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Evangelicals Gather at National Mall; Candidates Forum on Faith; Russia and Georgia Sign Peace Deal

Aired August 16, 2008 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Eyes closed, hands up, hearts out. Thousands of evangelicals flock to Washington seeking divine mercy on a divided nation.
And this young man right here probably regretting that he chose a noose to make a statement. He is going to spend some time behind bars now.

And the Russians have signed the treaty so why aren't they getting out of Georgia? Russia has signed the truce with Georgia today, but at last report Russian tanks are still patrolling, not pulling out. Russian's foreign minister says there will be no full withdrawal without new security measures. Well, today Georgia is blaming the Russians for setting fire in a national park as well. That's the source of Georgian spring water exports. And as Michael Ware shows us, the Russians have bombed an important bridge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Despite the signing of a cease-fire agreement between Georgia and Russia, it appears clear that the Russian military here in Georgian territory continues to flex its muscle. Not only have we been witnessing the ongoing presence of Russian armored elements just outside the Georgian city of Gori, but where I'm standing now is on a destroyed railway bridge that the Russian military brought down.

So this is an electric firing cable that leads from the blast site somewhere over in this direction. And if we follow it, we'll find where the Russians were positioned when they detonated the explosion. And when we followed the cord, we found that it ends here, behind this covert not father from the bridge. This is clearly where the Russian soldiers were with their detonating device as they set off the explosion. And, indeed, what do we find? But a Russian cigarette butt.

As work is above me are feverishly trying to clear the tangled wreckage of the train line, the Georgian government says the destruction of this rail line that carries oil to the key port city of Poti on the Black Sea coast have broken that agreement.

GIORGI BARAMIDZE, GEORGIAN VICE PRIME MINISTER: By doing this, Russians make not only Georgia suffer but Armenia, (Azerbajan), even companies like BP and others that are transporting oil using this particular railway. WARE (voice-over): And even though there are few, if any, real military responses that can be made either by the west or by Georgia itself, the Georgian vice prime minister says that his country was ready and willing to fight again against the Russians if it proves necessary. Michael Ware, CNN, on the outskirts of Gori.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And now President Bush is telling the Russians that two disputed separatist regions are part of Georgia right now and must remain so. That's the position the Russians, of course, reject. CNN's Kathleen Koch is in Crawford, Texas, where the president's planned vacation includes some unplanned work. But what kind of leverage, Kathleen, really does the White House have in this whole conflict?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredericka, that's a very good question. The administration right now is not committing. It's opting for stern talk and waiting really to see just what Russia does next. The president met for about 45 minutes this morning with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, fresh back from the region, also participating in the secure video conference where the other members of the president's national security team. And the president insisted that it's time right now for Russia to honor the cease-fire, to withdraw its forces. And the president took issue with Russia's contentions that those separatist regions of South Ossetia and Abkhasia may not be a part of Georgia's future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Georgia's borders should command the same respect and every other nation's. There's no room for debate on this matter. The United Nations security council has adopted numerous resolutions concerning Georgia. These resolutions are based on the premise that South Ossetia and Abkhasia remain within the borders of Georgia. And that their underlying conflicts will be resolved through international negotiations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: Now, on that point, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice does head to Brussels next week for meetings with European officials, members of NATO, foreign ministers. Rice did say that with the lack right now of any troop movements outside of Russia that "Russians are perhaps already not honoring their word." But it appears that the administration prefers to look forward, not back. Defense Secretary Robert Gates in an interview with Wolf Blitzer for "Sunday Morning's Late Edition" said that it is how Russia behaves from here on out that will determine any consequences. Gates adding there, "a lot of options for actions that the rest of the world could take." Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: That's interesting. So, in concert, a lot of folks around the world is saying it's all on Russia. All right. Kathleen Koch, thanks so much there in Crawford, Texas. Appreciate it.

