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Nancy Grace

Hair Found in Car Trunk Reportedly Identified as Missing Toddler`s

Aired August 28, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight, major bombshells as more disturbing forensic evidence comes back in the case that all of America has been tracking, the disappearance of that beautiful 3- year-old Florida girl named Caylee. She was last seen with her mother, Casey. Little Caylee has been missing for 10 long weeks.
Tonight, the case appears increasingly ghoulish and grim. The much- anticipated DNA results are finally in tonight and it is a bombshell. According to local affiliate WKMG, hair found in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk appears -- and I say, appears -- to be little Caylee`s and appears to show signs of human decomposition. And of, course that is a very bad sign. All indications now point to 3-year-old Caylee as quite possibly dead. This on the heels of air samples taken from that same car trunk that also confirmed human decomposition. Plus, cadaver dogs hit on Casey Anthony`s car. Investigators now set to hand over these DNA results to prosecutors.

The big question, will more criminal charges be next? And what do these results mean for that limited immunity deal now on the table? The state is reportedly giving Casey Anthony until next Tuesday to tell them the key information that would help them locate her little girl.

And is mom, Casey Anthony, heading straight back to jail? A California bounty hunter and bail bondsman say they`re close to revoking the hefty $50,000 that they put up to free Casey Anthony.

But tonight, the biggest question, the biggest one of all, still remains. What really happened to 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually went into the car to smell what the smell smelled like, and in my experience, the smell that I smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fast-breaking developments right now, CNN affiliate WKMG reporting that DNA results are back from the FBI and all indications are that 3-year-old Caylee Anthony is dead. Hair found in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car now confirmed to be that of Caylee Anthony. And a bombshell tonight is the hair sample showed signs of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla told us that he wants to start the process of revoke her bond in light of the latest developments and threats he`s received in the last 24 hours.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: You can get off a bond any time you want. It`s not a problem. I mean, you have to have no reason. You don`t have to have cause or anything. It`s just, boom, You`re going back to jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for 3-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony. Bombshell! DNA results are in. The question, will more criminal charges be next?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After weeks of keeping a tight lid on DNA evidence in the desperate search for Caylee Anthony, the results are in and it`s heartbreaking, CNN affiliate WKMG now reporting that hair found in the trunk of mom, Casey Anthony`s, car show signs of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) jumped up into the trunk, front paws, stuck his head in. He alerted to the odor of human decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hair confirmed to be that of little Caylee. This late-breaking bombshell, combined with cadaver dogs that also hit on the car and air samples confirming a dead body was in the trunk, all appear to lead to the same conclusion, that 3-year-old Caylee Anthony is most likely dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy, did you want to say anything about the new developments?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile, that California bounty hunter who believed he could get mom, Casey, to talk, now says he`s working to revoke her bond. Leonard Padilla says it could be just a matter of days before Casey Anthony heads straight back to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does Casey know that this is a possibility, that this is going to happen?

PADILLA: Absolutely. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But how is she reacting to it?

PADILLA: She doesn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No reaction from Casey about going back to jail?

PADILLA: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. More bombshells in the Caylee case tonight. The shocking DNA results are finally back, and the news appears to be gut-wrenching. For the very latest on these stunning developments, let`s go straight out to Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter for CNN affiliate WKMG. Jessica, you are reporting some ominous results. Tell us what your sources are telling you tonight.

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, Jane, it`s definitely not good. All indications point towards the fact that Caylee Anthony is most likely dead. Now, hair found in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car is likely that of her daughter, Caylee`s, but they haven`t completely ruled out the mom in that case. Now, we have confirmed that that hair sample pulled from the car did show signs of decomposition, but we want to be careful and let people know that there can be false positive results with this kind of testing.

