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Nancy Grace
More Formal Charges Against Casey Anthony
Aired September 19, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last 24 hours, new fraud charges come down against mom, Casey. Mom, Casey now facing 71 years behind bars. And there`s been another sighting of little Caylee? Is it legitimate? Mom, Casey, still digging in, refusing to cooperate in any way in the search for her little girl.
Tonight, more bombshell audiotapes released as investigators interrogate potential witnesses all the way out in California. We learn who and why, police zeroing in on an active duty Marine. Private cell phone records reveal mom, Casey, desperate to contact him in California, making late-night and early-morning calls obsessively, text messaging him every day during the time little Caylee goes missing.
The physical search for Caylee at a standstill, as grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony, insist the little girl is in Puerto Rico, Texas or Mexico. Why? What do they know? Tonight, where is Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports said investigators want to interview California friends of mom, Casey, one of them Marine Mark Hawkins (ph). He told police Casey Anthony called him in early July to say she was planning a trip to California and needed to tell him something. She told Hawkins her mother and brother know, but she wasn`t sure how he would react.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you call prior to today?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously, I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved or my parents, which I know would have done the same thing -- just the fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three more formal charges just filed against Casey Anthony for a total of 15. She now faces 71 years in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I started bringing Caylee over to Zenaida`s apartment.
I would usually drop her off. For a few months, we would go over to Jeff`s house. He lived over in Avalon Park. That was a couple years ago, almost a couple of years ago.
I have tried to find out just information from people, going out to different places, like Fusian, Ultra Lounge, and a couple bars that I know Zenaida had gone to downtown before to see if -- just kind of random talk, if anybody had heard about my nanny or talked to her lately.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you tell anyone specifically that Zenaida took your child?
CASEY ANTHONY: The only two people that I specifically told were Jeff and Juliet.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I have nothing to go off of. That`s the problem. I have prospective ideas of maybe where she could go. At the same time, she could`ve gone back up to New York. She could`ve gone up to Jacksonville, where we have a friend, she could`ve gone down to Miami, where her mom and her sister live now.
She was nonchalant with me the morning of. Everything was perfectly fine.
My one goal is, regardless of how it happened -- the thing is, I don`t care. I will lie, I will steal or do whatever I can to find my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...
CASEY ANTHONY: I put that in my statement and I mean that with all of my heart.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams at WNDB. Mark, what`s the latest?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, in Casey Anthony`s world, it`s something, I have to tell you. And she was at one time apparently planning to make a trip to see a Marine person, a person in the Marine Corps by the name of Mark Hawkins, and basically, she kept texting him from the 16th of June, feverishly, basically, I have something to tell you, and you may not like it.
And it came down to the point, she said in her text, her e-mail messages and on phone calls. that her mother, Cindy, and brother, Lee, knew what she was going to tell him. But she wanted to take that trip out to California to 29 Palms to tell him in person. We don`t know really what that is. He at one time -- Mark Hawkins at one time was a security guard at Universal Studios, where Casey allegedly worked at one time.
Also, a sidebar to the story. There is speculation circulating around the area that the father of little Caylee, missing since -- for the past three months, may have been fathered by a military -- a guy who is currently in the military.
Also just in, three more charges filed against Casey Anthony stemming from her arrest earlier this week, here in Orange County, those checks -- those charges stemming from when she allegedly took the check from her friend, Amy Huizenga. They were in her car. Amy let her borrow her car while Amy went on vacation. We`re now up to 15 formal charges against Casey Anthony, a whopping 71 years in prison if convicted on all charges, Nancy.
GRACE: Mark Williams, yes/no, is she going to be re-arrested on these charges?
WILLIAMS: That`s what happened on Monday. These formal charges...
GRACE: So these are those charges.
WILLIAMS: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: But now they`re formal.
WILLIAMS: Yes, they are very formal.
GRACE: OK. I want to go back to the Marine stationed out in California. So whatever she had to tell him, she had to travel to California to tell him?
WILLIAMS: That`s what she wanted to do. She apparently didn`t have enough -- how shall we say this -- enough gumption to tell him in e-mail or in texting or whatever. She wanted to tell him...
GRACE: Well, that`s amazing...
