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Nancy Grace
Bond Posted for Jailed Mother of Missing Florida Toddler
Aired August 20, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for nine long weeks, last seen with her mother. Fast-breaking developments tonight. Just moments ago, a California bounty hunter and bail bondsman arrived at the Orange County jail to put up that $50,000 to bond out Casey Anthony. Mom, Casey, will now walk out of jail early tomorrow morning. That bounty hunter believes 3-year-old Caylee is still alive. And he says once mom, Casey, is out of confinement, she`ll loosen up and talk. An arraignment set for tomorrow morning. But when will key evidence -- hair and fluid from Casey Anthony`s car trunk -- finally be revealed? Tonight, what happened to 3-year-old Caylee Anthony?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of missing 3-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Just moments ago, a bail bondsman posted the money to get to tot mom Casey Anthony out of jail. The jail says that Anthony could be released from behind bars as early as 8:30 AM tomorrow morning. Anthony will be required to wear an ankle monitor, and according to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, will be on 24-hour watch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is somebody going to be keeping an eye on the house?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Oh, yes. We`ll have security people living there, yes.
Here`s the thing. There`s been threats against her, so we also have to protect her from that. You know, we can`t just, OK, see you, and somebody blows her away. No. There`s been a lot of threats against her, and we don`t want her to get harmed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony is also scheduled to be arraigned on felony child neglect and false statement charges tomorrow morning at the Orange County courthouse, where she`s expected to plead not guilty to the two counts which could result in nearly six years behind bars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight. Police desperately still searching for a 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee, and just moments ago, $50,000 bond posted so mom, Casey Anthony, can walk out of jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a couple of minutes ago, Al Estes (ph), a Miami bail bondsman who has been working with the bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, showed up here at the central booking area of the jail. He is going to file all the paperwork necessary to post bond to get Casey Anthony out of jail. This is a process that will probably have Casey Anthony not getting out of the Orange County jail any earlier than about mid to late morning tomorrow. Casey Anthony is facing numerous charges, but the most serious right now is a third degree felony, and that is child neglect. She will be on an electronic monitor at her home in east Orange County. If she goes any more than 150 feet from that home, authorities will know about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think the chances are that she is going to skip out of town?
PADILLA: Zero. Zero. Where`s she going to go? The girl`s never been out of town. She`s never been out of the county. Where`s she going to go?
I can`t find any trace that she`s ever been anywhere except right here and living with her parents.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So far, everything that Casey has done has indicated that she is not fit to tell the truth. Until that happens, whether she`s in jail or at home, nothing is going to change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Well, here we go. Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. And right in my hands, hot off the jailhouse presses, the bond documents. This is it. It will be done.
And we will go right to Mark Williams, news director WNDB Newstalk 1150. Hey, Mark, give us the latest.
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Pat, it`s been a very exciting day here in Orange County. Of course, just moments ago, Tampa bail bondsman Tony (ph) Estes posting $50,000 bond. That`s 10 percent of the $500,000 bond that Casey Anthony is being held on in the Orange County jail. She could be out of jail as early as 8:30 tomorrow morning. But the big deal is, that`s not going to happen right away, if everything is fine. What`s going to happen is she probably won`t be out until midday or even by mid-afternoon.
She`s got to jump through a couple of hoops, Pat. First off, they must notify Orange County sheriff`s investigators as to what`s going on. She must jump through another hoop. It`s an internal hold, as they say. They won`t say what it is. We have a feeling it`s a quick psychological test to see if she`s able to go out into -- be released with that ankle monitor. And of course, the ankle monitor will continue to monitor her when she`s in the house. As we documented earlier this week, the Anthonys have installed a private line into that residence. It can`t have any sort of a cable phone modem or anything else on that line. It must be a clear line so she can go out there and join her parents once again over in east Orange County, Pat.
LALAMA: Well, you know what? It`s a very interesting matter of events today because Nikki Pierce, who`s a reporter for WDBO radio -- I mean, we know there were glitches, and those glitches have apparently been de-glitched?
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: I suppose they have been de-glitched. There were a number of problems that were cropping up, some red tape that was a little more difficult to transfer a bond from California to Florida, and so on, and checking on the phone line, as Mark Williams mentioned. But it looks like everything is clear, and Mr. Padilla was at the Orange County jail today, along with Al Estes, posting the bond.
