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State Will Seek Homicide Charges Against Missing Toddler`s Mother

Aired October 9, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 16 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. The state set to seek homicide charges against tot mom Casey Anthony, the case heading to a secret grand jury in days. Only question, will the charge be manslaughter or murder? Casey Anthony refusing to go before that grand jury, but tomorrow morning, she appears personally before a judge to plead her case to be released from house arrest, her defense even mocking the grand jury system. Grandparents Cindy and George and brother Lee likely witnesses against their own daughter and sister.

And we learn DNA will play a major role in their testimony. Also set to testify, investigators, friends, the live-in. We learn while the grandparents consent, investigators are forced to seek a search warrant for DNA for mom Casey`s brother, Lee.

And tonight, has motive for murder been revealed? Even without a body, investigators confident they have the evidence for a conviction, the state presenting hair, fluid, cadaver dog and chloroform evidence to the grand jury all connected to mom Casey`s car trunk. And tonight, Texas Equusearch on the ground again in Orlando to resume the search for the 3- year-old. Tonight, where is Caylee?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hate to break it to you, Casey Anthony, your time may be up. Local media reports an Orlando grand jury meets next week, and prosecutors are pushing for homicide charges.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Preparing for the worst, hoping for the best. That`s what defense attorney Jose Baez told the "Today" show. But Baez did not say whether he expects Casey Anthony to be indicted on homicide charges in the disappearance of her 3-year-old daughter, Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony waited a month before contacting authorities about her disappearance. Newly-released surveillance video isn`t helping Anthony. She can be seen shopping for lingerie and beer just weeks after her little girl disappeared. Investigators believe the little girl, Caylee, is dead. While her body hasn`t been found, lab tests turned up evidence of human decomposition in the trunk of her mother`s car.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See, I know and you know that everything you`ve told me is a lie, correct?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Pretty much everything that you`ve told me, including where Caylee is right now.

CASEY ANTHONY: That I still -- I don`t know where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do. And you...

CASEY ANTHONY: I absolutely do not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me -- let me...



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baez says it would be pointless for Anthony to testify at a grand jury, saying it`s her right not to testify and in a proceeding where it`s, quote, "a one-side affair." He says police gave up looking for Caylee a long time ago and blames the media for that.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything you`ve told me so far has been a lie. I`ve gone to every address that you`ve told me. I`ve talked to every name -- I`ve talked to every person that you`ve told me to talk to, or tried to. I found out all these names that you`ve given me are people that either never were here or have been fired here for a long time ago, OK? SO where we are right now is in a position that doesn`t look very good for you.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Florida investigators believe they can prove to a grand jury Casey Anthony killed her 3-year-old daughter Caylee.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and hasn`t returned her.

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They plan on piecing together inconsistencies from interviews she gave police, as well as presenting evidence from Anthony`s car. And they also plan on showing Anthony had been doing computer searches on chloroform. Investigators are hoping without a body, crime scene, confession or witness that the evidence they do have will be enough for a homicide charge. A grand jury meets next Tuesday.


GRACE: Straight out to Jessica D`Onofrio with WKMG, who broke the news that this case is headed to a secret grand jury, likely on Tuesday. Jessica, what more can you tell us?

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, Nancy, we do know that that is going happen on Tuesday. This case is going to go to a grand jury. They will hear it. It`ll be the last case that this grand jury hears before they dissolve.

I know that family is going to be subpoenaed. They will testify. We`re talking about George and Cindy Anthony, Casey`s parents, being called to testify in front of that grand jury. And the more and more I talk about it with people I know who are very close to this case, it`s looking more and more like they are going go for a murder case here instead of a manslaughter case. The idea being, why not go for all of it and then get manslaughter or something lesser later.

But you know, I think that people really need to know that this investigation -- they have hair samples, air samples. They have cadaver dogs alerting to the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car that there was a decomposing body there. And you know, they have a lot more evidence that we don`t know about, particularly involving motive here.

GRACE: To Mark Williams with WNDB Newsradio 1150. Significant, in the Florida jurisdiction, only certain and limited cases go to a grand jury. Explain.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSRADIO 1150: Well, what we know is that it`s only capital cases that go to the grand juries here in the state of Florida. That`s been the way it has proceeded for the past many years. And you know, any time -- anyplace from 2 to 20 or even more witnesses can be called in front of a grand jury. Now, right now on the list, there`s about 35 law enforcement officers ready to testify against Casey Anthony.