WILLIAMS: ... in person.
GRACE: ... because according to these phone records, she was texting him first thing in the morning and last thing before she would go to bed at night. And this woman, she would be texting and talking on the phone at the same time. And I mean, have you seen these phone records, to this guy, to that guy, to this guy and that guy, one after the next, some at the same time, to Tony, to Casey -- I mean, it goes on and on and on, to Sean (ph), to -- it`s all at the same time. That`s what I have hard time dealing with.
WILLIAMS: She apparently had -- had -- you know -- liked gentlemen. And she...
GRACE: Does she have any women friends?
WILLIAMS: I don`t think so. Just Amy. And of course, she considered Amy her best friend.
GRACE: The one she stole from?
WILLIAMS: What`s that, Nancy?
GRACE: The one she stole from?
WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes, that`s the only one. And she has obviously has screwed up that relationship big-time.
GRACE: I want to go back to this Marine. Natisha Lance, standing by there at the Anthony home, what more do we know about him? When was he ever in the same physical location with Casey Anthony?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we don`t know exactly when he worked at Universal Studios, Nancy. But what we can tell you is that he is a person who -- he actually contacted authorities and said, Hey, I knew Casey Anthony, just wanted to let you know I was speaking to her on a daily basis and this is the information that she gave me. He also went on to say that he believed that Caylee`s father is someone that Casey had a one-night stand with, and as Mark said, he worked in the military.
GRACE: We now have more bombshell tapes of police interrogation of Casey Anthony. Take a listen. And we`re taking your calls live.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back to your statement. You dropped off your - - you dropped off Caylee on June 9, and walk me through. You dropped her off to go work?
CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Get off of work and -- go from there.
CASEY ANTHONY: I got off of work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee, like a normal day. And I show up to the apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers. So I called Zenaida`s cell phone, and it`s out of service. It says that the phone is no longer in service. Excuse me.
So I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if maybe it was just a fluke, if something happened. And time passed. I didn`t hear from anyone. No one showed up to the house. So I went over to Jay Blanchard Park and checked a couple other places where maybe possibly they would`ve gone, a couple stores, just regular places that I know Zenaida shops at and she`s taken Caylee before.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned something before we went on tape about your cell phones.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. I have two phones. I had just received a new phone through work, through Universal. The phone won`t keep charged, so I use my old phone that I actually had gotten again through Universal for work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did you lose the phone?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that phone, you`re saying, was a SIM card and the SIM card had the contact information?
CASEY ANTHONY: Actually, the SIM card is in my Nokia phone, but I know there`s numbers saved to the cell phone itself. So if we get the actual phone, I know I have one other number for Zenaida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they`re not in your SIM card?
CASEY ANTHONY: They`re not saved on the SIM card, they`re saved on the phone. I`ve been trying to figure out on that new phone how to save numbers from the phone to the SIM card and switch them back and forth so that I have everything all in one piece..
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, veteran prosecutor out of Atlanta, joining us in our Manhattan studios, Eleanor Dixon, Penny Douglas Furr, veteran trial lawyer joining us in Atlanta, and Peter Schaeffer, defense attorney out of New York.
Bottom line, Eleanor Dixon, as you were listening to her speak during the police interrogation, did you hear her say, Nobody showed up at the apartment? Police already knew. Nobody had lived in the apartment for months. Of course, nobody showed up!
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: This is a great statement for the prosecutors to use because it shows lie after lie after inconsistency. And it`s so against everything she says.
GRACE: What about it, Penny Douglas Furr? If she`s your client, how do you get her out of all of these lies?
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, there`s no doubt she`s a liar, and I would come forward and I`d be the first person to admit she was a liar. And I would just explain that there`s is a long distinction between liar and murderer. A liar is not a murderer...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Penny, Penny, Penny, that`s OK if she`s lying about whether it`s raining or snowing outside or her age or something tangential. These are lies about where her daughter is.
FURR: No doubt she`s lying about where she is, but that doesn`t prove that she killed her, Nancy. And I firmly believe if they had evidence that she killed this child, she would be indicted at this point.
GRACE: Did you ever think, Peter Schaeffer, that they`re waiting for more evidence?