LALAMA: All right. We will talk to him in just moments, I guarantee you. Natisha Lance, Nancy Grace producer -- hey, Natisha, she`s going home. I can only imagine what that neighborhood is going to be like. It almost seems to me it would be better to put her in an undisclosed location, rather than home.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Mr. Padilla has said that there will be 24/7 around-the-clock people from his camp who will watching on Casey to ensure that nobody will harm her, to make sure also that she won`t flee, as well. But there were previous reports that Cindy Anthony was looking into possibly a safe house for Casey because there have been threats made against the family and there also were some threats or indications that Casey might be harmed when she gets out of jail.
LALAMA: Well, let`s go right to the man of the hour, Leonard Padilla. How are you doing, Leonard? I have to congratulate you. You came to do what you said you were going to do, and you`ve done it, so to speak. What happens now?
PADILLA: Well, tomorrow, she goes in for the -- it`s for an evaluation. That`s what the hold is.
LALAMA: A psychological evaluation.
PADILLA: Right. The doctor could still say, No, I don`t want her released.
LALAMA: And on what grounds? That he would feel maybe she`s a danger to herself or...
PADILLA: A danger to herself is mainly what they`ve come up with on some occasions, not a danger to the public or society but a danger to herself. The DA could add charges -- you know...
LALAMA: Lots of things could happen.
PADILLA: Yes, there`s still a lot of things that can happen, but we don`t believe that they will, but if they do, that`s out of our control. The bond`s been posted. The law enforcement agency, the jail, the investigating agency has to be notified.
LALAMA: All right. Well, you know, lots of people are interested, with lots of questions, so let`s start taking those questions first from Diane in Florida. Hi, Diane.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How`re you doing?
LALAMA: Great. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first I want to tell you you`re doing a great job on this investigation.
LALAMA: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it possible that it was an accident, and the reason she borrowed the shovel and stole the gasoline from her parents, that possibly, maybe, God forbid, she may have burned the body to get rid of evidence?
LALAMA: Well, you know, that`s a question people ask, Renee Rockwell. Let`s keep in mind that she has not been charged with anything but child neglect and false statements. But the question is, Where is her daughter? And our caller wants to know, could it have been an accident?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. And the thing is that she needs to get lawyered up. She needs to decide what her story is. She needs to stop talking because she`s painting herself into a corner, Pat. That`s what she needs to do, get a lawyer and stop talking.
LALAMA: Well, you know, Leonard, let me ask you. I mean, you`re going to try to talk to her. You think that freedom will instigate openness in terms of what happened. You know, how much do you want her to talk? And do you only want her to talk to you?
PADILLA: Well, here`s the situation. You know, I probably won`t be talking to her tomorrow or the next day or two or three days down the road. I think it`s important that she get in there and be with her family. She`s got a brother that she`s very close to. Let them deal with her the first few days. You know, in spite of what that idiot Bo Dietl up in New York claims, I have no intentions of talking to her or taking her and a six-pack of beer to a motel. Let her be with her family for a few days.
LALAMA: Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, what would you advise her to do at this point? You cannot deny that the fact that she`ll be at home, where there will be helicopters flying around and reporters around and everybody wants a piece of her. How would you handle this?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: My first advice to her would be that any conversation she has with anyone, including Mr. Padilla, her mother, her brother or anyone else is not privileged. She`s got to be concerned about who she talks to and what she says to anyone, if she`s goings to protect herself and her own rights. That`s the first thing I would tell her. I would tell her to get healthy, and we would sit down and talk about our defense strategy, prepare for this upcoming trial for which she`s going to be arraigned for tomorrow.
LALAMA: Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, what it`s like for a young woman to be in jail? I mean, you know, it`s terrible for anybody, but looking her case -- she`s a mother. Her daughter`s missing. We don`t know the circumstances. What`s it been like for her? She`s been alone. It`s not really solitary confinement, but she has been separated from the other prisoners.
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it`s pretty terrible to be in that circumstance for any reason. But with her daughter missing, with the intense media scrutiny and with her family talking so much, she has no control over anything, so it`s got to be enormously painful and frustrating.
I, too, hope that she goes home and stays quiet for a little while to regroup and decide what she`s going to say and what she`s not going to say, and hopefully, she`ll tell the truth, finally.
LALAMA: There are very strict terms when you get to be at home under this kind of electronic monitoring, which we`ll get to in a minute.
First let`s take another call, and then I`m going to explain the whole bond process so everybody gets what happened. Pam in South Carolina. Hey, Pam.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
LALAMA: I`m great. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I want to say I`m glad that she`s getting out.
LALAMA: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I`m going to tell you why. The reason is that in jail, she can go there and she can get away, escape it. When she gets home, she`s going to be with her parents and you know they`re going to be asking her questions. Not only that, but she`s going to be surrounded by Caylee`s things. And if that wouldn`t break somebody, I can`t imagine what would.
