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Nancy Grace
Search Set to Resume for Missing Florida 3-Year-Old
Aired October 07, 2008 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 16 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Mom Casey, the prime suspect of baby Caylee`s disappearance, has been a no-show at multiple court hearings. But now she`s set to appear personally before a judge to make her case, the tot mom petitioning the court to travel in secret, searching for Caylee.
And it is now revealed she claims she` always been afraid to search for her own daughter. Afraid. In fact, until now, mom, Casey, refusing to cooperate with police, her own attorney even stating she will not tell police what she knows because it`s, quote, "not in her best interests." What`s her real motivation?
Tonight, the defense demanding access to mom, Casey`s, car, including DNA, hair, chloroform, all discovered in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. They also want computers, cell phone records, polygraphs. Tonight, are police tracking mom, Casey, by surveillance, by GPS monitoring? Has she been supplied a secret cell phone? Texas Equusearch heads to Orlando to resume the search for Caylee. Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony met with her home confinement manager to map out where she could go this week and when. Any violation of that schedule could send her back to jail. But now Casey is asking for more freedom. In court papers, she is asking permission to travel to unnamed places of interest to aid in the search for Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, why did you wait four months to say that you wanted to look for Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As early as this weekend, the head of Texas Equusearch tells us, he would like to resume his group`s recovery efforts in and around Orlando. And Tim Miller says he would love to have Casey`s help.
TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: If she said she was willing to go out and -- and take us to areas of interest, I`d be on the next plane out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to look in areas where the police didn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Baez would not comment. However, his spokesman tells us that Casey is not interested in helping Texas Equusearch because that would be equivalent to admitting that her daughter is dead. The only searches she wants to participate in, according to the spokesman, are live sightings of Caylee, the efforts to bring the child home alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back. And you know what? That`s all I care about right now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, the mystery surrounding 23-year-old mom Stacy Peterson vanishing, upscale Chicago suburbs, husband/cop Drew Peterson the prime suspect in his fourth wife`s disappearance. The suspicious drowning of wife number three in a bone-dry bathtub officially ruled homicide.
Bombshell. The former cop finally agrees to polygraph himself about his wife Stacy and flunks, Peterson the focus of a tell-all book where he describes the day his wife goes missing. Tonight, primetime exclusive. The author who grilled Peterson for hours and caught it all on tape is with us live with the tapes. Is there any movement in the case? What happened to Stacy Peterson?
DEREK ARMSTRONG, AUTHOR, "DREW PETERSON EXPOSED": And you mentioned another alternative theory something could have happened to her?
DREW PETERSON: Something -- my investigators were throwing that out. You know, she comes up dead or something, and it`s just, like, they`re going to be looking at you.
ARMSTRONG: Because it could be a number of things.
PETERSON: Depending on where it is. I mean, if she shows up in Alaska or something, you know, then I physically couldn`t be there and do that, you know? It depends, so -- and that`s got me a little concerned. But I really believe she took off with somebody, so it`s just like I`m not -- and everybody`s always saying, You should be out helping search.
ARMSTRONG: Yes, I heard that.
PETERSON: Why am I going out searching for somebody I don`t believe is there? You know, it`s wasting my time. It`s, like, crazy.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you last saw her a month ago?
CASEY ANTHONY: Thirty-one days. It`s been 31 days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you calling now? Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, which is stupid.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, my first concern would be that we had her out on a bond for I believe it was nine days, and she never once -- never once did she say, Drive me here, or, Call here, or, Go there. None of that at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her attorney hopes to convince circuit judge Stan Strickland (ph) on Friday to allow Casey to travel secretly to places of interest in this case to, quote, "assist with the search" of missing child, Caylee Anthony. One of the reasons Casey is on house arrest for child neglect is because she did nothing to find her daughter, and apparently still hasn`t.
Anthony`s attorney also wants access to the evidence from the car Casey was driving when Caylee disappeared. He`ll trying to pool (ph) that evidence into the child neglect case so his expert can get to it. Attorney Jose Baez says he`s entitled to all the information because Casey has suffered the public`s hatred and that law enforcement or the state attorney`s office has successfully tried a homicide case against the defendant in the public eye.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And if anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! Do you understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!
CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my god. Calling you guys, a waste. Huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newsradio 10050. Mark, she says all this time, she`s been afraid to search for her daughter, and now she`s making a personal appearance before the judge. Why now, when she has been a no-show so many other times?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSRADIO 1150: Well, you know, I was going to say your guess is as good as mine. But here`s the deal, when it comes right down to it, Nancy. I think she wants a real "get out of jail" card free due to the fact that she says that she needs the privacy to go and search for Caylee, where she thinks that she may be.
She hasn`t told police or investigators where the child is. She has clammed up all this time. And you know, a lot of people are just kind of shaking their heads over this one, especially when the privacy issue is concerned, because you know and I know that the media will find out where she is searching. I mean, we have five helicopters in town belonging to TV stations, and they will zero in on her real -- real quick, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, I don`t understand -- to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI -- is why should the search for Caylee be a secret? Why does it have to be a secret?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That`s a great question.
GRACE: It doesn`t even make any sense!
BROOKS: No sense whatsoever! First of all, when she was in jail and she said, Look, if you let me out, I will help you find Caylee -- so Leonard Padilla, he thought he was doing the right thing by coming and bonding her out the first time, and then he found out into a week -- you know, he said, We`ll find her in a week. He then found out that she was lying. If she`s moving her mouth, she`s telling a lie. This is ridiculous. No judge in his right mind is going to even grant this, Nancy.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us out of Atlanta, felony defense attorney Ray Giudice. Also with us, high-profile lawyer Mickey Sherman, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" Out to Ray Giudice. She says she has been afraid to search for her daughter? Afraid of what?
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, let me just say I think the judge is going to deny that motion very quickly. He`s not going to allow her to tramp around...
GRACE: Not what I asked.
GIUDICE: I think that she`s -- I think it`s a ruse. I think it`s a strategy that there`s some Mafia or some violent people that have the child and she`s afraid to interrupt. That`s come out in many of her tape- recorded statements. But again, that motion is going to be denied.
GRACE: Come on, Mickey Sherman. She`s sitting around the dinner table at her boyfriend`s apartment, making pasta dinner, she`s afraid of the Mafia?
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, she`s so strange. But you know, the problem is that if she didn`t make at least a seemingly appearance of looking for her child, we`d be criticizing her for that. So she`s dammed either way. You know...
GRACE: No, I disagree, Mickey. If she had been at the get-go out there -- I mean, think about it. Think about it!
SHERMAN: In an ideal world, of course.
GRACE: If your children go missing, you`d be out there screaming in the streets, lying across the front steps of the police station, begging for help.
SHERMAN: For 24/7, no question.
GRACE: If she had done that, no one would be throwing a stone at this point.
SHERMAN: Well, I guess she`s trying to make the point that it`s never too late to start doing the right thing.
GRACE: Here`s where she`s looked so far, her boyfriend`s apartment, we know, at the kitchen table, Fusian lounge, under every barstool possible, and a good search around the stripper pole, Amscot checking, where her car ran out of gas, and Blanchard Park, where she claims she lost her cell phone. Oh, yes. There was the big search at Buffalo Wild Wings, Mickey Sherman. Of course people are throwing stones.
SHERMAN: Well, the other problem is, as Mike points out, there`s nothing she`s going to do that`s going to be secret. This woman has an aura of publicity around her 24/7 while she`s out of jail.
GRACE: Ray, what about Sherman`s theory that dammed if she does, dammed if she doesn`t? I disagree with that because if she had been searching at the beginning and putting out fliers, the way most people would if their child went missing, she wouldn`t be in the predicament she`s in now. And why should the search be in secret, Giudice?
GIUDICE: Well, it`s not going to be, but I think, in Mickey`s defense -- look, she`s going to try to do something. Baez is going to throw it up so at trial, he can say, We tried, we offered to look and we were turned down, and you didn`t follow up on all these leads. We could have helped. But I do think it`s a dollar late. It`s -- whatever the phrase is, it`s too late.
GRACE: It`s a day late and a dollar short.
GIUDICE: A dollar short. Thanks.
GRACE: OK, good try. Back to Mark Williams with WNDB. What about her appearance on Friday in court?
