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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Arrested for Third Time on Forgery Charges
Aired September 15, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last hour, Casey Anthony turns herself in, and at this hour, is back in isolation behind bars for yet a third time. Mom, Casey, goes before a judge 08:30 tomorrow morning, just one day after declaring herself not guilty on 10 counts of fraud. Translation: The new charges could land mom, Casey Anthony, 67 years behind bars. This after bombshell audiotapes surface, Casey Anthony repeatedly stonewalling investigations just after little Caylee is reported missing. Mom, Casey, tells police lie after lie after lie, even laughing at times.
Tonight, more stunning audiotapes released. Mom, Casey`s, defense demands to see the state`s evidence against their client. When will the search for little Caylee finally resume? Why the slowdown? What do cops know they`re not telling us? Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony, the mother of the missing 3-year- old Orlando girl, Caylee Anthony, has been arrested for a third time. Anthony turned herself in to Orange County authorities today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you for a certainty that right now, looking at you, I know that everything you`ve told me is a lie, including the fact that, you know, your child was last seen about a month ago and that you don`t know where she is. You know, I am very confident, just by having talked to you in this short period of time, that you know where she is.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do. And here`s the thing. We need to get past that because we can sit here and go back and forth all day long about, I don`t, I do, I don`t, I do. It`s pretty obvious that with everything that you`ve told us, nothing has been true. You know where she is.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony`s attorney arrived at the Orange County jail and drove his client to the booking and release center where the deputies were waiting. Casey Anthony was handcuffed and placed under arrest. She was first arrested in mid-July on child neglect charges after she reported her daughter, Caylee, missing. Anthony said she`d last seen Caylee in mid-June but she was too scared to report her missing immediately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: After about 7:00 o`clock, when I still hadn`t heard anything, I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic. And I went to a neutral place. I didn`t really want to come home. I wasn`t sure what I`d say about not knowing where Caylee was, still hoping that I would get a call or, you know, find out that Caylee was coming back so that I could go get her. And I just was going to my boyfriend Anthony`s house, who lived in Sutton Place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you talk to Anthony about what happened to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, I did not.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you started thinking that something was wrong, which police agency did you call first, us or the city police? Or who did you call first? Who did you go to for help first to help try to find her?
CASEY ANTHONY: No one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no one. OK. All right. OK. Well, I`m glad we got that straightened out.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Mom, Casey Anthony, is back behind bars again. But this time, will it stick?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony arrested again. The mom of missing toddler Caylee Anthony turned herself in to cops today.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re...
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... worried that if we find that out that people are going to look at you the wrong way?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the reason you didn`t call the police before?
CASEY ANTHONY: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously, I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved, or my parents, which I know would have done the same thing. Just fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Either in a dumpster or now she`s buried somewhere. She`s out there somewhere, and her rotting body is starting to decompose because what you`re telling us -- and here`s the problem. The longer this goes, the worse it`s going to be for everyone. Everyone. The worse it`s going to be for everyone. Right now, everything you`ve told us, we`ve locked you into a lie.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, it was a crazy scene outside of the Anthony home last night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, no. Come on, let`s go. No! (DELETED)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One more time, I`m going to -- (DELETED)
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the scene outside the Anthony home. Right now, Mom, Casey, Anthony, back behind bars for yet the third time. Will it stick? Straight out to our producer, Natisha Lance, standing by there at the jail. Tell me about the new charges.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the new charges, Nancy, is one count of petty theft, one count of fraudulent use of an ID, and one count of uttering a forged check. Now, Casey came for her scheduled meeting with her confinement officer this afternoon, and then Jose Baez, her attorney, showed up not too long after that. Then they both exited together, came around to the book and release part of the jail, where Casey surrendered herself into jail, being re-arrested for the third time on those three charges that I just gave to you.
GRACE: So did it end up to be a more smooth event than the other times that she was arrested?
LANCE: It did. Absolutely. And most of the media was over on the other side for her confinement meeting this afternoon. And they left, came around to the other side. And this is a huge complex. So they had to go all the way around. So most of us were stuck in traffic, trying to get back around, didn`t really catch her getting back re-released since jail. Some of the media started (ph) to broke down a little bit early, came around earlier, so that they could get a shot of her going in. But they did it pretty smoothly, and Jose Baez, like he said, he wanted to surrender her with dignity and not have the, quote, unquote, "spectacle," as he called it, as last time.
