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Nancy Grace
Bounty Hunter Arrives to Bail Out Missing Toddler`s Jailed Mother
Aired August 18, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for nine long weeks, last seen with her mother. Bombshell developments tonight. Casey Anthony set to walk out of jail within the next 48 hours. A California bounty hunter arrives in Orlando to post $50,000 to bond out Caylee`s mom. He says 3-year-old Caylee is still alive and believes he can get mom, Casey, to talk. Tonight, he`s also with us live.
Also, mom, Casey, shuts down two more jailhouse visits with her family, first with her brother, Lee, then her own dad. Why is that? All the while, the family, the Anthony family say they have received three new credible sightings of little Caylee.
Also tonight, an independent search team scours a heavily wooded area, finding clothing and other items. Now, that`s close to where mom, Casey, abandoned her car. That evidence now in the hands of police. But are these items connected to Caylee`s disappearance? Tonight, where is Caylee Anthony?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla plans to free Casey Anthony from jail. He`s convinced he can get the 22-year-old to tell him where she left little Caylee.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: And I don`t think anybody is going to get anywhere with her while she is in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Casey continues to tell them lies. Padilla thinks she needs a friend.
PADILLA: If you`ve been in jail for 30 days and somebody comes and gets you out, you`re going to say, That`s my friend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he succeeds in freeing Casey, she`ll be required to wear a ankle monitoring device. Padilla`s team will also monitor her 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, to make sure they`re not stuck paying the half a million dollar bail. Padilla met the Anthonys for the first time at their weekly prayer vigil. He says Caylee is still alive and says his team will find her in one week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Thanks so much for being with us. Where is that beautiful little girl that police are searching for, that little girl named Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone`s stepping in to try and bail out the mom of the missing 3-year-old, Caylee Anthony. And it`s reality TV bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. He and his nephew have flown to Florida. They`re going to put up Casey Anthony`s bond, fully $500,000, that is, to get her out of jail. She`s charged, again, with child neglect, lying to authorities, lying, stonewalling police. And her 3-year-old still missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have her in jail for a reason, because she lied over and over and over to authorities. She was out partying approximately five days after her daughter was missing. She didn`t report it, only her mom a month later. Now, this guy is coming in from California with a reality show -- so you know, we all know what his agenda is -- trying to get her out. He`s basically interfering with an investigation.
PADILLA: Do you all agree with this, that she`s the last person that had that baby in hand? OK. Do any of you have any doubt in your mind that if she killed the baby and buried it, that law enforcement will find the baby eventually? Is there a doubt in your mind about that? If that happened, she goes back to jail. I don`t believe that happened. I believe the baby is alive. I believe she passed it off to one of her friends. (INAUDIBLE) baby, I`ll be back in a couple of days. That person, for whatever reason, is down the road with the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This woman home free? Will we ever know what happened to her little girl?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Hello again. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. It`s the big mystery. Let`s go right to Mark Williams, news director, WNDB Newstalk 1150. Give us the latest.
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Pat, the latest is Casey Anthony still remains in the Orange County jail, in her 7-by-12 isolation cell. Of course, over the weekend, Leonard Padilla and his -- who`s a bounty hunter, and his nephew, a bail bondsman by the name of Tony Padilla, flew into Orlando from Sacramento. They want to spring Casey Anthony from jail. They say they have the wherewithal to do it.
As of late this afternoon, Allen Moore (ph), who`s a spokesman for the Orange County jail, says they have not heard from any third party trying to get Casey Anthony out of jail. That is the very latest. Also, Leonard Padilla...
LALAMA: OK. All right. Go ahead, very quickly.
WILLIAMS: OK. Leonard Padilla says if, in fact, he springs Casey Anthony out of jail, he will have an associate with her 24/7. She`s not going anyplace. He says that associate can pry some information out of her. And also, that Padilla plans to do his own investigation this week, hoping to come up with Caylee because he says she`s alive.
LALAMA: It`s no doubt an uncommon execution of release. I want to go to Nikki Pierce, reporter WDBO radio. It doesn`t look like, if this happens, it`s going to be really in the next few hours. I mean, she`s in that jail tonight for sure.
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: She`s in for tonight, that`s correct, Pat. They have to do a couple of different things before they release her. The clerk of courts has to be notified. There are three different holds that have to be cleared before she`s released. And one of them, which is all built around the electronic monitoring device that Mark Williams mentioned, is going to take a while.
