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American Morning
Vice Presidential Debate Highlights; Rating the Vice Presidential Debate; Polls Show Biden Wins and Palin Exceeds Expectations; House Could Take Second Vote on the Bill; Interview with Jesse Jackson Jr.
Aired October 03, 2008 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): High stakes.
GWEN IFILL, MODERATOR: We welcome Governor Palin and Senator Biden.
ROBERTS: The vice presidential candidates have spoken.
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq.
ROBERTS: On the war and economy.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It doesn't make John McCain a bad guy, but it does point out he's out of touch.
ROBERTS: Who won?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah Palin basically saved herself.
ROBERTS: Reaction from voters across the nation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Joe Biden has presented a clear strategy.
ROBERTS: And the moments of truth.
BIDEN: John McCain voted to cut off funding for the troops.
ROBERTS: Sorting fact --
PALIN: Barack Obama voted against funding troops.
ROBERTS: From fiction, the truth squad on the case on the "Most Politics in the Morning."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And good morning. Thank for being with us. It's Friday. It's the 3rd of October, the day after the big debate. And I guess the question from here on in is how much did this change the whole race, or did it change it at all?
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. A little anti-climatic, I think, for a lot of people watching it. I mean, it was civil. It was polite. Both of them got some of their points off. But as for the pit bull versus the attack dog, we didn't really see that last night.
ROBERTS: Nobody grew a horn.
CHETRY: Exactly.
Well, we're going to talk about it, though, right now, beginning this morning with the debate scorecard. There's a new CNN poll suggesting that 51 percent of people who watched last night think that Senator Joe Biden came out on top, but that Governor Palin also did a much better job than expected.
Biden giving a restrained performance instead of attacking John McCain's record while Sarah Palin pushed her track record of reform and stressed that she and McCain are a team of mavericks.
And we are just hours away from a crucial vote in the House today. It's on that big economic bailout bill. The Senate-approved version has another $110 billion of addition pushing the cost now to $810 billion. Those additions include new tax breaks, bank account protection. Supporters are hoping they'll entice more House Republicans to approve the bill.
And John McCain is cutting back on his campaign in Michigan and "shifting resources to battleground states Ohio and Pennsylvania." There's been a recent polling showing that Barack Obama has opened up a double-digit lead in Michigan, and the last Republican presidential hopeful to win the state was George H.W. Bush back in 1988.
ROBERTS: We continue with the "Most Politics in the Morning" here on this Friday. Joe Biden and Sarah Palin sparred on everything from foreign policy, renewable energy and gay rights. But when talk turned to the economy, both really tried to relate with middle class voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, I think a good barometer here, as we try to figure out has this been a good time or a bad time in America's economy, is go to a kid's soccer game on Saturday, and turn to any parent there on the sideline and ask them, "How are you feeling about the economy?"
And I'll bet you, you're going to hear some fear in that parent's voice, fear regarding the few investments that some of us have in the stock market.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I understand what it's like to be a single parent. When my wife and daughter died and my two sons were gravely injured, I understand what it's like as a parent to wonder what it's like if your kid is going to make it. I understand what it's like to sit around the kitchen table with a father who says I have to leave, champ, because there's no jobs here. I have to head down to Wilmington and when we get enough money, honey, we'll bring you down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: There were a lot of questions before last night's vice presidential debate. Would Sarah Palin be ready for it? Would Joe Biden come on too strong?
Our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, is in St. Louis and she's got some answers for us this morning -- Candy.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kiran and John, it was probably the most anticipated vice presidential debate in history and in the end everyone survived.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY (voice-over): Sarah Palin did not deliver perfection.
GWEN IFILL, MODERATOR: As vice president, there is nothing that you have promised as a candidate that you wouldn't take off the table because of this financial crisis we're in?
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is not. And how long I have been at this, like five weeks? So there hasn't been a whole lot that I've promised.
CROWLEY: But neither did she implode, repeatedly touching base with her regular gal persona, here decrying Wall Street's meltdown.
PALIN: Let's commit ourselves, just every day American people, Joe six-pack, hockey moms across the nation, I think we need to band together and say never again.
CROWLEY: She was the newbie but she went toe to toe on climate change, economy and Iraq, with a 35-year Washington insider.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Barack Obama has offered a clear plan. Shift responsibility to the Iraqis over the next 16 months, draw down our combat troops. Ironically, the same plan that Maliki, the prime minister of Iraq, and George Bush are now negotiating. The only odd man out here, only one left out is John McCain.
PALIN: Your plan is a white flag of surrender in Iraq. And that is not what our troops need to hear today, that's for sure.
CROWLEY: Eighty-four percent of debate watchers said Palin did better than expected. That's according to a snap poll from CNN and Opinion Research Corporation. But 51 percent said Joe Biden won the night. Polite and even warm toward Palin, Biden mostly debated the top of the McCain/Palin ticket.
BIDEN: I haven't heard how his policies can be different on Iran than George Bush's. I haven't heard how his policy is going to be different with Israel than George Bush's. I haven't heard how his policy in Afghanistan is going to be different than George Bush's. CROWLEY: She answered some questions but not others. It may not have won her the night, but she did take control.
PALIN: I may not answer the questions the way that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people.
CROWLEY: If nothing else, Palin seemed to have quieted conservatives growing concern she was not up to the job. The rest now is up to John McCain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CROWLEY: As one conservative leader put it, it got us back on track. That's all I wanted -- Kiran and John.
CHETRY: Candy Crowley for us, thanks.
Well after last night's highly-anticipated match up, the spin doctors took over weighing in on the debate.
CNN's Suzanne Malveaux got an earful from Republicans and Democrats in the spin room, and she is live in St. Louis for us this morning.
