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Tropical Storm Fay Threatens Florida; Faith and Politics; Veepstakes Near Conclusion

Aired August 18, 2008 - 22:00   ET


CAMPBELL BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to start tonight, everybody, with some breaking news the folks in Florida know firsthand. They are getting ready for Fay, that is, if they're not already dealing with her, a tropical storm now, just shy of hurricane strength.
Fay crossed the Florida Keys this afternoon, sending about 25,000 tourists packing. Heavy rains, flooding, no fatalities here, but Fay is blamed for more than a dozen in the Caribbean. The eye is over the Gulf now, slightly to the southwest of Naples, Florida, and Marco Island, you can see there on the radar, and where we -- that's also where we find 360's Gary Tuchman.

Gary, tell us what it looks like at this hour.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Campbell, after many years of covering hurricanes and tropical storms, I can tell you, when the weather starts to deteriorate rapidly like it is right now, in the dark, it is very foreboding. That's the situation here in Marco Island.

Marco Island is connected by a bridge to Naples, Florida, which is right across the Intracoastal -- the Intracoastal Waterway is right behind me right now. We're about 100 miles north as the crow flies north of Key West. And this is where Fay is arriving right now. The worst of Fay is expected to be here in the next four to five hours.

It looks like at this point that it won't get higher than 70 miles per hour. Seventy-four miles per hour constitutes a hurricane. Either way, there is great fear here for massive flooding. And the reason is this, the elevation here, exactly sea level. And for the last two-and-a-half-hours the rain has been coming down pretty hard.

We're already seeing water start to pile up on the streets. A curfew is in effect in one hour at 11:00 Eastern time, 11:00 to 6:00. No one is supposed to be out on the roads. But we should mention, there is no mandatory evacuation order. It's a voluntary request right now.

And because this isn't a powerful hurricane -- and this area has gotten powerful hurricanes -- this has been a tough decade in southwestern Florida. In 2005, you had Hurricane Wilma, a huge here, brush by here, in 2004, Hurricane Charley, a deadly hurricane, that hit directly just north of here. In 2006, they had a tropical storm, Ernesto, that hit here. So, people are very used to it. But they know this is not going to be a powerful hurricane. And, therefore, it appears at this point that a lot of people have stayed here on Marco Island, 12,000 year- round residents. It's a very upscale barrier island, hotels, restaurants, stores, houses.

Most people seem to have stayed. But police are being very strict. There is a curfew. And they are going to enforce it if anyone comes out on the street. So, everyone is waiting to see what happens. The worst damage here is going to happen in the dark. When they wake up in the morning, they will see what happened -- Campbell, back to you.

BROWN: All right, a long night ahead for all those folks.

Gary Tuchman for us reporting from the scene tonight -- Gary, thanks very much.

Hurricane or not, estimates are, Fay could do up to a billion dollars in damage in the U.S. when all is said and done.

For more on where, when and how bad, let's turn now to CNN's Chad Myers. He's in the Weather Center for us.

Chad, and I know you were telling me earlier this is a tough storm to predict...


BROWN: ... in terms of where it's headed. What do we know at this hour?

MYERS: It has been.

Five days ago, this was going to be a Category 3 hurricane hitting the east coast of Florida. Now it's barely a hurricane at all -- or will be -- and it's going to hit the west coast of Florida, around Cuba altogether. Because it hit Puerto Rico, it hit the Dominican Republic, Haiti and Cuba, that kind of took the stuffing out of the storm.

If it didn't, if this storm wouldn't have hit those islands, this could easily be a major hurricane hitting the coastal Southeast U.S. somewhere, either in the Gulf or in the Atlantic hurricane season here across the Eastern Atlantic.

One thing this storm is going to do tonight, it's going to produce tornadoes. We just got a brand-new tornado warning for -- this is for south central Broward County. That's not that far from, like, Miami-Dade, Broward County, just the next county up. Now, that is for Miramar and Pembroke Pines. The storm is moving to the northwest at about 30 miles per hour.

And this is going to be the story for tonight. Do you see that red box that just popped up? That's a tornado watch box. That will go all night long. Because the storms coming onshore -- they are coming onshore as little waterspouts, but they could contain tornadoes as well.

There's the spin of the storm. Marco -- see that word Marco? That's where our Gary Tuchman just was. The eye wall, what is developing to be an eye now, I think, we're finally getting it where that arrow is, that eye wall getting up into east Naples and Marco in the next few hours.