WILLIAMS: Well, that appearance takes place at 10:30 AM in an Orange County courtroom. She`ll be accompanied by Jose Baez, her attorney, who, of course, is going to say -- say to the judge, you know, Let Casey expand her horizons a little bit. Let`s get her out of home confinement. Let`s let her search for the child.
But again, I agree with your other guest, a day late, a dollar short, because, as you know, Nancy, some of the investigators have said Casey`s no longer with us -- or Caylee`s no longer with us.
GRACE: To Tim Miller, the head of Texas Equusearch -- Texas Equusearch now resuming in the search. They are headed back to Orlando to search for Caylee. As you know, Tim Miller not just a veteran searcher but also a crime victim himself. Mr. Miller, why are you heading back?
MILLER: Nancy, why not? I mean, we`ve still got a missing girl. You know what? It`s never too late to continue a search. I truly believe that Caylee is out there. I would love to believe that she`s still alive. But Nancy, I truly from my heart don`t believe that. And I believe that she`s findable and the only way she`s going to be findable is let`s go search some more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here because you brought us here, right? Now, I want you to tell me how that`s helping us find your daughter.
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But everything we`re doing is to find your daughter. That`s the most important thing in the world to you right now, right?
CASEY ANTHONY: Caylee`s been up here. Maybe we could talk to security to see if she`s come through the front. I know she`s come to the park. She`s gone to Disney. She`s been at Seaworld.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, whoa!
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s been to other place...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s go back to -- let`s -- let`s...
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re here...
CASEY ANTHONY: ... a backwards way of looking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It`s -- you know -- why do you think it`s backwards? It`s backwards because you haven`t been truthful with us.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Texas Equusearch announcing that it is headed back to Orlando to resume the search for 3-year-old missing Caylee. Here`s a shot of her. The tip line, everyone, I want you to be familiar with. We`re going to put that up on the screen. Also, there is a Web site about looking for little Caylee, Cfcrimeline.com. There is a $225,000 reward to find little Caylee.
To Tim Miller, the head of Texas Equusearch. Where do you intend on searching, Tim?
MILLER: Well, Nancy, we never really even came close to completing the areas that we searched before because of the conditions. And conditions today are not the same as when Caylee disappeared. You know, they had a tropical storm came in. It dropped a lot of water.
And it was my choice to go ahead and suspend the search at that time. And the reason being I truly believe that Caylee is not alive anymore. I don`t believe she`s far away. And I was not going to take a risk on our four-wheelers and our horses, our ground searchers walking through water that was a foot or two high and stepping on a possible little skeleton -- and we all know that she`s extremely decomposed right now and skeletal remains -- and pushing it farther down in the mud, so -- and then have a chance of never finding her.
So I`m flying back to Florida this week. I`m going to look the area over and make that determination.if...
GRACE: Are you working with police?
MILLER: I have talked to John Allen today, I talked to him twice yesterday. And we are certainly working together on this, and we`re not going to quit until Caylee is found.
And you know what? I held onto that little glimmer of hope that she was still alive out there. But Nancy, I am -- I`ve lost all that hope. And you know what? We need to find her. And you know, there`s -- it`s never too late. I mean, we did a search on Sunday in Oklahoma on a lady that`s missing five years, and I personally located her body in 35 minutes.
So I`m going to make some decisions out there, and we`re going to bring in the best resources again, and the conditions are going to be right...
GRACE: Tim, who pays your people?
MILLER: Nobody does, Nancy.
GRACE: You`re all volunteers?
MILLER: We`re all volunteers. I`ve got $35,000-plus invested in -- in Caylee`s search. But what price tag do you put on a missing person?
GRACE: Everyone, I want to remind you Tim Miller not just the head of Texas Equusearch but a crime victim. His daughter went missing and was murdered, and he has devoted himself to this calling ever since.
To Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, there are 13 felony charges hanging over Casey Anthony`s head, all fraud-related. Tell me in a nutshell what are the other charges she`s facing?
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, besides the lying to investigators and the other charges that are involved with Caylee, the rest are check fraud charges from stealing from her friend, Amy Huizenga. She stole checks when she borrowed Amy`s car and she cashed them all at various places, at Target, Bank of America, and so on, and cleaned out Amy`s bank account.
