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Nancy Grace
Bounty Hunter Says He`ll Post Bond for Jailed Tot Mom
Aired August 15, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for eight long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. Mom, Casey Anthony, now set to walk out of jail within 72 hours from now, a California bail bondsman en route to Orlando to put up $50,000 bond. Tonight, he is with us live.
And stunning developments. Cell phone triangulation places mom, Casey, at a remote and isolated area near Orlando`s airport just one day after little Caylee last seen alive, heavily wooded, surrounded by ponds, this after police hone in on 72 hours just after Caylee was last seen alive Father`s Day weekend, including a mysterious flurry of calls from mom, Casey, to parents` work and cell phones.
Just hours ago, grandmother, Cindy Anthony, behind closed doors at police headquarters. Local report, sources within police say little Caylee is dead. And police formally announce no evidence whatsoever to support mom, Casey`s, claims that little Caylee was kidnapped. But will a legal loophole prevent mom, Casey, from ever facing charges more serious than child neglect? The Anthony family hiring a spokesperson to handle media. DNA results are here and fluid discovered in mom, Casey`s, car still under lock and key. We learn investigators are testing 30 separate forensic samples. Tonight, where is little Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her mother, Casey, is going home from jail on Monday. Local reports say a California-based bail bondsman is flying to Orlando to put up the half million dollars required for her release.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 30 days in jail hasn`t worked. A person in jail is hard-pressed to get information from. However, you get them out to where they can talk and take a hot shower and get a good meal, and they become more pliable, more -- in discussing things that have happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The report places Casey in a remote, wooded area days after her daughter`s disappearance. No one has seen 3-year-old Caylee Anthony since mid-June.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve found a long period of time where the mother was at Orlando airport, and they want to know why did she spend so much time at Orlando airport? Why did she make a significant number of calls there? Well, that could have been the time she was burying a body or something.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee`s grandmother has stuck with Casey`s false story about Caylee`s disappearance a week earlier until detectives confronted her with pictures of Caylee visiting with her great-grandfather on Father`s Day, June 15.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: I have not seen her since the 7th of June.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you guys lying to investigators on purpose, misleading them?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Local media say that Casey Anthony is going to be bailed out of jail as of Monday. She`s charged with child neglect, obstruction and making false statements.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not believe that the young -- that the baby -- the 3-year-old is dead. We believe that she misplaced her, did something wrong, but we don`t believe that she`s dead. However, if it turns up that something happened, nothing is lost. I mean, she`s going to be under 24/7 surveillance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are acres of woods and scrub and water in this remote area less than five miles and less than a 10-minute drive from Caylee Anthony`s grandparents` house. Channel 9 has learned that for some reason, Caylee`s mother came to this area the day after Caylee disappeared. Very little traffic comes through this area, and at night it would be very dark here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were a flurry of phone calls, a half dozen in all, starting at 3:03 PM that Monday afternoon, ending about 4:24 PM, to the mother`s cell phone, the father`s cell phone. Apparently, she even didn`t get any answers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey lied about the day, and the cell phone records are helping investigators find out what else Caylee`s mother has lied about.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So how come everybody`s saying you`re lying?
CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: Because nobody`s (DELETED) listening to anything that I`m saying!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to talk to her because she is the last person to have seen Caylee that we can rely on to give us valid information. And she hasn`t done that to this point.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: They really think a warm shower and a little cable TV on the sofa will make mom, Casey, tell the truth? Out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, what`s the latest?
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, breaking news, Nancy, huge developments today. As you`ve mentioned, mom, Casey, could get out of jail as early as Sunday. A famous bounty hunter and his bail bondsman nephew are headed here from California to bail Casey out and set her free.
GRACE: Now, what can you tell me about the bond amount, Nikki? Now, we`re hearing $500,000, but don`t they only have to put up 50 thou?
PIERCE: They would have to put up $50,000 normally, yes, but since this gentleman`s nephew is a bail bondsman, I don`t think they`re going have to.
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to the bounty hunter bailing out Casey Anthony, the mother of missing 3-year-old Caylee. Joining us tonight from Sacramento is Leonard Padilla. Mr. Padilla, thank you for being with us.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Good afternoon. How are you?