So what is Russia's reaction to these allegations that it has already broken the cease-fire agreement with Georgia? Well, let's check in, live from Moscow and CNN's Phil Black. What kind of reaction are we getting from them?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, it appears that the Russian interpretation of this agreement differs somewhat significantly to that being applied by the United States. They don't see it that black and white. Today the Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov talked about the need for security measures being on the ground, being put in place and being able to hold up.

Now, what does that mean? Well, the Russians say they are busy on the ground disposing of weapons, armories that have been left behind by the Georgian forces. They also talk about civilian buildings that have been - that have bombs and traps within them. They say these need to be neutralized first. They also say that a lot of their work is now focusing on humanitarian aid, helping the people of Georgia and elsewhere rebuild and restore after the conflict. Asked when how long this work would take, they said, well, as long as they need. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. All right. So you got this cease-fire agreement. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But there seems to be still this quandary - what's the explanation, why isn't Russia simply pulling out altogether in Georgia?

BLACK: Well, they say their reading of the document says it doesn't call for that immediate pullout. Certainly the document states very clearly that they are supposed to agree and return to the positions that they held before this conflict broke out. Now Russia is saying that it needs to get certain work on the ground done before that is viable. Among them, some of the things I just mentioned, weaponry that they say needs to be secured or neutralized. They say that people on the ground still need their help in the humanitarian sense. They also point to the international community in terms of coming to an agreement on just what a final peace keeping force may look like.

And they also in fairly vague terms blame the Georgians as well and say that they're slowing them down at various turns. But, essentially, they're saying that there's still things they need to do on the ground. They're not being thoroughly specific about it, but they're not indicating just how long that will take. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Interesting. All right. Phil Black in Moscow. Thanks so much. We really appreciate that.

In the meantime, in this country, thousands of evangelical Christians are gathering on the National Mall this hour in Washington. Take a look. Our Kate Bolduan is somewhere in the mix there. We'll check in with her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The case of Louisiana's Jena 6, remember that case sparked protest and a powerful backlash. And you might remember right after the march there last year this image, a man dangling a noose from the back of his truck to intimidate perhaps demonstrators? That man, the name is Jeremiah Munson, and he was sentenced yesterday to four months in jail after pleading guilty to hate crime charges.

I-reporter Casanova Love actually captured this photo seen here on CNN, and sent the image to us. He joins us now on the phone from Hawaii. And so Casanova, when you took this image, before we talk about the consequences of such for Mr. Munson, give me an idea of what your thoughts were at the time when you saw this truck with this noose and how it was you had the wherewithal to pull out your camera and take this picture.

VOICE OF CASANOVA LOVE, IREPORTER: Well, I just felt very disrespected, you know. First I couldn't believe it, you know. I had to ask the guy next to me to make sure I wasn't seeing anything. I felt very disrespected by it.

WHITFIELD: And at the time, again, kind of recall the climate there while these demonstrations were taking place. There were thousands of people who came to Jena who had really kind of crowded this city to make a point. And then something like this were to happen. Give me an idea of how that was received.

LOVE: The people - I mean, they were disappointed about it, and they just felt also disrespected. But, you know, they were just glad that the guy was apprehended when he was, you know. They were glad it was resolved in a peaceful manner because it was there, it was winding down. It had been a long day for them.

WHITFIELD: But at the time did you think that your picture, this image, that this act of hanging the noose on the back of the truck would actually lead to any kind of criminal charge? That something would actually happen after this point?

LOVE: No, not really. I'm glad it did, though. I'm glad it did.

WHITFIELD: So do you feel like because your image ended up really making national news and it was an image that resonated with so many people across the country that your image, in part, helped lead to the prosecution of this young man? Do you feel that?

LOVE: Somewhat. Somewhat. I mean, I hate to see somebody go to jail behind stupidity like this. And I mean, for a stupid reason as what he was doing. But sometimes you got to learn. I mean, his lesson was four months. I'm sad it took - it went this route, basically, but -

WHITFIELD: Did your image become evidence in this case, or do you believe that the decision was rendered because of the memory of this image?