LALAMA: OK. Well, guess what? Sitting right next to me is the aforementioned Leonard Padilla. I got to know you a little bit today. You`re quite the colorful character. I like to say he`s made more splash around here than Sea World. And you have -- Mr. Padilla, you actually said to me today -- I said, Where`s the bondsman, who is your...
PADILLA: I said a lot of things to you. Why are you picking on this?
LALAMA: Now, hold on. Now, hold on. You said tonight -- I said, Where is the bondsman? Why is he not here? And you said, Because I am the media whore. You said those words.
PADILLA: Yes, I did.
LALAMA: I`m going to come right out of the gate.
PADILLA: Absolutely.
LALAMA: There are a lot of people who think you have only self- interest here.
PADILLA: Well, the thing about it is, I can`t stop people from thinking those thoughts. My thinking is, the little girl is alive. She can be found. It`s a different theory we`re working on. And furthermore, there`s a $250,000 reward out there. What I`m saying is, Look, you`ve got the baby. For whatever reason, you didn`t return her. You`re panicky about law enforcement arresting you for kidnapping. Bring her in. You can have that reward. I`m only interested in Caylee being brought back home. That`s all.
LALAMA: Mr. Padilla, why could not a completely credible sufficient bondsman in the city of Orlando come forward? And why -- I`m from California, so you know, thanks for being here with me. But why did it take you and your nephew 3,000 miles and $50,000 of your own money to come here and execute the release of this woman?
PADILLA: How do you pronounce cojones?
(LAUGHTER)
LALAMA: I`m asking.
PADILLA: Or lack of.
LALAMA: You`re saying -- you`re insulting all the bondsmen and women of Orlando, Florida. Why do we need...
PADILLA: You want me to do it one at a time?
LALAMA: Just give me a statement. Why do we need...
PADILLA: They don`t have the wherewithal. The company that we deal with in Texas is allowed to post $500,000 bonds just about in any state in the country. Most of the bondsmen in this town write to companies that do not allow them to post a bond of this nature, of this amount, without $500,000 in security. If the people had $500,000 in security, they`d go to a bank and borrow the money and not have to pay the 10 percent to anybody.
LALAMA: You know what? Just because you are sitting here, we have more calls than normal, I`m sure. And let`s take one. Wendy in California. Hello, Wendy. What have you got for me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Pat. Something is really bugging me. I haven`t heard anyone discuss the fact that very early in the case, it was reported that there was a tip the baby Caylee was sighted at the Orlando airport. So I`m wondering where exactly that tip came from, where`s the origin? Did it come from within the Anthony family, because they knew eventually cell phone records would show momma Casey was near the vicinity of the airport?
LALAMA: Well, let`s ask news director Mark Williams. Do you know about that tip, Mark?
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, we`ve talked about that tip over the past couple of weeks, Pat. The deal is, there`s been...
LALAMA: Give me a quick answer on where do we stand with that tip.
WILLIAMS: Well, it`s not credible. There`s been no security tape brought forward. There was also -- and every time we walk into the Orlando airport, as you know, you`re videotaped with security cameras. Secondly, there was an unconfirmed sighting in the Georgia mountains, at a restaurant in White (ph) County, Georgia. That did not turn out to be credible, either. So there`s no videotape. There`s no nothing. They`re just not -- they`re unconfirmed.
LALAMA: Let me get back to the issue at hand, which is the presence of Mr. Padilla. I`m very curious. Joe Episcopo is a defense attorney here in Florida. What do you think about this guy coming into your turf? You got a problem with him being here doing this?
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that -- I don`t have any problem with any bondsman coming in here and bonding someone out. It`s a question of who`s putting the $50,000 up, and is it really being put up or is it being given back? I suppose there may be some issue there. But no, I don`t have any problem with any bondsman coming from anywhere to help bond somebody out, especially if it was my client.
LALAMA: Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, weigh in there.
HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I got to tell you, I don`t think this woman should be out on bond. This fellow is only looking for publicity for himself, Pat, let`s be honest. He wants his face on TV. He`s got a new show coming up. He wants to promote it. This is great free advertising. He doesn`t have any...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: He admits that.
HUGHES: He doesn`t have any independent evidence that this child is alive, and he`s going to come in and post bond so his face can get out there. And Casey`s not going to cooperate with him because, let`s face it, she hasn`t told the truth so far. She`s not going to start now.
LALAMA: All right. You know, you bring up a very good point because here`s what I find interesting, Mr. Padilla. You`re essentially working with the defense. Now, your job as a bounty hunter is that you bring people in. You drag them in. I mean...