The storm will then turn to the right. It will go across the entire state of Florida, making drenching rainfall, some spots over 15 inches of rain, getting very close to Orlando, right over Kissimmee right there, and then off the east coast.

This is just one model. One of those models that four days ago was so very wrong. This could be wrong again. It could go to the left. It could go to Tampa. It could go to the right. It could brush north Miami-Dade for the next few hours, and then off to the east coast.

We do think it is going to stall somewhere up into Georgia or northern Florida and produce flooding rainfall. Now, in places that have been so dry, that's good news -- in other places, not-so-good news -- Campbell.

BROWN: All right, Chad Myers for us.

We're going to keep following the storm all night, we should say.

And one other quick note on the weather phenomenon, you do see an awful lot of people doing really stupid things in a storm. And, this time, it happened on the beach in Fort Lauderdale to a kiteboarder.

Take a look at this. Yes, he couldn't just let go. He was strapped in, apparently. We don't know who he was. We do know that he did survive. He is in the hospital, condition unknown at this hour.

You can see that video, God, awful to watch. But, again, he is in the hospital. He did survive that pretty tough crash there.

We're going to have more breaking news.

Politics now, and growing signs that Barack Obama has all but decided on a running mate, that he did it while he was on vacation in Hawaii, and that the decision may come as early as Wednesday. This is all according to a new report in "The New York Times," "The Times" reporting, the front-runners are Virginia Governor Tim Kaine, Indiana Senator Evan Bayh, and Senator Joe Biden of Delaware.

The "Raw Politics" now from CNN's Candy Crowley.


CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barack Obama is within days of announcing his vice presidential choice. It will begin with a text message to supporters. And sources say it will be followed by a series of events designed to roll into next week's convention with maximum excitement.

Who he has picked is another matter.


CROWLEY: During veep week, a campaign stop is about less what is said than where it is. In veep week, geography and choreography are clues.

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: The next president of the United States!


CROWLEY: Obama would love to put New Mexico in the Democratic column this fall. And Bill Richardson, the governor, standing there with Obama, might be able to deliver it.

As it happens, Richardson also appeared on television over the weekend on behalf of Obama. During veep season, Sunday talk shows are widely viewed as tryouts, so, along with Richardson last Sunday, Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana and Virginia Governor Tim Kaine.

Just a couple of weeks ago, Bayh was all the talk when he campaigned with Obama. But, later this week, Obama is scheduled to campaign in Virginia.

And much has been made of a counterclue as well. Joe Biden, currently gaining currency in the veepstakes, has been uncharacteristically quiet.

Republican and campaign sources close to John McCain say there are plans in the works for McCain to have a big blowout of his own, naming his V.P. pick a week from Friday, the day after the Democratic Convention. Sources envision a series of events starting in Ohio. However, they caution, those plans are not in cement now, and they could change.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I'm pleased to be here today at Cocoa Beach.

CROWLEY: McCain was talking to veterans in Florida, a state with 27 electoral votes, where the governor is Republican Charlie Crist.

Other clues, talking the talk last Sunday, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney.

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: I have got nothing for you on the V.P. sweepstakes. Anything in that regard ought to be directed to the McCain campaign.

CROWLEY: Also on the Sunday roster for McCain, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, former Pennsylvania Governor Tom Ridge, and the frequently mentioned Minnesota governor, Tim Pawlenty. GOV. TIM PAWLENTY (R), MINNESOTA: I don't talk about the vice presidential stuff, because I think it's mostly speculation. And I just have stopped talking about it.

CROWLEY: He may be the only one.


CROWLEY: And, despite all those names out there -- and, repeatedly, we have heard the same names, Campbell -- I am told not to be surprised if we are surprised. So, that's what we know.

BROWN: All right, Candy, a lot more to come on this tonight. We will be talking to you again.

The discussion under way, also, on our blog. You can weigh in at, where you will also find Erica Hill doing our live online 360 commercial-cast. That's her with Anderson on Friday. We can't show you tonight's commercial-cast because, well, we're not in the commercial yet. But we will be.

Then, Obama and McCain and the last-minute maneuvering going on right now before their conventions. We're digging deeper with Candy Crowley and David Gergen.

Later tonight, flooding where they barely see water leads to a daring rescue. You're going to see that happen in the Grand Canyon -- ahead on 360.


BROWN: Barack Obama campaigning today in Albuquerque, fresh from a week in Hawaii, where "The New York Times" is reporting he all but settled on a running mate.

As for the other side, has a piece up saying John McCain will name his choice on the 29th, his birthday, at a big rally in Ohio. We will see about that.

