. Let`s take a look at the little girl in full. This is a photo -- I can`t see her legs. If you could get rid of the Chyron for me on it? This is the photo of a girl, a grainy photo taken, allegedly of Caylee after she goes missing. I believe you said July 10?

WILLIAMS: July 10, that picture was taken by a couple who live there in this apartment complex.

GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Joining us right now, Debbie in Delaware. Hi, Debbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, Casey keeps saying that she left the baby with the babysitter. Well, how did she meet the babysitter? I mean, you don`t randomly leave your child with someone. Did a friend introduce them? Was it through a service? Somebody must know the babysitter.

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, it`s my understanding that mom, Casey Anthony, states she got in touch with this nanny, as she calls her, through someone she worked with there at Universal. Of course, we find out she was fired from Universal. So was one of the people she said that was her "outcry witness" that she told about Caylee being missing. Who allegedly set her up with this pretend babysitter?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Nancy, allegedly, it was Jeffrey Hopkins and Juliet Lewis, the two alleged outcry witnesses also, that she said she worked with at Universal. They supposedly introduced her to Zenaida Gonzalez. But as we know, that`s not true. They haven`t worked together, if ever, in years, the three of them.

GRACE: And Mark Williams, these two people, they did exist, correct?

WILLIAMS: As far as we know, they existed. But who knows? There`s always been this web of lies that Casey has told. As a matter of fact, if you recall, she said she worked at Universal, but heck, she hasn`t worked there for two-and-a-half years.

GRACE: Straight back out to the lines. Jennifer in Virginia. Hi, Jennifer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. We love you here in Virginia. Thank for all that you do.

GRACE: Jennifer, thank you very much. And thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is in relation to the theory of Caylee drowning. I was wondering if in any of those reports if they`ve actually located the bathing suit for Caylee? Has that turned up?

GRACE: To Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk. Mark, the whole theory about her drowning -- is there an aboveground pool in the Anthonys` back yard?

WILLIAMS: Yes, there is. It`s a large pool.

GRACE: And cadaver dogs were brought out there, correct?

WILLIAMS: Yes, that`s the case.

GRACE: But isn`t it true, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, that you have to wait a certain period of time after death before a scent will be released from the body on which cadaver dogs will alert?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes, that`s absolutely true, Nancy. Decomposition actually begins instantly. There are changes within the tissues that take place, something called autolysis (ph) begins, and bacteria start working on the body from outside and inside. But this conversion to these aromatic, these volatile chemicals does take some time, and you`re not going to notice decomposition right away. I don`t believe a cadaver dog or any other technology could detect those substances early on.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Renee Rockwell, trial lawyer out of Atlanta, Alan Ripka, veteran defense attorney joining us out of our New York studios. We`re taking your calls live.

You know, Renee, let`s just break it down. All these theories about an accidental death -- maybe she drowned. Maybe she fell. You know what? If she fell or she drowned by accident, why not call 911?

Do you remember when baby John David fell off the bed? He fell off the bed just as I was going to work. I didn`t run and try to bury his body out in the back yard. No. I ran out in the street with the baby wailing, trying to hail a cab to get him to the doctor. When we got there, he had a red mark right there, which disappeared. I had nothing to show to the doctor.

So all this about it may have been an accident -- where`s 911? Where are the police? Where are the attempts to try to save the baby? Where`s calling the neighbors? It didn`t happen that way!

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, but you can`t compare yourself to this young lady. First of all, she has acted very mysteriously for a number of reasons. But the worst thing that she`s doing for herself, Nancy, is she keeps talking and talking. All she`s doing is telling more and more stories, more lies.

What is interesting, Nancy, is that they`re piling these charges on not to keep her in jail because they think there are criminal charges that are going to stick. I think they`re trying to break her down, Nancy, and they`re waiting for her to break. She`s not seeing her parents. She`s not really seeing visitors. And eventually, I think they`re waiting for her just to come forward and tell it all.

GRACE: Oh, Alan Ripka, I could not disagree more. Rosie, pull that sound for me of the judge regarding child neglect. These charges are going to stick, Alan Ripka.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the charges may wind up sticking, but Nancy, I think they did it because they have a certain timeframe in which to charge her. And if they don`t charge her, they have to release her.

