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Campbell Brown

Preview of Presidential Debate

Aired October 07, 2008 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAMPBELL BROWN, HOST: This is going to be interesting. It's a town hall style format which lends itself to - I think a more interesting perhaps more unpredictable type of debate. Little doubt the economy is going to dominate the conversation probably. This is supposed to be about domestic issues, 100 to 150 uncommitted voters in there asking questions along with moderator Tom Brokaw and internet questions as well.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Millions of people sent in those internet questions. The format of this debate is going to be fascinating. I want to go to Candy Crowley. She's on the scene for us in Nashville right now, together with Jessica Yellin and Ed Henry. But Candy, first to you, tell our viewers about this format. It's not the normal kind of town hall meeting that either Barack Obama or John McCain has used so successfully over these many months.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It isn't. First of all because they're together that's the biggest point. But second of all because these voters questions are already in the hands of Tom Brokaw. He will decide which ones and which people will be selected. Once that question is asked, the camera cannot go back to the questioner, cannot show the voter's reaction and cannot go back for a follow-up from the voter.

Now we have talked so much about the town hall meetings, trying to show that you have empathy with the person asking the question. These two men, these two candidates will be allowed to get out of their seats. But they have an area around them, that they're not allowed to go out of. And there is very little time after the candidate answers the question for there to be any back-and-forth, about 90 seconds. So there is very little time for them to talk together about anything. So it's a pretty structured format.

BLITZER: It's been carefully negotiated, Ed Henry, between these two campaigns. They worked for a long time to make sure they got it the way they wanted it. And we're going to see whether it works during those 90 minutes for the American public. I know the McCain campaign is trying to lower expectations. The Obama campaign is lowering expectations for themselves. We go through this process. All of the time. But it is different answering a person, a regular viewer's question, a person standing up in the audience than it is answering a question from a journalist shall we say.

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. And John McCain, this should be in his wheel house if you will. He excels at this. He enjoys the town hall meetings. Voter to him, directly with the microphone, pacing around these town hall meetings all around the country. This a little bit different though obviously. He won't be alone. Next to Barack Obama. He has the moderator. And as you say, these are undecided voters not rock hard Republican voters that he gets on the stump. The pressure is very intense on John McCain tonight.

Frankly he is running out of opportunities to change the dynamic of this campaign. Coming out of the Republican convention he had the momentum. Now he does not because of this financial crisis. Barack Obama has been gaining steam in a lot of these battleground states. This is one of the last chances for John McCain to shack up that dynamic, Wolf.

And Jessica Yellin, you are there on the scene. It's got to be frustrating I think for a lot of viewers, Tom Brokaw, the moderator, he can't really follow-up. If the candidates don't answer the questions or leave stuff hanging out there, under the ground rules he really can't press them, can he?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. And for the candidates, of course that's the ideal scenario, Wolf. Because they both come in with their own agenda. For Barack Obama tonight the goal is, is to hit on the economy in as personal terms as possible. Talk about what he plans to do, what he would do for middle-class voters, what he thinks John McCain wouldn't do. And to try to repeat that message as much as possible. And stay away from any of these character issues, or personal - more character logical attack that he is asserting that John McCain might make tonight.

For Barack Obama, I will tell you they're even calling Obama the underdog here. His own campaign is saying Obama is the underdog because this is McCain's ideal format as Ed said, in his wheelhouse. So the expectations game is being played at a whole new level. Barack Obama of course, ahead in many the polls. Hard to think of him as the underdog tonight. Wolf.

BLITZER: Yes. We're going to watch every minute. All right. Guys stand by. We're going to be coming back to you. Campbell, Anderson. There is no doubt that as we look at this format tonight, the challenges that a lot of people are going to be facing, as we watch this, we're going to be here, here with the best political team on television making sure we are keeping them honest throughout the night.

BROWN: It's a format, probably a good place to start when we talk to our panel now. Let me introduce everybody. We should say we have divided them up into, the nonpartisans, our brilliant analysts who are at this table. And then in the same way that you really need to separate cats and dogs. We got the partisans over here. Let me introduce - everyone. Suzanne Malveaux, all right, calm down, cats and dogs, who has covered the Obama campaign, and of course, CNN correspondent, with us John King, chief national correspondent. Dana Bash, who has been covering McCain is here as well, CNN correspondent, Jeff Toobin who is here, CNN senior analyst, David Gergen, of course, CNN senior political analysts and adviser to many presidents of all persuasions. And Gloria Borger, CNN senior political analyst.

Over at the partisan table. Paul Begala, who is a CNN contributor, democratic strategist; Alex Castellanos, who is a CNN contributor and GOP strategist; Bill Bennett here as well, CNN contributor, radio host, former Reagan Secretary of Education as well; Donna Brazile with us also, CNN contributor, democratic strategist, 2000 Gore campaign manager and you helped Gore prep in the debates as well. So welcome to everyone.

Let me start over here with our analysts. And let's talk about format. What Wolf was just mentioning, the town hall offers them this wonderful chance to connect with voters to show real emotion. David Gergen, what do they have to do to make this a successful debate, both of them?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: They have to provide to Americans a real sense that they would be good stewards of the economy. That they know how to get out of this mess and put us back on the road to prosperity. And something they ducked in their last debate and the vice presidential candidate ducked, is to tell us for the first time all these glittering promises they made in the campaign. What are they going to put on hold? What is going to be delayed now? People are looking for some straight answers.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: But if they ducked that two weeks ago why would they address it now? Because they haven't been addressing that on the campaign trail?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: We're in the middle of a crisis right now. This is not a theoretical debate about leadership anymore in a time of crisis. We are in crisis. So they have to start acting like leaders rather than just talking about what they would do. They have to come up with solutions and a plan that people believe can get us out of this crisis because people are looking at their life savings and seeing it go down the drain.

