Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Police Confiscate Gun in Car at Anthony Residence
Aired September 08, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Reports that mom, Casey, has created a new and elaborate story full of details about the day little Caylee went missing, something completely different. Police arrive at the Anthony home in the early morning hours to confiscate a gun, that handgun reported to police by a tipster. This as reports emerge that grandmother, Cindy, on the verge of kicking mom, Casey, out of the Anthony home just before little Caylee goes missing. Texas-based Equusearch suspends search for 3-year-old Caylee. Why?
And all this as sources confirm there was so much of the powerful chemical solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk, even the air in the trunk was saturated with chloroform, mom, Casey`s, computer revealing multiple visits to Web sites on chloroform. Investigators confirm there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee.
And tonight, tensions mounting outside the Anthony home, protesters demanding justice for Caylee, refusing to leave, grandfather George now facing potential battery charges after shoving two of the protesters. At this hour, mom, Caylee (SIC), refusing to meet with cops or feds to help find her little girl. Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the right thing! Do the right thing (INAUDIBLE)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Every day (INAUDIBLE) join me to look for my granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God is going to tell you...
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s alive.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You should know better!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just been a crazy scene at the Anthony home ever since Casey was released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony facing criminal charges, two counts of battery, accused of shoving two protesters outside his home and while clutching a hammer. And that`s not all. Cops also seized a gun from his car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Channel 9 has learned that an intense fight right before Casey left with Caylee in mid-June was over money that Casey had stolen from her own grandparents, from an account dedicated to paying for assisted living expenses. Tensions had been building over the theft.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK, what did the person do that you need arrested?
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter.
911 OPERATOR: For what?
CINDY ANTHONY: For stealing an auto and stealing money.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Channel 9 has learned Cindy Anthony had gone to a counselor who told her to kick Casey out. Cindy Anthony was worried that Casey would take Caylee with her, so the counselor told her to try to get legal custody of Caylee. Before that could happen, Casey and Caylee left, and Cindy believed Casey kept Caylee out of touch just to punish her. Relatives say Caylee was much more attached to her grandmother than she was to her own mother.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: You don`t know what my involvement is and stuff?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey...
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: What? No, I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, don`t waste your call to scream and holler at me.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials suspended their search for Caylee Anthony, saying wet conditions are making it hard to clear areas, but search crews plan to return when conditions are better. Meanwhile, bounty hunter Rob Dick says Casey Anthony told him she left Caylee in Blanchard Park with baby-sitter Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. Dick drove Casey to and from her parents` home to appointments at the jail and with her lawyer. Dick says Casey Anthony was very talkative but showed no emotion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to the Anthony home. Standing by there in Orlando, Florida, our producer, Natisha Lance. Natisha, a gun removed from the home?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. Early Saturday morning, there was a gun. Police received a tip saying that there was a gun under the spare tire of George Anthony`s car. Police came to the home. They did find that gun. It was removed.
Now, the issue comes in because it is against the conditions of Casey`s home confinement to have a gun or any weapon in her presence, on property. Now, according to the judge, he`s not going to revoke Casey`s home confinement because she was not aware of this gun being there. She had nothing to do with the gun. But the gun was removed, and now no weapons are at the Anthony home.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us out of Atlanta -- excuse me -- out of LA tonight, Darryl Cohen, veteran defense attorney. Also joining us out of New York, Carmen St. George, also a trial lawyer. Darryl Cohen, I know that the terms of her being on home arrest are no weapons in the home, but under the legal theory of cartilage (ph), wouldn`t that include the garage, the toolshed, the car? If there`s a weapon in any of those locations, wouldn`t that violate the home arrest?
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Of course, Nancy, it violates the home arrest. But the fact that she didn`t know it, the judge is going to give her just a little more leeway just because she`s under home arrest, and it`s probably as good as it`s going to get for the moment.