GRACE: She`s been charged! She`s been charged.

RIPKA: I understand that. But they have to charge her with murder or something like that. They charged her with these things, I believe, so that they would keep her in jail, and they did so wrongfully. I believe they`re doing it to...

GRACE: Why do you say they did so wrongfully?

RIPKA: Because at the end of the day, this is not -- it`s not necessary to charge her with child neglect if they think she murdered the child.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That`s a non sequitur. That does not follow. She is charged with child neglect, according to a judge and a prosecutor, because she handed the baby over to someone irresponsibly, who then kidnapped the baby, someone by her own admission she can`t locate, doesn`t know where they live, doesn`t have a phone number, nada, zilch.

RIPKA: But they don`t believe it. They don`t believe she handed the baby over to the babysitter.

GRACE: But by her own admission, if she did what she claims she did, that`s child neglect.

RIPKA: OK, so are those the charges? So in other words...

(CROSSTALK)

RIPKA: That`s all they believe she did, then. Is that true? No.

GRACE: But that doesn`t matter. That doesn`t matter. You`re saying that the charges against her are incorrect. They are not incorrect.

RIPKA: Well, at the end of the day, Nancy, they either believe there was an accident or she murdered the baby, or they believe she turned her over to a babysitter. Which one is it? Which one is it?

GRACE: Well, Alan, once again, you have danced away from the question. The issue is, you said the charges were incorrect. Why is a child neglect charge incorrect? Please limit yourself to that answer.

RIPKA: Because I believe that they believe there was no babysitter.

GRACE: You believe...

RIPKA: They have proof there`s no babysitter, right?

GRACE: ... they believe...

RIPKA: Well, Nancy, that`s the reason. They know there was no babysitter...

GRACE: Therefore, they should have charged her!

RIPKA: With what?

GRACE: At this juncture, child neglect, until they have more evidence.

RIPKA: If nothing else, they have her lying to the authorities about the babysitter and about her whereabouts.

GRACE: Obstruction?

RIPKA: Obstruction, potentially. But certainly not child neglect.

GRACE: OK. Out to the lines. Nicole in Arizona. Hi, Nicole.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was curious as to if anyone had any reason for this woman`s hostility towards the media and her attitude in general. I myself have a 2-year-old son, and if anything happened to him, I wouldn`t be being quite so rude. I would be lobbying the media to find out what I could, should I not be the one who did anything to my child.

GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go to psychologist Caryn Stark. What about it, Caryn?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, this is not your typical person, Nancy. This is somebody who doesn`t have those kind of feelings. And absolutely, if it were you caller, she would do something about it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! You understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!

CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, huge waste.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source close to this investigation tells us detectives now believe something happened to Caylee. It could have been an accident, perhaps a drowning. Maybe she was left in a hot car. Whatever the case, our source tells us they believe it happened June 16. That`s the day she was last seen by her grandfather. And hours later, they report, a flurry of phone calls made by Casey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That flurry of phone calls made to her parents at their cell and their work unanswered. But it is interesting, isn`t it, Mark Williams, that according to what we heard grandmother Cindy say on the telephone, no messages were left about her, Caylee, being in danger because remember, on that 911 call, she turns to mom, Casey, and says, You know what? I`m going to go to court and get this baby away from you. If there had been a message left on her phone during that flurry of phone calls saying, Oh, Mom, there`s been an accident, Caylee`s hurt, Caylee`s dead, Caylee`s something, she would not have said that to Casey one month later.

WILLIAMS: Well, you hit the nail on the head with that one, yes. And I`m surprised that Casey never left any messages on their voice-mail. As you know, with most cell phone services and even with any home service, that you usually can leave an e-mail or a voice-mail. And apparently, she didn`t do that.

GRACE: And of course, we know that the location of those cell phone calls can be tracked to within, basically, one block, so cops should know by now where she was when she was making those frantic phone calls to her family and be able to determine where they should be looking for any remains or any signs of Caylee, Mark.

