Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Released From Jail for Third Time
Aired September 16, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. After yet a third arrest, in the last hours, mom, Casey Anthony, walks free, free on a measly $1,250 bond. The judge orders mom, Casey, to stay away from the fraud victim, the so-called friend whose checking account Casey Anthony wiped out, Anthony ordered not to even have contact with the victim. This while meetings between the Anthony family and investigators come to a screeching halt. Why?
The investigation leads detectives to travel out of state. With mom, Casey, facing new charges that could land her 67 years behind bars, she continues to stonewall police. Tonight, more stunning audiotapes surface of police are interrogating her. We hear in her own words her refusal to cooperate, even laughing at times, offering no clues as to her little girl`s whereabouts.
The defense in a corner, lashing out, attacking highly sophisticated forensic results and even suggesting police and lab techs don`t want the truth. And now reports emerge polygraphs have been taken. By whom? And why haven`t the Anthonys stepped up for lie detector tests themselves? Shouldn`t they be the first ones in line? As we wait for formal charges in the disappearance of the little 3-year-old, tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once again, 22-year-old Casey Anthony bonds out at the Orange County jail. With her attorney by her side and two bodyguards, she never utters a word.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won`t you tell what you know about Caylee?
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: I think the reason behind it is nothing more than police intimidation. I think we`re all seeing the games that are being played. I`m not intimidated, not in any way, shape or form.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: No, she`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now, she`d be in the best place. She`s not. She`s with someone that I absolutely do not trust. And I`m absolutely scared that...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you don`t trust, yet was baby-sitting your daughter for a year?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t trust her now because of what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What point did you stop trusting her?
CASEY ANTHONY: The moment that her phone was cut off and I couldn`t get in contact with my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you thought, Man, something ain`t right.
CASEY ANTHONY: Something`s wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you started thinking that something was wrong, which police agency did you call first, us or the city police? Or who did you call first? Who did you go to for help first to help try to find her?
CASEY ANTHONY: No one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no one. OK. All right. OK. Well, I`m glad we got that straightened out.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. For a third time, mom, Casey Anthony, walks free from jail. Ridiculous!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on count one, 150 on count two, 100 on count three, and no contact with the victim, Amy Huizenga. Do you understand, Ms. Anthony?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony out of jail again. Casey`s lawyer furious by this whole revolving door thing. He says the sheriff`s department is just playing games by arresting Casey over and over again.
BAEZ: If the state of Florida wants to play these games, they want to waste your tax dollars and your resources, you know, I think that`s for everyone to stand up and complain about. They sent their top cops in there. They questioned her for hours without an attorney. They got nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I purposely misled you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so you purposely misled us. This was all an attempt to help find your daughter, right? That makes sense to you, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Again, and in a backwards sort of way, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a backwards sort of way?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m coming back to places that are familiar to me that I know are familiar to her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That makes sense to you? It makes sense to you that, I`m trying to help the police find my daughter by giving them a bunch of bad addresses? That makes sense to you?
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s what I said, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I`m asking you. That makes sense to you? My attempt...
CASEY ANTHONY: That part of it, no, not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My attempt to help him find my child -- OK, what I`ve done to help him find my child is I`ve given him a whole bunch of addresses to go to that are bad addresses. That`s what I did to help him try to find my child. That makes sense to you?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newsradio. Mark, what`s the latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSRADIO 1150: Well, Casey got her third "Get out of jail free" card today.
GRACE: Ridiculous!
WILLIAMS: Oh, hey, you know, no doubt about it. But she`s allowed to do that. The Kissimmee bail bondsman posting $1,250 to get her out of jail free.
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! And what`s all of this business about the defense attorney talking about how wise the judge is for giving a low bond? The state didn`t ask for any more of a bond.
WILLIAMS: That`s normal bond in a case like this.
GRACE: Exactly.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GRACE: So why is he acting like the prosecution tried to get a huge bond and the judge said no? That`s not what happened.
WILLIAMS: No, of course not. Again, you know, these are normal bond procedures for these sort of charges. I mean, we`re just talking fraudulent check charges, basically, from -- brought by Amy Huizenga.
GRACE: Well, you know...
WILLIAMS: This is -- this is...
GRACE: ... I wonder if you`d say that if it was your checking account that got cleaned out. I wouldn`t be to happy.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, this is just posturing, I think, by Jose Baez because he`s trying to put the best spin on this that he can.