LALAMA: Very interesting. Let me ask Tom Shamshak, former police chief -- I`m sorry, I probably didn`t pronounce that correctly -- Shamshak -- and private investigator. Will being at home loosen her up, do you think?
TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: I don`t think it`s going to have any impact in terms of an investigation benefit. I frown on the fact she is being released. I don`t think it`s in the public interest to have her out there. It`s a three-ring circus, and it`s only going to get worse. She should be confined, given what I see as demonstrative indications of some possible self-destructive behavior.
LALAMA: Now, wait. Say that again. You think she is a danger to herself?
SHAMSHAK: Yes, I do. She will now be able to get her hands on instruments to injure herself. I think that the evaluation will look strongly at her risk for self-destructive behavior. She`s under a tremendous amount of stress.
LALAMA: Right.
SHAMSHAK: And I`ve watched her in court, the crying. I just don`t think it`s a good idea to have her outside.
LALAMA: Well, that`s -- you know, it`s interesting when you look at it that way because the home situation -- I just keep thinking of the media and the media surrounding her home like that, and there`s just going to be no peace for anybody.
Deborah Jillad -- I hope I`m pronouncing that correctly -- you are president of Accredited Surety and Casualty Company. Now, give us a tutorial, or I`d like to say, you know, bondsmanship for dummies. How does this process work? I`ll call myself the dummy in this matter. It`s complicated. Just give us a little -- you know, a little primer on how this process works.
DEBORAH JALLAD, ACCREDITED SURETY AND CASUALTY CO.: Well, when a person is arrested, the first thing they usually do is call a family member. They appear before the judge and the judge will set bond. The family member will contact a bail agent and begin the process of posting bail.
In this particular case, the judge set quite a large bond and the premium is $50,000, which is 10 percent of the bond. Generally, this just takes a number of hours and people get out fairly quickly, given -- the average bond in the state of Florida, I believe, that we write at Accredited is around $2,700. Thus the large bond like this might take a few days longer.
LALAMA: But explain -- I think what people are confused about is this. You put up that premium. And generally speaking, it`s a family member or someone close to the family who says, Here`s my property. There`s equity in it. Here`s some cash. Here`s, you know, valuables I have. This was an outside party. That makes it a little bit different, does it not?
JALLAD: This is -- this is so unusual. It`s a distortion of the entire process for the public.
LALAMA: When you say a distortion, is that a bad thing? Do you mean that`s a bad thing?
JALLAD: I say it`s bad for the bail profession itself because it doesn`t show what the average bail agent goes through day in and day out, quietly monitoring defendants, taking them out of jail, making sure they go to court. We perform a great service to the criminal justice system. And in this particular case, because of the notoriety of it, because Mr. Padilla`s involvement in it, this one is not giving the public a true impression of what it is we do.
LALAMA: Well, let me just interrupt you because I`m going to be a little bit of a troublemaker here because I`m going to read...
JALLAD: OK.
LALAMA: I`m going to read a quote from Mr. Padilla. Hold on, Mr. Padilla. Be prepared for this. You said, The competitors here in Florida are a bunch of dimwits. They didn`t bail her out and they can`t figure out why someone came from California to do it. They`re just idiots." You say -- You called them some profanities, and you said, They want to try to put us out of business.
Now, let me go quickly back to Deborah and say, What`s your response to that? Are you a little insulted by that?
JALLAD: Well, I know Mr. Padilla. We`ve met several times. And I really don`t want to comment on his off-the-cuff remarks. There are too many out there to comment on them. But certainly, I don`t begrudge Tony Padilla writing this bond. Accredited Surety and Casualty wrote 57,000 bail bonds in the state of Florida during 2007. Had Accredited agents or the other companies that are here felt this was a good risk and a bond that they were able to write, they would have written it.
LALAMA: Well, let me stop you right there...
JALLAD: Sure.
LALAMA: Let me stop you right there because I have to go to a break, so -- but Leonard, real quickly, don`t you feel you insulted the other people in this business in the state of Florida?
PADILLA: I never started or attempted to insult them until they started threatening my nephew and myself with heinous activities of going to their buddies in law enforcement and getting us arrested and insinuating that we were doing something illegal. At that stage of the game, they`re a bunch of idiots.
LALAMA: Well, do you feel it`s kind of "I told you so" now? Are you gloating a little bit that you`ve been able to accomplish this?