GRACE: Right. Right. She didn`t know about it, Carmen St. George, just like she didn`t know how to break into that toolshed and steal gasoline, she didn`t know how to get into her grandmother, who is near 90 years old, into her rest home bank account and steal from it?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you really have to consider that her father was a deputy. He`s a former officer. And the court considered the fact that she didn`t have any knowledge that the gun was there. She wasn`t intending to use it. She had no connection with it. And really, it was a pass that the court gave her in consideration of the fact that this really technically could violate her, but they`re not going to use it to violate her.
GRACE: I`m going to go back to the theory, what we`ve learned recently, that just before little Caylee goes missing, Cindy Anthony, according to reports of a local affiliate, was on the verge of kicking Casey out, mom, Casey, out, and making her actually get a job like the rest of us. In fact, tensions had mounted so high, according to a local reporter, that grandmother, Cindy, had actually gone to a therapist about mom, Casey, stealing money out of her grandmother`s assisted living fund.
Out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter with WDBO. What can you tell me about that?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Yes, well, there are those tensions that were building over some money that she had taken out of an account that was actually intended for her grandparents` assisted living. And it`s not just that. There was also MySpace records, where Cindy Anthony was talking about some of the ways that her daughter, that she had provided for, that she had provided Caylee and then talking about how her daughter had actually stabbed her in the back and keeping the daughter away from her. So through what we`ve learned, it`s obviously -- obvious that there was some tension there around the time that Caylee went missing.
GRACE: So she had actually sought out a therapist to deal with mom, Casey Anthony, stealing?
PETRIMOULX: That`s right. And the therapist actually said that she should try to get custody of Caylee and kick her out of the house. Of course, before any of that was able to go through -- you know, we`re not sure if she was going to go through with that, but before any of that could happen, Casey, you know, left.
GRACE: Left with the little girl. And back out to our Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by just outside the Anthony home. Isn`t it true that grandmother, Cindy, thought Casey kept Caylee away from her just to spite her?
LANCE: According to this local report, that`s true, Nancy, that she felt that Casey was trying to punish her in some type of way, ran off with Caylee to punish her.
GRACE: Out to the lines. To Linda in North Carolina. Hi, Linda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) this story.
GRACE: I`m sorry, Linda. I couldn`t hear you. Repeat?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said thank you for following this story.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A quick question. Casey had reported that she ran out of gas and that was the reason for leaving her car. Have they verified that, in fact, she did run out of gas, or did she actually just park the car there?
GRACE: Interesting question. What do we know about that, Drew?
PETRIMOULX: That`s a great question and something that we haven`t learned yet. You know, we know the car was actually towed to the tow place and hen the parents came up and picked it up after that. I imagine if there was no gas in it, at some time, somebody would have had to put gas in it. But you know, we haven`t learned from investigators if they tested to see, you know, when gas ran out, if it ever did.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. I want to go out to California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, who first got this woman out of jail. You are putting up $50,000 for anyone that can help find little Casey (SIC). Is that true?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s correct.
GRACE: Little Caylee. Why?
PADILLA: Well, I believe it`s important to find the child, give her a decent funeral because I believe that she is deceased, and somebody has to step up. So I`m hoping that somebody realizes that maybe they saw something at the Anthony residence on the 18th or they saw something between the 27th and the 30th, while the car was parked at the store. And incidentally, the car was -- the car was out of gas.
GRACE: It was out of gas. I thought you may know about that. Everybody, this $50,000 put up by Leonard Padilla for help in finding little Caylee. And tonight we learn that mom, Casey, has come up with a whole new scenario about the day little Caylee went missing.
And she apparently told the story to Robert Dick, who was providing security for Casey Anthony. What did she tell you, Robert, about leaving little Caylee in a park with numerous people?
ROBERT DICK, PROVIDED SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Well, basically, it just changed a little bit. The story is still kind of the same, but instead of the Sawgrass...
GRACE: The only thing that`s the same is the alleged Zenaida Gonzalez was there. Tell me.