GRACE: We`re taking your calls live. Out to Stephanie in Washington. Hi, Stephanie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, is when did she start searching for chloroform in her computer? Can they find that date? Because I`m wondering if maybe the chloroform wasn`t for her mother.
GRACE: Interesting. What about it, Mark Williams? Do we know the date of those searches on her computer?
WILLIAMS: I don`t believe that information is yet to be released yet. But the computer did show that she did search for chloroform. But the exact date has not yet been released by authorities.
GRACE: And I mean, you`ve got to think it through, Mike Brooks. I`ve actually heard that theory espoused before that she wanted to somehow injure her mother. But the bottom line is, it`s Caylee who has gone missing. It`s either Caylee`s or Casey`s hair in the trunk, and the chloroform is in the trunk. So that negates any theory that she was out for her mom.
BROOKS: Right, unless, you know, under some theory that she was storing the chloroform in her trunk, which I find highly improbable. And you know, investigations are saying...
GRACE: But then how does Caylee fit into the trunk?
BROOKS: Well, because they believed that the hair that was...
GRACE: No, no, no. You say she accidentally -- she`s storing chloroform in the trunk and then somehow her daughter ends up in the truck? That doesn`t make sense.
BROOKS: No, no. I`m saying is unless she had it in the trunk and it spilled over. That`s the only reason there would be significant traces, as the FBI said, of chloroform in the trunk. But I -- I...
GRACE: So she means to kill somebody else, and then somehow Caylee goes missing? Is that, you know, reasonable in your mind?
BROOKS: No, absolutely not, Nancy. And you know -- and...
GRACE: OK. Thank you. You just restored my faith in you.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Back to the lines. Cheryl in Washington. Hi, Cheryl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, has Casey had a psychiatric evaluation?
GRACE: We do know that she had at least one in order for her to get out of jail and be on house arrest. We don`t know the results of that. It has not been published.
To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who first put up the bond for Casey Anthony, then came off that bond, bounty hunter out of California. He`s joining us tonight from San Antonio. Mr. Padilla, what do you make of Casey Anthony saying she`s always been too afraid to go search for her daughter? Now, look, don`t get me wrong. I`m not throwing a stone at anybody`s lifestyle. I don`t care. All I care about are felonies. But she didn`t look too afraid when she was on that stripper pole at Fusian lounge. She didn`t look scared to me.
PADILLA: She -- she has no fear. And the reason she has no fear is because she figures she`s in complete control of the whole situation. She right now knows that Tim Miller is within days of finding her daughter, Caylee`s, remains. She knows that. She can sense it. She can feel it.
Tim Miller has access to the same information that law enforcement and my partner, Rob, have. And that is, they know exactly where she was on those days that took place between the 16th and the 30th. And Tim Miller - - I`m telling you, he`s the best equipped, he`s the most knowledgeable, and he will find Caylee. I guarantee you that.
GRACE: Very quickly, everyone. We`ll be right back, and we are taking your calls live as the search resumes now for little Caylee.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." The search for a precious 2-year-old girl, vanishing northwest Detroit, Tagena Hussain, reported missing by mom`s live-in. They were allegedly at a local gas station. Police say he flunked the polygraph. The little girl last seen wearing a long-sleeved brown T-shirt, white cargo pants and gold sandals. Take a look. If you have information, please call Detroit police, 313-596-1240.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you call prior to today?
CASEY ANTHONY: Fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: No one can say or second guess what you`re going to do to protect your child when you fear for their safety.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that she`s safe. She knows who has her daughter. She knows her daughter`s safe.
CINDY ANTHONY: You know, we`ve got to be very mindful because anything we say, not even thinking about it, could be something that could put Caylee`s life in danger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Everyone, the search is now resuming for little Caylee, Texas Equusearch being brought in to search throughout the Orlando area. Here are some of the places that are focused for searches, the dumpster near the Amscot where the car was found, the airport area, where pings from the cell phone was -- there`s the tot family home, and a nearby landfill.
