Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Report Lab Says Dead Body Was in Tot Mom`s Car Trunk
Aired August 27, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Explosive developments in the case that all of America is watching. And unfortunately, it appears to be sad news. Tonight, stunning new forensic information just in as police investigate the disappearance of that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee, last seen with her mother, Casey. Little Caylee has been missing, as you probably know, for 10 long weeks.
A huge bombshell tonight as we go to broadcast. We learn air samples taken from Casey Anthony`s car trunk confirm human decomposition. This bombshell now backs a frantic 911 call made by the toddler`s grandmother, Cindy, saying that her daughter, Casey`s, car smelled like a dead body. And Cadaver dogs also hit on Casey Anthony`s car trunk.
As these shocking results surface, we learn an immunity deal is now on the table, authorities reportedly giving Casey Anthony until next Tuesday to give up key information that would help investigators find Caylee, all in exchange for a limited immunity. The clock now ticking. but will this be the big break we`ve been waiting for in the search for Caylee? Just hours ago, investigators meet with Casey Anthony at her lawyer`s office. But tonight, still no sign of 3-year-old Caylee. And the big question remains, Where is this little girl?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking developments just revealed in the case of missing 3-year-old toddler Caylee Anthony. Results from the lab known as the "body farm" reveal that a body was decomposing in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. After waiting for weeks and weeks, these are reportedly the first test results showing that a dead body was in tot mom Casey Anthony`s vehicle.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: WKMG, the CNN affiliate in Orlando, also reporting that the state attorney`s office has offered Casey some form of limited immunity, the state attorney`s not confirming that the immunity deal was offered, but saying Anthony was invited to their office to shed light on the disappearance of Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, bombshell after bombshell emerging in the search for a 3- year-old Florida girl, Caylee Anthony. And now shocking and really disturbing forensic results.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news released moments ago regarding the disappearance of 3-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Some of the lab test results on Casey Anthony`s vehicle are back, and it`s not good news for 22-year-old tot mom. The station claims that the University of Tennessee`s "body farm" laboratory discovered evidence that a body was decomposing in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. And she just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her myself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Anthony family meanwhile has maintained that the smell in the car was due to rotting pizza and cleaning fluid left in the hot car.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots and stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell alone is a good indication that it was not some type of pizza or food material. But this evidence certainly adds very good credibility to the fact that this is consistent with human remains.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace, with breaking news. The stunning developments are also quite heart-wrenching. Air samples from the trunk of Casey`s car reportedly reveal human decomposition.
For the very latest on this serious development, let`s go straight out to Jessica D`Onofrio, a reporter for CNN affiliate WKMG. Jessica, what is the very latest on these air sample results?
JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, sources close to the investigation told me today that, of course, as you`ve been reporting, the results are back from the University of Tennessee`s body farm. That is a place where there are known to be experts on this kind of stuff. They have bodies scattered in different positions across a field in various stages of decomposition. And they`ve come back with their results, their preliminary results about these air samples that the Orange County sheriff`s office sent to them weeks ago, they took from Casey Anthony`s trunk.
Those air samples are returned, and from what we understand right now, as you`ve been reporting, as we`ve been reporting all afternoon and evening, that there was an indication that there was a decomposing body in the trunk of her car.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s another way of saying a dead body in the trunk of the car. Mark Williams, news director WNDB Newstalk 1150, you have been covering this case from the very start. This is obviously sad, heart- wrenching news. The whole country has been rooting for this gorgeous little girl to be found alive. And the obvious implication, but I think we need to state it, is that it`s much more likely now that this little girl, Caylee, is not alive.
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, one of the developments this afternoon, Jane, was the fact that investigators -- John Allen (ph) -- Sergeant John Allen with the Orange County sheriff`s office, showed up at the attorney`s office, Jose Baez`s office in Kissimmee this afternoon. He was followed by three of his colleagues. There they met with Cindy Anthony, Casey`s mother, for a while. Casey showed up for just a short period of time. She left just before 3:00 o`clock Eastern. The investigators then left around 5:00 o`clock Eastern.
And what this leads to, Jane, who knows? I mean, they`re waiting -- they have these preliminary results back right now. They got them about 3:00 o`clock this afternoon. But now I think they`re waiting for the DNA tests to come in from the FBI and the FDLE to really confirm what the body farm has told them in their preliminary testing. And from that point on, you know, your imagination can only run wild. Could there be a murder indictment? Was this an accident? Could there be some leniency in this case? Jane, who knows?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter CNN affiliate WKMG, when we say the results are in showing human decomposition, i.e., a dead body, there is no identity attached to that human decomposition, is there.