DICK: That`s right. Yes, that she met her at Blanchard Park instead.
GRACE: So let me get this straight. It`s my understanding that you and mom, Casey, were in the car and that she told you she was at the park with Zenaida Gonzalez, her sister, Samantha, Samantha`s children and little Caylee, and that they took little Caylee at the end and said, We`re taking her and we`re giving you a script to read to police and anyone that questions her whereabouts. A script?
DICK: That`s what she related, yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence that`s out there is circumstantial. (INAUDIBLE) out there is being drawn up in someone`s mind. Just because something looks like it`s going the one way, it could be going in a totally different way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People want to know why won`t your client talk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re assuming she`s not talking, and you`re also assuming she does not know where Caylee is.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I know who has her. I tried to contact her.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`d be standing right here by all of us. She`d be out searching, if she could.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A new and elaborate story by mom, Casey Anthony, as to where her little girl is. With us tonight, the security guard that she apparently told this story to. Robert Dick, is with us. Now, let me get this straight. She said she left little Caylee in Jay Blanchard Park?
DICK: Well, she said she met with Zenaida in Jay Blanchard Park. During he meeting, while they were talking, little Caylee got in the car with the other two kids of her sisters, and when she said, Hey, where`s Caylee going, supposedly, Zenaida had held her back and told her that she was going to have to read this script and follow an outline.
GRACE: What became of the script and the outline?
DICK: Unknown. It`s just that she had an outline to follow, and that`s why she led the police on a wild goose chase.
GRACE: Back to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Drew, that is in complete contradiction of what she told cops earlier about taking little Caylee to Sawgrass apartments and leaving her there with Zenaida Gonzalez.
PETRIMOULX: Yes, and they`re on, you know, not the same side of town. So there`s a difference between where she dropped them off, Zenaida Gonzalez`s apartment, and then this Blanchard Park is on the east side of town. It`s a swampy, wooded area, so similar to the place where they were searching. There were some searches conducted in Blanchard Park, and you know, it`s the same kind of swampy, wooded area.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author. Weigh in, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I`m not so surprised that she told Robert Dick a whole new story. After her daughter went missing, what does she do? She`s dates four different guys. She`s out on a stripper pole. She`s partying. That is the type of thing that has motivated her, not the loss of her child, not wishing to search for her daughter. It`s being with men. She`s boy crazy. So what`s going to happen when she`s in a car alone with Robert Dick? She`s going to try to impress him with a whole new story.
And I`ve said several times on your show that I don`t believe she`s motivated in terms of telling the truth to find her daughter. I don`t think she`s motivated by some external incentive, like helping her parents or saving her own skin. I think she`s motivated by flirtatious men and the idea of the idealized life that she felt her daughter was holding her back from.
GRACE: You know, Bethany, what importance, if any, do you attach to the revelation that just before little Caylee goes missing, grandmother Cindy apparently -- and it was about time -- gets tired of her, as she says, mooching and leaching, living at the home, not contributing anything, wanting her to move out? I think I get the understanding that she wanted her to move out, but she, Cindy Anthony, wanted to take care of little Caylee herself.
MARSHALL: Well, I think it tells us that she`s so callous and remorseless that she used her own daughter as a weapon against her mother. And I think many grandparents in the United States find themselves in this position, where they have children who are neglecting their grandchildren either because they`re drug abusers or they have personality disorders. And I would tell those people, before you make any big changes, use the legal system to protect the grandchild. If your daughter uses the grandchild as a weapon, protect the grandchild before you stand up to the parent of the grandchild.
GRACE: Joining us right now is a special guest, Patricia Young, who has filed charges against grandfather, George Anthony. Miss Young, thank you for being with us. What happened?