PETER SCHAEFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`ve got to be because the evidence they`re releasing now is weaker than the evidence that they had a few weeks ago. At least they had some forensic evidence. Now they`re telling you about interviews they conducted two months ago. Who cares about this guy in California?
GRACE: To Dr. Michael Arnall. What do you make of the hair that is allegedly Caylee`s that indicates she was dead when the hair was left in the trunk?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: That represents strong evidence that Caylee is deceased.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember the phone call you were telling us about? Is that true?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you actually talk with -- what day was that you talked to her?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yesterday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember what time of day?
CASEY ANTHONY: Around noon. It was from a private number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did she tell you? What did your daughter say to you?
CASEY ANTHONY: She said, Hi, Mommy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s it?
CASEY ANTHONY: And she started telling me a story, talking to me about her shoes and books.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So the phone where you have the number saved was lost.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. I filed an incident report.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, how did you end up keeping the SIM card?
CASEY ANTHONY: I had taken it out. I know I left the phone on my desk at work after I`d switched the SIM card back to my old phone because this was the phone that actually would keep charge. I want to be able to have a working phone instead of having a phone that would only stay charged for about a half hour and then it would die and I can`t make any more calls. It`s for me not practical.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So after you -- after you switched the SIM cards on the phone, what?
CASEY ANTHONY: I left it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: I know I left it on my desk. And I hadn`t been at work for at least three or four days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said you made a report to Universal or...
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, with security.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?
CASEY ANTHONY: Nine days ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine days ago?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: You don`t have a desk, all right? You don`t have a job. You haven`t had a job in years. You don`t have another cell phone that you switched the SIM card.
You know, to Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective now with Safe Now Project -- Bill, how do the cops contain themselves? They`re listening to all this BS, while the little girl could be getting further and further and further away, or decomposing. And this woman just goes on and on about losing her phone, and she filed an incident report at Universal when it was stolen off her desk. She doesn`t have a desk!
BILL MAJESKI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yes, it`s clearly a very frustrating situation for the police...
GRACE: How do they keep...
WILLIAMS: ... from the very beginning until now.
GRACE: ... a straight face?
MAJESKI: I`m sure they`re not. I`m sure they`re laughing among themselves. But it`s a difficult situation. Apparently, they still do not...
GRACE: I can`t keep a straight face!
MAJESKI: ... have enough evidence to...
GRACE: You know what? Hold on a moment, before I go there. But as I`m listening to her and thinking about all this time, Caylee has either been kidnapped and is being taken away mile after mile after mile as the car turns, or she`s decomposing. Those are our two choices. And the mom is sitting there, droning on and on about where she left her cell phone at work. There is no work, and the cops are just sitting there. I can hardly stand to listen to it.
WILLIAMS: It`s total denial. We can only hope that Caylee was taken away someplace and is still alive. But the other part of this situation is that if, indeed, the police believe that Caylee is dead, they apparently still don`t have a sufficient amount of evidence to go forward with it.
GRACE: OK. Hold on with that theory, Bill Majeski.
MAJESKI: OK.
GRACE: I`m glad you brought that up. Let`s unleash the lawyers again, Eleanor Dixon, Penny Douglas Furr, Peter Schaeffer. You know, Eleanor, you and I prosecuted together many, many years. And bottom line, if you think you`re going to get slapped with a speedy trial demand, you wait. You wait to file that indictment. You wait to take it to the grand jury until you are ready to put 12 in the box, to strike a jury of 12, because, like in this case, the case will probably get better over time. They`ll find out more the longer they have to investigate it.
If they indict right now, formal charges on murder or voluntary manslaughter, they could be forced to trial by the defense under the Constitution in about three months.
DIXON: Well, that`s true, Nancy. In Florida, I believe they have a statutory right to speedy trial. So the prosecutors are going to wait until they have it all locked down.
GRACE: What about that, Penny Douglas Furr?
FURR: Nancy, they should have waited, period, on all of the charges because then they could have kept her talking, they could have kept her confidence. As soon as they indicted her on anything, even the finance charges, she retained an attorney. He told her not to say a word. Then they couldn`t even talk to her. That`s where they lost this case.
GRACE: What about it, Peter Schaeffer?