Digging deeper for us tonight, CNN's Candy Crowley and CNN senior political analyst David Gergen, both joining me now.

And, Candy, you reported a few minutes ago a V.P. announcement expected from Obama later this week. How important is timing in all of this?

CROWLEY: Well, timing is all in politics, as well as in life.

Listen, they want to roll into this convention. They want a big buildup, so they can dominate the news cycle from the time they announce this vice presidential candidate all the way through next week, mostly in a positive light.

You get that first V.P. pick, and, for the first couple of days, it is positive kind of press that you tend to get. So, they are timing this just to maximize all that time, because they know, after a week from Thursday, that it then moves over to the Republicans. So, they are trying to get a good seven, eight, nine, 10 days out of this.

BROWN: And, David, to that point, if Obama announces his V.P. before the convention, can McCain then steal his thunder by picking his time perfectly, announcing a V.P. at the very start of the Republican Convention? How does he play it?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the idea of doing it on his birthday, which -- and doing it in Ohio, is smart. A, Ohio is this hugely important swing state. And the polls suggest that John McCain, who was a little behind there, with his recent surge, has now moved slightly ahead. And doing it on his birthday takes the story away from the 72-year-old birthday to the new vigor that's brought by a vice presidential candidate.

So, I think that's a pretty smart move. I think the one thing that is sort of etiquette in politics is, you don't do your vice presidential candidate in a way that competes with the other guy's convention. You don't do it in a way that sort of rains on his parade.

BROWN: A fair point there.

Candy, any closer to knowing who Obama is going to choose? I know, in your piece, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson's name came up.

CROWLEY: Yes, I think he's an outlier. I think it is the people that we have been talking about all along. Every signal from inside the campaign, outside the campaign, says Bayh, Biden or Kaine.

I think we have talked about Kaine previously. And, for a while, you know, Bayh was up there, and he was sort of the flavor of the week. Now it seems to be more Biden. There was a time when Kaine was the man. So, very difficult to tell between the three of those, but, certainly, those three people have been the most talked about, and seem to be, from those who, as -- as somebody said to me, almost know...


CROWLEY: ... that is it around those three.

BROWN: And, David, McCain, you know, in terms of the bigger picture, was credited by some for his very strong response -- response to the situation in Georgia, especially last week. Could this put new pressure on Obama to pick somebody with a strong foreign policy background?

GERGEN: Absolutely.

And the -- the resignation of President Musharraf today in Pakistan puts even more pressure on to find someone who can help to balance the -- right now the long lead that John McCain has on who would be -- who would be the better commander in chief.

And I think these recent international events have probably -- have strengthened the case for Senator Biden, who just -- after all, just came back from Georgia. It was an interesting trip, as Candy reported.

But it also, I think, raises a question here, Campbell. And I would be interested in Candy's view on this. It seems to me there's real premium now for -- for Senator Obama to come up with someone who brings some excitement to this ticket and overcomes the whole Hillary question and everything else.

If Hillary is out of the picture, as I think -- and I think wrongly -- is, then I think that it's either probably Biden. Or I wonder if he doesn't need to go to someone who is not out there on the list. You know, some people are speculating on Al Gore. Now, that would inject a huge amount of excitement...


GERGEN: ... into this. I don't think it will happen. I don't think Al Gore will do it.

But, if he could find a surprise, I think that would help him at this point.

I'm curious about Candy's review -- view of that.

CROWLEY: I -- listen, I mean, you know, I love David, and I think he's so smart. But I -- I think that the Obama ticket knows that the excitement is at the top, that they don't need any more juice at this point.

Look, he's going to have that speech before 75,000 people on Thursday. I think they think just the choice itself is excitement enough. And, then, you know, after the convention, David, as you know, those vice presidents tend to go off into rural America and -- with -- you know, a handful of talking points and never be heard from again.

BROWN: Well...


GERGEN: Well, they need to go to -- let me just give the counter to that.

I think, if the Obama campaign is complacent, and thinks it has a pretty good lock on this election, then they may go with somebody very safe. My sense is, the dynamics of this election are changing, have changed rapidly in the last two or three weeks, in McCain's direction. And, for the first time, he has got a -- he has got a real chance of winning this thing.

It seems to me that would prompt a campaign to go back and look at, what do we need to do to put some real bang back into this campaign? I think someone with foreign policy experience would help a lot, and maybe a surprise choice would help a lot, too.

BROWN: All right.

CROWLEY: Well, I vote for David's scenario, because I would like something really exciting, actually.