But you know, you add all of that up with the cadaver dogs alerting to the back yard, two separate ones, and then you have cadaver dogs alerting to the smell of decomposition in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car, and then you add that, along with the air samples that were returned from the University of Tennessee showing signs of decomposition, that there was decomposing body in the trunk of that car, and it all adds up to no good.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It certainly does. We`re going to talk more about the forensics in just a moment. But more breaking news. Our producer, Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer on the scene in Orlando, Florida, at the Anthony home. I understand just in the last few minutes, there`s been a flurry of developments. Bring us up to date, Natisha.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Cindy Anthony just came out of the home a few minutes ago. She started hammering in these "No trespassing" signs. I`m not sure if you can see them behind me or not. But she started hammering in "No trespassing" signs on her lawn. She was also in the RV over here that Mr. Padilla has been in with his team. And she came out of that Reverend, and people asked her, Are you upset about Casey going back to jail? She said, It`s not happening. Casey`s not going back to jail.

When she was hammering in those signs, she was also giving a little bit of information, as well, too. She said if she was fearful for Casey being out of jail, she would not have Casey in her home. She said there was absolutely no odor in the car when it was towed on June 30, and possibly maybe a body was placed in the car after that. She said that she even went down to the tow yard today and spoke to the gentleman who gave the statement to police, who said that there was this odor, and he said that that -- he told her, anyway, that that smell did not start until a week after it had been at the tow yard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Natisha, I have to jump in here for a second because we all heard her on the 911 call saying, It smells like there`s a dead body in the damn car. And I think that`s almost an exact quote.

LANCE: She talked about that, too, Jane, and she said that she was just reacting. She said she didn`t know what she was smelling. And come to find out later, she said, it was the rotten pizza. Now, she said, despite all of these reports that are coming out with the DNA and the air testing results that came back yesterday, she still believes that Caylee is alive and people need to be out looking for her, even commenting on the presser that happened today with Captain Nieves, where he even said they`re still looking for a missing person and not a dead person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mark Williams, news director WNDB Newstalk, 1150, you have covered this from the very start. Obviously, we have compassion for Cindy. She is going through hell. It appears quite likely she`s lost a granddaughter, and of course, if her daughter goes to justice on this -- and we don`t know, she`s not charged in connection with the disappearance of her daughter -- she could lose her daughter, as well. So we have compassion for her.

But when she says there`s no smell in the car -- take us through the evidence that something untoward happened in that trunk.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the biggest thing, of course, is when they got the car, you know -- and we heard the audiotape of about the -- it smells like a damn dead body back there -- that`s number one. Number two, cadaver dogs hit on that car in the impound area when the police took that automobile. We have the tow truck operator saying that it smells like a body, there was a body in there, in his impound yard because just a week before, he had inventoried the car in which a man took his own life, which you know his body decomposed.

And this is just a sad state of affairs. Let me just go back to one thing. The information that Natisha just brought us is pretty -- is darn good information. Earlier today, the reason for the "No trespassing" signs is she got into her car, backed out of the garage, and the media rushed her while she was on her own private property, in her driveway. That`s why the "No trespassing" signs went out, because she does not like the media, all of a sudden.

Six weeks ago, she couldn`t -- she couldn`t find a camera she didn`t like. Now she just hates the media altogether. Again, last week, when the media crowded around, she dropped the F-bomb and told her son, Lee, to spray the media, to soak the media down with a hose.

Now, the other information, going into Mr. Padilla`s Reverend -- that`s just unconscionable. Where is she going with all this? And this is me just talking as kind of a journalist, looking at it as a -- from a vantage point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, being a journalist myself, who`s been on many of those stakeouts, I can certainly understand when you`re on the other side of it that you might feel persecuted or harassed when a huge group of people with cameras coming at you, can make you feel very intimidated.

But Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," the thing that really struck me is something she said much earlier today in response to a question involving the fact that the air samples came back yesterday and they showed signs of a decomposing body in the trunk. And she was asked about that and she said, There is no new development. Is she in denial?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, in my field, we call it "undoing." That`s when you notice something about another person that is so heinous, so undigestible, so difficult to comprehend that, in a flash, you know it`s true and then you quickly undo it as soon as you notice it.

So she says the body -- the car smells like there`s been a damn body in it, and then she blames the media for implying that her daughter might have killed her granddaughter. So that is undoing something that she already noticed. She denies, she disavows, she tells the truth, then she lies to herself and others.