To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. Dr. Saunders, the mindset that it would take to, for instance, throw a body in water versus putting it in a dumpster -- explain the difference.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, in both instances, it`s obviously the callous disregard for the deceased. I think the notion of putting it in a landfill is pretty distasteful to most people because it`s garbage. It also shows no foresight because that could easily be found, as opposed to putting a body in water, where it`s going to decompose pretty fast.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This afternoon, Casey Anthony met with her home confinement manager to map out where she could go this week and when.
Casey is asking for more freedom. In court papers, she is asking permission to travel to unnamed places of interest to aid in the search for Caylee. A spokesman at the Orange County Jail said this kind of request is highly unusual, and would likely require Casey`s attorney to be with her at all times.
For his part, Jose Baez has argued since this July interview, that confining Casey stalled the search for Caylee.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S LAWYER: We are going to look in areas where the police didn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As early as this weekend, the head of Texas Equusearch tells us, he`d like to resume his group`s recovery efforts in and around Orlando. And Tim Miller says he would love to have Casey`s help.
Jose Baez would not comment, however, his spokesman tells us that Casey is not interested in helping Texas Equusearch because that would be equivalent to admitting that her daughter is dead.
The only searches she wants to participate in, according to the spokesman, are live sightings of Caylee. The efforts to bring the child home alive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Wouldn`t those searches require her to go out of state, Mark Williams, with WNDB, if she wants to follow up on -- alleged live sightings?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: It would require her to travel out of state, no doubt about that, Nancy. And you know there`s also been some sightings like in the North Georgia Mountains, up in White County. There`s been some alleged sightings at the Orlando International Airport.
As a matter of fact, Baez is trying to get a full manifest for one flight in particular. But if there was anything evidence of Caylee being there, we`d have the videotape, which we don`t have.
Also, there`s been sightings in Puerto Rico and of course, in Dallas/Fort Worth.
GRACE: Isn`t it true, Mike Brooks, former Fed with the FBI, that the police got the manifest from AirTran for a flight from Orlando to Atlanta. On that plane, there were two children and both of them were accounted for. They were not Caylee.
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: They were not Caylee, they worked with AirTran corporate security. Nothing fit in that description.
Also, in Atlanta here, with the Atlanta Police Department at Hartsfield Jackson International Airport, they reviewed video. Nothing came up.
GRACE: To Dr. Michael Bell, joining us from Miami, he`s the Palm Beach County chief medical examiner.
Dr. Bell, thank you for being with us. This brings to mind two recent cases, that of Lori Hacking, whose husband threw her body into a landfill. She was barely found. There was some bone and hair that was found to identify her, versus the discovery of lacey Peterson. She and her unborn child, Connor, had been thrown into San Francisco Bay. They washed ashore.
When a body is put in a landfill versus water, how does the decomposition of the body compare?
DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH CO. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, I`m not sure it`s necessarily going to be worse if it was in water versus landfill. Again, it`s more dependent upon the environmental temperature. And especially down here in Florida, the body is going to go bad fairly quickly.
GRACE: And with all the rain that has accumulated in Florida and also in a landfill, Doctor, you have the constant upheaval of adding new garbage, the garbage getting rotated around because of new garbage coming in, which further disassembles the body.
BELL: You`re absolutely correct. Things get a lot worse in a landfill. You get post mortem fractures and tears in the body.
GRACE: The body becomes completely disassembled. I want to go back out to our lawyers, Raymond Giudice and Mickey Sherman.
Ray, what would police have to do through to install GPS? A simple -- it`s about that big, it`s like a little.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s an ankle bracelet, Nancy. I mean it`s really not complicated.
GRACE: No, no, not on her, on her or her family`s car.
GIUDICE: Oh it`s even more simple. I mean that can be placed anywhere in the car. They have devices.
GRACE: But legally what do you have to go through? Like a search warrant?
GIUDICE: Oh for that -- oh, yes, they`d have to get a search -- I`m sorry. The mechanics of it are simple. A warrant is necessary and that`s not that complicated to get.
GRACE: To Mickey Sherman, defense attorney and author of "How Can You Defend Those People" -- Mickey, would it be any form of obstruction of justice if someone gave Casey Anthony, the tot mom, a secret cell phone to be using that was not tapped, in order to avoid the tap by police?
