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Nancy Grace
Missing Toddler`s Mother Released on Bond Again
Aired September 04, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. Mom, Casey Anthony, walks out of jail free, free on bond again, an anonymous party posting a $500,000 bond, this after significant amounts -- not traces, significant amounts -- of the powerful chemical solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk. Sources confirm mom, Casey`s, computer reveals multiple visits to Web sites on chloroform.
And tonight, grandmother, Cindy, goes on the attack, blasting not only volunteer searches led by Texas Equusearch but also attacks the original bounty hunter who got her daughter, mom, Casey, out of the jail the first time. Why?
Investigators now go on record confirming there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee. Volunteers searching through swamps, through forests and bodies of water for little Caylee. And now the grandparents hire a criminal defense attorney. Why? Caylee`s grandparents insisting she`s alive and likely in Texas, Puerto Rico or Mexico. Hours ago, sheriffs send out a desperate plea for volunteer searchers. Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony, who has remained on jail on $500,000 bond, is getting out of jail again. Two local bail bond companies have combined forces to spring Anthony from her 7-by-12-foot cell in protective custody where she has remained nearly a week, this after police issue a press release saying they have filed additional theft and fraud charges against Casey Anthony for allegedly stealing hundreds of dollars in checks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This young lady, who`s got some -- definitely got a bit of a criminal past.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I want an apology from Kevin Berry (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It won`t happen. We`re doing our job. What we need is credible information, especially from her daughter.
CINDY ANTHONY: I know what I know. Caylee is not dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s the message I`ll send back to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony has been in jail for nearly a week after being arrested on more charges. But now she`s getting out. Two local bail bond companies are posting Anthony`s $500,000 bond. Anthony is expected to be released in hours and will once again be fitted with an electronic monitoring device.
CINDY ANTHONY: When she came out of the jail, she kept her head up high because there`s nothing to hide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not asking for cooperation from that family. I do not ask them for anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony released a statement attacking the very searcher that she called and asked to come to Orlando to search for her granddaughter, Caylee. Cindy Anthony claims both the head of Equusearch, Tim Miller, and the bounty hunter, Larry Padilla, came to Florida under false pretenses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not believe that Caylee is alive. I believe Caylee is within three miles of where we are sitting right now.
CINDY ANTHONY: You guys are going to put Caylee in a coffin because, eventually, something`s going to happen to her if we don`t find her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Amazingly, going on attack, that was Cindy Anthony, Caylee`s grandmother, attacking the volunteer searchers who came to find Caylee.
Let`s go straight out to Adam Longo, standing by the at jail, Adam with WKMG. Adam, she`s getting out of jail again? What happened?
ADAM LONGO, WKMG: Right. Well, two different bond companies posted her bond this evening. They`re splitting it up. It is a $500,000 bond. One company`s putting up $250,000, another company`s putting up another $250,000. And you know, when you talk about who could have likely seen this coming, we did see leading up to today and into the afternoon, all of the other bonds having been posted on the various financial-related charges that she`s been facing, as well as the $200 on the charges of lying to investigators and obstructing an investigation -- that was posted this afternoon. It seemed to all set the stage for this bond to be posted late this afternoon, Nancy.
GRACE: Now -- Adam Longo with us from WKMG, standing by at the jail. Now, there is the possibility that at any moment, mom, Casey Anthony, could walk out of jail. We have heard it`s going to be in the early morning hours. That may or may not be true. There`s always a chance they could try to slip her in or out through a back door. We`re posted there at the jail in case that happens.
You keep saying, Adam Longo, that there is an anonymous benefactor that is springing for her to get out of jail, but yet you also say there are two bonding companies. Which one is it, or is it both?
LONGO: Well, it`s the anonymous party, Nancy, that`s actually putting up the $500,000 to these bonding companies in order for her to be literally brought out of jail. And if I could read for you just a little bit of a statement that we have? We know just a little bit about this anonymous party. This is a statement released tonight by a public relations firm that has been retained by Jose Baez, Casey Anthony`s attorney.