SCHAEFFER: I don`t know if this woman has ever -- would have ever told the truth about anything. I mean, I still don`t think they have a case against her, but it`s obvious from listening to the tape...
GRACE: Peter?
SCHAEFFER: ... she hasn`t said anything that`s true.
GRACE: Peter, reality check.
SCHAEFFER: Yes?
GRACE: The hair belonging to the little girl in the back of the trunk, the hair has dark rings around it, according to sources, indicating it is post-mortem, after death.
SCHAEFFER: I agree, that evidence is horrific. However, it`s not enough. So you have that. Why haven`t they moved in? Why is she out?
GRACE: And you think that the cops are going to give her a "get out of jail free" pass because she managed to hide the body? I at least think that is their theory.
Let`s go out to the lines. Jill in Maryland. Hi, Jill.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: You know what? Thank you very much. Could you pass that on to the defense bar?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, definitely.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, Casey`s mother and father have never gone out themselves to help find little Caylee with the search teams and the individuals that donate their time. But why have they never stopped and actually publicly thanked them for donating their time?
GRACE: You know, Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento -- Leonard, why is that? You know them better than the rest of us.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, I think they`re focused on their immediate situation with Casey, their immediate situation with the protesters outside the house. And I don`t think they give much thought to the rest of the world unless it`s something that agrees with them.
GRACE: Well, I have to say...
PADILLA: They`re very, very focused inwardly.
GRACE: ... as long as they shelter Casey Anthony in that home, their hands are full, all right, Leonard Padilla, with the protesters and the angry group, some would call it a mob, outside the home. The police are called there on a daily basis. And the reality is, they don`t understand why people are so angry. We`re angry because a little girl`s life could be hanging in the balance, or her body is decomposing right now out in a landfill or a swamp somewhere.
PADILLA: Absolutely correct. If they`d have gone along with a situation where they`d have never had Casey taken to that house, if she`d have been removed to a safe house, they wouldn`t have the problems out there.
GRACE: Leonard Padilla, do you think that the brother, Lee, is changing his story? I noticed at the beginning, he was saying he had never heard of nanny Zenaida Gonzalez, but now he`s saying he`s known about her for about a year.
PADILLA: Well, he`s obviously changed his story, and Rob Dick can tell you how many times he`s changed his story since we first met him.
GRACE: Oh, good thought. What about it, Robert Dick?
ROBERT DICK, PROVIDED SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, he`s obviously changed. I mean, from the point of when he was there, you know, anything he could do to help us and telling us things, and down to towards the end there, where he was just flat lying. I mean, he was caught lying to our face.
GRACE: About what?
DICK: Well, for one thing, the attitude that Casey had about this whole thing. I mean, when the air samples came out, I know for a fact from a person that I have inside how she reacted when that came across the news.
GRACE: How did she react?
DICK: It didn`t bother her at all. You know, her comment was that a lot of people have had access to the trunk.
GRACE: You`re kidding?
DICK: And then in talking to Lee, Lee sits there and tells me, sitting across from me, how bad she acted, how upset she was. They almost had to call 911 because of her blood pressure, which is just complete BS.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the playground off to the right if you`re looking at the creek or the river?
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s two playgrounds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which one did she play at?
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s played at both of them, but usually the bigger one that stops where the "Y" is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. That`s the one she liked the most?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes because there`s more things to climb on and for her to run around. There`s usually a lot more little kids.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the fact that it was at the check-cashing place is just coincidental because you ran out of gas.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I ran out of gas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not like you went there...
CASEY ANTHONY: It wasn`t on purpose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to cash a check.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, I...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn`t go...
CASEY ANTHONY: ... didn`t go...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to the store...
CASEY ANTHONY: ... there to cash a check. No, I didn`t go into the store.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: I wasn`t abandoning my car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: It just happened circumstantially I ran out of gas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
CASEY ANTHONY: I had to call my boyfriend, Tony, to come and pick me up.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: It`s awfully early in the morning to run out of gas. Wasn`t her car spotted there at 7:00 AM, Leonard Padilla?
PADILLA: Correct. It was there at 7:00 AM. And to add something to that, there was a situation where somebody here mentioned about Mark Hawkins saying that there was another...