Nonetheless, this must be a very difficult situation for her. and my thoughts and prayers really go out to the Anthony family at this difficult time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have so much breaking news to report on this story, it`s hard to know where to begin. We`re going to get through it all. We`re going to talk about the limited immunity. We`re going to talk about, and really dissect, these DNA results that are coming in as we speak.

But I also want to ask -- something Natisha just referred to, the mom, Cindy, is saying, My daughter, Casey, isn`t going anywhere. Well, let`s bring in the people who should know, Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped get Casey Anthony out of jail with the help of his nephew, who we also have, Tony Padilla, the bail bondsman. Let`s bring both of these gentlemen up and let`s get the straight story.

Are you guys revoking her bail? Are you sending her back to jail? If so, when you are going do it?

PADILLA: Saturday.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Saturday?

PADILLA: Saturday. She`s going back to jail Saturday, only because she`s got appointments with her attorney in the meantime, and we don`t want to disrupt that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wait a second. She`s been talking to her attorney. She could talk to her attorney in jail, Leonard.

PADILLA: Well, I know that, but I`m not going to let him have the excuse that, Oh, we had a very important meeting today and Leonard pulled the pin.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, why are you revoking her bail?

PADILLA: Just exactly what everybody`s talking about, the safety issue. Today, not only did Cindy have a problem with the reporters on the driveway, but one of my guys that was driving the young lady to the attorneys backed up. When we pulled forward, he hit a -- hit a cameraman. And we just cannot afford that. Plus, there`s threats coming in. And then there`s -- Monday morning, there`s this massive...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, but you know that sort of thing happens all the time. I mean, Britney Spears could tell you about, you know, running over the toes of...

PADILLA: Hey, I`m not Britney Spears and I`m not going to deal with that. I`m not going to deal with that. I want to put her back in jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you`re definitely not Britney Spears. But you just heard the mother, Cindy, tell the reporters, My daughter isn`t going anywhere. So have you told her what your plans are?

PADILLA: Sure. She knows.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, then why did she say that?

PADILLA: Well, she says a lot of things. She says her granddaughter`s not dead, and that`s total denial. I`m telling you, I`ve changed my mind 180 degrees. The little girl is deceased. I`m old- fashioned. I still believe in DNA. I still believe in air samples. And I don`t believe that somebody else put a body in the car and all of these dramatic theories, you know? I came out here thinking the little girl was alive, and I`ve gotten a hell of an education.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you have. Well, you came out on your gut and your gut proved wrong.

PADILLA: Yes, it was wrong.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s bring in all the attorneys. We`ve got Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney and author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" We`ve got Peter Odom, another noted defense attorney, and our favorite prosecutor, Eleanor Dixon. The big question -- you`ve heard about this DNA evidence coming in. Is it enough for the medical examiner to say little Caylee is dead, Eleanor?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I think so. It`s just an important piece of the puzzle, Jane. You`ve got the DNA. You`ve got the air samples. You`ve got the cadaver dogs that hit. You`ve got so much -- the hair, especially, that links it to Caylee. I think they`ve got enough. And you can have a murder charge without having a body.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, let`s get the defense attorneys. Mickey?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know if there`s enough. I mean, it`s certainly damning, but you know, do we have her pulling a trigger, strangling somebody? You know, all we have is bits and piece of information that`s been leaked to us. We shouldn`t have this information. There`s something wrong with the fact there`s 400-some-odd pages of information about an active police investigation out there with the media just because the media asked for it.

And I got to go back to the bondsman for a second. That is unconscionable that they`ve taken her out and they`re going to put her back in because now they think maybe she`s guilty. That`s not what bail bondsmen do. You`re there to take people out, take the money, and if they say that they`re going to skip or not show up in court, and then you revoke the bond, but not just because you change your mind about their guilt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and Leonard, your whole notion that you`re also putting her back in because of threats -- there were threats when she was in jail...

PADILLA: Right, but...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... when you bailed her out. And that`s why the parents were thinking of a safe house.

PADILLA: Yes. They`re totally, totally compounded now, and there`s a demonstration supposed to take place Monday morning and they`re talking about thousands of people. I don`t need that on my conscience if George comes out there and gets upset. And we`ve seen that he can get upset. The safest place right now for everybody, including the media, is the jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, don`t worry about the media, please. I mean, you know...