GRACE: Mark Williams, have you seen the list?

WILLIAMS: Not yet, but...

GRACE: Then how do you know there`s 35 people set to testify?

WILLIAMS: This is -- this is what I`m receiving off the street from a lot of my sources that I`ve contacted and talked to over the last day or so. And of course, as Jessica reported, George and Cindy Anthony are supposed to be there. Lee Anthony obviously will be called, as well. And they`ve also taken those DNA swabs both from George and Cindy, but they needed a search warrant to get a DNA swab from brother Lee, who didn`t want to give up his DNA initially.

GRACE: Standing outside the Anthony home, joining us from Orlando, our producer, Natisha Lance. Is it true, Natisha, have you been able to confirm, that Lee Anthony refused a polygraph?

OK. When we get Natisha back, we`ll be straight back with her.

What about it, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Well, from what we understand -- and this is from Leonard Padilla, who was -- who came to Orlando a couple of weeks ago. He`s the bounty hunter from Sacramento, California, who first bailed Casey Anthony out of jail. They were all sitting in the motor home, and Lee went inside the house. They were given the opportunity to do a lie detector test, a polygraph test, to clear everybody, the Anthonys plus Lee. And Lee went in there and told his parents not to do it, and he didn`t do it. So they couldn`t clear him.

GRACE: So I guess that is a no. He has -- he`s not taken a polygraph.


GRACE: He has refused the polygraph.

WILLIAMS: That`s right.

GRACE: You know what`s significant? Let`s unleash the lawyers. Everyone, we`re taking your calls live. Joining us tonight, felony prosecutor out of Atlanta Eleanor Dixon, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney Peter Odom out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, and trial lawyer Paul Batista (ph) and author of "Death`s Witness" joining us from New York.

Eleanor, explain why it is so significant that in the Florida jurisdiction, this case is going a grand jury. It tells me what charge they are seeking.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Exactly. And a capital charge would be one in which the state could seek the death penalty, such as murder, armed robbery in some situations, rape. Those type of cases are capital cases.

GRACE: Now, in the jurisdiction of Florida, apparently, indictments can be handed down, charges can be handed down by what is called an "information," which means the prosecutor him or herself simply writes out the charges and that goes to a jury.

Peter Odom, for murder, murder one in Florida, you have to go to a grand jury. That tells me that`s a charge they`re going seek against Casey Anthony.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And that tells us that the prosecutors must have something that we don`t know about yet because we don`t know anything about a body. We don`t know anything about a cause and manner of death. We don`t know anything about a crime scene. We don`t know anything about admissions of guilt or a weapon. Unless they have...

GRACE: Well, you know...

ODOM: ... those elements, they`re going to have a hard time.

GRACE: ... before you became a defense attorney, it`s my understanding, Peter Odom, that you were a veteran prosecutor. Have you never heard of prosecuting a case without a body? You want me to give a gold star, an A-plus to a killer that manages to conceal the body? They should just walk scot-free?

ODOM: You can get a prosecution without a body. Sometimes you can get a prosecution without a cause and manner of death. Sometimes you can get a prosecution without a crime scene. But without all these elements -- with all of these elements missing, Nancy, they have a very tough row to hoe, unless there`s something we just don`t know about.

GRACE: Well, hold on just a moment. To Leonard Padilla joining us out of Sacramento, California, the bounty hunter who first posted a half a million dollar bail on Anthony before coming off that bond. There`s quite a significant amount of circumstantial evidence such as what, Leonard Padilla?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, you`ve got the air samples in the trunk of the car. You`ve got Caylee`s DNA. Don`t be confused because people say, Well, you know, they`ve just got hair strands, but they got hair strands with the death band on it. They`ve got the DNA of Caylee in the trunk of that car.