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": I don`t think so. Unless there is a specific order that she can only use certain phones. I mean, it`s more the negative. Unless she is forbidden to do it by a court order then she can basically do anything she wants that is within the law. And that`s not a problem.
GRACE: But what about, Mickey, the person that supplies her the phone that is specifically to avoid a police tap?
SHERMAN: Well, but it`s not to avoid a crime. It`s to avoid a police tap. I don`t know that that`s an obstruction of justice.
GIUDICE: I agree with Mickey.
GRACE: So Mike Brooks, what do you think of the theory that someone may provide her with a secret cell phone not listed in her name?
BROOKS: Well, they can find out, Nancy, because there are technologies now. They can say, OK, where is this certain signal coming from? Where is it going to? So they should be able to use a triangulation to find out if, in fact, if she is at her home or at Baez`s office, whether or not her cell phone is being used there that belongs to her, and in between.
GRACE: But wouldn`t they need to know that cell number?
BROOKS: There is -- without giving away -- there is technology to determine whether or not a signal is coming from inside that house that is not already -- that is not already tapped under court order.
GRACE: To Mark Smith, polygraph expert and VP of New Jersey Polygraphists --Mark, thank you for being with us. The defense has made an array of motions. One of them to get the history of polygraph machines that may or -- have been or may be used to give polygraph in this case.
Why do you need the machine`s history? Is it like a DUI machine?
MARK SMITH, POLYGRAPH EXPERT, VP OF NJ POLYGRAPHISTS: Well, you would hope that they`re using modern technology and computerized polygraph instead of the older style. There`s nothing wrong with the older ones, but you wouldn`t use a manual typewriter to type a letter today either.
And the computerized polygraph is light years ahead in technology. But there is no reason why that information shouldn`t be given to them, including.
GRACE: If they want it. But.
SMITH: The charts, questions.
GRACE: But, you know, another question -- back to the lawyers. To you, Ray Giudice, isn`t this moot at this juncture to be asking for all the evidence in a murder case when it`s just a child neglect case right now?
GIUDICE: Yes, that`s Baez`s point, he`s got to try to make a link between all of this forensic evidence.
GRACE: Got it.
GIUDICE: . and the polygraph examination to the case at bar. And I think he has got a good argument.
GRACE: Mickey Sherman, what is she doing at her defense attorney`s office all day long? I say she`s kicked back in a conference room, watching cable TV and yacking on the phone.
SHERMAN: If I was representing the Rolling Stones, I couldn`t spend that much time.
GRACE: All day, every day.
SHERMAN: I don`t understand that. She`s.
GRACE: . in her lawyer`s office. I think it`s a way just to get out of the house.
SHERMAN: That`s a lot of lifetime movies she`s going through. I mean.
GRACE: Man, you`re not kidding.
SHERMAN: You can only -- you can only debrief your client for so long. That`s a mystery to me. I think she`s just hiding.
GRACE: Nikki Pierce, what hours does she spend at her attorney`s office every day?
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Generally it`s Monday through Friday, 10:00 to 4:00, sometimes it`s longer on Friday, for instance, when she goes to court...
GRACE: Did you say 10:00 to 4:00?
PIERCE: I did say 10:00 to 4:00. That`s usually what it is.
GRACE: Holy molly. OK, she ought to get her own office.
To Brenda in Michigan, hi, Brenda.
BRENDA, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
BRENDA: My question is, if she wants to go out and search secretly, could that -- do you think that could be because she knows where Caylee is?
GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, we saw in the Scott Peterson case, Peterson kept circling back and looking out over the San Francisco Bay. I don`t think Casey Anthony would be that stupid.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Oh, yes. She figures she is in complete control, and I can tell you this. She knows where the body is. And my only concern would be that she would go out there and attempt to move it or do something stupid, because she is that idiotic about doing things.
She figures, I`m in control, I know where the body is at. A lot of other people know where the body is at, too, because between the 26th and the 28th, I`ll tell you when she got rid of the body was prior to the 27th when she called Amy and says, I got rid of the smell in the car.
The night of the 26th, she parked the car there, at Amscot. The morning of the 27th, she went and picked the car back up, went to her mom, she called JCPenny`s and there`s a couple of signals down there in that area where she spent about 15 minutes.