PADILLA: I`m not going to run over a media and get sued!

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the audacity of you coming in and saying, Oh, we`re going to worry about the media, after you created this circus by taking her out of jail in the first place. It`s just mind-boggling!

PADILLA: The circus is created by what is happening. The fact that I believed that Caylee was alive was good because there was a lot of media. There was a lot of word out there about the reward and all that. There wasn`t anything wrong with it. There`s nothing wrong with the media right now.

However, when there`s a chance that somebody might get harmed at the demonstration Monday or because of the threats, then you take her back to jail and you reanalyze the whole situation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I`d like to get Peter Odom, defense attorney, in on this because I`ve handled many of those cases and been at many of those situations, and you don`t have worry about the reporters. They`re big boys and girls and they can handle themselves. Peter, do you buy what Leonard`s saying about his justifications for revoking the bail?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, with all due respect, no. I mean, Mr. Padilla, if you didn`t realize everything you needed to know about this case, you shouldn`t have put the money in and gotten her out in the first place. And to say that now it`s a safety issue -- well, that`s really not your decision. So no, I`m not impressed with what Mr. Padilla has to say.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to start with Anjali Swienton, president and CEO of Scilawforensics, because we want to get into the forensics. Let`s start with this possibility that this hair sample that has, in a preliminary fashion, been identified as Caylee`s hair. There`s also the off chance it could be Casey`s hair, even though, according to WKMG, that hair also shows signs of decomposition. Huh?

ANJALI SWIENTON, SCILAWFORENSICS, LTD.: Well, Jane, I haven`t seen the actual report. I`ve just heard I think what everybody else has heard, that the results are back. And if -- depending on what type of DNA testing was done, it could be that the hair is either Caylee`s or Casey`s. If mitochondrial testing was done, they would be the same. But if nuclear DNA testing was done, they would be able to uniquely identify it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. We`ll get to more of that in a second.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: ... that the baby- sitter took her a month ago, that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter`s been missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... inside the 400-plus page-turner the prosecution has against Casey Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of her close friends describe her as bipolar, a habitual liar. Her own mother calls her a sociopath.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She mentioned that she wished she hadn`t had Caylee because she`s young and she`s not able to do the type of things she likes to do, like go out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight`s bombshell developments in the Caylee case. DNA test results on the trunk of the car are now back, WKMG reporting that the hair sample found in the mom`s car trunk appears -- and we say, appears -- to belong to missing toddler Caylee. And they report it shows signs of decomposition. But is that enough for the medical examiner to declare the little girl dead?

Let`s talk to Anjali Swienton, president and CEO of Scilawforensics. Now, what about this possibility of a false positive? And I understand it`s like if you take a living person, pull their hair out and you get some skin and you put that in the trunk and the living person walks away and then you`d still have decomposition inside the trunk, right?

SWIENTON: That`s right, Jane. Biological material degrades over time, so any type of biological stain, even like a blood stain, that might have been made by a person that was alive, if there`s a long time in between the time the stain is deposited and the time it`s recovered and tested, that biological material is going to break down.

DNA testing itself can`t necessarily tell you whether the person was dead or alive at the time the stain was deposited, but there are some characteristics of hairs themselves that can be looked at to try to get those answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that there will be more charges against Casey, possibly murder charges?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know, we certainly hope not. We are preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forensic investigators say they`ve found chemical evidence of human decomposition in the trunk of a car linked to Casey Anthony. And a law enforcement source close to the investigation also says the evidence may be the last piece they need to solve the mystery of Caylee`s disappearance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Stunning developments. Yes, local CNN affiliate WKMG says the DNA results show it appears to be Caylee`s hair in the car trunk, and that station also reporting the hair showed signs of decomposition, which is certainly ominous. But they also add this caveat, that there`s the possibility that it might be mom`s, Casey`s, hair.

Please clarify that for us, Jessica, because unless Casey pulled a chunk out of the head of her hair with skin attached and put that in the trunk and then walked away, how would you have Casey`s hair, plus signs of decomposition?