GERGEN: Gloria, the more evasive they are, the weaker they will seem as leaders.

BROWN: And we all agree the economy is going to essentially dominate the conversation tonight?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Well, maybe. Maybe. It is all up to Tom Brokaw. Tom Brokaw has enormous power h here. He has got thousands of questions. He can ask anything he wants. He is going to decide whether the economy dominates. Obviously, he is following the news like everyone else. It will open with a question about the economy. But I think Tom Brokaw who likes surprises who is a newsman, he doesn't want this to be a boring debate will definitely throw some questions in there that he hopes they're not expecting.

BROWN: Are we going to see, John King, a back and forth like we have in the last 48 hours, with the negativity with the focus being on Bill Ayers or on the Keating Five or the kind of stuff that they have been launching each other in the last news cycle? JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A, the candidates don't often do that when they're side by side to begin with. Number two, you're in a town hall audience. When you're taking questions from people who are doctors and lawyers, and the mailmen and the firemen. It's much more difficult to ignore the question and to launch into a partisan attack than it is to ignore us. It's easy to ignore us. Politicians are used to it, they do it every day. Both of these candidates understand what they need to do. I think you will have questions about leadership. Point of attacks about ideology and philosophy. I think most of the personal stuff will go away with the caveat. Tom Brokaw does have a lot of power. And sometimes voters get up and say, Anderson I saw your ad on TV last night and I didn't like this. And so it depends on what the voters ask.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPODNENT: BROWN: Right, and I was just speaking to McCain aides with him prepping him. They said don't expect that. Not unless they get a question about it. McCain is not planning on bringing up William Ayers. He's going to leave that to his running Sarah Palin to do that on the stump. However, the underlying contrast that they are trying to get at William Ayers and the underlying theme that they are trying to get that, he will try to do with more of the issues like the economy. What they say that they hope that McCain will be able to get out tonight is you know what, Barack Obama he may say that he is doing all, x, y and z for the economy for example, can you really trust him? Can you really trust this guy who is a newcomer on the scene? Can you really get it done? That's the theme they hope McCain will get through.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And so, the one thing I should add is I think Obama is going to fight back. They said they are not going to allow McCain to bully him. And one of the thing that he has to do is not only does he have to talk about the economy, his own plan but he also has to show his character and his personality. I spoke with folks who know him very well, who say, look they're very frustrated in some sense because he is a funny guy. They say he's a smart guy. And he's an empathetic guy. And people don't necessarily see that. So he has got to find a way to reach out to those audience members and to make the connection and show the kind of person who he really is. They say he is all about business now. And he is not, he doesn't feel like he can really afford to be anything else. But he has got to take the chance.

COOPER: Let's bring in the other table. Some of our more partisan folks. Bill Bennett, if John McCain -

WILLIAM BENNETT, RADIO HOST: 9:00 to 5:00, after hours over here now.

COOPER: If John McCain really feels so seriously about Bill Ayers and some of the other personal issues he's raised or his surrogates have raised why wouldn't he bring it up tonight?

BENNETT: Well, he can. But there is one major issue out there in the country right now, and that's the economy. John McCain cannot avoid the question. He can't change the topic. He has to embrace it. He has to sound more like Jack Kemp tonight. COOPER: Was it a mistake for his surrogates the other day to say basically, we want to pivot and talk about the other things other than the economy?

BENNETT: Yes, he has to, he can't go around this issue. He has to go through this issue. He has to embrace it. And he has to talk about it. By the way there is an opportunity here. Because the country is so discouraged about the situation, because it is so serious, John McCain can say look, I'm going to take this problem and here's what I'm going to do. And my plan, tax cuts, flat tax, everything else he talks about is going to change things. Barack Obama is going to have to put his plans on hold as he announced. So he has an opportunity here. But he has to look like he likes this issue and knows this issue.

COOPER: I want to hear from the rest of our panel. But first, we want to go back quickly to Wolf Blitzer. Wolf.

BLITZER: Anderson, thanks very much.

I want to alert our viewers if you have a laptop. It's a good idea to watch this debate. Watch it together with us. Go to cnnpolitics.com. You can join in a conversation over there. Plus get a lot of other useful information. If you are lucky enough to be able to watch us in high-definition. We're going to explain the added benefit that you are about to get. We're going to take a quick break.

As we go to break though I want to go away from Nashville. I want to go to the White House. Take a look at this picture. It's a live picture of the White House. It is not something you see very often. It's in pink. The White House has been lit in pink tonight. In honor of breast cancer awareness month. From 7:10 p.m. Eastern until 11:00 p.m. Eastern tonight, the White House in pink.

Our special coverage of this second presidential debate will continue right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: And welcome back to CNN Election Center. We're getting ready for this debate, the second presidential debate. Barack Obama and John McCain. They will be in this town hall format. Tom Brokaw of NBC News will be moderating. But the questions will come from those people you see gathered there. They have submitted questions, Tom Brokaw has decided whose questions will be asked. There will be additional questions that come in from viewers around the country via the internet. We'll watch all of this.