GRACE: Well, they could avoid that spectacle if they would come clean about where little Caylee is.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Why is she in isolation?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, that`s the way she`s been ever since -- you know, she`s been arrested three times. Every time that she`s been to jail, she`s isolated from the other prisoners, just on her conditions. That`s what jail officials have decided. She sleeps alone, eats alone. Any exercise, entertainment purposes that she does in there is all done in solitary confinement.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Jason Oshins, veteran trail lawyer joining us out of New York. Also in New York, trial lawyer Michael Mazzariello. Jason, why is she getting special treatment, being in isolation? That is privileged treatment.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, it`s for her protection, as well as for the county`s protection. I mean, they don`t want such a high- profile defendant to, you know, befall some evil from anyone else in prison with her. I mean, it`s her own protection, as well as for theirs. It`s sort of prophylactic in how they`re looking at it.
GRACE: You know, bottom line, Michael Mazzariello, she is getting preferential treatment. You know what? Fine. Let`s talk about the charges. What do you make of them, Mazzariello?
MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they`re going to be difficult to defend because, apparently, they have her not only signing the checks, writing her own name and using a fake name, not -- other than her own, but they have her in the bank cashing the check. So she`s got an uphill battle here.
As far as the isolation, I agree with Jason, Nancy. It`s for the jail`s protection and for her protection.
GRACE: You know, she is looking at 67 years behind bars on these charges.
Out to Alexis Weed, researching the Florida sentencing guidelines. Even though she could get a sentence of 67 years behind bars on all these fraud charges -- we`ve got 10 charges, the charges piling up against mom, Casey Anthony -- how much time would she really do, if she were sentenced to the maximum?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, Nancy, that`s really uncertain. While the charges keep stacking up and while we are currently looking -- Casey Anthony is currently looking at these 67 years, she could get as little as probation under these current charges, if she were convicted.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait. If she gets sentenced to the 67 years, how much will she really do?
WEED: That`s up for debate, Nancy. It really depends on whether she were convicted on all of the charges that she`s currently facing. And even then, there are a number of circumstances which I`m sure you can ask the defense attorneys about, which may bode in her favor and give her the ability to serve not quite that many years. The probability of her serving 67 years is highly unlikely.
GRACE: Jason Oshins, the reality is, on theft charges, she`s looking at maybe two or three years.
OSHINS: Tops, Nancy. I mean, assuming that this is the only charge that she`s facing -- first time offense. Throw out the other charges, the other two arrests that she`s charged for, just isolating on this. News media outlets are always, you know, very forward about facing how many years. First time arrest, this is a misdemeanor...
GRACE: These are not misdemeanors.
OSHINS: They`re not misdemeanors?
GRACE: There are felonies in here.
GRACE: Yes, but the amount that`s at, say, $250 to Bank of America...
GRACE: But there are still felonies. The bottom line, Michael Mazzariello...
OSHINS: The courts are going to look at that, Nancy, very lightly. Really. First time offender, very lightly.
GRACE: The court doesn`t have anything to do with it, Michael Mazzariello. The judge can actually sentence her to the full 67 years. That is charge after charge after charge running consecutively, one after the other. But what happens is, you go in the system, and pardon and parole -- the pardon and parole board then determines how long you`ll really do. It`s a grid. Are you a first offender? Is it a violent offense? Bottom line, she could be out in just a couple of years on these.
MAZZARIELLO: She could actually do a split, Nancy, which is what I think will happen, six months jail, five years probation. Because it is a felony offense, I think she is going to do some time just because it`s a high publicity case and she walked into a bank and cashed a check.
GRACE: Out to the lines. To Sandra in South Carolina. Hi, Sandra.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening, Nancy. Watch your show all the time.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question and one statement. Put her in general pop, and they know her dad`s a cop or was a cop. They`d get the answers. Now, my question. Many people in this country have been charged, tried and convicted on circumstantial evidence and they are serving time. Why isn`t she?
GRACE: You know -- to Sergeant Scott Haines with Santa Rosa County there in Florida. Sergeant Haines, arrests have been made on less evidence than what we know right now.
SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL: Absolutely, they have. I think the investigators in this case want to make sure that they get as much evidence as possible before they take this before a judge and a jury. And I think that`s a smart thing to do.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The horrible thing that happened is -- this is the honest to God`s truth of everything that I`ve said. I do not know where she is. The last person that I saw her with is Zenaida. She`s the last person that I`ve seen my daughter with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know that`s not the truth. That can`t be the truth because if that were the truth, everything you would`ve told us would`ve been on the money. The addresses you would`ve taken us would`ve been on the money. Everything else would`ve matched. If you had told us the truth, we wouldn`t be here at Universal Studios, at a place that you`ve been fired since 2006, with you trying to explain to us, you know, you got an office and all that stuff.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: You are hearing audiotapes just released -- some came out Friday, more today -- of police interrogating mom, Casey Anthony, about the disappearance of her little girl, 3-year-old Caylee Anthony, now missing 13 long weeks.
Let`s take a listen to more of that interrogation.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re about halfway down that hill, three quarters down that hill, and it`s a pretty big snowball, which means that there`s a lot of stuff going on right now.
And I can tell you just for a certainty that everything you`ve told me so far has been a lie. I can tell you that with certainty. And let me explain why. Since I left you this morning, I`ve gone to every address that you`ve told me. I`ve looked up every name. I`ve talked to every person that you -- you wanted me to talk, or tried to.
I`ve reached out. I`ve talked to your ex-boyfriend. I`ve talked to Amy. I`ve talked to Tony. I came over here. I`ve already talked to all the employees.
And I found out all these names you`re giving me are people that either never worked here or been fired here for a long time ago, OK? So where we are right now is in a position that doesn`t look very good for you.
And this is going to be your -- your escape hatch, so to speak. This is going to be the point where you stop all lies and you stop all the fibs and you tell us exactly what`s going on. I`m just being -- you know, being straight with you.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because obviously, I know and you know that everything you`ve told me is a lie, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Not everything that I told you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Pretty much everything that you`ve told me, including where Caylee is right now.
CASEY ANTHONY: That I still -- I don`t know where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, you do. And here`s...
CASEY ANTHONY: I absolutely do not...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to me. Let...
CASEY ANTHONY: ... know where she is.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Did you hear that? Well, not everything I said was a lie.
To Leonard Padilla, California bounty hunter that first got Casey Anthony out from behind bars before coming off of that bond. When you were in the home after she was first released from behind bars, is that the way she answers everything, just goes round and round and round and none of it makes any sense?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Absolutely. She just -- you know, that`s her story and she sticks to it. And you can`t -- you can`t budge her off of it. I mean, you`ve seen better than two hours of law enforcement interrogation. They did a great job.
GRACE: Well, did you hear that part where they`re actually over at Universal Studios?
PADILLA: That`s correct.
GRACE: And -- and she`s led them all the way over there. They go through security. They go all the way up to where she says she works, and then she comes up with some lame story that, well, the reason she really went there is because she thought maybe security people would have seen Caylee. But whoops, she forgot to mention that while she was there with security.
PADILLA: And she also said that people that she had discussed Caylee being missing was Juliet Lewis (ph) and Jeffrey Hopkins (ph) and those folks. Jeffrey is a friend of the family and Juliet`s is a movie star in "Natural Born Killers," and she just takes a little truth and she builds around it and she runs you around in a circle.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. To Yolly in Florida. Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. We missed you Friday.
GRACE: Likewise. Likewise. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) when she said that she was at Universal and she had left work to go pick up Caylee, and after all the interrogation they established that she never worked at Universal, so where was she? Where did she work?
GRACE: She did work at Universal several years ago. To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. It`s my understanding all of this time, she hasn`t had a lick of work.
PETRIMOULX: No (INAUDIBLE) And in fact, it seems the way she`s been getting money is stealing from her parents and her friends. Multiple friends said that -- you know, that she stole money from them. I remember reading through those 400 pages, where one of her other friends that she actually called her up out of the blue and borrowed more than $200 from her. So while she hadn`t been working at Universal for over two years, she was finding other ways to get money, it seems.
GRACE: And she lied about working at TGI Friday`s and Sports Authority. I mean, there`s -- oh, at Fusian bar and lounge. She goes on and on.
Everybody, just released, more of those stunning audiotapes, mom, Casey Anthony, being interrogated by police. We are taking your calls live. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you now that everything you`ve told me is a lie. Everything that you`ve told me this morning, from Zanny, from the addresses, from Universal, from all these people that you`ve talked to, including people that you never told me their names and I found them and talked to them.