PADILLA: No, I`m not gloating. I hope they`ve learned and the next time there`s a bond of this nature, they step up like bondsman, like real bail agents, instead of a bunch of thugs and work that out and put it together. All they were acting like was a bunch of jealous people.
LALAMA: But Deborah makes a good point that there are a lot of credible agents in Florida who clearly thought this wasn`t a good risk.
PADILLA: They don`t know how to evaluate.
LALAMA: Deborah -- well, I guess there`s no time for an answer to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PADILLA: Where is she going to go? The girl`s never been out of the town. She`s never been out of the county. Where`s she going to go?
I can`t find any trace that she`s ever been anywhere except right here and living with her parents.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING CHILD`S GRANDMOTHER: No other missing child has that national coverage. I`m going to do whatever it takes to take advantage of the media. I`ve gotten burned by all of you guys. There`s not a whole lot of people that we trust. People come out of the woodwork that are so-called friends. This community is an awesome community. Everybody else right now, you know, they`ve shown their true colors. And the bottom line is it`s all about Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. And guess what? We have a special caller we`d like to weigh in, and her name is Nancy Grace.
Hello, Nancy.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Well, hello, Pat. I`m very disturbed at what the guests are saying tonight.
LALAMA: OK.
GRACE: It seems like we`ve lost sight of what this is about. It`s about the search for Caylee. And I am stunned at Dr. Leslie Austin talking about how awful it`s going to be for mom, Casey, to get out of jail under the glare of the media. I wonder how awful it is for Caylee, wherever she is tonight.
And back to Tom Shamshak wondering if she would do harm to herself -- hello! Why don`t you take a look at those pictures of her shimmying up and down that stripper pole. She`s not doing anything to herself. She should be out looking for her daughter. But she has not displayed one bit of grief or concern about her little girl, Caylee.
LALAMA: All right, Tom, you want to respond to Nancy`s concerns?
SHAMSHAK: Sure. Good evening, Nancy. I think that the -- things have changed here with her. She`s in confinement. She started to withdraw, indications of stress, not wanting to speak to her family. I think she sees the handwriting on the wall. What happened with the...
GRACE: Are you looking at the screen? Are you looking at the screen?
SHAMSHAK: Yes, I do see that.
GRACE: What do you mean she`s withdrawn? She`s up in her 20s.
SHAMSHAK: That happens at...
GRACE: She`s not going to have a sudden change of personality because she`s been behind bars a few days.
SHAMSHAK: I think she`s much more depressed now. I think it`s set in. That activity happened before she was arrested. I firmly believe that she`s at risk for self-destructive behavior. I agree that she should be looking for her daughter, but I don`t think she will.
LALAMA: But don`t you guys agree -- Nancy, please tell me. You know, you listen to those phone calls. And you know, I got in trouble the other night with her family members for referring to her as a punk. But there was just absolutely -- I mean, the narcissism seemed to be so out of whack, her concern for herself, or getting upset with family members...
GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you what. Pat, the people that have stood beside her are her parents and she cursed -- and her brother. And she cursed them a blue streak...
LALAMA: Absolutely.
GRACE: ... calling from the jail, just complete self-absorption. I`m going to hang up so I can hear Dr. Austin respond to that. Good-bye all. I`m watching!
LALAMA: Thanks, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee is missing.
CINDY ANTHONY: Get off your (DELETED) and look for my granddaughter.
I know in my heart is that I can`t believe that she would hurt her child.
I`m sick and tired of hearing -- you know, she`s already tried an convicted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I wouldn`t wish this on anyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. If you haven`t heard, Casey Anthony will be out of jail tomorrow.
I`m going to go right to Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. You heard Nancy`s concern. We`re worried about...
AUSTIN: Sure.
LALAMA: ... you know, worried what`s wrong with Casey when she didn`t seem to show any concern whatsoever if her daughter was gone. It`s a fair question.
AUSTIN: Of course, it`s a fair question. Actually, I totally agree with Nancy. She`s a great lawyer and she knows when you`re asked a question narrowly, you answer narrowly and don`t elaborate. In a 10-second sound bite, I couldn`t say I think the media attention must be focused on finding this child now, and hopefully, the media attention and pressure on Casey will help prompt more of the truth to come out. I can`t agree with Nancy more.
LALAMA: Renee...
AUSTIN: And it is stressful for her, and I hope that that brings out the truth.
LALAMA: Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, I mean, I don`t see where her freedom is going to make her sing like a bird. I just don`t see it.