Al Gore, by the way, also from Tennessee, we're in Nashville, Tennessee, watching this debate. He has come to this debate. He is a native son of Tennessee, Al Gore down there as well. Campbell, as we get ready for this town hall format. I can't stress how important it is to realize that this debate's format is very different from the first presidential debate.

BROWN: And as you pointed out earlier, I think it was I read 31 pages of negotiating material, trying to come to agreement on the rules for this debate. And I'm told that the people in the audience are going to be asking questions are not allowed to follow up. In fact they are going to shut their mikes off after they ask a question. So I hope somebody will rebel and shout over the mike if they don't get an answer to their question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know how to do that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we do.

GERGEN: Cats and dogs, your audience, all cats and dogs out here.

BROWN: In the same way that the vice presidential debate was primarily about Sarah Palin, is this debate tonight, John King, primarily about John McCain?

KING: For the most part, because John McCain is back on his heels. When you look at national pools and state-by-state polls especially the seven states we list as toss-up states right now. All states, George W. Bush carried four years ago. So it is the Republicans on defense without a doubt. And the trend line in those polls is caused by one thing the economy. Barack Obama is seeing, by somewhere in the area of double digits as the candidate better suited to handle the economy. John McCain needs to change that fundamental. Forget the state-by-state polling, forget the national polling, who do voters trust more on the economy? If John McCain can turn trending that number back his direction, guess what, the state and national polls will follow it.

BROWN: So there is no way I guess you look at the map and you're the McCain campaign and you see where your opportunities may be, if it's Pennsylvania or wherever else and you try to talk to those people? Or is it essentially everybody wants to hear about the economy?

BORGER: Well, you are talking to everybody. If you are John McCain you are going to say he is too risky because he is too liberal. He wants to spend more money, he wants to raise your taxes, he wants big government. And you are out there, all of you are against that. And you really have to understand about Barack Obama, he's to the left of where the country is. That's the point that, John McCain is going to be, we're going to be hearing over and over again.

GERGEN: That would be terribly boring. We have been here. We have seen this. We have seen this show.

BORGER: They are not coming to entertain you. I don't think that is the goal of the evening.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Are we? I mean I don't think it works. I think that is McCain's problem is that you know he spent a lot of time talking about earmarks, a lot of time talking about Barack Obama is going to raise your taxes and it hasn't made an impact. He has not come up with an idea for the economy that has resonated with voters at all. That's what he needs tonight.

BORGER: I think it did before the crisis. He did before September 15.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: He was losing then too.

BORGER: But most people said it was a tighter race. Most people in the country -

TOOBIN: He was losing by less.

BORGER: They felt he was going to raise your taxes and that was a problem.

BASH: But I want to tell you one thing - Jeff has said about the fact that people don't think this is about earmarks. That is one of the things that I'm told that they have been working on debate prep over the last couple of days.

GERGEN: Earmarks?

BASH: No, about not talking about earmarks.

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: That's the mistake that he made and frankly Barack Obama made but much more from John McCain's point of view at the last debate. Didn't do as much of the I feel your pain stuff. So that is what they're trying to get him to veer away. Talk much more about -

COOPER: When you think how much the race has changed just in the last two weeks. I mean, just how much the electorate has changed in terms of caring about economic issues. Do you think both candidates have gotten that? I mean, clearly they're on the trail. They hear the anger. Have they been able to sort of recraft their messages appropriately?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I think now they internalized it. Hopefully now they have. A week ago they hadn't. The first debate they walked out there, to the minute, 24 hours after the biggest bank collapse in the history of the world. I mean, both acted like it hadn't happened. Maybe they're busy, they couldn't read the papers. But now they've had a week and I don't think they need a new three- point plan or a 12-point plan. I don't think there is one, to tell you the truth. But they do need that empathy that these guys are talking about.

A town hall meeting is different. John McCain is wonderful about showing strength. Barack Obama is wonderful about showing intellect. This is about empathy. And whoever is more empathetic is going to win this. And I think that they should break the rules. The stupid rules say they can't move more than two or three feet from their stools. Guess what, break the rules. If you are be tough enough to be the commander-in-chief, you got to be tough enough to stand up to this dopey commission. Walk over to one of these women or men and say now how long has your son been deployed or how long has your daughter been laid off from the factory, or what did the insurance company say when you applied for that policy? Engage them. Let them cut off their mics. Give them yours. Maybe these guys need to be liberated.

DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Paul is right.

BEGALA: From these stupid rules.

BRAZILE: Paul is right. The prize emotion in a town hall setting is empathy. People want to know that you -

COPPER: John McCain has done very well in these town halls that he has. And the critics say that Barack Obama has less experience doing that.

ALEX CASTELLANOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, guys, when my house is burning down, empathy is really nice. But I would like somebody to put out the fire. You know, I don't care about empathy.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: You want somebody who is steady, you want somebody who is calm.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: The conventional wisdom about needing empathy, that may be three weeks ago, four weeks ago but with the Dow down, like it was today.

CASTELLANOS: It's not what either one of these guys is. One is an intellect. The other one is a doer. John McCain needs to play to his strength tonight. Tell me what you will do. You can inspire me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About what?

BENNETT: That's the - do you understand the problem and do you have a plan?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And optimistic.