You know everything that you`ve told me this morning is a lie, every single thing. There`s one of two options right now. You need to tell me the truth, and we can work with that. Or if you continue down this path and continue lying, I can tell you that when this snowball gets to the bottom of the hill, the only person who`s going to get hurt is you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not true. A lot of people around you get hurt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your parents.
CASEY ANTHONY: A lot of people are hurting right now and...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you know what? One person could put a stop to that.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been trying.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember the phone call you were telling us about? Is that true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you actually talk with -- what day was that you talked to her?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yesterday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember what time of day?
CASEY ANTHONY: Around noon. It was from a private number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did she tell you? What did your daughter say to you?
CASEY ANTHONY: She said, Hi, Mommy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s it?
CASEY ANTHONY: And she started telling me a story, talking to me about her shoes and books.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. I`ve seen the search warrant, the sworn search warrant by police, and it states that based on the records, that phone call never happened. And then the other night, Cindy Anthony, grandmother Cindy Anthony, told me in person, yes, it had. She`s got the phone records. Why don`t they release them?
PETRIMOULX: You know, that`s not something that they`ve answered to reporters right now. And as you know, the Anthony family is, you know, not answering questions. A lot of what we hear comes through their lawyer. So she`s not really answering many questions.
GRACE: Back to Natisha Lance, standing by at the Orange County jail. Natisha, any movement on George and Cindy Anthony taking a polygraph? Leonard Padilla tells us he was there when they agreed and then reneged on taking a polygraph, the grandparents.
LANCE: No movement on that as of this point yet, Nancy.
GRACE: Everybody, we are playing for you audiotapes just released of the interrogation of Casey Anthony. And we`re taking your calls live. To Angelo in New York. Hi, Angelo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is this. They have her on videotape and they have definite proof of a lot of these charges they have against her, and enough to put her in prison, not in some isolated, cushy jail cell, I mean in real prison.
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And as long as they have definite proof, they can put her in prison and convict her. Why don`t they do that, let her sit in prison while they come up with plenty of evidence to charge her with murder, if that`s what is eventually going to happen? So this way, while she`s in there, maybe she will, exposed to real prison life, crack.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The biggest mistake was not calling you guys right off the bat. I understand all of that. It`s the biggest slap in the face, and I did that to myself. But the worst is I`ve done this to my daughter by allowing her to still be with someone else.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, she`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now, she`d be in the best place. She`s not. She`s with someone that I absolutely do not trust. And I`m absolutely scared that...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you don`t trust, yet was baby-sitting your daughter for a year?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t trust her now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Lisa Boesky, psychologist and author. Doctor, what about the fact that on a couple of occasions, she actually laughed during this interview?
LISA BOESKY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, what`s amazing is, most people when they are being questioned by police would be uncomfortable, would be nervous, would even -- hearing these stories, they`re kind of saying, you know, You could be someone that killed your daughter. Being accused of that would make you upset. She is acting like they are talking over bacon and eggs. She is chatting with them, or non-responsive at all, completely abnormal and very scary.
GRACE: Lisa, what does it mean that her lies are so elaborate?
BOESKY: Oh, it`s -- she`s been doing this for years. She`s been telling people she`s been working at Universal for years, I`m sure of it. She is no amateur.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WELLS: Well, if you were in our shoes, what could we do to help you find your child?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I don`t know.
WELLS: What more can we do? Do you have a computer at all?
C. ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
WELLS: Did you ever send -- what`s the nanny`s name?
C. ANTHONY: Zenaida.
WELLS: Did you ever send any e-mails or did she.
C. ANTHONY: Her e-mail account bounced back. I`ve tried twice. I tried.
WELLS: Does she.
C. ANTHONY: Twice this morning.
WELLS: Does she -- have you.
C. ANTHONY: She had e-mail.
WELLS: Even when you all were in good times, does she -- would she send e-mails back and forth?
C. ANTHONY: On occasion. We would talk online. Not usually through e-mail, though.
MELICH: So you stayed at your ex-boyfriend`s that 9th of this month when you`re staying at your other boyfriend`s house, Tony, the rest of the month?
C. ANTHONY: He`d been out of town so I was staying over at another friend`s place while he was gone. I wasn`t staying at his apartment. I was staying with Amy and Ricardo and JP. JP and Ricardo own the house.