Hi, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kiran. You're right. There are a lot of people there was really no shortage of opinions here at the university. A lot of spin that was going on.
I had a chance to talk to representatives from both the Obama and the McCain side, as well as some neutral folks. And essentially, everyone said that they thought that Sarah Palin's performance improved since we saw those interviews that she had done. The question is really how much did she improve and what kind of impact it will have. That really depends on who you ask.
I talked to first and foremost, Obama's chief strategist, David Axelrod, who said, and I'm quoting here, he said, "A wink and a smile is not a substitute for a plan." Now, the McCain spokesman, Tucker Bounds, actually said something very different, not expected is that "she exceeded expectations that were too low created by people who don't know her record or her abilities."
Also had a chance to catch up with someone who is a little bit more neutral here. This is the former Clinton spokesman, Mike McCurry, who said that "Joe scored more points, she won more hearts. She's reassuring. People get a feel for her."
And then, finally, Kiran, I had a chance to speak with Bob Barnett. Now, he is somebody who actually advised Geraldine Ferraro in her debate, Hillary Clinton in her debate, as well as Joe Biden this time around. And he said that he was quite relieved the fact that there was no gender politics involved in this male/female debate. There was no moment where you saw any hint of sexism or chauvinism. He thought that was a very good sign that folks are moving ahead -- Kiran.
CHETRY: No. In fact, there wasn't a lot of personal attacks or jabs really on either side. Very interesting for how it was billed versus how it came off. Where do John McCain and Barack Obama go from here?
MALVEAUX: We know that Joe Biden actually goes back home after this. We know that Obama is in Pennsylvania, Virginia. Obviously, very important key swing states.
John McCain in Colorado, and Sarah Palin in Texas. All of these states very much in play. All of them back on the road to let you know that Sarah Palin as well goes out solo multiple rallies starting on Monday. Obviously, they feel that this is quite a boost for her. That she's gotten somewhat of a kick ahead and that's a good thing for the ticket -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Suzanne Malveaux for us this morning. Thanks.
ROBERTS: Rating the debates. Forget about the pundits and the politicians. What do voters think? We'll talk to some Sarah Palin supporters and ask if their candidate delivered last night.
CHETRY: And Sarah Palin and Joe Biden sparred over Iraq and Afghanistan at last night's debate. CNN's truth squad is checking the facts on some of the things the candidates said.
You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was two Mondays ago John McCain said at nine o'clock in the morning that the fundamentals of the economy were strong. Two weeks before that, he said, George, we've made great economic progress under George Bush's policies.
Nine o'clock, the economy was strong. Eleven o'clock that same day, two Mondays ago, John McCain said that we have an economic crisis.
That doesn't make John McCain a bad guy, but it does point out he's out of touch. Those folks on the sidelines knew that two months ago.
GWEN IFILL, MODERATOR: Governor Palin, you may respond.
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: John McCain in referring to the fundamental of our economy being strong, he was talking to and he was talking about the American workforce, and the American workforce is the greatest in this world with the ingenuity and the work ethic that is just entrenched in our workforce. That's a positive. That's encouragement, and that's what John McCain meant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: So talk about jobs yesterday at the vice presidential debate, our Christine Romans is "Minding Your Business" this morning with some job numbers for us as well.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We're going to get those later.
These two candidates, these two teams have a serious problem and that problem is what's happening right now in the economy. They have spent months on the campaign trail articulating these very long and detailed plans about taxes and energy and health care. But the fact of the matter is they've got firefighting to do, good old-fashioned firefighting. And no matter who is the president in the beginning of the year, they have the same job and that is to stabilize the financial system and to get this economy growing again and to try to blunt what could be a serious recession.
We're going to hear earlier this morning a new jobs report. It will likely be the ninth month of job losses. It is expected to be 105,000 more jobs loss. And you know, as we say here all the time, you have to have 125,000 jobs roughly created every month just to keep up with the working age population. So when you're shrinking 100,000 jobs or so every month, that is troublesome. That means a lot of people are out of work.
Over the past couple of weeks, we've already seen this happening. Almost a million people over just the past two weeks have lined up for the first time for unemployment benefits. We've seen car sales plunge. We're already seeing the weak spots in the economy start to permeate and that's what both of these candidates have to do.
I mean, they both have basically the same job when they get in the office. You can look at sort of the philosophical nature of their positions and platforms, but bottom line is, is either of them when they get there have the same job to do first.
CHETRY: All right. And you're right. It's not easy for whichever team takes over. A lot of challenges.
ROMANS: We'll watch these job numbers, and we'll bring them to you when they come up later. We'll tell you also in the next hour where the jobs are being created, where in the country and what kinds of fields jobs are being created, because that's really something important for people who are going to college, for people who are getting out of college, for people who are choosing where they want to be trained. So we're going to show you where some of the jobs are.
CHETRY: All right. Silver lining. We like to hear that.
Christine, thanks.
Reality check.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Barack Obama voted against funding troops thereafter promising that he would not do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Did Obama oppose funding troops? Alina Cho and the truth squad check the candidates' statements against the facts.
You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Do I support granting same-sex benefits? Absolutely, positively.
Look, in an Obama/Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple. The fact of the matter is that under the Constitution, we should be granted -- same-sex couples should be able to have visitation rights in the hospital, joint ownership of property, life insurance policies, et cetera. That's only fair. It's what the Constitution calls for.
GWEN IFILL, MODERATOR: Governor, would you support expanding that beyond Alaska to the rest of the nation?
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, not if it goes closer and closer towards redefining the traditional definition of marriage between one man and one woman. And unfortunately, that's sometimes where those steps lead.
No one would ever propose, not in a McCain/Palin administration to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed, negotiated between parties. But, I will tell Americans straight up that I don't support defining marriage as anything but between one man and one woman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: And 15 minutes after the hour. We're back with the "Most News in the Morning."