GRACE: I`m fine. Who contacted you about this case, sir?
PADILLA: The original contact came from a friend of mine in New York, who suggested that there was something that could be done here. And I myself and my family have gotten involved in high-profile cases in the past, and sometimes it required bailing a person out of jail so they could talk to somebody other than law enforcement.
Obviously, in this particular situation, he put me in contact with the attorney, and I discussed it with the attorney. And as long as there`s no interference with his defense of the young lady or interference with the law enforcement, I said to my nephew, I said, Look, if we get her out of jail, she`s liable to be more pliable as far as talking to somebody. She`s sat in there for 30 days. It hasn`t done law enforcement any good. Let`s take a run at it.
I`m looking at it like this. I don`t think that the 3-year-old is dead. I think she`s alive. I think Casey just handed her off to a baby- sitter. These young ladies, when they`re sometimes on drugs and things of that nature, they don`t remember from one day to the next what they`ve done, and I believe that`s what`s taken place here. Now, I would rather see my theory proved out than to find out that she died, you know, or she had an accident or whatever, you know? I`d rather find Caylee alive.
GRACE: With us tonight in his first primetime exclusive interview all the way from California, about to head en route to Orlando, is bail bondsman, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla.
PADILLA: Yes, I`m a bounty hunter, not a bail bondsman.
GRACE: You just stated that you believe Caylee is alive. Why?
PADILLA: There`s nothing that has been done that proves to me that she`s dead. Cadaver dogs don`t prove to me that she`s dead.
GRACE: Why?
PADILLA: Because I`ve been around this business for 33 years, and I`ve seen cadaver dogs hit on things that sometimes don`t turn out to be the person.
GRACE: When? When did you see that?
PADILLA: I`ve seen it in California on many, many homicides.
GRACE: What homicides?
PADILLA: One in California that was the most recent was a lady and her husband were in jail basically on child neglect charges, and it was a situation where in that particular instance, they found the child dead. They actually found the child dead, but the use of cadaver dogs didn`t prove that she was dead.
GRACE: Well, did the cadaver dogs hit on anything?
PADILLA: No, they didn`t at the time. And the child was buried in the back yard, and we bailed the lady out and she told us within a couple of hours what had happened. They`d killed the child, burned her in the fireplace and buried her in the back yard.
GRACE: So bottom line, the cadaver dogs did not hit on something incorrectly.
PADILLA: Correct.
GRACE: OK. So have you ever seen a cadaver dog, a highly trained cadaver dog, not one but two separate cadaver dogs, hit in the same spot and that spot not be accurate? Have you seen that, Mr. Padilla?
PADILLA: Yes. Yes, I have. Yes.
GRACE: When?
PADILLA: Yes. I can`t remember the last time, but I`ve seen it happen.
GRACE: You stated that you believe Caylee is alive.
PADILLA: Yes, I do.
GRACE: And your reasoning is because of the cadaver dogs?
PADILLA: No, no, no. In other words, if the situation was such that there was more than just what has happened as far as the cadaver dogs, you know, an eyewitness to a situation -- I mean, I understand that she went and borrowed a shovel from a neighbor and she had a couple of empty gas cans in the trunk of her car. These are all very incriminating things. I understand they`re that they`re looking at 30 pieces of DNA that (INAUDIBLE) at the lab.
All of these things individually don`t mean much. But now, if they really put something together, yes, they`ll charge her with a homicide. Me, I`d rather believe that the child is alive and that something has been overlooked.
GRACE: OK. You mentioned that you really firmly...
PADILLA: Yes.
GRACE: ... that Casey Anthony handed the baby off to a baby-sitter.
PADILLA: Correct.
GRACE: What baby-sitter?
PADILLA: Well, I would start with the -- Zenaida.
GRACE: They have started with Zenaida, Zenaida Gonzalez.
PADILLA: Is it the right Zenaida? Is it the correct Zenaida, the right Zenaida? My understanding is law enforcement showed Caylee (SIC) some pictures and she said no, that`s not her, and that they went and got a Zenaida, and she says, I don`t know her and I don`t know the baby.
GRACE: Mr. Padilla, you mentioned that a lot of young mothers on drugs, they hand their baby off. Do you have any evidence that Casey Anthony used drugs?