GRACE: The Marine?
PADILLA: ... military guy or something? Well, there`s a Brandon Snow (ph) that was a friend of hers that other people have alleged could be the father that went up to North Carolina recently. I think he`s in the Army.
But getting back to the car running out of gas, it was there out of gas at 7:00 AM. She`s on the phone to the Marine 11:00, 11:30 the night before. Last calls she made the night before were to the Marine.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WELLS: It`s important that you tell me, I mean maybe there`s something in what she said that can help us figure out where she is. What did she say?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I tried to ask her where she was.
WELLS: OK.
ANTHONY: And she just kept talking about the book that she`s been reading. We have videos of her reading the story. She was telling me the story.
SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: So she seemed happy.
(CROSSTALK)
ANTHONY: Fine.
ALLEN: Seemed fine, seemed happy.
ANTHONY: She seemed perfectly fine. There was nothing in the background.
ALLEN: Telling you about a book, telling you she -- no sign of any type of stress at all?
ANTHONY: Not at all.
ALLEN: Great. That`s wonderful. Now let me ask you a question. Your daughter hasn`t seen you in over a month, and she`s not.
ANTHONY: She was excited. She was excited to talk to me. But at the same time, it`s crazy that she didn`t get upset when she talked to me which.
ALLEN: Yes.
ANTHONY: . had it been my mom, I know it would have been totally different.
ALLEN: Is that another thing that makes sense to you?
ANTHONY: She never gets upset when she talks to me, whether I haven`t seen her for an entire day or I had to work late at night, I didn`t see her almost an entire day until the next morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. More of those bombshell audiotapes released of the police interrogation of mom, Casey Anthony.
Out to the lines, Alexa in Texas. Hi, Alexa.
ALEXA, TEXAS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for keeping this case in the forefront.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?
ALEXA: I was wondering about Lee Anthony, her brother. Is there any way that he can be hauled in front of a grand jury and forced to reveal what he knows about his sister?
GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Penny Douglass Furr, Peter Schaffer.
Penny, there is no brother-sister privilege that would protect their communications.
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s true, Nancy. He can be called to the grand jury, and he would have to testify truthfully.
GRACE: Eleanor?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Yes, he would have to, but he could always take the fifth if he was involved in something.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
Peter Schaffer, just because she may have confided in him, there is no duty under the law to go forward voluntarily and tell cops what you know.
PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. I mean, there is a crime called misprisonel of felony. But it`s never really charged. But -- I mean he wouldn`t testify without -- you know having immunity, I would imagine.
GRACE: But just being told something, Penny Douglass Furr, that you don`t get charged for knowing about a murder or about a kidnapping. You don`t get charged for that.
DOUGLASS FURR: Definitely not.
GRACE: Now if you actively lie to police, that would be obstruction of justice.
DOUGLASS FURR: If you interfered with the investigation and you talked to the police and you were untruthful with them.
GRACE: Right.
DOUGLASS FURR: But if she just confided in him, there would be no privilege and he would have to testify if he was called to the grand jury.
GRACE: I want to go back to Mark Williams at WNDB Newstalk 1150.
Mark, what can you tell me about an alleged Caylee sighting?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: We`ve had two Caylee sightings within the past -- just over the past couple days. The first one was in Deltona in Volusia County. And both sightings took place there. One at a gas station, somebody thought they saw Caylee, they jotted down the license number, called police.
Police went to the house. They talked to the parents. The parents produced a birth certificate. Took a couple pictures. It was not Caylee. Close, but no cigar.
A second one, deputies surrounding a house late one night after they -- somebody called the sheriff`s office, telling them that they thought they saw Caylee. They knocked on the door, went into the house, woke up the little girl. This girl was 5 years old. Her name was Caylee, but her name began with a K instead of a C.
Again, case closed on that one.
GRACE: Tell me how -- how was there such a mix up?
WILLIAMS: You know, little girls, as you know, look a lot like each other. And there`s a lot of little girls out there, 3 to 5 years of age. Some of them have a lot of the same facial features until they grow older.
It`s tough to say. But, you know, people are out there on the street looking for Caylee Anthony right now, and nobody can seem to find her, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, joining us right now is the father of one of the little girls mistaken for missing tot Caylee Anthony.