PADILLA: What, I quit being a citizen because I`m a bounty hunter, when I see something that cries out for help?
LALAMA: Why about -- what is it about this case that makes you...
PADILLA: No one wants to admit that she`s alive. Everybody wants...
LALAMA: Why are you...
(CROSSTALK)
LALAMA: Now, let me make this point. Here`s a woman who`s done nothing but, let`s just say it, lie, who becomes righteously indignant when anybody challenges her. What makes you think she`s going to go to you and go, Oh, Mr. Padilla, thank God you`re here, let me come forward with the truth?
PADILLA: Why shouldn`t she?
LALAMA: Well, why should she?
PADILLA: Because it`s happened thousands of times. I`ve chased skips for 33 years. They all lie. Their parents lie. Everybody lies, and eventually, we get somebody that gives us a grain of truth out of a thousand of lies and we follow that up and I -- you know?
LALAMA: All right, let`s go to Bill Majeski. He`s a former New York Police Department detective. I`m curious, your point of view from a police officer`s frame of mind. What do you think? I mean, do you think this guy is going to get magic out of her?
BILL MAJESKI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, going back to my law enforcement days, very infrequently would someone like Mr. Padilla come into a situation and help the situation. Clearly, he`s motivated by his own -- well, he has his own motivation for being here. But the reality is, I think there`s a greater probability of interference with the investigation by the law enforcement agency than there is anything else.
In terms of getting or extracting information from her -- listen, any time you want to get a lot of publicity, you want to get notoriety, you come out with an opinion that`s in direct contrast with the vast majority of opinions. I would like to hear just one bit of evidence or even one clue that leads him to believe that this little girl is still alive, and secondly, how he can go about then extracting this information from the mother to help him, you know, find where this child is.
PADILLA: That`s not -- law enforcement hasn`t charged her with a murder, attempted murder or any kind of a homicide. What more do you need?
LALAMA: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," is there a psychological component? I mean, Mr. Padilla obviously believes he`s got something up his sleeve, he`s got some trick, some ability to make this woman, who has basically been a punk in many ways in her attitude towards people -- I don`t know whether she hurt anybody or buried anybody or did anything. And let`s keep in mind, she is a person of interest in terms of anything more foul than a disappearance. So let`s keep that in mind.
We don`t know what she did. But she acts pretty darn-self righteous. What is it about Mr. Padilla that thinks he`s going to get something out of her nobody else has gotten?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I do hope he ends up being the criminal whisperer. But if she`s not bonded enough to her own child to tell the truth, how is she going to bond to a guy in a 10-gallon hat? I mean, let`s keep in mind why pathological liars lie. They lie even when there`s no long-term incentive. That is essentially a feature of the disorder. So whoever is going to get her to tell the truth is going to have to incentivize her.
I tell you what would incentivize her is maybe the promise of being with a boyfriend, the promise of an ideal life, somebody who can get her to talk and talk and talk, and as Padilla did point out, pull out, you know, a grin of truth in the midst of all the lies. But without any external incentive, she`s really not going to tell the truth.
LALAMA: Ronald Singer, forensic scientist. I know whether the bounty hunter can get her to talk is not up your alley, but I`d like your opinion anyway.
RONALD SINGER, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, I think that any time that you have differing people going at cross purposes to one another, even though the outcome or the end result -- the end goal may be the same -- I think that it opens the door for interference and it opens the door for losing evidence or losing investigative leads that might otherwise be brought out by a coordinated single effort by one agency.
And I`m less concerned with Mr. Padilla than I am with some of these other amateur groups that are going out searching for evidence.
LALAMA: Interesting. And we will get to that. That`s very important that you bring that up. But let me just finish up with this line of questioning.
Nikki Pierce, reporter for WDBO radio -- you know, Mr. Padilla, you indicated to me today that the family was sort of all behind this and willing to have 24/7 bodyguards and people at their house, but a spokesman for the family is saying nothing has really been etched in stone in that regard. Is that true?
PIERCE: Well, that`s entirely possible.
PADILLA: Yes, indeed...
LALAMA: Hold on. Hold on.
PIERCE: I have heard grumblings that the Anthony family has agreed to have one person from Padilla`s team inside the home 24/7.
LALAMA: OK.
PIERCE: They had previously indicated that they may want to put her in a safe house. But it does sound like they`d like to have her at home and have at least one member of the team inside, although I guess anything could change at this point because so many things are up in the air.