ROCKWELL: No, I don`t think so, either. But this is America. She`s innocent until proven guilty. And I can tell you this, that nobody wants to await trial sitting in a jail. You need to be out of jail. You need to help your attorney. And if she feels like it, maybe she wants to swing around the neighborhood and look for her child. But she needs to be out of jail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER: She`s been my joy for the last three years. I just want her back. I want her back now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our desire has been from the beginning, to look at Caylee Marie Anthony. I think that her family deserves right that. Right now the community and nation that has come to embrace this little child deserves that.
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: She is the light for our day. We are focused. We understand that we are going to get Caylee back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to continue to work in hopes that we find her alive and safe and sound.
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER: We`re doing a thorough investigation. I said whatever you want to take from my house, you want to take the shingles off the roof, I don`t care. You do what you need to do to bring my granddaughter back.
CINDY: As long as Caylee`s pictures out there every day, and that picture gets engrained sin everybody`s brain and they look, as long as they don`t give up, she`s coming home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST : I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
And you know, as Nancy so astutely stated, this is about the search for Caylee.
And, Mark Williams, News Talk 150, we haven`t really discussed what`s going on from the authorities. We know that there have been bloggers out there doing the work
What are the authorities doing now to find this child?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Right now, we -- Pat, we have not had any searches going on anywhere due -- just due to the sloppy weather we`ve had here due to Tropical Storm Fay.
But I can guarantee next week`s paycheck that the Orange County Sheriff`s Office investigators have been working 24/7 on this. This is a major, major, major case for them. And they are not getting the rest that they need.
Carlos Padilla has even said he hasn`t even seen his family. He`s the spokesman. And so it`s a -- my hat`s off to OCSO investigators just due to the fact that this is one of the toughest cases they have had to work in years.
LALAMA: You know I want to bring in Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. It`s been a while. We`re talking nine weeks. And every day that ticks by makes it harder in terms of gathering evidence, whether the evidence is credible, whether it`s whole.
Give us an idea of how hard this is for investigators right now.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, I think, as you point out, every day that goes on, it`s less likely that Caylee will come home. But, you know, the investigation has to continue. The analysis of physical evidence is crucial. You know there`s a lot of speculation, but I`m in the business of science technology and generating facts.
And the facts will come from the analysis of whatever evidence is available. The fact is, is that on that stain that people keep saying is possibly decomposition, the fact is, is they`re doing DNA analysis. I`m surprised it hasn`t been done yet. There are several possibilities. Number one, there may be no DNA present at all. Number two, there may be DNA present but in very small amount or degraded.
In the event that it is degraded, there are several different kinds of analysis that can be done besides the usual analysis that is typically done in crime labs. There`s mini STRs, SNPs and there are -- there`s mitochondrial DNA analysis, so, although it`s taken a very long time, there is a distinct possibility that testing is still going on and we`re looking for information.
Is there a match or is there not a match? There`s a lot of unknown information. For all we know they`re holding back. There`s no requirement.
LALAMA: Well, you know, it`s -- it`s great that you brought that up.
Tom Shamshak, former police chief, you know, there`s no obligation for the state to tell us what they have. You know we don`t have to know, correct?
And they could.
TOM SHAMSHAK, FORMER POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: That`s true and there would be.
LALAMA: And they have a very good reason for not wanting this to be public at this point.
SHAMSHAK: Absolutely. They could be trying to corroborate it with other tests, as Dr. Kobilinsky has said. They would be holding that back. They`re under no obligation to disseminate their findings at this point.
LALAMA: Natisha -- I`m sorry -- Natisha Lance, forgive me. I couldn`t hear. Nancy Grace producer, I know you`ve spoken to investigators on that matter. What have you heard?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, right now, DNA tests are not back yet. They did talk to me about the searches and, as Mark Williams pointed out, the weather has broken down. They have not met in their investigative group for the past two days.
But they are planning to come back together tomorrow. Now there were some questions raised about once Casey gets out, if police will be at her home. He says at this point it doesn`t seem like police will be outside her home and indicated, once again, because that Casey could go anywhere, free anywhere. There`s media all around, as well as Mr. Padilla`s group will be around her as well.
Now I also asked him if they would be contacting her and be setting up some type of other interview with her with investigators. He said they cannot initiate contact with her. And actually that has to come from her attorney, Jose Baez. So he would have to say we want to talk, he`ll bring Casey in.
But until he does that, they cannot sit down and have an interview with her.
LALAMA: Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, let`s face it. The last person that we know to have been with Caylee is her mother Casey. In order for investigators to get any further, to get over or beyond or through a brick wall is with the help of Casey.
You know -- so it`s a little unfair for anybody to bash a police department for not doing its job when she holds the key. There is no doubt.