GRACE: Oh, and speaking of the defense and their motions, have you seen this motion suggesting that the crime lab technicians don`t want the truth? Have you seen this?
WILLIAMS: I`ve just -- it just crossed upon my desk just a couple of minutes ago. But I think the crime lab techs want to get to the bottom of this, like the investigators do. And I would think that Jose Baez would want the same thing, justice for his client.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Mom, Casey Anthony, has waltzed back out of the Orange County jail.
To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the Anthony home. What happened?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, they had a larger area blocked off today so that media could not get very close to Casey right until the very end, when she was able to get into the car. Jose Baez went in with those two security guards that were with him last time when Casey was released. She went into the -- they went into the jail. She came out, security guards in front, Jose Baez behind. Casey walked out head held high. She seemed much more confident this time, wearing sunglasses as she was arrested in, her "Find Caylee" T-shirt and rosary beads, and they were off once again...
GRACE: Rosary beads?
LANCE: ... to the house...
GRACE: Are they Catholic?
LANCE: Rosary beads. No. From my information, no, they are not Catholic.
GRACE: She`s got rosary beads?
LANCE: Yes. From what I`m hearing, they were given to the family by some close friends to help them pray in the search for Caylee.
GRACE: OK. She came out wearing dark sunglasses with her head held high? Did I just hear that?
LANCE: Yes, that`s correct.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, veteran trial lawyer Joe Episcopo out of Tampa, Florida. Dark sunglasses, head held high? What is this, like the paparazzi is chasing her? What about it, Episcopo?
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s what you got to do. You got to keep that posture. Let`s face it, she has not told anybody what she did with this child, and that`s the reason they`re having difficulty bringing the charges. They don`t want to bring charges and have her beat the case, like Blake did out in California because there was no smoking gun. She`s not told anybody. You know how hard that is for a human being to not tell anyone?
GRACE: Very.
EPISCOPO: And that`s the reason why they can`t solve this case.
GRACE: You know, Ray Giudice, even Susan Smith -- remember her?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I sure do.
GRACE: Even Susan Smith, who killed all her children, managed to squeeze out a couple of tears for the public.
GIUDICE: Yes. Look, there`s been no question in the release of all her taped conversations while she was in custody, she`s pretty cold- hearted. She`s pretty emotionless and she`s totally defensive in her conversations. That`s explicit in all these tape recordings and interviews that keep coming out. She`s a strange bird. I think the other folks that have testified -- or commented on your show psychologically have proven that to us.
GRACE: Well, "She`s a strange bird" ain`t going to cut it at trial.
GIUDICE: I understand that.
GRACE: Although in this case, I do agree with you.
Everyone, we`re taking your calls live. The defense in a corner, filing motions claiming they want unbiased people working on the case in an unbiased lab. Do they think the crime lab technicians are going to get a raise or a promotion based on the outcome of this case? No, they`re not.
Out to the lines. To Jody in Connecticut. Hi, Jody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A question and a quick comment.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question is, were the backpacks ever found? I remember the grandfather saying the last time he saw Casey and Caylee, they left with backpacks. And I know that one of the shows, backpacks were found by the Orlando airport.
GRACE: Yes. Yes. A backpack was found. I`m going to get that description for you. It didn`t match the description of little Caylee`s backpack. But what was your comment, Jody?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The comment -- not that I want to compare these two, but if you went to compare Natalee Holloway`s mother, Beth Twitty, and Casey, you can clearly see how Beth Twitty went to the ends of the earth to try to find her daughter and Casey...
GRACE: You know what? You`re absolutely right. And to this day, Beth Twitty is still working that case.
You know, let`s talk about the backpack. Out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, I recall a backpack was discovered, but it did not match the description of Caylee`s backpack.
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s correct. The description of Caylee`s backpack was that it had a monkey design on it. It had monkeys on it. And this was deemed not to be not the same and potentially not involved in the case.
GRACE: Let`s go out to famed forensic scientist, Doctor Lawrence Kobilinsky. Koby (ph), this motion that was filed, where -- and I`m quoting -- they want "unambiguous or least biased analysis, which is not the primary concern of law enforcement or prosecution." They are attacking the government crime lab, as if the biology and chemistry majors and doctors over there at the crime lab want to frame Casey Anthony. As a scientist yourself, how do you respond to that?