That`s where the body is going to be found, and I`m telling you, Tim Miller is going to get it done.
GRACE: Now are you somehow.
PADILLA: She`s concerned about that.
GRACE: . married to the idea that the remains were in that dumpster near Amscot cash -- check cash?
PADILLA: No, no. No, we`ve -- regurgitated and talked about that, and Rob has come up with the -- the pings, where the only answer, unless somebody picked her up at Amscot the morning of the 27th, she had to get back in her own car. It was not (INAUDIBLE) yet.
GRACE: Leonard, got it. Before we go to break, I have got to ask you, do you think that anyone, friend or family, would supply her with a secret cell phone?
PADILLA: Absolutely, yes. Yes.
GRACE: I do, too. What do you think about the notion that the family cars have GPS trackers on them?
PADILLA: Well, I don`t think they do right now. But there`s -- there`s really no need for it. They`re -- you know, they`re high-profile. And law enforcement can track them any time they want, physically, so I don`t think they have GPS trackers on them.
And as somebody said earlier, I do not believe the judge is going to let her get out and mess with evidence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEREK ARMSTRONG, AUTHOR OF "DREW PETERSON EXPOSED": This probably all comes across to a lot of audiences as you`re trying to blame her for running away or whatever.
DREW PETERSON, HUSBAND OF MISSING STACY PETERSON: Well, I look at it, Mike -- you know, you sit by yourself sometimes and you try to think, what did I do wrong? You know, could I have been a better husband, could I have done this, could I have done in? I gave her everything.
And my way of giving her love was providing for her. You know, like I say, I kept telling people, she wanted a boob job, she got a boob job. Braces, I got her braces.
ARMSTRONG: She got a boob job?
PETERSON: Lasik surgery, we got her lasik surgery. I don`t really mean to be arrogant, it`s just like I`d call it a dominance and being a police sergeant and been a policeman for 33 years, you have to develop that certain amount of callousness and -- I don`t even call it arrogant.
I mean I think I`m the last thing in the world to describe me as arrogant. You know, I mean, it`s just like Joel has really kept a lid on me from being funny, because if it wasn`t for him, I`d be doing all kinds of.
ARMSTRONG: Right.
PETERSON: . goofy stuff. The other day, Greta`s trying to have a thing and I`ve got the horns going to ruin their interview on the cars and stuff and that made all the presses, this crazy thing, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, it takes a certain type of humor to find the humor in a missing fourth wife and a dead third wife. But apparently Drew Peterson has been able to bridge that gap and find the humor in those circumstances.
Joining us tonight, Derek Armstrong, the author of "Drew Peterson Exposed." He is joining us exclusively tonight. Here is his book. He has hours of audiotapes of Drew Peterson.
And we learned that related to Stacy Peterson, Drew Peterson took a polygraph and flunked. He missed half the questions. He is deceptive on half the questions.
Is that true, Mr. Armstrong?
ARMSTRONG: Yes, it is, Nancy. He -- sorry.
GRACE: Go ahead.
ARMSTRONG: He was deceptive on thee answers that related directly to the timeline that I asked him to produce for the book.
GRACE: Were you disturbed when you realized he was lying?
ARMSTRONG: Yes. And that was the reason I asked him to take the polygraph before I would even consider interviewing him and writing the book.
GRACE: How did you meet Peterson to start with? Who contacted who?
ARMSTRONG: I contacted Selig, his publicist, when I heard he was shopping a book. I`m in Canada, so the offer I made to him was, I`ll write an impartial book. But he had had no luck getting an author interested, and I came along, I suppose, at the right time.
GRACE: What questions showed him to be deceptive related to Stacy Peterson?
ARMSTRONG: The first question related directly to the timeline, he said that the only time he saw Stacy on the morning of October 28th was when he came home from the police department. He said hello to her and then he went to sleep and never saw her again. That was a deceptive answer that he gave.
GRACE: And, sir -- with me, everyone, Derek Armstrong, the author of "Drew Peterson Exposed," he`s got hours of hours of audiotape with Peterson.
What is significant about the timeline that Peterson gave you?