What it says is, "The individual posting the bond prefers to remain anonymous and is doing it because of the belief that Ms. Anthony`s constitutional rights have been grossly violated." So about this anonymous...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa!
LONGO: ... person who`s putting up this money...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait! Wait a minute! Adam Longo, a PR firm wrote that? Are you talking about this press release that`s full of grammatical errors, talking about her constitutional rights having been violated, going on and on about Leonard Padilla? Is that what you`re talking about?
LONGO: That was the statement I was reading from, Nancy.
GRACE: Is that actually from a PR firm?
LONGO: This was penned by the firm of Press Corps Media. Todd Black (ph) is the name that was attached to the release.
GRACE: Well, somebody needs to go back to English grammar in the 6th grade. But go ahead and give me the gist of it.
LONGO: Well, the gist of it -- as you said, it goes on, on several different points, the point I just made about the anonymous donor. It also talks about Mr. Padilla. Let me read a little excerpt of that. It says, "Though Jose Baez and his client appreciate what Mr. Padilla initially did, his latter unjustified retreat has clearly demonstrated he cannot be trusted. Mr. Baez nor Ms. Anthony will work with Leonard Padilla ever again on their case. Mr. Padilla is simply milking media time under the pretense of reposting bond, and that offer is rejected."
It also goes on to talk about the Baez -- go ahead, Nancy.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With me is Adam Longo, who broke the story. Mom, Casey Anthony, is set to walk free from jail again, an anonymous benefactor putting up the bond for $500,000 to set her free. In a PR release by the Jose Baez firm, Leonard Padilla, the original bounty hunter who put up the money, traveled from California to get out of jail, is attacked. They claim he retreated.
With me now is that bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla. Mr. Padilla, my understanding is you decided that your original theory that Caylee was alive was false. You got no cooperation from the Anthony family, according to you...
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s right.
GRACE: ... in trying to find the little girl. And then you made an offer. If you, mom, Casey, will help me find little Caylee, I`ll go back on your bond and get you out. But they refused to do that.
PADILLA: That`s correct. And I can understand Jose, the attorney, you know, posturing. But you know, I have to tell you this, that approximately an hour before I was informed that somebody was posting the bond -- and this was before the bond was actually posted -- I received a call. And I thought it a strange call, asking me if I thought that she was a flight risk in any way, shape or form. And I told the gentleman, I says, No, she`s not a flight risk at all, and I don`t think that she`d be a threat...
GRACE: A flight risk? She can`t even keep a tank of gas.
PADILLA: Right. So she`s not going to run. The only thing I suggested to the individual, I says, I don`t know if you`re suggesting that you`re going to get involved in bailing or...
GRACE: Why you are being mysterious? You`re on national TV. I`m asking you questions. Why are you saying, "the individual"? Who called you?
PADILLA: When I asked -- I don`t know. When I asked the name of the person, he said, well, he`d call me back later on and explain why he was calling, and that was basically the end the conversation.
GRACE: So you don`t know who were talking to.
PADILLA: No. No. No. I have an idea, but...
GRACE: Well, don`t you have -- you`re a bounty hunter and you don`t have caller ID?
PADILLA: Yes, I do. It was out of 615 area code.
GRACE: Which means?
PADILLA: Well, I think there`s a production company down there made a deal with the new attorney. And they`ve hired -- you know, they`ve gone the whole thing, book and movie rights and all that, and they`re the ones that are behind guaranteeing the bond.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Repeat?
PADILLA: I think that they`re behind guaranteeing the bond in exchange for some book and movie rights, or something to that effect. That`s the impression I have.
GRACE: Why do you think that? And of course, everybody, 615 is the Nashville area code. And this press media release, which I might add again, was horribly written, just -- long story short, they`re in Nashville. So you put two and two together, and you think it`s a book or movie deal?
PADILLA: I think so. I did not know where the -- this is the first I`ve heard of the press release. I wasn`t aware of that. But I think there`s something that`s going on, and that`s why Cindy has hired a new attorney.
GRACE: OK.
PADILLA: You can see these things unfolding in this direction.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Jackie in California. Hi, Jackie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I have a question.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A question and a comment.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About the chloroform. Could she have gotten it from her grandparents` house? I ask this because when my boyfriend`s grandmother died, we found a bottle in her house, in her cabinet.