D`DONOFRIO: That`s correct, Jane, because we are still waiting for those DNA results. Those were sent off to the FBI. Those are going to be from hair samples that were taken out of the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. So we`re still waiting back to hear about who those could be linked to. A lot of people are worried, of course, that that could be the 3-year-old girl. Of course, a lot of people are hoping that`s not the case. But we`re not sure right now if those results have been returned and the sheriff`s office is just holding them, or if they haven`t been returned yet and we have yet to hear about what their results are.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to the experts now. We have board- certified forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Arnall with us. Dr. Arnall, until this case, actually, I had never heard of air samples being tested for human decomposition. Is this a new technology, and is it a reliable technology?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It`s a new technology. The scientists at the University of Tennessee have published the results in scientific journals. And they`ve collected the air over decomposing bodies and they`ve characterized the compounds that one finds in that air. They`ve taken that air and they`ve put it through a relatively well established technology. That`s gas chromatography. But the new technology that they`ve brought to bear is they`ve characterized the specific compounds that are found next to a decomposing dead human body.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. And as we explore this, we have to dovetail it with another major development. Mark Williams, news director WNDB, this offer of limited immunity to Casey in exchange for what? Tell us all about that because these are connected.
WILLIAMS: Well, yes. And apparently, she visited the state attorney`s office, the office of Lawson Lamar (ph) here in Orlando. And there`s a couple of different -- they`re not confirming anything, of course. But there`s a couple of different stories out there right now. One of them is she has until close of business tomorrow afternoon to say it was an accident, and they go on their merry way. Of course, you`re saying that she has until next week. And the state attorney`s office still not confirming nor denying the report that she could be offered immunity. And of course, a lot of people have said this may be just a horrible accident and that that`s why they`re offering the immunity.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s bring in the lawyers -- boy, do we need them tonight -- Doug Burns and Renee Rockwell. Doug, let`s start with you. Let`s talk about these air samples. Do you think they will end up being admissible in court, or will they be more like a polygraph, where it may indicate something but it`s not reliable enough to be admissible in court?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, that`s a good point. I think it`s going to boil down to the use of experts. In other words, Jane, they`ll prepare an expert report, they`ll give it to the other side. The other side will have an opportunity to have their own expert look at it and analyze it. It`s hard to say definitively. It`ll be up to the judge. I mean, if it`s a brand-new technology, maybe not. But I think it probably would be admissible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Renee Rockwell, we`ve all covered these major cases where the big high-powered defense teams argue "Garbage in, garbage out." Imagine trying to establish a chain of custody for a jar of air. I mean, how could you prove that this air came from that particular trunk?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, to some jurors, it might sound a little bit like hocus pocus, and especially since it`s brand-new. I wouldn`t go on that alone. First you have to find out that somebody died. Then you have to find out who did it. So Jane, we`re a little bit far afield at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you the big question. Is this enough to prosecute for murder, or do we still have to wait for the DNA test results to come back with an identity to attach to the DNA, to then match up with the air sample?
ROCKWELL: Well, one thing that the world needs to know is you can absolutely charge someone with murder without having a body. But you have to prove that there was at least a homicide, and I think that the authorities would wait to prove that that was at least Casey`s DNA. Not to mean that it was a homicide, it could still be an accident. And we`ll be looking to se what happens in this immunity deal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Doug, how does this dovetail with the immunity deal? And the clock is ticking. The latest word we`ve gotten is that she has until Tuesday. They extended it. Why would they extend it? And what do you think they`re offering her in exchange for giving them information that will lead to Caylee`s whereabouts?
BURNS: The critical word that everybody has used tonight, Jane, is limited immunity. And what that means in simple English is they will not use the words that she utters to them in court. They agree to that. However, they do not agree that they will never prosecute her.
What I suspect is going on -- first of all, your first question is a good one. Why are they extending it? I think because, obviously, because they really need it and so they`re willing to extend it. But I think the reality of it is, is that at this point, with the pieces of the puzzle sadly falling into place the way they are -- and I think we all know -- I mean, they want to hear that this was an accident and that she panicked and covered it up, which I think is a pretty strong likelihood.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, two of her friends said that they thought she didn`t have the capacity to be malicious enough to do anything intentional to her daughter, but that they thought it was probably an accident and then she, quote, "freaked out," and did something to cover it up.