LALAMA: I just have a few seconds, Mr. Padilla, before we go to a break. But is she better off at home? Wouldn`t it be better, if everyone`s so concerned about her protection, that she go some place that we don`t know where to find her, where to bug her or anyone who claims they want to hurt her could hurt her?
PADILLA: It`s a toss-up. The media would find her, no matter where we have her. It wouldn`t matter. They would find where she was. Also, I think the court feels much more comfortable if she`s at home with the parents. I`m not saying that from a knowledgeable source. But I do know that the parents do want her home.
LALAMA: Joe, just very quickly. I`ve got 15 seconds. Yes or no. You, as a defense attorney, would you mind the bounty hunter being in the same geographical area with your client?
EPISCOPO: No, not at all. They`re trying to help. They`re here to help us, and I`d take all the help I could get.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PADILLA: (INAUDIBLE) I want to see the baby come home. And there`s - - you know, I`ve been asked the question, Well, there`s a $250,000 reward, is that what you`re doing it for? I`ve -- look, I`ve said this and I`m going to repeat it. Whoever`s got that baby, bring it in. I`m not a cop. I don`t have to give up any information to anybody as to who gave me the baby. And you can have the $250,000 reward. I don`t want a penny of it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Do you personally believe that you have had visions of where Caylee is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody has a vision and everybody has feelings about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody has a right to their own opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very easy to watch this play out day by day and form your own opinions (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d use any tool I could to find my missing children or grandchildren.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) it`s only as good as the people that have information in front of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. We`ve got lots of calls on this one, and we`re going to go right to Veronica from my home state of Ohio. Hey, Veronica.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Pat. Hey, my question is for Mark Williams. I wanted to know about the carseat, Caylee`s carseat. Has it ever been found? Was it in the abandoned vehicle? And did they ever check consignment shops in case she sold those, since she needed money?
LALAMA: All right. Well, let`s go to Mark. Mark, did you hear that question about the baby`s carseat?
WILLIAMS: Yes. Pat, as far as I know, there was no baby`s carseat that we know of, and it hasn`t turned up in any of the consignment shops in the area that police have reported. So we don`t know what happened to the carseat, even though Caylee`s picture was taken at one time in a carseat. That remains a mystery to us tonight.
LALAMA: OK. You know, all through the break, Joe Episcopo bugged me to death because he wants to argue about how high the bond is. So I`m going to give you a chance right now to go ahead and weigh in on that, Joe.
EPISCOPO: Well, normally, a bond on charges of this nature, a five- year offense and a one-year offense, probably carry about $3,500 total. So $500,000 is a bit excessive. Now, I know that this was originally set when she was a murder suspect, and I can see a high bond then. But since then, the charges have been filed, and I think the bond really needed to be set in relation to those charges.
The bonding process is not a punishment process. You don`t put somebody in jail on bond and hold them there because, We think they did it. That`s not what it`s all about. A bond is to ensure appearance in court and safety for the community.
LALAMA: OK. All right. So now, remember, she`s not a murder suspect at this point. Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, what`s your retort to Joe?
HUGHES: Well, Joe, what`s happening is she created the situation herself. She has lied over and over and over. You know, it`s the old joke, How do you know she`s lying? Because she`s opening her mouth. If she`s talking, she`s telling a lie to the cops. And that is why they are trying to keep her locked up right now. That`s why the bond is excessively high.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PADILLA: We have somebody watching the child. That person, for whatever reason, went, took the child with her. She`s afraid to tell the truth until her mother jacks her up and says, I want to know where my granddaughter is, I want to know what`s going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: Every focus that`s on Casey takes effort away from Caylee.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: I have no clue where my daughter is? Yes, that is the truth.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a moment that you`ve ever thought for a second that maybe Casey had a hand in Caylee`s disappearance?
CINDY ANTHONY: Why go through all of this? Why put us through all of that? Doesn`t make sense. She wouldn`t do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Let`s just clarify a couple of very important things. You know, Casey is, of course, a defendant in, you know, child neglect. But she is a person of interest in the disappearance of her daughter because of the lies, because of what police believe is decomposition, the smell of decomposition. OK, let`s get that straight.
Now, I want to go to Nikki Pierce, reporter, WDBO radio. This process of release is not immediate. It takes a while. Just tell us very quickly what happens next.