WILLIAMS: That`s right. And also, you know, there was a small search party organized today in the Blanchard Park area, close to their house in east Orange County. It`s a jogging trail, and it`s a nice place for hundreds of people to either jog or walk. But this is the same area where a jogger was murdered just two months ago. So they`re looking for something over there. They didn`t turn up anything.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CYNTHIA ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other TV reports say deputies are focusing on three dates in mid-June, when Casey Anthony says she turned over her daughter to a babysitter. They`re said to be trying to track the mother`s whereabouts during that time. She`s been held on half a million dollars bond, charges of child neglect and filing a false statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us there in Orlando, just outside the Anthony home tonight, along with our producer, Natisha Lance, is Colleen Klocek and Moolah. She`s a K-9 instructor/trainer and member of the Body Hunter team, along with her dog, Moolah. Ladies, thank you for being with us. To you, Colleen. What`s the latest in the search you took part in today?

COLLEEN KLOCEK, K-9 INSTRUCTOR/TRAINER: Well, actually, we went to several locations. We went to the area over by the Anthony home. There`s an elementary school. There`s ones (ph) across from there. We searched that area. We also went to another area on La Vista (ph). We searched there, came up with nothing. We`ve been searching very, very thorough, for that matter.

GRACE: Colleen? Colleen...

KLOCEK: Yes?

GRACE: ... what is leading you to these specific areas?

KLOCEK: A lot of it is the team members and their feelings, things that have driven them there, their feelings, different things that we`re sort of putting together as far as, you know, location-wise, like the difference in, like, the flowers, the woods, the grassy fields, things like that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Web of lies, that`s what police say they`re dealing with in the search for Caylee Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Not only did Casey Anthony wait a month to report her daughter missing, but she sent investigators on a wild goose chase.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Who has her? Do you have a name?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This Zenaida Gonzalez that has been (INAUDIBLE) to us by Casey is nonexistent to this point.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When police checked with the office here, they were told nobody by that name lived here. In fact, the apartment Casey has said Zenaida lived in has been vacant for more than a year.

ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ-GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: For all the people in Florida, why would you choose my name? You know if I don`t know you and never met you, why would you choose my name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is the last person to have seen Caylee that we can rely on to give us valid information. She hasn`t done that to this point.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is Casey Anthony lying to protect herself or her daughter? Investigators wish they knew.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Straight back down to Orlando, just outside the Anthony home, standing by, Natisha Lance, along with Colleen Klocek and her cadaver dog, Moolah.

Back to you, Colleen, is it possible for your dog to mistake the scent of a human with that of an animal?

COLLEEN KLOCEK, K-9 INSTRUCTOR, TRAINER, MEMBER OF BODYHUNTER TEAM: Absolutely not. My dog is trained solely on cadaver scent. And animal scent is totally different from a human cadaver.

GRACE: And how long did you guys search today?

KLOCEK: Approximately nine hours.

GRACE: How many of you are searching?

KLOCEK: Pardon?

GRACE: How many of you are out searching?

KLOCEK: There is four of us, plus two dogs.

GRACE: Colleen, where are you from?

KLOCEK: I am from Toledo, Ohio.

GRACE: And you`ve come all the way from Toledo to join in the search for Caylee?

KLOCEK: Yes, absolutely.

GRACE: Where did you get your dog?

KLOCEK: Actually she was from a rescue.

GRACE: Let`s go now to Natisha Lance, our producer there on the scene.

Natisha, what can you tell me?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, I went out searching with them today. We started about 11:00 a.m. this morning. And going back to hitting on animal bones, there were some animal bones that the dogs came across and they did not even flinch. They went right past them.

Actually you can probably see on the video that she even held it up to the dog`s nose and they did not hit on it whatsoever. They did a grid perimeter search first.

And this is the elementary school where investigators have searched previously which is very near to the Anthony home. It`s called Hidden Oaks Elementary School. It`s a heavily wooded area. But we didn`t find anything out there today.

GRACE: Natisha, I want to go to another note. Authorities had a round table discussion -- hold on, Moolah, I`ll come to you just a moment. A round table discussion they called it today. What did we learn?

LANCE: Well, there wasn`t much that we learned. We were hoping that they would shed light on some new things so we really learned no more and no less. What they did tell us, though, is that when and if they get credible tips, they will be out with their search -- cadaver dogs searching for Caylee, exhausting all their resources as much as possible.