Donald Schweitzer, former detective, Santa Ana PD, how does this limited immunity work? I mean, we saw that -- the lead investigator going to visit the lawyers today. There`s a flurry of activity. Do they hand a piece of paper or do they walk in, like they do in the movies, and say, Hey, make a deal with us, you better start singing like a canary right now?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: It`s a very formal procedure. There are papers that are signed. The case goes before the judge. The judge makes sure that the person is entering into the agreement knowingly and intelligently. But it`s usually not a good idea for the prosecution because that person keeps speaking and speaking. It`s hard to tell what they`re relying on when they go to trial. So limited immunity is not always the favorite tool.
It tells me that they`re giving her a break and probably because they just want to put this case to rest. They want to -- they want to -- you know, (INAUDIBLE) the investigation to move on, is what it seems like to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have with us tonight Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped get Casey Anthony out of jail, who has since said right here on our broadcast that if he knew then what he knows now, after the 400 pages of documents that were released, he would not have bailed Casey out.
Your reaction tonight to this latest development, that evidence of a dead body in the trunk of the car has now been found.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Very sad, and my feelings for the grandparents are -- you cannot imagine how the grandparents are going to feel. I know that this afternoon, when I heard it, her mother, Casey`s mother, was en route to the house where Casey was with the -- with the family -- with Casey`s attorney. But George, Caylee`s grandfather, had not arrived yet. And I can only imagine that it`s going to just totally tear him up. It`s just a terrible thing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you`re the man who got her out of jail. She was in isolation for more than 35 days in jail. For all we know, she might have been on the verge of cracking. You have said, essentially admitted, that you made a mistake in getting her out of jail because thought she`d have a hot meal and a manicure and start talking, and she hasn`t.
PADILLA: Not a word. Not a word. She hasn`t uttered one word in the direction of, Let`s go find Caylee, Let`s look at this, Let`s do that, not one word.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, do you have a sense of remorse or regret or guilt that you got her out of the slammer, given everything that`s transpired, given everything that we know now, given that the whole key to this case lies in what is in her brain and that it might have been more pressure to keep her in jail to talk than to allow her to go home to a comfy bed and nice meals and the comfort of her parents?
PADILLA: Well, you know, you can go -- it can fall both ways. On the other hand, you know, she`s home now. What`s been done can`t be undone.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can`t it? Can`t it be undone? Can`t you revoke her bail?
PADILLA: Oh, yes, sure. But you can`t turn the clock back.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it can be undone.
PADILLA: Yes. You know, you can take her back to jail, and we have every right to now that the new circumstances have changed the terms of the bond.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, why don`t you?
PADILLA: Well, that`s my nephew, Tony Padilla`s, call, in Sacramento. He`s the one that -- he`s bail agent. He`s the one that`s going to make that call tonight sometime.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought -- oh, you mean make that decision.
PADILLA: Correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not make that phone call, make that decision.
PADILLA: No, make...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought the buck stopped with you because you`re wearing the cowboy hat.
PADILLA: Well, yes, but he`s also the bail agent. I can sit here and say, Hey, I don`t want to be on the hook anymore, but it`s his call.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What are you going to tell him? What are you going to suggest? You`re the uncle.
PADILLA: He`s got to grow up. It`s time for him to make a decision like this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But in your heart, do you regret getting involved in this?
PADILLA: Yes. Yes, I do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
PADILLA: It was obviously not the thing to do now that she -- because she didn`t talk. She didn`t say one word to anybody. I`ll tell you another thing. She didn`t say a word to me, she didn`t say a word to her mother or her dad or her brother.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely shocking. The phones obviously lighting up with these shocking bombshell developments. Mary in Maryland, your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I have a question to the bounty hunter. Does he still think that Caylee is alive after all the results?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard?