GRACE: How long ago was that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was last year that we found it. And the bottle was from 1949, `50.
GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you. The bottle was from where?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From 1949 through 1950 is the bottle.
GRACE: OK. Because my research has revealed, Jackie, that chloroform was banned by the FDA for consumer use in America back in `77 to `79.
Let`s go to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, a renowned forensic scientist. Koby (ph), chloroform -- you can`t get it over the counter. It`s very difficult to buy on line, although I believe it can be done.
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: That`s absolutely right, Nancy. Obviously, there are uses for chloroform. Laboratories, research laboratories, forensic laboratories, industry involving refrigeration, photography -- there are a number of uses for chloroform, and you can buy it if you have a legitimate use for it. But it is banned. The average person cannot go into the store and buy it.
GRACE: But on line -- you know, you can get Oxycontin on line.
KOBILINSKY: Yes, I don`t think you can get it legitimately because, you know, it`s a known carcinogen. And the FDA and other groups that study toxic chemicals, they`re not going to allow the public to purchase it. You`ve got to know how to handle it.
GRACE: Well, let`s think this through. Let`s think this through just a moment. Let`s go to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. All right, if it`s difficult to purchase chloroform as an individual -- see, we don`t know, Mike Brooks, what those Web sites were that apparently, mom, Casey, went to. But we know she went to multiple Web sites about chloroform. What if, like Jackie in California is saying, she found this old bottle of chloroform. What if someone happened upon chloroform, and the Web sites are how to use the chloroform, not necessarily buying it or creating it?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right. That`s what I`m hearing, Nancy, that she went there to look up chloroform and how to use it. Now, I spoke to a chemist friend of mine last night about chloroform, and he said that it`s not that hard to get. And you could probably go to a college or a high school lab and get chloroform there.
GRACE: You know, another thing we learned as we went to air, yesterday, it had been reported, it had been rumored that trace amounts of chloroform -- trace amounts of chloroform -- were found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. Not so. The FBI says significant amounts of chloroform found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk.
We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, veteran felony prosecutor out of Atlanta Eleanor Dixon, defense attorney, no stranger to a courtroom, Peter Odom out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Also with us, trial lawyer Penny Douglas Furr. Eleanor, weigh in.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, of course, if you`re just building pieces of this puzzle, Nancy, you`ve got the chloroform, odor of the dead body. You`ve got DNA linking it, and you`ve got her doing computer searches. It all points to one person.
GRACE: Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well it certainly all points to the fact that this child met with foul play. It doesn`t all point to Ms. Anthony. And there could certainly be someone...
GRACE: Oh, really?
ODOM: ... else involved.
GRACE: Who else does it point to?
ODOM: How about a boyfriend? How about a family member?
GRACE: How about the chloroform and the dead body not being in the boyfriend`s car trunk?
ODOM: How many people had access to that trunk? And that`s a question the police haven`t asked yet, Nancy. Why don`t we ask it tonight?
GRACE: And how many people had access to Casey Anthony`s laptop with all the Web site searches to chloroform, and who was with the child last? I mean, Peter, you`ve got tunnel vision. You`re seeing what you want to see...
ODOM: I think the police have tunnel vision.
GRACE: ... and refusing to see -- and why is that?
ODOM: The police have only looked at Casey Anthony. They haven`t looked...
GRACE: Really?
ODOM: ... at any boyfriends as suspects.
GRACE: Is that -- why do you say that? Because they have interviewed every single person that she was telling the truth about that was in her life, including the ex-boyfriend, who is extremely cooperative, Anthony Lazarro (ph).
ODOM: Well, as I said, Nancy, I think that the police need to expand their search. This could very well...
GRACE: No, no!
ODOM: ... be an identity case.
GRACE: You said police have not talked to ex-boyfriends. In fact, they have.
ODOM: They`ve rejected them all as suspects. As soon as they deny that they were involved, they move on and move right back to Casey.
