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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Released on Bond Again
Aired September 05, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, with evidence mounting against her, mom, Casey Anthony, walks out of jail surrounded by private bodyguards. That`s right, free on bond again. While a press release states an anonymous party posted the $500,000 bond because mom, Casey`s, quote, "rights have been violated," tonight we learn grandparents Cindy and George Anthony actually sign a promissory note backing by collateral that note to get mom, Casey, out of jail.
And sources confirm there was so much of the powerful chemical solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk, even the air within the trunk was saturated -- the air was saturated with chloroform -- mom, Casey`s, computer revealing multiple visits to Web sites on chloroform. Investigators on the record confirm there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee.
And tonight, volunteers told to search for a rolled-up rug, a duffel bag and bones as the search goes on -- swamps, forests, bodies of water. Where is 3-year-old Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened with your daughter, Casey?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is your daughter? What did you (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I support you, Casey. I support you! Hold your head up high!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony is now out of jail for the second time. She`s a free mom again for the second time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Baez this time had a couple of people in front of him, kind of blocking, almost bouncer-type people. We counted about 20 news crews that were here. There were helicopters overhead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are right around the corner. As you can see, we starting to see the media trucks. So get ready. They are about to pull into their driveway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did confirm that it was George and Cindy Anthony who signed promissory notes with bond companies to get them to put up the $500,000 bond.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony arrived at her parents` home on Hope (ph) Spring Drive to a swarm of protesters and reporters. When I tried to find out how Cindy felt about Casey coming home again, she drowned out my questions with a loud alarm.
Cindy, did you want to say anything about Casey coming home? Cindy, did you want to say anything?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that the last time when she was bailed out, she had eight days being home. We know that we didn`t get any forward movement into to where little Caylee is. After all, this is all about what happened to her daughter. So now I`ll be curious to find what`s going to happen next.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Mom, Casey Anthony, walks free from jail -- again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony is free again as we speak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony was surrounded by media this morning. You can barely make her out there. She was escorted out of the Orange County jail wearing an ankle monitoring bracelet and a T-shirt with Caylee`s picture on it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: We got a notice about the car on Tuesday, July 15. When I finally met up with Casey, she said that Caylee was with the baby-sitter, Zanny. Caylee wasn`t with her, like she had told me she was with her for the last month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During that period of time, did you have any communication with the child?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were denied that opportunity?
CINDY ANTHONY: It was an inopportunity (SIC), or there -- is all I can say.
She was kidnapped by Zenaida, and you know -- and that`s what she`s maintained. She told me, you know, some things during the month of June because she was trying to look for her and tried to get her back herself.
There was no reason to believe that Casey and Caylee weren`t together at any time.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: My next thing will be down to child (INAUDIBLE) things, and we`ll have a court order to get her. If that`s the way you want to play it, we`ll do it, and you`ll never...
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s not the way I want to play it.
CINDY ANTHONY: Well, then you have...
CASEY ANTHONY: Give me one more day.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to our producer Natisha Lance, standing by there outside the Anthony home. It`s a madhouse. What`s happening?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, it was pretty quiet up until now. Protesters came in with signs. As you can see right behind me, they are protesting right in front of the Anthony house. And last week, Cindy Anthony had actually put down some "No trespassing" signs, which they actually tore through today. Neighbors came out, as well, and they were going back and forth with the protesters, saying, We live in this neighborhood, you don`t know this family. And they`re saying, We don`t care. We think that Casey is guilty and she needs to be back in jail.
It actually turned a little bit violent. One of the neighbors took a sign from a protester, and that kind of ensued into a little punching match back and forth. Police did show up on the scene and they did try to quiet things down, but the protesters, as you see right behind me, are still right back at it.
GRACE: Tell me, is there a group that is pro-Casey Anthony and a group that is wanting her back in jail?