PADILLA: No. I`m just saying that her actions and her activities suggest to me that she possibly drinks past the point of reasonableness and that she possibly does drugs. Those are the things that I have ascertained by looking at her pictures and things on television. I could be wrong.
GRACE: And Mr. Padilla, you say that you believe getting her out from behind bars will soften her up and she will cooperate with police. Why?
PADILLA: No, she won`t cooperate with police. I don`t think she`ll cooperate with police. I think she`ll cooperate with somebody other than police.
GRACE: Such as?
PADILLA: Well, I have people that have done bounty hunting. We -- you know, we hunt criminals that are gone for sometimes six months to a year, and we have to talk to relatives. We have to cajole girlfriends, boyfriends. I mean, we`re in the business of talking to people and getting information.
GRACE: Joining me, everyone, tonight, in his first exclusive primetime interview, Leonard Padilla, the man heading to Orlando to get Casey Anthony out of jail.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Teresa in West Virginia. Hi, Teresa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are my hero. I love you.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I disagree respectfully with the bounty hunter. I believe that this young lady has a narcissistic personality disorder, and I believe that her parents are being coached by profilers or someone. One of the comments the mother made was about her daughter being mother of the year when this all comes out.
I don`t believe her parents really are going along with everything she`s saying. I think they are trying to gain her trust, playing up to her ego and hoping that she will tell them the truth. And I was wondering, you know, you probably know more, you know, how the police get people to crack, how they get them to tell the truth. I think your mother and your father would be the first people that you would tell.
GRACE: You know, I think you`re absolutely correct, Teresa in West Virginia. So far, it hasn`t worked with the parents. And we learned about a web of lies told by mom, Casey Anthony, not only to her parents but to her brother, to the boyfriend she was living with intermittently while little Caylee went missing, and even to his roommates. The lies become more and more fantastic.
More breaking news. In addition to Casey Anthony set to walk free 72 hours from right now, we learn that reports have surfaced cell phone triangulation records point to a remote and isolated area near the Orlando airport the day after little Caylee last seen alive.
To Kathi Belich with WFTV. What is the significance? Why does that stand out to police that she was in that area?
KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, first of all, let me clear up that what I reported was documents showed that she was in that area. The reason it`s significant is I think there`s no reasonable or easy explanation for why she would have been in that area. We won`t name the street involved, but apparently, after having been there, there`s really nothing there. And if you go to the end of the street there`s really nothing. There`s a lot of woods, a lot of brush and a lot of water there. You just look at the area, and you can`t figure out what in the world she would have been doing there.
GRACE: Joining us there in Orlando, Florida, is Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, we`re showing the viewers right now footage of the area in which cops say triangulation places mom, Casey Anthony. Now, when you say there`s nothing there, we are seeing a very heavily-wooded area surrounded by ponds, is that correct?
BELICH: Yes, that is correct. What I mean by nothing is there`s not really a -- there`s not a restaurant, there are not businesses that most people would frequent. There`s no easy explanation as to what she might have been doing in that area. And from what I understand, it`s a break in her routine.
GRACE: Right. To Kathi Belich, joining us there in Orlando. Do we have any idea how long the cell records place her there?
BELICH: No, and I haven`t reported that cell records have placed her there, but I understand it was during the daytime, and that`s really all I know about that at this point.
GRACE: Nikki Pierce with WDBO also joining us. Anything you can add to that, Nikki?
PIERCE: Well, as you just heard from Kathi Belich, she exclusively got that information and did let everyone know about it last night. I know that police had said that there was really no way to prove the amount of time that Casey had spent in that area or if she was simply driving by. The airport is close, so she could have been picking someone up or dropping someone off, as we know she has done in the past.
GRACE: Well, I want to go out to our telecommunications expert joining us out of Raleigh tonight, Ben Levitan. Mr. Levitan, thank you for being with us. When they say they can`t tell how long she was there, can`t they ping or triangulate the particular call, and then as long as that cell phone is on, can`t they get a signal as to where it is?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, that`s right, Nancy. Basically, in that Orlando area around the airport, there are 31 cell towers, and there are on those 31 cell towers a total of 271 antennas. Now, if you`re out on the street, as we`ve described, she could probably get a signal to a cell tower and be connected to the cell tower, even if she wasn`t making a call. But if she walked into the woods, what would happen is every three minutes or so, the cell phone company pings your phone to see if you`re still there and update your location.