GRACE: No. Those boyfriends have given complete and full cooperation. And not only that, today, Penny Douglas Furr, renewed searches funded by the sheriff`s department for Caylee Anthony. Now, how is that police not cooperating?
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s my understanding they`re looking for the body of Caylee Anthony, they`re not really looking for Caylee Anthony. If they`re in the woods, they`re looking for a body, they`re not looking for the child, if she`s alive.
GRACE: And do you believe that that is not cooperation, just because they`re not going along with Cindy Anthony`s theory about what happened?
FURR: Nancy, until they know, I think they should follow every lead. Whether she`s alive or dead-...
GRACE: OK.
FURR: ... they should follow every possible lead.
GRACE: I want to go back out to Adam Longo with WKMG. I want to follow up on something California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla just told us, the possibility of a book or movie deal. Do you believe, Adam, that that`s who has put up the money to get her out of jail?
LONGO: Well, it`s not about what I believe, Nancy. I mean, I`m a reporter. It`s my job to report facts here. But I can tell you that I just got off the phone with Todd Black, who penned that release. I just got off the phone with him just about a half an hour ago. And I got -- the entire conversation was off the record, but I think it`s fair to say, my conversation with him, I got the impression that what his firm does is some sort of crisis intervention when it comes to high-profile cases involving the media like this.
So it would -- it would probably be my belief -- I think Leonard might be a little far-fetched on this. But if he`s still around, I want to ask him, you know, if he thinks that they`re out there making book and movie deals, what was he doing in this case to begin with?
GRACE: Adam Longo, since you said your beliefs are irrelevant, what exactly was the conversation that you had?
LONGO: I was just asking him about what...
GRACE: I asked you what was your conversation, the conversation you alluded to about the bail?
LONGO: The conversation?
GRACE: About the media release?
LONGO: Right. I was just speaking to him about what he`ll be doing for Mr. Baez.
GRACE: And what will he be doing?
LONGO: He`s going to be providing public relations support to him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony was on national TV saying that -- demanding an apology from the sheriff`s office.
CINDY ANTHONY: I want an apology from Kevin Berry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It won`t happen. It won`t happen. We`re doing our job. What we need is credible information, especially from her daughter. And that`s the message I`ll send back to her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... lack of usable or reliable reporting information by the defendant.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember, we had 30 days before we had this information.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been looking for her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we want to accomplish is get to the bottom of Caylee Marie Anthony`s disappearance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Tonight, stunning development in the search for a little Caylee. Mom, Casey, is set to walk out of jail again. An anonymous benefactor is putting up the $500,000 bond amount, two bonding companies joined together to get mom, Casey, out of jail. As we saw last time, even when she was out of jail, she did not cooperate with police, did not attend vigils for her daughter and did not help in the volunteer searches. This as we learn not trace amounts but significant amounts of chloroform found in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk.
You know, Dr. Kobilinsky, it took one of our producers about 10 minutes to buy chloroform on line.
KOBILINSKY: That`s quite impressive. You know, again, my understanding is, is that you simply can`t buy it unless there`s some -- some explanation, some legitimate use.
GRACE: Well, she did have to go through and make a bunch of checks on the Internet, but once she finished making all the checks in the boxes, you can buy chloroform on line. It`s not that difficult.
I want to go to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who originally posted bond for Casey Anthony. What`s your response to Adam Longo?
PADILLA: Well, here`s another one for publicity purposes, I guess, Adam would say. I`m offering $50,000 cash if anybody provides information that will lead us to the body. I`m saying the body. I think she`s deceased. No questions asked. You don`t have to furnish a name, $50,000 cash if you provide the information to me as to where the body might be located.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: We have never, ever, ever told the police, Look, she`ll talk, but only if she`s released or granted immunity. And nothing like that ever transpired. I don`t know where it came from.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are your thoughts on immunity?
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s not accepting immunity. She doesn`t need immunity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, according to documents from the state attorney`s office that I`ve got in my hand, it was him, Jose Baez, the defense attorney, who originally asked for immunity for Casey Anthony.
We are taking your calls live. Bombshell tonight. Mom, Casey Anthony, set to walk out of jail again, an anonymous benefactor putting up the $500,000 bond for her.