Mr. Putkowski, thank you for being with us.
MICHAEL PUTKOWSKI, DAUGHTER WRONGLY IDENTIFIED AS MISSING TOT: Good evening, Mrs. Grace.
GRACE: What happened?
PUTKOWSKI: I was at the gas station, and a woman engaged my daughter in some conversation and was trying to get her to say her name. But my daughter wouldn`t say her name.
GRACE: And?
PUTKOWSKI: And I guess the woman jotted down my tag number and was in about, I`d say two hours, the Volusia County Sheriff`s Office was at my house.
GRACE: So this woman thought -- took it upon herself to call police and report the conversation she had with your little girl?
PUTKOWSKI: Correct, ma`am.
GRACE: Where were you guys at the time -- where was the gas station?
PUTKOWSKI: The gas station is about a half a mile from my house. But I didn`t go right home, because I had to pick up my oldest daughter from school.
GRACE: With me, everybody, is Michael Putkowski. His daughter mistaken for little Caylee.
So the cop show up on your front porch. What -- was that.
PUTKOWSKI: Yes, I was kind of -- I was kind of shocked by the whole thing. And they did a real good job -- you know, like I said, within two hours, they`re at the house, investigating and everything and Sheriff Don Johnson and his crew did an excellent job.
GRACE: Now, Mr. Putkowski, tell me again -- where is your -- where is the gas station in relation to where the Anthonys live?
PUTKOWSKI: I live in a community about 40 miles northeast of where the Caylee`s house is.
GRACE: You just saw another photo from an alleged sighting of little Caylee. As you can see, people all over the state of Florida and beyond on the lookout for little Caylee.
This is another -- this is the first missighting. This is Caylee here. Let`s see the missighting photo, Elizabeth, where it was reported little Caylee have been spotted.
So did cops insist on seeing your daughter?
PUTKOWSKI: No, no, they conducted everything real professionally. And they just wanted the facts, and they come in, and it was obvious to the deputy that my daughter was not Caylee. And she took pictures. And we -- we presented them with all of the other extra information as far as the birth certificate and all of that.
GRACE: Everybody, with me is Michael Putkowski, his daughter mistaken for little Caylee. This shows you how people are interested, how people care about the case, how people want to find little Caylee.
Another sighting goes bust.
Mr. Putkowski, thank you for being with us. Let`s take a listen to more of those audiotapes of the police interrogation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELICH: Do you have any of these phone numbers programmed into your SIM card that you kept into your other phone?
ANTHONY: No, I do not.
MELICH: How long did you have this old phone?
ANTHONY: I`ve had the Nokia for almost a full year.
MELICH: OK. So after a full year of dealing with Zenaida and having her babysit, you don`t remember.
ANTHONY: Switching the numbers back and forth. Zenaida`s number has changed a couple different times. She switched services between having Sprint and having AT&T or Cingular.
MELICH: What about Jeffrey? You`ve known him for at least four years.
ANTHONY: His numbers changed a couple different times from when he moved from Orlando up to North Carolina and back down to Jacksonville. I know I do have a current number for him.
MELICH: How would you get that number?
ANTHONY: If we can find that other phone or I might have it online, I may be able to access it off the Internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Dr. Glass, thank you for being with us. Have you noticed that all of her explanations are extremely elaborate?
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": Yes, Nancy. And you brought that up earlier. That was very astute of you, because that`s what people who lie do. And when you listen to the tape, she goes on and on, and she gives a little bit too much information and too much detail. That`s off on a tangent. And that signifies lying.
Also, it`s very significant, it`s the tone of her voice. It`s very monotonous. Very matter of fact. And that`s causing concern, as well.
GRACE: What does that mean to you?
GLASS: Well, it means that she doesn`t have a lot of emotion tied into this. You wonder if indeed there is some sociopathy going on. Is she a socio path or what? The voice certainly tells a lot.
GRACE: Out to Robert Dick and Leonard Padilla, joining us from Sacramento.
Robert Dick, you met with police. They traveled all the way up to California to see you. Why?
ROBERT DICK, FORMER HEAD OF SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Well, to explain the difference in the story, where it changed in the park, as well as my interaction with her.