Sarah Palin and Joe Biden there squaring off on same-sex marriage. And joining us now to talk more about all of this, Ed Rollins, Republican strategist and CNN contributor, and Democratic analyst Julie Menin.
Good to see you both this morning.
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Good morning.
JULIE MENIN, NEW YORK DEMOCRAT: Good morning. ROBERTS: So David Gergen observed last night that Sarah Palin was on the verge of becoming an embarrassment for the Republican Party, and she saved herself from that. Would you agree?
ROLLINS: Absolutely. You know, she did everything she had to do. She reinforced her base. She obviously stood there for 90 minutes with one of the more senior members of the United States Senate and made no mistakes and once again, I think, put the cause forward.
ROBERTS: Julia, some people have observed that Palin wins by not losing.
MENIN: Yes. I mean, that's a troubling standard. I mean, that shouldn't just be that she had a gaffe-free debate and suddenly that that's winning a debate. I think that she was very weak on the substance. She evaded a lot of the answers. She kept coming back to the core issue of energy. It was almost a non-sequitur when she kept coming back to it and talking about the bailout, which has nothing to do with energy. And I think that her performance overall, it was too folksy. It was not substantive enough.
ROBERTS: You know what's interesting, though, is that people really seemed to like that folksy aspect of it. Let's play a little bit of how she tried to employ that last night and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One thing that Americans do at this time also, though, is let's commit ourselves, just every day American people, Joe six-pack, hockey moms across the nation, I think we need to band together and say never again. Never will we be exploited and taken advantage again by those who are managing our money and loaning us these dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Former Nixon speechwriter Peggy Noonan observed. She said, "She's a campaigner. Her syntax did not hold, but her magnetism did. At one point, she literally winked at the nation."
Ed, the base loves that. But is it enough, as Julie was saying? She's there to be vice president.
ROLLINS: Well, she's a big personality. I mean, I think the bottom line is we're now back to where it should be. It's about John McCain versus Barack Obama.
And the vice presidents are sort of subservient players. They have their speeches at the convention. They have this night, and I think the bottom line is we go forward. And the story from here on is the economy and John McCain.
ROBERTS: Right.
MENIN: Can we really make the vice presidents subservient? I mean, 30 percent of all vice presidents end up becoming president.
And the idea of the vice president being subservient, we certainly haven't seen that with Dick Cheney. We didn't see it with Al Gore. We didn't even see it with LBJ. And so, there's sort of a new role model for vice presidents and that's why I think there's so much scrutiny right now on Sarah Palin.
ROBERTS: You know, people were wondering if Biden was going to connect. Thirty-six years in the Senate, elder statesman, can you really have that sort of one-on-one connection with the audience? There was one moment last night where that really seemed to happen. Totally unscripted moment as far as we know. Let's watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The notion that somehow because I'm a man I don't know what it's like to raise two kids alone. I don't always like to have a child you're not sure is going to make it. I understand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: That was a Joe Biden moment I've never seen before.
ROLLINS: It's a Biden moment I've never seen either. It's a very touching moment and obviously he has a very important story that's helped mold him. And I think a lot of people felt very strongly towards that in a positive way.
MENIN: Yes, I agree. I thought it was one of the best moments of the debate. It really turned the whole gender issue on its head. You saw a man expressing emotion. I thought it was really terrific. It connected with the voters and it really showed him as an average Joe.
ROBERTS: How does this change the game? It doesn't?
ROLLINS: It doesn't. I mean, we're down -- unemployment figures come out today. Obviously, we're going to worry about whether the House passes the bailout, depending what side you're on. You know, next week we'll be back to McCain and Obama, which is what the ticket should be.
ROBERTS: And, how much pressure do you think there's going to be on Obama and McCain to try to change the game? I mean, we're getting down to the short strokes here.
MENIN: We are getting down to the short strokes. But I mean, when we see McCain pulling out of Michigan, these are signs that the McCain campaign is really in trouble. And I think it's in trouble precisely because of the economy. Because in terms of McCain making the economy such a fundamental part of his campaign, he didn't really show the leadership that he needed to on this issue.
ROBERTS: You know, there was -- the one part there, Ed, that we played coming into this on same-sex marriage, did she get outside of the Republican talking points?
ROLLINS: She got outside of what most Republicans believe, I think. But I think that's what she believes and I think, obviously, that's a -- it's a very important issue and she feels very strongly about it.
ROBERTS: And, Ed, how does she differ from John McCain? Can you run it down for us?
ROLLINS: Well, I think -- I think that she basically, both are against same-sex marriage as Biden and Obama but I think that she basically had more empathy for people who -- they have alternative lifestyles.
MENIN: You know, I found her exchange on that a little bit puzzling. I wasn't completely clear what was her personal opinion versus the campaign's opinion. I thought it was an interesting dialogue and I'm sure moving forward there may be some more questions in that area.
ROBERTS: Right. Were you a little surprised at the very beginning that it seemed to me watching this debate that Biden was a little uncertain right off at the top. And looking at the dial testing that we did, the instantaneous dial testing, she kind of rocketed right off the top. And Joe looked like -- Joe Biden looked like it took him a little while to find his place.
ROLLINS: I think to a certain extent she got off the first best shot where she walked across the stage saying, "Can I call you Joe?" That was a great move. I think she was more comfortable than he was initially. Obviously, he's got a tremendous amount of substance and he expressed the Democrat viewpoint very, very well. But I think she was a big personality. She did what she had to do.
MENIN: But it's interesting, she used her notes throughout the debate and Biden really did not. And when you are a leader, you don't have time to look at notes. So I found her use of constantly shuffling through her note cards and looking down for the answers very disconcerting and troubling overall.