PIERCE: Well, very quickly, they would have to go to the clerk of courts, which would have to notify the jail. First of all, the jail would have to notify the Orange County sheriff`s office, which is the charging institution. They also would -- there`s a second hold that is secret, as far as we know. They won`t release what that is. And the third one is that they have to make sure that there`s a phone line, an appropriate phone line, to keep the electronic surveillance going in the home. It can`t have any voice-mail or call waiting or anything that would interrupt the data stream. Once that`s proven, then she can be released.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A bounty hunter says he`ll post bond for the mother of the toddler missing in central Florida.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s convinced he can get the 22-year-old to tell him where she left little Caylee. Investigators say Casey continues to tell them lies.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: What we don`t have is information on exactly where Caylee was last. The one person that has that information, Casey Anthony, is not providing information that`s accurate to us.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He thinks Caylee is still alive and says his team will find her in one week.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: I just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I just got to feel that there`s some humanity in that woman that would not allow her to kill that cute little girl.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. Thanks so much for being with us.
Back to Mr. Padilla very quickly. You told me earlier today you admitted you feel that Casey is withholding information, that there are things she`s not telling us.
PADILLA: Absolutely. She told the police that this Zenaida Fernandez -- Hernandez-Gonzalez was the babysitter and then she led them on some kind of a wild goose chase because she said, well, I told some other people trying to reinforce her story down at Universal or somewhere. So she ran them around in a -- you know, in a circle, getting absolutely nowhere.
I agree with you. She`s been lying to them. There`s no.
LALAMA: Would you take on a case knowing that a person could be lying right to your face?
PADILLA: I do that all the time. Fugitives that run -- and over 4,000 some, maybe 5,000, that I`ve brought back to justice from all around the world lied. Their mom lied. Their brother lied, their sister, their wife, they all lied. We have to get one little grain of truth to follow up as a lead.
LALAMA: Mr. Episcopo, as a defense attorney, you don`t have any issue with someone sort of stepping in and taking a little bit of an investigative approach here, which is what Mr. Padilla is doing.
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Of course not. Why would you object to someone.
LALAMA: Because he`s the bounty hunter.
EPISCOPO: So what? That`s just a title. He goes and finds people.
LALAMA: Why are you yelling?
EPISCOPO: You know? He goes and finds people. What`s the big deal about that?
LALAMA: Holly Hughes, what do you think?
HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Well, Pat, I agree with Mr. Majeski, our NYPD expert, who`s saying every time you get another person involved, especially a lay person -- and from perspective of law enforcement, this guy hasn`t been trained, he hasn`t been to the police academy, he hasn`t been to law enforcement or FBI academy.
I think the more people you get into it the more you`re going to confuse the issue. There`s the likelihood that information is going to get messed up. It`s not going to be relayed to the proper authorities. I mean the Anthonys are out there conducting their own investigation. Casey has - - her own investigation. We now have a psychic team doing their own investigation.
Nobody`s turned up anything. So I don`t think that this particular man coming in right now is going to work any magic.
LALAMA: Bethany Marshall, people say, gee whiz, if she`s not sitting in that horrible cell, she`s more likely to cooperate. What do you think?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": You know, I -- something that I thought was interesting is that apparently she turned down one of the jailhouse visits because her attorney had advised her. And it surprised me that she followed her attorney`s advice, given that she lies so extensively.
So I think that if anyone is going to get through to her, it might be the attorney. I mean I think it`s very omnipotent and grandiose for the bounty hunter to think that he can do it. And why do bounty hunters bring back the bad guy? Not so they can have a truthful meeting, a come-to-Jesus meeting, or a meeting of the minds. They do it because they have some external reward. He has a TV show coming up. That`s why he wants her out of jail.
LALAMA: Bill Majeski, does it compromise the case having the bounty hunter so closely involved with this person?
BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE BOARD MEMBER, SAFE NOW PROJECT: I would say absolutely yes because you have a man that`s doing an investigation that could very well interfere with the police investigation. Any time you have that additional person in between, you`re losing something.
You know, as an investigator over the years in law enforcement and in the private sector, one of my expertise is body language. Going in and talking to someone, 75 percent of what is not being said, 75 percent from the body language alone is what communicates messages to you. What you`re doing is you`re allowing a bounty hunter in there to talk to them and then perhaps give information to the police based on their interpretation of what`s being said.
Now another issue is that clearly if this woman is allowed to go back home, there`s always a real possibility that she will become looser in terms of her dialogue if perhaps she consumes some alcohol or things like that. That is perhaps one of the issues that our bounty hunter may be thinking about, that if he gets her in a very relaxed environment, she may be more inclined to slip up in terms of what information she does have.
But clearly she is the key to this entire investigation. She is the one that has information. And she knows exactly what happened.