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, first of all, attorneys obviously have to be zealous advocates, but forensic scientists have to be neutral and unbiased and they shouldn`t be concerned with guilt or innocence.
GRACE: This says to me the defense is on the run.
KOBILINSKY: I think they need to develop the facts and let the juries make decisions about what happens to Casey or not.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: My mom flat out told me yesterday she will never be able to forgive me, and I even told her I`m never going to be able to forgive myself. Every day, I`ve been beating myself up for this, every single day...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... not knowing where to go, what to do, running in circles literally because it`s all I can do at this point.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: The stuff that she says, the thing that she said -- she`s been right about everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of things did she say?
CASEY ANTHONY: She told me that I took advantage of her, and she`s right because...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how?
CASEY ANTHONY: ... for a very long time...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you take advantage of her?
CASEY ANTHONY: By using credit cards. When I had my own money, I still used some of her money. I went and bought material things for nothing...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... whether it was things for myself, going out to eat...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... spend a little bit of time with friends or went and took Caylee shopping. For whatever reason, I was extremely selfish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: I was extremely selfish for a few years, quite a few years.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And not just mooching off her mom and dad, now new charges of fraud could land mom, Casey Anthony, 67 years behind bars, allegedly wiping out a so-called checking account, a friend that was kind enough to loan mom, Casey Anthony, her car.
We are taking your calls live. To Wanda in Alabama. Hi, Wanda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I was wanting to find out -- I know that this young lady has been arrested on three occasions.
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. That is a waste of taxpayers` dollars.
GRACE: True.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What other alternatives will the investigators have in trying to find any tips leading to this young lady? Because obviously, her parents are protecting her to no end.
GRACE: You know, a lot of people, Wanda in Alabama, believe that these re-arrests are part of a strategy by the state to get her behind bars, to get her to break her silence. In fact, the defense has now attacked the state because of this last arrest, claiming that they are playing games, that they are part of a big conspiracy against Casey Anthony.
Take a look. "I think the reason behind it is nothing more than intimidation. Games are being played."
Ray Giudice and Joe Episcopo, the prosecutor didn`t steal the checks. The prosecutor didn`t march into Target and write checks or write checks to the bank to -- to themselves, all right? Nobody`s playing games. These are legitimate charges with videotape and forged documents to back them up, Raymond Giudice.
GIUDICE: Yes, that`s right. I disagree with attorney Baez on this. This is a normal processing. She got picked up. She turned herself in. She made her bond. She did 8, 12, 15 hours, whatever it is. That would be the case for anybody else that forged some checks or stole a credit card.
GRACE: What about it, Episcopo?
EPISCOPO: Look, the state, I believe, has enough evidence to go ahead and try a manslaughter case. I really do think they have that. And that`s what they should do. That`s basically where this is going to end up. If they try a murder charge, it might be difficult, but I think they can convict her of manslaughter. That`s a 15-year offense. She`s not going to get 67 years on the check. She only scores about three years on a score sheet. So that`s not the way to go.
And you know, you can`t use the bond process to get people to talk. That`s an abuse. That`s a constitutional right to bond. You can`t use that to waterboard information out of them.
GRACE: Well, there`s no -- thank you. Thank you. But there`s no suggestion that the bond process, as you call it, is being used as some tactic. The bottom line is...
EPISCOPO: That`s what you want to do! You want to use the bond process to put her in jail to force her to talk.
GRACE: News flash!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: News flash! I`m sitting in a studio in Manhattan. I`m not using anything to keep anybody in jail.
EPISCOPO: You would like to see that. That`s what you want.
GRACE: No, what I would like to see is a result in this case. I would like to find out, Where is Caylee? Is she dead or alive? And if you disagree with me, that`s your problem.
EPISCOPO: No, what you have to do then...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Out to the lines. Lana in Florida. Hi, Lana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are a lady tiger with lipstick, honey. You go, girl!
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you.
GRACE: Thank you, I think! Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, why didn`t Cindy and George Anthony -- I know they`re more worried about finding Caylee, but why didn`t they go through with filing their charges when Casey stole their credit cards and took money out of their bank account and took the grandparents` money out of their bank account? I mean, you know, Cindy could put pressure on Casey by filing charges, getting her to pay for those crimes. I mean, it`s tough love. You`ve got to do it, even if it`s your kids.