LANCE: There was a group earlier here today, Nancy, that was pro- Casey Anthony, and they were over at the jail today, too, when she was released. And earlier today, there was a bit of a traffic jam in front of the house and they were exchanging words back and forth, saying that they didn`t think Casey was guilty, and then the other side was saying they did think Casey was guilty. So it`s -- just as it`s playing out in the public, in this neighborhood, it`s affecting people very seriously, too.
GRACE: Natisha, you were there at the jail when Casey Anthony walked free. What happened?
LANCE: Well, it was almost identical to her release before, not only in terms of time but also in terms of the weather. They did take a few more precautions this time, though, Nancy. They had an area roped off with yellow caution tape because they didn`t want to have a reoccurrence of what happened before. So media was not to go past this yellow line.
And once they did -- once Casey did come out of the jail, she had two bodyguards who were with her, also with Jose Baez. She was scrunched down behind them, still wearing that "Where is Caylee?" T-shirt that she was arrested in last Friday. They got in a Dodge Durango with very dark-tinted windows and they were off to the parents` home.
GRACE: We`re taking your calls live. Out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO radio. Nikki, we had learned from a press release of some sort yesterday that there was an anonymous benefactor who got Casey Anthony out from behind bars because, quote, "her constitutional rights" were violated. In my hand right here, I`ve got two bond documents that state, in fact, the Anthonys, George and Cindy Anthony, signed a promissory note, backing it up with collateral to get her out.
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s true. It does seem to be contradictory evidence. Yesterday, someone allegedly gave at least part of the money, saying that her constitutional rights had been violated. Today, as the -- as you just noted, the bond documents say that the Anthonys put up a promissory note. Now, I`m not entirely sure how that works, if they had to put up any part of the bond, but it`s still a little unclear what the truth actually is. But of course, the bond documents are probably more likely to tell the true story.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Joanne in Iowa. Hi, Joanne.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I was wondering, does Casey feel that if Caylee isn`t found that then, they can`t proceed to put more charges upon her?
GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s unleash the lawyers tonight. Veteran trial lawyer out of the California jurisdiction Daniel Horowitz is with us, along with Joey Jackson out of New York, also a veteran trial lawyer. What about it, Daniel?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, we just had a case in Oakland, California, where Hans Reiser was convicted of murder, and they never found his wife`s body. They just found a little bit of trace evidence in the car. The jury convicted him. And after conviction for a lesser sentence, he led them to his wife`s body. So you don`t need a body to get a conviction.
GRACE: Absolutely not. In fact, Joey, it is very common for murder cases to go forward without a body.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No doubt, Nancy. That`s the reality of our time. You know, unfortunately, prosecutors oftentimes do not have a body in order to prosecute. Would it make a more probable case and more likely case to get a conviction? Well, yes, it would. However, you do not need a body to prosecute, and prosecutors have been successful in past cases in securing convictions without one.
GRACE: Daniel, do you believe that she figures if they don`t find little Caylee, she`s going to walk scot-free on this thing?
HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, there really is not much evidence against her. You know, there`s a lot of problems with this chloroform evidence appearing to magically...
GRACE: Really? What`s the problem?
HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, nobody smelled chloroform. On your show, I heard about the officer smelling a dead body. Thirty days later, you smell chloroform in the car or...
GRACE: Nobody smelled -- no, no, no. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Nobody smelled...
HOROWITZ: You find it chemically? I mean, you find it chemically?
GRACE: As I was trying to say -- as I was trying to say, Daniel Horowitz, the samples to the FBI and the air samples apparently to the "body farm," a very high-tech lab in Tennessee, show not just traces but a significant amount of chloroform. And Daniel, I`m glad you brought that up.
HOROWITZ: I don`t buy it. I don`t buy it.
GRACE: I`m sure you think it was all planted. Let`s go...
HOROWITZ: Thirty days later, it`s going to remain there, Nancy? Come on. OK, go ahead. I`ll shut up. I want to hear this.
GRACE: Let`s go to -- now, that`s a first. I`m going to an expert on this subject, when none of us are. To Jeff Flowers. He is chemical and technical director of Flowers Chemical Laboratories, joining us out of Orlando. Jeff, explain, would a -- just a nose test by a human detect chloroform in the car trunk?