And they`ve also got even statements by Casey herself stating about the odor in the car, except that she wants to blame it on squirrels. They`ve also got the pings which show exactly where she was from the 16th through the 30th. And they will find the body before they go to trial on the case itself. Maybe not before the grand jury, but before they go to the trial, they`ll find the body.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, what in your mind is the strongest evidence? Tonight, the defense team is pooh-poohing any evidence by the state. What do you think?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, I think the whole timeline that they have right now -- and Leonard has helped to fill that in as we go along. I think that, along with all the evidence they have that was in the trunk, and the chloroform -- and there`s a lot that they`re not telling us. I guarantee you, Nancy, as a former investigator, there is evidence they are not showing us right now, and that is going come into play in the grand jury, and that is what`s going on nail her to the cross.

GRACE: Just hours ago, the defense team publicly mocks the grand jury system, saying they don`t believe in it. Well, surprise! It`s been around since the 12th century. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s in her advantage to testify in a proceeding where it`s a one-sided affair, where only the prosecutor`s allowed, it`s a secret closed-door session where they present one side of the story. And it`s not something that I will expose my client or any other client that I have in the future to, to testify to, because I don`t believe in the grand jury proceeding.


GRACE: That is a tot mom`s defense the "Today" show just hours ago. And of course, although she`s not appearing before the grand jury, Casey Anthony will appear tomorrow morning to beg a judge to let her off house arrest. You are seeing shots of her on a shopping spree after her daughter goes missing.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tim Miller is going go ahead and review that search area where we were last time, look at the ground conditions, see if the water has receded and if the vegetation is going to allow us to get in and search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the 27th, after she goes back to Amscot and picks up her car, goes to the house, comes to this area, immediately thereafter, she calls Amy and she says, I got rid of the smell in the car, I scraped off the squirrels. You go to the transcripts and you`ll read that, and it`s minutes after she leaves that area and goes back up north to Amscot.


GRACE: Joining us tonight, the head of Texas Equusearch, Tim Miller, Equusearch back in Florida, set to resume the search for little Caylee. Tim, thank you for being with us. Tim, if the waters have subsided sufficiently, where are you going to search first and why?

TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Well, Nancy, at very best, we completed maybe 50 percent of what we set out to do before. And I`m the one that actually called that search. I was just really worried that...

GRACE: Where are you going search first and why?

MILLER: We`re going to be in the areas where there were cell phone activities, and that`s not a secret to anybody, Nancy.

GRACE: So around the Orlando International Airport or somewhere else?

MILLER: Around the airport. And there`s three cell towers that we`ve got a tremendous amount of interest in, so this is where we`re going to be.

GRACE: Tim, what resources do you plan to use, horses, by foot? What are you going do?

MILLER: You know, Nancy, the last day on the search, we had 1,186 volunteers out there, plus all the resources in the world, but conditions weren`t right. I predict there will be over 2,000 searchers. Nobody`s lost interest in this. In fact, people are more focused now. They want little Caylee found. There`s not one chance in this world Caylee`s alive. We`ll bring in every resource that we need...

GRACE: Tim...

MILLER: Caylee...

GRACE: Tim...

MILLER: ... will be found, honey.

GRACE: Tim, the pressure is on you. You know that because you`re the only one stepping up at this point, rounding up volunteers. Tim Miller is not only the head of Equusearch, he is also a crime victim. His daughter was murdered and her body discarded many, many years ago. And you know, Tim, that a case with a body is going to be much stronger than a case without a body.

MILLER: Nancy, you know what? Today in Houston, Texas -- a little over a year ago, we did a search for Tanisha Stewart (ph). We did not find that body. Today, Timothy Shepherd (ph) was convicted of murder. Yes, we want that body, but if that body`s not found, I trust this Orange County sheriff`s department. They are not going in front of the grand jury to put on a show, I will guarantee you that.

GRACE: I think you`re right, Tim Miller. I want to go -- oh, and while I`ve got Tim Miller -- Tim Miller rounds up volunteers. He works for free. Any donation or volunteer to help find this 3-year-old girl or her remains is needed so desperately. You can see the Web site,, to find out more. This could make or break the state`s case.

Back to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, he`s going to where the pings were around the cell tower. What were the significant dates? And what do you make of it?

BROOKS: Well, Nancy, you`ve got a number of significant dates. I mean, the whole timeline, you know, that we`ve talked about -- besides Tim -- and my hat`s off to Tim, by the way. I wish I`d him on a number of cases I`ve worked. But I can tell you, along with Tim, the custodian of records of AT&T is going to come in to that grand jury, and they`re going lay out the whole timeline of where -- the who, what, when, where, why and how of where she was from the time she said that Caylee went missing on June 9 all of the way to the time that she was arrested on July 16.