To Natisha Lance, standing by at the jail. Natisha, what are the conditions for her bond?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the conditions are of her bond, she has to be fitted for that ankle bracelet once again, Nancy, as she was before. She also has to have that phone line in her home that has no features on it, which is still -- as we could assume, still working at the home.
Also, she has to meet with her home confinement officer. If she meets with her confinement officer, she can`t wear any type of revealing clothing. She has to have scheduled appointments in order to leave the house. These things have to be scheduled before she can leave. And she has to be home. If she has a job, she has to go straight to work...
GRACE: Oh, I don`t think they`re going to have to worry, Drew Petrimoulx from WBDO, about her having a job. What time do you think she`s going to get out of jail, Drew?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WBDO: Well, when we spoke with the person -- the jail spokesman, he said that usually happens mid-morning. So she`ll have to be processed early on, and you know, anytime mid-morning, she could walk out of that Orange County jail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had higher hopes of finding her alive, and that hope is somewhat diminished.
TIM MILLER, HEAD OF TEXAS EQUUSEARCH, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Right now it appears as though I probably need to pull off of this search.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: Tim came out here with the understanding that we believe that Caylee is alive and that we wanted him to assist us in looking for her as a live person.
MILLER: If Casey got us out here and she gave that child to somebody she trusted and will not give up the name and phone number and wasting our resources for somebody that really needs us I feel used.
C. ANTHONY: Right now my gut is either she`s in Texas, Mexico, or Puerto Rico.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need him to stay and after I talked to Tim this morning I think that he`s staying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line is they are going to be searching areas that we`ve got concerns with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things you we want to make sure is that we don`t lose focus on the overall investigation also, which is Caylee Anthony, a 3-year-old child that we`re trying to find.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Stunning development in the search for little Caylee Anthony. Mom Casey said she walk free in just a couple of hours at the very longest from the jail.
An anonymous benefactor has put up the $500,000 bond for her to walk free utilizing two separate Florida bail bondsmen.
Straight out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at jail.
Natisha, has anyone -- is anyone able to determine from public documents who the benefactor is?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, Nancy. At this time, it`s an anonymous source. Jose Baez is even saying that he wants to keep this person anonymous. The person wants to remain anonymous because of all of the scrutiny that has been surrounding the case.
GRACE: And could you tell me, Natisha, what time you expect her to walk?
LANCE: She could actually walk out any minute out of these doors right behind me here, but what they are saying is that they think it will be midmorning tomorrow.
GRACE: And do you believe -- back out to Drew Petrimoulx, standing by from WDBO -- she could walk out earlier. That could that be a ruse to avoid media scrutiny.
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, I mean, I don`t think that she`s going to be coming out tonight. The press release that we got from the jail was midmorning tomorrow. And he said that she would be coming out right out of front doors at the jail there, the same place that she came out last time when she was surrounded by media.
So from all indications she`s coming out the same place as she did last time and media will, you know, be there.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author, joining us tonight out of Los Angeles.
Bethany, to me, the second verse same as the first. Last time she got out, she did nothing to help police. Did not meet with police. Did not meet with the FBI. Did not help in the volunteer search for her daughter. Did not search on her own.
Did not even attend vigils that were in her front yard. Over loudspeakers. You couldn`t help but hear them on the inside of the house.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I know, I know.
You know, she just doesn`t seem to have any of these human emotions that would motivate someone to tell the truth. She`s not scared about where her daughter is. She doesn`t seem to have a sense of loss, panic, anxiety, fear.
She was led out in handcuffs and she did not flinch. And if she killed her child -- I don`t know if she did, but if she did -- that is the most heinous of acts. After that, it`s all downhill from there.
Nothing else scares you, and what concerns me even more, Cindy Anthony, in attacking the searchers, the sheriff, Tim Miller, she is attacking the truth. And if she cannot tell the truth internally, how can her own daughter tell the truth?
If she`s not in reality, how can her own daughter be in reality? The level of pathological denials that I have observed in that family as this case progresses is beginning to rise to the level of Casey`s pathological denial of the fact that you do not leave your child with a stranger and then go out dancing and lie to everybody about it.