MELICH: So why didn`t you tell us you were staying there? We drove right by the house this morning, didn`t we, when we went today? OK? And you`re putting us in this folks` home which is another lie, right? Because Amy never lived there, am I correct?
C. ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
MELICH: OK. Why were you pointing at this old folks` home and saying Zeni lived there at one point when she didn`t?
C. ANTHONY: Because she had gone there before.
MELICH: You mean she went to the old folk`s home?
C. ANTHONY: Yes.
MELICH: But you never dropped your kid off to her at an old folk`s home. You never went into the old folk`s home. You went to the apartment with her.
C. ANTHONY: No.
WELLS: Is the baby`s daddy actually dead?
MELICH: That`s a good question.
WELLS: Would you -- how do you.
C. ANTHONY: I have a copy of the obituary at home.
WELLS: All right. Well, you`ve told us so many untruths right now, I`m confused.
C. ANTHONY: That`s.
WELLS: Would your parents be upset if you had given the baby back to the daddy and for his parents to take care of?
C. ANTHONY: He passed away last year. We hadn`t even talked much before that.
WELLS: So let me ask you this. So is the obituary in your office?
C. ANTHONY: No, I think I have a copy of the obituary at home. There was no office, so there is no anything anywhere. We have gone through that already.
WELLS: Right.
C. ANTHONY: So if I have a copy of it still, it would be on my computer at home. I`m pretty sure I kept that. I don`t think that`s something I would have gotten rid of.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Man, she can tell a whopper. You are hearing more of the just-released audio tapes of police interrogation of mom, Casey Anthony.
Mom, Casey Anthony, in case you haven`t heard, is back behind bars right now. She is facing charges piling up, a total of 10 charges, that could land her 67 years in the penitentiary.
What`s the holdup?
Let`s do, as an Angelo in New York says, take her to trial, get her some hard jail time, see if she cracks. Is that the only way we will find little Caylee?
We are taking your calls live and playing you this audio tapes just released.
Now very quickly to the lawyers. Did you hear that? Did you hear her say, yes, she took my daughter? She`s had her now for over a month. And I tried to e-mail her twice, but, oops, it bounced back.
Jason Oshins, thoughts?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, she is obviously very good and polished at what she is doing. I think you are right. Law enforcement`s intent is to get these small minor felony offenses against her and perhaps they could get her to crack when she`s in.
GRACE: I don`t need a lawyer to tell me that. Angelo in New York just called that one in.
OSHINS: Exactly.
GRACE: But what`s the likelihood she`s going to crack, Mazzariello?
MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, HOST OF "CLOSING ARGUMENTS": I don`t think she`s going to crack. She`s smooth. What I didn`t like about the tapes, Nancy, between the first interview and the second interview, they deemed her to be a suspect at that second interview.
It was an interrogation. She was entitled to an attorney. They should have Mirandized her, they did not. That bothers me.
GRACE: You know what? They did Mirandize her.
MAZZARIELLO: I didn`t hear that.
GRACE: I hear you chiming in, good point?
MAZZARIELLO: Well, that was at the end. At the end of that.
OSHINS: At second interrogation.
MAZZARIELLO: At the end they swore her -- they swore her, Jason.
OSHINS: Exactly.
MAZZARIELLO: . and said, is this true. They didn`t Mirandize her.
GRACE: They Mirandized.
OSHINS: At the end.
MAZZARIELLO: Is it true?
GRACE: . her at the beginning.
MAZZARIELLO: I didn`t hear that. They didn`t swear her until the very end.
GRACE: That`s because I`ve only played a few moments.
MAZZARIELLO: No, Nancy.
GRACE: As a matter of fact.
MAZZARIELLO: We heard the whole thing. We heard both tape.
OSHINS: At the end.
MAZZARIELLO: We heard -- in the entirety.
GRACE: There is a signed Miranda form. I assume she can read. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: So wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?
C. ANTHONY: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself. Because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again. And I don`t want to think about that.
MELICH: We need to stop this lie. Your mother has called me countless times today, OK? And that`s why our phone keeps going off. Countless times. Because your mother knows, your father knows.
Everyone around you knows that you have lied, completely and absolutely, from the get-go. Everyone knows. Why you`re not coming out with it and why you`re not telling us the truth, no one has an answer to.