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well.
LALAMA: . whether she`s involved or not, she holds the key.
RODRIGUEZ: That -- they should have thought of that before they charged her with lying to them or child endangerment. That invokes her constitutional rights. Someone made a knee-jerk decision to charge her and put her in jail, and that raised all of the barriers to getting her to talk to them.
LALAMA: What? You`re saying is if they hadn`t charged her with child neglect, they`d know more about where Caylee is?
RODRIGUEZ: I`m saying they made a mistake in charging her at all. They could have done a multitude of things. But they didn`t.
LALAMA: Why -- why was it a mistake to charge her with child neglect?
RODRIGUEZ: What was -- what was the benefit of charging her and putting her in jail? She`s going to be on bond. What is the benefit? What`s the benefit if -- the need here.
LALAMA: What`s the disadvantage? She`s got -- she`s got something to think about.
RODRIGUEZ: Well, you want.
LALAMA: Doesn`t she?
RODRIGUEZ: You want to talk to someone who you`re going to accuse of a crime? Not in our country, not with our constitution.
LALAMA: Cheryl from.
RODRIGUEZ: That`s all I`m trying to tell you.
LALAMA: Cheryl from Missouri, hello, Cheryl. What`s your question?
CHERYL, MISSOURI RESIDENT: Hello. I have a question and a comment.
LALAMA: OK.
CHERYL: First, how -- when did the police take possession of Casey`s car? How is Mrs. Anthony able to get -- find those clothes in the car and wash them before the police got them?
LALAMA: Nikki Pierce, WDBO Radio, give us -- take us back and explain that for us, finding the car and washing the clothes in the car.
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, they took possession of the car after -- well, pretty much after all of this happened. The car was left at an AM Scott Financial Institution parking lot until it was towed. And then Cindy and George Anthony, the parents, were let know that it had been towed and they need to come get it.
When they took possession of it, that`s when Cindy Anthony found the clothes in the back, said that it smelled like the car, which she had previously said smelled like a body, and washed the pants.
It was after that that the police got a hold of the car.
LALAMA: Right. So she washed the clothes and all that happened and then she called the police and said, you know, I`ve got something to tell you about?
PIERCE: Yes. She said that she didn`t realize that the pants would be evidence at the time.
LALAMA: Leonard Padilla, you know, the ball is sort of in your court now because you`re going to be watching over Casey Anthony. There are some parameters for her as she stays in that house. She can`t talk on the phone past five minutes.
What are some of the rules and regulations she has to live by?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, PLANS TO BAIL OUT CASEY ANTHONY: Basically, our rule is, is you don`t take off.
Now let me get something here. Let me interject something here. There`s a $250,000 reward out there for the safe return of the little girl. Let`s - whoever`s got her, drop her off at a drugstore, two days later, call in for the reward.
We`re not law enforcement, we`re not cops. We`re not interested in any part of the reward or prosecuting somebody. All the individual has to say, hey, you know, the mom told me to keep her -- babysit her for a couple months. I didn`t realize I was going to get in trouble. Here she is.
Drop her off at a drugstore.
LALAMA: Let me ask you the question.
PADILLA: Now what was the question you asked me?
LALAMA: Let me just go back to something else, Leonard. If she flees -- if she flees, who is ultimately responsible? And I -- you mentioned to me a couple days ago you had a window to go find her. But I don`t think.
PADILLA: We have -- we have 60 days.
LALAMA: . bounty hunters are well come in Florida from what I read, the statutes I read. So explain to me how this is going to work.
PADILLA: Yes, my girlfriend`s parents didn`t want me over at her house and I used to get over there all the time, too.
LALAMA: I bet. But how does this work?
PADILLA: Yes.
LALAMA: If she flees.
PADILLA: It`s a 60-day -- it`s a 60-day period, and don`t talk about bounty hunters not being welcomed. The thing about is, an investigator that works for the surety that wrote the bond can do the bounty hunting in -- Florida.
There`s no restriction. I don`t know where all of these myths are coming out of the woodwork. I know that the sureties here that are based in Florida are all upset about this.
But, my god, tell the truth. Don`t make up things.
LALAMA: But who is responsible if she flees? Who is ultimately responsible?
PADILLA: OK. Here`s -- here is the chain.
My nephew, Tony Padilla, is responsible. I`m responsible because I indemnified the bond. If me and my nephew don`t pay it, the surety company in Texas has to pay it after 60 days.
Now when you pay the bond after 60 days you have two years in which to get the fugitive back.
LALAMA: Two years?
PADILLA: . and you get a pro-rated return.