Now, if you don`t respond to about the third ping, it just considers you gone, that maybe you turned off your phone. So we could easily determine how long she spent in the woods by finding out in the records when the phone stopped responding to pings, which we would assume is the time that she was in that densely-populated area under a canopy of trees that would not let a signal go through, like being in an elevator with your cell phone.
GRACE: Right.
LEVITAN: And then when she came back out and then was in sight of a cell site again...
GRACE: It would pop back up again.
LEVITAN: ... it would pop back up. That`d give you, I would say, an accuracy of three minutes.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF MISSING TODDLER`S MOM: We love you. And you know, please think of anything that we can help find Caylee because as soon as we can help find her, it`s going to be, you know, open and shut to get you out of there, OK, darling?
CASEY ANTHONY: Absolutely. I know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a continuous photo of (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look how large it is (INAUDIBLE) people can identify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the grandfather.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As for driving...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love it. Two small children? For a second, I`m, like (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your emotions are here, your heart starts beating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody has positive thoughts that little girl`s going to come home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Bombshell. Mom, Casey Anthony, is set to walk out of jail in 72 hours from now. And now we learn, apparently from a leak from within the police department, cell phone triangulation places mom, Casey, at a remote and isolated heavily-wooded area the day after little Caylee last seen alive, out of her normal routine.
We are taking your calls live. Straight out to Bernie Florida. Hi, Bernie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m also a grandmother of twins. And thank you for staying on the case. My question is, when I watch this Casey, it always crosses my mind that she is a pathological liar. I`ve heard it -- you know, referred to her as a pathological liar. My concern is, what creates a pathological liar? And also, what can parents learn not to raise a pathological liar?
GRACE: To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychoanalyst (SIC) and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Lillian, welcome. Tonight we`ve heard terms such as narcissistic personality disorder, pathological liar. Weigh in.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, basically, you are seeing a lot of pathology with this young woman. She has lied, lied, lied. And you see the fact that there`s something suspicious really going on. There`s a lot of covering up by a lot of people.
GRACE: Lillian, do you really think if Leonard Padilla gets her out of jail, the bounty hunter from Sacramento, that she`s really going to tell the truth just because she gets a hot shower...
GLASS: Absolutely not.
GRACE: ... and a sofa?
GLASS: Absolutely not. And I thought that was rather naive, in listening to the bounty hunter because that`s not going to happen at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we now know is that almost 60 days have passed. What we want to do and are -- most importantly, what we need to do is keep the focus finding Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are acres of woods and scrub and water in this remote area less than five miles and less than a 10-minute drive from Caylee Anthony`s grandparents` house. There are 37 cell towers in 10 miles around here. Casey lied about the day, and the cell phone records are helping investigators find out what else Caylee`s mother has lied about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Mom, Casey Anthony, is set to walk out of jail 72 hours from now. Joining us right now, the man who plans to get her out of jail, bounty hunter from California, Leonard Padilla. We are taking your calls live.
Mr. Padilla, earlier you said that you believe mom, Casey, may have, quote, "misplaced" Caylee.
PADILLA: That`s correct.
GRACE: What did you mean? How do you misplace a baby?
PADILLA: I think there`s...
GRACE: I mean, I`ve got two of them, and it`s very hard to misplace them.
PADILLA: Well, let me tell you, I walked out of Keisar (ph) Stadium in San Francisco after a soccer match in 1970, and I turned to my wife and I says, Where`s Julie? And she says, Don`t you have her? And it took us one hour of hell...
GRACE: One hour. Well...
PADILLA: ... of hell before a woman, a wife of one of the Brazilian soccer team players, took her away from a woman...
GRACE: Let me get back to...
PADILLA: ... took her away from a woman that was leading her away.
GRACE: Why do you think Casey has misplaced Caylee?
PADILLA: Because I think she`s on drugs and I think she drinks, and I think she passed her off to a baby-sitter so she could spend more time without being bothered, with her boyfriend. And the next thing is, she can`t find baby-sitter. And then when she does...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Miss Anthony, the court would say to you where is Caylee Anthony?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The timeline in this case before now has been unclear, June 15th. It is now the date detectives feel most certain the toddler was last seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time you saw Caylee?