GRACE: Let`s go over those dates and times. Mark Williams with WNDB, Texas Equusearch is going back to search for little Caylee or her remains. They are going near the Orlando International Airport. It`s starting now. This could make or break the state`s case. Tell me about the cell phone activity by Casey Anthony near the airport. When was it?

WILLIAMS: It was on the day of June 16 and 17. She made a flurry of phone calls to both her mother, Cindy Anthony, and to her father, George Anthony. They did not pick up the phone. She also called her boyfriend at the time, Tony Rosaro -- Lazzaro (ph). And there was just kind of a dead end. And those flurry of phone calls, that`s where investigators believe that little Casey -- or little Caylee was killed just due to the fact that you had the phone calls. And the last time George Anthony saw his granddaughter alive was, like, on that Monday afternoon, the -- around noontime Monday on the 16th.

GRACE: Well, you know, Tim, I want to ask you another issue about motive. The state doesn`t have to prove motive, isn`t that correct, Paul Batista?

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s absolutely correct, Nancy. But they have to prove the case with more than fumes in a trunk and pings from a cell phone.

GRACE: Well put. But I take it the answer to my question is no, the state doesn`t have to prove motive.

But back to you, Mark Williams. A new motive allegedly has been revealed regarding Puerto Rico. And a lot of this is coming from mom Casey Anthony`s own text messages. Explain.

WILLIAMS: Well, those text messages started in early May. They were -- she and her friends were planning to go to Puerto Rico on a vacation early in July, around July 4 or so, and there was a flurry of text messages there. She talked about she needing emergency money. And she says, I can blow through that money real quick. So she was -- she was not a thrifty person and...

GRACE: Here you see her on text messages planning the Puerto Rican vacation.


GRACE: Keep going, Mark.

WILLIAMS: Well, the deal is she was planning it, along with Amy Huizenga and a couple of other folks, her circle of friends. But you know, here`s the thing. They went to Puerto Rico. She never went to Puerto Rico. And so there`s also been a published report that says since she didn`t go to Puerto Rico, she was hamstrung by little Caylee, and that`s when the dirty deed happened.

GRACE: And what`s so interesting -- to Jessica D`Onofrio with WKMG -- is while her friends go on to Puerto Rico, she continues texting them. This is after the time little Caylee goes missing.

D`ONOFRIO: That`s right. She is text messaging a lot of her friends when Caylee goes missing. But I can tell you those cell phone pings are really disturbing. If you look on that Monday, detectives -- I believe they believe that something happened to that child that Monday. She goes to a Blockbuster, then she goes and sleeps over at her boyfriend`s house that night. And they believe by the time she went to that Blockbuster that that child was likely dead.


MILLER: I held onto that little glimmer of hope that she was still alive out there, but I`ve lost all that hope. And you know what? We need to find her. And we`re not going to quit until Caylee`s found.



GRACE: Surveillance video of tot mom Casey Anthony. It`s not so much what she bought that is at issue tonight, as this case apparently heads to a grand jury on homicide charges. It`s the timing. Timing is crucial, these purchases made in the days and weeks following the alleged kidnapping by a nanny of her little girl. A grand jury will be allowed to see this video to assess for themselves her demeanor.

Straight back out to Jessica D`Onofrio with WKMG. Tell me again your assessment regarding where Equusearch is searching, the cell pings, and the theory that little Caylee was dead before mom Casey goes to Blockbuster.

D`ONOFRIO: Well, this is the idea of the cell phone pings. We have an investigative reporter here, Tony Pipitone. He`s been looking into all of the records, and he`s done some really interesting work. And what it shows is that on June 15 -- that`s when the grandparents last see Caylee -- June 16 is a Monday. And the idea is that something might have happened to the child that Monday.