ROBERTS: Now, you might be not -- might not be able to use notes as a leader but when you are a leader and you're actually sitting there in the office, you have a group of people around you and you reach out to them. I mean, they can be here.
ROLLINS: What people have dismissed and having worked for three presidents and having been in the White House for four and having worked with a lot of governors, governors make day-to-day decisions. They can't do all the speak (ph) that the senators can, but they're problem solvers and she has a natural (ph) credit for that.
MENIN: But I think at the 3:00 a.m. phone call, you don't have notes in front of you. And in big crisis, you don't have the opportunity to check notes. And you really need decisive leadership and I didn't really see that from Sarah Palin last night.
ROLLINS: There's a point in 3:00 in the morning Barack Obama does not have Joe Biden on his side either.
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: All right. Ed Rollins, Julie Menin, thanks very much. We'll get you back a little bit later on.
MENIN: Thank you.
ROBERTS: We'll talk more about this.
Twenty-one minutes after the hour now.
Changing sides.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JESSE JACKSON, JR. (D), ILLINOIS: We need to make sure that we are bailing out the country first and not country clubs first.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: We'll ask Representative Jesse Jackson Jr. what Barack Obama did to get him to now back the bailout plan.
You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's so obvious that I'm a Washington outsider and someone just not used to the way you guys operate. Because here you voted for the war and now you oppose the war. You're one who says, you know, as so many politicians do, I was for it before I was against it or vice-versa. Americans are craving that straight talk and just want to know, hey, if you voted for it, tell us why you voted for it and it was a war resolution.
And you had supported John McCain's military strategies pretty adamantly until this race and you had opposed very adamantly Barack Obama's military strategy, including cutting off funding for the troops that attempts all through the primary.
And I watched those debates, and so, you know, I remember what those were all about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Welcome back to the "Most News in the Morning." Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr., the Illinois Democrat and Barack Obama supporter, joins us now from Washington to weigh in on the debate last night.
Thanks for being with us this morning, Congressman.
REP. JESSE JACKSON, JR. (D), ILLINOIS: Good morning, Kiran.
CHETRY: What did you make of the debate in a nutshell? The highlights for you?
JACKSON: Well, I was impressed with Joe Biden's breadth, the depth and the magnitude within which he brought substantive and critical issues to the American people. It's also clear that he's going to make a very, very important partner for Barack Obama as his vice president. This is not a yes man. This is someone who is going to be in the Oval Office with the president of the United States making thoughtful decisions.
I was also impressed with Sarah Palin. I thought she held her own last night, and I shared with many people over the course of this campaign since she was selected that she is not to be underestimated. And last night, Joe Biden did not underestimate her and I thought that was a very, very civil discussion and thoughtful.
CHETRY: She also spent a lot of time talking about "Joe six- pack" as well as hockey moms, and she's been trying to reach out to the blue collar vote as well as John McCain, of course. It's a group that Obama has had a hard time actually winning over, it seems. Did she connect with these voters better than Joe Biden did last night?
JACKSON: Well, I'll wait to see what the polls ultimately have to say about how either of them connected to these voters. But suffice it to say, I believe Barack Obama has shown over the course of this campaign where he stayed, where he's gone, that this isn't a campaign for one side of the state or one side of a town, this is a campaign for all Americans. And Joe Biden and Barack Obama, at least from my perspective, are doing an extraordinary job of speaking to the issues that matter to blue collar workers -- shoring up our economy, strengthening social security, strengthening the issues that matter to them. And if in fact people vote their interests on Election Day, Barack Obama and Joe Biden are going to confound wise.
CHETRY: It looks like Sarah Palin did try to get in a little bit of a dig there when she said that you don't have to worry about John McCain saying one thing to you when you're here, and one thing when you're not around. She was, it seemed referring to what Barack Obama said at a fundraiser in San Francisco about sometimes people being bitter and clinging to guns and religion. Is that going to still be a difficulty in terms of making some of these blue collar working class voters believe that Barack Obama understands what their lives are like?
JACKSON: Well, you know, consistency does matter in the political process. We want leaders who mean what they say and say what they mean. But there's also a process here in Washington.
A classic example was last week the House of Representatives sought to work its will on bailing out financial institutions. From my perspective, I thought homeowners, those who'd been at the foundation of this crisis should also be bailed out. I wanted the House to include stronger provisions in the legislation that spoke to the issues of homeowners. Well, that bill failed. I hope that the House would present a different product. Now the Senate has passed a measure, the only measure that we will vote on before the congressional recess. And it is my hope today, as I shared with Senator Obama last night, and he impressed upon me the importance of one, supporting this measure, because this is the only measure that the House is going to consider. But as president of the United States he said, "Jesse, I'm going to make sure that there are no more foreclosures. I'm going to do everything I can to stop predatory lending."
Well, that's not in the bill but as president I trust Barack Obama, and because he is concerned about a deep recession that the non-passage of this bill could force our nation into, I'm inclined and likely to support it today.
CHETRY: So this is a change that you said you were planning to, as early as yesterday afternoon, you were planning to vote no. A little bit later in the afternoon, you were maybe moving to the other side. So it was this phone call from Barack Obama assuring you that the homeowners are not going to be left out in his administration that has you more inclined to vote yes today?
JACKSON: Kiran, at the foundation of this crisis is a woman by the name of Mildred Howell, age 64, who lost her husband. He was a former police officer who was robbed. He was beaten and he subsequently died. It left her with inadequate income, so she went to a bank to get a mortgage.
They gave her -- she sought a reverse mortgage. They steered her to the subprime market. And now at age 69, she is facing foreclosure. She's not going to start another job at 69 years old. She's facing homelessness. At the foundation of this crisis are real people who deserve to have the same kind of thanksgiving that you and I are going to enjoy.