D`ONOFRIO: I mean, that`s a -- that`s a very good question, Jane. So all of this information -- when we talk about it being likely, you have to add up everything, all of the pieces of the puzzle, all of the -- the idea that this hair came back now, it shows signs of decomposition, right? Then you`ve got the cadaver dogs alerting to the trunk, alerting to the back yard. And then you have these air samples coming back, showing signs of decomposition in the trunk. And all of that added together adds up to no good.

Now, we have some issues here, of course, with these false positive results, and also not being able to rule out that it could be the DNA of the mother. Still all of this is still not exactly firm, but it`s all adding up to a very grim ending to this child.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, seemingly, didn`t want this child from the beginning. One of her friends told investigators that even, recently, she talked a lot about the fact that it was -- life was sort of a drag having this kid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a friend by the name of Ryan. One day he got a call, or at least talked to Cindy Anthony, Casey`s mother, who said, stay away from her. She`s a psychopath.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED BAIL CASEY ANTHONY OUR OF JAIL: She`s unconcerned, not because she`s a wacko, but because she knows exactly where her child.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Court documents also quote one of Anthony`s friends as saying, "I think something accidentally happened. Casey freaked out. I don`t know how she solved that problem but then created this story in her head."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re actually grilling her really hard saying, look, it`s one of two things. You either killed this little girl or something bad happened to her and you`re hiding it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Bombshell developments to the case of missing toddler Caylee Anthony.

In case you are just joining us, CNN can now confirm the DNA test results from the trunk of the car used by the toddler`s mom are now finally in. Our local affiliate in Orlando reporting that hair appears to belong to little Caylee and they also report that hair showed signs of decomposition. Making it sadly, increasingly likely, this little girl is dead.

So many developments. We`ve got breaking news now out of Orlando, Florida. We have Natisha Lance, a NANCY GRACE producer who is at the Anthony home where there`s been a flurry of activity and a lot of attention.

Natisha, bring us up to date.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Cindy Anthony was here, as I said, mentioned earlier, talking about the note -- putting the no trespassing sign.

And another thing that she mentioned, Jane, that I didn`t mention before is that she does not talk to Casey about the case. She says that she tells Casey how much she loves her. They talk about how much they miss Caylee and they talk about all the madness that is going on out here.

But she does not talk to her about the case which is something that Leonard Padilla had mentioned as well earlier before, too, that she has not spoken to him about anything. She has not spoken to her family about anything, but is only speaking to her attorney, Jose Baez.

Another interesting thing that she said, which Leonard Padilla mentioned, is that Cindy says a lot of stuff. Well, Cindy said that Leonard Padilla says a lot of stuff in terms of Casey going back to jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it appears that there`s a rift there now between Leonard Padilla and Cindy Anthony, which I don`t think is very surprising.

Meantime, the phone lines have lit up. Everybody wanting to ask questions and comment.

Lauren, you`ve been quite patient from Utah. Your question, ma`am.

LAUREN, UTAH RESIDENT: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

LAUREN: You`re awesome.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks.

LAUREN: I`m just curious. Do you think, like, unconsciously, Casey was interviewing someone to help her? And do you think this police officer will take a poly?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very interesting.

Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, of course, one of the shocking developments of the past week is that a deputy who was still on probation resigned from the very same sheriff`s department investigated the Caylee Anthony disappearance because it turned out he had allegedly had a relationship with Casey, the mom, and lied about it.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": If Lauren is saying, unconsciously, was she interviewing someone to get rid of the child? Is that what Lauren was saying?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know. We have to kind of -- Lauren, are you still there?

OK, well, let`s assume that that`s sort of what she`s saying. I mean she`s saying - she`s trying to understand the role that this officer might have played, if any.

MARSHALL: Well, I can say a couple of things about that. One is that, if your child dies accidentally, there is going to be a period of mourning where you cannot leave the house. You cannot get out of bed. You cannot talk to people.

You`re in such serious distress and one of the ways we know whether or not someone has perpetrated a homicide is after the victim is deceased there is a relief phase where they are so glad that that other person is gone that they go out and party.