The only person that has an answer to that is you. And this is what we`re trying to implore upon you. You need to tell us the truth about what happened to Caylee. It`s not as if she is with someone and you didn`t call -- that`s not the truth.
C. ANTHONY: It is the truth.
MELICH: That`s not the truth. You need to tell us.
C. ANTHONY: Absolutely the truth.
MELICH: No, it`s not the truth. We can`t get past that unless you go ahead and tell us the truth.
C. ANTHONY: There is nothing to get past, because that is the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines to Sharon in Wisconsin, hi, Sharon.
SHARON, WISCONSIN RESIDENT: Hi. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
SHARON: I want to know is -- her mother keeps claiming that they`re getting leads in Mexico on little Caylee.
GRACE: Yes.
SHARON: Why aren`t they over there checking Mexico out? And is there any proof to these phone calls that her mother has been getting?
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at the Orange County jail, why aren`t they in Mexico following up on those leads? And what about the rest of the question, Natisha?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Cindy Anthony says that these are tips that she has turned over to the Orange County Sheriff`s Department. However, they have not followed up on these tips.
But according to them, they said that they are following up on every tip that is credible.
GRACE: Let`s go out to famed forensic scientist joining us tonight, Lawrence Kobilinsky.
Kobe, thank you for being with us.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Pleasure.
GRACE: Question. Every day that she stone walls and Caylee`s remains are not found, is another day of decomposition. What does it mean to you?
KOBILINSKY: Well, it means that, as time goes on, as a body decays, evidence is lost. I mean, if the child is deceased and it`s been three months, then valuable evidence is being lost on clothing, on the body, cause of death may never be known.
And the case now hinges on physical evidence that is available, rather than the evidence that is not available.
GRACE: We are taking a look at some of that evidence right now. It is called behavioral evidence.
Take a listen to what mom Casey Anthony says in these newly-released audio tapes of her interrogation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: Our purpose in coming here was to do what? Go where?
C. ANTHONY: I guess there wasn`t a purpose. There wasn`t a purpose whatsoever to come up here.
ALLEN: So we`re wasting time, valuable time, we ought to be spending looking for your daughter.
C. ANTHONY: I`m trying to think of places.
ALLEN: No, I.
C. ANTHONY: . where I know she`s been.
ALLEN: You`re not answering my question. Do you want us to help.
C. ANTHONY: Yes.
ALLEN: . find your daughter?
C. ANTHONY: I do want you to help.
ALLEN: Well, then you need to help me -- a good starting point would be to answer the questions, OK? If I say you were here because and then you just ignore that, like as if I never asked it, and go off in some other direction, does that answer the question?
C. ANTHONY: No.
ALLEN: OK. All right. Let`s go through this again. We`re here because? We got here how? To do what?
C. ANTHONY: Because I lied. Because I brought you up here. And honestly, I was reaching for.
ALLEN: No, stop right there. I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to help us find your daughter.
C. ANTHONY: It`s not going to.
ALLEN: Huh?
C. ANTHONY: It`s not going to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter from California who first helped Casey Anthony get out behind bars, then came off that bond, the sound we just played a few moments ago where police confronted her about pointing to an apartment and being able to say, well, she also lived there. It`s an old folks` home.
And my question is, even if there really is a Zenaida Gonzalez, which there`s not, that she left the baby with, if that were true, why would she tell police the wrong address for the woman?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED PUT CASEY ANTHONY BACK IN JAIL: Well, the -- reason she took them and told them about Apartment 210 is because she has friends that live at 218. There`s also another thing that`s very interesting. That just came up here in the last week.
There is a William Waters that works at a restaurant down the street from where her boyfriend Anthony lives, and somebody linked Zenaida Gonzalez, who was the one that filled out the application at the Saw Grass Apartments.
GRACE: Saw Gras Apartments.
PADILLA: They linked her through a Laura Rose, trying to make it look like she had communication with Lee and Casey through William Waters. I don`t know exactly what that means, and I don`t know if law enforcement has checked that out. But, obviously, it was a ruse to see...
GRACE: Leonard, you have been in the home. I believe that Cindy and George are getting these tips. Are they?
PADILLA: No. No.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELICH: Zeni has never worked here. How do you explain that?
C. ANTHONY: She has an ID, she has ID with her name on it.
MELICH: Just like you have an ID?