BROWN: As every reporter would.

Candy Crowley and David Gergen for us tonight, thanks, guys. Appreciate it.

Still ahead: faith and politics -- an influential pastor and his megachurch, they were front and center on the trail this weekend. Rick Warren asked the questions his church members care most about. Well, coming up, how the candidates answered -- Barack Obama and John McCain in their own words.

Also ahead, on the trail with Meghan McCain. She's blogging every step of the way, but is her candid talk from behind the scenes actually helping her dad win votes? We're going to give you an up- close look -- when 360 continues.


BROWN: In Southern California, John McCain and Barack Obama shared a stage, a handshake, even a quick hug at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church.

Saturday's event was billed as a faith forum. And the questions reflected the slogan. In back-to-back hour-long interviews, Warren asked both candidates about abortion, about gay marriage, and much more in front of nearly 3,000 members of the evangelical church.

As part of our commitment to bringing you unfiltered sound from the campaign trail, so you can make up your own minds, here are McCain and Obama in their own words at Saddleback Church.



PASTOR RICK WARREN, AUTHOR, "THE PURPOSE DRIVEN LIFE": What point is a baby entitled to human rights?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: At the moment of conception.


MCCAIN: I have a 25-year pro-life record in the Congress, in the Senate. And as president of the United States, I will be a pro-life president. And this presidency will have pro-life policies. That's my commitment.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) MCCAIN: That's my commitment to you.

OBAMA: I am pro-choice. I believe in Roe v. Wade, and I come to that conclusion not because I'm pro-abortion, but because, ultimately, I don't think women make these decisions casually. I think they -- they wrestle with these things in profound ways, in consultation with their pastors or their spouses or their doctors or their family members. And so, for me, the goal right now should be -- and this is where I think we can find common ground.

And, by the way, I have now inserted this into the Democratic party platform, is how do we reduce the number of abortions? The fact is that although we have had a president who is opposed to abortion over the last eight years, abortions have not gone down.

WARREN: What's been your greatest moral failure, and what has been the great -- what do you think is the greatest moral failure of America?

MCCAIN: They don't get any easier.


WARREN: No, they don't get any easier.


MCCAIN: My greatest moral failing -- and I have been a very imperfect person -- is the failure of my first marriage. It's my greatest moral failure.

I think America's greatest moral failure has been. Throughout our existence, perhaps we have not devoted ourselves to causes greater than our self-interests, although we've been at the best at it of everybody in the world.

I think after 9/11, my friends, instead of telling people to go shopping or take a trip, we should have told Americans to join the Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, the military, expand our volunteers, expand what you're doing...


MCCAIN: ... expand what you're doing.

A little pandering here. The first words of your very successful book is "This is not about you." You know what that also means? Serve a cause greater than your self-interests.


OBAMA: I had a difficult youth. My father wasn't in the house. I have written about this. You know, there were times where I experimented with drugs. I drank in my teenage years. And what I traced this to is a certain selfishness on my part. I was so obsessed with me and, you know, the reasons that I might be dissatisfied that I couldn't focus on other people. And I think the process for me of growing up was to recognize that it's not about me.


BROWN: More now on faith and politics.

Saturday's forum was a chance for McCain and Obama to reach conservative Christian voters. Tonight, we're pulling out the scorecards.

And joining me now, Tony Campolo, founder of the Evangelical Association for Promotion of Education and professor emeritus at Eastern University. I hope I got all that right.


BROWN: Also, Tony Perkins here with me, president of the Family Research Council and author of "Personal Faith, Public Policy," joining me in the studio.

And, Tony, let me ask you just generally to start us off. What did you think about McCain's performance? In the past, I know you have expressed some skepticism about his ability to connect with evangelicals.

TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: I think he did a -- an outstanding job Saturday night. There -- it was the closest look we have had at contrast thus far in this presidential election between the two candidates.

I think he -- he was very concise, very direct in answering the questions. I think he gained a lot of ground in Saturday night's forum. And now it's up to him to sustain that gain that he's made by -- by moving forward and enunciating how these views are going to play out in his administration.

BROWN: Tony Campolo, what about Obama? He spoke openly of his religious faith. Some say he was vague, though, on some issues crucial to many social conservatives.

TONY CAMPOLO, FOUNDER, EVANGELICAL ASSOCIATION FOR THE PROMOTION OF EDUCATION: First of all, I think he did a good job in defining what it means to be a Christian.

It's not enough just to say, I'm saved and I'm forgiven. I think he spelled out that being a Christian is having a personal, transforming relationship with Jesus. That's important. And evangelical Christians were looking for a statement like that.