PADILLA: No, I don`t think so. No. It would be -- I mean, you know, it could be -- right now, with the results from Tennessee, there -- you know, it could be another body, but let`s face it, on average, it ain`t going to be.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) jumped up into the trunk, front paws, stuck his head in, backed back out, did the eye contact and moved to the right rear passenger side, rear fender, (INAUDIBLE) trunk, taillight area, and gave me a fine (ph) train (ph) on alert.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does that mean?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He alerted to the odor of human decomposition.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony admitted to the FBI that when he first smelled his daughter`s car, he thought it was the odor of a body.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police officers spoke with the facility manager of the tow truck company that was holding Casey Anthony`s car, and he told cops that the smell coming from the car reminded him of the smell from another car where a man committed suicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. More bombshells tonight, stunning word now that air samples reveal there was a decomposing human body, which means a dead body, inside the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. This is the mother of that gorgeous little toddler, Caylee, who has been missing for 10 weeks now. The news comes as authorities turn up the pressure on mother, Casey, offering her limited immunity in exchange for giving them the real story about where Caylee is.
But the biggest stunner, that evidence of a dead body, which dovetails, Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter for CNN affiliate WKMG, with what the tow truck driver said, with what Cindy, Casey`s mother, originally said, and with the cadaver dogs.
D`ONOFRIO: I mean, we`ve been waiting for this for a long time now because there`s been so much dispute over this. I mean, we`ve been talking about Cindy Anthony, and you know, her coming out and saying, Oh, no, it was rotten pizza in the trunk, that`s what the smell was from. And then just a couple weeks later, the sheriff`s office releases those 911 tapes and you hear a totally different story. You hear Cindy Anthony on the phone screaming, It smells like a dead body in this trunk. So we`ve been waiting now to hear what these results were going to be.
And now the University of Tennessee, which has a body farm there -- and they are experts at this -- they have returned these preliminary results. And you know, what they`re indicating is that there was a decomposing body in that trunk. Again, these are preliminary results. What I do understand from my sources close to the investigation is that they are going to try and do some more testing to solidify these results, and you know, dot their I`s and cross their T`s on all of this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do we have any idea when the DNA with the identity would come back to match up with these air samples? We`ve been waiting forever.
D`ONOFRIO: Right. Still waiting on that right now. They were sent out to the FBI. They`re processing those lab results. So you know, we`re waiting on pins and needles to find out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an overpowering smell (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first glance, you thought this may be the smell of a body or decomposition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a possibility, yes. I mean, it`s a possibility. I mean, maybe my daughter ran over something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time you saw Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know for a fact it`s June 15.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the 15th, she told me at that time, I have not seen my daughter in 31 days.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Will Casey Anthony take the limited immunity deal and lead cops to her child now that the first forensic results, the very first, are in with bombshell results showing human decomposition -- i.e., a dead body -- in the trunk of her car. And we can tell you there is some breaking news just in. We hear now that Casey Anthony, who was supposed to go to her lawyer Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, has added another visit tomorrow.
So Renee Rockwell, is she hashing out a deal, do you think, with her attorney?
ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy -- not Nancy, but Jane -- I would think that that`s what`s going on. And don`t forget, they know a lot more than we know. They may have some test results. They may think that the child is dead but not necessarily know who killed the child. So I think the smartest move is the move she`s making, and that`s to go cut a deal.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Doug Burns, with all the evidence coming in, with this hard evidence showing a dead body, why are they offering a deal? Why don`t they just go for the evidence they`ve got?
BURNS: Well, because I think, as you framed it out, Jane, I mean, there`s a huge distinction between a dead body, per se, and proof that somebody killed the person, as opposed to an accident. I think what`s really swirling around -- and I`m speculating -- is the notion that the prosecutors -- and I was one for nine years -- are comfortable enough that it might have been an accident that they`re willing to do this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They are saying that in the trunk of the car.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. It smelled so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: To Tracy Sargent -- she`s here with her detection dog, Cinco, they`re both from Homeland Security.
Tracy, do cadaver dogs ever alert on food ever?
TRACY SARGENT, K-9 HANDLER: No, ma`am, they do not. That`s one of the training things we do with these dogs that any distraction we might find out there, they are trained also that they are only to alert to human remain scent.
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong, I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
Bombshell developments tonight as the first, the very first forensic results come in in the Caylee Anthony disappearance.
The world appears to be caving in on Casey Anthony as demands intensify for her to come clean with the whole truth, that as forensic tests reveal air samples taken from Casey`s car show the presence of human decomposition which, of course, is a fancy way of saying a dead body.
Meanwhile, authorities dangle a carrot and a stick offering her limited immunity for giving them information that leads them to the little girl.