CASTELLANOS: What John McCain could have done this summer and could have done this spring is what he needs now. And it's still not too late to do it tonight and say look we're in a tough spot now. We're behind a little built. But in tough moments like this is when a nation and a president finds its best. This will bring out the best in us. There is a new global economic frontier out there. America can compete and win. Here is how I am going to do it. Cut taxes. Strengthen education. Energy. McCain has got a story to tell. He should tell it tonight.

COOPER: You know, David, you raised a point. I think it was last week at the vice-presidential debate that McCain needs to come up with something new on the economy, some sort of plan - is there something new out there, though? I mean, you think if he had it or Obama had it, they would have come up with it.

GERGEN: I think Bill Bennett was right about it. He does he need to show an understanding first and then come up with a plan. They could spare us tonight a whole list of people they have seen on the campaign trail who has got this problem or that problem. What they need to do is show us they understand how the world is working. We're in a new world, new landscape. Everybody is beginning to understand that on Wall Street. And the political candidates have to tell us how this new world is going to work.

And then to go to Bill Bennett's point. I think it's right. I think he has to have some sense of action. There is a sense now after two days that this rescue plan hasn't been sufficient. The Fed has come rushing in now, but the markets cratered again today. And there is huge fear this is spilling over. And right after the election as a senator you may have a chance actually to lead. I think they now need to show us. That they've got some Franklin Roosevelt in them. Show us that we are ready to go.

BROWN: Let me go to back to Bill for just a second on this. How does, if you are John McCain, how do you overcome the fact though that in a lot of people's minds fairly or unfairly he is a Republican. He is part of this Republican administration. He is part of the Republican Congress. In their view, again, fairly or unfairly that brought about this. And that's where their anger is directed right now.

BENNETT: Well you can do the obligatory and I think the facts require it, straightening out on that and point out that this was a democratic Congress, that there was supposed to be oversight, that Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and others were there, that there was resistance to regulations. Yes there was. And this is a debatable proposition. But when I say show empathy and have a plan. Maybe even, two minutes of explaining what this is. I don't think most of us still understand what this is. I talked 20 hours a week on the radio. I don't get it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Bill is right about that.

BENNETT: I think it would be great for somebody who wants to be the commander-in-chief saying let me tell you what happened. In simple terms, let the critics beat it up. Have people nodding in the audience. I finally get it. I don't think a lot of us still get it.

BORGER: But don't you think -

BENNETT: Am I cosmologizing deficiencies?

BORGER: But don't you think these guys have to inspire confidence?

BENNETT: Yes.

BORGER: You know, maybe through explanation. But inspire confidence that, yes, I'm the guy who can - who can help get your 401(k) back up where it should be. And I'm the guy who can work with the Congress to get that done.

KING: I think the problem for them and the problem for voters on the receiving end is that how do you do it? I don't think anybody knows how to do that at the moment. The interesting thing just from traveling, people are just shaking their heads. I was standing outside a factory yesterday, it was founded 55 years ago, 150 people got a letter in the mail on Saturday, telling them you have no job, your health insurance ends noon on Monday. They want to blame somebody. They want to blame somebody. They don't know if it is a bank who wouldn't lend the company money. They don't know if it's a hedge fund, who bought their company or just a bunch of greedy guys doing it. They see a bunch of politicians who are doing nothing to help them. That's the leadership question. I don't think anybody has a specific plan to fix this. Because I don't think they or anybody knows exactly what this is.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: You're like in a washing machine, spinning and spinning.

COOPER: If you are Barack Obama, what is your advice?

BRAZILE: First of all, I disagree with some of my panelist who believe that Barack Obama shouldn't emphasize that he understands what the pain is and how to fix what's ailing our economy. Yes, we are in a crisis. We have a major fire. We don't want just someone there to bring in the fire hose you want someone who can help you rebuild your house, rebuild your nest egg. So I think Senator Obama needs to lay out his plan, layout his vision. And reassure the American people that he has the plan to take this country in a fundamental new direction. And I think that it would be a huge mistake for John McCain to come out there tonight and attack. Because his negatives are up right now. Voters want reassurance they don't want attack dog style politics.

COOPER: If it becomes McCain yelling about Barney Frank to Obama, can't Obama just yell about Phil Gramm and others to him? Doesn't it become sort of an unattractive war of words?

CASTELLANOS: Yes, a productive strategy for Barack Obama. I think he doesn't have to win an argument. Just having an argument, leaving the status quo as it is and it's probably a good day for him.

BENNETT: He doesn't. He can talk back, if someone says well this is a Republican thing. This is George Bush here, he can speak back. He can talk about the community reinvestment act. He can talk about Barney Frank and say that. But it can't be the center of his response. The center of his response has to be what's wrong? And how do we fix it.

COOPER: We're going to have a lot more ahead. Also you can check out cnnpolitics.com for a lot more information on line. Right now let's go back to Wolf.