PATRICIAN YOUNG, FILED ASSAULT CHARGE AGAINST GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, hi, Nancy. Thank you for having me.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
YOUNG: While we were here protesting, we came over to -- here for the search, and we ended up that evening in front of the Anthony home protesting. And there were about six or eight of us, and George pushed -- ended up pushing a male first and then myself. And he had told to us get off his property, and we were not on it. And anyway, he ended up pushing us. He had a hammer in his hand. And his son, Lee, came out and wanted to -- he took the hammer from his father and tried to steer him towards the garage.
GRACE: Miss Young, why were you protesting? What do you hope to gain by protesting?
YOUNG: I want to see Caylee brought home. That is the whole object of this, as far as I`m concerned. There were over 2,500 people out searching, and then the protesters here. We all feel the same way. We want little Caylee to come home.
GRACE: What do you make of Casey Anthony being free on bond?
YOUNG: I`m not for that at all. I think she should be put back in jail.
GRACE: You know, I want to go back out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport." Pat, under what conditions do you believe, if any, that mom, Casey Anthony, will ever tell where little Caylee is?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Nancy, I think she`ll tell when it will be worth something to her. And I want to bring this up about the Blanchard Park incident. She may just be telling a story to seek some attention, or she may be trying to distract the search team away from Blanchard Park. But at the same hand, she may be worried that the search team is going to find the body of Caylee in Blanchard Park, and therefore wants to place Caylee with Zenaida in Blanchard Park, say, See? I left her with Zenaida in Blanchard Park, so it wasn`t me, if you found her body. It wasn`t me who did her in, it was Zenaida.
GRACE: But you know, the deal Pat Brown, is that that`s not at all what she told police. This story, this fabrication that she told to Robert Dick, is that she was there, that Zenaida Gonzalez was there, Gonzalez`s sister, Samantha, her children. They were all playing in the park. They had been there for some period of time. They all got ready to go. And Zenaida Gonzalez puts Caylee in her car.
And Casey Anthony goes, Why do you have Caylee? She says, I`m taking her, and here`s the script that you need to read for about 30 days if anybody asks you where Caylee is. Have you ever heard such a ridiculous story in your life, Here`s your script?
BROWN: Well, no, it is a ridiculous story, but she is trying to explain away all of her own behaviors. And when something doesn`t work for her, she`ll change the story to the next thing that works. And the only reason she will give up any information is because she thinks that is going to protect her, so we have to listen very carefully to what she says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s people out there looking, spending their time, spending their days looking for her daughter, and she knows where she`s at. That`s ridiculous. She needs to start talking. This has been what, 60 days now? It`s a joke.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee is missing, and continue to look for Caylee. She is not dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our concern is to find Caylee.
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Whatever you guys want to take from my house, you want to take the shingles off the roof, I don`t care. You do what you need to do to bring my granddaughter back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every conversation we have revolves around finding Caylee.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where my daughter is. Yes, that is the truth.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Americans can think what they want, as long as they continue to look for my granddaughter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the revelation that Casey Anthony has a whole new story about what happened to little Caylee, extremely disturbing, daunting the hopes of so many people that have been searching for her, donating their time, their money, their resources to find her.
Back out to Natisha Lance there at the Anthony home. Natisha, how many volunteers came out to look for little Caylee this weekend?
LANCE: There are over 1,000 volunteers from all over the country, Nancy, looking for Caylee, even Patricia, who you spoke to. She came from two hours away just to be a part of this search.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla. You were in the home the last time she made bond. What are they doing in there? Did they ask her about where little Caylee is, or do they act like nothing`s happening?