I am so delighted right now to be able to say Nancy Grace herself is on the phone with us.
Nancy, what do you make of all this?
GRACE: Well, I can`t say that I`m surprised in the least about today`s bombshell developments. We have suspected based on the circumstantial evidence all along that little Caylee is no longer alive.
But what is the astonishing news to me today is that there is a consideration of an immunity deal. Why? There`s no need for that. Let me remind everybody that not one but two independent and separate cadaver dogs back up the findings of the body farm, back up scientific evidence that there was a dead body in this trunk.
I mean, connect the dots, people. She leaves with her little girl. Her little girl is never seen again. She -- if you`ve read those 400 pages of documents tells people, hey, maybe one day I`ll get drunk and tell you what really happened to my little girl.
Now there`s scientific evidence there was a dead body in the trunk. Let`s add that in with the fact that she has lied through her teeth from the get- go to police and her own family.
This girl was out -- up and down a stripper pole, people, dating one guy after the next during the so-called search for her little girl. You give all that to a jury, you will get a murder one conviction.
And I ask the prosecutors in Florida do not give this girl immunity.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So why do you think they are?
GRACE: You know why? I really think they`re doing it from a sympathetic vantage in that they want closure for little Caylee. They want to be able to give the family a burial, to give them the end of the case.
I mean we`ve all heard of cases where the children were never found, which I think is really the most heartbreaking because the family never, never knows.
And anything this girl would say, are you kidding me? You`re going to give her immunity?
Renee Rockwell, Doug Burns, how can you look at the camera with a straight face? Give this girl immunity for what BS she may give the police to them what happened to the little girl?
I`m not buying her story it was an accident. If it was an accident, why didn`t she call 911 and get a paramedic to try to save the little girl`s life?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But, Nancy, it`s limited immunity, so what that means is they`re not going to give her transactional immunity, and say we`ll never charge you with the homicide.
What they`re going to do -- and I understand your point of view. I`ve been working with you a long time. But what I`m saying is, is they won`t use the words she says. They`ll reserve the right to make the homicide case, but they`re willing to bend a little to find the body.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Doug, what if.
GRACE: Doug, I appreciate the tutorial from both of you.
ROCKWELL: But, Nancy, what if it`s.
GRACE: . but I understand limited and transactional use of immunity.
BURNS: I know you do. Right.
GRACE: But what I`m saying is I would not give her an inch. You let the camel`s nose in the tent, his tail would surely follow. I would not hurt the state`s case at all. And believe you me, put a tap on this girl`s cell phone.
BURNS: Right.
GRACE: . and her home phone, she`ll blab to somebody.
BURNS: But I`ll work right off your point which is that, you know, you have stood for victim`s rights for a long time. You need some closure for the family. That would be the only reason, as a prosecutor, that I would even consider giving any type of limited immunity so I could find the body for the family, as you said.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I know Renee wants to say something.
BURNS: I`m sorry.
ROCKWELL: I`m trying to say something, Miss Grace. What if she didn`t do it, Nancy? What if she`s covering up for some guy? Wouldn`t you want to know the truth? That`s why they`re doing it.
GRACE: Renee, Renee.
ROCKWELL: Nancy.
GRACE: I already know the truth. I just simply don`t know the MO. All right? This girl would sell anybody down the river. According to the evidence that we know so far she killed her little girl.
Based on what we know right now, I doubt very highly that she would go and get the needle, the Florida death penalty, and cover up for some guy. And believe me, he was one of many from what we are learning.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Nancy, you mentioned the death penalty. Florida is a death penalty state. And apparently they have executed women. They`re not shy about executing women, right?
GRACE: No. I don`t want to take away from the panel. I`ll let you go do your job, Jane Velez. And I`m just stunned at the possibility of even limited immunity.
But today, when I first read those scientific results, I don`t think that there was a dry -- dry eye in this house when we learned and we all suspected, but when we learned the truth.
I just hate it for the little girl`s grandparents. I just hate it so much for them.
But thank you, guys.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much, Nancy, for calling in.
And she makes such an amazing point about the hell that Cindy and George, the parents of Casey Anthony, and the grandparents of this gorgeous, adorable little girl must be going through.
And, you know, I want to read something that is believed to have come from Cindy. And there`s controversy because it was apparently posted on MySpace July 3rd. But listen to the heartbreak in this woman. This is the grandmother of this little missing child who, obviously, now there`s a lot more information that points to her being dead.