She deserves to have the same kind of Christmas. And I can't think of a better Christmas that we can give Mrs. Mildred Howell than to make sure that she is in her home for Christmas and not facing foreclosure.
There are millions of people across our country just like that who deserve to hear from their government to stop foreclosures right now. A moratorium on foreclosures from my perspective is a necessary benefit. If Barack Obama as president, my very good friend as president has made the commitment, he's going to do everything he can to make sure that the Mildred Howell's of life --
CHETRY: And let me just ask you this because you illustrate the point well and it is a heartbreaking story. You're right. Did he promise you, Barack Obama, that there would be a moratorium on foreclosures if he is in the White House?
JACKSON: I told Barack Obama that I am fighting for a moratorium. Barack will ultimately make the decision as commander in chief and as the president of the United States on what is in the best interest of the nation. I trust Barack Obama's judgment. CHETRY: All right. Representative Jesse Jackson, Jr., always great to have you on the show. Thanks.
JACKSON: Thank you, Kiran.
ROBERTS: The House could vote later on today in a Senate sweetened financial bailout bill. The economic crisis hitting many Americans right where they live, and those close to retirement are feeling the most pain.
CNN's Mary Snow is following that part of the story for us.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John and Kiran, regardless of a bailout package, the financial crisis has taken a toll on Americans that could take years to repair. And among the hardest hit are people who have retirement within reach but are now forced to change their plans.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW (voice-over): Christine and Mike DiGiovanni (ph) are on the front lines of the financial crisis, and they say it's a scary place to be. Both are looking for work. Christine just turned 60 but says any hopes of retiring soon are gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were looking, you know, maybe 62 would be a good age. Now it's like retirement? What retirement? You know, it's just not going to happen.
SNOW: Christine says her 401(k) is now worth what it was 15 years ago when she started investing in it. She estimates she lost about $50,000 so far this year, until she recently took her money out of stocks and switched to bonds.
KRISTINE DIGIOVANNI, 60 YEARS OLD: Every quarter, I get a statement and, you know, it would be $2,000 or $3,000 less than it was the quarter before.
The couple's main investment is in real estate and includes their Madeira Beach, Florida home. But that's lost a third of its value and the DiGiovannis say they can't afford any more repair work.
Across the country in Nevada, the real estate downturn has also hurt 43-year-old Catharine Lindsay but not as much as the plunge in her 401(k) savings. She estimates her 401(k) lost 60 percent of its value this year.
CATHARINE LINDSAY, 43 YEARS OLD: I made a choice to invest in some risky stocks or things that might be considered risky now.
SNOW: Financial planner Constance Barber says her clients haven't seen such dramatic drops but she has them balance their investments in cash, bonds and stocks.
CONSTANCE BARBER, FINANCIAL PLANNER: If you're a 40-year-old and your account is down 20 percent, then you can afford to wait it out since it is a retirement account. If you're 65 or 70, you shouldn't be 100 percent in stocks.
SNOW: Barber's advising her older clients to work as long as possible and for Catharine Lindsay, that's something she's already banking on.
LINDSAY: If I'm going to continue this, I also have to accept the fact that I'm probably going to be working until I'm in my mid- 70s.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: One investment research group, Morning Star, says judging from the past, it could take most people at least three years or more to recover from downturns like this one -- John and Kiran.
ROBERTS: 31 minutes after the hour now and here are this morning's top stories. In just a few hours, the House faces a pivotal re-vote on the economic bailout bill. The new version, approved by the Senate, includes about $110 billion in addition such as tax breaks and bank account protections.
The number of out-of-work Americans hit a seven-year high -- 497,000 people are now claiming unemployment. That is the highest number since September of 2001, when unemployment soared after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. This time last year, unemployment was just 324,000.
Authorities in California say human remains were found at the site of Steve Fossett's plane crash and would be sent to the state's Justice Department for forensic analysis. Investigators also confirmed the aircraft did, in fact, belong to the millionaire adventurer.
CHETRY: Well, it's time now to check in with the "Truth Squad." Alina Cho has been fact-checking some of the things that we heard last night at the debate.
Hey, Alina.
ALINA CHO, CNN GENERAL ASSIGNMENT CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Kiran, good morning. You know the economy may be issue number one right now, but many pundits believe the exchanges between Biden and Palin over the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were some of the most compelling of the debate. They were certainly fascinating. Lots of back and forth over funding and strategy. Take a listen to what Sarah Palin said about Obama's support of troops.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. SARAH PALIN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that the other ticket opposed this surge, in fact, even opposed funding for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Barack Obama voted against funding troops there after promising that he would not do so.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CHO: Voted against funding troops after promising not to? Is Palin right when she said that? Well, Obama did, in fact, vote against a war spending plan. He was one of 14 senators to oppose an emergency funding bill in May of last year.
Now, Obama was pushing for an end to the war and that funding bill did not include a timetable. On the day of the vote, he actually released a statement quote, "We must fund our troops, but we owe them something more. We owe them a clear, prudent plan to relieve them of the burden of policing someone else's civil war."
Now the earlier bill that Obama supported did provide funding. It also established a timeline for bringing the troops home. That bill passed but was later vetoed by President Bush.
So the question again, was Governor Palin correct to say that Obama voted against funding troops? The "Truth Squad" is calling this one misleading. It is accurate to say that Obama voted against an emergency spending bill, but he also supported a previous funding plan that included a timeline for withdrawing troops.
And of course, as always, we are checking up on both sides, both Palin and Biden this morning after the debate.
Coming up, Kiran, we're going to take a look at a claim that Biden said that the success of the surge in Iraq cannot be replicated in Afghanistan -- another memorable moment. There were many in last night's debate. We're going to be "Truth Squading" it. We'll give you the answer coming up.