GRACE: To bounty hunter from Sacramento Leonard Padilla, joining us tonight. Remember, he first put up the bond, a whopper, a $500,000 bond amount to get her out of jail. He came off that bond when he became convinced that she was not cooperating with police and that little Caylee may be deceased.
You were in the home. You saw them interacting. Why aren`t George and Cindy one, filing any kind of charges when she stole from them and out of their own grandparents` retirement home fund? And two, is it true what you -- what you told us, that they are not -- they are refusing to take polygraphs?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: As far as I know, they`re still refusing to take polygraphs, even as of today. And as far as defending their daughter, I think, mentally, they`re at a stage where they`ve lost a granddaughter, they don`t want to lose a daughter. And I think they`ve -- they`ve thrown -- they`ve drawn that line and they`re not going to retreat from it. They`re going to defend their daughter, no matter what.
GRACE: Until the bitter end.
Everybody, new and disturbing audiotapes have been released of the interrogation of Casey Anthony. They just keep pouring out. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You pointed at the third floor window and you said, Well, that`s whatshername`s bedroom, and Zanny`s bedroom is right below -- is on the other side. That`s what you told me. So that was a lie?
CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that was going to help find her now, telling - - lying about -- lying about that bedroom and where Zanny`s bedroom`s was. That was going to help find her how?
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s not helping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then why would you do it? Because we are -- I mean, that`s what we`re here for, right, finding her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know what else to do anymore! If I knew where she was, if something had happened...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let me ask you this...
CASEY ANTHONY: ... I would have admitted that a long time ago!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think -- do you think -- do you believe thinking up more lies to tell us will help us?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s get past how we got to Universal Studios. Let`s get past why you talked to your daughter yesterday on the phone, having no idea where she`s at and haven`t seen her -- having not seen her for five weeks and you didn`t call anybody. Did you just think that one day, she`s just going to show up at your house?
CASEY ANTHONY: No. I sat around yesterday, trying to figure out what to do. I`m glad that I ended up seeing my mom, that all of that stuff happened, happened for a reason because (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re glad you saw your mom. Let me ask you this. You could`ve saw your mom five weeks ago, said, Mom, I don`t know where -- you could have called your mom five weeks ago.
CASEY ANTHONY: I was scared.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean?
CASEY ANTHONY: I saw my mom`s reaction right off the bat, and it would`ve been the same from the get-go.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We even pulled the surveillance video from the apartment complex. And they have to keep this by law for several days, OK? And we`re not seeing you over there. We`re not seeing you there at all that day. You think that we`re stupid and we`re not going to do all this stuff?
CASEY ANTHONY: I know you`re not stupid.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we`re not seeing you there. So now, if you`re not there and you`re not being seen there and somebody`s already saying that you`re not there, then everything else you told us is a lie.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: More stunning audiotapes have been released of the interrogation by police of mom, Casey Anthony. This as she walks free from jail yet a third time, obviously not helping in the search for little Caylee.
Back out to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. It`s my understanding police detectives are traveling to California to speak to you in person about what you know about the case. Why?
PADILLA: Well, I believe that Melich (ph) and the FBI agent, Nick Savage (ph), are coming out here basically to go over what we observed, the story she told us about what she had in her mind as far as what happened at Jay Blanchard Park, rather than at the department...
GRACE: What story?
PADILLA: Well, she told myself -- she told her mother and her mother related to me, and then she herself told me, and then she also told Rob Dick, that Zenaida and her sister, Samantha, had taken little Caylee away from her at Jay Blanchard Park, got in the car and drove off, and then Zenaida gave her a list of things to tell law enforcement for the next 30 days. I think they want to get...
GRACE: A list? Written list?
PADILLA: A written list of things to tell the cops, yes.
GRACE: And you know, it`s amazing, Leonard Padilla, that there is a Zenaida Gonzales with a sister named Samantha. So now we`ve got a co- conspirator in the kidnap of little Caylee, Samantha Gonzalez?
PADILLA: Well, she just -- she will start with one slight thing. And I think she came upon the name Zenaida Gonzalez while she was at the Sawgrass Apartments because there was a lady that went there on the 17th and requested some information on an apartment. And that`s how she got involved.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can leave, but you can`t sit here and take the consequences, can you?
(CROSSTALK)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I can face whatever comes my way. I can face (EXPLETIVE DELETED) just like you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter killed.