About the vagueness, I think that he could have done better on abortion. He could have said that 70 percent of all abortions are economically driven, and spelled out that, in his platform, he called for maternity leave for medical care, for post and prenatal care, for a lot of things that would keep women from having abortions when they really didn't want to have abortions and were doing so for economic reasons. He could have not only said, I am for reducing abortions, but he could have spelled out what the platform does say, the specific ways in which he would reduce abortion. He could have been more specific on that issue.

BROWN: But he didn't -- he was asked point-blank -- I think the question, just to make sure I have it right, is, at what point is a baby entitled to human rights?

And McCain said, at conception. And Obama was extremely vague in his answer.


PERKINS: He said, it's above my pay grade. And that should make people question whether or not he's ready for prime time, to be president.

But he was specific on some things. As he talked about, the party platform, which he made reference to, that he encouraged to be changed also calls for taxpayer-funded abortion. We have not paid for abortions in this country domestically since 1977. And, if you want more of something, you make it free.

And that's what he's calling for, are free abortions. So, he's not only not moving toward a pro-life or respect-life position; he's moving radically in the other way, which is consistent with where he's been in the past on issues like the unborn or the -- the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

BROWN: Tony Campolo, what do you think?

CAMPOLO: Well, I think he needs to do better on that issue. I'm going to agree with Tony Perkins on that. I would go a step...

BROWN: but is there any point, really? I mean, he's a pro- choice candidate. On that issue, are evangelicals pretty much decided?

CAMPOLO: Well, not necessarily.

Just the other day, Clarence -- rather, Richard Land of The Southern Baptist Convention pointed out that 71 percent of evangelicals are going to vote for McCain, according to "TIME" magazine statistics. Well, that's a big change. Eighty-two percent of evangelicals voted for George Bush.

There seems to be a shift. And that's because Obama is addressing other issues that younger evangelicals are concerned about: poverty, the AIDS crisis, particularly the environment, the war. These are issues that young evangelicals resonate to. And they are moving in his direction for these reasons.

BROWN: Do -- what do you think? Is there...

PERKINS: Well, Pew Research actually shows that young evangelicals are stronger on the life issue than their parents.

But I -- I would think the -- the percentage issue is -- you kind of get lost in that. Intensity is the issue. I will say that Barack Obama has more intensity on his side of the political spectrum than John McCain has. He made grounds on Saturday night with the evangelicals, but he could lose all of it if he chooses a pro-abortion running mate.

And, in fact, word on the street even tonight is that he is now again seriously considering a pro-abortion running mate, which could totally blow any gains that he made on Saturday night.

BROWN: All right, guys, we have to end it there.

To both Tonys, to Tony Perkins and Tony Campolo, thank you very much. Appreciate your time tonight, guys.

More faith and politics coming up in the next hour -- we are going to play extended segments from the faith forum for you.

And tourists taking in the Grand Canyon got more than they bargained for, heavy rains, a breached dam, and helicopter rescues. We're going to have the details ahead.

Plus, a lost whale calf looking for its mother settles on an unlikely surrogate.

This is 360.


BROWN: Get ready to see an amazing helicopter rescue from the Grand Canyon. That's coming up shortly. But first, Erica Hill joins us with a "360 Bulletin" -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Campbell, they say they are pulling out, but it looks like Russian forces in Georgia are doing just the opposite. Footage today shows Russian armor smashing through police cars from Gori to another town, even closer to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. An American defense official says Russians are moving missiles into South Ossetia.

Three Eastern Pennsylvania teenagers will stand trial for the fatal beating of a Mexican immigrant. A judge ruled they can be tried as adults. All three are facing hate crime charges. Two are accused of third-degree murder in the death of Luis Ramirez.

And a little confused but very sweet. This little whale thinks the yacht that you see here is actually his mother. Spotted just off the south coast of -- of the coast of -- rather north of Sidney, Australia, a sailboat. But the sad part here, Campbell, is that rescuers say if this whale does not find its real mother, it could actually starve. Poor guy.

BROWN: That's awful. We have to find its mother.

HILL: All right. Let's go to Australia.

BROWN: Erica, thanks very much.

Now time to show you our "Beat 360" photo. Tonight's picture, Barack Obama, John McCain and Pastor Rick Warren at his California church for the faith forum this past weekend that we've been telling you all about.

Here's the caption from our staff winner, Sean: "Tip your waitress and try the veal. We'll all be here next week. Thank you."