LOVE: I think it helped. It painted the picture, you know, because without the picture you don't have - you just have word of mouth.

WHITFIELD: Right. So without this image, do you think there would have been the same kind of decision made in a court of law with this young man as the defendant? Jeremiah Munson.

LOVE: Probably not. I don't think it would have got blown out of proportion. I think probably would have never heard about it again. WHITFIELD: It does really speak to the power of a photograph, the power of an image.

LOVE: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Do you feel - what are your thoughts about Jeremiah Munson? Do you feel like this is a tough lesson learned? Do you feel like you have made, whether it be a direct or indirect impact in his life, because of the image that you took of his act?

LOVE: I hope this is for the better. I hope he don't hate me or continue to hate people of different races because, I mean, racism is stupid and it has no part in this world. I mean, he should learn that I'm no different than him. We just have different personalities. That's it. It shouldn't be a black or white thing or Asian. Anything. It should be just - you should see me as an American. We're in America. You should see me as American and a citizen of America. We should work together to better our self no matter what race it is. So hopefully from this he can learn that and others to see that when you offend people, yes, you might have the freedom. You know, some people try to hide behind the freedom of speech and the freedom of expression, but comes at a cost also when you offend other people and you do things to harm other people and trigger things inside people that you know is disrespectful.

WHITFIELD: Casanova Love joining us from Hawaii. It was your image photographed from your camera and sent in by way of being an ireporter for CNN that now has led to what appears to be the sentence, the four- month sentence, now of Jeremiah Munson. He was the one who was driving that truck and the one who was responsible for hanging that noose on that truck there a few months back there in Jena, Louisiana. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

LOVE: OK. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: And now a story that we're going to be watching very closely over the next few days. A weather story. Tropical storm Fay is expected to hit Cuba tomorrow and it may reach hurricane strength before slamming into the Florida coast, moving from being a weather story to potentially, you know, a really human crisis story because that comes with tropical weather like this of this scale potentially. Jacqui Jeras in the weather center.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Fredericka, a lot of uncertainties with this. And you know, in preparing and getting ready ahead of this storm, Governor Charlie Crist has declared a state of emergency for Florida. You know, just to get things prepared and get troops in action if necessary. The storm here is about 50 miles away from Guantanamo Bay. It's back over the open water now so that means it has some time to start strengthening a little bit. In fact, hurricane hunters are flying in the storm right now, maximum sustained winds 45 miles per hour, but we just got a data message coming back in from that plane telling us that they've reported some surface winds now around 50 miles per hour.

So once we get that official report in at the top of the hour, we'll bring that along to you. We may start to see those maximum winds picking up a little bit already. Now, of course, the big question mark is, where is this going? What kind of impact is this going to be happening? And then, one of the big players in the forecast is how long it stays over the open water. The longer it is over open water, the greater the chance that this thing is going to be intensifying and could be intensifying significantly. A fair amount of consensus on where it's going here in the next 24-plus hours and if it gets closer to the coast and takes more of this track, we'll see more tropical storm status. But if it stays out here a little bit more, we'll continue to see that strengthening and very likely have a hurricane before it hits the Cuba coast.

Now, we are seeing some big impacts already in terms of rainfall over Hispaniola, the island that comprises Haiti and the Dominican Republic. We've already seen rainfall totals on the order of about six inches. So that's a good half a foot of rainfall, causing flooding and could be causing some mudslides as well. Here's Cuba, and here's the Doppler radar composite that we get from the Cuban Meteorological Institute, showing you this is just a bunch of junk. I'm not sure what this is not real rain here. But there you can see some of these outer bands already beginning to hit that island and bringing in some gusty winds associated with that as well.

What happens down the line, then, it means that really either coast of Florida could be hit at this point. My inclination, I'll tell you, my feeling is we're going to be seeing more of a westerly track but we're going to have to wait and see what kind of interaction happens over land. And you know, when tropical systems, Fredericka interact with land, it makes it much more difficult to predict the path. And in fact, I have to tell you this is the first time in a really long time that I've seen so much uncertainty in the future in terms of both the track and the intensity.