"My Caylee is missing. Current mood: distraught. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone, and I don`t know why. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankful for all of the love and support given to her, a daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant.
The mother says without hesitation, it will be OK. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning, and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised.
Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?"
You know, Renee Rockwell and Doug Burns, you`ve been following this case. This is heartbreaking for this woman.
ROCKWELL: It is, but, Jane, I don`t know if -- these are my two cents. I don`t know if the grandparents didn`t somewhat just involve themselves too much and obstruct this investigation. That`s my opinion.
BURNS: Jane, I always thought that the grandparents were in a very tricky spot. And everybody said it and they were right, which is that if they know some parameters about what happened, they still have to protect their own daughter.
So they`ve been in a really tough spot.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s hard to lose your granddaughter and your daughter which is essentially what is happening to them.
The phone lines lit up. Ashley from Oklahoma, your question, ma`am.
ASHLEY, OKLAHOMA RESIDENT: Hi, Jane. My question is, if they`ve been holding these results for so long, why couldn`t they have kept her in jail? And can`t they take her back?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to go back to Leonard Padilla because he`s the one who came up with the bail. And again, as you hear this, as we ponder the heartbreak that this family is going through, well, in a way, perhaps this is their time with their daughter before they possibly lose her and she becomes incarcerated and faces more serious charges.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED GET CASEY ANTHONY OUT OF JAIL: If you`re asking me that, that`s a rationalization that a couple of my guys reached this afternoon, maybe it wasn`t all that bad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From June 16th until July 15th, did you have any contact with Casey?
CINDY ANTHONY: Every day. Every day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you not tell the police that you were unable to get in contact with her for an extended period of time?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. There was a couple days where I didn`t get to speak to Casey. She had left me text messages or voice mail. There was contact every day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
Stunning, heart-wrenching news tonight, the first forensic results are in in the case of missing child Caylee Anthony. And air samples taken from the trunk of her mom Casey`s car reportedly reveal the presence of human decomposition, in other words, a dead body.
But, is it Caylee`s? And if so, where is she now?
Again, to Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter from CNN affiliate WKMG, why do you think it is that authorities revealed this information at this particular time? Couldn`t they have kept these results secret? And are they using it to pressure the mother, Casey?
JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WKMG: I think that at this point the sheriff`s office can do whatever they want to do. They could possibly have those FBI results back on those hair samples and they`re just waiting for a specific time to release those.
You know, in investigations that I cover all the time, you see that different law enforcement agencies wait and they leak things or they release things periodically to possibly put pressure on the person that they`re investigating. And quite possibly that could be the case in this case.
I mean they`ve created quite a stir today by releasing this information, by talking about the immunity. I know through sources that this immunity deal has been on the table for quite some time, but this is the first time we`re really hearing about it. And a lot of people are really starting to talk about it.
So I think that in a way this really creates pressure on the Anthony family. It creates pressure on Jose Baez and it creates pressure on Casey Anthony to possibly talk.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Jessica, for all we know, Casey is at home watching this coverage right now, because we heard while we were in the broadcast that she called for a request to see her lawyer tomorrow.
We know she watched herself while in jail. And it certainly makes sense that she`s tracking. So my question to the very patient psychologist Caryn Stark, who has been listening to all of this tonight is, do you think that the pressure will work?
Do you think that this woman who has shown such an ability to remain clammed up or tell lies will finally tell the truth?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, let`s look at her personality. I really do think that this might work because it`s as though it`s up, the game is up for her. There`s no place else for her to go.
She`s a wonderful liar, a wonderful pathological liar. But if all this evidence is coming forward, she may feel backed into a corner. And this actually may do it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Doug Burns and Renee Rockwell -- and I`ll start with Renee this time -- is this really enough to back her up into a corner? These fumes have not been connected with the identity of any individual.
If this turns out to be all they have and they go to court with this, what would you do as defense attorney with a jar of air?
ROCKWELL: No, not just say to a jury that is not enough. If that`s all they have is air and a dog hitting on it -- what I think is going to move her more than anything is the fact that she has an attorney and the deal is on the table.