PADILLA: The time that I was in there, she acted absolutely like nothing had happened. It`s almost like Cindy handles her with kid gloves. George walks a wide circle around her. And Lee just treats her like a little sister.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no right to live her here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s the case that gets more bizarre by the minute.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A brawl broke out in front of Casey Anthony`s home as protesters refuse to leave when angry neighbors ask.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baby killer! Baby killer!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of our neighborhood.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: The safety situation out there and the security problems we`re having is unbearable.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Deputies rushed over to break up the angry mob but they didn`t force the protesters to leave and that got neighbors even angrier.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve been putting up with this for six weeks. You know? My kid can`t play outside. We can`t leave the house without people trying to run us over. It`s ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) a bag of trash. You make her feel like she`s a bag of trash. Not giving (INAUDIBLE) her proper burial. What kind of mother are you? Do you love her or what? If I loved my granddaughter like that, she wouldn`t be laying somewhere where nobody can find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s all about money and you know it. You know it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She deserves better than this. She deserves better than this from her grandmother and her grandfather who love her so much. How much do you love Caylee? How much do you love Caylee? You say you love her? Show us how much you love her. We love her, too. We fell in love with that little girl.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Tonight, apparently mom, Casey Anthony, refusing to meet with police or the feds, the FBI, about the little girl.
Straight out to the lines, Winifred in Louisiana. Hi, dear.
WINIFRED, LOUISIANA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
WINIFRED: Nancy, I`d like to know if anyone ever checked the dumpsters at J. Blanchard Park or even the landfill where the trash was taken to?
GRACE: Excellent question.
To Natisha Lance, standing by there at the Anthony home -- Natisha, what do we know?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we do know that when Casey first left her boyfriend`s house -- Tony Lazzaro`s house -- police did come because she had left her cell phone there. Now when they came, they picked up the cell phone and they also searched the premises at his apartment complex.
As to whether or not they searched the dumpster, we don`t know. But we also do know that Equusearch was searching close to a landfill that -- the dumpster at the Amscot where Casey left her vehicle would have been dumped, and that`s all that we know at this point in terms of searching dumpsters.
GRACE: To California bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, you believe that there is a dumpster that could have revealed information?
PADILLA: That`s correct. If she didn`t bury her daughter in the backyard on the 18th and put her back in the trunk of the car like myself and Rob Dick believe, then the car -- when she pulled into the store, ran out of gas, and she couldn`t pull away from the dumpster.
My belief is that she put the child in the dumpster on the evening of the 27th -- excuse me, the evening of the 26th. Rob, on the other hand, believes that he put -- she put the child, if at all, in the dumpster on the evening of the 28th.
GRACE: You`re seeing exclusive home video from ABC News and "20/20." That`s mom Casey Anthony and little Caylee. You saw them playing in the pool and there they are inside.
Back out to the lines to Chris in Maryland, hi, Chris.
CHRIS, MARYLAND RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, thank you for your great coverage on this case.
GRACE: Thank you.
CHRIS: My question to you is, the car was left with no gas at the check cashing place and the footage that you`ve shown show many surveillance cameras. Has anyone gotten the footage -- those surveillance camera tapes? Have there any footage of that dumpster where she left that car perhaps, I believe, she did put the child in the dumpster.
Is there any cameras on that dumpster?
GRACE: Leonard Padilla, do you believe that there are cameras on the dumpster?
PADILLA: I believe that there`s cameras but I also believe that if there were film or anything like that, law enforcement would have it.
GRACE: You know, the problem with that -- to Pat Brown -- is that very quickly those cameras tape over.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": That is a problem. I want to mention something else. It`s also possible she dumped the child, came back into town and then ran out of gas, so we can`t be sure that that dumpster has anything to do with it.
Good idea, though.
GRACE: Well, Pat, what about the theory of them pinging her cell phone out to that swampy area near the airport?
BROWN: Well, that is -- certainly something that`s rather fascinating, isn`t it? And that`s why you have to look at every possible location that child could be and follow through.
GRACE: Well, you know, another issue with that -- to Dr. Bethany Marshall -- is that was outside of her normal route. That was outside her going back and forth to the boyfriend, back and forth to Blanchard Park. So to me that waved a red flag.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think so and when you observe this girl, Casey, she really engages in a very narrow range of behaviors.
Even as a mother, I mean, I watched this video and she`s smiling at her daughter and she`s -- you know, she seems so enamored with the daughter and you really wonder if she sort of put on the mask of sanity.
She`s acting like she cares about the daughter or gravitating towards the attention that the daughter gives her like she may have been gravitating toward Robert Dick`s attention and made up a big old story to make him happy.
But that deep down she`s really a deadened individual who doesn`t have the capacity to attach.
GRACE: Back to Robert Dick who was providing security for mom Casey Anthony. She told him this bizarre new story about leaving the little girl with Zenaida Gonzalez at a park and Gonzalez giving her an alleged script to read to police and others that question where Caylee was.
What was her demeanor when she told you this story?
ROBERT DICK, PROVIDED SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY, SAYS TOT MOM TOLD HIM SHE LEFT CAYLEE AT PARK: Well, she has a very outgoing personality. It`s never down, always seems happy. And.
GRACE: She was happy?
DICK: It`s my belief she was giving leads, in her mind, at least, that would point me in a direction to confirm her story, though different still trying to give out the same Zenaida, the kidnapping, you know, in that direction.
GRACE: You said she was upbeat?
DICK: As far as just our normal contact it was just like any day with any other person.
GRACE: So her demeanor was not upset about Caylee. She wasn`t talking about the search? What else did she talk about?
DICK: To be honest, she just talks the whole time. I mean.
GRACE: About what?
DICK: . and it`s about anything. I mean the weather, the way some place used to be and now let`s -- you know, different stories there. I mean just about anything.
GRACE: What did she say about Caylee?
DICK: Caylee didn`t come up a lot in discussion. Now understand that I`m not allowed to ask her any questions. I`m just there. I -- it`s part of an agreement, I couldn`t question her.
GRACE: Right.
DICK: Or ask her anything, so I`m just there hearing what she has to say and she, like I said, is trying to tell me things to look into as far as Zenaida, the sister.
GRACE: Like what? What does she want you to look into?
DICK: To try to find them, to try to prove that her story is true.
GRACE: But like what? What lead did she give to you try to find Zenaida Gonzalez?
DICK: Well, nothing special. That`s what I`m saying. It`s nothing out of the ordinary that`s already in the police report.
GRACE: Got you.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Darryl Cohen, veteran trial lawyer out of Atlanta, joining us from L.A., Carmen St. George, in the New York jurisdiction.
Darryl, don`t you just hate it when your client yak, yak, yak about nothing? Oh, that`s where the old Sears and Roebuck building used to be in. Now there`s a Winn-dixie there and they go on and on. Oh, by the way, you know what really happened the day my daughter went missing?
A whole new story, Darryl.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s the old story. If you`re going to tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said. This woman cannot tell the truth. She needs to keep her mouth shut.
She needs to listen to her lawyer and shut up, (speaking in foreign language), let it be, because the more she talks, the more she says, the more out there she is and the more out there she is, the more obvious it is that she`s concealing it and I`ve got a feeling we`re never going to find Caylee at this juncture.
GRACE: With me right now famed forensic scientist Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky.
Dr. Kobilinsky, thank you for being with us. Kobi, you can`t tell me the DNA, all the tests are not back. They`re back. They`ve got to be back.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I -- honestly, I have no idea, I haven`t seen the reports, I haven`t seen anything official. I`m hearing a lot of things that the media are reporting but I haven`t seen any reports as of yet.
GRACE: Did I ask you have you seen a report? No, I did not. I asked you do you believe the DNA results are back?
KOBILINSKY: Oh, sure. I think the results are in but they just haven`t been made public yet.
GRACE: Because apparently what was taken out of the back of that trunk, and there are other samples, many, many samples, we just know that there was a possible blood stain, a stain in the back of the trunk. We know the hair was there, some type of fluid.
There`s got to be results back on that, Kobilinsky.
KOBILINSKY: I would think so. Presumptive testing for blood is very rapid. Hair analysis is very straightforward. Microscopy and then DNA. And we know about the air analysis by the body farm the University of Tennessee.
So, I mean, these results have to be in. We just haven`t gotten any reports back yet from these different labs.
GRACE: So Carmen St. George, what are they waiting on?
CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think everything has to be disclosed at a proper time. At this point she`s the subject of an investigation. That`s why she`s not giving any statements. They`re not releasing their hand. They`re investigating in hopes of finding the missing child, which is the focus at this time.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: If you don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way. You`re on my property.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not on your property.
G. ANTHONY: Would you please remove this gentleman, please? He`s on my property. Leave me alone. Do not come past here. Please, do not come past here.
Out of respect to these other people for a change. Honor them. Listen, old dude, I don`t care how big you are, how tall you are, you want to get off my property?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not on your property.
G. ANTHONY: Get off my property.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me.
G. ANTHONY: I can touch you. I just touch you. Next time I see you or anyone else on my property I will file charges. Do you think I`m kidding? I am not.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What can you say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead in an accident?
G. ANTHONY: Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: A powder keg waiting to blow outside the Anthony home. George Anthony trying to keep people out of his -- out of his yard, off his property.
Tonight with us is Patricia Young who has filed an assault charge against George Anthony.
Miss Young, you keep protesting, wanting justice for little Caylee. What do you make of Texas Equusearch going home? They`re not searching today.
PATRICIA YOUNG, FILED ASSAULT CHARGES AGAINST GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, they said it was too wet, that they couldn`t search anymore because they could do more damage than good.
GRACE: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO -- Drew, do you believe Equusearch will come back and continue the search or is this it?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, the thing is, they`re waiting for the floodwaters to go down. I`m sure you remember Tropical Storm Fay came through the area and dumped a lot of rain on central Florida and actually it`s a swampy area already with the amount of rain.
It`s actually -- you know, cut a lot of the area that they`re able to search by foot off. And what they are, they`re afraid that they might go over some of the remains of Caylee and actually, you know, further impede the search for her.
So, until all the floodwaters recede, they`re calling off the search for now.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Bethany, it must be so difficult, for instance, for the grandparents or other people, they are holding out hope Caylee`s alive to hear us talking about her remains being underwater or disturbing her remains.
You know, I was thinking about what Leonard Padilla said earlier about the way they treat Casey Anthony when she gets out of jail like they gingerly -- why can`t they see what other people see about the facts of this case?
MARSHALL: Well, I think, and I said this on a former show, it`s almost like pathological denial. They have to deny what`s right in front of them.
But, you know, Nancy, even if they did see it, even if they said our daughter`s a pathological liar, potentially she dispensed with our granddaughter and she used her as a weapon in a cruel and horrible way, what can they really do about it?
If the police are helpless, if the police can`t get her to tell the truth, even moving her in and out of the judicial system, how are two little old parents going to get her to tell the truth?
I mean there`s really true helplessness and in terms of the powder keg of rage that`s spilling over to the protester on the front lawn, in a way, they`re like the Greek chorus speaking the truth. The Anthonys denying it, the Greek chorus speaking the truth and it`s a huge clash of reality.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Allison in New Jersey. Hi, Allison.
ALLISON, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
ALLISON: Regarding Casey`s chloroform searches online, I was wondering if police have traced her credit or debit card histories or even those of her parents in case she took theirs just to check for possible searches online or purchases?
GRACE: I know that they have gotten all the information off the computer.
Pat Brown, how much more difficult is it to actually pin down a search for a purchase?
BROWN: Well, I don`t know that it`s going to be hard if it was done online. The real question is could it have been done some place else, like could she have accessed something to the hospital through her mother, through some other method?
That would be a little trickier.
GRACE: Well, bottom line is you can buy chloroform for about 60 bucks online. Just put a bunch of checks and questions. It`s not very difficult at all.
Out to Eden in California, hi, Eden.
EDEN, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you? I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you for watching and for calling in. What`s your question?
EDEN: I was just wondering if Cindy Anthony is going to be charged for tampering with evidence when she washed Casey`s pants that were found in the car.
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Darryl Cohen?