CHETRY: Sounds good. Alina, thanks.
CHO: You bet.
ROBERTS: Well, before last night's vice presidential debate, many people were wondering if Sarah Palin was up to the task. So, we sat down with a group of voters. Our Carol Costello did it in Poland, Ohio. She joins us now to talk more about all of this.
Good morning, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. If you're wondering where Joe Six Pack is, well, he's right here. I'm standing on Main Street in Poland, Ohio. And last night, I watched the debate with a group of Republicans at the Republican headquarters of Mahoning County. They were, of course, rooting for Sarah Palin.
They had t-shirts like this. They had buttons. They very much wanted her to show the country that she has what it takes. And when she said words like "gotcha," "you betcha," when she blew a kiss to the audience before the debate began, all of that resonated with voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROL SANKOVIC, MCCAIN SUPPORTER: She just never wavered. As far as her facial expression, she was always right there and ready with the comebacks, and which I loved. I just liked -- you know, she reminded me of that fighting -- what do I want to say, that fighting hockey mom.
KATHY GAHAGAN, MCCAIN SUPPORTER: She's (INAUDIBLE), she's real. She pulled from her heart but yet also has facts. She has been a governor. And she's done the things -- I absolutely believe she's ready to be president.
MIKE GAHAGAN, MCCAIN SUPPORTER: I think Sarah Palin showed -- she kind of gave the view from the outside of the beltway once again, and I think that's important.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: And you know, John, you've heard that "outside of the beltway" line. They say that she is qualified to be president, maybe she doesn't know all she needs to know right now, but she can surround herself with good people. They just want a representative in Washington from outside of the beltway who will tell their story. They are very distrustful of people who've been in there for a long time.
In fact, one woman described Joe Biden last night as "an old fart." We've heard it all before. And they described Sarah Palin as "a breath of fresh air."
ROBERTS: They don't mince words there in Poland, Ohio, do they?
COSTELLO: No, they don't. They don't.
ROBERTS: Hey, back to that point --
COSTELLO: Just straight talk out here.
ROBERTS: They certainly is straight talk, you know. No filters out there. But back to this point again where they think that, you know, she's got enough experience, that she can sort of learn on the job if she was thrust, God forbid, into the position of being in the presidency. I mean, how do they square that with the idea that most of these candidates work their entire lives towards this as a final goal. She was really thrust into the limelight with much different experience than your typical presidential candidates.
COSTELLO: They don't trust Washington. They think the longer people have been in Washington and the more experience they have, the less trust -- they distrust them. They want somebody who represents them, who speaks their language, who have their experience.
Look, every four years the presidential candidates come here to Mahoning County to try to convince Ohioans to vote for them. And then they never come back. That's what people feel out here. I mean, the economy still stinks out here and it has since the '70s. They want someone who can go to Washington and represent them.
ROBERTS: And what about this idea of, you know, so much was made over the last week and a half of her performance in these one-on-one interviews. Do people out there in Ohio even care about that?
COSTELLO: Well, remember, I'm speaking to Republicans. And no, they didn't. They very much distrust the media too. They think the media was setting Sarah Palin up and they were thrilled when she performed so well in the debate.
ROBERTS: All right. Carol Costello for us this morning. Carol, thanks so much for that. Always interesting to hear from the folks out there in Ohio.
CHETRY: Well, there were no fireworks and no real flare-ups. There were plenty of folksy expressions, though, in last night's V.P. debate. And Jeanne Moos goes looking for some of the debate's most unusual moments. You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: John McCain has voted 20 times against funding alternative energy sources and things, I guess, the only answer is drill, drill, drill. Drill we must. But it will take 10 years for one drop of oil to come out of any of the wells that we're going to begun to be drilled, in the mean time, we're all going to be in trouble.
PALIN: The chant is drill, baby, drill. And that's what we hear all across this country in our rallies, because people are so hungry for those domestic sources of energy to be tapped into.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: All right. Well, that's a little bit of the debate last night as we heard from the V.P. candidates. And joining us now from Washington, Patricia Murphy, the editor of citizenjanepolitics.com. And in New York, John Avlon, our registered independent and contributor to Politico.
Thanks to both of you for being with us this morning.
PATRICIA MURPHY, EDITOR, CITIZENJANEPOLITICS.COM: Good morning.
JOHN AVLON, REGISTERED INDEPENDENT: Thank you.
CHETRY: John, you highlighted that moment. Why did you think that was so effective?
AVLON: Well, Sarah Palin is trying to return to her strengths -- energy, which is what the McCain campaign has sort of tasked her with. But I think you saw real contrast throughout this debate. Biden winning on substance, but Sarah Palin winning on style, and really benefiting from the low expectations that were set. She was on message; she stayed on script and, therefore, had a debate that really exceed a lot of expectations.
CHETRY: One of the things she seemed to do, Patricia, a couple of times as Biden tried to link McCain-Palin to George W. Bush was saying that his references to Bush were backward looking. Will that argument worked with independent voters that regardless of how you feel about the current administration, let's look forward to see what we would fix.
MURPHY: Right. Well, you know, that's actually the first time that I've heard any of the Republicans say that. And I think it's probably the best argument they are going to have. They are suffering mightily because of George Bush and because so many voters associate this ticket, the McCain-Palin ticket with George Bush. But, again, Palin is not from Washington. I think she really tried to draw on her outside of the -- kind of outside beltway appeal literally saying I'm not from around here Joe Biden. You know, you're kind of talking fancy, and literally, there were certain points when she was talking about the oil companies and she said Exxon and Chevron, bless their heart.