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I know for a fact it was June 15th.
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: On the 15th she told me at that time I have not seen my daughter in 31 days.
C. ANTHONY: I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know what the timeline is. We know that when she called us and we know the date. That`s her timeline. I mean somewhere between that day and today that child`s still out there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Caylee Anthony?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE: In my gut she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s close to home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: In addition to learning that mom Casey is set to walk free within 72 hours from now, we also learned that triangulation has placed Casey Anthony at a remote and isolated wooded area. Triangulation was the method used. We also learned that today behind closed doors grandmother Cindy Anthony meets with police.
Also, let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Penny Douglass Furr out of Atlanta and Hugo Rodriguez, former FBI agent, now a defense attorney, joining us out of Florida.
Welcome, attorneys.
Let`s go to the lines, Valerie in New York. Hi, Valerie.
VALERIE, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I am so consumed by this. Hi, friend. And your babies are beautiful. But I am very upset by this and I would do anything to protect my child. Wouldn`t you? And I think that is what the Anthonys are doing. And.
GRACE: You know, Valerie, I thought I knew all about what victims go through, having been a crime victim myself until I had the twins. This makes Casey Anthony`s behavior even more incomprehensible to me.
What is your question, dear?
VALERIE: I would do anything to protect my child, and I think these grandparents are being treated terrible.
GRACE: You know, I agree they are being pilloried in the press and I think that they are reacting from a place of love, not only for little Caylee, but they love their daughter and they want to believe what she`s telling them, although many of us see it in direct contradiction to the evidence that we know of right now.
Back to the lawyers, Penny Douglass Furr and Hugo Rodriguez. There is legal speculation that because she is currently charged with child neglect, if a trial goes forward or there is a guilty plea in that, that she would be stopped from being charged with murder under double jeopardy.
Now, Penny Douglass Furr, I see additional elements to prove murder. So this would not be double jeopardy and she could face murder charges if a body were ever found. Do you disagree?
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I do disagree, and as a matter of fact, I understand in Florida this is a procedural matter and not double jeopardy. I`ve made the same argument based on double jeopardy and won, but if it`s the set of circumstances that deal with the disappearance of the child, if the death was also from that, then the state would need to do everything at one time.
If they don`t do everything at one time, Nancy, I believe they would not be able to pursue it later. So her attorneys -- if she did this -- would need to do a speedy trial demand and go forward immediately.
GRACE: Hugo Rodriguez, agree?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER FBI AGENT: I think she can be tried. In Florida, it has to be inextricably intertwined. Right now we have child endangerment and false statements. That can be proven without getting into any of the elements of a possible homicide, and I don`t think that any prudent prosecutor would jeopardize that and they well know that.
GRACE: Now -- so, are you saying, Hugo, that the state can go forward right now with the child neglect claim, then if Caylee is found dead, they can go forward with a murder charge in the future?
RODRIGUEZ: I don`t know exactly what the elements are and what they would be proving. I personally think they made a mistake in charging her right now, but that`s beside the point, because she`s not cooperating and I don`t -- and now she has Sixth Amendment and Fifth Amendment privileges.
But what you`re saying to me, we have false statements. Obviously false statements can be proven without.
GRACE: No. I`m talking strictly about, if they go forward with child neglect charges now, if Jose Baez files a speedy trial demand -- what that means, everybody, is the state`s got to put up or shut up. They`ve got to go to trial between three and six months from the day he files that speedy trial demand. It`s in the constitution. You got a right to a speedy trial.
Are you telling me, Hugo, that you do not believe, if they go forward with child neglect now, that later she could face a murder charge? Yes, no.
RODRIGUEZ: I think she could face a murder charge. I don`t think that the elements of child neglect.
GRACE: Yes, no?
RODRIGUEZ: No, she could face murder charges. She could face murder charges is what I`m telling you.
GRACE: OK. And Penny, you`re saying no, she could not?
DOUGLASS FURR: If the neglect led to the death of the child, it`s based on the same circumstances, then she can`t.