And then by the time she goes to a Blockbuster in the evening at around 9:00 o`clock, I believe Tony said, and then after that, she goes to Tony Lazzaro`s house and sleeps over that night -- that by that time, the child -- something happened to the child that day because the next day, she makes this flurry of cell phone calls. And the day after that, she borrows that shovel. And it was likely that she was either picking up the child, possibly the dead body.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information that we`ve got back from the FBI lab indicating that -- you know, that she was in the trunk of that car or that she`s dead certainly is information we take very seriously.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I know what I know. Caylee is not dead. Their (INAUDIBLE) don`t mean anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do have returns that indicate human decomposition was present and located in the defendant`s vehicle. We had higher hopes of finding her alive and that hope has somewhat diminished.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: The person who is in the back of my granddaughter`s car is not my granddaughter..

C. ANTHONY: We continue to look for Caylee. She is not dead.

TIM MILLER, HEAD OF EQUUSEARCH, RESUMING SEARCH FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: It is never too late to do a continuous search. I truly believe that Caylee is out there. I would love to believe that she`s still alive, but I truly from my heart don`t believe that.

C. ANTHONY: We need to start looking for a little girl that`s walking and breathing that someone actually has her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have scientific evidence back from the lab, the FBI, and we have evidence that we have not yet made public that leads our investigators to believe that Caylee is deceased.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: And today the defense team publicly announces it`s the media`s fault that mom Casey Anthony has not been searching for her daughter. She plans to go to a judge tomorrow morning asking to be relieved of house arrest.

We are taking your calls, but first, take a listen to what the defense had to say just this morning.


JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: The reason for this motion is to allow her to contribute to the situation, and that includes her defense as well as the search for Caylee. So I don`t -- I don`t see -- you know, I know the media`s made quite a bit of this, but one should be able to communicate with their lawyer and if she`s accused of taking the police to a certain location I`d like to be able to go to that location with her to verify certain facts and certain -- certain things that surround the situation.

I don`t believe they`re trying this in the court of public opinion. I think it`s an obvious fact where they have systematically leaked one bit of bad information after another and all of them are just simply in the efforts to be able to try a case where they don`t have any evidence or a body so, therefore, they can already have tainted the jury pool which I think they`ve done a fair job in doing.


GRACE: Well, correct me if I`m wrong, but that`s not the prosecutor on "The Today Show" this morning tainting the jury pool. That`s the defense attorney, Jose Baez, this morning on "Today."

To Eleanor Dixon, talking about tainting the jury pool, I haven`t seen the prosecutors comment. Why?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Because prosecutors cannot ethically talk about the investigation or those details of the case. The only thing they can ethically say is after an indictment is what the indictment is for.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.


BAEZ: I don`t think it`s in her advantage to testify in a proceeding where it`s a one-sided affair where the only the prosecutor`s allowed. It`s a secret, closed door session where they present one side of the story and it`s not something that I will expose my client or any other client that I have in the future to testify to because I don`t believe in the grand jury proceeding.


GRACE: Don`t believe in the grand jury proceeding. That`s tot mom defense on NBC "Today Show."

To Peter Odom and Paul Batista -- Peter Odom, I am going to try to let him down easy. The grand jury system has been in effect since the 12th century.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It has. And, of course, the grand jury system, though, does not favor the defense. It`s a one-sided affair. Mr. Baez.

GRACE: Well, it`s a charging mechanism.

ODOM: Right.

GRACE: Why should it? Just like why should the state be part of the defense investigation? That`s improper. So why is he bellyaching about the grand jury system?

ODOM: Well, I really can`t speak for Mr. Baez. I disagree with him. I think the grand jury has its function, but, certainly, it is very one-sided and I would advise my client, exactly as he has, don`t testify in front of the grand jury, it`s a losing proposition.

GRACE: To Paul Batista -- Paul, the Florida grand jury only hears capital cases. That tells me the state is not going for a voluntary or involuntary manslaughter charge. They are going for murder one.

If you were the defense in this case what would you be doing right now?

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": Well, they certainly are going right for the throat. And I have to say I`d be doing exactly the same thing that Jose Baez is doing. The client doesn`t.

GRACE: You`d say I don`t believe in the grand jury system?

BATISTA: I certainly wouldn`t say that. The grand jury systems is.

GRACE: Well, then, you wouldn`t be doing exactly what he`s doing.

BATISTA: Not exactly the same thing, but in terms of what he`s doing, Nancy -- Casey has nothing to gain. She has rights and she has nothing to gain from appearing in front of the grand jury.