JEFF FLOWERS, CHEMIST, FLOWERS CHEMICAL LABORATORIES: Probably not. These tests were conducted probably using gas chromatography analysis. So no noses were involved.
GRACE: Explain to me -- when you say how significant this is that the air, even the air in the car trunk was saturated with chloroform, what does that mean and why is that so significant to you?
FLOWERS: Well, chloroform is a very volatile chemical, but it is a liquid at room temperature. However, in a car trunk, it`s going to be sealed. It`s going to be not exactly air-tight, but it`s going to be close. And it would be retained on the surfaces of the rug and so forth that`s in the trunk.
GRACE: The fact that the air was saturated, what does that mean to you, evidentiary?
FLOWERS: The question that it brings up -- I mean, chloroform, of course, is an anesthetic. But it also acts -- it`s much more dense than air. So if a child was placed in the trunk and the room -- and the trunk sealed and it was saturated with chloroform from the rag that was used, there would be no oxygen at the bottom of the trunk.
GRACE: I don`t know what that means. You`re speaking to a layperson. As far as proving a case at trial, what does it mean the air was saturated with chloroform, even the air...
FLOWERS: It would be difficult to breathe in the trunk.
GRACE: OK. OK. How much chloroform would it take to cause the air in the car trunk to be saturated with chloroform?
FLOWERS: The liquid chloroform that would be present on the rag would be -- would continue to release itself as a vapor, and that would continue to push away the oxygen from the bottom.
GRACE: OK. Now I understand. Let`s go to Alexis Weed, our show staffer researching chloroform. Alexis, how difficult is it to buy chloroform on line?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: In fact, Nancy, it wasn`t difficult at all. Within a matter of about 10 to 15 minutes, I was able to conduct an on-line research and find chloroform and a vendor that was willing to sell it to me.
GRACE: Alexis, what kind of a search -- did you go to Google or Yahoo!? What did you plug in to pop up buying chloroform on line?
WEED: Nancy, in this case, it was a Google search. And I typed in "purchase chloroform," and that generated a number of chemical and laboratory supply companies, on which I clicked and followed links until I found one that was willing to sell the product.
GRACE: How much?
WEED: I could get anywhere from 100 milliliters all the way up to 20 liters.
GRACE: How much did it cost?
WEED: $63 for the 100 milliliters and upwards of $700 for 20 liters.
GRACE: Would they allow you to take a credit card, if you wanted to use a credit card?
WEED: In fact, that was the only way by which I could make the transaction go through. I needed to select a type of credit card, type in my name, the expiration date and sign an acknowledgement that I understood I was only using the product for limited purposes of research, development, manufacturing, and then I could complete my purchase.
GRACE: To Jeff Flowers, chemist and technical director of Flowers Chemical Labs in Orlando, can you believe that? Anybody can go on line and buy chloroform, a very dangerous chemical solution.
FLOWERS: Well, it`s not just chloroform. I mean, after 9/11, you would have thought that these types of chemicals would have had limited access to the marketplace. It`s abhorrent to me that this continues.
GRACE: I want to go out to the lines again. Debbie in Florida. Hi, Debbie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, she seems to be pretty devious to me. I was wondering, knowing from past cases where people know that the towers are going to hit from their phone cells -- cell phones, I mean -- could she have, like, maybe dropped the baby off towards south, and then headed north in the opposite direction, making calls, knowing that the tower is going north or what they`re going to find, when she`s actually done something in the opposite direction?
GRACE: To Donald Schweitzer, former detective with the Santa Ana PD. What about it, Schweitzer?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: I think that this particular suspect isn`t that sophisticated. Now, she may have an accomplice that`s unnamed that may think of all those things. But look at this woman. She can`t even tell a straight -- or a lie to convince the police that she was working at a particular place. So she doesn`t seem to be sophisticated enough to do something like that.
GRACE: Well, not only that, she had a little gasoline problem, Detective Schweitzer. She ran out of gas. And that is really interesting.