GRACE: No, no, no, no, no, no. But see, that`s where the facts are catching you, Penny Douglass Furr, because the neglect charge specifically points out the neglect is handing her off to a babysitter that is unreliable. Now the child`s gone. That`s the neglect the judge talks about.
A murder charge would require completely different elements. If this child`s body is found -- those are different elements to be proven in a court of law. It`s not just neglect tending her off to a babysitter. It is killing the child.
DOUGLASS FURR: I understand, Nancy, but the neglect led to the murder, Nancy, and they.
GRACE: No, no, no.
DOUGLASS FURR: And there is definitely an argument that they can`t go forward.
GRACE: Because the whole neglect charges would be a lie. There would never have been a babysitter.
DOUGLASS FURR: So then the state would be liable for charging her when there was no evidence, that there was any neglect? Is that what you`re now arguing?
GRACE: The only evidence is her own statement
DOUGLASS FURR: I believe if.
RODRIGUEZ: Nancy.
GRACE: So your client is in a whole heap of trouble now. Hugo?
RODRIGUEZ: Nancy, you`re not going believe this, but I agree with you. They way it`s charged now.
GRACE: Yes, I don`t.
RODRIGUEZ: . I think they can go. I think they could both go forward on a homicide charge whether it be murder or some type of a manslaughter.
GRACE: Well, you know what?
RODRIGUEZ: . but the way the -- case is now filed they could prove all those elements without, I think, impacting on the (INAUDIBLE) and homicide part.
GRACE: I think between the three of us, we just proved to viewers why lawyers argue all of the time.
Back out to the lines, Paula in Florida. Hi, Paula.
PAULA, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just want to tell you I watch you every night. Love your babies.
GRACE: Thank you.
PAULA: You are my hero. My son and I watch you every night.
GRACE: I don`t deserve that, but thank you. What`s your question, dear?
PAULA: Well, I don`t understand two things. I don`t understand why she`s going to be able to get out on bail. I`ve been following your story every night, but I don`t understand that for number one.
And for number two, do you think that she`ll flee if she gets out of jail and I don`t think -- I don`t understand why the parents seem to be so gullible as to anything she tells them that they believe.
GRACE: She has a right to a bond in a case of child neglect. For a judge to set a bond, she`s got a right to that. The judge set a fairly high bond of $500,000, but bottom line -- to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who is going to bail her out of jail from Sacramento, California, you don`t have to put up $500 thou.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER BAILING OUT CASEY ANTHONY: No.
GRACE: How much do you have to?
PADILLA: No. My nephew -- my nephew will put up a bond in the value of $500 thou. He has a line of credit and a line of guarantee with a surety company out of Houston, Texas. And he`ll post a bond through a local bondsman.
GRACE: How much does he have to put up?
PADILLA: $500,000 in value. In other words, if she was to fail to appear he would then have 90 days in which to bring her back into court or he would lose $500 thou to Orange County.
GRACE: So you don`t have to put just 10 percent?
PADILLA: No, no, he`s got to put up a bond worth 500 grand.
GRACE: Worth 500 grand.
PADILLA: Yes. But Nancy, let me -- add something to the conversation about prosecution. You also have federal civil rights violations that could be invoked by the federal government if she`s tried on the local charges.
GRACE: Civil rights under.
PADILLA: That doesn`t -- double jeopardy does not attach.
GRACE: . under what theory since she is not in a protected class. What civil rights?
PADILLA: Excuse me?
GRACE: A child at this juncture is not deemed a protected class such as a minority or a woman.
PADILLA: Well.
GRACE: . or a handicapped person. So what is the protected class?
PADILLA: I am saying that it could be invoked. I`m not saying that the federal government would get away with it, but I am saying is the federal government might come along and invoke something like that because, you know, you never know.
GRACE: I need a yes-no answer from the lawyers.
Penny Douglass Furr, possible or not possible?
DOUGLASS FURR: Nancy, I think it`s not possible.
GRACE: OK.
DOUGLASS FURR: But I think he`s a lay person and where he`s going is he`s doing something under 1983.
GRACE: Hugo, agree or not?
RODRIGUEZ: I`m going to disagree at this time. I don`t think there is any.
GRACE: OK. Got it.
RODRIGUEZ: . 1983 civil rights violation.