C. ANTHONY: I do have an ID somewhere at my house. Both of my parents have seen it. Both of my parents knows that I work here?
MELICH: Just like you have an office?
C. ANTHONY: I used to have an office.
MELICH: Now. Just like you have an office?
C. ANTHONY: No, I don`t have an office now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELICH: Everything you`ve told us is a lie. You`re looking me in the eyes, you`re looking at -- everything you`ve told us is a lie. Every single thing. And you can`t.
C. ANTHONY: No, it isn`t.
MELICH: Yes. And you can`t keep sitting here and telling us the same thing and getting constantly over and over and over again. We disproving everything that you`re telling us. You`re telling us that you lied to us. You`re telling us you`re giving us misinformation. Everything you`re telling us, OK? This needs to end.
C. ANTHONY: The truthful thing.
MELICH: This needs to end.
C. ANTHONY: . is I have not seen my daughter. The last time that I saw her was on the 9th of June.
MELICH: And what happened to Caylee?
C. ANTHONY: I don`t know.
MELICH: Sure, you do.
C. ANTHONY: I don`t know.
MELICH: Something happened to Caylee. We`re not going to discuss the last time you saw her. I`m guessing something bad happened to her sometime ago and you haven`t seen her. So that part is true, if you say you haven`t seen her because she`s somewhere else right now.
C. ANTHONY: She`s with someone else.
I`m sorry I`ve given you guys the run-around.
WELLS: Well, we`re not trying to be big scary guys.
C. ANTHONY: Oh, I know and.
WELLS: We`re just trying to make sure we get accurate information so we have something to work off of.
C. ANTHONY: I understand that. I just wish I honestly had more things to help with.
The biggest mistake was not calling you guys right off the bat. I understand all of that. It`s the biggest slap in the face and I did that to myself. But the worse is I`ve done this to my daughter, by allowing her to still be with someone else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Even now, still lying. She tells cops the last time she saw her daughter was the 9th? We all know it was the 16th, at least, if not later, the day after Father`s Day, back in June.
We are taking your calls live, out to Cheryl in Nevada. Hi, Cheryl.
CHERYL, NEVADA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I have a quick question. I wanted to know, are the police still physically looking for this little girl in Florida?
GRACE: Excellent question. Out to Natisha Lance, standing by at the jail. What`s the slow down in the searches? When is it going to resume?
LANCE: Well, Nancy, one of the things that`s slowed down the search has been the water levels. And they`re saying that the -- the areas have not looked the same as when Casey would have presumably went missing. So it`s making it difficult for them to search right now.
And they were a little bit afraid of going over these areas, and if -- her body is out there, possibly, messing up any type of evidence and possibly pushing her body down into the mud a little bit more. So they are still taking in those tips, as they come in. And if there are any credible leads, they are following up on them.
GRACE: Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, that really doesn`t make sense. They`re not searching because it doesn`t look the same because of the water level?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, you know, the other thing is that they have basically said that based on the evidence they have found that, you know, they think she is dead.
So, you know, that`s the worst she could be. She could be anywhere. They have already looked through a lot of the wooded areas that are by her house where, you know, those cell phone records pinged off of. We also have the people from Texas, the Equusearch.
You know they were out there for days, searching through the area. There`s a lot of wooded area around central Florida here and for them to just blindly search, I would say, would seem kind of pointless at this time, unless they had some hard evidence as to where they thought they were.
And as we know, Casey is not saying anything as to that.
GRACE: Yes, a blind search would be fruitless.
Back to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Leonard, I told you that I believe the Anthonys were getting tipped and you said no, they`re not?
PADILLA: I don`t think they are getting any tips. If they were, they would be forwarding them to law enforcement immediately. When I talked to them when I was originally there, there was a couple of tips that we ourselves followed up and law enforcement had followed them up and then proved to be fruitless.
GRACE: So what`s all this about Mexico and Puerto Rico and Texas?
PADILLA: The thing about is that -- it`s wishing beyond reality by Cindy. It`s a distraction right now to law enforcement. George and Cindy know the truth. Lee has no doubt told Cindy the truth that has been relayed to him by Casey. So it`s a -- it`s a total distraction. They`ve lost a granddaughter. Now they`re hoping against hope.
GRACE: Why so you so convinced they know the truth?
PADILLA: Their attitude took a complete change after the University of Tennessee and the DNA results came out. Their whole attitude changed and went into a defensive posture for Casey.