COHEN: Charge with tampering with evidence. That`s just such a minor charge compared to what she is really going to be charged with.
GRACE: Wait, we`re talking about grandmother Cindy.
COHEN: Oh grandmother. I`m sorry. No, she`s not going to be charged. She did what she should have done, she washed the clothes. And I think grandmother and grandfather desperately want that child back definitely.
GRACE: What about it, Carmen?
ST. GEORGE: I would agree, Nancy. I think that there`s nothing suggesting that the grandparents had any involvement in this case. We can`t let this turn into mob justice. The criminal justice system has to take place and at this point there`s an investigation going on.
GRACE: Carmen, Carmen. Carmen. It is working. Don`t you see her out on bail a second time?
ST. GEORGE: Nancy, it reminds me of the Joran Vander Sloot case where we had him going in and out. At this point, the criminal justice system has to take place. There has to be an investigation. We have to keep our heads up and keep looking forward to the fact that hopefully we`ll find the body in this case.
And keep in mind that the defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.
GRACE: OK, you know what? All I asked you about was the grandmother going to be charged. For this time I agree, with Carmen St. George and Darryl Cohen. She`s not going to be in charge -- be charged. She unwittingly, I believe, washed the pants even though they and the car did smell like a dead body.
Out to the lines, Michelle in Florida. Hi, Michelle.
MICHELLE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. My question is if there was evidence of a decomposing body in Casey`s trunk, how long would a body have had to actually be dead to find that kind of evidence?
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Kobilinsky?
KOBILINSKY: Well, you know, the early part of decomposition involves the development of vapors and we talked about (INAUDIBLE) and cadavering.
GRACE: How long?
KOBILINSKY: Not long at all. A matter of.
GRACE: An hour, a day?
KOBILINSKY: A day or two. Yes. And actually, decomposition begins upon death but it takes time for the vapors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: What do you mean I don`t know? The person who is in the back of my granddaughter`s car was not my grand daughter. So why don`t you guys -- get your facts straight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Back out to the lawyers. She is free to go to her lawyer`s office from 10:00 to 4:00 every day to talk about what, Cohen? Six hours?
COHEN: I can tell you this. She`s going to use that if she possibly can just to stay away from the press. Because if she doesn`t stay away from the press and stay away from all of these friends and these guys that she`s flirting with, she`s going to open her mouth one time too often.
GRACE: And very quickly, Carmen St. George, apparently, a cop has been released from the force after having a relationship with mom, Casey. How badly does that compromise the investigation?
ST. GEORGE: It doesn`t compromise this investigation, I don`t think, Nancy. He was.
GRACE: What?
ST. GEORGE: He was released from the force because he himself made false statements about his relationship with her. It really should have no effect on her.
But, on the other hand, in regard to your question of how long she`s meeting with her attorneys, I got to give it to you, Nancy, this case presents some serious defense challenges.
GRACE: Darryl Cohen, can you actually say with a straight face having a relationship with a cop on -- on the force that`s investigating you for a potential murder is not a problem?
COHEN: Nancy, that`s my story. I`m sticking to it.
GRACE: Come on.
COHEN: No, I can`t say that.
GRACE: They can have a field day with that.
COHEN: No. It`s a major problem. If this case ever gets to a jury, heaven help the assistant state attorney who`s trying this case.
GRACE: The defense will have a field day -- a field day.
COHEN: You got it.
GRACE: He needs to be picking up trash on the side of the interstate for his next job.
Let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Shane Penley, just 19, village, Illinois, killed, Iraq. Awarded the National Defense Service Medal, Iraqi Campaign Medal and Army Service Ribbon.
With a smile that lit up a room, loved wrestling, football, working out, playing basketball with his father. Leaves behind grieving parents David and Dana, three sister -- sisters, Crystal, Ashleigh, and Amber.
Shane Penley, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, happy birthday to the real star, our director, Brett. Just 21.
Happy birthday, Brett.
Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