To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of California who first put up the bond to get Casey Anthony out of jail. You brought this to my attention. Her car was spotted at 7:00 AM, I believe, by the workers at Amscot, a check cashing place, which means either she was out there at 7:00 AM or she had left the car there out of gas sometime during the night, correct?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s correct, yes.
GRACE: Now, what do you make of this bond being put up today? You`re our bounty hunter. What do these documents mean from the bonding company, where the Anthony family has signed promissory notes to get her out of jail?
PADILLA: Well, that basically means that two companies each put up a $250,000 bond. They split the $500,000 into two $250,000. And the Anthonys are on the hook for the premium, which is $50,000. And I haven`t seen the documents, but I`m assuming you`re looking at something that says that -- it`s a promissory note. So they have to pay $25,000 to each company when it comes due.
GRACE: And let me go to Nikki Pierce of WDBO. Nikki, is it true that shortly after little Caylee goes missing, that Casey gets a tattoo that says, La bella vita, the beautiful life?
PIERCE: That is true. She got that tattoo. It seems like it may have been a memorial, but no one really knows.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days. I know -- I`ve tried to contact her. Her name is Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. She`s been my nanny for about a year-and-a-half. I`ve been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, OK, which is stupid.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Mom, Casey Anthony, walks from behind bars on bond again. You are seeing a scene outside the Anthony home, Casey Anthony inside the home, a fight actually breaking out between the protesters in front of the home. That is the scene as we go to air tonight. Now we learn the chloroform was so dense in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car, it actually saturated the air.
Out to Michael -- Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver. Doctor, what does that say to you regarding the chloroform?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, if chloroform was used on this child, the child could have died in a couple of different ways. The anesthetic itself could reduce her breathing or suppress her breathing. Also, if a person held some type of a cloth over a child`s face for perhaps a minute or two, the child could actually asphyxiate. And of course, the child could vomit because sometimes the anesthetics cause an uneasy stomach. So a child could vomit and inhale that food. So there`s several ways that that anesthetic could have caused death in a child.
GRACE: Generally speaking, we`ve only seen chloroform depicted in movies, on TV and books as being held over your nose with a rag or something, and then the person goes unconscious. Is that how it works, Doctor?
ARNALL: It certainly can work that way. If the concentration of chloroform is high enough in the trunk and a child enters the trunk, that also could cause loss of consciousness. But in this case, remember that the dogs actually hit on an area of the yard, suggesting the possibility that there was an initial clandestine burial in the yard and then a secondary placement of a body into the trunk. If that`s actually the way this unfolded, it suggests that the body may actually have died outside the trunk and in some location where the child was first put into the yard and then into the trunk after it decomposed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s becoming a circus over here. I mean, I look down the street and I see nothing but news trucks up and down, helicopters hovering all over at times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The only way they`re going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I`m saying.
I gave them things multiple times.
Nobody (DELETED) believes anything that I`m saying. I`m trying to help them and they`re not letting me help them.
The officer I gave the same information at least two or three times.
They haven`t listened to a (DELETED) thing that I`ve said.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. We saw Casey Anthony do absolutely nothing to help in the search for Caylee, her own daughter, last time she was sprung from jail. Now she`s out again as of a couple of hours ago. You`re seeing what happened at the jail just hours ago. Do you expect anything different, Patricia?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No. There`s no reason -- there`s no motivation for her to do anything different. I don`t think that her behavior is going to change, Nancy. But I wonder if we aren`t seeing an escalation in the intensity of denial in her parents, Cindy and George. They can only stretch that denial so far.
GRACE: To Mandy Albritton, joining us there tonight there in Orlando. She`s the deputy director of Equusearch and she is searching for Caylee. Where have the latest searches been?
MANDY ALBRITTON, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Well, Nancy, we`re focusing our efforts in and around the airport. All of our locations are based on law enforcement`s investigations and their leads.
GRACE: Mandy, I understand you desperately need more volunteers.