And so, we still got a lot of question marks here. We're going to have to pay extra close attention to Fay in terms of timing for you in Florida. I think as early as the Florida keys will start to be seeing impact maybe Sunday evening and into Monday. And then if we're going to be seeing anything out here, this will be more of a Tuesday/Wednesday event. And even the Florida panhandle not ruled out at this time or the Carolinas. So everybody over here in this chunk really needs to watch Fay throughout the weekend and early next week.

WHITFIELD: Well, I'm sure everyone will be watching particularly in the unpredictability as it underscored by the waters, too. You know, especially once you start involving the Gulf waters which are always a bit warmer and acts as fuel for storms like this. Not good.

JERAS: Right. They are. Really warm temperatures over here, Fredericka but you know, this is the gulf stream, too, in this area. We have the potential for more of a major hurricane if see more of it this route as well.

WHITFIELD: Yes. Jacqui, thanks so much for keeping us posted. We know you'll keep us abreast throughout the day and over the next few days as well. JERAS: Absolutely.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much, Jacqui.

All right. On to politics. Again, the candidates reaching out to the evangelicals tonight. What do they hope to gain politically?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: All right. They call themselves values voters. Thousands of evangelical Christians rallying in Washington today with a message they want the candidates to hear loud and clear. CNN's Kate Bolduan is on the National Mall.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPODNETN: This is an annual gathering of evangelicals. Organizers say they are expecting thousands to turn out in what we see seems like right at this point. It's a pretty safe estimate. It's a high-energy rally of evangelicals gathering together to talk about their faith and talk about the issues that they care so much about - abortion, same-sex marriage are among those. While they do say that this is more about spirituality than it is about politics, there has been politics mixed in.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will vote, and I'm waiting to hear. I'm not a registered anything. The abortion issue is probably the number one if not - I mean, it's high up on my list. It's high because I believe that speaks to character. I believe someone that's willing to stand up for life, period. There's a character definition in that. And a man of character, a woman of character, is what I believe we should have.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The problems that this country has are with us who claim we know the Lord but have not lived it and we've not been as faithful. So repentance and revival cannot start in the building behind me until it starts in the temple inside me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: That from former republican presidential candidate and pastor Mike Huckabee speaking here at the event a little earlier today. Now, evangelicals have traditionally been a strong voting base for the republican party. But as we've heard from people we've spoken to here as well as what we're seeing in the polls, there's more uncertainty among evangelicals this election than in elections past. Evangelicals really want the candidates, especially republican candidate John McCain, to come out and clearly lay out where they stand on these issues that they're talking about here today, and those issues that they care so much about when had it comes to the election. Kate Bolduan, CNN, Washington.

WHITFIELD: Well, John McCain and democrat Barack Obama will appear over at California's Saddleback Church, the home base of evangelical preacher Rick Warren. Candy Crowley is in Orange County with more on that.

So, Candy, it's a big night tonight, a face-off but then not really. Let's just say, the bricks going to be in the room. What do these candidates get out of this politically tonight.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, here's what they hope to get out of it, mostly what they actually do. But for John McCain, obviously there is still some need for him to assure evangelicals especially white evangelicals that he really is on their team. There is some skepticism about him and while he pulls much better among white evangelicals than Barack Obama does,. He's in the 60 percentile range. George Bush was in the 70 percentile range. so you can see some slippage there.

So, John McCain needs to reassure them this is not a forum that he is particularly comfortable in. He doesn't much like to talk about religion so this is his chance to kind of show where he is on a variety of issues, not just the regular abortion and gay marriage. Things that we hear but help of suffering children across the world, that sort of thing.