GRACE: Back to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at jail. Casey Anthony`s set to walk out free on bond, yet again.
Natisha, we are talking about attacks made by grandmother, Cindy Anthony, on volunteer Texas Equusearchers, as well as others.
In a nutshell, Natisha, what were the attacks?
LANCE: Well, in a nutshell, Nancy, she is saying that Tim Miller and his crew were out here just for publicity sake. Kind of likening him to Leonard Padilla in saying that he had ill-intention, saying that he`s misrepresented himself and also saying that he misspoke by saying that she is not cooperating in trying to search for Caylee and saying that he had promised her that he was going to look for a Caylee who`s alive and not dead.
GRACE: With us tonight is the leader of Texas Equusearch, Tim Miller. And I`d like to remind everybody that Tim Miller is a crime victim himself.
Laura Miller, his 16-year-old daughter, was abducted and murdered. North Galveston County, Texas, back in 1984. She was last seen at a convenient store midday. She was going to walk home a very short distance.
After nearly two years, her remains were found near three other dead girls. And many, many times, he has stated he wished that even just one person, one person, had tried to help him find his daughter.
Mr. Miller, what do you make of these attacks?
MILLER: You know what, Nancy, I understand where the family`s coming from. That`s the worst time of their entire life and there will never be a worse time. And we`re doing everything we can do to find Caylee alive.
And I know for a fact, firsthand, that we cannot get any help myself because the police department had everybody convinced that my daughter was a runaway and she was alive. And unfortunately, she laid out there for 17 months, and I hope that Cindy is right. That Caylee`s alive out there.
But you know what, from my experience, I`m going to look for Caylee because everybody said my daughter was alive also. So we`re going to do everything that we can do. We still had people in the Dallas area.
We`re still working with a company that delivers to all the grocery stores and stuff across the nation that try to get Caylee`s picture out there. Try to get more leads coming in. But until that time, we are going to search.
You asked me a question again the other night and I got a little upset. No, I do not believe that Caylee is alive. And I think the search we`re putting together is going to be the biggest search that`s ever happened for this poor little girl.
And you know what? If something has happened to her, we want to go ahead and bring some type of closure to this community. Right now, we`re thinking about this community. Everybody that`s coming out and helping us and given from their hearts.
And my concern now is, you know what, we had such a positive attitude with all of the searchers today. There was new adrenaline.
GRACE: I`ve got to say -- I`ve got to say, Tim, you have really amassed quite a crew of volunteer searches.
Tim Miller is with us tonight, the head of Texas Equusearch, a volunteer search team, who is combing the area, mostly areas that police have led them to.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Cindy in Alabama, hi, Cindy.
CINDY, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
CINDY: Yes, my question is, with all the evidence against her, why does she keep making bail? I don`t understand that. With the evidence in the car, she should still be in jail.
GRACE: You know what, Mike Brooks, I agree with Lenore. The problem is she has not been formally charged with murder.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: No, she has not been charged at all. It`s all of the theft charges, you know, the child abuse charge. It`s -- she should -- she needs to be jail with the heat put on her by law enforcement.
If they didn`t do it -- she didn`t cooperate to begin with. Let her stay in jail. Let her stay in solitary confinement. You know, maybe she`ll one day crack but I tell you what Nancy, she may never.
GRACE: And back to Natisha Lance, standing by at the Orange County jail.
Natisha, what new charges is she looking at?
LANCE: She`s looking at two counts of uttering a forged check, two counts of petty theft, and two counts of fraudulent use of a personal I.D.
GRACE: And long story short, let`s unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Penny Douglass Furr.
Peter Odom, bottom line is she allegedly grabbed a friend`s checkbook, and went crazy. Sometimes signing her own name to somebody else`s checks.
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that that just shows a pattern of behavior throughout this woman`s life that she`s a pathological liar.
GRACE: And Eleanor, bottom line, if she gets, say, 30 years for these -- all of these charges, one on top of the other, 15 to 30, she`ll still only do two or three years on theft charges, on bad check charges.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: That`s right. Why will the parole board keep her in when they have to keep in the murderers and hopefully she`ll be charged with that at some point.