ALBRITTON: We do. However, the Orlando community is coming out. They`re supporting this child. We expect 500 to 1,000 volunteers tomorrow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey sat in the back of the SUV with her attorney Jose Baez. They pulled right into the garage so that we couldn`t ask any questions. Two guys who appeared to be private security guards were right behind them. George and Cindy Anthony had already driven their vehicles out of the garage to make room for Casey`s return. When I tried to find out how Cindy felt about Casey coming home again, she drowned out my questions with a loud alarm.
Cindy, did you want to say anything about Casey coming home? Cindy, did you want to say anything?
Orange County deputies were around to make sure that the situation didn`t get out of hand. But the people we believe were private security guards left, and so did Casey`s attorneys. One of the Anthonys` neighbors have already put up yellow tape around their home and a no trespassing sign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, CNN HN HOST: Straight out to the Anthony home, I understand, Natisha Lance and that police are at the home and the defense attorney Jose Baez.
NATISHA LANCE, CNN HN CORRESPONDENT: Hold on a minute I`m being asked to step out of the street by the police behind me. Could you say the question again?
GRACE: Yes, tell me what`s happening.
LANCE: Right now police, as you saw, who asked me to step out of the street, are here. They had asked the protesters, who are still in front of the house, that they can stay there, but they cannot scream and make noise and disturb the other neighbors in the neighborhood. And the police officers are still patrolling up and down the street trying to keep the peace as best they can. There are other protesters who are across the street from the Anthony home still holding their signs but silently keeping a watch on the home and silently doing their protesting.
GRACE: I understand that defense attorney Jose Baez is also there?
LANCE: Yes. Jose Baez did actually just arrive at the home. He went inside. He didn`t even look across the street over at media. Didn`t look at the protesters. Went to the door. Cindy Anthony opened the door for him and he went right inside.
GRACE: Any idea why?
LANCE: You know, it`s anyone`s guess, Nancy. He -- Casey came out of jail today. So possibly they are discussing some things for the future, maybe setting up some appointments. She does have to meet with her home confinement officer on Monday. So maybe she has to give them a schedule, so maybe they are trying to figure out what that schedule will be so that she can give it to them on Monday.
GRACE: Back to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who first sprung Casey Anthony out of jail. You were there in the home shortly after her release the first time. What was it like inside that home? What are they going through right now?
PADILLA: Well, right now probably Jose is huddled with Casey in one of the rooms by himself with her because he can`t have anybody else in there. Otherwise, it destroys the attorney/client privilege. And I don`t know if George is home. He might still be at work. But Cindy, herself, will be in the kitchen fixing dinner and I don`t know if the brother Lee is there or not.
GRACE: Leonard, you actually talked to them on numerous occasions. Do you think the grandparents really believe Casey Anthony?
PADILLA: No, no. They know the truth. Casey`s already divulged it to Lee. Lee has informed Cindy. As far as George, that I wouldn`t know. He`s the guy that`s really, you know, sometimes kept out of the loop and I feel real sorry for him.
GRACE: What do you mean she`s divulged the truth?
PADILLA: I believe that after the samples came out from the Tennessee and the FBI a week ago, more than a week ago, 10 days ago, that she probably told Lee, who told Cindy, because their whole attitude changed dramatically the very next morning. Thursday morning, it was kind of an offensive attack on she`s alive, she`s alive. Somebody put a body in the car and all that kind of stuff started coming out real strong.
GRACE: But if they really believe that it was another body in the car, not little Caylee, then that seems that they`re buying Casey Anthony`s story.
PADILLA: No, no, they`re not buying her story. They know what happened. They`re trying to make the best of it. They lost a granddaughter. They don`t want to lose a daughter.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Mike in Florida. Hi, Mike.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. How are you?
CALLER: I have a question about the searching. I know Equusearch is out here searching for Caylee`s body, whether she`s dead or alive. And my question regarding the family, you know, they`re claiming that nobody -- or people aren`t doing enough for this search. Why aren`t they out there volunteering their time to help Equusearch search for their grand daughter.