As for Barack Obama, what we've seen with this campaign more than any other democratic campaign I've ever seen is a real program to reach out to evangelicals in particular. Now, Barack Obama, among other religion groups, does out poll John McCain, but what he'd like to do is keep McCain's numbers down. So Obama would like to make inroads among evangelicals. He does have that kind of broader look at religion that democrats have now been trying to put there, saying it's also about feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, helping those who can't help themselves. And sort of putting it in line, religion in line, with the democratic agenda.

It's something that democrats have tried to do for years now because of the feeling that somehow democrats sort of shun religion has kept them, blocked them out of the south, locked them out of a lot of the midwest states. So Obama more than any other has really done an outreach there, and this is a continuation of that. Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: So, it almost sounds as though religion, spirituality, faith, it is playing a greater role in the race for the White House this time around.

CROWLEY: I think it is, in particular because of these two men, these particular nominees in waiting. Certainly for different reasons, have been reaching out to religious voters. So not just evangelicals obviously but Catholics, Protestants. So, all along the line, I mean, what candidates have found is that voters do want to know where a candidate stands on these kind of values. These are called value voters, not just religious voters but voters who look to the values of the candidate and they could kind of look at the core of that is how they view religion.

So, because these two candidates are out there, John McCain having to reassure evangelicals. Barack Obama trying to reach in to the values voters, it has become quite an issue. And obviously you also have Jeremiah Wright and you have the internet spread of word that Barack Obama is a Muslim, that kind of thing which really played a much more powerful front stage role in this election than any I've seen.

WHITFIELD: Interesting stuff. All right. We'll all be watching this evening 8:00 p.m. Eastern time for that forum. Candy Crowley, thanks so much. Reverend Warren outlines some of his plans for tonight earlier on CNN. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. RICK WARREN, EVANGELICAL PASTOR AND AUTHOR: We're going to look at four different segments, one is a segment on leadership, what is the personal character, competence, experience of each of these guys. One section will be on what I call stewardship, which is on the role and responsibility of the presidency, what they believe about the constitution, about the role of America.

We're going to look at a section on world view, which is all of those minefield questions that no matter how you answer them somebody is not going to like it. And then we're going to look at America's role internationally, how we've been a blessed nation and how should we bless others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: All right. And before the forum, you want to stay with CNN. John King hosts "The Next President Campaign Kickoff." That's at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And then, of course, you can watch the faith forum live tonight right here on CNN coming up at 8:00 Eastern.

But then there's more. After the forum, John King will be back with the "The Next President off and running." That's tonight at 10:00 Eastern. A pretty busy night, especially for politics, right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: People are always looking for a shortcut to slim down, and there's always a new one out there to try. So in today's "Health for Her," Judy Fortin looks at body wraps to see if this technique really works.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY FORTIN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Our constant battle with the bulge has a new weapon gaining in popularity. The basic concept is simple. Loss by bondage or body wraps. Around for decades, body wraps come in a host of styles. From minerals to mud, from moving to motionless. Their aim -- better bodies. Their claim -- less of you when you're done.

JULIE TRACEY, OWNER, SUDDENLY SLIMMER SPA: We do mineral body wraps that take off inches, and we guarantee people will lose 6 to 20 inches with the first wrap or the next one's free.

FORTIN: In the land of wraps, measurement is key. Body wrap treatments begin with taking measurements, anywhere from a dozen spots to over 20. And it's the sum total of those numbers that equals inches lost. But how do they work?

FORTIN: What the treatment does is it draws out metabolic waste and impurities from the body. That lets water flow through better because the water naturally retains to dilute the metabolic waste. Those go between the fat cells and spread things apart. So with the compression of the bandages because you are wrapped up real tight, we push those fat cells back together. That's what changes the shape.

FORTIN: Aside from inches gone, body wraps claim to help with things like cellulite, skin tone and body shaping. But some doctors aren't buying into this wrapped-up fat shaping weapon.