CINDY ANTHONY: I spend out here many nights.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know your daughter did it.
CINDY ANTHONY: When Caylee comes home, you will go to hell.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter to killed her, you know it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter`s going to go hell and rot.
CINDY ANTHONY: You don`t know anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the bodyguard says that Casey.
(CROSSTALK)
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m right here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I`m right here (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
ALLEN: So wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself, because there is that chance that I might not see Caylee again and I don`t want to think about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: You know, never do we hear any reports of her trying to help find little Caylee.
You are hearing stunning audio tapes just released of mom Casey Anthony`s interrogation by police.
We are taking your calls live.
Straight out to Natisha Lance standing by there at the Anthony home. I understand police are there? Why?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Police are here, Nancy, just simply trying to control the protesters who are in the area. And actually, a few minutes ago, I was handed this motion for reconsideration of denial and temporary injunction.
There was an injunction that was requested to have protesters move further away from the Anthony home, and in addition to trying to control the hours of which they could be here. That was denied.
But now there is this reconsideration. Police are out here trying to control the area, making sure that nobody gets hurt and making sure that the protesters stay pretty calm.
GRACE: Which lawyer is filing the motions?
LANCE: That would be Karen Wonsettler(ph). And she is with the law firm of Karen Wonsettler.
GRACE: You` are seeing a live shot now outside the home. Police back on the scene.
I want to go to John Van Achen, bail bondsman, who`s standing by also there at the home.
Mr. Van Achen, thank you for being with us. You know, today, Casey posted bond again and what I don`t understand is why her prior bonds have not been revoked, because she has been re-arrested.
Isn`t that a violation of bond?
Hold on. I`m going to come back -- OK, go ahead. Isn`t that a violation of the bond?
JOHN VAN ACHEN, BAIL BONDSMAN, ON LOCATION AT TOT MOM HOME: Well, it is, Nancy, if -- if it -- if the incident happened after she was arrested the first time.
There`s an administrative order here that says that if somebody is out on bond, then they get arrested again, they will go before the judge under a no-bond on the new charges.
Generally, what happens -- and that`s what happened to her last night -- she was given a no bond. She went before the judge are today, and the judge set the bonds that would typically off the bond schedule that we have here in Orange County.
But because those incidents happened prior to when she got arrested for the child neglect, then that didn`t count as far as the other bond being revoked. And it`s up to the bondsmen now. The bondsmen could have come off for bond and done what`s called an endorsed bond.
But they didn`t, they chose to.
GRACE: Mr. Von Achen, I.
VON ACHEN: . pledge this other bond.
GRACE: From what I understand you`re saying is she would have to have committed the forgeries and the bad checks after the initial arrest?
VAN ACHEN: And in order for her bond.
GRACE: To be revoked.
VAN ACHEN: The first bond to be revoked.
GRACE: Got it. Got it.
With me is John Van Achen, bail bondsman, standing there outside the Anthony home.
Mr. Van Achen, another question. Why is it that bail bonds people are coming forward now to get her out, when they wouldn`t come forward on that -- in the original $500,000 bond?
VAN ACHEN: Well, I think there`s two things. First, I think somebody else is behind the bond. I know that I have seen the bonds, and the Anthonys are the indemniters on the bond.
GRACE: Right.
VAN ACHEN: And they have -- they had no -- equity in their house. So I think there`s an outside source here. But the second thing is that she`s -- she`s very visible. And if she runs, she -- where is she going to go?
GRACE: Good point. Good point. So you do not consider her a flight risk.
Everybody, police have just shown up outside the Anthony home. It`s become quite the scene. There are protesters all over the place.
Just released, more audio tapes of police interrogation. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: I want you to tell me, OK, this is a -- I mean, is it that there is something other thing more important in your life right now?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
ALLEN: Maybe that -- no, but you were just weren`t kind of -- you just weren`t really focused on what you were saying when you told us? So - - yet kind of just accidentally told us you had an office here and we needed to be here because we might find something that would help or did you lie to us purposely? Or did you purposely mislead us? Which of those two was it?
CASEY ANTHONY: I purposely misled you.
ALLEN: OK. So you purposely misled us. This was all an attempt to help us find your daughter, right?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
ALLEN: That makes sense to you, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Again, in a backwards sort of way, yes.