BLITZER: Anderson. Thanks very much. I don't think any of us can lose sight of the fact of how the markets have really collapsed since Friday when they passed that $700 billion bailout package. It's been almost, about 1,000 points it has gone down since then. Yesterday and today, that slide continuing. 500 points alone today. And that certainly is going to be hovering over this debate. We're watching the debate at Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee. You can see the folks already gathering. Fred Thompson, the former senator from Tennessee, the former Republican presidential candidate. He is inside. Earlier we saw Al Gore inside. We'll check back. Go to our reporters. Also check in with John King. He is going to be over at the magic wall showing us what is going on in our estimate of the electoral college lineup. Stay with us much more of our coverage right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: There you see the crowd. They gathered at Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee for this, the second presidential debate. The third debate overall. There was a vice presidential debate last week. We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm Wolf Blitzer together with the best political team on television, just about half an hour or so from now that debate will begin. I want to walk over to John King. He is over at the magic map showing us our estimate of what's going on in the all-important Electoral College -- 270, you need to be elected president of the United States. Tell our viewers the changes, what we're seeing right now, John.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, four weeks to Election Day as we wait for this second presidential debate. The map has shifted in a way that is dramatically favoring Barack Obama. As you noted, it takes 270 electoral votes to win the White House. We now have Obama leading in states with 264. They are the dark blue states are solid Obama. The light blue states are leaning Obama. The dark red, solid McCain. The lighter red, leaning McCain.

Look at the map right on. The gold states are the toss-up states. Seven of them left, all states won by George W. Bush, meaning the Republicans are defending so many states. But you can get Barack Obama to the presidency. At 264, I was just in Ohio this week. The economy is a huge issue. He's leading right now. We still call it a tossup, but Obama is slightly ahead. If that state goes blue and nothing else changes, Barack Obama is the president of the United States. A huge battleground state. No Republican has ever won without carrying Ohio.

That's just one way Barack Obama can get to the White House. Bring it back to the tossup by changing it like this. Let's bring it back yellow and you see this. But Barack Obama has so many menu options, it is easier for him. John McCain has to change some of these blue states to red. And Wolf, has to keep Florida Republican. He has to get Virginia and North Carolina. He has to do well out here in the West. Even if he did that, I just gave him five states and he's still behind Barack Obama.

So this is the fundamentals of the election, the economy is turning Independent voters, they are the most important part of the electorate as we get closer and closer to Election Day. They are trending toward Barack Obama. John McCain's biggest challenge tonight is to turn the tide.

BLITZER: What about the fact that Democrats outnumbered Republicans overwhelmingly over these past several months in registering new voters?

KING: Well that is one of the unknowns. That is a fact. We know that. More Democrats have registered to vote in most of the states. One of the unknowns is will they all vote? You assume if you're newly registered you will turn out, but that is one of the key dynamics across the country.

When you travel the country, Wolf, I'm going to switch maps here. You see this activity everywhere. I was in Indiana, that is a Republican state. I'll go back to the 2004 election map. You see all that red? It's a big George W. Bush state. Barack Obama volunteers registering voters there. I was in Ohio this morning watching not just new registrants, but early voting. The Obama people are trying to turn people out into so many states where you can vote early. Why? Because they have an advantage right now. They know McCain is on the attack and trying to get the initiative back in the race.

They want to get as many of their people, especially people, they know Wolf, were people hard to persuade. If they were hard to persuade, they want to get them out to vote early if you can in a place like Ohio where they might change their mind again.

That is the activity on the ground right now. And what makes it so different than past campaigns is the Democrats unlike any other race in our lifetime have more money to spend and more people on the ground including in ruby red Republican states like Ohio.

BLITZER: And there's a lot of enthusiasm out there as well. All right John, stand by. Remember four weeks to go from today. Our viewers should know if you are interested in doing what John just did, you can do it. Go to CNNPolitics.com. You can move those states around and come up with your own estimate who is going to win this presidential contest here in the United States, CNNPolitics.com.

We'll take another quick break. We will go to Nashville, Tennessee, Belmont University where the candidates, the two presidential candidates are getting ready. Shortly they will be walking into that town hall format. They will be answering questions from regular folks there and from e-mailers from around the country. Stay with us. Our coverage continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Welcome back to our special edition of ELECTION CENTER as we get ready for the debate to begin. You are seeing a live picture right now of John McCain's motorcade arriving at the debate hall down in Nashville, Tennessee. The debate scheduled to get under way just a little more than 20 minutes from now. You can see the crowd gathered in there. Town hall style debate tonight with Tom Brokaw moderating. And we are back now with the best political team in television to talk about it. And I want to have Gloria share with everyone a conversation we were having during the break and ask you the question which is -- how do they improve upon, how do both of the candidates improve upon their performance from last week?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think that John McCain in particular has to be able to hide his disdain for Barack Obama a little better than he did in their last debate, if you recall.

BROWN: He didn't look at him.

BORGER: Right, exactly. He didn't look at him. And I believe knowing McCain, knowing people who work for McCain and Dana can speak to this better than I can, that John McCain doesn't think Barack Obama is qualified to be president of the United States and he can barely hide that so he doesn't look at him. I think tonight he is going to have to be looking at him a little bit more. And just -- show a little bit more respect for Obama than he did last time. I don't know if he is going to do that.

BROWN: Let me ask you this, Dana, because I just got a note saying Cindy McCain, John McCain's wife who earlier paid a visit to a hospital said that, this is a quote she believes Senator Barack Obama has waged the dirtiest campaign in American history and that her husband will use tonight's debate to correct those distortions. That to me doesn't sound like we are going to see John McCain being like, "Hey, Senator Obama, how are you doing?"

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think we are going to see that no matter what, but that is actually - I just saw that also, a stunning thing to hear from Cindy McCain who went through the 2000 election and the Republican primary where there were some pretty nasty things said about her family from a fellow Republican, George W. Bush. So that's quite interesting.

But, I got to tell you in talking to McCain's advisors who have been with him, they say they understand some of the drawbacks of being John McCain on the stump actually being John McCain in this room with undecided voters with tens of millions of people watching. It's a completely different ball game. They get that.