You know, she was kind of going very much to those soccer parents and the hockey moms. She was talking directly to the American people and went as far as to say that specifically I'm talking directly to them. And I think that she was effective that way.
CHETRY: John, I want to ask you about this. Last night Sarah Palin underlined her background as a Washington outsider specifically with this exchange. Let's listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Let's commit ourselves, just every day American people, Joe Six Pack, hockey moms across the nation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: That's not exactly the clip I was hoping for. But since we have it, what exactly is Joe Six Pack, John?
AVLON: Well, I think it's sort of folksy focus group. You know, that was one of the phrases that she would came out to use and it gets picked up in a sound bite and it goes a long way to reinforce in what she authentically has, which is, you know, Main Street middle class perspective. And Joe Biden at times sounded very senatorial. But that can cut both ways. You know, Joe Biden used the word middle class nine times last night. So, you can already see very clearly the Obama-Biden campaign is focused like a laser beam on the economy. It's the middle class in terms of the Biden strategy.
CHETRY: Patricia, is there a danger in saying -- in using these slang terms, generalizing people, Joe Six Pack, the hockey mom?
MURPHY: Well, you know, I think for somebody who considers themselves a Joe Six Pack and I'm from the south. There are plenty of people down there who believe that that's who they are. And they believe that she's talking straight to them. The danger here is that she, in this debate, and really from every time we see her from now on, she needs to come across and needs to prove to the American people that she is capable of running this country. That is the bar she needs to clear. And kind of going back to her folksy roots is effective in connecting with people. It's not effective in convincing undecided voters that she is capable of running the nation. And I think that's where she needs to focus right now, but in terms of how she did in the debate she certainly did more than what's expected of her.
CHETRY: All right. I really didn't take you for a Joe Six Pack, Patricia, but thanks for sharing this morning. We're going to have you guys back throughout the show. I want to talk to you guys a little bit later about what she said about -- I've only been doing this for five weeks so no I don't have to go back on any of my promises. But we'll talk about that a little later as well.
Patricia Murphy, John Avlon, thanks.
MURPHY: Thanks so much.
ROBERTS: 44 minutes after the hour now. Reaction the debate straight from the voters right as it happened. The result of the dial test that you'll only see on CNN. You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: 15 minutes now until the top of the hour, until 7:00 here in New York. And we have Rob Marciano with us celebrating NASA's 50th birthday.
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, you know, it's a big deal. 50 years ago this week NASA was formed. So we're going to tie that into weather somehow, some way because we use some of their satellites. This is one of them. Actually, a research satellite. It's called Aqua. You know, Latin word for water. Well, it measures precipitation, evaporation and also sea surface temperatures. It flies at about 500 miles above the earth and it does a couple of orbits around the earth. Well, actually, it doesn't orbit about every 90 minutes.
That's different from what we typically look at, which these satellites that are up about 22,000 feet or miles, I should say. And these are NOAA satellites. And this is what we're looking at right now into the Caribbean. This could develop into something, in the month of October during hurricane season. This is an area that we watch closely for tropical development.
All right, what's going on today? A lot of cool air across much of the eastern half of the country. Some of the coldest air of the season. In spots 10 to 15 degrees below average. And across the mid- section, fairly warm and quiet. But the West Coast, man, they are getting hammered with an early season storm. A lot of wind, a lot of rain, a lot of mountain snow. So we are transitioning into that winter season. Happy birthday NASA.
CHETRY: Yes, it felt good actually out there.
MARCIANO: It does feel nice. ROBERTS: I hate it.
MARCIANO: Come on.
CHETRY: John, they're beautiful.
MARCIANO: I've never seen John happier. I think it's the political season.
ROBERTS: (INAUDIBLE). Thanks, Rob.
CHETRY: Thanks, Rob.
MARCIANO: See you guys.
ROBERTS: Picking on Palin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: I betcha (ph) darn right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: What happened to all the gaffes?
Jeanne Moos looks hard to find some unusual moments in the big debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: Dog on it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: You're watching the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: No knockout blows and no big blunders. Who knew the Palin-Biden debate would turn out to be such a gaffe-free affair. Well, certainly not our Jeanne Moos who was sweating the small stuff as a result.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PALIN: Thank you.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN NATIONAL NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What happens when shoot from the lip meets a gaffe a minute? It's only human nature want to watch as two trains collide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This debate is going to be a train wreck of astonishing magnitude.
MOOS: But what kind of train wreck starts out so friendly.
PALIN: Can I call you, Joe?
MOOS: And stays so polite.
PALIN: With all due respect, I do respect --
BIDEN: And I give her credit for.
MOOS: Even when attacked Joe Biden was all smiles.
PALIN: That's not patriotic.
MOOS: And all those gaffes we were expecting? Our gaffe-o-meter barely moved. OK, Sarah Palin accidentally called Joe Biden O'Biden at one point.
PALIN: Barack Obama and Senator O'Biden.
MOOS: And she referred to a well-known general, General David McKiernan, as...
PALIN: McClellan.
MOOS: She insisted on pronouncing nuclear...
PALIN: Our nuclear weaponry...
MOOS: But that kind of small stuff hardly registers on the gaffe-o-meter, but did register with viewers for her folksy expressions.
PALIN: And I betcha, darn right, it was the predator lenders. (INAUDIBLE) dog on it.
MOOS: Phrases like that, for a group of Democrats watching in Pittsburg, nuts. They scoffed when Governor Palin made a soccer mom reference. And while the Democrats hooted, Republican viewers in Virginia rooted, booing when Joe Biden said global warming was caused by man.
BIDEN: Only man made.
MOOS: And when Sarah Palin gave a shout-out...
PALIN: And here's a shout-out to all those third graders at Gladys Wood Elementary School, you get extra credit for watching this debate.
MOOS: The Democrats shouted back.