GRACE: Interesting question. Mandy Albritton is with Equusearch. She`s been searching for Caylee. Why isn`t the family out searching?
MANDY ALBRITTON, EQUUSEARCH: Interesting question, you`re right. It is unusual that they`re not out. I can`t answer that. Most parents are out beating the bushes with us every day.
GRACE: Now, you`re having a search tomorrow morning, right?
ALBRITTON: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: For people that want to volunteer, where should they go?
ALBRITTON: 6317 McCoy road. Our command station is set up. They can come any time throughout the day and we`d be glad to put them on a team and get them out to help.
GRACE: And that`s there in Orlando?
ALBRITTON: Yes.
GRACE: What hours do you guys search?
ALBRITTON: Well, we search -- we start at 8:00 a.m. And send our last teams out about 5:00, 5:30.
GRACE: Where do you believe the search will be tomorrow?
ALBRITTON: It will still concentrate in and around the airport.
GRACE: Mandy, why are you searching around the airport?
ALBRITTON: Based on the law enforcement investigation, that`s where they believe we need to look. We`re not sending searchers out into a random field. I`m not going to jeopardize anyone`s health or safety in an area where we don`t think she is.
GRACE: Back to Natisha, what is happening there at the home?
LANCE: Well, police are still staying around the area, Nancy, kind of patrolling up and down the street. We don`t know exactly what they`re doing. It seems as if they`re still trying to keep the peace with protesters over here, trying to make sure that they stay out of the middle of the street and on to either side of the sidewalk, either on the side that is the Anthony`s` home is on or on the other side across the street.
GRACE: Natisha, just for a moment, let me get you to switch gears, everyone. Natisha Lance joining us there at the Anthony home. Cindy Anthony, the grandmother, is totally supporting her daughter. But as the evidence mounts, many people find it difficult to believe she has walked free again. The evidence mounting. The state building a case of murder against Casey Anthony. Tell me what these new charges are specifically, Natisha.
LANCE: Well, the new charges specifically, Nancy, it`s two counts each of uttering a forged check, petty theft and fraudulent use of a personal I.D. And those come from Casey Anthony`s friend Amy Huizenga, who said she went out of town, she left her car with Casey, she had her checkbook in the car. Casey apparently took her checkbook, went on a shopping spree of sorts, went to Target, started writing checks out and cleared her banking account out of about $700.
GRACE: To the lawyers, Daniel Horowitz out of San Francisco, Joey Jackson out of New York. Daniel Horowitz, do you believe that this is part of a police strategy? Because police knew about these checks several weeks ago. I read about them in a sworn affidavit that went with the search warrant. But, yet, they let her be released, then rearrested.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you know how it is. They don`t want to arrest her for murder until they`re ready. Otherwise, the clock starts ticking and they will be forced by Mr. Baez, who is a smart attorney, to trial before they`re ready. So they`re letting her out. Then when public pressure mounts, they`re putting her back in. But they really don`t have a murder case. I disagree with you when they say they`re putting together a murder case. You have a child that`s missing. But to me it`s either an accidental death or maybe a crime of passion. They have no sign of premeditation.
GRACE: Let me see Horowitz just a moment. Horowitz, what did you do, look in your crystal ball and determine how the murder took place? I see you shaking your head yes. That`s good to know.
HOROWITZ: Well, first of all, listen to the nonsense .
GRACE: You can add clairvoyance to your ad in the yellow pages.
HOROWITZ: I don`t have an ad in the yellow pages. I listened to that nonsense about the chloroform. You know what that was? Cleaning. She cleaned the trunk. The child died in the house, buried the child in back, transported it and cleaned it.
GRACE: No, no.
HOROWITZ: Yes.
GRACE: Daniel Horowitz, do your research. Chloroform has been banned for consumer use since around 1977 by the FDA.
HOROWITZ: I know, but she looked it up and it`s a cleaner. It`s a good cleaner.