Prior to that, it had been a situation where they were willing to see if Casey would talk to somebody, do something. After that, it became totally defensive on behalf of Casey. There`s other things.
Let me explain something to you. There`s also an individual that on the evening of the 26th, Casey had several conversations with him. A fellow by the name of Mark Hawkins, a Marine stationed at 29 Palms.
It would be very interesting for him to talk to somebody about those conversations he had with Casey the night before her car was found at 7:00 a.m. at that check-cashing place.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right. And we have no reason to believe cops haven`t spoken to him. Do you?
PADILLA: I don`t know if they have or if they haven`t. But it would be very interesting to see what a Marine would have to say, because if there is anybody that she trusted to tell the truth to about what happened to her daughter, it would be Mark Hawkins.
GRACE: I don`t see her telling anybody.
To Chris in Florida, hi, Chris.
CHRIS, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
CHRIS: Caylee was supposedly -- is supposedly -- supposed to have been a kidnapped child. Why wasn`t the FBI ever brought in, and if so, with all their resources, couldn`t they cut through all of this baloney?
GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx, it`s my understanding the FBI has been brought in.
PETRIMOULX: That`s right, from the very beginning. The FBI and FBLE were involved in this case. So, you know, we would assume that the vast expansive resources of the FBI have been available since the beginning.
GRACE: Take a listen to more of the interrogation of mom Casey Anthony. These audio tapes just released today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: So, wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?
C. ANTHONY: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again. And I don`t want to think about it.
MELICH: So why did you do it?
C. ANTHONY: Honestly, I wanted to come up and try to talk to security. Maybe pass around a picture of Caylee. I legitimately have not seen my daughter in five weeks. I didn`t let anything happen to her, except I trusted her with somebody.
Somebody that has been taking care of her, that had been taking good care of her. Somebody that she was comfortable with, that I was comfortable with.
MELICH: What about -- what about Jeff? You said Jeff worked here until about two months ago?
C. ANTHONY: No, he hasn`t worked here for quite a while.
MELICH: Ten months? How long?
C. ANTHONY: By at least 10 months.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: If the main thing you want to do is find your daughter, and you don`t think lying to us is going to help us find her, why would you do that?
C. ANTHONY: Because I`m scared and I know I`m running out of options. It`s been a month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That doesn`t even make any sense, Doctor Boesky, why are you lying to us? Because I`m scared? She should be scared and go to police to find her daughter.
LISA BOESKY, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO WORRY": Absolutely. The only time we heard any emotion out of her voice is when she was talking about her mom. And I think with her mom, she`s just afraid that her mom is finally going to be done with her.
Her mom knows all the bad things she`s done and she supported her all this time. I think she`s worried that her mom is going to leave her and she will be alone. She is right about what she said, though, she is running out of options.
GRACE: To Shelly in Canada, hi, Shelly.
SHELLY, CANADIAN CITIZEN: Hi, Nancy. How are you this evening?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
SHELLY: My question is, I don`t understand how she has so much free time to be, you know, going to her lawyer`s office, hanging out for hours. And why isn`t she in the police station, still being interrogated.
GRACE: You know, to Drew Petrimoulx, not only being interrogated, well, once you have a lawyer and invoke your Miranda rights, they can`t -- they cannot question you anymore. But is she doing anything to help find her daughter, Drew?
PETRIMOULX: No, we really don`t know what exactly she is doing. I mean she comes out of her house, she goes into her lawyer`s house, she comes back, gets right in the car and, you know, she`s swept away and right back into her house at home.
So, you know, besides from what we see for those brief seconds, we have no idea what she`s doing.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Major Mark Rosenberg, 32, Miami Lake, Florida, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. A graduate of Florida International University and New Mexico Military Institute.
Remembered for an infectious laugh, loved scuba, playing Wii, dancing, spending time with his big sister Laurie, the two so close they had their weddings one day apart.
Leaves behind grieving parents, Burton and Sheila, brother Neal, widow Julie, toddler boys, Maxwell and Joshua.
Mark Rosenberg, American her hero.
Thanks to our guests but mostly to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night for a New York friend of the show, talented graphics artist, Shannon Vamershik, And special happy birthday to our show`s star, the executive producer, Dean Secoli(ph).
Happy birthday, friend.
Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