ALLEN: In a backwards sort of way?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m coming back to places that are familiar to me that I know are familiar to her.
ALLEN: When the police do get involved, OK, when your parents involve the police in an attempt to locate your child because they`re worried, the first thing you do, OK, is you lie to the detective whose job it is to try to find your daughter and get her back into safe hands, OK?
You give them all kinds of bad addresses to look at, right? OK? So far I`m on track, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
ALLEN: OK. Then you bring us out to Universal, where you say you worked in an office to try to help find stuff that would help us find your daughter. And we`re on track so far, OK? And we get here, we walk up and down the hall to where you tell us, you don`t even work here. You don`t have an office here, OK?
CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
ALLEN: So far what I have said is true, correct?
CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
MELICH: We even pulled surveillance video from the apartment complex and they have to keep this by law for several days, OK? And we`re not seeing you over there. We`re not seeing you there at all that day.
Do you think that we`re stupid? And we`re not going to do all this stuff?
CASEY ANTHONY: I know you`re not stupid.
MELICH: OK? We`re not seeing you there. So no, if you`re not there and you`re not being seen there and somebody is already saying that you`re not there and everything else you told us is a lie.
WELLS: I can tell you for a certainty that right now, looking at you, I know that everything that you told me is a lie, including the fact that, you know, your child was last seen about a month ago, and that you don`t know where she is.
See, I am very confident, just by having talked to you this short period of time that you know where she is.
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t.
WELLS: You do. And here`s the thing. We need to get past that, because we can sit here and go back and forth all day long about I don`t, I do, I don`t, I do. It`s pretty obvious that everything you`ve told us, nothing has been true. You know where she is.
Now my question to you is this. We need to find Caylee. I understand that right now Caylee may not be in very good shape. You understand what I`m saying? She may not be the way we have already -- the way your family last remembers her.
We need to find out from you where Caylee is. This right now is just -- this has gone so far downhill and this has become such a mess that we need to end it. It`s very simple. We just need to end it.
CASEY ANTHONY: I agree with you. I have no clue where she is.
WELLS: Sure you do.
CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew any sense of where she was, this wouldn`t have happened at all.
ALLEN: How old is she?
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s almost three.
ALLEN: She`s almost three. What do you think she`s just going to take a cab here? I mean.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know she`s not.
ALLEN: How did you think she`s going to get here?
CASEY ANTHONY: Because she`s with someone else. If I could find her, if I could.
ALLEN: She`s with someone else.
CASEY ANTHONY: . track her down.
ALLEN: Wait. She`s with.
CASEY ANTHONY: This wouldn`t be happening.
ALLEN: OK, hold on a second. Let`s put this together where it makes sense, OK? She is with someone else who`s hid her from you for five weeks.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
ALLEN: Who let her call you on the phone yesterday, but then hung up. But you brought us here today because she might be here.
CASEY ANTHONY: She could be anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist -- Doctor., when you`re being confronted with the fact that your daughter could be decomposing and you just sit there and say, uh-huh, uh-huh. Uh-huh, what is that?
DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know, there are a couple of things that really jump out. One is the complete lack of emotion. And this is right after she has reported Caylee missing. There is no emotion, no remorse.
And the other thing is, she says uh-huh, but she is confronted and caught in these lies. She never says I`m sorry, which indicates she has no remorse at all, and just such little capacity for how she has hurt people. And it`s extremely selfish and an immature response.
GRACE: You know, I just had twins. And when I think of one of them being missing, I can`t even think about it.
TAYLOR: Right now, she is more a movie star than a mournful mom. And you know, with the sunglasses and the t-shirt tied up, it just -- somewhere in her life, she has been hurt so badly that she just does not have the capacity to care for anyone else.
GRACE: Are you making an excuse for her? Are you saying she was hurt?
TAYLOR: Absolutely not an excuse. But people like Casey just aren`t born necessarily. They -- you know, certainly, they evolve and things have happened to them.
GRACE: I don`t know, Doctor.
TAYLOR: Traumatic (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: I was with you until you got to that hurt thing. I think some people are just plain mean and selfish.
We`ll take it up after the break.
Everybody, AMBER Alert. There is a search right now for three siblings, age 3, 4 and 6, missing, West Valley City, Utah. Xiomara, Pablo and Alicia Hernandez, last seen August 31 with their dad. He does not have custody. He vanishes with the children.
Israel Hernandez believed to be on the run with the kids, possibly to Mexico. Police on the lookout for a black Escalade or a maroon Chevrolet Corsica.
Please take a look. If you have info, call West Valley Police, 801- 840-4000.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELICH: What`s the reason you didn`t call the police before? Since right now we`re here because your grandparents or your parents asked you about the child, and they were concerned and didn`t get an answer as to where the child was, they called the sheriff`s office.
Why didn`t you call prior to today?
CASEY ANTHONY: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which, obviously, I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her. And if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved or my parents, which I know was dumb to think that - - just fear of the unknown.
Fear of the potential Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.
WELLS: It`s important that you tell me. I mean maybe there`s something in what she said that can help us figure out where she is. What did she say?
CASEY ANTHONY: I tried to ask her where she was, and she just kept talking about the books that she`s been reading. We have videos of her reading the story. She was telling me the story.
ALLEN: So she seemed happy.
(CROSSTALK)
CASEY ANTHONY: Fine.
ALLEN: Seemed fine, seemed happy.
CASEY ANTHONY: She seemed perfectly fine. There was nothing in the background.
ALLEN: Telling you about a book, telling you she -- no sign of any type of stress at all?
CASEY ANTHONY: Not at all.
ALLEN: Great. That`s wonderful. Now let me ask you a question. Your daughter hasn`t seen you in over a month, and she`s not.
CASEY ANTHONY: She was excited. She was excited to talk to me. But at the same time, it`s crazy that she didn`t get upset when she talked to me which.
ALLEN: Yes.
CASEY ANTHONY: . had it been my mom, I know it would have been totally different.
ALLEN: Is that another thing that makes sense to you?
CASEY ANTHONY: She never gets upset when she talks to me, whether I haven`t seen her for an entire day or I had to work late at night, I didn`t see her almost an entire day until the next morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: If you had to work late at night? You don`t have a job. Why do you -- you know.
To Brian Reich, deputy chief, Bergen County Sheriff`s Office, have you seen this motion -- I don`t know if you have or not -- the defense motion to preserve forensic evidence and for the court to consider additional testing? Where it, basically, the defense attacks the state and even the crime lab?
Like the chemistry majors, doctors and masters over at the state crime lab want to frame Casey Anthony? Have you seen that? Have you heard about it?
BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: I have heard about it and I think it`s pretty absurd to think that the -- you know, the state is trying to frame her.
Nobody gets a bonus at the end of the day of trying to prosecute somebody and get a conviction for a crime they didn`t commit. Those people are dedicated to justice and I think they`re just reaching to try to put some spin on this case.
GRACE: Well, Brian, another issue.
With me is Brian Reich, deputy chief, Bergen County Sheriff`s Office. Another thing is the defense is now whining that they have not gotten discovery. Maybe I`ve been wrong all these years of practicing the law, but doesn`t there have to be an indictment before the discovery process kicks in?
Investigators are under no duty to say, come on over to our office and take a look at all our files.
REICH: Yes, I mean, that`s correct. In fact, to be quite honest, I`m surprised that, as much information has been released -- has been and I think that the defense has benefited from that.
And certainly, once they`re charged, once she is formally indicted, they`re entitled to all of the information, all of the notes and all that is discoverable. And they want to control the information. And that`s a very important part of any investigation, controlling the info that goes out.
GRACE: Out to the lines, to Donna in New Jersey. Hi, Donna.
DONNA, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
DONNA: I would like to know, with them trying to get this Web site up to get money for the defense, and the ridiculous statements that the defense attorney is making, who is paying for his representation?
GRACE: Who is paying for the defense attorney`s representation?
DONNA: Yes.
GRACE: Natisha, who is?
LANCE: That`s a really good question, Nancy, and one that nobody seems to be able to answer. There have been those rumors, however, about video possibly being sold, and Jose Baez benefiting from that and somehow brining that into the defense.
GRACE: Nikki Pierce of WDBO, any idea who`s footing the bill for this defense time?
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: It has never been made clear whether he took the case pro bono, or he`s being paid. No one really knows how he`s been paid.
GRACE: Well, Mark Williams of WNDB, let`s go through the process of elimination. Does Casey Anthony have a job? No.
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: No.
GRACE: Are the parents footing the bill? That`s the only possible alternative.