His description of what the grand jury does in terms of the one-sidedness, I`m sorry to say, Nancy, is entirely accurate. He`s taking the right course.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know why you`re all sorry to say it. The grand jury is a charging mechanism. There`s nothing wrong with it. That`s the way our constitution is set up.

The defense is the one that is protected by the constitution, not the prosecution. The state doesn`t have a bill of rights protecting it. Prosecutors don`t have that. The defendant does.

To Bethany Marshall, psycho analyst and author of "Dealbreakers." Bethany, I want you to take a look at this video of mom, Casey Anthony, on a shopping spree buying lingerie, nighties, bras, a case of beer, clothing sportswear, designer sunglasses, all during the time after her little girl goes missing.

Now this does not prove a murder, but what does it say to you, Dr. Bethany?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, it does speak to motive and what I think is that Casey was probably horribly resentful that Cindy and George were spending their excess resources towards little Caylee, horribly envious, and what do we do when we`re envious?

We want to destroy the object of our envy. That would be a motive for not handling the little girl over to the grandparents simply destroying her and not having her around.

Now this -- getting rid of the little girl initiates a crime spree. Amy Huizinga goes to Puerto Rico, right? Or on holiday. Casey wants to go, can`t go, keeps texting. What does she do? She takes Amy`s checkbook. She takes what`s not hers.

She`s a thief and the spending spree and the crime spree is a celebration of the fact that the little girl is out of the way. Now she can indulge in her own lifestyle and she can live without the little girl, she can do whatever she wants to do.

But it`s not just a homicide. It`s the -- or a possible homicide, it is the beginning of a crime spree.

GRACE: To Dr. Michael Bell, Palm Beach County chief medical examiner -- Dr. Bell, if chloroform were used on little Caylee, would there be evidence of that if her remains are discovered?

DR. MICHAEL BELL, PALM BEACH CO. CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: There may well be. You know, it would require specialized testing, but they may be able to detect it if it`s in high enough concentrations.

GRACE: What kind of testing?

BELL: Well, likely because the body will be decomposed, they`ll have to use probably brain matter or muscle rather than blood.

GRACE: You know, it`s hard to reconcile what you`re saying with these shots of little Caylee.

Out to the lines, Gloria in Florida. Hi, Gloria.

GLORIA, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. You`re the best. Thank you for doing what you do.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

GLORIA: Casey has a pattern of weaving a shred of truth into her lies, and I was wondering if Blanchard Park was searched where Casey said she last saw Caylee with so-called Zenaida and her sister in her car.

GRACE: To Jessica D`Onofrio, was Jay Blanchard Park searched?

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WKMG: You know, Nancy, I don`t have an answer to that. I am sure that the investigators, though, knowing them, I`m sure they`ve been there. They follow up on every lead they possibly can. So I can`t imagine.


D`ONOFRIO: . why they wouldn`t have been there.

GRACE: To Kelly in Arizona, hi, Kelly.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

KELLY: Well, first I want to say you`re a true hero and thank you for everything you do. And God bless you and your babies.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. Thank you very much.

KELLY: I just want to know, has the area already been searched where the lady saw someone matching Casey`s description coming out of the woods by the airport and if so, will it be searched again?

GRACE: Tim Miller, head of Texas Equusearch, do we know about that area where a -- an eyewitness claims to have seen -- mom Casey emerging from the woods? It`s near the Orlando airport.

MILLER: I`m real familiar with that area and again, with the conditions as they were.


MILLER: . when. Caylee disappeared the answer is completely. Blanchard Park has not been completely -- none of these areas have been and we`re just praying that conditions are there so we can go out and complete this search and bring this little girl home where she belongs.

GRACE: To Natisha Lance, standing by at the Anthony home, it`s my understanding that George and Cindy Anthony and Lee Anthony set to appear before that grand jury to testify about what?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, George Anthony will be appearing about the smell in the car and if you recall there were the issue with the gas cans. George Anthony was trying to get the gas cans from the trunk of Casey`s car and she quickly went to the trunk of the car, was able to on close it before George Anthony could actually see into the trunk.

Lee Anthony, on the other hand, he -- it`s for what he hasn`t done. It`s because he has not given DNA evidence to officers without them asking for it. Also, he refused to take a polygraph test.