DR. ERICA BROWNFELD, EMORY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Their claims, they may say that they're squeezing the fat cells closer together, again I think it's very important for people to realize that you're not losing fat cells and those fat cells, once you decompress them and take those wraps off, they're going to go back to their usual shape and size. So again, these results are going to be temporary and again, there's no scientific data to support that what they're claiming is actually what's going on.

FORTIN: To wrap or not wrap is an individual decision. Just remember, if you have any medical concerns, check with your doctor before wrapping up becomes your method for shaping up. Judy Fortin, CNN, Atlanta.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Much of the western world is trying to understand the actions of Russia over the past week. CNN has just learned that Russian-backed militia in western Georgia have now seized control of more than a dozen Georgian villages and a power plant. That information coming from Georgia's foreign ministry. At last word, Russian troops are still patrolling other parts of Georgia, even though the Russians signed a cease-fire that calls for them to get out quickly. The Russian offensive started just eight days ago with a lightning thrust into the capital of a separatist region. And former soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, well he told Larry King the Russians didn't have any choice after Georgia's assault on the city.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKHAIL GORBACHEV, FORMER SOVIET LEADER: Russia was responding to what happened in Tsinvhali(ph). Russia needed to address this. Russia could not avoid addressing this assault and this devastation and the killings of people, the devastation of the city.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: To help us understand what the Russians are actually up to, we're joined by long time Russian analyst Padma Desai of Columbia University in New York. She's also a member of the council on foreign relations. Good to see you.

PADMA DESAI, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: I'm happy to be here.

WHITFIELD: Well you hear the latest words from Mikhail Gorbachev and you also hearing now that according to the Georgian foreign ministry that Russia has seized control of some territories there in Georgia. This doesn't sound like a cease-fire being respected at all. In fact, you have to wonder why did Russia even sign this cease-fire if they're going to continue on this way.

DESAI: Well, regarding Mikhail Gorbachev's statement, he's right that Russia was provoked as a result of the Georgian forces attack on the capital city of southern Ossetia. But Georgia also was being prodded and provoked for quite a number of weeks before that. Mikhail Gorbachev also said that he has been wondering what the United States' military help in a country like Georgia, which is thousands of miles away from the United States, what is the purpose of this kind of military support in a small country which is the backyard of Russia. Regarding the cease-fire, it would seem that Georgian forces are on the run, they're really outnumbered by Russian military.

WHITFIELD: So why even engage in this kind of battle, knowing that it seems like it would be futile against Russia.

DESAI: Yes, it would seem so. It was sort of a very calculated and a horrendous attempt on the part of the Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili to undertake without realizing the consequences, especially the humanitarian consequences of such an attack on both sides, the southern Ossetian side as well as on the Georgian side. But so far as the implementation of the cease-fire is concerned, the Russian foreign minister just announced in Moscow that we are going to stay in Georgia as long as we want because first of all, we would like to clean up some of the military depots which we find in Georgia as we advance. And secondly that there is a huge humanitarian problem which is arising and so we would like to take care of that also.

WHITFIELD: And that's interesting because it seems like there's loose interpretation of what this cease-fire agreement really means. Because our Phil Black who was reporting from Moscow was saying, Russia says that they don't plan to pull out that instead they just plan to respect what the cease-fire said which was return to the positions before this actual conflict were to take place. So I just wonder what is really at issue here. Is it the territory of Ossetia who can stake claims on Ossetia or is it something else that's at issue in terms of we've got the big guns or we're standing our ground or we're digging in deeper. What's really at issue here?

DESAI: I think one of the immediate goals of the Russian leadership is to ensure that the two break away units in Georgia, Southern Ossetia being one of them and Abkhazia being the other one on the black sea. These are two break away units from Georgia and therefore they would like the Russian leadership would like them to be under Russian control.