WILLIAMS: They don`t have any money. When it comes right down to it, from what we understand, they refinanced their house back in 2005. And, obviously, they couldn`t come up with the $500,000 bond or security when she was first arrested.
So who knows? Remember, there`s that Web site that has yet to go live.
GRACE: Right.
WILLIAMS: . asking for donations for her defense fund.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Raymond Giudice, trial lawyer out of Atlanta, Joe Episcopo, defense attorney out of Tampa, Florida.
Ray Giudice, this is premature for the defense to start jumping up and down and screaming. They haven`t gotten discovery.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well.
GRACE: Discovery means when the state gives you part of their evidence.
GIUDICE: You`re technically, absolutely, right. You don`t get discovery until the indictment is filed. You can also get discovery by asking for and conducting a preliminary hearing.
Everything else is being released. But he is trying to set the stage for when these crime lab reports come in or try to come into evidence at trial, he can say, judge, a year ago, I asked for these to be independently evaluated and observed. That was denied by the state. Don`t let these test results in.
I think that will fail, but that`s the foundation he`s laying.
GRACE: OK. At least you`re honest, that there`s not a legitimate precedent for that to work in court. But you`re right. You`re right. Raymond, he is laying that foundation.
But Joe Episcopo, it`s a two-edge sword, double up sword, because if he got -- be careful what you ask for because you might get it. If he got an independent scientist to watch the testing, then they couldn`t claim in court the testing was contaminated or a sloppy condition. There was mistesting.
They completely lose all those arguments.
JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. You don`t want to do that.
You know there was a scandal in the FBI lab in the mid `90s, involving certain agents and blood and hair. Cases were reversed and agents resigned.
GRACE: When was that?
EPISCOPO: So he`s - FBI in Washington, D.C.
GRACE: When? When?
EPISCOPO: In the mid `90s.
GRACE: So.
EPISCOPO: The mid `90s. Yes. It was a huge lab scandal.
GRACE: Over 10 years ago?
EPISCOPO: They haven`t really recovered from it.
GRACE: That`s the last time you know the FBI made a mistake?
EPISCOPO: I`m just telling you that maybe that`s where he got the idea.
GRACE: Thanks.
EPISCOPO: By the way, his legal fee is the publicity he`s getting. He was an unknown lawyer from Kissimmee, Florida. Now everybody knows him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To famed forensic scientist, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky -- Kobe, bottom line, what do you make of this motion the defense has filed attacking the crime lab techs, the police, investigators, why?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, if the state is to mount a homicide case without any body, they`re going to have to base on it physical evidence. And therefore, testing is critical for reliable and accurate results.
And the defense is entitled to independent testing. And I do understand why the defense is asking for this.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Rachel in Florida. Hi, Rachel.
RACHEL, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
RACHEL: Well, I have a question then I wanted to say a couple of things after.
GRACE: Quickly.
RACHEL: My question is, who is paying for her bodyguard for this entourage?
GRACE: OK. To Nikki Pierce, WDBO, who is paying all those VP body guards? I think they`re the ones that Britney Spears fired.
PIERCE: Well, we did speak to one of them. We managed to speak to one of them several weeks ago outside of Jose Baez`s office. And he said that he was paid by the Anthonys.
Now this new prop, the two gentlemen that walked her out of jail both times, we`re not familiar with them. But I`m assuming it is coming from the Anthonys.
GRACE: To Janet in Florida, hi, dear, what`s your question?
JANET, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Yes, my question is, Casey had stated that she was petrified of her mother and her mother would never forgive her. Don`t you think this is a clue that she knows where Caylee is and she`s afraid because of her mother?
GRACE: What about it, Dr. Taylor?
TAYLOR: Certainly it could indicate that she does have a clue. So, clearly, she`s the last one to see her. But I think it also highlights the difficult relationships between she and her mother and that`s something that we really need to look at.
GRACE: Doctor, you`re absolutely correct. Thank you for being with us, by the way.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Michael Lilly, 23, Boise, Idaho, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. He put army and country first. Loved football, guitar, golf, boxing, cookies.
Dreamed of opening a restaurant. Favorite music, heavy metal. Leaves behind parents, two brothers, and one sister, widow Lucida.
Michael Lilly, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And good wishes to our star, Alexis, a.k.a. Superstar, heading back to Northwestern to finish her masters.
Walk tall and hurry back, friend.
Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend.
END