With regard to what you were talking about, McCain not looking at Obama, what they say inside the McCain campaign is if you look at all of his debates, that's the way he operates, he looks at the moderator. However, they have been working with him. This is a different format. He'll be able to look at the voters and they'll be walking around. So it will be very, very hard for him tonight to not to look.

BORGER: So Obama shouldn't take it personally?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It's a very different situation with Obama though because he does not have personal animosity towards McCain. I've talked to several people who say that there was more tension between Obama and Hillary Clinton than there is towards McCain. BASH: Even now?

MALVEAUX: Even now. I mean, they say that he's peeved, you might see him get agitated but he is very aware he can't necessarily show his emotions on his sleeve. They say that, look he doesn't have the luxury as a candidate of color, to actually go there, to be, you know the stereotypical black man, angry black man or even to show any kind of humor.

They say he would be silly or not take those issues seriously. That he parses his words, he calculates his words. That he understands very well what he can and he cannot do in this format.

BROWN: Let me ask Donna Brazile how important the theatrics are because who can forget that first debate before Al Gore and George W. Bush when the sighs, when Al Gore was caught on camera doing one of these. And it killed him.

ANDERSON COOPEER, CNN ANCHOR: You had to remind her?

BROWN: I'm sorry.

DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC ANALYST: No, look, perception mattered. I also think the tone matters in a debate like this. And Senator Obama needs to be himself. He has enormous strengths, enormous gifts. He can elevate this debate. He can talk about these issues in ways the average American understands what's happening to them. You know, tens of thousands of people will lose their homes next month because we have a huge sub prime crisis. What are you going to tell them tonight, that John McCain is a low down dirty dog? No, you are going to say I have a plan to make sure that you keep your home this fall. I mean, I think that's what people want to hear. They don't want few to hear all this trash talk.

COOPER: There's an interesting poll. During the commercial break, you said this is not about fixing the economy tonight, it's about winning this election.

PAUL BEGALA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right, but that is how you win the election. But fundamentally, we can't expect the two guys to give us some silver bullet that will fix our economic crisis.

If they had it, they would have fired it already. And so what they need to do is at least persuade us that they're better than the other guy. It's the old joke, I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you, the bear will eat you.

Barack Obama wants to persuade people that John McCain is out of touch. John McCain wants to persuade people that Barack Obama is too risky. I would rather have Barack Obama's job tonight than John McCain's. That's a good start.

You know, you can't do everything in one debate. And this is a really, a challenging format for these guys, to pull that off. But I think if either one of them accomplishes that, if the citizens walk out and we interview them and people say yes, Barack seemed a little risky to me, then McCain wins. Vice versa, if they walk out and say McCain is a war hero, but gee, he seems kind of out of touch with my life. Then Barack wins, simple as that.

ALEX CASTELLANOS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: These are the kinds of moments that we use to test our candidates. This crisis is an audition for the presidency. And how these guys respond is going to tell us a lot about who they are. This is not that hard to do. Yes, there is no short term answer that is going to wave a magic wand and fix this tomorrow and voters aren't looking for that. But they do want to know inspire me, show me long term where we are going, tell me it is going to be tough, it's going to be hard. McCain has a better story there to tell than Obama because he is the only guy who can say I know what tough times are. I have a lifetime of experience. And these moments can bring out the best in people and Americans like me, like you, like all of us. We can do something about this.

COOPER: I know some Democrats want to get in on that, but we've got to actually take a short break. Let's go to Wolf for a second. We'll be right back though, we'll have more. Wolf?

BLITZER: All right, thanks, Anderson. We're only a little bit more than 15 minutes away from the start of this second presidential debate. You're going to be seeing throughout the 90 minutes of the town hall debate a couple of little squiggly lines going up and down at the bottom of your screen. Soledad O'Brien is out with a focus group in Columbus, Ohio, on the campus of Ohio State University. We're going to go to Soledad and her focus group of undecided voters. She's going to tell us what to expect. Much more of our coverage coming up from the CNN ELECTION CENTER, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. You are looking at these live pictures of the campus of Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee. Only about 15 minutes or so away from the start of this second presidential debate where the format is a town hall meeting.

Let's go out to Nashville. Candy Crowley is standing by. Candy, I flew the other day with Tom Brokaw and he was telling me that hundreds of thousands submitted questions that they have been going through. Not all the questions will come from the 100 or so folks that have been invited there to ask questions, but from e-mailers from around the country.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. One of the speakers actually just told us there were six million questions that were submitted. Now, you know, we would have to check that. But that's what one of the speakers said, one of the chairmen of the debate commission.

So, right now Wolf they're going through kind of the pregame show for this audience. There really are two different audiences. All around me in the sort of stadium, there are people who are the observers. Then if you take a close look at that stage, you will see that around them are, you see the two chairs where the candidates will sit. And then you see around them, the people who will ask the questions at least the ones that are not on the Internet.

And this is why we have been telling you it is going to be really difficult for these two candidates to go at each other in any sort of hostile form. Because they are right next to what we are told by Gallup, are undecided voters, swing voters, the people that don't like that kind of really intense negativity. So it is very close quarters up there for both Barack Obama and John McCain.