GRACE: And you were telling us about her reaction when it was revealed the air sample in her car trunk revealed human decomposition. Repeat that, please.
DICK: Well, I was told from the person that we had with her inside the house -- we were in communication. And it was related to me that it didn`t bother her, and that she showed no emotion over it when she saw it on the news, which was in contradiction to when I brought it up the same day later with Lee.
Lee gave a completely different picture of it.
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, they also met with you about what?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Basically, the same thing. They wanted to know the difference between the story where she turned the baby over at the Saw Grass Apartments to Zenaida versus what her mother and she told me about Blanchard Park.
GRACE: Everybody, a quick break. We are taking your calls, but as we go to break, a very happy 87th birthday to the number one fan of the show, Evelyn Addison.
Happy 60th anniversary to (INAUDIBLE) Georgia friends of the show, Betty and Morris Gaines(ph). Betty Gaines was the first female deputy in all of Georgia.
Everybody, these three never miss a show.
Happy anniversary and happy birthday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN: I want to go through this, and I want you to stop me at the part that isn`t the truth, OK?
You take your daughter and you drop her off on June the 9th. OK? At somebody -- at a babysitter`s house. OK? Now this is a babysitter that lives at this apartment, OK? That`s been vacant.
ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.
ALLEN: OK.
ALLEN: You just waked her -- you dropped her off.
ANTHONY: I walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times, besides just that day.
ALLEN: OK. And when you dropped her off, who took her at that point?
ANTHONY: Zani did. She took her that point.
ALLEN: So you left her in Zani`s care on June the 9th, OK? So far that`s right?
ALLEN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And no one named Zenaida Gonzalez ever lived at those apartments, much less in that vacant apartment.
We are taking your calls live.
Back to Mark Williams at WNDB. I want to talk to you about this incident report with the Orange County Sheriff`s Office. It says that Casey Anthony was planning a trip to California. That she needed to tell this marine, Mark Hawkins, something that she had already told her mother and brother, and, quote, "she did not know how he would react about what she had to tell him."
Now, this is while little Caylee is missing.
Who is this guy, and why does she have to travel all the way to California? At the time she should be looking for Caylee.
WILLIAMS: Well, you know, she`s had that 31-day search for Caylee, she says. But one thing I do want to correct is Mark Hawkins never worked at Universal Studios.
GRACE: Right.
WILLIAMS: However he had heard that Caylee`s father was a security guard.
GRACE: Father was a security guard. Yes. Just there`s so many rumors about who the baby daddy is.
WILLIAMS: You need a Philadelphia lawyer.
GRACE: You know, I`ve given up on that. And I`ll tell you who knows. George and Cindy Anthony know. You cannot have her march in one day and say, guess what, I`m pregnant. And then I`ll say, who`s the father? Of course, she probably lied to them, too, so.
WILLIAMS: Yes. And here`s the other thing, Nancy, is that the news almost had to be terrible that she may have been telling him, again, this is just speculation.
GRACE: I have something I have to tell you and I can`t tell you on the telephone?
WILLIAMS: Yes, all of a sudden you`re the father.
GRACE: My stars, she texted him morning, noon and night obsessively. Why couldn`t she just -- why?
WILLIAMS: You know, who knows? I mean I would have gotten on an airplane and gone to California or met at a halfway place someplace in like, Carnie, Nebraska, saying, let`s meet someplace, I have something to tell you.
You know but she never had the means, really, to go any place, because, you know, she was allegedly stealing from Amy Huizinga. She was allegedly stealing from her parents. And I think a trip to California was just one of her Web of lies, Nance.
GRACE: To Bonnie in Nevada, hi, Bonnie.
BONNIE, NEVADA RESIDENT: Hi, thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
BONNIE: I would like to know if the little girl was ever issued a Social Security card, and if so, has there been activity on it or a passport issued?
GRACE: Interesting.
Natisha Lance, what do we know?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we do know that she has a birth certificate, so we can assume that she probably has a Social Security card. As far as a passport, no, there has been no indication that Caylee actually had a passport.
GRACE: To our Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified pathologist, joining us ought of Denver. You know, Dr, Arnall, we all know the DNA results, the lab testing should have been in a long, long time ago.