(LAUGHTER)
MOOS: But a debate that some tuned into expecting to see a car wreck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, it just clips. Oh, it's going into a pole. MOOS: Ended without anyone losing control.
BIDEN: It really was a pleasure getting to meet you.
KEITH OLBERMANN, MSNBC: Governor Palin did not crash, did not burn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were no major gaffes.
MOOS: Instead of gaffes...
PALIN: My dad who is in the audience.
MOOS: We in the media had to settle for unsettling winks.
PALIN: How long had I been at this like five weeks.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTS: Political showdown. The newcomer --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: And it's so obvious that I'm a Washington outsider.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: versus this seasoned politician.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I never supported John McCain's strategy on the war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Did the candidates help or hurt their running mates? And the highs and lows? Who scored with voters? The only network with real time reaction on the "Most News in the Morning."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROBERTS: 53-1/2 minutes after the hour. We're back with the "Most News in the Morning." And James Carville, CNN contributor and Democratic strategist joins us this morning from Atlanta to talk more about the debate.
Dissect it, deconstruct it, tell us where do we go from here. So, does this change the game at all, James, because heading in to the debate there were a lot of conservatives, some people on the Republican side who were starting to get a little squishy about Sarah Palin being on the ticket, wondering how it might damage John McCain in the next four weeks?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, let's be honest, Senator Biden won this debate. I mean, he won it according to our barometer, he won it by any...
ROBERTS: Well, if he hadn't won it, though, wouldn't that be a real problem for him?
CARVILLE: Well, again, Senator Obama and Biden went in ahead. They won the debate. And so it's all pretend talk to act like this thing was even close. If you look at any kind of research on this, if you're just a person looking at it, you say, gee, he won the debate.
But Governor Palin comes in and all she needs to do is get through it and we're supposed to act like this thing was close or something. It was not close. The conservatives liked her. That wasn't the problem. They're not going to win this race with their base.
And by the way, the Democratic base, of which I would remind people there is a Democratic base out there, there are Democrats in this country, I thought that Biden spoke to them eloquently and beautifully.
ROBERTS: You know, whether it was, I mean, really close or not in the overall, for Republicans, though, it certainly does go a long way to reassuring them, doesn't it? I mean, David Brooks in today's "New York Times" wrote that he thought that Republicans were watching this debate were watching it crouched behind the couch and by the end of the night, they were on top of the couch cheering her on.
CARVILLE: Yes, you know, I don't know because I'm not a Republican. But I do know that Biden won...
ROBERTS: But you know how they think, James, because you live with one.
CARVILLE: I know. John, they went into this debate behind. They lost the debate, OK? So, if you don't want to get beat up in the right-wing media you have to pretend like this debate is close. I don't care if I get beat up in the right-wing media. The debate really was not that close.
Now, does it appeal to the Southern Republican base? Maybe it does. But there was no -- I don't know how many times when we come back and we see it, but people see this. She didn't answer the questions that she was asked. She just rambled on about whatever she wanted to. She was asked about the economic recession and she started talking about going to soccer games or something like that.
And I mean to some people that's appealing, but that's not enough to come close to winning this election. They pulled out of Michigan and they lost the debate on the same day. And we're sitting around talking like this thing was a good day for them.
ROBERTS: However, you know, that debating style did win her the governorship of the State of Alaska. So, perhaps, it may go some distance here. Let met talk about this idea, everything was about change last night. Joe Biden was trying to make it about change. Sarah Palin was trying to make about it change. Let's listen to how they put that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: People aren't looking for more of the same. They are looking for change. And John McCain has been the consummate maverick in the Senate over all these years.
BIDEN: Can I respond to that? Look, the maverick, let's talk about the maverick John McCain. Again, I love him. He's been a maverick on some issues, but he has been no maverick on the things that matter to people's lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Obviously, James, a lot of people are going to consider the record, but when you look at the two of them on stage together, when you look at the visual aspect of it, who better represents change?
CARVILLE: Well, I think if you just look at it on that -- actually, we did it in our poll, as I recall it was about 50-50 against somebody who's been in Washington for 72 years and whose campaign is manifestly about change.
When people look at this country, I don't know how to say this but for the last 16 years the Republicans ran Congress for the last 14 years, and for the last seven and a half years, they've run the executive branch. And somehow or another we're really arguing about who's going to really bring change in this country -- the Democratic Party or the Republican Party? I mean, to the average voter, it doesn't make any sense...
ROBERTS: But as you know, James, a lot of people make the decision on who to vote for based on who they're comfortable with. And if they look at, if they look at Joe Biden, who has had a long and historic career in the U.S. Senate, some 36 years, and they look at Sarah Palin, 44 years old from outside, I mean, you can't get much further outside of Washington unless you're in Hawaii. You know, does she represent change to some of those people?
CARVILLE: They are not voting for her. They're falling back in every poll you've seen in the last week and according to our poll, they decisively lost this debate. So, I mean, it's something that people are seeing in the Democratic ticket that is making them vote for him.
And so, does she have a clever say or to hear, can she get a question and answer on other question? Yes, if that's a skill that you want me -- if that represents change is to not answer a question you are asked and answer some other question. And of course it does. But again, in my mind, the press is just saying that this debate was close so people don't have to get beat up in the right-wing media.
By no standard was this debate even close. Senator Biden, the Republicans needed a win. They got a defeat and a defeat, by the way, not even a close game. It was like two touchdowns and a field goal they lost.
ROBERTS: James, it's always a pleasure to have you on. Thanks for coming on this morning.
CARVILLE: Thank you.
ROBERTS: All right. Safe travel. And by the way, we're going to have Rudy Giuliani on the Republican side, coming up in our next hour here in AMERICAN MORNING -- Kiran.