ARMSTRONG: Well, I don`t think anyone has had a timeline from him before. I`m sure he gave one to the police. I`m not privy to that. But in the media, he hasn`t given a full timeline. I insisted on it for the book, and I used that to construct the polygraph questions.
GRACE: To Mark Smith, polygraph expert with New Jersey Polygraphists -- Mr. Smith, we went to your stories about people that can believe they can beat a polygraph. What would throw a polygraph off?
SMITH: Well, you can create movements and put artifacts, as we call them, on the charts. But that`s not going to clear you. That may make the charts unable to be scored and, you know, result indetermined, but it`s certainly not going to clear you.
GRACE: To our lawyers, Ray Giudice, Mickey Sherman -- everyone, we`re taking your calls.
Ray Giudice, all of these hours and hours of him on audiotape will come into evidence.
GIUDICE: Very likely. I just can`t believe his lawyer allowed him to do this in a not-for-profit situation, especially. This is a terrible tactical mistake.
GRACE: What about it, Sherman?
SHERMAN: Well, here`s my question for Mr. Armstrong. Is he sharing in the profits, yes or no?
GRACE: Is he, Derek Mr. Armstrong? Did he make any money off this book?
ARMSTRONG: No. Basically what.
GRACE: Go ahead.
ARMSTRONG: No, he`s getting no piece of it. His interest in this is to tell his story. My sense of it is that he likes celebrity. You know how he likes to be in the media. I think he wants a book. I think eventually he wants a movie. That`s what I think is at the bottom of his motivation.
GRACE: Did he ever show any remorse over the disappearance of his fourth wife or the death of his third wife?
ARMSTRONG: No.
GRACE: Now, he managed to pass polygraphy questions about the drowning death of his third wife. Who gave the polygraph?
ARMSTRONG: The polygraph examiner was Lee McCord of -- in Illinois. He has been licensed for 34 years. I checked his credentials. He`s a good polygraph examiner.
He didn`t have an explanation for why he passed that one. I tried to get to the root of it. He just said as far as I`m concerned it was conclusive and he passed it.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, what do you make of it?
BROOKS: You know, Nancy, I think polygraphs are a great investigative tool. I talk about them all the time, I`d use them in my -- cases I worked with when I was at the FBI. But, you know, they are investigative tools. They are not admissible in court, so you know, this guy, does he have a personality disorder, you know, is he really telling the truth?
Did he pass the one with Savio? Maybe he was -- you know, beat it or was deceptive and it didn`t come through, who knows? But the bottom line is, Nancy, with the grand jury and all the evidence they have with them, if they have a case, they should charge him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Straight to Dr. Patricia Saunders, when he was told that he flunked the polygraph, there was no response whatsoever.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It doesn`t surprise me, Nancy. You know sociopaths tend to have very good control over what little emotions they have. This guy is a better sociopath than Casey Anthony.
GRACE: To our producer, Ellie Jostad -- Ellie, is it true he`s actually waiting for a movie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE MANAGING EDITOR, COVERING STORY: Yes, exactly. He was asked by the "Chicago Tribune" what he thought about this book coming out and he said, oh, he is bored with it all. He was waiting for the movie and that he hopes Denzel Washington would play him.
GRACE: Mr. Armstrong -- Derek Armstrong, the author of "Drew Peterson Exposed," what was your impression of Drew Peterson?
ARMSTRONG: It`s a long analysis, but basically, he is all about himself. He`s -- he likes his own celebrity. He -- at times he shows emotions really is when he is worried about himself or his children, but certainly not when it related to anything else I asked him.
GRACE: I noticed in all of the pictures in your book, he is never smiling with his family, only when he is with his golfing buddies or his friends.
"Drew Peterson Exposed" by Derek Armstrong.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember, Marine First Lieutenant Matthew Vandergrift, 28, Littleton, Colorado, killed Iraq. A Texas A&M, honors grad, fulfilled his dream to follow his father`s footstep serving his country.
Awarded the Global War on Terrorism Service Medal, Sea Service Deployment Ribbon and National Defense Service Medal. Leaves behind parents John and Mary, brother, Barrett, serving the Air Force.
Matthew Vandergrift, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