Remember the minister`s wife last year that she shot her husband in the back and then she took her kids on vacation? Because there was actually some joy. Maybe -- maybe the phrase dancing on the other person`s grave comes from that.

I mean I`m not saying this is about Casey specifically. But that`s one way to think about homicide versus an accidental death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s interesting and, of course, it`s important to remind our viewers that Casey is not considered a suspect in her daughter`s disappearance. At this point she is charged with child neglect and lying to investigators.

And, of course, we remind our viewers that she has pleaded not guilty to those charges and her attorney says she is innocent and deserves the presumption of innocence.

You know what`s really fascinating about all this is that there is a very good possibility since Casey watched her own coverage in jail that she is watching tonight.

I want to ask the attorneys, A, do you think that she is mulling over what her options are as this new DNA evidence comes in? Is she doing the math in her head, Eleanor Dixon? And if so, if Casey is watching, what are you telling her? What would you tell her?

Tell her what you want to tell her tonight, because there`s a limited immunity deal on the table.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I know I would say go ahead, give it up. Tell what you know. It`s important for you, it`s important for your family. It`s important for people to have some closure. And then whatever happens from the statement happens. But she`s got that chance with the limited immunity.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mickey Sherman, is the clock ticking for her? Because the limited immunity that prosecutors or the state have offered her reportedly runs out on Tuesday.

But meantime, they`re still looking for Caylee. If they find her then that deal`s off.

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": And there`s no obligation on their part to even extend the deal or even to honor it, frankly.

But what she should be doing is telling her lawyer what`s happening. Not just spinning some kind of a BS story and not keeping silent but at least share the truth with her lawyer and let her lawyer advise her of what roads to go down or what`s the best way to approach it.

Not to lie. Not to cover anything up but at least let the lawyer know what`s going on and let him make the call for her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Peter Odom, talk to her as if she is watching because it is a very good possibility that she is.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m talking to her about how these facts are not looking good for her and I`m talking to her about getting the broadest possible immunity to get the most possible protection should the worst happen and the state is going to be very, very motivated to give that broader immunity because they can`t come up with the evidence to charge her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, Peter, she has spent hours upon hours upon hours in her lawyer`s office, so if she`s not telling which is -- what appears to be the case, at least from what we know, what are they talking about?

ODOM: Well, she might be telling. And Baez has no obligation to tell the public what she`s saying, because that`s privileged, as it should be. But I would be encouraging her to protect herself as best she can, as these facts unfold against her as they are doing every day.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Elizabeth from Texas, your question, ma`am?

ELIZABETH, TEXAS RESIDENT: Yes, Jane, you do a fabulous job. Would you ask the lawyers to explain the limited immunity? If she leads them to the body and then they later find evidence that she murdered the child or desecrated the corpse, or some other felony, how will that affect her future prosecution?

Can she, then, no longer be charged with murder because she led them to the body that she murdered?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s give that to the prosecutor, Eleanor Dixon.

DIXON: Yes, she could still be prosecuted for that, because, with the limited immunity, they can`t use her statement but they can use things they find derived from that statement. So she could still be charged with the murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to ask all of the attorneys -- Nancy Grace, we were delighted to have her on the show last night, calling in. And she said to the state, pull that immunity deal now. You don`t need it. You`ve got enough evidence. Let`s go after this young woman.

What do you say, Eleanor, to that suggestion? You`re a prosecutor.

DIXON: Well, yes, I don`t like those immunity deals. We only use them if we really, really have to and I agree with Nancy, we don`t have to in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m sure that the defense attorneys might disagree. What do you think?

ODOM: Well, certainly if the state had enough evidence to charge her with anything other than child neglect and lying to the police, they would have. They`re in a desperate situation. That`s why they put immunity on the table.

And they`re thinking long and hard right now about giving even broader immunity that would protect her even if they found a body that gave her incriminating evidence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Broader immunity? Mickey Sherman, broader immunity?

SHERMAN: Right, you know, it`s like in the movie "The Departed" when Jack Nicholson said, if you have evidence against me you would have already arrested me. If you could have, you would have.