G. ANTHONY: I said where`s Caylee? What`s going on? Oh she`s staying with Zany. And I said, we haven`t seen the girl in over a week, you know. How`s everything? We haven`t talked to her. It sure would be nice to hear her little voice. Dad, I don`t have time for it. I have 10 minutes, I have to get back to work.





MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: These checks came from her friend`s car, Amy Huizinga. Amy went on vacation to Puerto Rico, allowing Casey to use the car. And she allegedly took some checks. She`s passing this bad paper.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: If you look at her -- her best friend, Amy Huizinga. Now keep in mind, on July 15th, this is the day that Amy and her mom Cindy came over to her apartment where she was with Tony Lazzaro and confronted her.

That day in Amy Huizinga`s checking account the balance was $49.99. On her last statement, her best friend now on the 6/20, her balance was 2,125.47.

Great best friend.


GRACE: Straight out to a special guest joining us, Jessica D`Onofrio from WKMG. Jessica, 754 pings on her cell phone have been picked up by authorities. What is significant about just 3 percent of them?

D`ONOFRIO: Well, the thing that is so interesting about all that work that was done by one of our investigative reporters here is that the child is last seen on June 15th and on June 16th, it looks by these phone calls by where they were hitting cell phone towers, these pings were hitting cell phone towers, and when these calls were made that on the 16th is the date that something specifically happened to this child.

Then by the end of the evening around 9:00 some time, she goes to Blockbuster and she goes and sleeps over at her boyfriend`s house. You never see this child again. The next day you`ve got a flurry of cell phone calls and the day after that, she borrows a shovel and goes in the backyard, backs her car up and, you know, the theory is that she takes the child out of the backyard, puts it in the car and leaves.

GRACE: 754 times, her cell phone communicated from a cell tower, bouncing off 20 different cell towers.

Now, Mike Brooks, 97 percent of those 754 calls were from the area of her home, her parents` home, Fusion Nightclub.

BROOKS: Right.

GRACE: A friend`s house or boyfriend. The 3 percent that have captured the police attention are from where?

BROOKS: They`re from around that area we were talking about, Nancy. I mean we talked about this earlier. We had heard that there were a number of cell towers around her house between her house, between Tony Lazzaro`s house and this area around Orlando International Airport.

That is the area that they`ve been concentrating on.

GRACE: It is southwest of the family home.

BROOKS: Exactly.

GRACE: . at Lee Vista Boulevard and it is near where detectives are sending Equusearch volunteers. Then notably, the cell phone goes silent between 5:23 and 8:23 June 17, no text messages, no calls and no calls out.

And to you, Eleanor Dixon, this is a woman that lived on text messages. She`s up until 2:00, up at 5 a.m. texting various men, friends, you name it, and for those three hours, those hours in question, and at the location, near the airport, everything goes radio silent.

Behavioral evidence, Eleanor. What does it mean?

DIXON: Exactly, Nancy, it means she`s doing something and certainly, as a prosecutor in that case, I would argue that`s when she`s getting rid of the body in this case.

GRACE: And thank you to Joe in Florida who has called in, he served six months on a Dade County grand jury.

Eleanor, a grand jury, unlike a petite jury of 12, which hears your case ultimately, must only find a probable cause whether to indict, not that the case is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

DIXON: You`re exactly right, Nancy, and the grand jurors just don`t indict every case that comes down the pike. I`ve gotten plenty of no bills, in other words, we don`t go for it with the grand jury.

GRACE: Eleanor, I never got a no bill. When you said you got plenty of no bills, what do you mean by that?

DIXON: Well, I guess what I mean, Nancy, is not every one of my cases that I presented to the grand jury have gone forward. In other words.

GRACE: For an indictment.

DIXON: Right. For an indictment. In other words, grand jury is thoughtful, they said we don`t think there`s enough evidence and that`s it.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Sandy in Florida. Hi, Sandy.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

SANDY: When Casey left the house after the fight with her mom and took Caylee, where did she go that night?

GRACE: Interesting, Mark Williams, WMDB, where do you believe she went that evening?

WILLIAMS: Well, apparently, she went out on the road and more than likely stayed with one of her boyfriends that night. That`s the information that we`ve received and from that point on, who knows?

GRACE: To Vicki in Ohio, hi, Vicki.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear.

VICKI: Well, I just have a question. I was wondering if they never find Casey`s body -- or Caylee`s body, would Casey, A, be able to be indicted and B, would it be a situation like double jeopardy if they were to find her not guilty and then, Lord willing, found the little girl`s body?

GRACE: Vicki in Ohio, yes, she can be indicted without a body. It`s happened many, many times. In fact, we`ll put up a screen for you of high- profile cases that went forward and got convictions without a body.

Tim Miller from Equusearch just told you about one and what was the second part of your question, Vicki?

DIXON: Double jeopardy.

GRACE: Oh, yes. Double jeopardy. If she`s tried -- thanks, Eleanor. If she`s tried without a body, acquitted and then the body is discovered. No, she cannot be retried.

To Marie in New York, hi, Marie.


GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

MARIE: I love watching your children. I think they`re great.

GRACE: Thank you.

MARIE: A question. Why don`t they bring in a bunch of psychics and also have they done all her boyfriend`s lie detecting for them to see if any of them were lying?

GRACE: To Mark Williams, psychics have been brought in, even search. What can you tell me about lie detector tests on boyfriends?

WILLIAMS: Well, lie detector tests on boyfriends, obviously, have been to her ex-beaus, so to speak, and basically they were given to them by the sheriff`s office just to clear up some -- any time line questions, to make sure they were telling the truth.

And from what we understand, everybody`s telling the truth because even though they can`t use these in a courtroom, they can certainly put a time line together to show where Casey was on a particular given day in a particular given hour, Nancy.

GRACE: Right. To Peter Odom and Paul Batista -- Peter Odom, once an indictment is handed down, the state may be forced forward with a speedy trial demand. Please explain.

ODOM: Well, once an indictment is handed down, the clock begins ticking and it varies from state to state but they could be forced to trial within a very short period of time.

GRACE: Forced by who, Paul Batista?

BATISTA: Forced by the defendant, Nancy. She`s entitled to a fair and speedy trial and it may well be that she`ll ask for it here.

GRACE: And Paul and Peter, I could see the defense doing this because it would allow the state no more time to prepare their case. Right, Eleanor?

DIXON: That would be right but I bet the state has more they haven`t told the public about.



BAEZ: There`s obviously one glowing factor and that is that there is zero evidence in these document that Casey harmed Caylee in any way or -- or even remotely supports that accusation.


GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Paul Batista, Peter Odom, Eleanor Dixon, and psychoanalyst, Bethany Marshall.

First to you, Bethany, does he have on blinders? Because we`ve got a cadaver dog hitting -- that only hits on human remains, hair from a dead person in the car trunk. The mom lying through her teeth about seemingly innocuous things revolving around her daughter.

A host, an array of evidence.

MARSHALL: Well, at first I thought he drank the Casey Anthony Kool-Aid but actually it`s the best thing he can do is discredit the grand jury. He`s really grasping for straws at this point.

GRACE: Eleanor, shouldn`t he just remain silent? Shouldn`t he take the fifth, as well?

DIXON: Well, he probably should, Nancy, but again, he`s tainting the potential jury pool as well and it`s just typical defense blah blah blah.

GRACE: And we can expect the same at trial, right, Peter?

ODOM: Well, his best defense here, Nancy, is the most common defense, the most reliable defense, reasonable doubt. You probably should just stay silent.

GRACE: Paul?

BATISTA: Well, he`s got a right to defend his client, Nancy, and that`s precisely what the man is doing. He`s got a right to articulate these things.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, what do you expect to happen next week?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: I believe there`s going to be an indictment come down for murder and I don`t -- I don`t see Jose Baez changing his tactics. If he doesn`t do something, if Casey doesn`t come up with a body between now and then, there`s definitely going to be an indictment. And shortly thereafter Tim is going to find the body.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Navy Airman Apprentice Adrian Campos, 22, El Paso, Texas. Remembered as the life of the party. Devoted to others. Loved traveling, adventure. Dreamed of starting his own car repair shop.

Leaves behind family grieving, brother Carlos, sister Vanessa, widow Sylvia, baby girl Gabby.

Adrian Campos, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. As much as the world pauses tonight for Yom Kippur, we wish you blessings on this special evening.

I`ll see you tomorrow night 8 o`clock sharp -- sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.