GRACE: And very quickly, Penny Douglass Furr, what`s the state waiting on, on murder charges?
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, they do not have enough evidence at this point to convict her of murder. And so they can`t charge her until they have enough evidence. And they went to get a hot bond based on these little nonsense charges.
And they got a bond that was outrageous. And that`s why she`s getting out. She`s getting out because they don`t have enough evidence to charge this woman with murder.
GRACE: Very quickly, everybody, we are taking your calls live.
Mom Casey Anthony, set to walk out of Orange County jail. Standing by at the jail, our producer, Natisha Lance.
As we go to break, a very special happy birthday to two Georgia friends of the show - twins, teenagers, Nick and Zach Abram.
Aren`t the handsome? Happy birthday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROOKS: She also said that she on July 15th had received a phone call and talked to Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I actually received a phone call today from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter for about a moment -- about a minute.
BROOKS: Cell phone records say no incoming calls at all on that day.
CINDY ANTHONY: There were five incoming phone calls during that time.
GRACE: Well, don`t you have the phone records, Miss Anthony?
CINDY ANTHONY: I have them. I see them.
GRACE: Well why don`t you release them? Why don`t you release them? Show that police are wrong in this sworn affidavit to say that those calls didn`t come in.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Mom Casey Anthony set to walk out of the jail within hours. An anonymous benefactor putting up the $500,000 bond for her to walk free.
You know, Bethany Marshall, as she cooperates anymore than she did last time, we`ll be still at square one.
MARSHALL: Well, I have a hard time knowing what would even motivate her to cooperate at this point because the type of pathological lying she engages in, it tends to have a life of its own over time. You`ve seen convicted felons -- they sit on death row for 20 years.
Even despite the fact that they`ve been convicted, they continue to lie. This is the kind of pathological liar she is. Nothing is going to change at this point.
GRACE: Back to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, renowned forensic scientist, joining us out of New York.
Koby, I`m shock that you think it so difficult to get chloroform online. I mean, bottom line, our producer was getting it for about 63 bucks. It took her 10 minutes.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, it`s not the price. The companies that supply this.
GRACE: Have you heard of that Internet thing?
KOBILINSKY: Yes, of course.
GRACE: You know, tick-tick-tick?
KOBILINSKY: Yes, I think that companies require that the purchaser demonstrate proof that they`re either an educational institution or a functional laboratory.
GRACE: Koby.
KOBILINSKY: Yes.
GRACE: All that you do is you put -- you type an X in a block and say, yes, I`m 18. Yes, I`m an institution. Boom. You get your chloroform.
KOBILINSKY: Well, it`s a carcinogen. It shouldn`t be available to the public.
GRACE: Should of, would of, could of. Don`t care. It`s in her car trunk.
KOBILINSKY: Well, if it`s there, we.
GRACE: And what is this you`re telling me last night about how it can be a byproduct of -- for instance pool cleaner?
KOBILINSKY: Well, I think you asked me what are the possible mechanisms for.
GRACE: Because you said it was possible.
KOBILINSKY: Well, I -- one of the original syntheses involved bleach and ethanol or acetone, things of that sort. So you can get traces of chloroform. And I`m not saying that`s the likelihood here.
If they really got significant amounts, that would change the story a bit.
GRACE: A bit?
KOBILINSKY: A bit.
GRACE: You`re darn right, a bit.
Explain that, Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: You know, Nancy, Dr. Kobilinsky -- he`s the expert in this. But, you know, just -- chloroform, just like my chemist buddies said.
GRACE: Well, I mean, chloroform is most often detected in movies and in books.
BROOKS: Yes, right, and you know.
GRACE: . where someone sneaks up.
BROOKS: Right.
GRACE: . with the chloroform rag, puts it over you, and you pass out just like that.
BROOKS: Right.
GRACE: That`s what chloroform is.
BROOKS: You know, and it echoes to the theory now, Nancy. You know there`s another speculation.
GRACE: You can actually die from chloroform inhalation.