We'll be here all week.

HILL: Sean's also producing tonight. Do you think it's fixed, the win?

BROWN: You are such a cynic. Sean, take it up with her later.

Think you can do better? Go to our Web site, Click on the "Beat 360" link and send us your entry. We'll announce the winner at the end of the program, and as always, the winner gets a "Beat 360" T-shirt.

Coming up next on "360," some serious news. New White House worries: Pakistan's president steps down. With an ally gone, will al Qaeda take over?

And later, up close with Meghan McCain: blogging with the candidate's daughter and learning a lot about both of them.


BROWN: Tonight, a trusted ally in the war on terror is gone. In his place, a nuclear-armed nation some fear may be falling deeper into chaos.

Threatened with impeachment, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf resigned today. To the White House, the former military man was a close partner against al Qaeda and the enemy. But to his people, Musharraf was corrupt.

With Musharraf stepping down, the threat is that extremists will take control of Pakistan, creating a dangerous new threat for the U.S.

Lots to talk -- lots to talk about tonight, and joining us now for tonight's "360 Dispatch" is CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen.

And Peter, Secretary Rice today lauded Musharraf as one of the world's most committed partners in the war against terrorism. There had been plenty of complaints about him too we should mention, but what does his resignation ultimately mean for the war on terror, for the hunt for Osama bin Laden?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, Campbell, I think that Musharraf's resignation, I don't think, really changes things too materially in Pakistan. Pakistan, the economy there is in free fall. There's a great deal of political uncertainty because of the two competing political parties at the top.

Musharraf's resignation, I think, was fairly predictable, because the political parties have long disliked him. And unfortunately, I think that his resignation will simply -- will just find that Pakistan will sort of bumble along as before, which is, you know, chaotic, not particularly efficient, the war on terrorism prosecuted occasionally and then not. The military's involvement, the ISI, the military intelligence agency involvement with the Taliban. It's certainly something the United States has been concerned about for some period of time, and that may not end, Campbell.

BROWN: Well, Pakistan, fairly or unfairly, is considered a strong U.S. ally. Do you think that changes with Musharraf's resignation?

BERGEN: You know, Pakistan has always been a kind of ambiguous ally, really, to be honest. I mean, and sadly, Pakistan has lost a lot of soldiers in the war against the Taliban. It's also arrested or captured a number of the top leaders of al Qaeda.

Yet on the other hand it's also, according to the U.S. government, being supportive of the Taliban, particularly in Afghanistan, but also inside Pakistan. So it's a very mixed picture, and you know, Pakistan is one of those countries where the more you know about it, the less you know about it.

The politicians involved have a hard time dealing with the military. The military is still -- you almost have two governments there, Campbell, with the military pursuing its own agenda and the civilian government really not being in control.

And the civilian government about two weeks ago tried to reign in the ISI, the military intelligence agency, putting it under civilian control and then, very embarrassingly, had to, several hours after that announcement, sort of say, "Well, sorry, that was a miscommunication."

So I think we'll go forward. We'll see that Pakistan remains something of an ally but also something of a source of terrorism, both domestically but also in Afghanistan and potentially for other countries around the world, including the United States.

BROWN: Peter -- Peter, I mean, what you're describing sounds to be like a pretty unstable situation there. Do you -- how do you see it shaking out, really, over the next few weeks?

BERGEN: Well, you know, as you mentioned, you know, Pakistan is a nuclear power, but I think the nuclear weapons are fairly well secured by the Pakistani military. You know, how it plays out over the next several weeks, I think the Pakistani politicians will -- will jostle for position. Benazir Bhutto's widow, Asif Zardari, is trying to become president. The other leading politician, Nawaz Sharif, doesn't want that to happen.

So we'll see a fair amount of jockeying for power between these two factions and maybe no immediate resolution.

BROWN: All right. Peter Bergen for us tonight with those details. Peter, thanks very much. Appreciate it.

Just ahead tonight, a freak flash flood traps tourists in the Grand Canyon. Helicopters plucked many from the danger, but 11 still missing. Details ahead.

And the Massachusetts district attorney called it the longest con he has seen in his career. Now the FBI has fingerprint proof of the fraud. We're going to tell you about it ahead on 360.


BROWN: Help from above to save those trapped below. You're looking at a helicopter rescue operation in the Grand Canyon. Heavy rains breached a dam over the weekend, sending flood waters surging through the national park. Nearly 300 people have been evacuated, but others remain unaccounted for. And that has emergency crews intensifying their search.

We get the latest now from Kara Finnstrom.


KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A racing river of mud hurling down trees and debris. Helicopters plucking stranded tourists off cliffs. They are the first sweeping media images of Arizona's dam break.

MATT MATTEI, FLOOD SURVIVOR: Everybody is walking around all muddy with all their gear.

FINNSTROM: Now the first private photographs are coming out with the survivors. Matt Mattei and his camping buddies documented their own unfathomable survival story.

MATTEI: I woke up, and it was a water bed underneath of me all of a sudden. And so I was grabbing for my bags and grabbing for my sandals, and my sandals were already gone down the river.

FINNSTROM: Mattei was able to grab his camera, clicking during the first ten terrifying minutes as water rose to his knees and his friends abandoned their tents.

NICOLE GIBSON, FLOOD SURVIVOR: When I saw how rapidly it was coming and everybody was getting their things out, that's when I started to realize the severity of the situation.

MATTEI: We were just shocked at how loud the rushing waters were, and we heard trees breaking.

FINNSTROM: Clicking as all 15 scrambled up the side of the cliff and the water kept rising to what they believe was 10, 12, possibly 15 feet. MATTEI: Because if another rush came through, we could even try to kind of climb the wall even more, which would have been really dangerous.

EMMA ZIMMERMAN, FLOOD SURVIVOR: Yes, the water was powerful, and you knew that if you would get caught in that water, it was, you know, a small chance of survival.

FINNSTROM: Mattei and his friends were trapped, with rushing water all around them.

MATTEI: The tribe had a black helicopter, and we saw them fly by with a basket. I think they got some people who were hanging in trees.

FINNSTROM: They watched the rising water until their rescuers came, clicking the final frames of a nine-hour-long survival saga.

MATTEI: We're not even scratched here right now. We've got everybody here, everybody is alive.


BROWN: And Kara, are rescue operations finished for the evening?

FINNSTROM: Sheriff officials tell us that at this point, there are 11 people unaccounted for. But they also say that they believe everyone who wanted to be flown out of that flooded area has been. They performed a total of 270 evacuations with no deaths or serious injuries reported at this point, Campbell.

BROWN: All right. Kara Finnstrom for us tonight. Kara, thanks.

Coming up, don't rock the plane and don't touch the power lines. How an electrifying situation ended. It is our "Shot of the Day."

And at the top of the hour, a live update on Tropical Storm Fay, now taking aim at mainland Florida, when 360 continues.


BROWN: Still to come, the "Shot of the Day." Here is a situation you never want to face in flight. Yikes! How the two people onboard were rescued, coming up. But first Erica Hill joins us once again with a "360 Bulletin."

HILL: Well, the FBI says fingerprints and immigration records confirm the kidnapping suspect who made headlines as Clark Rockefeller is, in fact, Christian Gerhartsreiter of Germany. He is accused of kidnapping his 7-year-old daughter last month in Boston. Authorities now want to question him about the disappearance of a California couple, as well.

The state of Rhode Island and the town of West Warwick have agreed to each pay $10 million to the survivors and relatives of those killed in the 2003 Station nightclub fire. One hundred people died in that blaze, more than 200 were injured.

And stocks tumbling on Wall Street today over new banking worries. The Dow sank 180 points to close at 11,479. The NASDAQ and S&P each posted double-digit losses, Campbell.

BROWN: Erica, now we've got our "Beat 360" winners. Our daily challenge to viewers, the chance to show up our staffers by coming up with a better caption for a picture we post in our blog every day.

Well, tonight's picture, Barack Obama, John McCain and Pastor Rick Warren in his California church for the faith forum this past weekend. Here's the caption from our staff winner, Sean: "Tip your waitress and try the veal. We'll be here all week. Thank you."


HILL: Fantastically funny and very clever, Sean.

BROWN: Are you being sarcastic?

HILL: no.

BROWN: Our viewer winners are Kimmy and Dover of Dillsburg, Pennsylvania. They envision Pastor Warren saying, "This went so well, next week I'm having Trump and Rosie on."

HILL: Now that I would like to see.

BROWN: Very good. Kimmy and Dover, a T-shirt on the way. One T-shirt. Sorry. It's not my show. I don't make these decisions.

HILL: I hope they like each other.

BROWN: I know. You can wear it every other day.

You can check out the entries we received on our blog and play along tomorrow by going to

"The Shot" is next. A plane caught in power lines and the amazing rescue that saved the people inside.

And at the top of the hour, landfall. Fay slams into the Florida Keys. and it's not done with the state. We're going to have the latest coming up.