What they have been telling this audience is what they always tell debate audiences. You are going to have two chances to cheer. One is when the candidates come in. And one is when the candidates wrap up. So right now, they are getting their instructions and they are waiting for Tom Brokaw to come out and have a town hall meeting that has been very, very ordered. And there are a lot of restrictions, but nonetheless this will be our only chance to see voters ask these two men questions in such close quarters, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, it will be fascinating no matter what the ground rules are. Thanks very much, Candy.

Campbell, as we await the start of this debate, you know, it's going to be as quiet as a library in there. I like it when sort of people can get involved and applaud if you will. But that's not going to happen tonight.

BROWN: I don't know. We didn't get to set the ground rules for this one. Let me just pick up where we left off, the conversation a moment ago and ask Donna Brazile, can this - can anything happen that would make this a game changer? How often are debates real game changers?

BRAZILE: Paul is absolutely right. If Senator Obama buys into the stereotype he is aloof and cool and not connect with voters, that could slow momentum. And of course if Senator McCain comes in swinging, erratic, unsteady, that could buy into the picture that is now being drawn that perhaps he is unsteady at a time of crisis.

I think what is important tonight is that the candidates need to elevate the debate. Get voters to really tune into their plans about the future. They're scared, they're worried about their 401(k)s if they have one right now. They are worried about their job security, health care. And unless they get back to the issues, voters will tune them out tonight.

BROWN: And Bill Bennett, we were talking about theatrics of the debate, how important they are?

BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well as a former classroom teacher, you have one great advantage, you have the attention of the students. I mean everybody is interested in what is going on in the country, whether people understand it or not.

So it's what we call a teachable moment. If someone can teach us something, if we can learn something, there is that. John McCain I think needs to go back to the drama, the theatrics of Saddleback, that seminar they had. He was great then. He was dramatic, he was sharp, funny, engaged and he maybe can change it.

But these are theatrical events and things can happen. The first one was kind of dull, wasn't it? It was kind of dull. The vice presidential debate was more interesting. I mean the Gore-Bush thing which I dreaded turned out to be great for my guy because Gore acted kind of goofy and pompous and he was huffing and puffing. And then, who would know --

BRAZILE: Tell us how you really feel.

BENNETT: The head of the Yale Political Union, John Kerry, beats George Bush on points in three debates, wins every debate on points. People understand everything he says, but don't like him. People don't understand a thing George Bush is saying, but they like him. They come away liking him. So odd things can happen and the drama.

And you have this intense, this is the unusual one for me. You have this intense focus now because of this issue. And I really think this is an opportunity, McCain, McCain has to grab it. Obama does not have to grab it. He is ahead, he is ahead pretty comfortably. McCain does.

COOPER: How much do you think personality still matters to the degree that it did perhaps in the past? Do you think the economic issues has changed that somewhat?

BEGALA: No, I think that people understand that these problems are incredibly complex. And ultimately it always comes down to character in a presidential election. That's sort of -- personality is a reflection of that.

I think, taking on Bill's point. I think the reason voters didn't come away with anything from John Kerry was he didn't have a core message. He didn't have a theory of the case in Toobin's world of the law. And President Bush did. Guys like me didn't like him. Yes, we mocked him and made fun of him. He had a theory and that was I am strong and he is weak. He is weak, waffling and weird. He looks French. You may not like where I stand, but you will know where I stand.

Well, this time around, it's the Democrat has a theory in this case which is I am change and I can unify the country. And Senator McCain, every other day, he seems to move from pillar to post with a different message. One day he is risky, now he is a terrorist for goodness sake. I don't think that he has the compelling narrative that people can take away this time.

BENNETT: The irony is rich because the unity of the life. You know, the life really has a unified theme to it. But the campaign has not.

BROWN: All right, I know everybody at this table is dying to jump in too. But let's throw it to Wolf for a quick second.

BLITZER: All right, I want to go out to Columbus, Ohio, the campus of Ohio State University. Soledad O'Brien is out there with a focus group. Soledad, tell our viewers who is with you and tell us about those little squiggly lines we're going to see at the bottom of the screen.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have 25 folks with us, six are registered Independents, 10 are registered Republicans, nine are registered Democrats. And the way it works with all these panels is folks say that they are persuadable. Meaning they have not quite made up their minds with 28 days to go before the election.

And so they're really interested in hearing what is happening, what the candidates are going to say. Now they are all armed with this, a dial tester or a perception analyzer. Very simple to use. We have demonstrated a couple of times. You turn to the left. That means you are really not enjoying what the candidate is saying, it's not resonating with you. You should give low scores. It goes all the way up to 100. That means that is something the candidate is saying is connecting and resonating with you. You can go back and forth.

And second by second, Wolf, they will be monitoring this with the computers. Our professors from SMU are crunching all the data and they'll be able to tell us which phrases, which words, literally, what issues are impacting the folks who are in this room, what matters to them. Does negative play? Does positive play? What is working?

Now a couple things to note, 60 percent of the people who are electronically polled before we began, just about 15, 20 minutes ago say the economy is the No. 1 issue for them. Far ahead of what was number two, number three, number four. Sixty-eight percent say they believe the country is headed in the wrong direction. Want to introduce you quickly Wolf to a couple people.

Mike Winbush (ph) is a registered Democrat. Cheryl Jerls (ph) is a registered Republican. And J.R. Barry (ph) is a registered Independent. Mike, I'm going to ask you to start, our Democrat. And tell me what you need to hear tonight. I know all three of you were frustrated in the lack of specifics from the first presidential debate. Mike?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Health care is my biggest issue. And the affordability seems to be a gray area for me. What's affordable to some is not necessarily affordable to everybody.