LALAMA: Two years?
PADILLA: Two years.
LALAMA: OK. Thanks.
Tonight.
PADILLA: You`re welcome.
LALAMA: . we ask for your prayers for veteran defense attorney, Sandy Schiff, who is in the fight of a lifetime battling leukemia. Sandy set for a critical bone marrow transplant to save her life.
Sandy, please stay strong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: How would you feel about Casey taking a polygraph?
PADILLA: There`s only one condition that she would probably accept is it under, and that was if her and the polygrapher who was hired by her attorney were in a room and nobody was there and nobody knew that she took the polygraph and if it came up negative, she didn`t do anything with it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
We know now that Casey will be free, for lack of a better term, under, you know, house confinement, so to speak, beginning tomorrow. But we haven`t talked about something equally important. That`s an arraignment that`s also scheduled for tomorrow.
Mark Williams, what is expected to happen? I believe in Florida law, for -- even for a felony, you don`t have to be there, isn`t that correct?
WILLIAMS: Yes, boy, you hit that nail on the head, Pat. The deal is she does not have to be her. Her attorney or somebody who represents her must be in the courtroom tomorrow at 8:45 a.m. Eastern.
Here`s the other thing. Her attorney, Jose Baez, has already submitted a not-guilty plea in writing. So this is just a formality we`re going to see tomorrow in Orange County Circuit Court.
LALAMA: Leonard, for the -- very, very quickly, I want to get to more callers. Now what you posted this premium for is only relative to the child neglect charges. Am I right?
PADILLA: Correct.
LALAMA: If something else should happen, it`s a new ball of wax.
PADILLA: It`s a new ball game.
LALAMA: OK.
PADILLA: New ball game.
LALAMA: All right. Cheryl from Missouri, hello, Cheryl. Sorry. Kathy in Florida. Hello, Kathy.
KATHY, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi.
LALAMA: Hi. What`s your question, Kathy?
KATHY: I`m wondering what happens to Mr. Padilla`s money if she commits or attempts to commit suicide.
LALAMA: Interesting question.
Mr. Padilla, did you hear that question?
PADILLA: If she was to attempt to commit suicide, we would not want to be responsible for her. She would go back. My nephew would surrender her back to custody of the jail. If she commits suicide, as long as you got proof that`s what took place, the court exonerates the bond.
LALAMA: All right, Renee Rockwell, I have a question for you. This arraignment tomorrow, we know it`s relevant to the child neglect. But we also know there`s a lot of anticipation about the chance for more charges.
Is it possible that the state would use this courtroom as a forum to say, guess what, your honor, we have a case, a bigger case?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s always possible for a prosecutor to add charges. But since the arraignment has been waived -- and let`s not forget, all the arraignment is, is the state of Florida, in this instance, she can -- through her attorney -- ask that the charges be formerly read.
I often see that waived. This is -- in this case it`s been waived. She`s not even going to be there, Pat, more than likely. So this is not going to be the place for him to pull something out of the hat as a prosecutor.
If he was going to add charges, I would think a warrant would be issued and they would put their hands on her first before anything else got out.
LALAMA: Tom Shamshak, former police chief, do you see this as an opportunity for the state? We haven`t heard anything about the testing, the forensics testing. We don`t know where they are in the investigation.
Could they have been holding everything close to the vest to use this as their opportunity?
SHAMSHAK: They could. Tomorrow will be the deciding factor here. We`ll have to wait and see what happens in court or days later. They could have something up their sleeve.
LALAMA: You know, I want to go back to Leslie Austin, because I think there`s something really important. And that`s this history of lying. I don`t know whether this woman is guilty of murder or even child neglect.
But I do know that she is an habitual liar. Her friends have said it. I`ve got a whole list -- you know friends she`s made up that nobody can find, you know, nannies, where I worked. Oh gee, I didn`t work there.
This is so important to the process of finding the truth. Why does anybody think that this woman is suddenly going to be all about the truth in?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I don`t know. I don`t know that she will. And since we don`t actually know what the real truth is, it`s very hard to say. I do think that when she talks, she contradicts herself, and it looks very bad for her. And I wish that whatever the truth were we would focus on finding Caylee.
The forensics are important. The fact it`s been raining and it may destroy evidence is important. And we really need to keep focusing on that and let the police do what they need to do.
LALAMA: You brought up a good point.
Lawrence Kobilinsky, what about the rain and the storms? Do they play any role into any kind of evidence that might be out there?
KOBILINSKY: Well, certainly. Evidence that is left exposed to the environment can suffer all types of insults, rain just being one of them. It does create an issue, and hopefully they have protected whatever evidence they have.