However, they would not speak to specifics in terms of timeline or in terms of phone records. They said anything that is specific to this case they are going to keep it under wraps right now because they don`t want anybody going on any wild goose chases out in the public.

GRACE: Natisha, I want to talk for a moment about the jail, the jail where mom, Casey Anthony, is being housed right now. I understand she is in the protective custody. Here is video of the jail where Casey Anthony is housed.

What can you tell me about a day in the life for Casey Anthony?

LANCE: That`s right. She`s in protective custody, which means that she is away from all the other inmates. She gets about an hour a day of rec time where -- in which that time she can shower, she can make phone calls. Occasionally if the weather permitting, she can go to an atrium area and get some fresh air.

She also has books available to her from the library. She does not have a pen and paper. Her attorney, Jose Baez, was actually trying to get her a pen and paper. But, however, that was not allowed for her. But she does have a lot of free time. She`s in a 7x12 foot cell just with a bed, a sink and a toilet.

GRACE: And long story short -- let`s go to Vince Velasquez, homicide detective, hostage negotiator. She`s go it good in protective custody. Explain, Vince, why it is more desirable behind bars to be in protective custody?

VINCE VELASQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO AREA, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, Nancy, basically, from what I understand, the family has been getting threats. So I would assume that there may be some inmates in the jail that are sympathetic to, you know, the cause of the family and this missing girl.

So she definitely -- if the family is getting threats, I would -- suppose that she would be, too. So it`s a good idea to have her by herself isolated. It`s the last thing the police want, the jail wants, is anything happening to her, her claiming mall treatment or anything like that, because it`s a very delicate situation at this time.

GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Alan Ripka.

You know, Renee, very often when I was dealing with rats in the courthouse, they want to be in either the medical ward or protective custody. Why?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, because there`s not too much protection at the jailhouse. And another thing, sometimes if you`re an attorney, you don`t want your client all snuggled up to anybody else because a lot of those rats are going to go in that jail cell and call the prosecutor and say, well, guess what this jail mate told me? She told me A, B and C. And a lot of times the states gets witnesses from.

GRACE: Well.

ROCKWELL: . from jail mates.

GRACE: The bottom line is the conditions are much better, the living conditions are much better behind bars if you`re on the medical ward or you are in protective custody. You don`t have a roommate. You`re not in with general population. You get a lot more attention and better treatment if you are in protective custody. That`s the bottom line.

To Alan Ripka, she is turning away all visits from her family. We have learned that it`s not the family choosing not to come see her, it`s her saying send them away. Why would an inmate do that? Normally they want visits.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, number one, Nancy, she may believe that the family is not supporting her the way they -- you know, they ought to. She also may know that conversations are being taped and that the family may be saying things to her that can inculpate her, because they`re confused as well.

So she`s made this decision probably along with her attorney to stop these kinds of conversations.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, renown forensic scientist, joining us tonight.

Kobi, what do you make of the air sample taken out of the trunk of mom Casey`s car being sent to the body farm to test the actual air within the trunk and the car? And also, if this child died accidentally on the 16th to the 18th, would we be able to determine cause of death if her remains were found today?

Well, the answer to the second question is that if it`s been two months, and it`s quite possible depending upon environmental conditions, decomposition could be so bad that the body, if there`s a body, is skeletonized. And if that`s the case, cause of death may be impossible to determine.

Getting back to the first question, what is really key -- I think that the technology is reliable to identify those components of decomposition to indicate that whatever the stain is, it`s decomposed flesh or fluid. And what`s really key is, if you find Caylee`s DNA there, now you`ve got real signs of death of Caylee.

GRACE: And quickly, Dr. Kobi, if she is deceased, will the DNA show she is deceased?

KOBILINSKY: No, absolutely not.

GRACE: Unless it`s -- unless it`s fluid from the body?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it will be fragmented due to decomposition and oxidizing damage. But, no, you can`t tell.

GRACE: OK.

KOBILINSKY: . anything about that.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Barbara in Florida. Hi, Barbara.

BARBARA, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, love your show.