WHITFIELD: Why can't Ossetia and Abkhazia just operate on their own, then, if they're breakaways? Why would they need Russia or why would they need Georgia to be in control? DESAI: Well, I think Russia -- because Southern Ossetia was before a stalin(ph) base of Ossetia to Georgia when Georgia was one of the republics of the soviet union, dividing northern and southern Ossetia. Northern Ossetia went to the Russian republic in the soviet union, southern Ossetia went to Georgia in the soviet union. So now there is this desire for the two units to unite, and Abkhazia, I think the Abkhazians really dislike the Georgians. And you're right that --

WHITFIELD: But Abkhazia doesn't want to be a part of Russia. It wants to remain a breakaway, an independent state?

DESAI: Well, I mean, that remains to be seen as President Bush announced that so far as the stakers of these two units are concerned, southern Ossetia and Abkhazia, that that will be determined as a result of international negotiations.

WHITFIELD: How involved would you see the U.S. being and to whose benefit would it be?

DESAI: In my view, this has been a huge foreign policy blunder, a failure of the U.S. administration, because I think it has huge repercussions not only about the status of these two units, whether they'll remain in Georgia, but what will happen to the Georgian leadership's desire that it become a member of NATO? And beyond that, it will extend to Ukraine. Ukraine's membership, possible membership, in NATO will also come up in December when the European countries and NATO members meet together.

WHITFIELD: Fascinating.

DESAI: So I think this horrendous set of events currently in Georgia are raising some of the larger issues. This is also fired up now with Russian objection to the Bush administration's proposal of setting up missile defense units in Poland and the Czech Republic. And in my view, the announcement that Poland has accepted the stepping up of 10 missile interceptors on Polish soil, accompanied by a few patriot missiles, I think that is not -- that's a very counterproductive development. And the timing of it really justifies the Russian readership's worry that the entire missile defense idea and it's development on the European soil is really aimed at Russia.

WHITFIELD: This kind of now broad involvement certainly does broaden the scope of what is at stake here. Long time Russian analyst Padma Desai, Columbia University in New York. Thanks so much for your clarification on what is becoming an extremely complicated conflict which only gets to be more confusing by the day. Thanks for simplifying it as best you could. We appreciate it.

DESAI: Happy to be here.

WHITFIELD: Thank you.

All right, American politics, the candidates sit down with him tonight. But just who is him? Who is he? Rick Warren is who I'm talking about.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Both Barack Obama and John McCain share a stage for the first time tonight. They may sit down for some tough questions by Rick Warren, the pastor of a California mega church and best selling author, personally organized this forum. When we first brought you his story three years ago, "The Purpose Driven" life had become America's best selling non-fiction book ever. Thelma Gutierrez now picks up the story from there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We grew up extremely poor.

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This little boy could not have had more humble beginnings.

CHAUNDEL HOLLIDAY, RICK WARREN'S SISTER: I remember my mom sitting and trying to figure out the bills and what she was going to pay.

GUTIERREZ: Chaundel Holliday is Rick Warren's kid sister. She says Rick followed the footsteps of their father Jimmy who was a pastor. And so was Rick's great grandfather.

HOLLIDAY: This is Rick when he was about 10.

GUTIERREZ: She says growing up she knew her brother had a gift. That gift, his ability to connect with people.

HOLLIDAY: He can express the truth that preachers have been preaching for 10,000 years. There's nothing new. Rick would say that. Of course there's nothing new, it's just the way he expresses it.

GUTIERREZZ: Rick Warren is not your average southern Baptist minister. He prefers a Hawaiian shirt to a dark suit.

REV. RICK WARREN: You have to know who you are, where you came from, where you're going.

GUTIERREZ: And sounds much more like a motivational speaker than a fire and brimstone preacher.

WARREN: You don't have to be perfect to be used by God. You just have to be available.

GUTIERREZ: Rick Warren's message is spreading way beyond the walls of his church in Orange County, California.

WARREN: It's really about God. The thesis is that we were made by God for god. And until we understand that life isn't going to make sense.

GUTIERREZ: A simple thought that became "The Purpose Driven Life." Warren's friends say there was a time he wasn't so godly.