Now, if there`s something else out there that they don`t know about, there`s just nothing they can do.
LALAMA: Another call. We have Joann in Toronto, Canada. Hello, Joann, what`s your question?
JOANN, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Yes. I have a question and I have a comment. And I think the question I had was answered by your previous caller. If she commits suicide -- do you remember little Trenton Duckett that was missing.
LALAMA: Right.
JOANN: . in Leesburg?
LALAMA: Yes.
JOANN: She is -- the mother committed suicide after a meeting or an interview with Nancy Grace. She took.
LALAMA: Uh-huh, and what is your question?
JOANN: She took the secret to the grave. My question is, we hope and pray that Case -- no, Caylee is found alive. Now -- and well. If she is, will she be returned to that unfit woman?
LALAMA: Well, that`s a really, really good question. Who would like to take that one on?
Hugo Rodriguez, what do you think? Obviously not.
RODRIGUEZ: I doubt it -- I doubt very seriously. But let me just raise something that I`m so glad Mr. Padilla brought up, the $250,000 reward that`s out there.
Any one who has any information should contact a competent criminal defense lawyer and discuss with them, not getting the $250,000, but how the legal means of returning this little girl back to authorities and protecting that individual.
And if I can get that message out, I would tell them, contact a lawyer because you can do that. You can be protected and this little girl can be returned.
LALAMA: Natisha Lance, Nancy Grace producer, what kind of feedback are the people getting who have raised this money for a reward?
LANCE: Well, they`re not getting any negative feedback. That`s for sure. They are just being looked at as good Samaritans and people who are trying to help find Caylee and bring her home.
LALAMA: But there hasn`t been -- I mean there has not been a lot of feedback in terms of tips, people with ideas of where Caylee may be.
LANCE: Well, they are getting tips that are coming in daily but nothing that has been credible. A lot of various tips they turned over to police and the police are following up on the ones that they feel are credible.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Can we talk to you for a moment, Cindy?
CINDY: No. No.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you expect that she`ll get out of jail today?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LALAMA: Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
We know Casey Anthony will get out of jail tomorrow. And, you know, Leonard, a lot of people ask me, you uprooted your life, basically coming from Sacramento down to Florida, where you will do this round the clock protection. Who`s paying you?
PADILLA: This is my life.
LALAMA: But somebody has to pay you.
PADILLA: When people ask me -- well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I make a lot of money chasing fugitives. I can spend some on a.
LALAMA: All right. Are you doing this one for free? Are you doing this pro bono?
PADILLA: Oh, yes, yes.
LALAMA: You`re getting no money. Some people have also said that you`re taping a TV show and doing this for your TV show. You`ve denied it.
PADILLA: No. No.
LALAMA: . but there are people who claim they`ve seen video cameras around while you`re out there.
PADILLA: Yes. There`s about 50 I`m on it at the jail today.
LALAMA: But do you personally have your own videographer, taping what you`re doing?
PADILLA: No. No. My -- there`s a friend of mine -- my son had a friend in high school that now lives out here, and he came out and he says, hey, do you mind if I shoot some film of you? But it wasn`t with a -- you know he`s just a friend of my son`s, you know. He wasn`t even out there today.
LALAMA: So this definitely isn`t for your TV show.
PADILLA: No, no. Absolutely not.
LALAMA: All right. Well, will you be there tomorrow at her home when she goes home? Will you personally be there?
PADILLA: I -- I don`t know. I think I will be at the jail for security purposes, but I don`t know that, you know -- I don`t plan on being at the house unless the mom says, I want you to come in and talk to me or something like that. But other than that, I`ve got some other things I`ve got to do.
LALAMA: Well, Leonard, I really hope that somehow you can get Casey Anthony to help the rest of the world find her beautiful, little girl. And that`s really the bottom line.
PADILLA: Yes, yes.
LALAMA: . for all of us.
PADILLA: Yes. Yes.
LALAMA: OK.
PADILLA: Yes.
LALAMA: Thank you so much.
Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Private First Class Patrick Miller, 23, from Newport Ritchey, Florida, killed in Iraq. Lost his life just weeks before he was due to return home to marry his high school sweetheart. A USF grad, he loved football.
He leaves behind parents Kim and Patrick, brothers Michael and Taylor, and his fiancee, Tara.
Patrick Miller, a true American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us. I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy.
Nancy, thanks for weighing in tonight. Appreciate it. And thanks for the opportunity.
See you tomorrow night 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern. Until then, have a great evening.
END