GRACE: Thank you for watching and for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

BARBARA: Well, I do have a thought. When the grandfather last saw Casey and Caylee leave the house on June 16th, he said that they both had their backpacks on. And my question is if the police ever found the backpacks or did they search for them?

GRACE: To Mark Williams with WNDB, what can you tell us about them wearing back packs?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, that`s the first time I`ve heard about that -- about the backpacks. You know one of the things that they said is that Casey was wearing those gray slacks with a white dress shirt. And her mother found those in the back of the car. And, again, they smelled as bad as when she called in and said it smells like a dead body, that somebody had died in the back of the car.

And the mother, of course, washing those -- washing those slacks and washed out probably a lot of DNA evidence that the investigators were looking for. But backpacks, I think that`s still up in the air right there, Nancy.

GRACE: As we go to break everyone, while the location or even whether she`s dead or alive, little 3-year-old Caylee is in question, take a look at fine dining mom is enjoying tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I haven`t hired anyone. I do have friends of mine that I`m very close with that are doing a lot of things on their own.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Anybody that knows Casey knows that she is a loving mother and she would do anything, including sit in the jail cell to protect her daughter.

G. ANTHONY: These people that are out there that we feel might have been involved in something, yes, they`re being watched. They might not know. They`re being watched.

C. ANTHONY: But I know she`s given as many leads that she can to us without jeopardizing Caylee`s safety. So -- you know, if she knew where Caylee was at it would be easy.

G. ANTHONY: These people know they`re being watched. They know it. I can.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who are these people?

G. ANTHONY: I really can`t get into that with you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think she knows who has her?

C. ANTHONY: Absolutely she knows who has her, I mean, without a doubt.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Miss Anthony, the court would say to you, where is Caylee Anthony? I can`t ask -- I can`t force you to answer that question. But that`s the question I leave with you. Do you understand?

CASEY: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: You left a 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist at an apartment you cannot identify and you lied to your parents and friends concerning your child`s whereabouts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Right now police have identified a flurry of phone calls between the dates of the 16th and the 18th of June, just after Father`s Day weekend. They now have a theory that whatever happened to little 3-year- old Caylee happened within those 72 hours.

But, obviously no message was left on either of the phones of the mom or the dad because they still believe 30 days later that little Caylee was fine.

We are taking your calls, out to Sharon in Indiana. Hi, Sharon. Hold on.

To Eileen in New York, hi, Eileen.

EILEEN, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. Thank you for calling in. What`s your question?

EILEEN: I am wondering if Casey has TVs available to her so she`s able to see what`s being said about her and, therefore, being able to cover up some of her lies.

GRACE: She absolutely has access to television, Eileen. And if you`ll recall, in one of her earlier recorded phone calls, she was actually going over media reports or planning to go over them with her attorney, Jose Baez. So clearly they are tailoring what they have to say and their positions to what the media is learning and reporting.

Excellent question.

Do we have Sharon in Indiana?

SHARON, INDIANA RESIDENT: Yes.

GRACE: OK. To Sharon, hi, dear.

SHARON: Hi. We love your show. We watch every night.

GRACE: Thank you and thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

SHARON: My question is, has anybody considered the possibility that maybe since she was so hard up for money and stole gas and stole money that she could have sold Caylee?

GRACE: You know, let`s talk about that just for a moment.

Let`s go back out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO and Mark Williams with WNDB.

Mark Williams, police have seized her computer. They have her phone records. Obviously, if any such attempts were made, it would have turned up on the cell phone or the computer, correct?

WILLIAMS: That`s right. Because, you know, computer hard drives, you can try and delete a computer hard drive, erase it. But still they have the technology that can pull those files back. And, obviously, with the cell phones, authorities trying to ping those -- where those wireless towers were that she was hitting.

And, you know, this is an interesting theory, because if she sold the child into slavery or for drugs or whatever, the deal is, I don`t think anybody in their right mind would want a 2-year-old hanging along if they`re doing elicit trade.

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce, agree or disagree?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, respectfully, I don`t think money was that much of a problem even though she stole those gas cans. I think that she stole the gas cans because she knew she could. She seems to have had access to her parents` credit cards. They gave her housing as well as Caylee and they gave her food.

And she pretended to have a job. But really I don`t think that that`s a possibility, although investigators are open to everything.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Gale St. John, psychic team leader of The Bodyhunters searching for little Caylee Anthony.

Miss St. John, thank you for being with us. What did your search entail today?

GALE ST. JOHN, PSYCHIC, TEAM LEADER, THE BODYHUNTER, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE: Well, we were able to clear quite a few areas today. I mean, you know, we did a search and re-searched in some areas. You know the disappointing part for us is no, we did not turn up anything as of yet. But we do plan to continue the search for tomorrow.

GRACE: And what areas did you search, Miss St. John?

ST. JOHN: There is an area near the grandparents` home across from Hidden Oaks School. We did search that area today. And we also searched another area called (INAUDIBLE). There`s several wooded areas there and we were able to search those areas and clear those areas as well.

GRACE: Miss St. John, you now know that police are looking at a flurry of phone calls between the 16th and the 18th of June made by mom Casey Anthony to her parents. Their theory is that it was during those 72 hours that something happened to little Caylee.

Are you focusing your search around areas where we know mom Casey had been? For instance, the boyfriend`s place, the Anthonys` home, the check cashing company where her car was discovered, the park where she walked, Universal Studios? Are you focusing your search there or going purely on your psychic instinct?

ST. JOHN: Well, we`re doing both at this time. We have to cover have to cover all basis and that`s what`s important. It`s not just purely the psychic end of it. I mean we make sure that, like I said before we don`t leave any stone uncovered. So whether someone brings to our attentions such as this area needs to be searched, has nothing to do with whether we feel it or not, we will go out there and search it, and we have, because we`re also out at Jay Blanchard Park as well.

GRACE: To Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining us out of New York -- Caryn, at this juncture, we have noticed that mom Casey is no closer to cooperating with cops in search for her daughter.

Do you really believe an additional charge, an additional criminal charge, such as theft, would change that?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: No, Nancy, because this woman is a pathological liar, and she doesn`t seem to be affected by the kinds of things we would be. She`s a narcissist, she doesn`t have the same kinds of feelings, and she seems completely indifferent to what`s going on around her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Did you speak with Caylee over the phone at any time?

CASEY: I did one time, yes, and that was actually the date that Mom has called the police.

L. ANTHONY: OK. Do you remember what time you spoke to her?

CASEY: Around noon, it was through a private call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight out to the lines, to Heather in Missouri. Hi, Heather.

HEATHER, MISSOURI RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question?

HEATHER: My question is, in the 911 call, the mother says that Casey has been missing for 30 days. Can the police use the phone records to find out where she`s been in those 30 days and who she was with?

GRACE: Absolutely, Heather in Missouri. She can -- they can find out where she`s been by pinging or triangulating her cell phone calls down to within a block. They can even tell the velocity at which she`s traveling in a car and the direction. So they will know from those cell phone calls where she was, even if your phone is turned on. It is sending a signal to the nearest cell tower, and that`s where they get the ping, off that cell tower.

So, yes, who is she with? Don`t know unless you call from a landline belonging to somebody else. But, yes, they can find that out where she was.

To Karen in Arizona, hi, Karen.

KAREN, ARIZONA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

KAREN: I just want to know where is Caylee`s father in all of this?

GRACE: Caylee`s father is deceased.

Very quickly to Nikki Pierce, what do we know about the biological dad? It`s very hard for me to believe the grandparents when they say they don`t know. Wouldn`t you say who`s the father if your daughter turns up pregnant out of high school?

PIERCE: Well, the short answer is, yes, I think you would say that, but as far as we know, the father is deceased, and the paternal grandparents don`t even know that they have a grandchild. So he`s not in this picture.

GRACE: At least that`s what we have been told.

Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Joseph Gamboa, 34, Yigo, Guam, killed, Iraq. Lost his life two weeks before finishing a second tour. Dedicated to family, loved spear fishing, hanging out with friends, karaoke, bowling. Leaves behind parents Cecilia and Francisco, eight siblings, widow Michelle, five children.

Joseph Gamboa, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us, and happy birthday to friend of the show, Steve Williams, and a special good night from Georgia friends of the show, Chris and Catherine.

Aren`t they beautiful?

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friends.

END