I believe they had around 30 pieces of evidence to test? Unless they have DNA of little Caylee, what more could they possibly hope for?
DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: In terms of -- are you asking in terms of.
GRACE: Correct. Yes, in terms of proving the case.
ARNALL: My guess would be that they still have a hope of finding a body. There`s been some discussion of shovels used. If the -- if the child`s body is buried, there is still a chance that if they find that body, it may be moderately well-preserved, even at this time.
GRACE: You know, to Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective and now a (INAUDIBLE), I think Arnall is right. I think they`re holding out to find her remains.
BILL MAJESKI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, that`s a real possibility. That is certainly something that`s open to them, but as a couple of your guests mentioned, you know, there is -- an amount of time that they can now use to further their investigation in terms of talking to people.
In terms of this -- all of these text messages where she said she had to go out to California, I look at that, and I say that all she wanted to do was get a free trip out to California, hoping that he would say, well, let me send you the money, if it`s that important, come on out here and fly out and tell me what`s going on.
And she would have nothing to say to him. I`m not quite sure that he`s as much of a connection to this whole thing as a lot of people are starting think so.
GRACE: Yes, you know what, Bill? It`s probably just another lie, another guy she`s going to go live with or mooch off, like this whole list we see in these cell phone records.
Everybody, a quick break, and tonight, CNN HEROES.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.
WALT PETERS, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: All right. There we go. God speed. Come home safe. We love you all.
If it wasn`t for our soldiers and our veterans, we would not have this beautiful country. They are our freedom. It`s important that they know how proud this country is of them for their service.
My name is Walt Peters, and I`m often the last person a soldier sees when he boards a plane.
Be safe, we love you and take care.
And I`m often the first person they see when they return.
Welcome home, young man. We`re proud of you.
A friend got me involved with greeting the flights through the Red Cross. Now I`m one of the leaders, and I train my volunteers.
Three miles out, let`s go. Pull the wheels down.
When the soldiers come through, I walk around and talk with the soldiers.
Guys, it`s so good to have you all back home. I`m a combat veteran. I serve a lot of time in Vietnam. They know I can relate to them.
If you stay scared, you stay alive. You know what I`m saying?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
PETERS: Sometimes it breaks your heart because you ask yourself, which one of these beautiful people are not coming home.
I see the roots of our country and our future in every one of these soldiers.
ANNOUNCER: Get involved, CNN.com/heroes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtroom. Take a look at the stories and more important the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Casey Anthony back behind bars for yet the third time. Will it stick?
WILLIAMS: Well, Casey got her third get out of jail free card today.
GRACE: Ridiculous.
WILLIAMS: Hey, you know, no doubt about it, but she`s allowed to do that (INAUDIBLE) bail bondsman posting $1250 to get her out of jail free.
GRACE: Audiotape just released of police interrogating mom Casey Anthony about the disappearance of her little girl, 3-year-old Caylee Anthony.
MELICH: Did you cause any injury to you child Caylee?
ANTHONY: No, sir.
MELICH: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried if we find that out that people are going to look at you a wrong way?
ANTHONY: No, sir.
MELICH: You`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and haven`t returned her.
ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.
GRACE: Tonight with us, bounty hunter from California, Leonard Padilla. Your theory is there is an accomplice. What`s your theory and why?
PADILLA: Well, the situation is that she ran out of gas at the check cashing store on the 26th.
GRACE: Right.
PADILLA: And there was a tremendous amount of communication on her phone on the evening of the 26th and also on the 27th, when she called her boyfriend to come pick her up, that the car had run out of gas. And it goes on into the 28th, then it stops. So there had to be somebody giving her a hand at that time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Shaun Tousha, 30, Hull, Texas, killed, Iraq, on a third tour. A country boy, loved outdoors, playing horseshoes, riding bulls, football and dancing.
Leaves behind grieving aunt and uncle, Deb and Chester, widow, Cristy, two children, Colton and Maycee.
Shaun Tousha, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room. Take a look. There`s Brandon. There`s Brett, Elizabeth, Rosy, a.k.a. evil, oh and Stacy.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Easter, and until then, good night, friend.
END