And that`s what`s going on here. They`re keeping this stone wall, and granted, there was more evidence now that the child was killed or murdered but they still don`t have any hard proof that she is the one who did the murdering.

I mean, you go back to that Bobby Duress case in Texas. That guy was found not guilty even though he admitted that he chopped up his neighbor and threw him in the bay but he told the jury that, well, they had an argument and he was killed by accident.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he was very rich.

SHERMAN: You never know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He had the high-powered defense team.

We`ll talk more about that and the blood stain -- is it a blood stain? It`s some kind of stain, as we go to break.

A special happy 48th birthday to Joann from Trenton, New Jersey. There she is with our very own Nancy Grace.

Happy birthday, Joann.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On July 2nd, more than two weeks after Caylee Anthony was last seen, and two weeks before Casey Anthony reported the little girl missing, Bobby Lee Williams gave Casey Anthony a tattoo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get any sense whatsoever she was looking for a child, who`s concerned about her child, stressed out about anything?

BOBBY LEE WILLIAMS, FRIEND: No, not at all. She was saying something about a new boyfriend that was living in New York or something, living with some parents.

The subject the child never even came up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Stunning developments tonight that point to a very grim conclusion in a case that has transfixed the nation. Where does the case of the missing toddler of Caylee Anthony go from here now that the DNA results, CNN can confirm this, are in. And CNN Orlando affiliate is reporting the hair seems to belong to Caylee and show signs of decomposition.

What is the next shoe to drop?

Well, according to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter, who got Casey out of jail, it`s that is going back. So we have him and we have his nephew Tony Padilla, who is the bail bondsman, with us tonight.

Tony, how does this process work? And you also heard Casey`s mom, Cindy, say she`s not going back. So can she stop it?

TONY PADILLA, BAILED TOT MOM OUT OF JAIL, NOW CONSIDERING REVOKING HER BOND: Well, at this point, really, she has no impact as to what we decide what -- that we`re going to do.

What everybody`s overlooking here is that Leonard is the only person that stepped up, paid the $50,000 and he`s the only person that -- he`s the guarantor on the bond. And people don`t realize this, this happens quite often. It doesn`t happen all of the time like the defense attorney said.

But it does happen often where maybe the guarantor, the bond feels that the person is a flight risk, maybe they`re being threatened or things like that, and they do ask the bondsman to surrender the defendant back into custody and that is the case here.

Leonard is the guarantor. He has every right to tell me, Tony, I want her back in custody, and basically, I have to follow through on that. Until somebody steps up and is willing to take on the responsibility, the $500,000, Leonard has every right to tell me I want her back in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh that`s an interesting point. Somebody else could come forward and say, hey, I`m going to put up the $50,000 for the 10 percent of the bond.

Leonard, is there a rift between you and Cindy?

L. PADILLA: No, no. And I`ll tell you something else. She did not go into that RV to -- Rob, Dick and Bodine were in there and I was just leaving when she walked in. It wasn`t that she went in there, you know, secretively or anything like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So.

L. PADILLA: She had some discussions that she wanted to do with the boys while I was leaving so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are guys fighting? It`s a simple question.

L. PADILLA: No. No. No. We`re discussing the situation, as I see it, and then.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can she convince you not to send her daughter back to jail?

L. PADILLA: Absolutely not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Really?

L. PADILLA: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, Cindy, if you`re listening, you heard it here first.

The phone lines again, are Rose Marie from Arkansas, your question, ma`am?

ROSE MARIE, ARKANSAS RESIDENT: Yes, my question is, if Casey Anthony has told Jose Baez the truth, he has an obligation to go to the police (INAUDIBLE) maybe or the truth and is going to protect her?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, you`re breaking up. But I want to go to Vince Velasquez, homicide detective who`s been very patient.

It appears that the caller is saying, if the attorney for Casey knows the truth and it somehow nefarious and the clock is ticking. There`s -- God forbid, but it looks quite increasingly likely that there could be a dead body out there. Does he have any obligation at all to go to police? I mean he`s her attorney.