LALAMA: All right. I have to shift gears just for a couple of minutes and we`ll get back to this matter.
But Wyatt Locke is a person who participated in a weekend search for Caylee.
Wyatt, thank you so much for being with us. Now, you did turn over material to police. This is important because they did accept it and this is sort of along the lines of Mr. Singer talking about interference with investigations.
We -- everyone appreciates what you do. It`s incredibly altruistic. Tell us first what you found, where it went, and then we`ll discuss the merits of that.
WYATT LOCKE, AT SEARCH LOCATION, PARTICIPATED IN WEEKEND SEARCH FOR CAYLEE: I`m sorry. Can you -- I didn`t catch the last part of the question.
LALAMA: All right. Well, just tell us what you found and where it went.
LOCKE: Well, we did find two knapsacks out in the wooded area, in the Econ Soccer Complex linked to Jay Blanchard Park. One with a pink flowery knapsack and the another one was a solid red knapsack along with some female clothing that matched the size that was described on the Orange County Sheriff`s Department warrant of stuff removed from the Anthony home along with a couple of articles of children`s clothing.
LALAMA: All right. This is significant. You did call police. They did accept it?
LOCKE: That is correct. As soon as it was found and we determined it might be something relevant, the entire group was called out of the area and law enforcement was notified immediately, in which when they arrived, they went and collected the knapsack and then went back and also collected two large brown bags of other stuff and loaded it into their vehicle, took our information, and then they left and let us know if they need anything else, they would be back in contact with us.
LALAMA: You know I have to ask people like you who take time out of your own lives to do something like this for a little girl you didn`t know. What gives you that incentive? And bless you for doing it. But what gives you that incentive?
LOCKE: Well, a bunch of us in the group, we -- you know, some of us have family connections. They have grandchildren, they have children and that`s their incentive.
My incentive is really just because, you know, it`s a little child, it`s a defenseless little child and, you know, I live in Orlando. I see the story on the news every night. And it`s something that I`ve become very, you know, entangled with. You know I`ve been watching the story. I see the pain that the family is going through.
I see the pain that the community is going through and the nation as a whole and they want to see this little girl found. And at this point we figured, you know, why not go out there and look for this little girl and see if we can maybe help?
LALAMA: Well, it is an incredible thing.
And Ronald Singer, as a forensic scientist, I know you also probably believe it`s an incredible thing when people try to get involved. But your concern is that things can be compromised.
RONALD L. SINGER, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Absolutely, I agree. As laudable as their desire to assist in this matter is -- and I think it is very laudable and they deserve credit for that -- I think that going out on your own, no matter how cautious you try to be, without the scientific knowledge or the training that a crime scene investigator or others would have in these instances, only opens the door for contamination, possible contamination at least, and the destruction of evidence that they don`t even know exists.
The stuff that they were able to see, from what I heard just now, they handled in the most appropriate way. They backed off and called the police.
LALAMA: Right.
SINGER: Let them come in to collect it. But what they didn`t see was what they may have walked on when they got there. And without the training and the expertise that is required to do that kind of job, I`m very, very concerned that groups like this that go in operate at cross purposes to what law enforcement is trying to do.
LALAMA: Very quickly, just a few seconds, Mark Williams, news director, WNDB, what about this forensic evidence that we`re waiting so patiently or not so patiently for with bated breath? When do we expect it, hear about it, and will we hear about it r at all?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, here`s the deal. We were supposed to hear about this nearly two weeks ago. A week has gone by. Nothing`s allegedly come in. We`ve waited another week. Nothing has come in. And there`s always been debate within the sheriff`s office whether any of the information from the DNA tests will ever be released. That`s soon to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PADILLA: I find it hard to believe that the mother of a 3-year-old child would harm her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on. You`re a bounty hunter. You have never heard of a mother harming their children?
PADILLA: Yes, yes, but I still want to believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY: I know Mom will understand this better than anyone that there is that type of bond that you have with your kid.
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY: Right.
CASEY: And it`s -- you know, it`s unexplainable.
CINDY: You know that gut feeling that maybe call for help.
We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.
It`s the same gut feeling that I know she`s out there. And that`s why I keep calling for help from the public.
CASEY: In my gut, she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s close to home.
UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: This is the child we`re trying to find. And we`re, again, hopeful and prayerful that we`re going to find Caylee.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: Good evening. Again, I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
Mr. Padilla, very quickly, I want to ask you, how do you notify -- do you made your official notification to.