BROWN: John McCain did not vote for John Kerry, but his daughter did, and that's not the only surprise Meghan McCain is dishing up on her blog. Her blog offers up her personal experience from the campaign trail. It's candid, it's close up, but is it courting younger Americans to support her dad? Well, you be the judge.

Once again, here's 360's Gary Tuchman with an up-close look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As John McCain marches down the steps of his campaign plane in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, our eyes are peeled for someone else: a young woman who walks off about a minute later, a 23-year-old named Meghan McCain.

MEGHAN MCCAIN, DAUGHTER OF JOHN MCCAIN: Welcome to a day in the life of me on my dad's 2008 presidential campaign.

TUCHMAN: Meghan is on the campaign trail with her father, but doing it in a very unique style.

M. MCCAIN: I believe that we can win this, and I believe that we will, because my dad is the best candidate. He has the most experience, and I genuinely believe that. It's hard sometimes, because I know I'm his daughter and that we share DNA.

TUCHMAN: She's created a Web site, called It does not discuss policies.

M. MCCAIN: I'm tired.

TUCHMAN: It's designed more for people who watch "American Idol" than watch one of her dad's campaign events. In other words, hip, younger voters.

M. MCCAIN: I think if there is one common denominator of all women, it's that they love road trips.

TUCHMAN: She travels around the country with her father, holding babies just like him. But mostly, she stays in the background.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My wonderful daughter Meghan is here somewhere in the audience, and she graduated with a degree in art history, which I'm very proud of. Where are you, Meghan? Hey, there she is.

TUCHMAN: The campaign bus had been driven into this York, Pennsylvania, hangar, and Meghan stays in the bus during the rally, where she does her blogging, in which she often reveals candid thoughts about her parents.

She defends her dad against accusations he's too old by showing pictures of her taking naps on the bus and claiming her father never does. She readily acknowledges she brings "People" magazine on the bus rather than newspapers.

Then there is her shoe fascination. She shows her shoes and also celebrities', like Henry Kissinger's. She says, "Who doesn't want to know what kind of shoes Dr. Kissinger wears?"

And then she makes this admission: she had always been a registered independent. As a matter of fact, she voted for John Kerry in 2004. But as a present to her father, she decided to become a Republican, adding "Happy Father's Day, Dad."

The campaign says nobody approves Meghan's copy, no matter how fluffy.

LARRY SABATO, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: There's always a great risk in doing things like this. But when you're an underdog, and McCain is at least a mild underdog, you do have to roll the dice, and I suppose this is a roll of the dice. It may pay off.

TUCHMAN: Meghan McCain's blog is candid, whimsical, and ambitious.

(on camera) At least for now, the free-wheeling openness is not being carried over to media not controlled by her or her father's campaign.

(voice-over) She would not do an interview, her staff saying she is publishing a book for children about her father next month, and she won't be talking until then. But a woman who knows her pretty well did talk about the blog: her mother.

CINDY MCCAIN, WIFE OF JOHN MCCAIN: It does a little of everything. And it's highly entertaining. And her father and I at first, we weren't sure, you know, because we, of course, were trying to protect her. And as it turned out, we both love the blog, and she's done such a marvelous job on it.

TUCHMAN: In the blog, Meghan says her mom is a huge fan of the rock group Cream and went to their reunion concert in London two years ago. You won't learn any stuff like that during her dad's stump speech.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, York, Pennsylvania.


BROWN: And time now for "The Shot." Here is a place you do not want to be: aboard a plane that is upside down and tangled in power lines.

HILL: I cannot imagine being in that plane.

BROWN: Three hundred eight-thousand volts of electricity up there. This happened in Germany, where the plane plowed into lines shortly after take-off. And I've got to say some extremely brave rescue workers.

HILL: Yes.

BROWN: Apparently, they used a cherry picker to reach the pilot and the passenger. Both plucked from the aircraft and are doing OK.

HILL: And that's just amazing, not only to get caught in those wires but to be rescued and to be OK through it all, thankfully.

BROWN: Terrifying. And just hanging there, waiting.

Well, you can see all the most recent "Shots" on our Web site, There you can also see other segments from the program, read the blog, check out the "Beat 360" picture. The address again,

Coming up at the top of the hour, John McCain and Barack Obama at Pastor Rick Warren's faith forum, answering some tough questions at length so you can get a better handle on where they stand.

Also, late live updates on Hurricane Fay from the weather center and Gary Tuchman, who is on the ground for us in Florida. All that and more next on 360.