VINCE VELASQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: No, none whatsoever, Jane. He is going to work with her. And this immunity deal is, as Peter Odom said, is what he`s trying to work right through. He has no obligation to tell us that unless there`s -- the risk to the general public.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, put yourself inside of Casey Anthony`s head. What is going to make her tell the truth? Staying out? Going to jail? Talking with her lawyer? Talking with her mother? What?

MARSHALL: Jane, she has shown a severe -- a total incapacity to grasp the severity of the situation. She has not flinched. She has shown no sign of distress. So we`re going to discover something very important about her lying in the upcoming days.

Is she the type of pathological liar who lies because she cares about nobody but herself but when it comes time to save herself, she can tell the truth? Or, as I suspect, is she not fit to tell the truth at all because she has no sense of anxiety about the situation or the predicament in which she finds herself?

So even -- you know how some people sit on death row for 20 years and then they still insist that hey didn`t commit the crime and they insist on it in the face -- even though there`s no external incentive to lie anymore?

Is she that kind of pathological liar? We`re going to really find out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Mark Williams, news director, the next big piece of evidence that could come in is this stain, this mystery stain in the trunk, if it`s blood. What do we know when it`s coming in and what it might be?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, you know, Jane, as you know Orange County Sheriff`s Office investigators are keeping everything close to the vest. No word as to when the results will come in. And they have no obligation to tell the media or any of us when those results do come in.

And let me just backtrack just a second. You know we talked about Casey Anthony going to her attorney today. Apparently, there`s a lot of tension inside of the Anthony household right now. You can cut that tension with a knife.

She`s going to the attorney`s office just to -- as a pressure relief valve down there. Don`t know if she`s talking to Attorney Baez about anything but at least it gets her out of house during the day.

She left at 10:13, was back around 4:15. Has another appointment scheduled for tomorrow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh boy, so you`re saying -- wait, Mickey Sherman, does a client ever come to your office and watch cartoons because they just want to get out of house? Because they`re under house confinement?

SHERMAN: No, it -- that makes no sense at all. God only knows what`s going on. That`s a lot of time to spend with your client to try and get them to tell you what`s going on. But I got to tell you. I still got to go back to the bondsman. It just bothers me that at somebody`s whim they can put -- lock them back up in jail.

As the younger Mr. Padilla said, you can lock somebody up, you can revoke their bond, if you have reason to believe that they`re going to show up in court. Is that what the older Mr. Padilla has to say?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, you know, I understand what you`re saying, but couldn`t it be possible if she goes back to jail that she might see -- look around her and say, I better take that deal, I`ve got until Tuesday.

SHERMAN: That`s not -- that`s not the business of a bail bondsman or a bounty hunter. That`s the police`s business.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

More activity outside the Anthony home in Orlando. Let`s go to CNN producer -- NANCY GRACE producer, Natisha Lance, for the very latest.

LANCE: Tim Miller actually was (INAUDIBLE) who just left the home a few minutes ago. Now he just came down here and he is supposed to be helping out with the search. He`s meeting with investigators tomorrow morning and then will start his search tomorrow afternoon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Vince Velazquez, homicide detective, if had you her in a room, what would you tell Casey in 20 seconds to get her to open up?

VELASQUEZ: I would tell her to tell the truth. Now is the time. Enough playing around. There`s too many -- too many people involved and there`s too many emotions, too many resources involved, and this family -- and not just her, but America needs some closure on this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, all of America. That`s a very good point, Vince. All of America needs some closure. We`re all going through -- this is heart wrenching for all of us.

Tonight, let`s stop to remember Air Force Staff Sergeant Travis Griffin, 28, from Dover, Delaware, killed in Iraq. On his fourth tour -- fourth tour in Iraq and seventh tour in the Middle East. He was helping train Iraqi police officers. Awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart.

He traveled the world with his military family. Loved guitar and making others laugh. He leaves behind mom, Christine, stepdad Donald, father Larry, two brothers, widow, Crissa, and a 5-year-old son Elijah.

Travis Griffin, an American hero.

Thanks to all of our guests for their insight and thanks to you at home for tracking this very important case with us.

A special good night from Nicholas and Sara from Atco, New Jersey. And we`re going to see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. You know there are going to be new developments by them.

Meantime have a terrific and a safe evening.

END