GRACE: Very quickly, I want to go Vince Miller with Chromosomal Labs.
Vince, big question to me. Soil was taken out of the back of the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. Could they determine where that soil came from even if it`s similar to the Anthony`s backyard?
VINCE MILLER, VP & CHIEF TECHNICAL OFFICER, CHROMOSOMAL LABORATORIES: Possibly. There may be some residues, say, for instance, in this case, at the airport area. There may be something that`s associated with the airport that would make it more indicative of -- as opposed to the soil in her backyard. So they may be able to identify it. They may not be able to.
GRACE: With me, Vince Miller, the chief technical officer of Chromosomal Labs in Phoenix, Arizona.
We are taking your calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY: I just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back. And you know what? That`s all I care about right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Where is Caylee Anthony?
CINDY: There`s something wrong. I can`t find my granddaughter. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: You left your 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist and at an apartment you cannot identify.
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER: The gas can situation was someone had broken in to my shed, stolen my two gas cans.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was it your daughter then that you found had taken them?
G. ANTHONY: All I can say is it was in front of her car. That`s all I can tell you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What can you say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead or might be in an accident?
G. ANTHONY: Shut up!
CINDY: Quit publicizing that stuff. She`s out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing to indicate that she`s not alive. We are hoping that this child is alive and we would love it if this child is alive and well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Straight back out to Vince Miller, VP and technical officer at Chromosomal Laboratories. I want to go back to the soil, soil found in mom Casey`s trunk. You`re telling me that if they got the right soil to compare it to, they can determine where it came from?
MILLER: Possibly and possibly not. It really depends on if there`s any specific trace elements that are unique to that area. They may be able to trace it or at least be able to eliminate some other areas so there are some possibilities.
GRACE: And what factors will determine how well remains are preserved?
MILLER: Well, the biggest enemy for preservation of remains is water, and obviously, where they live there`s a lot of moisture and water, so remains will tend to degrade fairly quickly, and that, obviously, impacts that.
GRACE: I want to go to Brian Reich, deputy chief with Bergen County Sheriff`s Office.
Brian, thank you for being with us. If investigators are able to narrow down from this cell phone triangulation where she was, will it be an easy matter at that juncture for dogs to locate remains?
BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well it`s going to be very difficult as the last guest just said. There`s a lot of water there and the water`s definitely going to inhibit a lot of the detection by the cadaver dogs. So they`re going to have to set up a perimeter. They`re going to have to do a grid search and they`re going to have to go parcel by parcel and narrow it down. But it`s going to be difficult because of all of the water that`s there.
GRACE: Now the cell phone records are indicating she was at a very heavily-wooded area near the Orlando Airport. What`s the cops` next step, Brian?
REICH: Well, they`re going to want to -- they`re going to want to search that area. You know they`ve already narrowed down possibly where she`s been and they can`t really come up with an explanation of why she was in that airport area. So they`re going want to do a search.
They`re going want to set up a perimeter and like we just talked about, try to find some soil that can maybe be compared that was found in her house or found on some of her shoes, some trace evidence, and if they can match that up and she can`t give an explanation of why she was there or during her interview or other statements lied and said, no, I was -- I never was there, and they found soil that puts her there, and they have triangulated cell phone records, historical data from her cell phone that puts her there, then that`s also, I think, some good evidence for a circumstantial case, to the very least.
GRACE: And back to Kathi Belich with WFTV, speaking of soil, remember in the car? Not only were those gray slacks found that smelled like a dead body, but her boots. Now we know the mom, unwittingly -- Cindy Anthony, the grandmother in this case -- washed the gray slacks, what about the boots? Could they have soil remnants on them?
KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV: I did ask about that and I was told that those boots were not hiking-type boots. They were maybe dancing, stylish- type boots so I got the impression that they did not -- that they would not bring.
GRACE: Right.
BELICH: . any evidence such as that.
GRACE: Kathi Belich, you`re right.
Kathi, joining us, WFTV.
Back to Brian Reich, deputy chief with Bergen County Sheriff Department.
Brian, you now know the locations just as we do. They`re all in close proximity of the Anthony home, the check cashing place, the Orlando Airport, what do you make of it?