GRACE: If you want to do cleaning, hop on down to the Piggly-Wiggly and get some Lysol and some 409. You know, Joey Jackson, don`t give me second verse same as the first.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, listen, let me just say this. Here`s the reality, Nancy. Here`s my concern. If they want to charge her with murder, they should charge her with murder. I do agree that they are building a case. But at this point apparently there`s some lack of confidence with the case and they`re reluctant to go forward. The other issue is .
GRACE: You know what, you don`t know that, Jackson, lack of confidence. But I do agree with you. The longer they have to build the case, the better for them.
JACKSON: And of course you don`t want to jump the gun, so to speak, and proceed too early when there could be other evidence that needs to be unearthed. But at this time clearly they`re building a case. They`re not yet ready to move forward with it. But if they want to arrest her, stop speculating about chloroform, arrest her.
GRACE: Well, they have plenty to arrest her on, all these bad checks for now. Everybody, let`s take a quick break. As we go to break our thoughts and prayers tonight to CNN`s Jack Cafferty and his family. Jack`s beloved wife of 35 years, Carol, passed away unexpectedly. Besides her devotion to her husband, her family, Carol Cafferty extremely devoted to and loved animals.
If you want to make a contribution in her memory, go to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals at aspca.org. Tonight, our prayers are with Jack, with his daughters, Leslie, Leigh, Julie, Jill, and their grandchildren.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CAYLEE ANTHONY, DAUGHTER IS MISSING: Sitting in jail, I got arrested on a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whim today. Don`t even (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste your time coming up here. Calling you guys, a waste, huge waste. They`re blaming me for something that I never would do. I just watched the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side. I can`t sit here and be crying every two seconds like I want to. I just want Caylee back. I called to talk to my mother and it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re not telling me where she`s at.
ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Nobody in your family is on your side? I`ve got in my hands where your family, George and Cindy Anthony, put up promissory notes with collateral backing probably their house to get you out of jail. Straight back out to Leonard Padilla. These documents, what do they mean?
PADILLA: Well, they mean that somebody either paid $25,000 for each bond, which is a total of $50,000, or somebody`s on the hook for $50,000 payment down the road. So that is somebody that has not abandoned her, I can tell you that, because the way the Anthonys live, they don`t have $50,000 just laying around to spend on a bail bond.
GRACE: Well, not many people do. Back to Natisha Lance, our producer at the Anthony home. Mom Casey Anthony now behind closed doors in that Orlando home. Police have had to come to the scene to break up fights in fronts of the Anthony home. What is the movement there? And is Jose Baez, defense attorney, still in there?
LANCE: Jose Baez is still inside, Nancy. The movement still -- there`s still protesters around. Police are still trying to make sure that they stay on either side of the sidewalk. And they are still in front of the house with their signs. As you can see right behind me right here. And it doesn`t seem like anyone is moving. And they have told me that they are planning to be back here again tomorrow after they go searching in the morning, here in the afternoon to do their protesting all over again.
GRACE: Back to Donald Schweitzer, former detective with the Santa Ana P.D. You know, Donald, the evidence is mounting, especially with the turn of events regarding significant amounts of chloroform in the trunk and then the chloroform web search on Casey Anthony`s laptop. Question. With the evidence mounting to this degree against her, why was she allowed out of jail?
SCHWEITZER: Well, Nancy, maybe she was let out of jail so that she could further her search for her daughter. You know, but seriously, she was let out of jail because I think that the law requires her to be out at this point. And it shows me that the family wants to bring her back so that they can maybe protect somebody else. I`ve always held that there`s another person involved here. And maybe they`re still conspiring to protect somebody else.
GRACE: OK. You know what, there are a million theories on what happened to little Caylee. Out to the lines, Cathy in Arizona. Hi, Cathy.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: First I have a statement. You know, I just heard you say that the Anthonys may have put up their home for Casey.
GRACE: Yes.
CALLER: She had said and told all of her friends that they were going to give her their home. So there you go. But, anyway, my question is, with everything going on with the trunk and with the searches on the Web site, should they not find a body, they could consider it murder, would it be premeditated?