Now is her time to move while she might be able to cut some kind of deal if she`s innocent. And I`m talking about in the entire scenario. If someone else is involved and she can maybe extricate herself, now`s the time to move.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Doug Burns, OK, there`s a possibility -- obviously we`re talking hypothetically here. She`s not even considered a suspect in this case. She`s only been charged with child neglect and lying to investigators.
But, hypothetically, you could be talking about murder, you could be talking manslaughter, you could be talking about an accidental death. All of those would results in different charges. And the limited immunity offer would probably vary depending on what she says, right?
BURNS: Absolutely right. They want to give her an audience to come in and tell what she knows. They`ll agree they`re not going to use those words. I know I sound like a broken record. But they can still charge her with whatever gradation as you exactly set it out.
And you`re right, and that`s really not a bad way to go. I disagree with Nancy on that aspect of it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Michelle in Nebraska, your question, ma`am.
MICHELLE, NEBRASKA RESIDENT: Hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
MICHELLE: Thanks for taking my call. Why would any kind of immunity be considered? Based on these new results why isn`t the bail being revoked and placing her back in jail? Because basically what they`re doing is letting her off the hook just so she`ll give up the location of the little girl`s body.
It doesn`t make any sense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped bail Casey out of jail, who is, I guess, a de facto bail expert.
Can the authorities -- let`s say your nephew decides, no, I`m going to leave her out. Can the authority say we`ve got some more serious evidence here, we`re going to yank that bail and we`re going to bring her back to jail?
PADILLA: Absolutely. There`s no doubt about that. And right now your experts are basically on the right track. The district attorney wants to take a shortcut, get closure on this, find out if there was an accident that, you know, that she panicked and was trying to be smart when she didn`t have to.
She compounded her problems. And the next thing is they`re offering her a limited immunity.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know what?
PADILLA: Now the other thing about this is bail can be pulled any time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to hold it to -- OK. We`ll discuss that in a moment.
PADILLA: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: To tonight`s case alert. Today marks the two-year search for missing Florida toddler, Trenton Duckett. Duckett vanishing August 2006, reported missing from his own bedroom at his Leesburg home.
At the time of his disappearance, little Trenton described as three feet tall, 30 pounds with brown hair and brown eyes.
If you have any information, please call crime line at 1-800-423-TIPS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: 911, what`s your emergency?
CINDY ANTHONY: I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What is.
CINDY ANTHONY: Get someone here now.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What is the address that you`re calling from?
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Your daughter admitted that your -- the baby is where?
CINDY ANTHONY: The babysitter took her a month ago that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can`t find my granddaughter.
And she just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
Straight out to Caryn Stark, psychologist, in light of these disturbing developments about human decomposition, what do you make of Casey`s remarks on MySpace? "What is given can be taken away. Everyone lies, everyone dies."
STARK: Well, how interesting that she equated lying and dying. It makes absolutely no sense. That she believes that everyone lies, she`s talking about herself. And the dying is like a trail of a little bit of a clue.
It`s as though she`s giving us a clue to her inner thoughts about what`s going on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Leonard Padilla, you`ve been out there in the neighborhood. What is the reaction and the mood as words filter out of this depressing result?
PADILLA: I came direct from the attorney`s office to the studio here, but my people that are on the security are now saying we`re going to have to do something even more to secure her safety, because there`s some type of a demonstration outside the house that people are talking about for Monday, and now the threats are starting to come in again that we were getting that had stopped last Saturday night.
So it`s a -- it`s a worrisome situation. Law enforcement is there. We`re there. But, you know, it`s a terrible problem for the parents also, because now they`re confronted with this, and having been around the parents for 10 days, I can only tell you this.
Cindy and George right now are thoroughly devastated. I mean, they are absolutely devastated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Leonard, I don`t think there`s any way that we can possibly put ourselves in their shoes and experience what hell they are going through, having it appears more likely to have lost a granddaughter and then facing the prospect of seeing their daughter quite possibly face justice.
What a horror story, and our hearts do go out to Cindy and George tonight.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant Dayne Dhanoolal, 26, Brooklyn, New York, killed in Iraq, second tour of duty. Awarded the combat action badge, three army commendation medals. He lost his life hours after sending his last e-mail to his wife.
Loved soccer, playing Xbox and his grandma`s cooking. He leaves behind grieving parents, three sisters, one serving in the army.
Dan Dhanoolal, an American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests, thanks to you at home for tracking this very important case with us.
See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp, Eastern. You know there will be more developments by then. Good night.
END