REICH: Well, it looks like we have a -- we have a perimeter set up here. It`s a very large area, it`s a very large perimeter, but I think those cell phone records are going to be key that puts them in that area, and if I had to bet, I`m going to say that we`re going to start seeing a lot more concentration on this area here around the airport, and I think they`re going to be concentrating their efforts there, not only with interviews, with going to the airport, witness accounts, but also with searching and trying to come up with some physical evidence that`s going to be derived from this area in here.
GRACE: Now to Natisha Lance, our producer joining us there at the Anthony home in Orlando, Florida.
Natisha, thank you for being with us tonight. I understand grandmother, Cindy Anthony, at police headquarters today. What happened?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: She was at police headquarters today. And once again they do have that standing appointment on -- Monday, Wednesday, and Friday hoping to keep the lines of communication open. This time we -- they were able to get her on camera whereas her meeting on Wednesday she kind of snuck out the backdoor and nobody saw her.
GRACE: Any idea what they`re meeting about, Natisha?
LANCE: Well, we do know that Cindy Anthony is doing her own investigating. She could possibly be giving them information that she has with her following up on tips as well. She is receiving tips at her home so I`m sure she might be passing them along to police.
GRACE: And, Natisha, 20 seconds before break, what did you learn about -- at Fusion Nightclub about the possibility -- Casey Anthony was on drugs?
LANCE: Actually, I spoke to the owner of Fusion Nightclub and he said there was absolutely no indication that Casey Anthony was on drugs, nor her friends. He actually runs a very tight club there. He doesn`t even let people walk in with cigarettes on their -- on their ear.
GRACE: Everybody, we`ll be right back taking your calls, but now "CNN HEROES."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN HEROES."
CHANDRASEKHAR SANKURATHRI, MEDICAL MARVEL: 1985, my wife and two children were killed by a terrorist act. I was really lost. I did a lot of soul searching, and finally I come to the conclusion that I can be useful to other people.
I am Chandrasekhar Sankurathri.
In memory of my wife and two children, I am providing eye care to several thousands of people in India. Here, I see the need for the work that I do.
Our medical team goes to a specific village. We screen all the people and if they need any surgery, we bring them back to the hospital.
Our mission is to provide quality eye care with compassion, which is affordable to all.
She cannot believe that she`s seeing again.
It is so nice to see how much we can change their lives. What I do brings me a lot of satisfaction. At the same time, I feel very close to my family. I feel they are here with me, too. That gives me a lot of strength.
ANNOUNCER: Get involved. CNN.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: "CNN HEROES" is sponsored by.
Get involved at CNN.com/heroes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories, and more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
G. ANTHONY: Have a small cake inside. It got a number three on it. We`re going to light it. This is a tough day for us. If you guys have children, if you`re grandparents, you`re going to understand. These days like today don`t come around very often, when they do, they mean more to you than anything.
GRACE: According to reports, mom Casey Anthony behind bars had said, had long said her daughter would be home for her 3rd birthday. That day comes and passes this Saturday.
If you`re like me, I thought about that throughout the day on Saturday. Will little Caylee come home?
G. ANTHONY: We`re not giving up. We won`t give up until we find she`s home with her. And if I have to drive this thing around every day until she come home, I`m going to do it. The awareness has got to be out there every single day.
I`m not talking to anybody. Stay out of my property.
CINDY: He`s been angry every day.
G. ANTHONY: If you don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way.
CINDY: And to the fact that Caylee`s not home.
G. ANTHONY: You don`t care about my granddaughter.
CINDY: We are helpless.
G. ANTHONY: You people have no idea what we`ve gone through. You guys don`t give -- you don`t care about me, you don`t care about her. Shut up! Shut up! I`m talking. I am talking. Shut up!
CINDY: We`re falling apart.
G. ANTHONY: You don`t care about what I have to say.
GRACE: There you see the grandparents of little Caylee in an angry outburst at media, this after police sources within, deep within police, say little Caylee is, in fact, dead.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant David Williams, 26, Tarboro, North Carolina, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. Dedicated to family, loved baseball, fast cars, leaves behind mom, Susan, sister, Mary Beth, and nephew, Damien.
David Williams, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room.
Good night, Chris, Rosie.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