O'BRIEN: You want to hear specific numbers breakdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, exactly.

BROWN: How about you, Cheryl (ph)? What's important to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The economy and jobs. There is a lack of jobs out there, employment, which, you know, in turn.

O'BRIEN: So clearly anybody who is watching TV knows the economy is bad. What do you need to hear from both candidates?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bringing more jobs to the United States. Bringing some of our manufacturers back into the United States or even foreign manufacturers.

O'BRIEN: What their specific strategies will be. How about you J.R., what do you want to hear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well not only on top of that jobs, like she was saying, I also would look to hear them talk about alternative resource for fuel, for energy, to help kind of bring America out of the slump they're in right now with the way gas prices are going nowadays.

O'BRIEN: So that's the word from a registered Democrat, a registered Republican and a registered Independent. Across the board when we talked about the need for specifics, everyone nodded their head and said yes, I want to hear real plans. It will be interesting to see exactly how the candidates connect or don't connect tonight. Wolf?

BLITZER: And we'll see if the -- the focus group, folks out there, are influenced by what they're going to hear and see over the course of 90 minutes. We will get back to Soledad. Take a look at this - we're going to explain what you're going to be seeing. On the bottom of the screen, you're going to be seeing these squiggly little lines. Men and women, how they are reacting second by second to what they are hearing and seeing up at the town hall meeting at Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee.

For those of you who have high definition TV, on these side panels, you will see a running scorecard by our analysts, whether David Gergen, John King, Jeff Toobin, Paul Begala, Gloria Borger, Alex Castellanos. You will see who is scoring points, who is missing opportunities on McCain's side and Obama's side for those who have high definition TV.

I assume by now almost all of you have a laptop, and it's a good idea to go to CNNPolitics.com because you can weigh in as well. Let's go to Alex Wellen, our deputy political director. Alex, tell our viewers what they can do to take full advantage of the Web at CNNPolitics.com.

ALEX WELLEN, CNN DEPUTY POLITICAL DIRECTOR: This is a very cool thing tonight. The forum, this is where you can weigh in, debate the debate. I just want to show you how you can get started. So, one of the people in there will be Roland Martin. Roland Martin has crated his badge. Let's annotate this. There is his name, he's a political analyst. He's a political junkie. And we see that his top three issues, and you will have your own three issues, social issues, the economy and Iraq. Where does he stand on Iraq? He is way left. But when it comes to social issues, he leans to the right. So that's what you need to do now. Go online. Create your badge at CNN.com/forum.

BLITZER: Alex, great idea. Campbell, this is going to be an exciting night for a lot of political news junkies and others as well.

BROWN: And we are minutes away now, Wolf. Quick final thoughts before we run out of time here, David Gergen?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good to hear - I hope those candidates are listening to voters. They want to hear specifics. They do not want to hear generalized empathy. They want to hear how do we get out of this thing? John McCain, from the public perception is John McCain lost the first debate. Sarah Palin lost the second debate. They have got to win tonight and he has a built in problem because there are more Democrats registered and watching than there are Republicans. And it gives a built-in advantage to Obama on the scoring after the debate is over.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Based on history, the debates tend not to move many votes. We get all excited about them. And in this campaign they haven't moved many votes. What has moved votes is the selection of Sarah Palin helped John McCain briefly. And the economy helped Barack Obama. The debates didn't matter.

BORGER: Unless you make a mistake. If you make a mistake, the first debate helped Barack Obama. And if I were advising these candidates which I am not, I would say to them say "I have a plan," over and over and over again. "This is my plan."

BROWN: Go ahead.

BASH: Temperamentally, everyone is talking John McCain as the underdog. He is just fine with that. This is where he actually excels, as the underdog. And not just that, you know, the Democrats are trying to raise expectations for the town hall format for John McCain. It happens to be true. He has done hundreds of these. It's how he scratched and clawed his way back to New Hampshire. So expectations should be high for him.

BROWN: John?

KING: Here is a number from our poll that reflects and I always say this - I'm becoming redundant, but I'm a product of my travels. Eighty percent of the American people think things are going badly in the country today.

BROWN: Which is a record low, we should add.

KING: It is a record low. You go out and talk to people in Indiana, in Ohio, they don't trust their banks, they don't trust their insurance company, they don't trust the politicians, they don't trust Wall Street. The guy who can convince them you can trust me might be able to move this race.

MALVEAUX: The goal for Obama tonight is just focus on the economy. Defend himself if necessary, his character, try to balance it in some sort of way and to be himself, to show that he can empathize with the audience.

BROWN: David, quick?

GERGEN: I just agree with all of that and I think that the pressure is really on John McCain tonight.

BROWN: Absolutely. Yes, I think everyone has been on the same page about that. That he is the one with the most at stake given what the polls show right now.

COOPER: Yes, it's going to be interesting. Alex?

CASTELLANOS: There are times in a campaign where you can help yourself. If you are behind, you can help yourself by attacking your opponent. But there are other times when you are behind, you can help yourself by clinching, grabbing your opponent, pulling yourself up, agreeing with him.

Look at Barack Obama on foreign policy last week. I agree with John McCain. And then he went on to draw differences. McCain should do it tonight.

COOPER: OK.

BLITZER: All right, we're only 90 seconds away from the start of this the second presidential debate. John McCain and Barack Obama, they are there, it's a town hall format at Belmont University. Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee.