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Nancy Grace
Jailed Mom of Missing Toddler May Be Bailed Out in the Morning
Aired August 19, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for nine long weeks, last seen with her mother. Bombshell developments tonight. Casey Anthony set to walk out of jail as early as 8:30 AM, a California bounty hunter posting $50,000 to bond out Caylee`s mom. He says 3-year-old Caylee is still alive and believes he can get mom, Casey, to talk. He reportedly claims that with a few burgers, French fries and a hot shower outside confinement, mom, Casey, will reveal to him what she hasn`t even told police or her own family. With mom, Casey`s, arraignment set for just 48 hours from now, will key evidence, including hair and fluid taken from her car trunk, finally be revealed in court? And tonight, have there been three new credible sightings of little Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The earliest Casey could get out would be tomorrow morning around 8:30.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A bounty hunter is adamant about getting the mom of the missing 3-year-old Caylee out of jail. This bounty hunter says it`s the only way she`s going to open up about what happened to her daughter.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Getting out of jail is the big thing. It`s very significant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?
PADILLA: The whole atmosphere. A month in jail is like two years on an island. It`s horrible. It`s degrading.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So once she gets out, what happens?
PADILLA: She goes home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she eats hamburgers and French fries, she loosens up?
PADILLA: Takes a hot shower, does her hair, paints her nails, starts feeling like a human again.
I find it hard to believe that a mother of a 3-year-old child would harm her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on! You`re a bounty hunter and you`ve never heard of mothers harming their children?
PADILLA: Yes, yes, yes, but I still want to believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, police desperately still searching for a 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The earliest Casey could get out would be tomorrow morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony`s been held on a half-million-dollar bond for more than a month, accused of child neglect and lying to a sheriff`s investigator. In mid-July, she said she turned her daughter, Caylee, over to a baby-sitter and hadn`t seen her in a month. California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla says he believes Caylee is being held by someone.
PADILLA: I believe the baby`s alive. I believe she passed her off to one of her friends -- Watch my baby, I`ll be back in a couple days. That person, for whatever reason, is down the road with the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says he believes Caylee`s mother has the information she`s not given to prosecutors that will solve this dilemma and that once out of jail, she might share it.
PADILLA: She`s going to have a situation where she`s sitting there at home. Grandma`s there, which is her mom. OK, so let`s say she`s got absolutely no feelings, except just a little, and she says, Hey, here`s who has the baby.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Could it be freedom, or at least some level of it? In just a few hours and a burger and a manicure, and perhaps Casey Anthony will sing?
Well, let`s go right now to Mark Williams, news director WNDB Newstalk 1150 for the latest. What is the latest on this impending level of freedom that we`re looking for?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Pat, Casey Anthony remains in the Orange County jail tonight on child neglect charges and also giving false information to law enforcement officers. However, bond can be posted at any time. The clerk of courts at Orange County has a window there at the jail that is open 24/7. At last report, the jail has not received notice from the clerk of courts that bail has been posted. But if it`s posted tonight, the earliest she can be released is during business hours on Wednesday, and that is as early as 8:30 AM.
However, it looks like if she is released from jail, she will have home confinement. Before she ever gets out of the bars, out of her 7-foot by 12-foot cell in isolation, the jail must notify the investigative agency, and in this case, it is the Orange County sheriff`s office. An internal hold, which has not been disclosed, but they can clear that up quickly, according to a jail spokesman, Allen Moore (ph). And due to Casey`s home confinement, there must be a clear telephone line where she plans to stay, and that is at the Anthony household in east Orange County. It must be a non-featured standard telephone line. That line was verified today, so there shouldn`t be a problem. Also...
LALAMA: All right. Oh, go ahead, finish up for us.
WILLIAMS: Well, earlier tonight, we received word that some plainclothes detectives visited the Anthony home on Hope Spring (ph) Drive in east Orange County. They showed up about 90 minutes ago in an unmarked cruiser. They met with the family for 45 minutes, then they went on their way. It`s a so-called standard normal meeting with George and Cindy Anthony.
And late last night, a jailhouse visit from attorney Jose Baez and his associate, who had a meeting with Casey last night at the Orange County jail -- it began at 10:51 last night, shortly before 11:00 o`clock, and went to just before 1:30 this morning.
LALAMA: All right. Now, I find that very interesting. And Natisha Lance, Nancy Grace producer, now, here`s the deal. My other half is a criminal defense attorney. He spends half his life down at jails talking to clients, but rarely at 11:00 o`clock until 1:00 in the morning, unless it`s something urgent. Is there something going on that we need to know about that happened with the lawyer and the client last night?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, nothing that we know of right now, Pat. However, we do know that her arraignment is coming up on Thursday, so perhaps they are talking about some type of strategy. However, at that arraignment, that will just be the time where the formal charges are told to her and she will be able to give whatever her plea is going to be. Now, at this point, her attorney has given the written plea of a non-guilty, so when she gets there, she can even nod her head yes or no and say that she understands these charges and go along with that plea.
LALAMA: All right. Now, I understand -- just to make this clear, Natisha -- the phone line, at least, has been cleared. The authorities say, That`s fine, we`re good with the phone that you have. It`ll be attached to the monitoring device.
LANCE: That`s correct. According to reports, that phone line has been cleared.
LALAMA: All right. Let`s take a call. And I believe we have Patti in Oklahoma. Hi, Patti.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
LALAMA: What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I have two. One is, I`d like to know why the bounty hunter believes that she`s going to reveal anything to him that she hasn`t already. And my second one is, he says that he can find Caylee in one week. Is he going to revoke that bond if he cannot find Caylee in that one week?
LALAMA: Let`s get it right from the horse`s mouth. My new friend, Leonard Padilla. Are you with us, Mr. Padilla? And you heard the question. How do you plead?
PADILLA: Listen to me! Listen to me. Listen to me! We will not revoke that bond if she doesn`t disclose anything. My nephew is the bail agent. I have paid him to post the bond. He has an agent from Florida that will be posting it.
There`s a glitch that has come up because there`s a bunch of bail agents in Miami and surety company owners in Miami, and what they`re saying is, You have to pay $50,000 to the Florida bondsman also. So now they want another $50,000. The man is saying, No, that`s not true. Tomorrow, the Department of Insurance in Florida`s going to have to make a decision on what these fellows in Miami are saying. They`re just a bunch of jealous people.
LALAMA: All right, hold on. Now...
PADILLA: What was the other question, that I can find her in a week? If she discloses the information, gives us one lead, the truth about who she turned the baby over to, yes, we believe we can find Caylee in one week.
LALAMA: And you`ll give back the money? Did I understand that correctly?
PADILLA: What money?
LALAMA: I think that the caller is asking would you be willing to give back any money that you`re making off of this if she gives you a lead within a week.
PADILLA: What, for the reward, you mean?
LALAMA: No, for the money that you`re making from the bond.
PADILLA: I`m not making any money off the bond. My nephew`s making the $50,000 off the bond.
LALAMA: All right. It`s your 50 grand, though, right?
PADILLA: It`s my 50 grand that...
LALAMA: And you`re saying you`re not getting a dime out of this in any way, shape, or form.
PADILLA: No. If there`s a reward -- if there`s a reward, like they say there`s $250,000 reward, if the lady gives me a tip, she can have the reward. I`ll do the work, she can have the reward.
LALAMA: All right. Well, let me tell you what your nephew has said. He says that there has been a snag. OK, here`s how Tony, your nephew, put it, that "Completing a transfer of a bond from California to Florida has turned out to be more complicated than anticipated." You`re saying there are now these other parties saying, Oh, me too, me too, we`re entitled to a share of this?
PADILLA: Yes.
LALAMA: All right. And now, won`t that hinder your ability to execute her release even tomorrow at 8:30 in the morning?
PADILLA: There`s a situation where the company in Texas is going to contact the Department of Insurance in Florida because this has never been brought up before. There`s transfer bonds done between California and Florida all the time. It`s never been brought up. All of a sudden, they`re bringing this up. I think they`re just creating something out of whole cloth, so to speak. They`re jealous that we`ve come from California to do something they haven`t been able to do.
LALAMA: So Leonard, is it fair to say, though, if this issue is pending, how could she possibly -- how could all of this be negotiated by 8:30 in the morning, is what I`m asking?
PADILLA: I didn`t say that this was being negotiated. You talked to my nephew, Tony. I haven`t discussed that issue with him. The issue I`m discussing with you right now is these agents bringing up these little glitches that keep jumping up because they -- they`ve never used this. It`s a technicality. We`ve had over 200 threats come in to us just in 48 hours that we`ve been in Florida, not just us, but also against the defendant.
LALAMA: All right. Now, let me ask you this. Have you gone to that little window at the clerk of courts and said, Here`s my 50 grand?
PADILLA: No, no, no, no. See, it`s not the 50 grand that he takes over there. The bondsman takes the bond for 500 thou. He could take it over there tonight. The jail tells us they only release people between 1:00 and 3:00, when there`s a bond posted. Only between 1:00 and 3:00.
LALAMA: But what I`m getting at is you`ve made absolutely no notification to anyone yet about executing this release.
PADILLA: Correct. You`d have to talk to Tony, but I don`t think that him or the lawyer have made notification yet. No, I don`t believe they have.
LALAMA: Larry Sutton, staff editor for "People" magazine, what are you hearing tonight about these conditions and the terms of -- and the glitches that seem to be appearing?
LARRY SUTTON, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, I don`t know the exact glitches, but if I were to bet, it`s probably something in the law that says that you have to have a local license to do something like this. And perhaps the bondsman does not have a local license, and that`s what they`re working out at the moment.
LALAMA: All right. Sheri from Tennessee. Hello, Sheri. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. My question is, I just want to know, I mean, if he really thinks the hamburgers and the shower and everything is going to, you know, make her just come absolutely clean. And also, my thought is, you know, what`s to say that she didn`t just go and sell the baby? I mean, if she`s done anything that is, you know, horrible to this child, she`s not going to come clean over a hamburger and a shower, I mean, you know?
And him saying that a month in jail is like two months or two years on an island -- he is crazy. He is completely outrageous and he`s only do it for publicity. That`s it. He`s not doing it for her. He`s Not doing it for Caylee. He`s doing it to gain on his own momentum. And it`s just disgusting.
LALAMA: Well, I know that Mr. Padilla would love to respond to that, but I`m going to give Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport," a chance. You know, that is the big question that people ask me every day, knowing that we are covering this case. There`s a string of lies. Whatever else she may or may not have done, we do know that Casey Anthony, as the judge put it, is a stranger to the truth. What is it about a burger and a manicure that`s going to make this bird sing?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I agree with the caller entirely. Everybody out there, including this caller, almost everybody believes that, unfortunately, little Caylee is not alive. All the evidence points to the fact she isn`t alive. Everything points to the fact that Casey has never told the truth, and the reason she is not telling the truth is probably because this child is not alive.
I agree there`s a lot of people wanting publicity, and that would include Mr. Padilla, and it also includes the grandparents themselves. You know, I`ve seen them out there doing all kinds of publicity things when nobody in the family or working outside the police and the public is pushing for the fact that, Hey, Casey, what we want is the truth. The grandparents should be fighting for the truth. And bounty hunters coming in should be fighting for the truth, which is, Casey, tell us the truth and stop obstructing justice, instead of, Let`s coddle her and let`s get publicity for ourselves.
LALAMA: Defense attorney Ray Giudice, hello. Nice to see you again.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How are you?
LALAMA: Tell me this. Are we making too much of that late night meeting with Mr. Baez and his client?
GIUDICE: Yes.
LALAMA: I mean, you know, I guess a lawyer always has something to talk to his client about, right?
GIUDICE: No, listen, the best time to go to a jail is in the evening and on Sunday. You don`t want to be there at 2:00 o`clock on Thursday afternoon, which is Mother`s Day, and spend four hours getting processed in and out. I think you`re making way too much of it. He had three, four hours of good quality time with his client. Yes, there`s an arraignment coming up on Thursday, so that was probably an important meeting. But I wouldn`t think -- I wouldn`t read too much into the late night aspect of it.
LALAMA: Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist -- back to the caller`s question. You know, Mr. Padilla feels he`s got some sort of magical ability, and I don`t deny he may have, something that`s going to make her talk to him. What`s your take on that?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: If he has it, he should bottle it. There`s absolutely nothing that suggests that giving someone a hamburger and a hot shower can make them tell the truth, especially when they have such a long history of not telling the truth. So far, everything that Casey has done has indicated that she is not fit to tell the truth. Until that happens, whether she`s in jail or at home, nothing`s going to change.
LALAMA: Mr. Padilla, what concerns me is the following. We`re not talking about a couple of white lies. We`re talking about a woman who will take a piece of information that is absolutely not the truth and take it to the last possible position, walking down a hallway at Universal Studios with cops and executives, saying, I`m going to take you to the office where I work, I`m going to take you there, you`re going to see, and then shortly -- getting right up to the door and stopping and going, Oops, no, sorry, I didn`t work there. How do you deal with someone who`s capable of that?
PADILLA: She has no respect for law enforcement.
LALAMA: But she might for you? They`re not the only people she`s lied to. Friends say that she is a habitual liar.
PADILLA: OK, now, let`s look at it from this angle. The lady there, your specialist, your expert, kept talking about evidence, evidence, evidence. If law enforcement had any kind of evidence against her for manslaughter, murder, whatever, she`d be charged with it. She`s got a $500,000 bond, mismanaging her child.
LALAMA: Well, but hold on a second.
PADILLA: Come on! Where`s the murder charge?
LALAMA: Joe Episcopo, defense attorney, these are legitimate charges, at least the ones that are pending now. We`re not talking about future charges. Plus, they`re allowed to take their time investigating. What`s the problem?
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s an excessive bond for a third-degree felony and a first-degree misdemeanor. People don`t get -- you usually get about a $3,500 bond. My understanding is that bond is so high because the judge felt that she`s a danger to herself. One of the conditions of her release is to see if she is a danger to herself. So perhaps that`s the reason for the high bond.
LALAMA: Do you think there`s any possibility that on Thursday, on the arraignment, that the lawyer will revisit or try to revisit with the judge the issue of bail?
EPISCOPO: He can, but you know, he doesn`t even have to appear at arraignment, if he doesn`t want to. He`s entered his appearance in writing. He`s pled not guilty. And that`s all that really happens at arraignment. You enter your plea and you show that you have a lawyer. That`s it. So if he doesn`t want to appear, he doesn`t have to. Of course, he may want the opportunity for the photo op.
LALAMA: Larry Sutton, staff editor of "People" magazine, you know, what are you hearing about Thursday`s arraignment, anything?
SUTTON: Well, all I can tell you is that that`s a chance for them to lay it out and say, Here`s what you`re charged with. And it`s something that they probably should have done a while back. She`s been in jail for a very long time before this arraignment. Part of it`s her own fault for not speaking up and saying anything. But due process is coming about, just took a little longer than usual.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PADILLA: I don`t think the little baby`s dead. I think the baby`s alive, and I think we can find her, but the person that has to give us the information is the mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s no danger to the community. The court has said that. She has significant ties to the community.
PADILLA: Do any of you have any doubt in your mind that if she killed her baby and buried it, that law enforcement would find the baby eventually? Is there a doubt in your mind about that? If that happens, she goes back to jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, she`s not going to run.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But does she know more than she`s telling?
PADILLA: Oh, absolutely. No doubt about it. You folks know that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Mr. Padilla, you said something that struck me as quite interesting. You said since you`ve been here, you`ve gotten hundreds of threats? Who are these people? And are you telling the cops about it?
PADILLA: Well, we contacted the FBI because now we have found that some of the threats are coming from competitors in the bail bond business that don`t want the bond posted.
LALAMA: Wait, wait, wait, wait! You`re saying you`re actually -- physical -- what kind of threats? Can you repeat some for us?
PADILLA: They`re threats -- they`re threats, e-mail threats. They`re threats against the defendant. They`re threats against us. And now we`re starting to get threats against posting the bond by competitors who want us not to do that, which is an infringement, a civil rights infringement, against interstate commerce. That`s why I called the feds tonight and said, I want to see you in the morning.
LALAMA: I want to go back to that a little more, but we`ve got a lot of callers and I want to hear from them. Amanda, I believe from Pennsylvania. If I`m wrong, forgive me. OK. Amanda, what have you got?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Everyone has a voice (ph) for Caylee`s mother and the grandparents. And I understand that the biological father`s deceased, but where`s the other side of the family? It takes two to make a baby. And there`s got to be another voice. And I actually share the birth date with Caylee, so this particular case holds a deep part of my heart which I`ll always remember. And I hope that she is found. But the record shows -- I mean, what was it, a woman did fake crying and actually put three of her boys in the car and sunk it. I mean, so it`s been known for mothers to do terrible things to their children.
LALAMA: Well, let`s find out about the first part of your question. Natisha Lance, our producer, what do we know about the other side of the family?
LANCE: Well, the father has never been in the picture. His name was not ever on the birth certificate. So in addition, his family has not been in Caylee`s life, as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just tell me quickly. How is she more helpful outside of jail?
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, I`ll be able to communicate with her a lot more openly. When you`re in jail, you don`t feel the comfort of the fact that you`re alone and you have the ability to speak openly and freely. That`s number one. Number two, I plan on having a lot more contact with her, giving me a lot more opportunity and a lot more access to my client, which is always a good thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re going to have somebody in the home with her 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For how long? How long can you sustain that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Until we figure out what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, what if it`s months or a year?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you`re going to be keeping somebody posted at the Anthony home with her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. And great anticipation. Will she be home sometime tomorrow, anytime soon? That`s what we`re all waiting for.
You know, I want to go to Mark Williams. Mark, just give me very briefly an update on the investigation and where we are with the forensics and the laboratory testing. Very quickly.
WILLIAMS: Real quick, Pat, is the fact that they are still waiting, as we -- as long as we know -- they`re waiting for their DNA tests to come back from whatever lab they sent it to, the FDLE and the FBI. They were supposed to be back over two weeks ago. They have not come back. So -- and we won`t know what those DNA tests say until they, A, release them, or B, they are finally presented in court.
LALAMA: OK. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, that DNA, that stuff is really critical, isn`t it.
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I think absolutely. This is a forensic case. And we`re all interested in truth and justice, and the way to do that is through science and technology. DNA is the gold standard and it will provide a great deal of information, and it may end up solving this case one way or the other.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey has been a very wonderful, caring mother, and I`ve never seen anything to not believe her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not telling you where her daughter is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: It appears to the court you care so little for your child, you did not even report her missing until five weeks later.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her own mother doesn`t know exactly where she was those 31 days. So we have to try to put pieces together to try to figure out at any given day where she could have been.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s going to continue down the same road, with a woman that doesn`t exist, phone numbers that come back to disconnect, addresses that people haven`t been living in months. She steals a car, leaves it in a part of town where she was supposed to be in another part of town. Everything is a lie.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF CAYLEE: When something tragic happens, we don`t know how we`re going to handle it. The 22-year-old does not always make the right decisions.
CHRISTINA, FAMILY FRIEND: How come everybody`s saying you`re not upset, you`re not crying, you showed no caring of where Caylee at all?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE: Because I`m not sitting here (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crying every two seconds because I have to stay composed to talk to detectives.
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER: I`ve told everyone where I used to take her. What I can say? You believe in your child, you put faith in everything, you know?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
And you know it seems like the millions of people interested in this case are just waiting for that one shot of Casey Anthony coming out of that jail with her little ankle bracelet.
But I got to go back to Leonard Padilla, because -- Leonard, if I`m understanding this, really nothing can happen until you get this issue cleared up with these contentious bail bonds people from Florida.
Is that what you`re saying?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, PLANS TO BAIL OUT CASEY ANTHONY: That`s my nephew`s job. He`s the bail agent.
LALAMA: But no, that`s not fair, Leonard.
PADILLA: Wait. Wait.
LALAMA: No, you said you were the spokesperson and he`s in the background.
PADILLA: No, listen to me.
LALAMA: So you have to -- yesterday you were confident and today you`re not.
PADILLA: Am I telling you? Am I telling you?
LALAMA: No, you`re -- no, you`re saying you have to ask your nephew.
PADILLA: No, no, no. I`m saying that he has to -- him and Robert Sable -- Robert sable is the vice president of the company in Texas. He -- Robert Sable has to deal with the Department of Insurance and say, look, we`re allowed to do business, we`re allowed to do interstate business, why are these jerks in Miami throwing sand in the gears?
LALAMA: I don`t dispute that, all I`m asking you is so our viewers understand what`s next is that you really can`t go expect any release until that matter is settled with whoever, whatever agency needs to conduct whatever hearing regarding this.
PADILLA: Correct. Correct, the Department of Insurance has to say, no, they`re misinterpreting the statute.
LALAMA: All right. So for people who may have missed all this in the beginning of the show, if you`re just tuning in, there is the snags in the works at this point.
PADILLA: There is a snag. Yes.
LALAMA: All right. We`ve got lots of callers, Leonard. Don`t you move from that spot.
Larry from Florida, how are you?
LARRY, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Pat. I`m doing fine, thank you. I`ve got two questions.
LALAMA: OK.
LARRY: First of all, I constantly here in the nine weeks that the wooded areas in and around the Anthony home have been checked. But what about the bodies of water? Have they sent out divers or anything? And number two, where is this $225,000 reward? Where or who is this coming from?
LALAMA: Those are great, great questions.
Mark Williams, address the bodies of water issue first.
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Several weeks ago, the Orange County Sheriff`s Department held what they have -- and I`m going to put in quote -- a "training exercise" in what we call a drainage area or a drainage pond near the Anthony home.
They say it was planned before this thing ever went down. They sent divers in. Heck, they even put up crime scene tape around the area, Pat. All they recovered were three stolen cars out of the water.
As for the other issue about the $225,000, that`s coming from some nonprofit groups, from what I understand, who put up some of that money. It`s the same folks who have placed the sign on the back of George Anthony`s Chevy HHR and he`s dragging it around the neighborhood.
LALAMA: All right. Let me interrupt you right there because I think, Natisha Lance, you know the name of the organization and they do seem legit. Am I correct?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, they do seem legit, actually, Pat.
LALAMA: What`s the name of the group?
LANCE: The name -- Kids Finders Network.
LALAMA: And they -- no question about them. Credible source?
LANCE: No question about them. They`ve helped with many cases, many missing children, missing adults cases here in Florida and all across the country.
LALAMA: Pat Brown, criminal profiler, 225 grand is a lot of incentive for somebody to come forward, yet no one has.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": Exactly, because we`re not looking for a missing child. If she were out there, somebody would have said something. Somebody -- even if Casey had moved her some place and one of her friends knew something about it, they would have said something.
I think it`s interesting if we look back at Casey`s statement in the jail where she said, I have to maintain my composure to talk to the police. That is the only true thing she said, because she could cry all she wants and fall apart in front of the police if she were telling the truth.
But you do have to maintain your composure if you want to keep up those lies and not get convicted of anything. So when she gets out, Mr. Padilla, she`s going to keep up that same composure with you because you know darn well that she`s not going to tell you anything.
LALAMA: Hey, Leonard, are you going to take that bait?
PADILLA: I don`t know that and you don`t either. You`re just sitting there getting paid to say that.
LALAMA: But now -- well, wait a minute, wait a minute, Leonard. Here`s the point. This is -- let me go back to this. Casey Anthony, some may argue, is incredibly manipulative that she just may look at you as, oh, here`s my next challenge to see how far I can take him to the office door before I turn around and say oops, sorry, I was lying.
PADILLA: She`s not going to take my anywhere that I ain`t been before. That`s for damn sure.
LALAMA: But you -- everybody.
PADILLA: I`ve been involved in over 4,000 captures of fugitives and several dozen cases that involve missing children where I was successful when people thought this guy is never going to go anywhere. And I`ve got the guys that will prove that work for law enforcement and FBI.
LALAMA: You know, Joe Episcopo, again, let me get back to this issue of $225,000, which is a lot of incentive for even the worst vile human pond scum, you know, who`s involved with bad stuff.
No one has -- I mean, isn`t that a little suspicious to you?
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What`s that?
LALAMA: That no one has come -- I mean that`s a lot of.
EPISCOPO: Oh yes.
LALAMA: That`s a lot of money.
EPISCOPO: Well -- and you know.
LALAMA: I mean if this child -- and I hope to God she`s alive. I hope to God she is a live. I have no reason to believe she`s not. But I`m just saying -- you know, I`ve covered a lot of these cases, this is a lot of money, there`s a lot of people interested in this child. It seems like there`d be a little more information coming forward.
EPISCOPO: Well, I don`t know, you know. Somebody that may be involved in a kidnapping isn`t necessarily going to collect that money.
LALAMA: But what are they going to get -- wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on.
Joe, if it`s a kidnapping, what`s the point of a kidnapping but for ransom. Money is the thing if you`re talking about kidnapping.
EPISCOPO: Yes, but you`re not going to get -- you`re not going to get the reward if you`re a kidnapper.
LALAMA: No, but there`s another way around it. I mean they do that - - they could find other ways because here`s my point. They`re certainly not getting any money right now. The family doesn`t have that kind of money. All right?
EPISCOPO: Well.
LALAMA: So they`re going nowhere if it`s a kidnapping is what I`m saying.
EPISCOPO: You know it`s not been publicized that much either, this $250,000. This is the first I`ve heard of it this week. Did you hear about it last week?
LALAMA: Yes, yes -- no, this is -- it has, it`s out there. We`ve had it on this show. It is out there. A lot of people know about it.
And Dr. Janet Taylor, let me ask you -- the psychiatrist -- I mean the mentality of people out there, are they going to be afraid to come forward or something -- that -- the deal is they say everyone`s afraid, everyone`s afraid. You know it`s an ugly thing.
If you know something, someone with a $225,000 reward, somebody`s going to come forward.
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, absolutely. We can`t lose sight of the fact that we`re talking about an innocent 3-year-old girl who`s out there. So certainly if someone knew something, I don`t think they`d be afraid to come out at all. In fact, there`s been over 1,000 tipsters.
But I think to your point, if someone was motivated by money, certainly they would find a way to get Caylee exposed.
LALAMA: Exactly.
TAYLOR: There`s no question.
LALAMA: Exactly.
OK, Wanda in Alabama, hello, Wanda.
WANDA, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Hello.
LALAMA: What`s your question?
WANDA: I have two questions.
LALAMA: OK.
WANDA: One, I would like to know if the taxpayers are picking up the tab for the attorney fees. And if they`re not, who is? And if the parents really believe Casey`s story, why aren`t they the ones bailing her out of jail?
LALAMA: Larry Sutton, do we know if Mr. Baez is getting paid?
LARRY SUTTON, STAFF EDITOR, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Well, it`s not tax.
LALAMA: Or this is a pro bono so far.
SUTTON: It`s not taxpayer money, no.
LALAMA: Right.
SUTTON: No taxpayer money going to them. This is pro bono.
LALAMA: Well, he`s not a public defender. He`s not a public defender. He`s.
SUTTON: No, he`s not. And perhaps, perhaps this is, you know, pro bono work so far, and if there`s money to be made, he`ll get paid later. But right now, no.
LALAMA: Ray Giudice, what`s in it? Obvious question, but I want to hear you say. What`s in it for Mr. Baez? I mean this is a difficult case, he`s not making any money, certainly he`s getting the publicity. Is this just all about that he believes in Casey Anthony?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. I think it`s genuine. Also, look, a lot of us -- a lot of us attorneys are -- we like big cases, we like challenges. This is a tough case. But so far, he`s done a good job. There`s been no confession, there`s been -- no jailhouse snitches.
And I want to say that, you know, the fact that the reward hasn`t shaken down any witnesses, you know, maybe something totally innocent happened. Maybe this is not the homicide or kidnapping of the century. And it`s consistent with accidents that only Casey really knows what happened.
LALAMA: I just have a few seconds, so I`m going to take a question from Mike in New York. Can you make it quick for me, Mike?
MIKE, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Yes. I was just wondering, when she gets released tomorrow, is she going to be on home monitoring or house arrest?
LALAMA: Well, I`ll let Leonard explain that. What is -- it is home monitoring and it is house arrest, essentially, is it not?
PADILLA: I`m understanding that it`s both at the same time.
LALAMA: All right. And is it true that you did ask for GPS rather than.
PADILLA: No.
LALAMA: You did not ask.
PADILLA: I don`t know where that came from.
LALAMA: Interesting. That`s important -- all right. Well, we`ll get to that later.
Thanks, Leonard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: We love you and, you know, please think of anything that we can help find Caylee, because as soon as we can help find her, it`s going to be open and shut to get you out of there. OK, darling?
CASEY: Absolutely, I know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Where is Caylee Anthony?
CINDY: There`s something wrong, I can`t find my granddaughter. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: You left your 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist at an apartment you cannot identify.
G. ANTHONY: The gas can situation was someone broke in my shed, stole my two gas cans.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was it your daughter in the end that you found out had taken them?
G. ANTHONY: All I can say is it is in front of her car. That`s all I can tell you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have anything to say about the new (INAUDIBLE) that Caylee might be dead that it might have been an accident?
G. ANTHONY: Shut up.
CINDY: (INAUDIBLE) quit publicizing that stuff. She`s out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing to indicate that she`s not alive. We are hoping that this child is alive. And we would love if this child is alive and well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. I want to go right to Natisha Lance, our NANCY GRACE producer.
Give us a brief tutorial on the latest in the evidence. What`s going on with the evidence so I can get to our good buddy, Mr. Kobilinsky?
LANCE: Well, right now, there are three dozen forensic samples that they are taking from the trunk and things that they are looking at from the home. However, we still don`t have those DNA results back yet. They are also looking at -- there was a searcher who was out in the woods and located a backpack and some clothing. They took that into evidence.
However, I did speak to Deputy Padilla today. He told me that that`s not anything that they think is connected to this case at this time. But it`s interesting that they were able to rule that out. However, we still don`t have those DNA tests back.
LALAMA: Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, now help us understand the importance of -- all of this. We understand that there are hair samples. They`re taking -- they took hair samples, there`s a stain. Talk a little bit about the significance of these various elements of investigation here.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, I think the most important thing to the prosecution, at least, is placing Caylee in that trunk. Is the hair from Caylee? You can do that through microscopic investigation as well as mitochondrial DNA.
There are ways to determine if it`s her hair. How many hair -- there is a clump of hair? Was it pulled out? Did it come out as a result of decomposition?
Obviously, the stain is critical. If it turns out to be some sort of stain that it results from decomposition fluids and if Caylee`s DNA is present in that stain, that would be absolutely devastating for the defense.
But we don`t know yet. And that bothers me because I think enough time has elapsed where we can expect a result. And it could be either they`re holding back because they don`t have to reveal their results or there may be decomposed or degraded DNA and they have to use other special technology to determine whether there is a match to Caylee or not.
LALAMA: It`s obvious that time is not a friend to the investigative process, correct?
KOBILINSKY: Absolutely. As -- you know, anything biological degrades over time. And although that is generally true, DNA is pretty hard and pretty sturdy. But, of course, you can get degradation especially we`re talking about possible decomposition.
But, you know, we may get a total exclusion. It may not even be a dead body. I wonder how many times Cindy has smelled a dead body. She says it smelled like a dead body in the car. But what experience has she had with that?
LALAMA: Well, that`s an interesting point, because I believe that she is in the medical field as a nurse, am I right about that, Mark Williams? Is she not a nurse?
WILLIAMS: She is. She is a registered nurse. She is working for a large company right now. And I think throughout her nursing career that she has probably smelled a decomposed body one time or another because...
LALAMA: I`m sorry. Let me cut you off here.
And Larry Sutton from "People" magazine, and the husband, George, he`s a former cop, so if any two people might have been exposed to that odor, which I understand, you never forget, it`d be them.
SUTTON: Sure, there`s a lot of experience here and experience that should help them a lot in trying to find a missing child. But so far it hasn`t worked.
LALAMA: All right, something really important is the arraignment, which is coming up on Thursday. And that takes us into a whole different arena. So first, I`m going to have Joe Episcopo explain for us in an arraignment, it is simply, here`s the charges, I plead guilty, not guilty, or no contest.
What happens in the state of Florida in an arraignment?
EPISCOPO: In an arraignment, you -- first of all, they want to know if you`re going to have an attorney. So if you have an attorney present, the attorney will enter a not guilty plea. You can also do it in writing. You don`t even have to go to the arraignment. It is not a big deal. It is not a big occasion.
It`s simply the start of the case where dates are going to be set. Perhaps a pre-trial conference and a trial date. She has a right to have this case -- this trial must start on these charges within day 190 of her arrest. If the trial doesn`t start on day 190, she goes free on those charges. They`ll be dismissed and double jeopardy will attach.
LALAMA: All right. Ray, is it possible that the attorneys could revisit the issue of bail? Or is that over with now? They`ve taken it to a higher court and it is what it is?
GIUDICE: Well, listen, it`s been up twice to the Supreme Court. It`s pretty much set in stone. And the bond`s potentially about to be made. So I don`t think you`d be fooling with that at this point in time.
Joe`s absolutely right, the administrative time clock is about to start on Thursday. That puts the state under the gun. They`ve got to put up or shut up in that 190-day period and I wouldn`t do anything to delay that arraignment. I would keep the clock moving if I was defense counsel.
LALAMA: Leonard Padilla, I -- you may not be privy to this, but a lot of people say, well, if the state`s got anything more, this could be the day. Do you plan to be at that arraignment and do you know anything you want to share with us?
PADILLA: No, I was planning on going there. Yes.
LALAMA: You will be there?
PADILLA: Yes.
LALAMA: And here`s the thing, Leonard. Now this is just a hypothetical. Let`s say tomorrow you`re able to post bail, you`re able to get her out, and she goes home, OK?
PADILLA: Correct.
LALAMA: You`ve done your job, you put up some money, you`ve given all the assurances that you can possibly give short of, you know, a trip to heaven.
PADILLA: I understand.
LALAMA: OK. Thursday there`s the arraignment, let`s just say hypothetically some new charges come in. It -- the whole process starts again, right?
PADILLA: Well, the bond`s only good for the charges that she`s been unless the judge decides to include the new charges in the same bond. It`s -- you never know.
LALAMA: It`s just -- we don`t know. But at this point, your job is regarding the issues at hand, the charges at hand, and the bail that`s set for these particular charges.
PADILLA: The deal I made with my nephew was I`d pay a $50,000 premium for the charges that are on board that have been brought forward right now on the $500,000 bond. That`s as far as we`ve gone.
LALAMA: Pat Brown, criminal profiler, you know, a lot of speculation. Will there be more? Will there be more? Just a guess, a gut guess as I only got 15 seconds.
BROWN: Well, I think there`s going to be more. I don`t think that this is going to be just the end of it all. No, there`s going to be more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
Mr. Padilla, I have a question for you. How would you feel about Casey taking a polygraph with our good friend Jack Trimarco, one of the great polygraphers of the world, if that`s the proper term?
PADILLA: You`ve been listening to my phone calls.
LALAMA: What? What do you mean? Come on, (INAUDIBLE). Is that even a possibility? I mean if this woman is capable of.
PADILLA: We both know -- we both know who the best person for that in the world is, but here`s the thing. There`s one condition that she would probably accept it under and that was if her and the polygrapher who was hired by her attorney were in a room and nobody was there and nobody knew that she took the polygraph and if it came up negative, she didn`t do anything with it.
LALAMA: See, I think that`s exactly what happened.
PADILLA: But if it came up positive.
LALAMA: . with O.J. Simpson, and if I recall properly, that he took one and he flunked at miserably and it never went anywhere.
PADILLA: Well, because they`re not admissible in a court of law.
LALAMA: Well, let me ask you, Janet Taylor, our psychiatrist, very quickly, I`ve just got a few seconds. A lot of people think she`s slicking to pull one over on a polygrapher, if that`s the proper term. I think it is so go ahead.
TAYLOR: That`s not my expertise. However, it would be difficult even if she is slick to pull something off on a polygrapher, basically, because you`re -- measuring physiological reactions and you -- it`s hard to fake that.
LALAMA: Wow. All right. Stay tuned.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant Charles Jankowski, 24, from Panama City, Florida. Killed in Iraq on a second tour of duty. Awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. He loved fishing, camping, grilling out and country music. His favorite singer Johnny Cash.
He dreamed of being a Florida wildlife officer. He leaves behind parents, Rose and Bill, sisters, Felicia and Beverly.
Charles Jankowski, a true American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us. And thanks, Nancy, for the opportunity.
I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. See you tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern. Until then, have a great evening.
END