GRACE: Well, I think, in light of the searches online for chloroform, that would show planning. And let me remind you that premeditation can be formed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye. In the time it takes you to raise a gun up and pull the trigger. Isn`t that true, Daniel Horowitz.
HOROWITZ: It`s true, Nancy, but you have no indication that the chloroform was not a cleaning agent. You always have Luminol, right, Nancy? It finds blood after you use Clorox to clean it. So she`s probably looking to clean up. So do not say it`s premeditation. There`s no evidence of premeditation.
GRACE: If she wanted to clean up, why was she looking up chloroform online? Why not use a cleaning agent?
HOROWITZ: Because you want a solvent that strips it right out of the fiber, not just something that oxidizes it.
GRACE: Obviously I know Daniel Horowitz, that doesn`t clean house. To sherry in Florida. Hi, Sherry.
CALLER: My question is since she left her car near the dumpster, it makes me wonder if anyone has tried searching our local dumpsters here.
GRACE: What about it, Nikki Pierce?
PIERCE: As far as we know, we don`t know specifically if they have or they haven`t, but I know that Orange County has conducted extensive searches of all of the areas that have been involved in the investigation. So I would surmise that they have. I would assume, but, you know, you know what happens .
GRACE: Everyone, we`ll be back. We`re taking your calls live but very quickly, tonight, CNN "Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN "Heroes."
TOM HENDERSON, CREATOR OF SHELTER BOX: As we speak, around the world, there are thousands, sometimes millions of people displaced by disasters and war. There will be no power, no buildings of course, very little water. So that the whole situation of disaster means people have been overwhelmed.
My name is Tom Henderson. I created a product called Shelter Box. It`s to help victims of disasters around the world. We`re inking of the whole package. Mosquito nets, blankets, cooking pots and pans, a 10-person tent. Shelter Box is designed enough so two people with carry it but it has to be large enough to get enough equipment in for 10 people. It`s a simple package of aid delivered to the most needy of people in the shortest amount of time.
A huge cyclone struck Myanmar in May of 2008. It was the largest recorded disaster in that country. Millions of people left homeless, over 130,000 killed.
We were one of the first aid agencies into the country delivering our Shelter Boxes. We want this to last for years to come, not just to get through the disaster, perhaps as a springboard for moving forward.
If people have lost everything, why should they lose their dignity as well? We were very keen to deliver aid, to give people their dignity. Put them back in control.
ANNOUNCER: Get involved. Cnn.com/heroes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Breaking news tonight. Deadline comes and goes. Mom Casey turning down an immunity deal in the search for her own little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not accepting immunity. She doesn`t need immunity.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information we got back from the FBI lab indicating that she was in the trunk of that car and she`s dead is certainly information we take very seriously.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to start looking for a little girl that`s walking and breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s living in total denial.
GRACE: Bombshell tonight. Mom Casey Anthony walks out of jail free. Free on bond again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An anonymous party posted Casey Anthony`s $500,000 bond. Her first bond rescinded after new charges of check fraud and theft were filed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was George and Cindy Anthony who signed promissory notes with bond companies to get the note.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is chaos, a big mess as you can tell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First forensic evidence suggesting that Casey Anthony`s decomposing body was at one time in the trunk of the car and chloroform was in that trunk too. It`s possible Casey used chloroform used intentionally but her child`s death was an accident.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accidental or not, there`s a crime that`s been committed and someone needs to pay for it, and the fact that no one`s paid for it, that`s a problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember, Army Sergeant Adam Kohlhaas, 26, Perryville, Missouri, killed in Iraq. On a third tour, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, had a big heart. Loved hunting, fishing, guitar, being a dad. He dreamed of going on a honeymoon with his new wife. He leaves behind grieving father Henry, brother Nate, widow Rebecca, daughter London. Best friend Joe. Adam Kohlhaas, American hero thanks to our guests, our biggest thank you to you for being with us.
A special good night from the New York control room. Good night Liz, Brett, everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 Eharp eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