PADILLA: That`s not my job. That`s Tony Padilla, my nephew`s job.
LALAMA: All right. What`s the next step? What happens next?
PADILLA: They -- tomorrow we`ll have to find out if -- and from what I understand, the monitoring system the court requires is in place. They have to get the monitoring people then to talk to her. There has to be some kind of a shrink evaluation and then there`s a couple other -- there`s one hold that`s a secret hold that they haven`t disclosed. I don`t know what it is.
LALAMA: When you talk about a psychological evaluation that will be ongoing or that`s something has to be done before her release?
PADILLA: I`m not sure. I`m not sure.
LALAMA: Joe, do you know the answer to that? Joe Episcopo, about it.
EPISCOPO: No.
LALAMA: . a psych -- why would they need a psychological evaluation before her release?
EPISCOPO: I don`t know. I`ve never heard such a thing. And that`s just.
LALAMA: Bethany Marshall, any clues why she might need a psychological evaluation before they release her?
MARSHALL: The only thing I can think of at this point is to determine whether she`s a harm to herself or others. I mean one of the things.
EPISCOPO: Exactly.
MARSHALL: . that`s associated with pathological lying is antisocial personality disorder. What`s associated with that besides disregard for the -- for the rights of others is really reckless disregard for the safety of others. But I really think it`s whether she`s suicidal or homicidal at this point.
LALAMA: All right. So we don`t know, it could be Tuesday. It could be Wednesday. We`re just not sure at this point what`s going to happen.
Ronald Singer, I want to talk about forensics in this matter. You know, we`re going to get a response, but we may never get it. You know, from your expertise, is this something that the public should be privy to, from a scientific -- you`re coming from a scientist`s perspective. Is that something the public needs to know about?
SINGER: Well, I think eventually the public will know about it, but not at this point. You know, it`s been -- the point has been made several times already tonight that Miss Anthony hasn`t been charged with anything yet in the way of a homicide.
And I think that this is -- as an ongoing investigation, I think that whether the police have the DNA results right now or not, they`re playing it very close to the vest because they`re continuing their investigation. I think that if and when she`s charged with homicide, then I think that all of this will become public. And at that point, I think that the public does have a right to know, of course.
LALAMA: Holly Hughes, as a former prosecutor, does it hurt the state`s case or help -- you know, harm it? And what does it do if the public is privy to what the investigation reveals?
HUGHES: Well, at this point, I think they`re keeping it close to the chest because they haven`t filed the homicide charges yet. They don`t want people going out there destroying evidence. They don`t want -- especially now that Casey is looking to get out, they don`t want her destroying evidence if, in fact, they found something that links her to homicide, Pat.
So it`s not going to affect the trial. The DNA results are the DNA results. You`re not going to mess with the science. And the great thing about what we always say is science doesn`t lie. You might have a witness lie but science doesn`t lie. So they`re keeping this close to the chest so that they can complete their investigation, go out there and find anything else that`s going to help them prosecute.
And, of course, once they`ve done that and filed those charges, we`re all going to know what the DNA results are and it`s not going to affect admissibility at trial, Pat, not at all.
LALAMA: Joe Episcopo, you got any kind of feeling one way or the other about this?
EPISCOPO: Yes. There`s a rule on this. Generally, evidence isn`t released until the arraignment. It`s given to the attorney. Once it`s given to the attorney then it`s released to the public. That`s generally how it`s done. There`s nothing that says they -- we have to get that information right away. It`s really involved in the case and the defense attorney.
LALAMA: You know, my question for Bill Majeski is, you know, what if -- you know, what if all of a sudden after she -- her release is executed, then they file charges? What does that do? She goes right back to jail? Give -- explain the process for us.
MAJESKI: Yes, I mean, she would absolutely go right -- once charges are filed, if she has been released and is on a bond, they would immediately bring her back to jail and re-arraign her on the current charges. But the thing is.
LALAMA: All right. Joe is arguing with you silently.
EPISCOPO: No, no, no.
LALAMA: Let`s -- Joe, do you dispute that?
EPISCOPO: No, listen, if she`s bonded on child neglect.
MAJESKI: Yes.
EPISCOPO: . and lying to the police, she`s not going to come back to jail.
MAJESKI: No, no, wait a second.
EPISCOPO: If she`s charged with a new crime.
MAJESKI: I said if she`s -- that`s exactly what I said. If she`s charged with another crime then absolutely.
EPISCOPO: Another crime.
MAJESKI: . they would bring her right back.