BROOKS: That`s exactly right and now that goes to the theory now that some people are putting out there -- speculative theory at best -- that maybe she used that to try to put the baby to sleep so that she could go out and party, and then she -- she possibly overdosed the baby.
That`s one theory out there now.
GRACE: There are so many theories about what happened.
BROOKS: There are.
GRACE: To Linda in Michigan, hi, Linda.
LINDA, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
LINDA: I have two comments.
GRACE: OK.
LINDA: First of all, I cannot -- I simply cannot understand why Casey`s parents cannot convince Casey to explain her behavior regarding Caylee. As a parent myself, I`m sure I would try all avenues for my daughter to tell the truth. At least tell the truth to her mother or father.
Secondly, has there been a request for a polygraph to be administered of Casey?
GRACE: You know I want to go back out to Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by the Orange County jail.
Have they asked Casey Anthony to take a polygraph? Or has she offered to take a polygraph?
LANCE: No, offer to take a polygraph at this time, Nancy. Her attorney, Jose Baez, said, there`s no need for a polygraph because she`s not lying about anything and she`s been upfront and honest.
GRACE: Well, one thing about a polygraph if she passed it, it would help rule her out and police could then go on and look more intensely at other possibilities. By not taking a polygraph and it`s actually hindering the investigation.
To Jane in Florida, hi, Jane.
JANE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy. This case is very dear to my heart. I have a 3-year-old and I don`t live far from Orlando. But my question was -- I had a question for the psychoanalyst.
GRACE: Yes.
JANE: What does she think about Casey saying on her phone calls in the jail that she thought that Caylee was close by? Does that mean, with her a pathological liar that she could have twisted the truth and she could literally be close to home?
GRACE: Bethany?
MARSHALL: Well, I think that`s very insightful because the way Casey lies is she picks up on bits and pieces of the truth and she weaves them into the lie.
So when she says they`re close to -- she`s close to home, is she saying she killed her and she`s close to home? Or she passed her off and she`s close to home?
You know, you kind of have to weave that into the understanding of what she really meant.
GRACE: And very quickly, Eleanor, have you ever tried to interview somebody like Casey Anthony that just talks in circles no matter what you ask them?
DIXON: Oh yes. I`ve seen that many a time, and it`s sometimes very difficult to get to the small kernel of truth that`s in there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Mom Casey Anthony set to walk out of the Orange County jail. An anonymous benefactor putting up her bond.
Out to the lines, Lauren in New Jersey, hi, Lauren.
LAUREN, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. This is Lauren from New Jersey.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
LAUREN: I want to know as to -- if the family believes that the little girl is still alive, as to why there`s been, like, no AMBER Alert or anything like that has been put out?
GRACE: Interesting.
Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: Because right now it does not fit the criteria for an AMBER Alert because there is no lookout, there is no vehicle, there is nothing to -- nobody to look for.
GRACE: You know, Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Penny Douglass Furr -- Penny, what`s the likelihood that there is a tap on the lines of Casey Anthony or in her home?
DOUGLASS FURR: I`d say about 99.99 percent that there is a tap on the phone?.
GRACE: Odom?
ODOM: Absolutely. The police are looking at everything and they`d be foolish not to be doing that. So, yes, they are.
GRACE: Eleanor?
DIXON: Well, of course, we all know there`s a wire tap. No question.
GRACE: And you know, bottom line, you can stand outside in somebody`s front yard and get their cell phone conversation. You practically don`t even need a tap for that but you have to go through the same legal criteria to get a cell phone tap.
Eleanor?
DIXON: Yes, that`s true. I mean you have to follow a certain procedure and have a judge sign that wiretap.
GRACE: Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Benjamin Brosh, 22, Colorado Springs, Colorado, killed Iraq.
Awarded the National Defense Service medal, Army Service Ribbon, and Global War on Terrorism Service medal. Adventurous, loved soccer with Iraqi kids, crabbing, fishing, golf and snowboarding.
Leaves behind parents, Jane and Barbara.
Benjamin Brosh, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And our thoughts and prayers with those searchers, searching for little Caylee in Florida.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