GLEN KRUEN, EXEC. PASTOR, SADDLEBACK CHURCH: Rick as a high schooler was going to be a Jimi Hendrix, a musician. Rick plays guitar. He loved music. He loved rock music. And we tease him about it.

GUTIERREZ: He was also going to be a page for the U.S. senate. But at the tender age of 16, his life took a huge turn. He preached his first sermon, went to seminary, moved to southern California and with his wife founded a church that began with just one family meeting in their home. His goal was 20,000 members, something unheard of at the time.

KRUEN: In 1980 a church of 20,000 was inconceivable. The largest churches in the era were probably 8,000 or 9,000. Those were just incredible. This was a young pastor, 28 years old.

GUTIERREZ: Warren took a methodical approach, studied other churches.

KRUEN: He wrote letters to the hundred largest churches in America asking those pastors some specific questions about their church growth. Why and why not they were growing or not growing.

GUTIERREZ: He also visited 2,000 homes asking people what they wanted from a church that they weren't getting. The overwhelming response, relevance to their lives. That became the seed for a business plan. 25 years later, Rick Warren has the largest church in the country. 20,000 faithful attending Saddleback Church each week. Tithes and offerings bring in $27 million a year. And then there's the book, it has brought in $200 million. His royalties, 25 percent of retail sales go into a separate nonprofit foundation which now pays Warren's undisclosed salary. Before the book Warren earned as much as $130,000 a year from the church. Now they say, he's giving it all back. Every penny he earned for 24 years. Does he live large?

KRUEN: He drives a Ford Expedition.

GUTIERREZ: Rick's sister says his brother, wife and three kids live in the same modest house as before. Even though now he has the bestselling nonfiction hard cover book in American history. Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Just to remind you of our lineup tonight, John King hosts "The Next President Campaign Kickoff," that's tonight at 7:00 eastern. They'll be looking at how religion has shaped the candidates' faith, their views and their campaigns. And then 8 o'clock, John McCain and Barack Obama answer questions separately at Rick Warren's "Forum on Faith."

And then there's more, after the forum join John King, he will be back with "The Next President Off & Running," that's tonight 10 o'clock eastern. Pretty busy night both for us and for you here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: As a little Iraqi boy's tumor was growing, his family's options were shrinking. Just when they feared he had no chance at life, some long-distance help arrived. Here now is CNN's Arwa Damon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two year old Saffa is about to undergo surgery he may not survive. Frankly, we are afraid, his father says. It's a major operation, and his tumor is a big one. Doctors at the King Hussein Cancer Center in Jordan had never seen anything like it.

DR. IYAD SULTAN, KING HUSSEIN CANCER CENTER: We don't know what will happen when we open Saffa's abdomen and get this tumor out. Saffa has a chance of survival. So today particularly the day in Saffa's life.

DAMON: His parents give their child what they fear could be a final good-bye. We first met Saffa and his family in Baghdad. His tumor was among the most treatable in children. But despite a year of chemotherapy, it kept growing. Doctors in Iraq said there was nothing more that they could do. Iraq's decrepit medical institutions and immigration of field medical professionals means that many curable diseases end in death. Saffa's story came to the attention of the Ray Ti Medical Foundation in Boston. It offered to help, whether to provide money for treatment or just to help little Saffa to die in peace. So Saffa and his family made the journey to Jordan for what would literally be life or death surgery.

Saffa's tumor weighs almost as much as his tiny frail body, about five kilograms or 12 pounds. As doctors began the operation, his parents waited, praying for a miracle but fearing the worst. The surgery lasted five hours and it was a success. His mother can barely express her happiness. Saffa still has a lengthy recovery ahead of him, but his parents know he is lucky just to have the chance of life. They will always be grateful that the kindness of strangers gave their son, an opportunity denied so many other Iraqi children. Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: We know you were moved by that story. To find out more about this little boy's story or how you can help kids get medical treatment just like that, check out our impact your world page, cnn.com/impact.

Coming up next, "This Week in Politics" with Tom Foreman.