LALAMA: That`s what I`m saying, she`s charged with murder. Absolutely, they would bring her right back.
EPISCOPO: Of course, of course.
LALAMA: All right. And then all that.
EPISCOPO: She`d be rearrested on the new charge.
MAJESKI: Absolutely, re-arraigned. Absolutely.
LALAMA: And, Mr. Padilla, what happens -- all right, well, OK.
You know, Holly Hughes, I`ve been wanting to ask this all night. You know people are waiting, they`re waiting, they`re waiting, are there going to be more charges? You know from a state -- from the state`s perspective, what`s that one thread -- we all know circumstantial cases are winnable, so we know that`s, you know -- that`s in the card.
What`s the weakest possible case to take to the public here? Do you what -- do you follow my question?
HUGHES: Well, I do, Pat.
LALAMA: What`s the least amount of evidence do you need for the state to go to the D.A. or the district attorney here go OK, we`re ready, let`s go file.
HUGHES: Well, I tell you what. What you want to do is investigate fully because you don`t want to go forward with a case when you think there`s more possible evidence out there. Because once you try that person, if they`re acquitted that`s it. It`s called double jeopardy. It`s a legal concept...
LALAMA: Right.
HUGHES: . that says once you charged him you can`t go back and charge him more later. So I think what they`re doing is being very cautious. They`re making sure -- you know, they`re out there. They`re looking for a body. They`re looking for those DNA results. If that is, in fact, decomposition, what other dead body was in her car?
You know why did she dump that car in the first place? I mean, she didn`t have any other vehicle to get around in, so why ditch it? Why get rid of it? There`s so much that doesn`t make sense in this case. And we need to give investigators time to figure all that out.
And one other thing I want to point out tonight, Pat, the first thing this woman said is they`re going to pin this on me. That`s why I didn`t report it. That tells me a whole lot about what her number one concern is, and it`s herself, not her baby.
LALAMA: 15 seconds, Mr. Padilla, your response to that.
PADILLA: That`s people working on a homicide. I`ve got no involvement in that. I`m looking for her like she`s alive.
LALAMA: Do you plan on sitting down and talk to her, face to face?
PADILLA: Oh sure, once she`s out. Yes. I have no involvement in the homicide investigation or any part of it. That`s not my gig.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
Now let`s just remind ourselves and the viewers. She has been charged with child neglect and making false statements and nothing else at this point.
Mr. Padilla, your first order of business when this release is executed? Are you -- I`m trying to get back to where I was before. Are you going to sit down and say, now, come on, Casey, let`s have a talk? How are you going to go about this?
PADILLA: I`m just going to ask her to make my life easy.
LALAMA: Give me a quick line.
PADILLA: That`s it. Make my life easy. Look what you`re putting me through. You got 150 of these guys on television accusing me of being a sensationalist. Help me out.
LALAMA: Real quickly, Mr. Episcopo, you want to make a point about the speedy trial laws in this state. Very quickly.
EPISCOPO: Well, one thing of the reasons that they`re not charging her with anything else if they are going to do that is because there`s a speedy trial rule and she has to be brought to trial within a maximum of 190 days on a charge that`s filed against her.
That`s the speedy trial. They don`t have enough evidence to file other charges to get around that rule. And that`s the reason why I don`t believe she`s charged.
LALAMA: All right, you know what there? We`ve got a big week ahead. And there`s so much more. We`re going to be waiting patiently or not so patiently for what happens next with Casey. We`ll be here and we`ll have it all for you. And you`re going to come back. You guys promised you`ll be back.
PADILLA: Yes, I promise.
LALAMA: All right. Terrific. OK.
PADILLA: I want the public to realize that you invited me.
LALAMA: I did invite you.
PADILLA: I did not impose me here.
LALAMA: Yes, that`s the truth.
PADILLA: Or whatever these folks.
LALAMA: OK. That is the absolute truth.
PADILLA: OK.
LALAMA: Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Corporal Joshua Molina. He is 20 from Houston, Texas, killed in Iraq. A sports fanatic, he loved playing basketball and watching football with his sister. Remembered for his great stories and making others laugh. He dreamed of college and being a Border Patrol or FBI agent. He leaves behind parents, Jose and Maria, sister, Paula, and brother, Manuel.
Joshua Molina, a true American hero.
Thank you so much for being with us tonight. I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy.
Thank you for the opportunity, Nancy. All of you have a great evening. Back tomorrow 8:00 p.m. sharp, Eastern. I`ll see you then. Please be here with me. Good night.
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